Another Southern state not named Georgia looks to ditch the income tax
Another day, another Republican governor making a bold proposal on an issue Georgia lawmakers have been wrestling with. From the Times-Picayune in New Orleans:
Gov. Bobby Jindal is proposing to eliminate Louisiana’s income and corporate taxes and pay for those cuts with increased sales taxes, the governor’s office confirmed Thursday. The governor’s office has not yet provided the details of the plan.
“The bottom line is that for too long, Louisiana’s workers and small businesses have suffered from having a state tax structure that is too complex and that holds back economic prosperity,” Jindal said in a statement released by his office. “It’s time to change that so people can keep more of their own money and foster an environment where businesses want to invest and create good-paying jobs.”
Jindal said the plan would be revenue-neutral and that the goal would be to keep sales taxes “as low and flat as possible.”
Another Louisiana newspaper, the Monroe News-Star, reports the state’s sales tax could rise as high as 7 percent from its current level of 4 percent. Louisiana has three income-tax brackets, with married couples paying 2 percent on income up to $25,000, 4 percent between $25,000 and $100,000, and 6 percent on income above that.
Georgia — where couples pay 6 percent on any income above just $10,000 — has taken tentative steps down this road before, although never to the point of eliminating the income tax completely. Former Speaker Glenn Richardson in 2007 proposed repealing all ad valorem taxes and broadening the sales tax to cover goods and services (the latter are not taxed today) at the 4 percent rate — his so-called GREAT Plan. But that only included lowering the top income-tax rate from 6 percent to 4 percent, not zero. More recently, a commission appointed in 2010 to study comprehensive tax reform came back with a plan to lower the income-tax rate to no higher than 4 percent and as low as 3 percent, which probably would be low enough to boost Georgia’s competitiveness while keeping our tax base diversified (income, sales, property, etc.).
As you may recall, the latter plan was stalled in the Legislature in 2011 and last year resulted in a tax bill that was advertised as “comprehensive” but in fact merely tweaked some corporate tax breaks and granted a number of long-time wishes of certain industries (e.g., auto dealers). I’ve heard no one suggest that tax reform will come anywhere near this year’s legislative session agenda.
Meanwhile, Louisiana is pressing forward in the direction taken by Florida, Tennessee and Texas — the kind of states with which Georgia competes for jobs and workers. In North Carolina, another of our peer states, new Gov. Pat McCrory has also pledged to pursue tax changes that include lower income-tax rates for individuals and businesses.
All of which would seem to leave Georgia falling behind.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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217 comments Add your comment
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 11th, 2013
10:16 am
Makes good common sense and would attract business and jobs so, of course, the libs will be against it.
MANGLER
January 11th, 2013
10:25 am
It’s one thing to have taxes that pay for services which make life in the State better. However, having lived in other Southern States not named Georgia, as well as the one that is named Georgia, I don’t really notice where that extra 6% goes to. It simply costs a little more to live and work here than it would in Florida, but the net benefit to me, the tax payer, isn’t apparent.
That being said, an income tax is a more stable revenue source than strictly sales taxes. Those ebb and flow with the economic winds much more so than people’s incomes. Florida’s tourism is unquestionably a larger industry than Georgia’s, and when the economy hiccups, Florida’s sales tax receipts go for a ride on Space Mountain.
Cutty
January 11th, 2013
10:25 am
Doesn’t matter if democrats are against it. So-called fiscal conservatives have close to a supermajority. You CONservatives own the state and whatever sad outcomes come from your ignorant policies. Any microCHIP implementations lately?
TiredOfIt
January 11th, 2013
10:28 am
Fables tells fables.
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
10:32 am
Well since a vast number of these corporations cannot even run their businesses without endless government assistance, we might as well just end the pretense and let the Welfare Kings go ahead and pay absolutely nothing in to we the people to operate in the greatest country on earth.
An Observer
January 11th, 2013
10:37 am
Maybe a 5% flat tax instead of a graduated tax that peaks quickly at 6% makes more sense.
Steve Dunbar
January 11th, 2013
10:40 am
Let’s see. We exempt the rich from paying state income taxes and we increase the state sales tax, which places an even higher tax burden on the poor and lower income resident.
I may be wrong, but I think Georgia has more poor and lower income citizens than rich citizens.
So this would benefit the minority at the expense of the majority.
Perfect Republican thinking.
cj
January 11th, 2013
10:40 am
Seems to work in Tennessee.
indigo
January 11th, 2013
10:42 am
Would it be a good idea to eleminate the IRS and just have a national sales tax?
What do you think?
Steve
January 11th, 2013
11:01 am
You take away the state income tax and we’ll be just hit somewhere else. In NH, they just raise the property taxes.
JDW
January 11th, 2013
11:06 am
Thing is it is not a question of taxes…it is a question of who pays. If you compare the states Kyle mentions to Georgia you find that each collects more revenue and spends more per capita than Georgia.
State Revenue Per Capita 2010
Louisiana…$6024
Florida…$3805
Tennessee…$4030
Texas …$3992
Georgia…$3774
http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-revenues-capita-fiscal-year-2010
One thing is for sure, as is the case with most things over the last 10 years or so Georgia is lagging.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
11:09 am
JDW @ 11:06: So does that mean you think we should follow the lead of FL, TN and TX and go to zero income tax?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
11:12 am
Another day, another Conservative moanin’ about having to pay the taxes that make the infrastructure work.
Yawn. Just pay your taxes Cons.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
11:14 am
Do we need to compare the tourism draw of NO/Louisiana to the tourism draw of ATL/Georgia?
Is it even close?
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
11:14 am
Another day, another comment by Finn that demonstrates he didn’t read the OP. Yawn.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
11:15 am
Paying our bills through income tax is considered “falling behind” only by conservatives with no concept of the long view.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 11th, 2013
11:18 am
Well, since the participation rate in work continues to decline and more people are working in non traditional jobs, where they get paid in cash, less and less folks are paying income taxes. There is so much underground economic activity that is going untaxed, we need to change along with the times.
I think we should go to a higher sales tax rate and drop the income tax in an effort to get to some of this underground activity. Maybe to make it more palatable to the Dems, drop sales taxes on drugs and all grocery purchases. Have to have something like a 10% rate to do this and make it revenue neutral.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
11:21 am
To boil these plans down, the goal is to shift the tax burden off of the high-end earners and on to the middle and lower classes. Wake up, people.
A guy making $100,000 a year pays the exact same price for a Big mac as the guy making $20,000 a year. And both of them can – logically – not consume more than 1 per meal. So, they, in effect, are paying equal total taxes.
The wealthy can’t spend enough in consumption to make up for the difference in the tax revenue that would be lost through ditching income taxes.
DW
January 11th, 2013
11:22 am
Get off the Dem / Rep kick. Have lived in TN, TX, & GA – Agree with other poster that said they couldn’t see where the income tax money goes. Services appear to the be the same or worse. The question Georgians should ask themselves is if FL, TX, TN & others can do without income tax and survive – then where is the income tax money going? True – sales tax is a consumption tax, but at least I have some control over that. Taxes should be looked at as a whole – income, sales, & property to make sure we are not paying more and getting less than other frugal, budget minded states.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 11th, 2013
11:22 am
Any one who has driven I-35 from Dallas to San Antonio knows that the recession has not touched Texas. Whatever they are doing, we need to get on board.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
11:23 am
Remember, Florida’s income tax was ended because the sales tax could rely on all those tourism dollars flowing into the state.
Not enough people want to come see our , what, our crappy aquarium (even Chattanooga’s aquarium runs circles around the GA aquarium.)
