Fiscal cliff ‘deal’ represents everything wrong with Washington

Only in Washington, D.C., do people raise taxes and fail to cut spending from what they were just a day earlier and call it the “American Taxpayer Relief Act.”

That more or less summarizes what I think about the itsy bitsy deal struck in the Senate earlier this week to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff.

I’m not going to rehash all the details of the deal. Nor do I plan to argue about whether we should consider the deal a) a tax cut for most people, because income tax rates were scheduled to go up this year and now will not, possibly resulting in a lower tax bill than many Americans were set to face in 2013 even after payroll taxes rise by 2 percentage points; or b) a tax increase, because the deal does not mean anyone will actually pay less in taxes in 2013 than they did in 2012, and many people will pay more.

It’s a rather stupid debate to have — not least because some of the same people who argue it’s a tax cut because taxes would have gone up anyway are also trying somehow to claim it’s a spending cut, even though the far-larger automatic sequester cuts have been put on hold for at least two months. Either what was going to happen by law on Jan. 1 counts when we evaluate this deal, or it doesn’t.

We have the spectacle of Republicans’ voting to raise taxes for some people and calling it a “tax cut,” as well as President Obama’s spending weeks insisting on keeping taxes the same on the middle class and striking a “balance” between tax hikes and spending cuts, and then accepting the deal even though neither goal was actually accomplished.

In fact, this “deal” is emblematic of everything that’s wrong with Washington:

1. Congress and the president created the fiscal cliff in the first place. First, they passed laws (especially pertaining to taxes) that are temporary. Second, their other “solutions,” in this case the sequester, don’t kick in for months — before which time everyone will be re-elected and then scramble to undo what they previously did. All of this sets up arbitrary future “deadlines” to resolve “crises.” Washington is forever spending the present trying to turn future actions into history before they ever even happen.

2. Congress and the president spend more time worrying about the political fallout of their policies than anything else, crafting their policies with arbitrary inflection points designed to sound good rather than to accomplish good. After all, does Obama now think someone has “made enough money” or doesn’t need a tax break at $400,000 of income rather than $200,000 (for individuals)? Is anyone in America naive enough to believe that the $400,000 threshold was chosen because there’s some evidence-based reason to believe it maximizes revenue or minimizes economic damage? (Does anyone in America even care about such things anymore?)

3. After weeks or even months of haggling, the final legislation was passed in one chamber mere hours after the deal was reached in principle and in the other only a day later — meaning, as with such hasty monstrosities as Dodd-Frank and Obamacare, congressional aides and industry lobbyists probably know more about what’s in the legislation than do the elected officials who voted for (or against) it. All, of course, because of the arbitrary deadlines mentioned above.

4. After all the focus on individual taxes, which by definition affect the most people personally, the final legislation preserved numerous carve-outs for industry (banks, Hollywood, even NASCAR) that never made the headlines during the weeks and months of haggling. Meanwhile, big elements that were discussed at length — particularly regarding entitlements — remain untouched.

5. Worst of all, the “solution” is so far removed from actually solving the original problem at hand — in this case, reducing the deficit — and pushes so much of the action into the future that we will be treated to this whole charade again within months, if not weeks or even days. Until then, however, we will hear about “bipartisanship” and “compromise” in tones suggesting that incorporating the worst ideas and hypocrisies of each side is somehow a good thing for the country.

And, due to the results of last year’s election, the very same cast of characters will be “leading” us through the next series of crises they create in the name of putting out the fire in front of them. Wonderful.

– By Kyle Wingfield

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224 comments Add your comment

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
1:01 pm

Perhaps the only redeeming feature of this whole episode is the payroll tax hike for the few Obozo voters who work for a living.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
1:05 pm

What lies will all involved tell us and each other in order to justify passing the NEXT debt limit increase?

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
1:10 pm

The animus toward government has more to do with the growing frustrations of many Americans that they’re not getting ahead no matter how hard they work. Government is an easy scapegoat, utilized by much of corporate America to convince average Americans to cut taxes, spending, and regulations.

The median wage continues to drop, adjusted for inflation, even though the economy is growing. And the share of the economy going to wages rather than to profits is the smallest on record.

Robert Reich from his latest blog

Reich knows what the count is.

independent thinker

January 2nd, 2013
1:11 pm

Kyle- Are you referring to the Obama/Biden tax cuts approved by most of the Republicans in the Senate and by Boehner and Paul Ryan? They were also approved by one of the top Republican party spokespersons, Grover Norquist who appeared on CNN no less to approve the deal. Rather than proposing amendments and spending cuts yesterday, the House spent most of the day approving a federal pay hike for themselves and naming post offices. Quite impressive. Old Joe B. must have laughed himself to death seeing what he created. Better than any New Years fireworks after McConnell screamed Uncle.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
1:13 pm

Excellent article, Kyle.

“American Taxpayer Relief Act.”

Orwellian, isn’t it?

It’s become quite obvious that these various crisis have but one purpose – to allow the democrats to belligerently force upon the opposition something they would never reasonably accept. While using their media/ propaganda outlets to gin up anxiety in favor of their desired result.

Kinda like your common marxist would.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
1:16 pm

the sequester, don’t kick in for months — before which time everyone will be re-elected and then scramble to undo what they previously did

This is the exact reason we were ready to go over the cliff. You Cons lucked out. All Obama had to do was hold tight to his guns (I guess that is more of a Con thing, eh??) and go over the cliff and then put in a tax cut for <$250K earners. Instead, earnings up to $400K are spared.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
1:17 pm

force upon the opposition

Kinda like “cram down our throats”, etc.
We know what you Cons have on your minds.

Wink wink, nudge nudge.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
1:20 pm

Finn – No, in fact, I don’t know.

Could you please explain?

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
1:23 pm

Kyle, like Robert Reich says, this fight was never about the deficit. It’s about tea-party reps )and those reps who are skeered shirt-less by tea-partiers) and their obsession with the size of government.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
1:23 pm

Hey independent thinker, do those “Obozo/Biden” tax cuts do any more to help the middle class than the Bush tax cuts?

Bwahahaahaaahaaaa!

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
1:24 pm

No, in fact, I don’t know.

That’s exactly the answer I would expect to hear. Thanks for being honest for a change.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
1:26 pm

What became of capital gains?

Mwuahahahahahahahaha. WIN for America!

MarkV

January 2nd, 2013
1:28 pm

One can count on Kyle to come up with a ridiculous sentence to start his first article of the year with:

“Only in Washington, D.C., do people raise taxes and fail to cut spending from what they were just a day earlier and call it the “American Taxpayer Relief Act.”

According to that kind of thinking, a tax relief for 98% of Americans is not a tax relief, because the remaining 2% will have to pay a little more. And a bill is not a “tax relief” because it does not contain spending cuts. Do words (and grammar) mean anything to Kyle?

Kyle Wingfield

January 2nd, 2013
1:31 pm

MarkV @ 1:28: I’m not sure what you think my grammatical problem was. But, given that the burden of spending falls on the taxpayer, I do not find it the least bit relieving not to have that burden reduced.

And if you think the top 2% are the only ones paying more after this deal, get back to me after your first paycheck of 2013 arrives.

Just Saying..

January 2nd, 2013
1:32 pm

“…big elements that were discussed at length — particularly regarding entitlements — remain untouched.”

I don’t disagree with your rant, but the expiration of the 2% SS payroll tax cut would seem to involve entitlements.

Just Saying..

January 2nd, 2013
1:36 pm

BTW, could we have a salute to the leadership shown by the Tea Party’s Inman, Senator Jim Dement?

Words chosen by John Boehner might apply…

@@

January 2nd, 2013
1:37 pm

Fiscal cliff deal leaves many in Atlanta angry

Taxes on salaries will increase 2 percent in 2013, even if other tax cuts eventually are restored for most people.

That amounts to a $1,000 increase on a person earning $50,000 per year

$50,000 per year are Obama’s new wealthy?

schnirt

What’s funniest to me is watching the left demean those whose money they so desperately need (in the form of taxes).

There’s only one way to get us out of debt and few, among us, are willing to accept the challenge. It’s all about letting someone else carry the load.

Kicking the can down the road…delaying the inevitable.

Stoooooopid!

Cutty

January 2nd, 2013
1:39 pm

Kyle is boo hoping but I don’t see him blaming Boner for that ridiculous Plan B, or for the Cons for soundly rejecting it. Instead of hammering out a better alternative w the President, Boner went rogue in Republispeak. To think you Cons would get a better deal after that was a fairytale. And w the Sequester still looming in a couple months, you Cons will get rolled on the debt ceiling talks too. Cons voted to raise taxes and you lemmings blame Obama. He couldn’t have done it wo them.

Kyle Wingfield

January 2nd, 2013
1:41 pm

Just Saying @ 1:32: I should have been clearer, but I was referring to entitlement spending.

Ray

January 2nd, 2013
1:42 pm

Finn McCool at 1:10 quoting Robert Reich has it right: the primary problem facing our economy is that median income is flat or going backwards. So Americans are pissed that they can’t get ahead or move forward at all. The problem that this fiscal cliff situation was supposedly all about — taxes and the deficit – really has very little to do with the real problem of stagnant/falling median incomes. So all this drama and time and energy regarding the fiscal cliff is not addressing the real problem. Oh well.

MarkV

January 2nd, 2013
1:46 pm

Kyle Wingfield @ 1:31 pm

Kyle,
Perhaps I should have called it a problem of syntax, but apparently you still would not have seen anything wrong in the construction “raise taxes and fail to cut spending from what they were just a day earlier.” Cut spending from what they were …?

