Grover’s right: Bed-tax bill is all about passing the buck
Say what you will about Grover Norquist — and I know many of you have had plenty to say about him in the past, none of it good. But I don’t think there’s any question his organization, Americans for Tax Reform, is right about one particular element of its statement regarding Gov. Nathan Deal’s plan to have the Department of Community Health, rather than the Legislature, decide whether to continue imposing the hospital bed tax (or “hospital provider fee,” in the current Georgia political vernacular).
Here’s the statement, obtained by my AJC news-side colleagues. I’ve put the seemingly unobjectionable part in bold-face:
Gov. Deal’s decision to shift taxing authority from the legislature to the Department of Community Health does nothing to improve the hospital bed tax. Instead, it is a step in the wrong direction, attempting to absolve the governor and legislature of any potential blame for the looming tax increase.
The hospital bed tax remains a job-killing tax hike that will increase the cost of health care for Georgians and drive up the national debt. Thankfully, many Georgia legislators have taken a stand against the bed tax; Americans for Tax Reform applauds their resolve in the face of silly gimmicks on behalf of tax-and-spend special interests.
Now, you can believe the bed tax is needed, or you can believe it isn’t. You can applaud Norquist’s Taxpayer Protection Pledge or consider it the root of all evil in American politics. But I don’t know how you can disagree with Norquist that Georgia’s Republican lawmakers are trying to pass the buck by giving authority to levy the tax/fee to the DCH board.
If our legislators believe they have no option to balance the budget other than levying the bed tax, that the budget can no longer be cut and tax increases are necessary, then let them come out and say that and defend it — and stop talking about “cutting government” in all their election campaigns.
If they think it is right to make this tax, pitched three years ago as a temporary solution during an abnormally sharp recession and budget crunch, into a permanent tax — which is exactly what it would become once the Legislature no longer had to vote on it periodically — let them make that argument.
Otherwise, I think it would be appropriate for Norquist’s group to rate a vote or gubernatorial signature for the pass-the-buck bill as a vote or signature for a tax hike. And then Georgia’s voters can use that information to decide if their lawmakers did the right thing, which is all the ATR pledge is supposed to do anyway.
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
125 comments Add your comment
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
January 15th, 2013
12:21 pm
Hillbilly, that was back when folks were expected to repay their debts. That’s not the case today, if the mortgage market and student loan market are any indication.
md
January 15th, 2013
12:22 pm
I think Bob is mixing up his facts on medicaid. Obamacare comes into play on the “expansion” of medicaid while the laws on the books apply to those already on it. 2 totally different discussions.
Politico
January 15th, 2013
12:23 pm
md
And if you believe that is the only reasoning that Perdue and now Deal are into this “fee” vs “tax” game, that certainly is your right to have that opinion
Buzzy
January 15th, 2013
12:25 pm
Grover is irrelevant. The root of our problem is that Gov. Deal screwed GA out of federal money under the Affordable Care Act. As usual the Republicans want to act like a group of immature high school boys instead of facing up to reality: the Affordable Care Act is the law, and GA would be better off if it took advantage of it’s beneficial provisions. If some hospitals in Georgia go broke, it will be the Republicans who have to answer for it.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 15th, 2013
12:31 pm
Politico, I agree that semantics seem to be what is most important for politicians these days. They try to frame things that people do not like, in ways that sounds more pleasing. Like “investments” instead of spending, but if they truly are “fees”, some are just taxes rapped in a new name, they are more acceptable for some of us.
I have no problem with a boat ramp fee to maintain boat ramps on government lakes. I own no boat and do not use ramps, so that seems fair to me. A fee on disposing tires is fair, if you don’t own a car, you don’t have to pay. A fee to use a state park seems fair to me, maybe if enough revenue is not raised, we can mothball that park. We have to cut back and make tough decisions, and fees allow us to make the decision, rather than the politicians, is this something worthwhile to invest our money in.
Aynie Sue
January 15th, 2013
12:34 pm
Let’s see now … who is it that wants spending cuts but won’t specify the cuts that will satisfy them? Who wants to shift the burden of deciding specific spending cuts to the Administration or to an unelected government agency? Who states their demands in percentages rather than identify specific cuts that will incur the wrath of the public?
The Republican members of the Congress and the Georgia Legislature, of course.
Politico
January 15th, 2013
12:36 pm
“some are just taxes rapped in a new name, they are more acceptable for some of us.”
Thanks for the acknowledgment and also your take on the issue. Some do not wish to accept this notion because that would go against their preconceived notions of those currently running the state. However, whether someone accepts or understands it doesn’t change the facts of what they are doing.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
January 15th, 2013
12:38 pm
Aynie: You certainly can’t accuse Obozo of wanting to cut spending.