JDW
January 11th, 2013
11:25 am
@Kyle…I think we should take their lead and attempt to fund our programs at a sensible level. I think the right way (state and federal level) is a combination of sales/VAT with an exemption for lower income levels, an income tax that kicks in around the 60th percentile, property taxes and use fees. I would prefer to see very limited deduction or loopholes in any system.
From the numbers standpoint I found some more recent data and since 2010 the gap has widened significantly. The data below is estimated 2013 for state…local…total revenue.
FL…$3,466.00…$3,325.00 …$6,791.00
TN…$3,436.00 …$3,906.00…$7,342.00
TX…$3,780.00 …$3,562.00 …$7,342.00
LA…$4,425.00…$3,185.00 …$7,610.00
GA…$3,287.00…$2,932.00…$6,219.00
We do indeed continue to fall behind but it is not because our taxes are too high relative to our peers…it is because we are not investing in our future.
Road Scholar
January 11th, 2013
11:25 am
Why doesn’t Georgia just tax “stupid”? We’d be rich!
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 11th, 2013
11:26 am
To boil these plans down, the goal is to shift the tax burden off of the high-end earners and on to the middle and lower classes. Wake up, people.
Yep, Dem plan, keep them poor and take care of them. Why not improve economic conditions that will allow them to find work and improve their lot in life.
JDW
January 11th, 2013
11:26 am
oops left out corporate taxes…btw those other states are comparable there too with the exception of TX which taxes recepits rather than income so it is not an apples to apples
Road Scholar
January 11th, 2013
11:26 am
Rafe: It’s called oil if you don’t know we are addicted to it!
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
11:28 am
Finn @ 11:14: No, it isn’t even close. As of 2009, the most recent data available from the Census Bureau, Georgia brought in $17.6B in travel expenditures to rank ninth; Louisiana brought in $8.7B to rank 24th.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
11:28 am
Want to try again, Finn?
Tax Reform Needed in GA
January 11th, 2013
11:31 am
“Seems to work in Tennessee.: – CJ
Doesn’t Tennessee have a 10% sales tax ?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
11:31 am
Want to try again, Finn?
I’ve burned my 15 minutes of fame here, pal. Now, back to saving the world from Bane and The Joker.
Don't Tread
January 11th, 2013
11:31 am
“The wealthy can’t spend enough in consumption to make up for the difference in the tax revenue…”
Sure they can, but they don’t. You don’t become “wealthy” by spending all your money. Of course, people like you don’t want others to become “wealthy” at all and want the government to take their money away in the name of “equality” (of outcome), “social justice”, and all that.
It’s amazing that Democrats can solve all problems by taking away somebody else’s money or individual rights.
Sean Smith
January 11th, 2013
11:36 am
The recession hasn’t touched Texas for a number of reasons. First they pump money out of the ground that dramatically helps their economy. Second they have strong banking regulations (Surprising for a red state) that prevented the mortgage mess that happened in other places. Third the federal government spends more in texas than it gets in Taxes.
But Texas isnt a paradise, lots of homeless people and poorly insured.
@@
January 11th, 2013
11:37 am
Well….Washington state has no income tax, while neighboring Oregon has no sales tax. If you work in Washington state and live close to the border with Oregon, you’re in tax heaven. From light blue Washington to royal blue Oregon.
But the weather sux.
I cannot, for the life of me, understand why libs aren’t on board with a flat tax. It does away with special interests. Eliminate all income tax and go flat, I say.
Maybe to make it more palatable to the Dems, drop sales taxes on drugs and all grocery purchases.
Agreed.
MarkV
January 11th, 2013
11:38 am
Unlike on the federal level, I believe that a replacement of the state income tax with sales tax is worth serious consideration.
@@
January 11th, 2013
11:45 am
With income AND sales tax, the government gets us coming and going.
WE earn it, THEY tax it. WE spend it, THEY tax it.
Cherokee
January 11th, 2013
11:48 am
Rafe, what Texas is doing is drilling for the oil and gas that’s under their ground.
It’s a little too late in the game for Georgia to bury that stuff here so that we can employ people to go get it.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 11th, 2013
11:49 am
Rafe: It’s called oil if you don’t know we are addicted to it!
Road, some of that, but it is mostly infusion of people, businesses, and money, due to the business friendly environment, low taxes, less regulation and a ” do whatever you want lifestyle”. Growth in itself is contagious, like baseball when everyone is hitting, it is more likely that you will.
Stephenson Billings
January 11th, 2013
11:51 am
Another day, another Lib wanting tax payers to just grab their ankles and take it from Uncle Same
Stephenson Billings
January 11th, 2013
11:51 am
Sam…. whoops.
HDB
January 11th, 2013
11:53 am
By eliminating the income tax and replacing it with sales taxes, it winds up creating a more REGRESSIVE tax structure because those with less disposable income will wind up paying more for necessities………
Alabama has a 10% sales tax….along with a state income tax…….
A PROGRESSIVE FLAT income tax is what’s really needed…………….
curious
January 11th, 2013
11:54 am
Most low income people have a relatively finite amount of money to spend.
Regardless of the Sales Tax rate, they aren’t going to spend more than that finite amount.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 11th, 2013
11:56 am
I’m in Texas frequently, and seems to me most of the derricks are still idle, as they have been for years. Louisiana is a big oil state, if oil was the answer they would be “in the clover”.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
January 11th, 2013
12:04 pm
Unless I’m mistaken, dumping the state income tax means on fewer deductions on my federal 1040.
No thanks!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
12:05 pm
Not surprising that Finn focuses on food when trying to discuss sales tax comparisons, which is the way most libs attack the FairTax and their perceived inequities of it at the Federal level. However, what Finn doesn’t mention is that rich people buy more things – they buy more food because they entertain more. They buy new BMW’s and Lexus’ instead of used Chevys, and do so more often. They buy bigger, more expensive houses. and they improve them more often, which means they buy more building materials.
Eliminate the income tax, adjust property taxes at the local level for local services and move into the 21st century regarding tax policy.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 11th, 2013
12:06 pm
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfptx2&f=a
Texas Field Production of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels per Day)
Decade Year-0 Year-1 Year-2 Year-3 Year-4 Year-5 Year-6 Year-7 Year-8 Year-
1980’s 2,554 2,488 2,419 2,413 2,381 2,245 2,085 2,010 1,885
1990’s 1,859 1,870 1,778 1,696 1,618 1,533 1,485 1,470 1,383 1,231
2000’s 1,211 1,162 1,112 1,098 1,073 1,076 1,075 1,072 1,109 1,093
2010’s 1,171 1,463
Oil production has been on a downward trend since 1980, with an insignificant bump in the last couple of years.
So, there goes the lib theory on Texas’ booming economy.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 11th, 2013
12:10 pm
Finn’s Big Mac analogy is also flawed, but then again it is Finn’s analogy, so no surprise. Rich people are more likely to eat at Longhorn than McDonalds and pay more income tax on lunch, while also helping some poor person by leaving a nice tip,
Glenn
January 11th, 2013
12:12 pm
Florida doesn’t have income tax and there economy has never been good . Seems to me that if you eliminate the income tax you will just raise taxes in other areas or we will finally run a deficit in Georgia .
Latifah
January 11th, 2013
12:15 pm
Once your odometer turns 65 in GA the first $65,000 of retirement income is tax exempt, so you have that to look forward to.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 11th, 2013
12:17 pm
Any one who has driven I-35 from Dallas to San Antonio knows that the recession has not touched Texas. Whatever they are doing, we need to get on board.
Rafe – It’s called Fracking. And horizontal drilling. You no longer need a derrick in every back yard, you can do a wide area extraction from a relatively small single location. But alas, unless you’ve got an existing permit, dream on about those budget surpluses, abundant good paying jobs and economic boom times that North Dakota and Texas are currently enjoying. obozo and his army of environmental terrorists have locked down everything else and clutch their crying towels like colicky two year olds. They hate America and much prefer that you live in the Stone Ages as long as it doesn’t encroach on their little hidey places like DC.