As for the argument that that burden of spending falls on the taxpayer, you criticism that I addressed was about the title of the bill. Would you still argue that any bill, such as one that would simply cut taxes for everybody, still should not have been called “tax relief,” if it did not cut spending? That is preposterous. And it I equally preposterous to argue that since that relief is not “complete,” it is not a relief.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
1:47 pm

Finn McCool at 1:10 quoting Robert Reich has it right: the primary problem facing our economy is that median income is flat or going backwards. So Americans are pissed that they can’t get ahead or move forward at all.

Yeah, so let’s hit the employers with giant tax increases and make them feel like handing out a bunch of raises.

How much more faulty can the thinking get?

BW

January 2nd, 2013
1:48 pm

Kyle

With all respect, Congress specifically the House is responsible for originating spending bills so I’m not entirely sure why the President is even in that part of the conversation. The legislative branch is completely broken and has abdicated much of its governing responsibilities to the other two branches. Case A is this fiscal “cliff”: The Speaker of the House opting for a “Plan B” which he has to pull off the table for lack of party support. In the coming months I believe that if Republicans realize we are not undoing the Great Society and Dems realize that entitlement programs will have fundamental change to ensure their continuity for the next generations, then something can be done long term on spending without needlessly cratering the economy by not raising the debt ceiling on already incurred bills. On long term tax reform, I’m actually not sure what the Republicans are truly after in terms of an actual bill. Please enlighten us. The flat tax idea doesn’t seem to have much vocal support at this point so I assume this will be about loopholes and deductions. Finally on discretionary spending from portions of defense related spending to the farm bill to other sacred cows….that’s a battle that has to be fought but won’t be. Focus on mandatory spending and the tax code first as that is where the bulk of the money is spent and can be saved.

John

January 2nd, 2013
1:48 pm

The only reason the 2% SS payroll tax cut was not extended is due to Republican opposition. President Obama and the Democrats wanted to extend it. Republicans wanted it to expire (which helps the middle class) while at the same time was fighting tooth and nail to extend the tax cuts for the wealthy. Their reason, according to them…tax cuts to the wealthy creates jobs but payroll taxes cuts do not. Once again Republicans wanted to protect the wealthy while screwing the middle class.

Just Saying..

January 2nd, 2013
1:49 pm

“…but I was referring to entitlement spending.”

That’s ok. Only trolls nitpick when venting is so throughly needed…and deserved.

blackbird13

January 2nd, 2013
1:50 pm

As one who saw that the GOP had no place to go on this after losing the (fiscal cliff) bet that they could beat Obama in the election, I am still surprised that they ended up allowing tax hikes on upper income earners while getting essentially zero spending cuts in return. How did that happen?!

Uh Huh

January 2nd, 2013
1:50 pm

Dear God,

In 2013, do we have to read hate rantings of

Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!! for our president who has

4 MORE YEARS?

How long can he beat that dead horse?

BTW, we put up with many white REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS

and we dealt with it and accepted our fate.

Let Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!! know that his hate

WILL NOT AND CANNOT change REALITY.

OBAMA TIL 2016 :)

Ray

January 2nd, 2013
1:53 pm

Yes, Aesop, I would expect the usual trickle down economics response from the hard right. Bush’s tax cuts, lowering taxes and federal revenue to the lowest it has been as a percent of GDP since 1950, have been in place 10 years now and median income has remained flat or gone backward a little. I’d say that pretty much refutes the notion that lowering taxes on the rich, which is where most of the Bush tax cuts went, has the effect of improving incomes from workers earning the median income. But keep on saying it over and over if you think that will make the trickle down fairy make it magically come true.

independent thinker

January 2nd, 2013
1:55 pm

Oh so Kyle at 1:12 is now a champion of the little folks and complaining that the payroll tax cut was not renewed so as to bankrupt social security?

I hear Joe Biden brought some bolt cutters up to Congress to remove the chains the Republicans were about to put around the middle class by letting the Bush tax cuts run out-smiling the whole way.

Kyle Wingfield

January 2nd, 2013
1:56 pm

MarkV @ 1:46: Taxes + spending = they. I was talking about both relative to what they were before. And as for the relief, I noted that neither element of relief — lower taxes or lower spending — was present. So, as usual, you’re choosing to ignore some things I wrote and to be pedantic about the rest.

Kyle Wingfield

January 2nd, 2013
1:56 pm

All of which reminds me why I once stopped responding to MarkV at all. Maybe I’ll resume that habit.

Thomas heyward Jr

January 2nd, 2013
1:58 pm

“Fiscal cliff ‘deal’ represents everything wrong with Washington”
.
Yea……….but merely mentioning peacefully parting ways with the DC Cesspool(seccession) causes the chronic Republican-voting Wingfield-types to whine.
.
weird.

Kyle Wingfield

January 2nd, 2013
2:00 pm

BW @ 1:48: Oh, come on. Do you really think the House was going to produce this kind of bill and send it off through the legislative process without consulting with the president? When Boehner did try that, Obama immediately issued a veto threat. Should Obama have stayed quiet until and unless the bill made it through the Senate?

As for the rest: Which Republicans do you hear talking about “undoing the Great Society”? Almost all the talk, and all the talk from the leadership, involves modifying those programs. And for long-term tax reform, the GOP mantra has been pretty consistent: Broaden the base and lower rates. That was Romney’s line, that was Boehner’s line and, fwiw, that was the Bowles-Simpson line, too.

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 2nd, 2013
2:01 pm

I would have been in favor of just returning to Clinton era tax rates.

Seemed to work just fine back then.

Uh Huh

January 2nd, 2013
2:03 pm

@blackbird13

January 2nd, 2013
1:50 pm
As one who saw that the GOP had no place to go on this after losing the (fiscal cliff) bet that they could beat Obama in the election, I am still surprised that they ended up allowing tax hikes on upper income earners while getting essentially zero spending cuts in return. How did that happen?!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

“How did that happen?!”

If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself

knocked down.

But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can

get up again.

A man flattened by conformity stays down for good.

The CONS are “down for good.”

Kyle Wingfield

January 2nd, 2013
2:03 pm

independent thinker @ 1:55: I have said all along that a temporary payroll tax cut was a bad idea because it didn’t appreciably change incentives to hire or work, and it wasn’t large enough to stimulate the economy. What I am saying today is that we ought to be honest about what’s happening with taxes. They’re going up for most people, because of the payroll tax expiration.

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 2nd, 2013
2:08 pm

Which Republicans do you hear talking about “undoing the Great Society”?

Anyone in the Tea Party which de facto controls the Republican party.

Broaden the base and lower rates.

This is the same trickle down BS that has failed and only benefits the wealthy

Pass, It just never trickles.

@@

January 2nd, 2013
2:08 pm

The only reason the 2% SS payroll tax cut was not extended is due to Republican opposition.

You don’t say…

href=”http://www.rollcall.com/news/democrats_divided_over_payroll_tax_cut_extension-219705-1.html”>Democrats Divided Over Payroll Tax Cut Extension

Kyle Wingfield

January 2nd, 2013
2:08 pm

Ray @ 1:53: “Bush’s tax cuts” did not lower “federal revenue to the lowest it has been as a percent[age] of GOP since 1950.” As you noted immediately afterward, they’ve been in place for 10 years; for the first seven fiscal years, revenues averaged 17.4% of GDP, compared to a 17.9% average from 1946 to 2001.

The reason revenues have been at historic lows as a share of the economy since then is that so many people have been out of work. It is entirely unclear to me how raising taxes is going to change that.

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 2nd, 2013
2:13 pm

The problem wasn’t the Bush tax cuts.

It was cutting taxes during war time. Unprecedented in US History.

Cutting taxes along side a spending spree are disastrous.

Just like W’s presidency.

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
2:14 pm

Kyle

Why are you being so selective @ 2:08? What has been the average since they have been in place? Seems many want to slice and dice the data to meet their narrative and cut off what doesn’t

independent thinker

January 2nd, 2013
2:15 pm

Kyle – I thought your mentor, Mr.Romney , said the little folks do not pay any taxes and are worthless scum. Are you admitting some of them are paying payroll taxes and we should worry about their income? What about the suffering and oppressed rich folks who will no longer buy up American Companies and have the workers train their Chinese replacements? Aren’t you concerned?

I just can’t figure out why a solid upright conservative and deficit hawk and champion of the richlike Paul Ryan would vote for the Biden compromise bill with no amendments? Could it be the same reason he voted for unfunded Medicare part D in 2004?
(ie. closet liberal who has been beaten down by Joe B. once too many)???

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 2nd, 2013
2:15 pm

Again I think we should have just let tax rates go back to Clinton era rates.

Somebody has to pay for all the debt Republican administrations have run up over the years.

Those bombs we drop aren’t free people.

Glenn

January 2nd, 2013
2:16 pm

Everyone with a pay check is going to take home less . Funny that people have talked about the rich getting soaked by Obama & the Dems . If he wanted to go after the rich he would raise capital gains tax and close many a tax shelter . How many of the very wealthy even get a pay check ? The increase on the above 250k crowd is nothing but window dressing .

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 2nd, 2013
2:17 pm

Are you admitting some of them are paying payroll taxes and we should worry about their income?

But I thought poor people dont pay any taxes.

Ray

January 2nd, 2013
2:18 pm

Kyle:

Since the Bush tax cuts have been in place, total federal tax revenue as a perecent of GDP has dropped from 20.6% in 2000, or 19.5% in 2001, down to down to 15.1% (2009), 15.1% (2010), 15.4% (2011), and 15.8% (2012). The last time the total federal tax revenue as a percent of GDP was in the 15% or lower range was 1949-50.

So tax revenue would appeasr to be at an all-time low for the last 60+ years, and has been dropping down to that for the last 10 years of the Bush tax cuts, and at the same time median income for average Americans has been flat or going backwards a little. I think you can conclude from that that tax cuts don’t lead to rising incomes for average working Americans.