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
12:38 pm
Dusty @ 10:41: It is a tax on hospitals. You do not need to worry about how many beds you have at your house.
The mechanism, if I understand it correctly, works like this: The state taxes hospitals at 1.45 percent of their net patient revenue (i.e. those with more beds will end up paying more than those with fewer — thus the term “bed tax”). It spends the proceeds on Medicaid, allowing the state to qualify for more federal matching funds. The money (both state and federal) goes back to hospitals that treat more Medicaid patients — so some hospitals receive more money than they pay in tax, and others pay more in tax than they get back. It depends on how much of their service is provided to Medicaid patients. Therefore, the hospitals that treat more Medicaid patients tend to support it, and those that treat fewer tend to oppose it.
Politico
January 15th, 2013
12:41 pm
Kyle @ 12:38
Do you know if their are stats that show this information by hospital?
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 15th, 2013
12:42 pm
Politico
You have to acknowledge as well that the Dems do not like fees, because they hinder efforts to redistribute wealth.
Politico
January 15th, 2013
12:44 pm
Rafe
Wasn’t defending any Democrat. If you noticed I called out Murphy and his boys as being the same as what is going on today with one party rule in the state.
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
12:46 pm
And it should go without saying that, as with virtually all business taxes, the ultimate payers of the tax will be consumers, employees or shareholders, depending on who is easiest to pass the cost to.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 15th, 2013
12:46 pm
Kyle, Dusty can certainly speak for herself, but I don’t think you got what she was saying. Politicians love to tax things and if they can tax the beds in the hospital in an effort to raise money to help with medicaid, they could tax beds in a house to provide money for Sec 8 housing. You have a 6 bedroom house, you can afford to help someone have a one bedroom apt. I think this was what she was saying.
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
12:47 pm
There goes Cheesy @ 10:52 with his SOP: Smear the messenger.
Cheesy, do you disagree that Grover is right about that one point? That would, you know, put you on the side of Republicans…
I can just imagine your precious little head short-circuiting right now.
Dusty
January 15th, 2013
12:48 pm
Hillbilly
I surely do agree with your Grandpa. Nobody in debt is free.
About the legislature and the hospital bed tax, I looked up the web site of the GA Dept. of Public Health. They are definitely in charge of everything medical from state sources. I think that is why Deal turned over this hospital bed tax bill to them. But they can only recommend as far as I know. I assume that it will come back to the legislature and governor as a recommendation.
I don’t see that Govl. Deal went wrong in this case. He wants a “health” opinion on a “health” tax .decision.
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
12:51 pm
Logical @ 10:54: Um, if I were writing an article in praise of Norquist, I would probably not raise the possibility that he’s wrong about everything else. And if you think mentioning Grover’s statement is going to absolve me of any “heat” I might take, you probably also believe this is a stand-up move by the Legislature. Not so logical today, dude.
Politico
January 15th, 2013
12:54 pm
Dusty
Is Deal looking for an opinion or has he already taken action?
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
12:55 pm
Buzzy @ 12:25: How would the Obamacare expansion of Medicaid made matters better for the state budget? The whole point of this bed-tax maneuver is that we can’t afford the Medicaid we already provide. So, the solution is … increase the amount we have to pay by a few hundred million dollars a year more?
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
12:56 pm
Politico @ 12:41: I think the AJC has reported those stats before, but I don’t have a link handy.
md
January 15th, 2013
12:56 pm
“And if you believe that is the only reasoning that Perdue and now Deal are into this “fee” vs “tax” game, that certainly is your right to have that opinion”
Been around too long to not know how the game is played and semantics is the name of the game. I was merely stating a preference for fees as they apply to the user of said good or service which to me is the “fair” way to go about it.
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
12:57 pm
Rafe @ 12:46: Maybe so.
Dusty
January 15th, 2013
12:58 pm
Thank you, KYLE, for the infomation.
Thank you, RAFE You are correct. I surely do not think the state is going ;to tax beds in homes. You knew exactly what I meant. I’m glad you made it clearer.
md
January 15th, 2013
1:00 pm
” The root of our problem is that Gov. Deal screwed GA out of federal money under the Affordable Care Act. As usual the Republicans want to act like a group of immature high school boys instead of facing up to reality: the Affordable Care Act is the law, and GA would be better off if it took advantage of it’s beneficial provisions.”
Now go do a real analysis and tell us how much we save or don’t save long term…….if the feds give the state $3 per patient and it costs the state $5 per patient, then long term either taxes go up or services get cut in a balanced budget state.