(Louisiana forfeited it’s right to extract oil when they invited all of socialism over to examine their leaking oil rig out in the gulf. They’ll NEVER recover from the drilling they’re getting right now.)
Dusty
January 11th, 2013
12:25 pm
zzzzzzz All I want is to have my taxes cut on everything and live happily ever after. Also, let us drill for oil in Georgia. There should be plenty. with all the greasy raucous northerners flooding the state not to mention their great inclination to say something BAD about Georgia.
( Actually I love all Americans even the greasy ones!.) But fiscal fandangling is not fun. Boring even as we die from poor federal management in this country. THE DEBT!!
Now THAT is scary enough to be interesting.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 11th, 2013
12:26 pm
Pay dirt: West Texas oil boom is ‘like Christmas morning’
Flock to area causes housing shortage
Posted: December 6, 2012 – 11:41pm
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 11th, 2013
12:29 pm
Posted on November 13, 2012 at 7:44 AM
From loaded trucks flooding roads to hiring signs posted on Interstate 20, the massive West Texas oil boom is driving the economy out of a long depression.
Barry Obama, community organizer
January 11th, 2013
12:46 pm
How about a national sales tax? I’ve got some groovy social programs I want to implement.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
12:52 pm
Yeah, most wealthy people I know don’t spend most of their disposable income – they invest it so it will continue to earn money.
Ain’t no sales tax on socking it away.
You don’t like the Big Mac example, then use the family of 4 that cooks their dinner. They family that is better off makes 5 times what the poor family makes so are they going to spend 5x as much to prepare their breakfast, lunch and dinner 24×7x365? Not very likely.
An apple costs me just as much as it costs you folks. Hamburger Helper costs me the same as it costs you.
TiredOfIt
January 11th, 2013
12:55 pm
The rich will never go for a true flat tax or the mis-named fair tax.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
12:57 pm
Increase the tax on ammunition by 50,000%.
Decrease the tax on guns to 0%
You can have all the guns, high capacity clips, and assault rifles you want! You just can’t afford t buy ammo.
mwuahahahahahaha. Ohhh, it’s coming
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
12:59 pm
If you can’t afford bullets, just throw the gun at your enemy. Those little metal pistols can hurt…..trust me.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
January 11th, 2013
12:59 pm
Ain’t no sales tax on socking it away.
———-
No, but savings are used to finance job creation, investments in plants and equipment, and other activities that do generate more sales tax revenue.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
January 11th, 2013
1:01 pm
You just can’t afford t buy ammo.
———–
I’m sure the black market would fill the need just fine.
MarkV
January 11th, 2013
1:05 pm
There is a big difference between replacing state income tax with sales tax, and doing the same with the federal income tax. It stems mainly from the amount of needed revenues. On the state level, the regressive nature of the sales tax is tolerable, which is not the case for the much higher federal taxes.
—————–
Dusty,
You might check the end of the yesterday’s blog. No compulsion, but getting off the subject might be acceptable there.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
1:07 pm
Phil Gingrey on Todd Akin:
“… a woman’s body has a way of shutting down so the pregnancy would not occur. He’s partly right on that.”
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
1:08 pm
We just can’t take you Cons outside on days when the press people are around…
southpaw
January 11th, 2013
1:09 pm
Finn wants only the rich to be able to defend themselves.
Georgia
January 11th, 2013
1:12 pm
Wait a minute. Are some of the contributors to this blog’s comment board employees of the AJC, and actually working in the same building as JayKyle?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
1:15 pm
Funniest line of the day is Finn trying to make us believe he knows rich people.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
1:21 pm
Finn wants only the rich to be able to defend themselves.
Yeah, well, no one is going to be stealing from your trailer, Southpaw. So, you really don’t have much to defend.
Jefferson
January 11th, 2013
1:25 pm
Tax burden shift is what that is, the fair way is a progressive income tax. One day it will be like 1917 in Russia if you keep making more poor people.
teacher
January 11th, 2013
1:26 pm
ever been to Oregon. 3 or 4 % flat income tax and no sales tax its weird to pay 9.99 for something.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
1:27 pm
I know dirt poor rednecks, too, Tiberius.
Or, perhaps you don’t consider us friends?
Centrist
January 11th, 2013
1:55 pm
Left unsaid in the blog and by State representatives is that there is a large untaxed underground economy, leaving honest taxpayers paying the bill. Non reporting and under reporting of income, complicated deductions (some bogus), and interpretations of accounting rules has made the income tax system untrustworthy – leading to more people justifying cutting corners.
A consumption tax is simpler, easier to avoid fraud, fairer, and captures the underground economy. But it doesn’t reward nearly as many special interest political contributors, friends, family and cronies which is the primary reason we are stuck with the mammoth income tax system mess we have.
Good to see some states are considering moving to match Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Alaska, Nevada, South Dakota, New Hampshire, Washington, and Wyoming.
Barry Obama, community organizer
January 11th, 2013
2:03 pm
“Tax burden shift is what that is, the fair way is a progressive income tax. One day it will be like 1917 in Russia if you keep making more poor people.” – Jefferson
The more poor people that can be created through my policies means perpetual power for my party. There won’t be too many left to vote Republican.
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
2:12 pm
There won’t be too many left to vote Republican.
Love it!!
You’re doing a heckuva job, connies….
yuzeyurbrane
January 11th, 2013
2:14 pm
Show me the evidence that low corporate taxation has led to economic growth in Georgia. This is just a continued reverse Robin Hood program of stealing from the poor and middle class to make the rich even richer.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
2:28 pm
yuze @ 2:14: What “low corporate taxation”? In its latest State Business Tax Climate Index, the Tax Foundation rates Georgia 34th.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
2:28 pm
That’s on a scale in which 1 represents low taxation and 50 high taxation.
d
January 11th, 2013
2:30 pm
Despite the fact that sales taxes are very regressive taxes (I buy a loaf of bread and minimum wage worker buys a loaf of bread, the sales tax takes a bigger hit for the minimum wage worker) I think I would support this idea at a state level. It would probably be a boon to state coffers as people would likely spend the extra money from their paychecks in state – and heck, with the world’s busiest airport here in Georgia, we see people changing planes all the time grabbing a cup of coffee at Starbucks. It’d be nice to have their dollars here in Georgia so we could pay our teachers what they deserve.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
2:31 pm
yuz, at some pint you’re going to have to actually start using your brain and understand that one-dimensional thinking (that being that tax rates alone drive economic growth) just doesn’t work with an economy.
It’s lack of thinking like yours that has gotten this country into the mess it is in right now, with no hope of ever escaping from it.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
January 11th, 2013
2:31 pm
Switching to a sales tax would ensure the moocher class pays their fair share instead of ducking taxation by not working for a living.
Laurie
January 11th, 2013
2:33 pm
Income tax is the most fair way to collect money, so it’s not suprising that southern states want to do away with it. Texas state sales tax is 8.75%. If Ga follows suit, consumers will be asked to pay as much as 11.75% in tax given the various local options enacted over the years. Given our current laws regarding sales tax collection across state lines, the smart people will shop more online to get around the high tax. But, you know who doesn’t have to worry about policing internet sales and the effect on state economy? Oregon. They have no sales tax, thus bypassng that whole issue.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
2:34 pm
Uh, d?
Most of your teacher’s salaries are paid for at the LOCAL level, not through state funding.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
January 11th, 2013
2:35 pm
Show me the evidence that high personal taxation has led to economic growth in the United States.