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
2:20 pm

Well Ray, it was 17.4 if you conveniently look at the data that meets the depicted narrative.

Karl Rove

January 2nd, 2013
2:24 pm

Those Dems think they pulled one over on us. Just wait we are going to shut this whole thing down when it comes time for a vote on the debt ceiling. Them Rich folks will pay us well to show who is boss.
After all most Americans now get to enjoy the Bush tax cuts even longer while the country goes further in the red and the rich stop trickling down all those jobs.. If ole Dick Cheney got the call to mediate this mess, the rich would have gotten zero tax liability like Romney wanted. Then there would be millions of new jobs (Maybe not in this country).
Remember if you pass gas, blame the Democrats in the room.

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 2nd, 2013
2:27 pm

he would raise capital gains tax and close many a tax shelter

They did get raised.

From 15 percent to 20

Did I miss something ?

joe

January 2nd, 2013
2:27 pm

Seems anyone regardless of party who voted yes for this bill which raises taxes $41 for every $1 is spending cuts needs to be voted out next election and replaced by reps/sens who will actually cut spending by at least 15% across the board (as a starting place). That is the only road to recovery for our nation.

BW

January 2nd, 2013
2:27 pm

Kyle

Of course the Republican House would consult a Democratic President on such a bill. My point is that the policy coming out of the House is so diametrically opposed to Democratic interests that they have no recourse but to talk of veto or better simply vote it down in the Senate. As far as tax reform there’s been alot of bumper stickers but no substantive bill for tax reform. I still haven’t heard about any loopholes being named at any point during the election or immediately after. The greater point is that the House should not have to threaten the credit rating of the United States to pass a bill that lowers spending but does not go the Ryan way on entitlements. I do not believe one will sway people to their ideology by holding our creditworthiness at stake to make a point. Democrats are not as intransigent on entitlements at the end of the day as the current discourse suggests.

Kyle Wingfield

January 2nd, 2013
2:27 pm

Politico @ 2:14: Before WW2, revenues were relatively low and derived from relatively few people. If you take revenues as a percentage of GDP going back to 1930, which is as far back as the Office of Management and Budget reports that particular statistic, the historical average before the Bush tax cuts hit drops to 15.7% of GDP.

That better suits my argument, but it isn’t intellectually honest because the tax system was so different in the 1930s and early 1940s.

It is common practice, from my observations, for economists to look at post-WW2 averages for both revenues and spending (because spending as a share of GDP was so uncharacteristically high during the war). That’s all I’ve done here.

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 2nd, 2013
2:27 pm

Dow up 230 points today.

This economy is ready to explode if Congress will just get out of the way.

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
2:31 pm

Kyle

Understand what you are saying, but you posted the GDP percentage for the 1st seven years the cuts were in place, not the total time they were in place.

In terms of comparing the post WW2, I am in total agreement. It just seems self serving to not look at the average from the entire time the cuts were in place.

I understand Bush was not the President the entire time they cuts were in place, however I also understand that the rates were not changed until last night.

Kyle Wingfield

January 2nd, 2013
2:31 pm

Ray @ 2:18: You “conveniently” — to use Politico’s wrong-headed word (see my 2:27) — omit the years in which the facts don’t fit your preferred narrative.

More to the point: Are you suggesting Americans could expect the median income to rise again if everyone’s taxes had gone up yesterday as scheduled? Or do you think maybe taxes aren’t the only thing that matters? (And, yes, too many conservatives oversimplify the tax issue, too. But you will never see me saying taxes are the only thing that matters.)

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
2:32 pm

Median household income has more than kept up with inflation since Bush took control of fiscal policy during the 2001 near-recession, growing 1.6% higher in constant 2007 dollars to $50,233 in 2007 from $49,454 in 2001

So much for that lie.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
2:33 pm

I am fine with the middle class paying a little more.

You have to remember – not EVERYONE is worse off than they were last year or the year before. Some of us in the middle are better off. We can chip in a little more to help get the economy rolling again.

Ray

January 2nd, 2013
2:34 pm

Yes, Kyle, I agree it makes more sense to look at total tax revenues as a percent iof GDP since WWII. But as I pointed out above, total tax revenues are now lower as a percent of GDP (in the 15% range) than they have been since 1949-50.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
2:35 pm

Are you suggesting Americans could expect the median income to rise again if everyone’s taxes had gone up yesterday as scheduled?

David Ricardo would say “Uh yeah. Duh…”

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
2:35 pm

Great headline:

“The GOP Clown Car Crashes, Again”

Just Saying..

January 2nd, 2013
2:35 pm

Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
January 2nd, 2013-1:05 pm
“What lies will all involved tell us and each other in order to justify passing the NEXT debt limit increase?”

We’ll see. It’s kinda like a Lab Practical…

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
2:36 pm

Kyle

My point is that it didn’t meet your narrative to provide the percentage for the entire time the cuts were in place, so you cut them off, which had a direct impact on keeping the average higher than the entire time they were in place.

And even if you take the 17.4, which is lower than the post WW@ average, it took a housing bubble, which was a huge factor in the economy to keep it at a below average level for the time frame you presented.

But thanks for the exchange and basically saying there are more variables besides tax rates.

Kyle Wingfield

January 2nd, 2013
2:36 pm

Politico @ 2:31: What I was doing was noting that revenues as a share of GDP were dramatically different from 2002-2008 than from 2009 to present, which suggests the tax rates are not solely or even mostly responsible for the low levels of revenue in the more recent years. After all, if the rates were the same during that whole time, and if the rates are the problem, then shouldn’t revenues have been below 16% of GDP the whole time?

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
2:39 pm

Ray

January 2nd, 2013
2:40 pm

Kyle at 2:31: No, I don’t think median incomes will necessarily rise if taxes a raised. That was the point of my original post at 1:42 — all this fussing about tweaking the tax rates (or the deficit!) doesn’t do anything to address the real problem of flat or falling median incomes.

Centrist

January 2nd, 2013
2:41 pm

I can’t get too worked up over resuming the third of Social Security payroll taxes after they were stupidly suspended for 2 years. I also am not worked up over a less than 5% added income tax bracket for taxable income above $450K (and slight increase on capital gains for “high income earners”), especially since it now removes most of the tax equation with spending coming under 3 March deadlines:

Debt ceiling, sequestration, another continuing budget resolution unless/until the Senate passes a budget.

Sure, the brinksmanship will probably only get a little with more in spending cuts and kicking the can further down the road, but spending (and maybe tax reform) will be the majority of the focus for the rest of 2013.

td

January 2nd, 2013
2:42 pm

Finn McCool (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
2:33 pm

I am fine with the middle class paying a little more.

You have to remember – not EVERYONE is worse off than they were last year or the year before. Some of us in the middle are better off. We can chip in a little more to help get the economy rolling again.

Please tell us what in this bill is going to get the “economy rolling again”?

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
2:42 pm

Kyle

I didn’t state that you did. I was merely pointing out that if you took the average for the entire time it would be lower than just the 1st seven years.

Just seemed self serving that’s all. My apologies if that wasn’t your intent, but that is how it came across in my opinion

Thanks again for the exchagne.

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
2:44 pm

“Please tell us what in this bill is going to get the “economy rolling again”?”

Tell us what the intent of the bill was? While it is nothing special, you have a lot of Republicans in the House and Senate to contact to express your dissatisfaction.

td

January 2nd, 2013
2:49 pm

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
2:44 pm

“Please tell us what in this bill is going to get the “economy rolling again”?”

Tell us what the intent of the bill was? While it is nothing special, you have a lot of Republicans in the House and Senate to contact to express your dissatisfaction.

My Congressman (Tom Graves) did not buy into this farce of a bill and Saxby has already heard form me and probably many others about what we think of his vote.

The title of the bill is “Tax relief act”. Where is the tax relief and why did the bill not only increase taxes on 77% of the population but also added $4 trillion to the debt?

@@

January 2nd, 2013
2:50 pm

Dow up 230 points today.

I’m also amused by those who cheer on Wall Street when they’re not lambasting them.

I’m inclined to agree with Centrist. Only thing missing were the loopholes and credits. That’s how some get their foot in the door of OUR White House while we’re only allowed an obscured look through the keyhole.

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
2:54 pm

I’m sure Saxby answered the phone or replied to your email himself.

Saxby will win this state by a huge margin again.

Any man who doesn’t like trial lawyers, draft dodgers and “social programs”, yet hid out in law school during Vietnam and never met many farm subsidies he didn’t love can surely sell you to vote for him again.

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
2:55 pm

“That’s how some get their foot in the door of OUR White House while we’re only allowed an obscured look through the keyhole.”

Birther much?

Don't Tread

January 2nd, 2013
2:56 pm

Taxes raised, spending not cut. Again.

The perfect record remains perfect. (About $16T worth of perfection, to be exact.) They better not howl too loudly about China manipulating the value of its currency any more, or the Chinese might just oblige, and suddenly one yuang becomes worth about $100 overnight.

Be careful what you wish for…you might get it.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
2:57 pm

Anybody with half of a brain knows that the Dow is up because there are obozobucks floating around everywhere and our currency is being devalued.

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
2:58 pm

Aesop

Sounds great, but markets were up world wide

But keep swinging little guy.

curious

January 2nd, 2013
3:00 pm

What cuts are the GOP proposing?

Bruno

January 2nd, 2013
3:01 pm

Seems anyone regardless of party who voted yes for this bill which raises taxes $41 for every $1 is spending cuts needs to be voted out next election and replaced by reps/sens who will actually cut spending by at least 15% across the board

The simple fact that no one seems to be mentioning is that federal revenues have never been high enough to support the current level of spending. Yet the Dems can’t bring themselves to admit that we have a spending problem. The rich just aren’t paying enough. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

@@

January 2nd, 2013
3:03 pm

Politico:

Birther much?