Dusty
January 15th, 2013
1:11 pm
Politico,
As far as I know, Deal “turned over the matter” to the Department of Community Health (or Public Health). I did not read “passed” or “presented”. I thought it was for more information in relation to hospitals and their expenses including taxes.
Why have this department if it is not used for health issues?
JamVet
January 15th, 2013
1:14 pm
And it should go without saying that, as with virtually all individual and personal taxes, the ultimate payers of the tax will be other retailers, providers of services and products and by proxy their shareholders, depending on who is easiest to pass the cost to.
So as long as were are going with the absurd, let’s make the answer as simple as we can.
Eliminate ALL taxes on everybody and everything and live happily ever after in Contopia!
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
1:15 pm
Dusty @ 1:11: Right now, the Legislature has to approve the tax; it is up for renewal this year. Because legislators come under a lot of pressure not to be seen raising taxes, Deal has proposed that the Legislature vote to turn this particular tax over to the DCH. It has nothing to do with who has more expertise about what, but rather who is least likely to face political heat for approving a tax.
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
1:16 pm
JamVet @ 1:14: You certainly have a gift for absurdity.
md
January 15th, 2013
1:17 pm
“And it should go without saying that, as with virtually all individual and personal taxes, the ultimate payers of the tax will be other retailers, providers of services and products and by proxy their shareholders, depending on who is easiest to pass the cost to.”
Can you name me one retailer that pays for personal taxes, I’m scratching my head on that one. And I need to go visit that retailer…….
Politico
January 15th, 2013
1:19 pm
Dusty
Unless I am reading Kyle’s article incorrectly, Deal made a decision. He is not seeking an “opinion” as you stated.
Yes, one can soundly argue that the “fee (tax)” should be under the DCH, however that is a different issue then seeking “opinion” vs making a decision to avoid having the legislature voting on a tax.
Which goes to my whole point about the “fee” issue that has become common over the last several years.
While certain “fees” surely need to be just that, others are no more than veiled “taxes” that the “core base” overall will accept vs a new tax. It is nothing more than a semantics game.
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
1:24 pm
Politico @ 1:19: The Legislature has to pass Deal’s proposal to do this. So he’s not seeking an “opinion,” but he does need their approval.
JamVet
January 15th, 2013
1:29 pm
Just making fun of your corporatocracy nonsense, Kyle!
And other made up out of thin air GOP claptrap.
To wit, here are three of the latest counterfeit conservative theories that I’ve read on AJC forums recently.
Christianity is not a religion.
America is not a democracy.
And corporations do not pay taxes.
Yep, absurd, indeed…
Politico
January 15th, 2013
1:30 pm
Kyle
Thanks for the clarification. What do you think the chances are that the Legislature will not vote to call this a “fee” under the umbrella of the DCH vs having to call it a tax increase?
In my opinion it is a “semantics” game to get the same result, but still be able to tell the constituency that you didn’t raise taxes. I agree with you that Grover is correct in regards to the game that is being played.
Perdue did the same on several items.
It is a pansy politician’s (no matter the party) way have one’s calk and eat it too.
Just amazing how many buy into it.
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
1:31 pm
JamVet @ 1:29: OK, so on whom does the burden of business taxes rest if not on customers, workers or owners?
Hillbilly D
January 15th, 2013
1:31 pm
It has nothing to do with who has more expertise about what, but rather who is least likely to face political heat for approving a tax.
That’s the whole crux of the matter, in one sentence.
Logical Dude
January 15th, 2013
1:32 pm
Hi Kyle: And if you think mentioning Grover’s statement is going to absolve me of any “heat” I might take, you probably also believe this is a stand-up move by the Legislature
Well, I hoped my main point you heard was that this article would have been Much More Effective if you just had written the article criticizing those responsible for these types of taxes. Using Grover as a support mechanism, and even using his name in the title, dilutes the message that you intended to make. Unless the main point of the article was ABOUT Norquist. (then I’ll admit, I read the article wrong)
Sure, his group is correct in this case, as I’m sure they are correct about many things. But they lose credibility when they try to hold a “pledge” over an oath of office.
JamVet
January 15th, 2013
1:33 pm
Kyle, the question is, how is that one bit different than the taxes levied on individuals?
Georgia, The " New Mississippi "
January 15th, 2013
1:36 pm
Kyle , after reading your article it is clear you are Pope Grover follower. This man does not live in Georgia and is not eligible to vote in Georgia. Pays no taxes in Georgia. Has not been elected to any national office by American voters. Yet , Georgia GOP Johnny Rebs fear him and sign pledges to represent his interests at the expense of the voters in their districts. I know the Georgia GOP is not loaded with intellectual heavy weights……….. But damn, do you guys possess any basic common sense ???
md
January 15th, 2013
1:42 pm
“And corporations do not pay taxes.”