Taxes don’t lead to economic growth. They retard it.
teacher
January 11th, 2013
2:37 pm
tiberius,
henry co teacher salary 48000
45000 from state
3000 from henry
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
2:38 pm
“the smart people will shop more online to get around the high tax.”
Really, Laurie?
They’re gonna buy their lumber, cars, food, etc over the Internet?
Day-to-day stuff is bought LOCALLY. Always has been; always will be.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
2:41 pm
teacher.
Nope.
Funding goes from local property taxes to the state first, then is doled back out to each county (a grossly inefficient and ineffective way to do so, but it allows the state to redistribute income from wealthier counties to poorer ones).
Nice try, though. Next time learn how your taxes are collected and distributed, OK?
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
2:44 pm
The Tax Foundation???
An EXTREMELY suspect group.
My goodness, look at their present and past board of directors.
And where do they get their dough? ExxonMobi, andthe Koch Family Foundations among other corporate and neocon interests.
No sale…
teacher
January 11th, 2013
2:51 pm
tib,
i don’t think so..only about .25 of a mill goes to the state to get redirected to other counties.
kyle do you know???
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
2:52 pm
JamVet @ 2:44: Would you care to examine how they put together their index and criticize that, or just slander them based on who some of their past board members are?
Don’t bother. I know the answer.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
2:54 pm
Tiberius @ 2:41: That’s not right. The redistribution you’re talking about comes from state funds. Local governments also levy their own taxes that they keep for themselves. This was the premise of the lawsuit that led to the original charter schools commission’s being overturned: The locals didn’t like receiving less in state funding based on what they did with their local funding, over which the state otherwise had no control.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
2:56 pm
In all, roughly half of all education spending in Georgia is made by local governments with locally levied and collected taxes (primarily property taxes).
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
3:01 pm
My, my, my, a tad touchy aren’t we, Mr Wingfield?
Saying they are suspect is now considered slandering them.
But since you have all the answers I’ll let you explain why their data is infallible.
teacher
January 11th, 2013
3:01 pm
kyle,
about half the funding for schools come from local funding for day to day stuff…heat, gas for busses, building upkeep.
salaries are about 90% on the state. right?????
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:02 pm
JamVet @ 3:01: I never said their data are infallible, but you sure suggested their data are not trustworthy.
So, please, by all means, explain why the data are untrustworthy.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:03 pm
teacher @ 3:01: That’s about right. I don’t know off the top of my head if 90% is exactly correct, but it’s in that vicinity. Definitely a majority.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
3:04 pm
This shifts alot of the tax burden from welathy business on to the backs on the poor so of course Republicans will be all for it
In other news….
Rep. Phil Gingrey, R-Ga., a former obstetrician-gynecologist, said at a town hall meeting that Akin was “partly right” in his controversial suggestion, which was widely cited as a factor in his loss to Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill, D, this past November.
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/11/16465141-gop-congressman-akins-rape-comments-were-partly-right?lite
Once again Georgia Republicans make us the laughingstock of the nation.
Centrist
January 11th, 2013
3:05 pm
Many of the “poor” make a lot of unreported money – avoid tax and qualify for more subsidies, grants, programs.
The regressive issue can easily be overcome by not taxing BASIC necessities (true groceries, minimal lodging, minimal utilities). Of course, the special interests all line up to get included in what the term “basic” means. We currently tax a flat 6% above $10K of income which is essentially the same as excluding basic necessities.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
3:06 pm
US economist Paul Krugman has characterised the Tax Foundation as “not a reliable source” while criticizing a report by the Tax Foundation comparing corporate tax rates in the United States to those in other countries.[43] Krugman has also accused the Tax Foundation of “deliberate fraud” in connection with a report it issued concerning the American Jobs Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Foundation
Grain of salt.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 11th, 2013
3:09 pm
Wait a minute. Are some of the contributors to this blog’s comment board employees of the AJC, and actually working in the same building as JayKyle?
Ur correct! Would you like their names?
teacher
January 11th, 2013
3:09 pm
thanks kyle,
______________________________
tib,
dont worry i am not the kind of person that says i told you so
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
3:10 pm
Yeah, and how many smart people are buying lumber, Tiberius?
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:10 pm
Former NYT public editor Daniel Okrent, in the final column he wrote in that job (May 2005): Krugman has “the disturbing habit of shaping, slicing and selectively citing numbers in a fashion that pleases his acolytes but leaves him open to substantive assaults.”
So, take Cheesy’s grain of salt with a shaker of salt.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
3:10 pm
South Africa sics drones on rhino poachers
Oh yeah! That puts a dent in one underground market.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:12 pm
“how many smart people are buying lumber?”
Wow, Finn. Just wow.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
3:13 pm
Louisiana and Georgia have a lot in common
Both have allowed there school system to be taken over by the Charter School crowd.
This gives them control of the curriculum so they can slowly introduce Christianity in the classroom
All with your tax dollars.
Reality
January 11th, 2013
3:14 pm
Idiot con repubs love this idea. Why? As usual with con repubs ideas, it is because it penalizes the middle class and benefits the upper class. This is called regressive taxation – REGRESSIVE means to go backwards! Ergo: con repubs are backwards.
Removing State income tax sounds great to all, of course. But then….. the State replaces that revenue with an increase in sales tax. This means that the middle class and poor have to pay the exact same percent as the wealthy for the same item – and this is REGRESSIVE. Besides, the most wealthy would simply go to a different State for their purchases and the poor cannot and are stuck with the high sales tax. Sound fair to you?
Look at Florida as an example. They went to a no-state-income tax for a seemingly valid reason. That reason is because they have so much tourism, the increase in sales tax would largely come from out-of-state visitors instead of the citizens that live there. Sounds good, right? But the result of this is that the poorer and the middle class in Florida have suffered. They are also stuck with paying the higher sales tax, so it isn’t JUST the tourist. And, of course, the wealthy in South Beach, Key West, etc., simply jet to another State for their purchases, so it doesn’t bother them one bit.
At least Florida had a seemingly logical reason to try this. For Georgia to do it would be really really stupid. What this means is that Georgia will try it. Just like Georgia trys every stupid, failed policy there is.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
3:14 pm
Our local county collected $129 million in school property tax dollars in FY 2010-2011.
Spent $186 million on teacher salaries.
Received the difference in state dollars.
County taxes still provide the majority of teacher salaries, at least in our county.
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
3:14 pm
OK, right after you explain to me how saying their data is suspect is slandering them.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
3:17 pm
“And, of course, the wealthy in South Beach, Key West, etc., simply jet to another State for their purchases, so it doesn’t bother them one bit.”
Let’s see . . .
In Reality’s world, rich people fuel up their private jet and head off to other places to buy their food, clothing, cars, homes, and each and every day-to-day essential they use.
Just to avoid paying taxes.
‘Cause that makes so much sense.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:20 pm
JamVet @ 3:14: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Let’s review what happened here: I posted a link to a think tank’s index of state corporate tax laws. You respond by saying not to trust anything from that think tank because once upon a time a Koch Industries guy was on its board. I criticized you for calling the index untrustworthy with no other basis than the associations of some of its past board members, and challenged you to give us criticisms of the index itself. To which you responded with this nonsense.
Not that I expected anything more.
And fwiw, the reason I’m “touchy” about this has nothing to do with this particular index, the Tax Foundation, or the Koch brothers. It’s the reprehensible habit of too many people in this country — and I certainly won’t say they all have the same political leaning — to resort to this kind of childishness when discussing substantive issues. I’m offering you the opportunity to prove you are capable of something more than that. But I’m not holding my breath.
teacher
January 11th, 2013
3:22 pm
tib,
the money that is collected on your property tax goes to up keep. buildings, buses, school supplies 90 % of salaries come from the state.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
3:25 pm
The Tax Foundation is just a Koch brother organization
Not to be trusted at all.