Only one…a daughter.

If you asking whether I believe Obama is American born, the answer is YES…I always have.

If you’re just being a smarta$$, you can kiss mine.

The Congressional Research Service said there are more than 200 tax expenditures, totaling $1.1 trillion in revenue that the government otherwise would have collected this year. That sum is larger than the projected deficit for the year.

Tax expenditures or squandered revenue? I’m of the opinion it’s the latter.

Centrist

January 2nd, 2013
3:03 pm

td posted “Please tell us what in this bill is going to get the ‘economy rolling again’?”

Obviously nothing. Government does very little to help the economy, but can and has done a lot to hurt it. Deficits and debt are the worst offenders, followed by too many and unnecessary regulations, rewarding cronies and special interests. The current domestic natural gas and oil finds are boosting the economy in spite of the Obama’s administration efforts to them back with more regulations, halting the Keystone Pipeline, and uneconomic subsidies for alternative energy. Coal use worldwide is increasing and the U.S. has vast reserves also being (temporarily) held back by the administration.

If government spending and regulations are reduced, the U.S. economy may not remain as stagnant as Europe and Japan.

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
3:04 pm

“If you’re just being a smarta$$, you can kiss mine.”

hahahahahahah, a church going Christian I presume

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
3:13 pm

Aesop

Sounds great, but markets were up world wide

But keep swinging little guy.

So obozo raised taxes on the world?

@@

January 2nd, 2013
3:13 pm

…a church going Christian I presume

One that’s not afraid to turn the tables on ‘ya.

As much as you’d like, I won’t get into a discussion of my faith with you or anyone. It’s a personal relationship between He and I.

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
3:18 pm

Aesop

Based on that uninformed post of yours, you tell me?

Politico

January 2nd, 2013
3:18 pm

@@

That’s what I thought. You were a great witness at that moment. “He” was smiling

Bruno

January 2nd, 2013
3:19 pm

If any of you Libs can move past your post-election gloating, here’s a nice chart which summarizes federal income vs. federal expenditures from 1940 to present.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

The bottom line is that spending has exploded the past 4 years while revenue has been in the tank. Yet you fish couldn’t wait to reelect the losers who got us into this predicament.

old timer

January 2nd, 2013
3:22 pm

Good article…..I think we all loose…

fair and balanced

January 2nd, 2013
3:24 pm

Kyle- Your are right . Mitt is now going to have almost a 25% capital gains rate on his investments and a cap on deductions.He probably is going to pack up and move all those jobs he and the vulture capitalists were planning to create off to China which he would never have done otherwise. Can he still deduct the expenses of the horse???????

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
3:24 pm

Nah, politico, I actually believe it has something to do with Japan, China and the others easing their monetary policies but, then again, I don’t believe in high tax fairies either.

Hillbilly D

January 2nd, 2013
3:27 pm

This deal is just the basic can kicking that I expected. Come March, we’ll be right back here, playing the same ol’ game again.

Numbers-R-US

January 2nd, 2013
3:37 pm

If only the Republicans had pushed through spending cuts to go along with their tax cuts in 01 and 03, Kyle wouldn’t have near as much to complain about. :lol:

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
3:49 pm

Please, Obama, quit bringing this pain on us:

The Dow Jones Industrial Average climbed 7.3 percent in 2012, the fourth straight year in which the leading index maked gains. The Wall Street Journal (subscription required) reports that the index is up an impressive 100.15 percent since its great recession low in March 2009.

ohohohohohohohoh whoa is me.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
3:52 pm

If only the Republicans had pushed through spending cuts to go along with their tax cuts in 01 and 03

Cons like that “let’s spend money and NOT collect taxes to pay for it” and then turn around to the Libs who like to “spend money AND collect taxes to pay for it” and call us out on it as irresponsible. LOL. Sheeples

East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)

January 2nd, 2013
3:58 pm

A few thoughts:

1) The temporary SS payroll reduction from 6.2% to 4.2% was a bad idea. The difference was made up with money from the general fund which in turn was borrowed thus adding to the debt. It should have never been reduced in the first place.

2) I had a friend when I lived in Florida who was a judge. He always knew he made a correct ruling in a highly contested matter when both lawyers were unhappy with the ruling. So when I hear both parties griping about the fiscal cliff deal, it tells me it was a good compromise. The revenue bill passed is as good a bi-partisan compromise as could be expected given the dis-function of House GOP leadership. It used to be said that trying to lead Dems was like herding cats, but it seems that applies to Republicans now.

3) While entitlements should be on the table for spending cuts, so too should defense.

4) John Boehner needs to be replaced as Speaker, but I fear any replacement would come from the Tea party extreme fringe and only make matters worse. Boehner’s leadership position is considerably weaker now than it has ever been.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
4:03 pm

Man, these libs, they make it easy -

The all time high on the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) was 14,164 on October 9, 2007.

They’re such fools.

And, because I know they are furiously blinking away at their computer screens as they read this, I will endeavor to help them out. Yep, the highest Dow eva was under evil Bushie!?!?! How can this be?!?!? He must have been doing really, really, really good, according to your logic.

Thanks, duh.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
4:04 pm

Yep, Obozo almost has the Dow back where it was prior to the Dodd-Frank-CRA recession. And he only had to triple the money supply to do it.

@@

January 2nd, 2013
4:06 pm

Among the many things I did not know…

John Maynard Keynes was a eugenicist of the highest order!!??!!

Makes sense given the left’s love of his economic policies.

Men have been taught that their first concern is to relieve the suffering of others. But suffering is a disease. Should one come upon it, one tries to give relief and assistance. To make that the highest test of virtue is to make suffering the most important part of life. Then man must wish to see others suffer — in order that he may be virtuous. – Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead

I’ve never read “The Fountainhead” but, since navigating right, believe it to be true.

Every knight in shining armor NEEDS their damsels in distress. An unhealthy symbiotic relationship of sorts or sorting, if preferred.

sick…sick…sick

Hillbilly D

January 2nd, 2013
4:12 pm

Every knight in shining armor NEEDS their damsels in distress.

I don’t claim to be a knight, in shining armor or otherwise, but those damsels in distress can become a pain in the butt, fairly quick. (IW&SH)

Dunwoody Granny

January 2nd, 2013
4:13 pm

One difference between $400K and $200K is that $200K is uncomfortably close to the $174K salary of representatives and senators, while $400K is … exactly the base salary for the president.

Irishmafia116

January 2nd, 2013
4:17 pm

@independent thinker 2:15 -As usual liberals ignore the facts and make up their own versions of what was said -As Romney accurately stated and been verified countless times by the CBO -the 47% pay zero FEDERAL INCOME TAXES -not SS, not state, not medicaid, not local, not city, property or any of the hundreds of other taxes -the FEDERAL INCOME TAXES that are paid by those who actually work not like the EIC people who not only don’t pay federal income tax but get a check back from the government -essentially for not having to pay

Hopeful

January 2nd, 2013
4:17 pm

Taxes is getting on my nerves all the government dose is raise taxes
and dose nothing put filled their pockets they are to have a couple weeks
living in the Projects and serve food to the homeless get out here with the middle class
folks and work live on that pay check ok

Bruno

January 2nd, 2013
4:18 pm

If only the Republicans had pushed through spending cuts to go along with their tax cuts in 01 and 03, Kyle wouldn’t have near as much to complain about.

In case you missed it, Numbers-R-Us, here’s a link which summarized federal revenue and spending.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

During the Bush years, annual spending deficits averaged about $250 B. Since Obama took office, we’ve been in the hole $1.3 T to $1.4 T every single year.

Are you sure that Republican fiscal policies are to blame here??

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
4:20 pm

Is Boehner the damsel in distress? He can turn on the waterworks like a legendary character.

Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

January 2nd, 2013
4:25 pm

Are you sure that Republican fiscal policies are to blame here??

Yes. Bush conveniently left out the cost of the Iraq war.

Did you think that was free ?

medicine man

January 2nd, 2013
4:25 pm

A chief selling point for ObamaCare was that it would lower the cost of health insurance. President Obama famously promised that the health law would lower premiums by an average of about $2,500 annually per family. HA HA LOL -anyone on this planet claim this happened?

Numbers-R-US

January 2nd, 2013
4:29 pm

In case you misread, Bruno, I clearly stated “If only the Republicans had pushed through spending cuts to go along with their tax cuts in 01 and 03, Kyle wouldn’t have near as much to complain about.”

Man up and own it (for Kyle), if you can. Then again… :lol:

number cruncher

January 2nd, 2013
4:31 pm

Washington Post 5/12
One common way to measure federal spending is to compare it to the size of the overall U.S. economy. That at least puts the level into context, helping account for population growth, inflation and other factors that affect spending. Here’s what the White House’s own budget documents show about spending as a percentage of the U.S. economy (gross domestic product):

2008: 20.8 percent

2009: 25.2 percent

2010: 24.1 percent

2011: 24.1 percent

2012: 24.3 percent

2013: 23.3 percent

In the post-war era, federal spending as a percentage of the U.S. economy has hovered around 20 percent, give or take a couple of percentage points. Under Obama, it has hit highs not seen since the end of World War II — completely the opposite of the point asserted by Carney. Part of this, of course, is a consequence of the recession, but it is also the result of a sustained higher level of spending.

We sent our analysis to Carney but did not get a response. (For another take, Daniel Mitchell of the Cato Institute has an interesting tour through the numbers, isolating various spending categories. For instance, he says debt payments should be excluded from the analysis because that is the result of earlier spending decisions by other presidents.)