Corporations pay an “expense” called “taxes”, along with other expenses called things light “power bill”, and “rent” and a host of other expenses. These expenses are then factored into the “cost of goods sold”, which is then used to set the price point for goods and services.
And who buys the goods and services?
Taxes levied on individuals are not factored into an individuals “cost of life” and passed on to another (exception may apply to ladies of the night)
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
1:42 pm
New Miss @ 1:36: “Georgia GOP Johnny Rebs fear him and sign pledges to represent his interests at the expense of the voters in their districts.”
You have it exactly backwards. Signers of the pledge fear Grover because it carries weight with their voters. No one makes them sign it. They sign it to put an anti-tax feather in their cap come election-time … presumably because it helps them get elected … presumably because the voters believe low taxation is in their interests.
Kyle Wingfield
January 15th, 2013
1:45 pm
JamVet @ 1:33: The point is that all taxes wind up being on individuals. The ones levied directly on individuals are at least transparent about it. The rest simply allow some people to believe they’re sticking it to “the man,” or something. But usually, it just means their paychecks are smaller and the goods and services they buy are more expensive.
Cutty
January 15th, 2013
1:49 pm
Since most here hate dems so much and are so enthralled w the repub theology of fees, have fun at the toll plaza when you’re heading north on 400 this afternoon. Lemmings.
Bill Robert
January 15th, 2013
1:55 pm
Who needs Sherman when Georgian voters and politicians do such a good job burning down this state all on their own.
Georgia, The " New Mississippi "
January 15th, 2013
1:57 pm
Kyle, under 10 plus years of GOP Johnny Reb rule at the State Capitol………Georgia has all but unofficially seceded from the Union. We have hit rock bottom and have started to dig sideways.
md
January 15th, 2013
1:59 pm
Example:
Expenses
Salaries 68,250
Utilities 5,800
Rent 23,000
Office Supplies 2,250
Insurance 3,900
Advertising 8,650
Telephone 2,700
Travel and Entertainment 2,550
Dues & Subscriptions 1,100
Interest Paid 2,140
Repairs & Maintenance 1,250
Taxes & Licenses 11,700
Total Expenses 133,290
All “costs” that will be factored into the price of goods. If they are not factored into the price of goods then that company will go bye bye before too long.
Corporations do not pay taxes, consumers do.
Junior Samples
January 15th, 2013
2:09 pm
Kyle, I agree.
They’ve cut until they can cut no more.
Now they need to increase revenue (taxes), but just can’t bring it upon themselves to do it.
Enter stage left, the DHC.
Buck passed.
Cletus
January 15th, 2013
2:10 pm
We get so worked up about the taxes we can see, like this bed tax. Hardly anyone talks about the ones we mostly don’t see.
You want a real eye-opener, check out IRS Publication 510 for a look-see at the many things that are covered by federal excise tax. And that doesn’t include state excise taxes.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 15th, 2013
2:11 pm
Well, if we haven’t just turned jamvet’s world all topsy turvy – all these years thinking his beloved government was stickin it to the Man and now he finds out his beloved government’s been stickin it to…………………….him.
Priceless.
JDW
January 15th, 2013
2:16 pm
@Kyle…”Signers of the pledge fear Grover because it carries weight with their voters.”
Well there is also the little matter of the millions and millions and millions of dollars Grover will spend to make sure that the voters…particularly those primary voters Republicans fear so much…just happen to have the viewing pleasure of a smear campaign foisted upon anyone with the temerity to honor their inauguration oath rather than “The Pledge”.
Dusty
January 15th, 2013
2:23 pm
Well, I guess I still have a little faith in the integrity of our state government. It is so easy to condemn them when we are not in their “shoes” making difficult decisions in difficult times.
Governor Deal asked for info from a state department and he is condemned. I suppose he should stand before the legislature and say “I have decided you should do this.”. NO recommenations. No referenes. Just “Here it is.”
Deal is an intelligent man and knows better. No matter what you think about Gov. Deal, he has never been convicted of anything. Nothing. But you judge a man guilty before there is even a crime or what others have done. Shame!
Anyway, no one is fooled about taxes. (as Kyle said @1:45).. The word TAX is synonymous with out of pocket expense for the individual. When it becomes unfair, we complain. But let us be sure we complain about the right people, whether they be the tax writers or the spenders that squander and demand more.
———
No more “preachin” from me. A’bientot.. ..