They are just arguing for what serves their best interest and makes them wealthier
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
3:26 pm
Not using our local spreadsheet, teacher.
Also remember that state money funds the administration portion of local school systems (not just teachers), which positions are mandated by the state.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:26 pm
Tiberius @ 3:14: Your system received about $122.5M in state funding that year, $116.6M of which was tabbed for “direct instructional costs,” i.e. teachers. If you think I have it wrong, check here.
Money is fungible, so I guess you can say your county funded the majority of teacher salaries if you want. But, generally speaking wrt education funding, the state dollars are considered to go toward teacher salaries and local funds supplement those salaries and pay for most everything else (facilities, administration, transportation, etc.).
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:27 pm
Cheesy @ 3:13: How many schools are there in Georgia? And how many of them are charter schools.
Even Krugman usually doesn’t flat-out make up his facts.
teacher
January 11th, 2013
3:27 pm
tib,
henry co.
income:
90 mil comes from local
188 mil from state
expenses
instruction(salaries 207 mil) state $$$
the rest is 75 mil local $$$
http://schoolwires.henry.k12.ga.us/cms/lib/GA01000549/Centricity/Domain/42/FY13%20Approved%20Budget.pdf
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
3:28 pm
Just to avoid paying taxes.
‘Cause that makes so much sense.
Mitt Romney would
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:29 pm
Right on cue, and as per usual, Cheesy provides another example of what I was talking about @ 3:20.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
3:29 pm
calling the index untrustworthy with no other basis than the associations of some of its past board members
And the mafia once employed a guy named Al Capone. But those days are over….
The Catholic church once employed Grand Inquisitors looking for people to burn alive…..but those days are over.
Reality Check
January 11th, 2013
3:29 pm
That would be the biggest economic development plan the state has even seen. Unfortunately we don’t have bold enough leaders to do it.
The house leadership lacks true conservatives and Cagle would never do it. The best chance we had was when the Senate’s conservatives were in power. No one wants to try anything this big. It’s quite a shame.
Shafer won’t do it because it’s too big of a risk.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
3:31 pm
Cheesy @ 3:13: How many schools are there in Georgia? And how many of them are charter schools.
Don’t know. Enlighten me
But when you see the nutty stuff they are teaching in LA charter schools
Well….it doesn’t take a genius to figure out we are next.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
3:32 pm
The Republican Party was once composed of people who thought women’s bodies could shut down that whole childbirth thing during rape….but those days are over.
Sign me up!
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
3:34 pm
Wow, Kyle meltdown.
Cool.
I criticized you for calling the index untrustworthy…
No you said I slandered them.
Which is a……………………….. prevarication.
slander -noun
1. defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.
2. a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report
Keep dancing…
But the funniest part of this?
You even botched your own link. What “low corporate taxation”? In its latest State Business Tax Climate Index, the Tax Foundation rates Georgia 34th. In point of fact, the report you cite lists Georgia as number 9 – not number 34 – in it’s corporate tax rank.
And yes, I have data that shows their stats are sometimes skewed and that they themselves have changed them to accommodate critiques from others.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 11th, 2013
3:35 pm
This gives them control of the curriculum so they can slowly introduce Christianity in the classroom
cheesy – Long before you had your first faulty thought, public schools would start the days classes by saying a prayer.
And we were a much better nation in those days.
Centrist
January 11th, 2013
3:35 pm
Kyle,
I don’t see much “sport” in challenging partisan, knee-jerk posters who make silly statements that can’t be backed up with facts. I see the known screen names and skip further down to read (hopefully) some lucid comments. There are some here.
teacher
January 11th, 2013
3:38 pm
there is a teacher salary scale for the state of GA provided by state funds. you can make more money by going to “richer” counties because they will add a local supplement (extra pay provided with local $$$$$) that is why you can make more money working in Atlanta. it would be impossible for small rural counties to pay 200 teachers 40k year out of local dollars…that is why it is like 90 % from the state and 10% from local dollars
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
3:39 pm
And we were a much better nation in those days.
That’s a belief that separates youses from uses. We think we are headed in the right direction while you folks pine for the 1950’s. The days of no gay marriage, illegal weed, human telephone operators, and outhouses is long gone, my friend.
josef
January 11th, 2013
3:41 pm
Cheesy
What is the nutty stuff being taught in LA’s charter schools…enlighten us with cites for the curricula…
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:42 pm
“Don’t know. Enlighten me”
There are more than 2,000 schools in Georgia. There are fewer than 150 charter schools, and the vast majority of them are run by the same school boards that run traditional public schools. But they’re “taking over”!
Riiiiight. You know, Cheesy, for someone who supposedly is so concerned about the veracity of what kids are taught in school, you sure do have a tendency to post comments about a topic without any semblance of a knowledge of the facts.
josef
January 11th, 2013
3:42 pm
CHEESY
What is your opinion of Michelle Rhee?
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:45 pm
JamVet @ 3:34: Go ahead. Get caught up on the semantics of what I said you did. Gives you a good smokescreen for dodging the real issue.
And no, I didn’t botch my own link. You are talking about one component of the overall business tax climate. Or do you think the corporate income tax is the only factor in “corporate taxation”?
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:46 pm
Centrist @ 3:35: Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who will believe those silly statements unless I demonstrate how ridiculously fact-free they are.
Gimme Gimme Gimme
January 11th, 2013
3:47 pm
Finn – To boil these plans down, the goal is to shift the tax burden off of the high-end earners and on to the middle and lower classes. Wake up, people.
A guy making $100,000 a year pays the exact same price for a Big mac as the guy making $20,000 a year. And both of them can – logically – not consume more than 1 per meal. So, they, in effect, are paying equal total taxes.
The wealthy can’t spend enough in consumption to make up for the difference in the tax revenue that would be lost through ditching income taxes
___________________________________________________________
That has to be one one of the most brain dead post’s I have ever seen.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 11th, 2013
3:48 pm
finn – You wouldn’t know dignity and respect if you fell over them. This is the most shallow, self indulged generation in all the history of the world. For you to be proud of it means that you only lack the awareness of how hollow and debased you are.
Just saying.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
3:48 pm
“We think we are headed in the right direction”
Insolvency is the right direction, Finn?
“while you folks pine for the 1950’s”
An expanding economy, low deficits, less crime, and the U.S. respected around the world? Yeah, I’d take that in a second, Finn.
Centrist
January 11th, 2013
3:49 pm
Could it be that Kyle is actually using the “Cheesy”, “JDW” and other pseudonyms with non-factual posts so that he can thoroughly correct them to make his points? If so, the gambit is working perfectly.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 11th, 2013
3:50 pm
The Republican Party was once composed of people who thought women’s bodies could shut down that whole childbirth thing during rape….but those days are over.
“It’s becoming more and more important, in terms of what studies we do, to focus our efforts on the physiological effects of stress and how they may play a role in conception,” says Margareta D. Pisarska, MD, co-director of Center for Reproductive Medicine at Cedars Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles and editor-in-chief of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine News.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:51 pm
Centrist @ 3:49: I’m not that industrious.
indigo
January 11th, 2013
3:51 pm
Aesop – 3:35
That’s true.
However they did NOT teach the following:
1. The Earth is flat and 6,000 years old.
2. The Earth is the center of the Universe.
3. Humans are God’s ultimate creation.
4. Evolution and Astromony are tools of the devil from the pits of hell.
5. And anyway, we’re all just strangers here – heaven is our home.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
3:51 pm
This is the most shallow, self indulged generation in all the history of the world.
Just like the one before it was the most in all history…and the one before that was the most in all history….and the one before that….
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
January 11th, 2013
3:52 pm
Krugman stopped being an economist and started being a Democrat political hack long ago.