UPDATE: The Associated Press also dug into the numbers and came to the same conclusion as we did. “The problem with that rosy claim is that the Wall Street bailout is part of the calculation. The bailout ballooned the 2009 budget just before Obama took office, making Obama’s 2010 results look smaller in comparison. And as almost $150 billion of the bailout was paid back during Obama’s watch, the [Nutting] analysis counted them as government spending cuts,” the AP said. “It also assumes Obama had less of a role setting the budget for 2009 than he really did.”

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
4:32 pm

Bush didn’t need to cut spending. His deficits were one-fifth the size of Obozo’s.

dcb

January 2nd, 2013
4:32 pm

Wonderful indeed! And the sad part is that 52 percent of our electorate will believe all the garbage that is thrown out by the news media – which in itself is interesting if you read or listen to it not for the content (which is always open to question) but for the angle or spin that it represents. That is really fun, folks – if you can get by the anger or feelings of confusion surrounding the entire issue in the first place.

Bruno

January 2nd, 2013
4:33 pm

Yes. Bush conveniently left out the cost of the Iraq war.

From “Yahoo Answers”:

“Not being part of the regular budget is not the same thing as “unaccounted for.” It was presented, tracked and accounted for as supplemental spending as all things not intended to be PERMANENT always are.”

Bottom line Cheesy is that your man Obama has made Bush seem like a fiscally conservative President.

BTW, I’m not expecting an intelligent answer from you. Your brain is only able to regurgitate empty talking points which were debunked years ago.

Numbers-R-US

January 2nd, 2013
4:46 pm

Republicans should have implemented programs back in 01 and 03 that would cut unemployment benefits, food stamps, medicaid, DoD, etc., spending whenever tax revenues fall if they truly wanted their “dynamic scoring” to work. That way when the private sector dumped those 8 million plus jobs during the Bush Great Recession, those austerity measures would have been automatically implemented and the rise in deficit spending would have been averted. Republicans have no one but themselves to blame for their lack of soulless foresight.

MarkV

January 2nd, 2013
4:58 pm

Kyle Wingfield @ 1:56 pm

“All of which reminds me why I once stopped responding to MarkV at all. Maybe I’ll resume that habit.”

You will be much better off, Kyle, if you stop responding, when you are unable to come with anything better than piling up one ridiculous argument after another.

Although I commented specifically about the Kyle’s sentence in which tried to ridicule the title of the bill “American Taxpayer Relief Act” because it “raise(d) taxes and fail(ed) to cut spending, it goes well beyond just the wording. The whole article is essentially whining that the Republicans did not get what they wanted. And Kyle’s arguments are so ludicrous, it is laughable.

Take the one Kyle came with in his response: “And as for the relief, I noted that neither element of relief — lower taxes or lower spending — was present.” So the bill was, as the title says, about “tax relief,” but according to Kyle, lowering spending is an element of tax relief. One more time, does Kyle even understand the meaning of the words he writes?

The main part of bill is what it says, a tax relief for most Americans. It would be better if there were a bill addressing all parts of the problem, including spending, but to whine because it addressed only a part of the problem is ridiculous.

(As for the grammar, it was only a very minor point in my original comment (I put “grammar” in parentheses), but it is still remarkable when a journalist sees nothing wrong with writing, in effect, “raise taxes … from what they were” (ok) AND “CUT spending …from what they were” (???) [my emphasis], and then pretends that is not what he wrote.)

East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)

January 2nd, 2013
5:05 pm

“Not being part of the regular budget is not the same thing as “unaccounted for.” It was presented, tracked and accounted for as supplemental spending as all things not intended to be PERMANENT always are.”

While the spending on the 2 wars fought during the Bush years may not be considered “PERMANENT”, the resulting debt is still real and most likely permanent. Just like my Christmas spending is not part of my regular budget, should I take unpaid days off in December knowing the credit card bills are coming in January?

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 2nd, 2013
5:09 pm

Only in America do we celebrate not solving the problem (debt) we have been debating for the past two years. This problem was turned into just another “crisis” which Barry didn’t want to waste, as he attempts to turn America into some Obamanist dream of his. The “solution” he crafted had nothing to do with the problem of deficits and debt, it actually added to the problem.

America suffers a terrible 4 Trillion dollar wound and Barry spikes the football like he had saved us from the Huns. He is dishonest, dis-ingenious, and deceptive. Many of us know that he is that way and expect it, but it seems he lies just as willingly to his base. They parrot everything he says about a balanced approach, how he wants to bring down the deficit, how he wants to fix medicare and social security, and how he wants to work with the GOP, and yet never hold him accountable, when he pulls his usual bait and switch.

Some in the GOP rolled over like pet dogs and let this farce happen. America is worse off today than yesterday.

independent thinker

January 2nd, 2013
5:15 pm

Rafe Hollister- Sure must get to you and the cons when that Black man in the White House pulls one over on a bunch of white boys. Especially when he uses his white offense team including Joe Biden and Bill Clinton.
What happened to your star quarterback, Mr. Ryan? some one drug him into voting yes? Old Joe picks your wallet and then hands it back without the cash and credit cards and then demands that you smile and say thank you.

Rick in Grayson

January 2nd, 2013
5:23 pm

When is OBAMA going to show us the balance in his “balanced” approach?

JamVet

January 2nd, 2013
5:28 pm

Welcome back and Happy New Year, Kyle!

Here is to hoping that 2013 is as awful for the neocons as 2012 was! (According to Mssrs. King and Christie, it’s sure starting out that way!)

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 2nd, 2013
5:29 pm

IT

Yeah, that is the first thing I thought of this AM, when I woke up 4 T dollars more in debt and our country getting more like Greece, blame the black man. (Sarcasm)

It is his ideology that has put us on the road to third world status not the color of his skin. Yes, he has many light skinned sycophants that go along to get along with the man at the helm, and they are just as harmful for the welfare of the country as he is. He is the one that constantly fools his followers with his bait and switch tactics. Maybe someday they will learn, to watch what he does and not what he says.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
5:47 pm

Rick in Grayson: When is OBAMA going to show us the balance in his “balanced” approach?
——————

Right after all the bars make good on their promise of “free beer”–tomorrow.

Dusty

January 2nd, 2013
5:57 pm

Kyle really got this one right. This fiscal-cliff-deal represents everything wrong.

Lower taxes? NO.

Decreased spending? NO.

Those are the basic problems and they were not solved

Obama failed. The House of Representatives failed. The Senate failed. America citizens were railed, nailed and failed.

You can present history, graphs, wall street, discrimination,religion, insults,references, the whole shebang. But it is still one big mess presided over by abysmal leadership and snarling “supporters”.

“Give me liberty or give me death!” said Patrick Henry. Our government representatives seem to have chosen death by suffocation to the economy and by debt submersion. If this try doesn’t get us then the next try will be in the first political snow fall of new flakes. .

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
5:58 pm

A chief selling point for ObamaCare was that it would lower the cost of health insurance. President Obama famously promised that the health law would lower premiums by an average of about $2,500 annually per family. HA HA LOL -anyone on this planet claim this happened?

Maybe we wait and look after several years have passed, eh, sport? Your New Years resolution of 2011 was to lose 200 pounds. Did you check back in March of 2011 to see if you had met that goal and then, after you found you’d only lost 20 pounds grown despondent?

seriously

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
5:58 pm

independent thinker: Sure must get to you and the cons when that Black man in the White House pulls one over on a bunch of white boys.
—————

He just made Our President Bush’s tax cuts permanent for 99% of all Americans.

I’m all broken up about that.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
6:01 pm

Finn: Maybe we wait and look after several years have passed, eh, sport?
———————-

How are those predictions on the unemployment rate with and without Obozo’s stimulus working out, now that several years have passed?

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 2nd, 2013
6:06 pm

“balanced” approach

define “balanced”?

MarkV

January 2nd, 2013
6:07 pm

Dusty @ 5:57 pm

Why so much gloom and doom? Is that how you want to start a new year?

Dusty

January 2nd, 2013
6:09 pm

Lil Barry,,

OUR PRESIDENT BUSH! How I miss that man. Honest, straight forward and totally concerned on protecting and promoting our country in every way.

Now we get this mess! Yes, citizens, ask and you shall receive. and look what you asked for. Not me. I knew better. I’m not Dem!

Dusty

January 2nd, 2013
6:15 pm

MarkV

I’m expecting a happy New Year (in about four years). The truth hurts but I say it anyway.

But drift away on your bubble of happiness and let the good times roll!

Did you get any “good” Christmas gifts? .I did but Santa forgot my mink coat. Awwww!!

Hootie Who

January 2nd, 2013
6:19 pm

“I’m expecting a happy New Year (in about four years).”

When the next Democrat President is elected?

nathan's political arsonist

January 2nd, 2013
6:20 pm

i knew the death rattles of the teatards would be entertaining, but this is much better than expected. wait till the changing demographics turn this state blue – it’ll really be a hoot to watch them implode

MarkV

January 2nd, 2013
6:22 pm

Dusty @ 6:15 pm

Dusty,

I am glad you are expecting a happy New Year after Hillary is elected (if her health allows). I will let the good times roll even before that.

I got good Christmas gifts, because I did not long for material things. As for your desire for a mink coat, I sure hope you meant a faux one!

Tap Out

January 2nd, 2013
6:26 pm

It’s hard to worry about Washington when the Ga. Gop is nickel and dime taxing (like the new car sale tax) the middle class and lower middle class out of existence here.

yuzeyurbrane

January 2nd, 2013
6:29 pm

Kyle, this is one of your most irrational columns ever. So much so that I wonder if you have thrown away all pretense and are now just operating as a shill for the Tea Party. Surely you are smart enough to be aware that it is President Obama who won the election with a pretty clear mandate re raising taxes on the top 1%? Surely you are aware that it is President Obama who has twice now initiated negotiations for a grand bargain? Surely, you are aware that the House Republicans have killed these negotiations with a my way or the highway attitude both times? Surely you are aware that the House Republicans were the moving force behind the “fiscal cliff” but did nothing in over 500 days to avoid it? Surely you are aware that Wall Street wanted this deal because to not do it would throw the country into another recession or worse? Surely you are aware that almost 2/3d’s of the House Republicans have clearly expressed their willingness to put party ahead of country. Personally, given his electoral mandate, I think President Obama gave far too much to bring these rightwing anarchists aboard. But I understand he did it because he put country ahead of party.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
6:39 pm

yuz – obozo got 9 million fewer votes running against a rich flip flopper from Taxachusetts then he did in 2008 when he ran against a clown that nearly sunk his own aircraft carrier and got his own plane shot down, landed in the arms of a bunch of village women and got his a$$ kicked by the enemy for five years solid.

The only mandate you got was a gay marriage in some of your more freakish blue states.

But I’m glad to see you’re stepping up and owning this impending fiscal disaster, it takes some courage.

JamVet

January 2nd, 2013
6:42 pm

…(McCain) nearly sunk his own aircraft carrier and got his own plane shot down, landed in the arms of a bunch of village women and got his a$$ kicked by the enemy for five years solid.

Ah yes, the sage words of swiftboating white trash…

@@

January 2nd, 2013
6:47 pm

I don’t claim to be a knight, in shining armor or otherwise, but those damsels in distress can become a pain in the butt, fairly quick.

Hillbilly:

Did some damsel pierce your armour or is it just rusty?

(W&S) back at’cha.

MarkV

January 2nd, 2013
6:51 pm

While I do not agree with Aesop’s characterization, it is interesting to see what he thinks about the best the Republican party could offer the nation.

@@

January 2nd, 2013
6:54 pm

AmVet:

Ah yes, the sage words of swiftboating white trash…

I can recall when your leftist friends were typing the same thing. Even went so far as to accuse him of spilling his guts for more comfortable accomodations.

Selective outrage defines you.

JamVet

January 2nd, 2013
6:58 pm

So @@ stands WITH for the swiftboating trash at 6:39.

Color me shocked. Not…

@@

January 2nd, 2013
7:02 pm

Nobel Prize winner, Friedrich A. Hayak — The Pretense of Knowledge

If man is not to do more harm than good in his efforts to improve the social order, he will have to learn that in this, as in all other fields where essential complexity of an organized kind prevails, he cannot acquire the full knowledge which would make mastery of the events possible. He will therefore have to use what knowledge he can achieve, not to shape the results as the craftsman shapes his handiwork, but rather to cultivate a growth by providing the appropriate environment, in the manner in which the gardener does this for his plants. There is danger in the exuberant feeling of ever-growing power which the advance of the physical sciences has engendered and which tempts man to try, “dizzy with success,” to use a characteristic phrase of early communism, to subject not only our natural but also our human environment to the control of a human will. The recognition of the insuperable limits to his knowledge ought indeed to teach the student of society a lesson of humility which should guard him against becoming an accomplice in men’s fatal striving to control society — a striving which makes him not only a tyrant over his fellows, but which may well make him the destroyer of a civilization which no brain has designed but which has grown from the free efforts of millions of individuals.

The truth will set us free.

Uh Huh

January 2nd, 2013
7:02 pm

@Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 2nd, 2013
5:09 pm
Some in the GOP rolled over like pet dogs and let this farce happen. America is worse off today than yesterday.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people,

it is true that most stupid people are conservative.

Who’s the BOZO NOW?

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
7:04 pm

While I do not agree with Aesop’s characterization, it is interesting to see what he thinks about the best the Republican party could offer the nation.

By far and away not the best choices the Republican party had to offer. Not even close. You could call them the best funded by the Republican party, I’d agree with that.

And don’t ask me why I backed them, that illicit ridicule that you are not prepared for. Just look at who you fielded, a wayward socialist that happened to be on the Plantation at just the right time. And was clean and articulate, of course.

Next time we run one of these big government liberal wannabe aisle reachers I’m staying home with the 12 million or so Repugs that did this year. That ain’t an idle threat.

We aren’t liberals no matter how hard we try to be.

getalife

January 2nd, 2013
7:05 pm

Christie told the truth on why Americans hate congress.

As far as the compromise, it was better than expected but the gop lost the election and the people got what they voted for.

Eat your peas cons.

Take your medicine cons.

You lost so deal with it cons.

Uh Huh

January 2nd, 2013
7:07 pm

@Dusty

January 2nd, 2013
6:15 pm
MarkV

Did you get any “good” Christmas gifts? .I did but Santa forgot my mink coat. Awwww!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If you want to LIVE like a CON….VOTE for a DEMOCRAT. :)

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
7:08 pm

it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
—————

Most people who can’t support themselves vote Democrat.

@@

January 2nd, 2013
7:13 pm

AmVet:

You were there as HUGE when your leftist friends went after McCain’s war record. I don’t recall your outrage of THEIR swiftboating.

False indignation defines you, as well.

Uh Huh

January 2nd, 2013
7:15 pm

@Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
7:04 pm
And don’t ask me why I backed them, that illicit ridicule that you are not prepared for. Just look at who you fielded, a wayward socialist that happened to be on the Plantation at just the right time. And was clean and articulate, of course.

We aren’t liberals no matter how hard we try to be.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That WAYWARD SOCIALIST out SMARTED all of you

BACKWOODS PLANTATION BOSSES.

ANNNDDD he is VERY articulate and he SMELLS GOOD TOO.

Sniff sniff

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 2nd, 2013
7:16 pm

I sure hope you meant a faux one!

A Poet Laureate in a fake coat, how gauche. Never spare the rodents when Dusty desires a wrap!

Uh Huh

January 2nd, 2013
7:17 pm

@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
7:08 pm
it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
—————

Most people who can’t support themselves vote Democrat.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Annnddd most people who get food stamps vote REPUBLICAN.

JamVet

January 2nd, 2013
7:24 pm

Obsess over your made up stories of yore instead of taking a stand against the depraved filth that your Republican pal just wrote.

You will NEVER denounce his words.

Because you wear that swiftboating stench well.

Uh Huh

January 2nd, 2013
7:24 pm

@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
7:08 pm
it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
—————

Most people who can’t support themselves vote Democrat.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You are STILL LYING IN 2013. Getalife Barry.

Republican-Heavy Counties Eat Up Most Food-Stamp Growth

LINK: Bloomberg.com By Frank Bass – Nov 5, 2012 12:00 AM ET ..

Seventy percent of counties with the fastest-growth in food-stamp aid

during the last four years voted Republican.

MarkV

January 2nd, 2013
7:28 pm

“By far and away not the best choices the Republican party had to offer.”

It did.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
7:34 pm

Well, if anything, I got jam defending a Repug.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
7:34 pm

It’s kinda awe inspiring in a way.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
7:36 pm

The majority of welfare recipients live in blue states.

Don’t fear facts.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
7:38 pm

What about Tub-O-Lard Christie blowing a gasket about not getting a wad of obozobucks?

JamVet

January 2nd, 2013
7:39 pm

No, fool, I defend honorable and valorous Americans, while you spit on them.

YOU are the slime who defines them as Republicans and Democrats.

@@

January 2nd, 2013
7:43 pm

You will NEVER denounce his words.

Why should I? You NEVER denounced those of your leftist friends?

Try to remember, I’m a staunch advocate for free speech. You, on the other hand….

Because you wear that swiftboating stench well.

If you’re talking about Kerry, this is my only problem with him. He’s been at the trough far too long and will continue unabated when no one is looking. McCain’s been there too long, as well.

Sen. John Kerry, who has repeatedly voted to raise taxes while in Congress, dodged a whopping six-figure state tax bill on his new multimillion-dollar yacht by mooring her in Newport, R.I.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
7:45 pm

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
7:47 pm

I’m I the only one who witnessed jammies foam about the flip flopper for 18 months?

Just curious.

JamVet

January 2nd, 2013
7:57 pm

Why should I?

Why, indeed.

You cheerleaders for the swiftboaters who spit on war heroes like Asslop just did, stink on ice.

And the only good thing is that it is on a public forum where readers can see for themselves.

Support the Troops…

mike

January 2nd, 2013
8:13 pm

Just thought I’d poke my head in here in the Right-Wing Fantasy Chamber. Just as I expected — nothing changed, still living in a fantasy-world. Carry on.

Look on the bright side — you still have 2014 to look forward to. Or do you? Will the American Public throw all the Republican obstructionists and far right nutcases in Congress? Hmmmm…. tune in next week for the answer.

td

January 2nd, 2013
8:16 pm

amVet

January 2nd, 2013
7:57 pm

Why should I?

Why, indeed.

You cheerleaders for the swiftboaters who spit on war heroes like Asslop just did, stink on ice.

And the only good thing is that it is on a public forum where readers can see for themselves.

Support the Troops…

What a farce because if you really supported the troops then there is no way in h3ll you could ever support the left in this country.

mike

January 2nd, 2013
8:20 pm

For once, I agree with Kyle about this Fiscal Cliff deal. It’s like putting a band-aid on a compound fracture broken leg. It’s doing something, but without any real effect.

Hillbilly D

January 2nd, 2013
8:20 pm

Dusty

January 2nd, 2013
8:34 pm

In honor of Rafe I write a little poem

While there are those who hit and holler,
They are not the ones I follow.
Honesty is still the best,
Integrity covers all the rest.

Some say fur. Some say faux.
Let’s hope it’s all within the law.
But let us not forget and fall
For this is true: Love conquers all!

Hootie Who

January 2nd, 2013
8:49 pm

td

Army 82 to 94

You?

Thought so. You wouldn’t even be accepted int he Salvation Army.