BW
January 11th, 2013
3:52 pm
Kyle
Just a simple question: Will the move to sales tax be designed to be revenue neutral? I can’t answer your question about whether or not it would be a good idea without that information. If it’s going to be revenue neutral then I say no simply because the budget is barebones now and can’t fund our growing social (mainly medical for the poor) and infrastructure needs. The people and state need to have a come to Jesus meeting of what they want the state to fund through taxes and how to allocate it.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
3:52 pm
cheesy – Long before you had your first faulty thought, public schools would start the days classes by saying a prayer.
What does your religion have to do with me ?
Riiiiight. You know, Cheesy, for someone who supposedly is so concerned about the veracity of what kids are taught in school, you sure do have a tendency to post comments about a topic without any semblance of a knowledge of the facts.
Here is a fact. Christianity is taught in LA public schools using tax dollars.
“God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ.”—America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994…
That is taught in LA charter schools
Soon to come to Georgia.
With your tax dollars.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
3:53 pm
Insolvent? The US?
Pahleasssse. Crack an economics book once every 50 years, dude.
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
3:54 pm
Get caught up on the semantics…
Yeah, I’m kinda funny that way, Kyle. Always have been.
When people show no basic respect for the language, make up their own definitions and after getting called on it don’t own up to it, I do tend to point that out.
One more time so as to be perfectly clear – saying what i wrote was slander was absurdly false.
But hey! It’s your little fiefdom here, so you can engage in all the Republispeak you want.
Caution: the Tax Foundation’s State and Local Tax Rankings are Unreliable
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=574
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
3:54 pm
My Charter school teaches that Man created god, not the other way around.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
3:56 pm
An expanding economy, low deficits, less crime, and the U.S. respected around the world? Yeah, I’d take that in a second, Finn.
And the black man and minorities and women knew their place !!!!
Also top tax rates in the 50’s were around 91 percent.
Centrist
January 11th, 2013
3:56 pm
Kyle,
Nice to have such easily conquered foils – no need to be industrious; they lay it all out on a plate for you.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:57 pm
BW @ 3:52: Jindal’s office has not yet (to my knowledge) released those kinds of details about the plan.
josef
January 11th, 2013
3:57 pm
CHEESY
“God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ.”—America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994…
Interesting you should bring that in…would you tell me which school(s) and where?
The reason I ask, is that as we post, on the other screen I am at work on a curriculum focused on the Southeastern Indian heritage for a Louisiana Charter School…and that is NOT what is going into it.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
3:57 pm
“When people show no basic respect for the language, make up their own definitions and after getting called on it don’t own up to it, I do tend to point that out.”
You point out your own posts, AmVet?
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
3:59 pm
Could it be that Kyle is actually using the “Cheesy”, “JDW” and other pseudonyms with non-factual posts so that he can thoroughly correct them to make his points? If so, the gambit is working perfectly.
I can confirm that I am not Kyle
Im sure Kyle would confirm he isn’t me. ( He has )
Is that you John Wayne…..Is this me…..
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
3:59 pm
“Also top tax rates in the 50’s were around 91 percent.”
On far fewer people.
“And the black man and minorities and women knew their place !!!!”
Ahhh. The race card. Used by the ignorant when they have nothing else to say.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
3:59 pm
JamVet @ 3:54: I see your tap-dancing has bought you enough time to find a criticism of a Tax Foundation study. Unfortunately, it’s not the study I linked. Keep dancing!
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
4:01 pm
But given your professed devotion to the language, JamVet, here’s a question for you: Does your “basic respect for the language,” which allows no one to “make up their own definitions,” extend to the word “marriage”?
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
4:02 pm
Interesting you should bring that in…would you tell me which school(s) and where?
http://boingboing.net/2012/08/08/crazy-stuff-theyll-teach-in.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Its sourced all over the net.
I have no doubt that its accurate.
Louisiana governor (and retired exorcist) Bobby Jindal has signed an aggressive charter school bill that will transfer millions in tax dollars to religious academies run by evolution-denying, homophobic, climate-change-denying Christian extremists. Mother Jones’s Deanna Pan went for a dig through these schools’ official texts and discovered that Louisiana’s publicly funded education system will soon tell some of its luckiest students that the KKK “achieved a certain respectability” by fighting bootleggers; “the majority of slave holders treated their slaves well;” dragons might be real; “dinosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time,” and many other fun facts.
josef
January 11th, 2013
4:02 pm
KYLE
Not to bring my issues with some of the posters from Big Daddy’s verandah on to yours where I’m a guest. but when it comes to dancing a two-step, you’re talking to the master thereof there!
MarkV
January 11th, 2013
4:03 pm
I can’t help but enjoy the reversal of the usual roles. Usually it is the cons that dismiss any arguments they do not like if the source is PolitiFact, because of the presumed ties to a lib donor. Never mind the fact cited. This time it is a lib doing that with Tax Foundation data, and Kyle is up in arms that anybody would use such a reprehensible argument. Hilarious.
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
4:03 pm
Lil Tibby, stay out of the adult’s conversation.
For once.
Kyle doesn’t need your pathetic “help”…
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 11th, 2013
4:03 pm
First, a government school, like charters, can not teach advocate religion. I would prefer schools stick to teaching the three R’s and leave most everything else to the parents and churches.
However, many parents are given the choice of sending their children to private religious schools or having them exposed to government liberal indoctrination. Many protestants and Jewish people choose to send their children to Catholic schools and vice versa for a better more academic based education and just to keep them away from the indoctrination that comes standard in a government school.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
4:05 pm
Had forgotten Jindal had performed a few exorcisms.
Would have loved to been a fly on that wall.
Thats good entertainment.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 11th, 2013
4:05 pm
indigo – The Bible is an interpretation of God’s Word, written by man. Nobody knows for sure if, on the seventh day, God rested. We weren’t there to check it out for ourselves. The Bible was also written in 800 BC, if I’m remembering correctly, so yes, some of the scriptures will not include a Prius or any other lib wonders of the world.
That being said, next time you wander through the Scriptures cherry picking those you find incredulous and funny, try reading the New Testament and see how they describe the fools of the day. Now that’s something we can all agree on, isn’t it?
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
4:05 pm
MarkV @ 4:03: I can’t speak for others, but I have never dismissed PolitiFact out of hand due to any of its associations. I have criticized some of its rulings and given my reasons for doing so … just as I have asked JamVet to do in this case. So, I don’t see how any roles are reversed today.
indigo
January 11th, 2013
4:08 pm
Aesop – 4:05
Shakespear was also very good at describing the “fools of the day”
That, however, does not make his words inspired by God.
josef
January 11th, 2013
4:08 pm
CHEESY
And in which schools in which parishes have these been used.
I would suggest you look into the use of the charter school concept to fund schools aimed at preserving, protecting, developing and expanding French language schools in the state. You might also want to check into the use of the charter concept to do the same with the Creek language.
Charter schools are what we, that means you and I, make of them.
You say “will transfer” funds. I will agree that it “can” but the “will” part assumes that the “can” potential has become fait accompli, and I am interested, seriously, in seeing where and how much.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
January 11th, 2013
4:09 pm
“I think he’s a pompous a*s,” Ed Koch, speaking about Thomas Friedman.
Dusty
January 11th, 2013
4:10 pm
OH my my I’d better hurry. This is getting to be more like the Ok Corral. With JamVet trying to “show off”, Cheesy trying to be smart, and Finn trying to be snappy, it aint no fun here. Too bad those folks can’t get their own job instead of trying to tell Kyle how to run his. And those three couldn’t run a lemonade stand.
Anyway, JOSEF mentioned Michelle Rhee who was giving a command performance with Washington DC schools. Of course, that was like turning the tide around. KInda hard to do. She left. Don’t know how they did it but she is gone from there.