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 2nd, 2013
9:03 pm

Dusty, I can go to bed now, I’ve had my poetry fix. The best poem I ever read was the shortest. I do not know the author but here it is.

FLEAS
Adam
Had’m.

Hopeful

January 2nd, 2013
9:09 pm

Take some of that money and help families struggling with
their parents taking care of them some people want their parents to die
With Pride and at home with their love ones not ship them off in a old folks
home I want to hold my mother in my arms when she dies and I loved her so much
it breaks my heart but I want her not to die alone isn’t that ok !!

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 2nd, 2013
9:09 pm

Further poetic ramblings from Rafe:

DECEIT
Bait and Switch
is Obama’s niche.

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 2nd, 2013
9:13 pm

Hopeful

I’ve been there, hang in there, do your best, and above all else forgive yourself for what you can’t do.

Hopeful

January 2nd, 2013
9:19 pm

WWJD that my Question to all of you

Hopeful

January 2nd, 2013
9:21 pm

Thankyou Rafe

Dusty

January 2nd, 2013
9:21 pm

Rafe, pleasant dreams.

I believe that FLEAS
Adam
Had’m

Was written by Ogden Nash. Here’s another one I think he wrote.
Madame
I’m Adam.

Now there’s a man who really had a way with words.

@@

January 2nd, 2013
9:30 pm

I wonder if AmVet’s forgotten that McCain supported “Bush’s” war…then turned around and blamed Colin Powell for taking us to war.

Towncrier

January 2nd, 2013
9:31 pm

“Only in Washington, D.C., do people raise taxes and fail to cut spending from what they were just a day earlier and call it the “American Taxpayer Relief Act.”

Ah…Kyle…you are obviously bereft of a nifty decoder ring with which to decipher such arcane names for legislation. If you had that, then you might be able to divine the wisdom behind the apparent madness. You must learn to trust government and be assimilated into the Matrix.

Towncrier

January 2nd, 2013
9:33 pm

“You cheerleaders for the swiftboaters who spit on war heroes like Asslop just did, stink on ice.”

Do you honestly think John Kerry was a war hero? Just curious.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
9:46 pm

I am again amazed at what I accomplished today and should get some sort of award for it. And perhaps a cash prize. Think about it, I single handedly got jammies to abandon his stock, off the shelf Republican foamy lunatic rant in favor of actually defending a Republican. I’m surprised that the world didn’t end at that exact moment. I know for sure that the Mayans quaked with fear.

Am I not worthy of something?

mike

January 2nd, 2013
9:47 pm

Reading a lot of these posts and you wonder why the repub party lost the national election. I think you guys should stay the course since it will likely guarantee the same results at the next election.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
9:58 pm

Yeah, if we stay the course in like nominating a north eastern flip flopping aisle reacher from Taxachusetts.

Rubio, anyone?

Banderson

January 2nd, 2013
10:08 pm

Why do cons care what the ratio of spending cuts to revenue raised is? First, you’re couting reinstating the payroll deduction as a tax increase and everybody knew that was just part of the stimulus program that you cons have criticized to high heaven. Plus, all you posted during the election was that raising taxes on those making over $250K was only going to raise $80 billion and that $80 billion wouldn’t make a dent in the deficit. Now you’re complaining about what you claim is $620 billion in increases to cut the deficit. You just like to complain.

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 2nd, 2013
10:12 pm

There isn’t a Con on the planet that would claim revenues will be $620 Billion from this travesty. If you want to quote us try “revenues will drop.”

Uh Huh

January 2nd, 2013
10:17 pm

@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 2nd, 2013
7:36 pm
The majority of welfare recipients live in blue states.

Don’t fear facts.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The ONLY THING to FEAR is a CONNNNNNNNNNNNN!

BACKSTABBING CONS

(What they do)
(They smile in your face)
All the time they want to take your place
The back stabbers (back stabbers)
(They smile in your face)
All the time they want to take your place
The back stabbers (back stabbers)

What can I do to get on the right track
I wish they’d take some of these knives off my back

(What they do)
(They smile in your face)
All the time they want to take your place
The back stabbers
(Back stabbers)
Low down, dirty

(What they do)
(They smile in your face)
Smiling faces
Smiling faces sometimes tell lies (back stabbers)
(They smile in your face)
I don’t need low down
Dirty (back stabbing CONS)

td

January 2nd, 2013
10:21 pm

Banderson

January 2nd, 2013
10:08 pm

Why do cons care what the ratio of spending cuts to revenue raised is? First, you’re couting reinstating the payroll deduction as a tax increase and everybody knew that was just part of the stimulus program that you cons have criticized to high heaven. Plus, all you posted during the election was that raising taxes on those making over $250K was only going to raise $80 billion and that $80 billion wouldn’t make a dent in the deficit. Now you’re complaining about what you claim is $620 billion in increases to cut the deficit. You just like to complain.

That is $620 billion over 10 years verses $80 billion per year. The $620 billion does not cover the additional $4 trillion in spending in this bill. Do you see the difference now?

breckenridge

January 2nd, 2013
10:34 pm

Kyle you hit the nail on the head, members of Congress are much more concerned about doing what’s beneficial for extending their time in Congress than doing what’s right for the country.

A significant number of House republicans simply refuse to vote for any legislation containing tax increases because they fear a challenge from the hard right right next time around. And both House and Senate democrats refuse to even discuss adjustments to Social Security and Medicare as retirees pay more attention than the average bear to these issues and vote accordingly.

I’m convinced term limits are the answer, or more specifically just one term in the House. One and done as it were. Of course floating that balloon would result in overwhelming bi-partisan support – kill the bill!

Uh Huh

January 2nd, 2013
10:39 pm

Eric Cantor has the KNIFE in John Boehner’s back.

Cons are BACKSTABBING each other.

Obama got the CONS going CRAAAZZZZY!

OBAMA WINS AGAIN.

POI

January 2nd, 2013
10:41 pm

“Am I not worthy of something?”

Well if you had a $1.00 to add with your posts, you could buy a copy of the AJC.

If you don’t already have that $1.00, you are as usual are not worthy of anything.

Just saying

Lynnie Gal

January 3rd, 2013
12:01 am

In Republicanland, anyone who compromises with a Democrat is a traitor, so the bitterness is understandable. However, the vote in the Senate shows that not all of them are crazy. And Boehner, for all his faults, isn’t going down with the Tea Party. They’re so widely unpopular now, we will see a TP crash in 2014 and some Republicans don’t want to hitch their wagon to the TP star. Nobody likes Republicans anymore and they know it.

Old Timer

January 3rd, 2013
12:11 am

I give everyone that voted for Obama two years before they really see the light. He had not intention of making America proud. He has his own agenda inherited from his father. Watching the disruption in the Middle East has to be part of an agenda. Two round trips to Hawaii with Ari Force One is not chicken feed–that taxpayers will pay for. There are now eleven states that have more folks on welfare than employed. Sad.

Get Real

January 3rd, 2013
12:21 am

This “president” cares absolutely nothing about reducing the country’s massive debt. Nor do the low information citizens that continue to support him. Get ready for another credit rating reduction as we are on a path for continued trillion dollar deficit spending and a twenty trillion dollar debt.

Gotta love that Hope and Change

Old Timer

January 3rd, 2013
12:59 am

Remember that Obama campaign speech–Hope & Change. He was going to reduce the debt and get American back on track. His train got derailed somewhere and figures that most folks will forget his back & forth campaign speechs. Hey, flying aorund and being pampered in that big old 747 to Hawaii sure beats Chicago. You know the old neighborhood isn’t safe anymore. He wants to retire in Hawaii and get as far and safely away from the mess he is creating. What a guy.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

January 3rd, 2013
5:11 am

Sure hope no one was expecting anything different from President Incompetent, were they?

I guess the only way to keep Hope alive is to continue to fail at everything you try.

Me? I’m still hoping to see one ounce of leadership or competency from this President before his term ends.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

January 3rd, 2013
5:28 am

Here’s a little tidbit from off in left field:

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/pan-arab-al-jazeera-buys-current-tv-al-091145972–finance.html

“With its purchase of left-leaning Current TV, the Pan-Arab news channel Al-Jazeera has fulfilled a long-held quest to reach tens of millions of U.S. homes. But its new audience immediately got a little smaller.

The nation’s second-largest TV operator, Time Warner Cable Inc., dropped Current after the deal was confirmed Wednesday, a sign that the channel will have an uphill climb to expand its reach.

“Our agreement with Current has been terminated and we will no longer be carrying the service. We are removing the service as quickly as possible,” the company said in a statement.

Still, the acquisition of Current, the news network that cofounded by former Vice President Al Gore, boosts Al-Jazeera’s reach in the U.S. beyond a few large U.S. metropolitan areas including New York and Washington nearly ninefold to about 40 million homes.

Gore confirmed the sale Wednesday, saying in a statement that Al-Jazeera shares Current TV’s mission “to give voice to those who are not typically heard; to speak truth to power; to provide independent and diverse points of view; and to tell the stories that no one else is telling.”

Anybody else think it’s not surprising Gore would think this way?

middle of the road

January 3rd, 2013
7:53 am

“What lies will all involved tell us and each other in order to justify passing the NEXT debt limit increase?”

Debt limit increases should be automatic. Congress only uses the debt limit as a show to force a game of “chicken”. Why pass a budget that requires the debt limit to go up by $1 trillion dollars and then threaten to NOT up the debt limit? If you DON’T want to increase the debt limit, then pass a balanced budget (i.e. zero deficit). That may need significant cuts or significant tax increases. That should be dealt with in the BUDGET – the debt limit should move automatically with the budget.

middle of the road

January 3rd, 2013
7:59 am

The problem is we have two parties in Congress (and the White House): the party of Tax and Spend and the party of Borrow and Spend (hopefully you can figure out which is which). What we need is a party of Spend Only What We Tax Ourselves to Pay For. That party would have increased taxed to pay for the Iraq and Afganistan Wars. That party would have increased taxes to pay for the Department of Homeland Security. That party would have increased taxes to pay for Medicare Part D. That party would be taxing everyone more for Unemployment Insurance. Or else they would be making significant cuts to Defense, Medicare, Medicaid.

But both parties are all about giving their constituents what they want and not paying for it.

independent thinker

January 3rd, 2013
8:08 am

Paul Ryan says he voted for the Obama/Biden tax cuts because he wanted to protect the finances of working people (and to hell with the federal deficit for now). Sounds like he and Grover are now Democrats. Come join them Kyle. It won’t hurt.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 3rd, 2013
9:12 am

Raising taxes and borrowing $1trilluon a year are both Democrat ideas, middle of the road.

UIC

January 3rd, 2013
9:13 am

Kyle, you can trash the entire column except the last sentence. “And, due to the results of last year’s election, the very same cast of characters will be “leading” us….” Until that is fixed, nothing else will be. Hey, there’s a column….change the way districts are drawn. Here’s another column….. term limits.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 3rd, 2013
9:21 am

I’ll gain an ounce of respect for Republicans after a few of them stand up and tell the Tea Party and Grover to go blank themselves.

JDW

January 3rd, 2013
9:21 am

@Kyle…”this “deal” is emblematic of everything that’s wrong with Washington”

I agree and the blame lies 80% with the Republicans in the House. They could have had a deal that made sense but they chose to be the Party of No. As for Obama, he caves again. He should have let the taxes increase for all and let the next Congress sort it out. Perfect example of the dilemma the American People face…Obama is average and the Republicans are a non starter.

If this keeps up for two years we will be back to full Democratic majorities soon. Think not? This is what your “Friends” have to say….

Governor Christie on the subject of the House Republicans refusal to consider the Sandy Aid Bill….

“Americans are tired of the palace intrigue and political partisanship of this Congress, which places one-upsmanship ahead of the lives of the citizens who sent these people to Washington, D.C., in the first place,” Christie said. “New York deserves better than the selfishness we saw on display last night. New Jersey deserves better than the duplicity we saw on display last night. America deserves better than just another example of a government that has forgotten who they are there to serve and why.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/dems-dream-of-2014-gains-after-fiscal-cliff-follies-85707.html#ixzz2GvBCtTnk

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 3rd, 2013
9:27 am

The country was gerry mandered in favor of the Dems much longer than l have lived, from at least 1929 (maybe 1870) to about 2000. I remember when they were so desperate to get rid of Georgia’s only GOP congressman Newt Gingrich they moved his district from West Georgia to North Georgia. They didn’t count on Newt being willing to move and they never got rid of him. To the powers in charge, Georgia was not allowed to even have 1 non lapdog congressman. Now that the GOP has control, it is “unfair”. After another 75 years maybe we can have that argument.

Maybe if the GOP had a fair shot all those years, the country wouldn’t be in this fiscal mess.

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 3rd, 2013
9:36 am

They could have had a deal that made sense but they chose to be the Party of No.

No exactly right JDW, it was bait and switch all the time. Every time the GOP accepted, he changed the deal. If he had any integrity he would have honored his prior commitments. When two honorable people negotiate they do not offer things they can’t and will not accept.

If it was right for the country in 2011, it was certainly right for the country in 2012. Why did Obama not stand for what was right, instead of what made the other party look weak.

carlosgvv

January 3rd, 2013
10:00 am

Finn – 9:21

That will happen only if and when they get trounced in the 2014 mid-terms.

idependent thinker

January 3rd, 2013
10:18 am

332 electoral votes to 206 and the House Republicans still think they can run the show and decide what Americans want..

Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

January 3rd, 2013
10:32 am

30 governorships, just as many state legislative majorities, filibuster power in the Senate and an unassailable majority in the House of Representatives, it would be beautiful if the Republicans could gather up their spines and decide what America wants.

MarkV

January 3rd, 2013
10:35 am

JDW @ 9:21 am

“@Kyle…”this “deal” is emblematic of everything that’s wrong with Washington”
I agree …”

I disagree completely. What is “emblematic of everything that’s wrong with Washington” is how the Congress had reached the situation, in which “the deal” was the only rational thing to do. But kudos to the Senate for doing what was the only right thing at the moment, and to at least some Republicans in the House, who did the same.

“As for Obama, he caves again. He should have let the taxes increase for all and let the next Congress sort it out.”

Nonsense. What did he “cave in” about? The $250,000 limit? How much difference does it make?
And what about the “compromise” all the reasonable people have been demanding? What would you be saying if Obama had “let the taxes increase for all and let the next Congress sort it out,” and the stock market were in nose dive today?

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

January 3rd, 2013
10:42 am

I’ll gain an ounce of respect for Democrats when they stand up and tell the Moocher Majority that we can no longer afford all the handouts they’re demanding.

Georgia

January 3rd, 2013
11:04 am

Postcards from the cliff: Part of the change gleaned by the Obama admnistration’s negotiative stance must be that America is learning to accept that the Deal In Name Only (DINO) was the best America could do. Whoever we elected and whatever we thought they could do in Washington, we are now facing our limitations as a country to navigate our own political waters. The fault is America itself, in that our self regulatory process is set on perpetuating familiar caucuses whose sole motivation is survival. This represents a perverse mutation of traditional American values. Our bitter justification for the DINO must now be that it is a good thing that little was actually done; that Gridlock, under God, is blessed for all. This is not the change Obama had in mind – that we accept the extinction of our primary national mission: to promote the general Welfare and secure the blessing of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.

catlady

January 3rd, 2013
11:12 am

Our problem, top to bottom, is GREED. Period.

MarkV

January 3rd, 2013
11:13 am

td @ 10:21 pm

“The $620 billion does not cover the additional $4 trillion in spending in this bill.”

Does anybody know what “additional $4 trillion in spending in this bill” td talks about?

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 3rd, 2013
11:14 am

George Will in todays column

Second, Barack Obama has (as Winston Churchill said of an adversary) “the gift of compressing the largest amount of words into the smallest amount of thought.” His incessant talking swaddles one wee idea — raising taxes on “millionaires and billionaires,” including people earning less than half a million. He has nothing pertinent to say about the steadily worsening fiscal imbalance that will make sluggish growth — less than 3 percent — normal.

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 3rd, 2013
11:21 am

MarkV

Extending the tax cuts for those making under 400,000 costs about 3 Trillion I believe. The rest is all the pork they loaded it down with, farm subsidies, wind subsidies, etc.

Remember how you lefties complained that Bush did not pay for his tax cuts and wars? In fact Barry was a chief complainer and now he is busy doing the same thing. Bait and Switch, that’s Barry’s niche. The Obama Taxcuts for the Rich 2013 have not been paid for, just more generational theft!!!!

independent thinker

January 3rd, 2013
11:30 am

How come no Biden bashing by the die hard cons here? Is he now a Republican lifesaver from humiliation and self flagellation?

Kyle Wingfield

January 3rd, 2013
11:44 am

JDW @ 9:21: Christie is running for re-election in a blue state, nothing more and nothing less. Otherwise, he’d have pilloried the Democrats for adding unrelated pork to a relief aid bill.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

January 3rd, 2013
11:46 am

Politics is the art of compromise. Both sides understand this. One side is just too scared to do it. Until Cons man up and regain their backbones, nothing will get done in the House.

This is why the latest deal was set in the Senate and then handed to the House.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

January 3rd, 2013
12:02 pm

“Our problem, top to bottom, is GREED. Period.”

Yeah, catlady. Too many people greedy for someone else’s money.

Nice to see you’ve finally seen the light.

Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America

January 3rd, 2013
12:10 pm

Finn
I believe it was just yesterday that you made the argument that the problem with the Bush Tax Cuts were they were unpaid for. What do you say about the new Obama Tax Cuts?

JDW

January 3rd, 2013
12:28 pm

@Kyle…”Otherwise, he’d have pilloried the Democrats for adding unrelated pork to a relief aid bill.”

There was virtually ZERO unrelated aid…you can make the case that some of it was not time sensitive but it was ALL for disaster relief/mitigation.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

January 3rd, 2013
12:37 pm

Why do individuals need government relief from Sandy?

Didn’t they have their own insurance? And if not, why not?

Isn’t this what private insurance is for?

MarkV

January 3rd, 2013
12:38 pm

Rafe @11:21 am
“Extending the tax cuts for those making under 400,000 costs about 3 Trillion I believe. The rest is all the pork they loaded it down with, farm subsidies, wind subsidies, etc.”

Rafe,

I see you are taking instructions from Kyle’s textbook, in which the meaning of words is what you want it to be, not what it is. You wrote about “new spending.” Tax cuts are not “spending.”

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

January 3rd, 2013
12:38 pm

Chris Christie feeding at the public trough, just like any Northeast Republican.

Not a pretty visual, that’s for sure.

MarkV

January 3rd, 2013
12:41 pm

Rafe @11:21 am

Sorry, it was td who wrote that, but you have agreed.

Kyle Wingfield

January 3rd, 2013
12:55 pm

JDW @ 12:28: Yep, that money for Alaskan fisheries sure was related to Sandy, just not time-sensitive.

Steve

January 3rd, 2013
1:07 pm

Ray has it right – conservatives have effectively starved government yet spend like Democrats.

Steve

January 3rd, 2013
1:13 pm

In 2012, we spent 925.2 billion on the military. WHY?? The USA is responsible for 41 per cent of the world total, distantly followed by the China (8.2% of world share), Russia (4.1%), UK and France (both 3.6%).

LET’S START CUTTING HERE.