For a brief moment let us retreat to the English countryside. MARK V, do tell me what happened at Downton Abbey this last time. Don’t spare me the fervor or the falls. I can take it!!
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
4:11 pm
Never said it was, and I found it long before i spent more energy on keystrokes trying to get you to acknowledge your intellectual dishonesty vis a vis the word slander.
But to your point, in this case yes i did shoot the messenger and not the message.
And here is a cite from a book which is apparently not that heavily used by you! (Ya slanderer! LOL!)
marriage -noun
1a – the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc. Antonyms: separation.
1b – a similar institution involving partners of the same gender: gay marriage.
Is that they answer you were looking for?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
January 11th, 2013
4:11 pm
I think he’s an idiot.
Matt Taibbi, speaking about Thomas Friedman.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
4:13 pm
“Kyle doesn’t need your pathetic “help”…”
You’re finally right, AmVet.
He’s kicking your sorry a$$ all over his blog, son.
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
4:13 pm
Dusty, grow up see my 4:03 to tibby.
Michael H. Smith
January 11th, 2013
4:14 pm
Hilarious! brucie, corporations/businesses absolutely do not absorb any taxes they pay. If you just have to call it an “expense” to fit your syntactical ideology, so be it; but that tax expense, like ALL other expenses corporations/businesses pay are past onto we the taxpaying/consumers.
The biggest shell game in history is the so-called taxes businesses pay, which are in real terms are pass-through taxes heaped onto we taxpaying/consumers.
If you really want to go after “Corporate Welfare” then attack their taylor-made deductions and regulations. However, you’ll have to become a bi-partisan, because both sides are in bed with Big Corporate Business America: Just the facts brucie… Boooowhaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaaaa
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
4:14 pm
Then go back and hide under your be and let him finish, grandson…
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 11th, 2013
4:14 pm
indigo – I’m pretty sure that Jesus was inspired by God. Have you ever actually read the Bible?
josef
January 11th, 2013
4:19 pm
Cheesy
“The school visited by the president, the Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Charter School for Science and Technology, educates mainly poor African-American children. It stands out as a success story, along with other New Orleans charters, when compared with the city’s traditional public schools, which are still largely classified as failing.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/the-monitors-view/2009/1015/p08s01-comv.html
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
4:21 pm
indigo – I’m pretty sure that Jesus was inspired by God. Have you ever actually read the Bible?
I have…most of it.
Its one big contradiction.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
4:23 pm
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2012/10/29/failing-charter-finally-closes-and-principal-collects-a-cool-half-million-why-oversight-ought-to-be-important/
Thats one outcome josef
Here is another.
Charter schools have not NOT proven to be anymore effective than public schools.
Thats not what its about anyway.
Its about getting control of the curriculum.
Michael H. Smith
January 11th, 2013
4:24 pm
A *bleep* FLAT income tax is what’s really needed.
Well, you were almost there brucie, just needed the removal of the “P” word which stands for socialist these days and eradicating those phony businesses taxes that we the consumer eventaully pay.
JamVet
January 11th, 2013
4:26 pm
tax expense, like ALL other expenses corporations/businesses pay are past onto we the taxpaying/consumers.
And with that observation, MHS destroys his own argument.
But he will never take that argument to it’s logical conclusion…
josef
January 11th, 2013
4:27 pm
CHEESY
As I pointed out, the charter schools are what we make of them. For many previously unserved groups, it provides the opportunity to focus and develop a curriculum oriented to the specific needs of that community. Two of my own big issues have to do with the French culture of Louisiana and the Southeastern Indians. The charter movement has been a G-dsend there.
MarkV
January 11th, 2013
4:29 pm
Kyle Wingfield @ 4:05 pm
What I meant was a reversal in which sides is making which argument. I never accused you personally of the reversal.
Michael H. Smith
January 11th, 2013
4:30 pm
Wrong brucie, you will never take my winning argument to the logical conclusion.
@@
January 11th, 2013
4:30 pm
DAMN! Just when I thought I was moving further to the right, I discover I’m in agreement with a “Centrist” and Michael H. Smith, with whom I’ve exchanged harsh words….well….not really harsh per se.
So has anybody delved into the success of those countries who’ve adopted the flat tax?
Flat Tax Is Fantasy In U.S. But Works Fine Behind Old Iron Curtain
Okay…so the good ol’ U.S.of A has never existed behind an iron curtain, but it’s all too apparent that dems are lookin’ to bring the hammer down on the producers among us.
Reality
January 11th, 2013
4:30 pm
@Tiberious -
You said, “In Reality’s world, rich people fuel up their private jet and head off to other places to buy their food, clothing, cars, homes, and each and every day-to-day essential they use.”
First of all, I never said those words. Must you lie about others posts so that you can make your (in)valid point?????
Second, it is my world. I have a summer home in Florida and personally know quite a number of those “most wealthy”. They also have second and third homes. Do they purchase their goods in Florida? Heck no. They jet off to one of their other homes in another State and make their purchases where the State sales tax is much much cheaper.
It is reality whether you like it or not and whether you accept it or not.
Dusty
January 11th, 2013
4:31 pm
Uh oh,
JamVet is all uptight. Tried to pick a fight. Made a punch to the right. Kyle turned off his “might”.. OH what a sight! Po’ ‘lil’ Amvet, still uptight!. He just aint bright!
MarkV
January 11th, 2013
4:33 pm
Dusty @ 4:10 pm
Dusty,
I would be happy to do that, but I prefer to do it on the page of the yesterday’s bolog, so that we are not accused of being so much off the subject. I will do it now. Please let me know if that is not convenient.
Michael H. Smith
January 11th, 2013
4:34 pm
@@ ,
Let’s hear your grand argument for ending income taxes altogether, which I’m sure will be the “Fair Tax”?
By the way, a flat tax is not “regressive”.
Michael H. Smith
January 11th, 2013
4:36 pm
Oh and @@,
I’m loaded and ready to explain my reasoning in support of a two tier flat tax.
getalife
January 11th, 2013
4:38 pm
cons are never right so it is a horrible idea.
Reality
January 11th, 2013
4:38 pm
The ultimate logic regarding flat tax and/or lowering taxes on the most wealthy.
The arguement FOR this includes primarily the issue surrounding jobs. They will argue that the ‘most wealthy’ will provide the ‘most jobs’ and will help the middle class. So, we need to reduce their tax rates as much as possible. Am I right so far you con repubs?
So, with any logic such as this, let’s take it to the extreme to see if your reasoning holds. Would you be okay with the ‘most wealthy’ not paying any tax to help your cause? Just think…. if they really do create jobs, then won’t this make unemployment go to 0?
And, in turn, this would shift the tax burden 100% to the others, right?
Guess what this mirrors? Take one guess. I dare you.
Isn’t this pretty much the definition of SLAVERY? Someone working for nothing? The middle class and the ‘others’ will be working with practically all of their paycheck going to pay the 100% of taxes (since the wealthy pay nothing).
Is this really a good thing for America? Didn’t Lincoln settle this long ago?
Reality
January 11th, 2013
4:41 pm
@ Michael H. Smith,
If a flat tax is not regressive. Pray tell – what is your definition of a regressive tax?
I only ask because in every accounting book I have ever seen in my life this fits the definition….
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
January 11th, 2013
4:44 pm
As I pointed out, the charter schools are what we make of them. For many previously unserved groups, it provides the opportunity to focus and develop a curriculum oriented to the specific needs of that community.
Extremely dangerous.
See Kansas BOE.
I’m sure a creationist would say it was a need of that community.
Most in the community would probably agree.
But its BS and the kids would be the ones to lose.
Michael H. Smith
January 11th, 2013
4:45 pm
Reality
I’m sure your argument fits the claim of some but not me or my reasoning behind a two tier flat, which without deduction the rich with incomes would have to pay. The reason why they would suffer the progressiveness of a higher tier is because those with higher incomes have the louder voice at the ballot box, @@.
@@
January 11th, 2013
4:46 pm
Michael:
I’m a flat taxer, if for no other reason than to defeat the special interests.
I was not opposed to Citizens United because to rule against was the slippery slope to impede my free speech and yours. With a flat tax, the ruling would become moot. No need to influence when there’s nuthin’ coming back to ‘ya.
I’m loaded and ready to explain my reasoning in support of a two tier flat tax.
Be my guest. I’m all @@s.
I’ve seen Hillbilly argue for something along those same lines. I like Hillbilly better than I like you. You come off as arrogant….nothing personal, mind you. Sometimes confidence can be confused with arrogance.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
4:47 pm
“First of all, I never said those words.”
No, you didn’t Reality. You inferred them.
Then you doubled down on the stupid.
indigo
January 11th, 2013
4:48 pm
Aesop
I’ve read the Bible many times.
There is not a shred of evidence it’s inspired by God.
In fact, we don’t even know who wrote it.
@@
January 11th, 2013
4:49 pm
Michael:
The reason why they would suffer the progressiveness of a higher tier is because those with higher incomes have the louder voice at the ballot box, @@.
Don’t get all paranoid like the liberals. I’m @@, not Reality.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
4:49 pm
A flat INCOME tax is regressive.
A flat SALES tax is not.
Michael H. Smith
January 11th, 2013
4:50 pm
Reality
Pray tell you should read a math book occasionally.
Simple example: Which is a greater amount of money 10% of $100 or 10% of $200,000?
Therein is your progressiveness of a flat tax, the more money you make the more dollar amount in tax you pay.
Michael H. Smith
January 11th, 2013
4:51 pm
We disagree Tib
Michael H. Smith
January 11th, 2013
4:57 pm
Don’t get all paranoid like the liberals. I’m @@, not Reality.
I’m not. Just thought I give you my reasoning before the fact.
My greatest problem with a so-called “Fair Tax” is my reason for supporting a two tier flat tax. Most people understand that your money is your voice in politics.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 11th, 2013
4:59 pm
We don’t?
Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy = Moses – 1400 B.C.
Joshua = Joshua – 1350 B.C.
Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel = Samuel/Nathan/Gad – 1000 – 900 B.C.
1 Kings, 2 Kings = Jeremiah – 600 B.C.
1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah = Ezra – 450 B.C.
Esther = Mordecai – 400 B.C.
Job = Moses – 1400 B.C.
Psalms = several different authors, mostly David – 1000 – 400 B.C.
Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon = Solomon – 900 B.C.
josef
January 11th, 2013
4:59 pm
CHEESY
I am a public school employee. For any number of reasons, they have fallen into disrepute and are failing our future miserably. Just my opinion from the front lines, but no small part of that failure has been the lack of community involvement. Centralization and mandated curricula oriented to producing an assembly line product is not the way to go. If charter schools can make even a small dent into that “control of the curriculum” then, so be it. Anything to put the fear of G-d into those who have for so long now been above and beyond reproach.
Some charter schools will fail miserably and some will excel spectacularly. It all depends on what it is that those going into it design. No one will be “forced” to attend a charter from what I have seen so far.
I don’t think that charters are “the” answer, but they are an option.
The school where I work, works fine, but that is because we have a staff and a community who are highly involved.
Georgia
January 11th, 2013
4:59 pm
Are there employees of the AJC on the blog now?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
January 11th, 2013
5:00 pm
“Most people understand that your money is your voice in politics.”
Which is why a national sales tax, with no loopholes or deductions, is the best way to go. Takes all the money out of the vote.
d
January 11th, 2013
5:02 pm
Check any high school economics textbook and you can learn the difference between progressive, regressive, and proportional taxes. We see all three in use. Progressive – our individual income tax. The more you earn, the higher percent you pay…. Unlike most people want to say, it is marginal tax rates, not just multiply your salary by x%. So the people who saw taxes increase due to the fiscal cliff negotiations are only paying higher taxes on income over $450k, so the first $450k is taxed at the same rate as 2012.
Regressive – the higher your income the less a tax hurts you. Take my sales tax on bread issue from earlier today. If the tax is 5%, on a $20 purchase, that $1 in tax is a larger portion of a minimum wage worker’s salary than it is of mine, so it hurts that person more.
Proportional – multiply your salary by the tax rate – just like the medicare tax. If the tax is 2%, you earn $200,000, write the check for $4,000. If you earn $50,000, write the check for $1,000.
As far as who pays my salary as a teacher, I receive a $0 local supplement from DeKalb County this year, so my entire salary is the state portion.
Michael H. Smith
January 11th, 2013
5:02 pm
I’d say we agree more than disagree @@.
Anyway, time for me to go. Latter all.
Dusty
January 11th, 2013
5:03 pm
MarkV
Thanks for the review of Downton Abbey on the last blog. That was very interesting. I’ve got to get my eyes on that one. You outlined it quite well. Sounds like a great ;performance.
Goodnight . Closing time draws near…
d
January 11th, 2013
5:03 pm
Oh, and as long as we are mentioning charters, if they are the salvation, why do we continue to put more and more regulations on traditional schools? I truly believe all schools should be charter.
MarkV
January 11th, 2013
5:07 pm
Dusty @ 5:03 pm
You are welcome. G’nite
@@
January 11th, 2013
5:10 pm
Just thought I give you my reasoning before the fact.
Why do you keep bringing up your “problem with a so-called ‘Fair Tax’…” when I’m talkin’ Flat Tax?
What we have here is a failure to communicate. You’re shakin’ it, but I’m not seein’ the IT of which you speak so highly.
(ISH)
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
January 11th, 2013
5:14 pm
Are there employees of the AJC on the blog now?
It looks like finn mcfool went home for the day. I think cheesy is still here though.
getalife
January 11th, 2013
5:26 pm
kenneth the page jindal is a joke and we want him gone.
Kyle Wingfield
January 11th, 2013
5:34 pm
Immediate commenting is off until Monday morning. A new post will be upstairs around 6 p.m., and I’ll push through some comments on it during the weekend as I’m able.
Go Falcons!
Hillbilly D
January 11th, 2013
5:59 pm
A couple of points….
I don’t know the figures but Louisiana does get some money from oil and gas, so that helps keep their tax rate lower.
The sales tax is the most regressive of all taxes, so I’m ag’in it.
indigo
January 11th, 2013
6:19 pm
Aesop – 4:59
No, we don’t.
All we have is copies of copies.
However, fundamentalists, by “divine inspiration” feel they actually know who did.
the red herring
January 11th, 2013
8:08 pm
i would vote for higher state sales tax and eliminate state income tax in a heart beat. we would get some of the money we are missing from illegals, from people passing thru ga. , tourists visiting ga., etc. A wonderful idea and eliminates the need for excessive laws/rules/regs to handle state income tax— simply pay the sales tax and be done with it. hire 1/4 of the people enforcing state income tax laws to increase enforcement on businesses not reporting their sales tax correctly. a great idea.
Reality
January 11th, 2013
9:08 pm
@d -
Thank you for clearing up the definitions. I didn’t want to go there. However, I would bet that the con repubs on here (to include Michael H. Smith and others) will still refuse to admit the truth. They love to live in their bubble of lies and untruths until FOX news gives them another fable to believe in.
jorae
January 13th, 2013
10:33 am
The game is so easy to identify. Less taxes, we don’t have the money, and out goes what is the social contract. The hate and meanness should be embarrassing to normal folks. Ayn Rand… hero, to the ignorant who think things will be just fine…for people to be treated like animals.