Facts, not emotions, must guide post-Newtown debate
I have deliberately waited to comment on the horrific mass shooting in Newtown, Conn., for a variety of reasons. Not least was the abundance of wrongly reported “facts” early on that made it difficult for someone hundreds of miles away from the story to feel confident about even the basics of the case; this story was not exactly the news media’s finest hour.
Still more important is the impropriety, in my view, of too soon devoting words at a time such as this to anything other than the victims and their families. They deserve better than to be gathered up as evidence for a policy debate within mere hours of their terrible deaths.
Eventually, though, those of us outside Newtown have to grapple with whether there is something we can do to prevent the evil and the insane among us from committing other such acts of wickedness.
As someone who is generally opposed to making our gun laws stricter, and who believes proponents of gun control have spent years making their case to the public without success, I don’t keep a lot of crime statistics at the ready. Here are some facts I’ve been able to gather that might surprise some of you:
- The steps we’ve already taken — including longer jail terms for dangerous offenders (and, yes, some nonviolent offenders) and smarter policing methods — have resulted in a steady drop in violent crime in the U.S. over the past few decades. In 2010, violent crime reached a 40-year low nationally. The U.S. rate of assault deaths per 100,000 people has fallen almost in half since the late 1970s.
- During the 20th century, the average number of people killed in a mass murder involving a gun was barely higher than the average number killed in a mass murder involving a knife, blunt object or one’s bare hands.
- Along with the generally lower incidence of violent crime, mass killings have also been on the decline: from 42 in the 1990s to 26 in the following decade.
- One thing has been consistent about mass shootings for more than a half-century. According to economist John Lott, who co-authored a study of mass shooting in 1999 and spoke with National Review’s John Fund after the Newtown massacre: “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”
- Schools and shopping malls are common spots. But Lott also noted this fact about the shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., earlier this year, per Fund:
[T]he Aurora shooter, who killed twelve people earlier this year, had a choice of seven movie theaters that were showing the Batman movie he was obsessed with. All were within a 20-minute drive of his home. The Cinemark Theater the killer ultimately chose wasn’t the closest, but it was the only one that posted signs saying it banned concealed handguns carried by law-abiding individuals. All of the other theaters allowed the approximately 4 percent of Colorado adults who have a concealed-handgun permit to enter with their weapons.
People who look to other explanations for mass shootings — such as the degradation of the culture, falling religiosity, or gun violence in movies and video games — also have to account for the declining crime statistics above.
It certainly goes against the grain for most of us to look at what happened in Newtown on Friday and conclude nothing can be done. And it is counter-intuitive for many people to believe more guns can lead to lower crime. But if we really are interested in eliminating as many violent deaths as humanly possible — and I know of no one arguing the contrary — we ought to let our policy debate be guided by the facts, rather than the understandable and heavy emotions we’ll all be dealing with for days to come.
(H/t for a few of these links to Ben Domenech’s excellent Transom newsletter. Normally it’s for subscribers only, but today’s edition can be seen for free here.)
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
482 comments Add your comment
carlosgvv
December 17th, 2012
12:29 pm
It’s clear our guns are here to stay.
Therefore, the only logical thing to do is make the schools safer by posting armed police officers at the doors the entire school day, and give them “shoot to kill” orders if a gunman or gunmen show up and try to enter the school.
Georgia, The "New Mississippi"
December 17th, 2012
12:50 pm
Facts, not emotions , must guide post -Newtown debate….. I wish repubiCons would apply this same standard to fiscal policy, economic issues , social programs, tax reform , military spending , corporate welfare.. SMH
Dusty
December 17th, 2012
12:53 pm
Thank you, Kyle, for a most reasonable and compassionate view of the terrible events in Newtown.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
12:54 pm
Georgia, The “New Mississippi”: I wish repubiCons would apply this same standard to fiscal policy, economic issues
——————–
You must not be paying attention. I for one have recited many of the sad facts of our fiscal and economic policy for months.
Kyle Wingfield
December 17th, 2012
12:55 pm
carlosgvv: I heard one suggestion that we do just that — financed by a tax on movies that depict shootings…
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
12:57 pm
“Facts, not emotions, must guide post-Newtown debate”
———————-
If that thought was being observed, there would probably not be as many threats of violence against innocent, law-abiding citizens emanating from the left today.
http://twitchy.com/2012/12/16/amid-increasing-death-threats-nra-braces-for-d-c-anti-gun-march-led-by-left-wing-credo-mobile/
The Snark
December 17th, 2012
12:57 pm
OK, here are three facs to start off with. I trust no one would dispute these.
1. Semiautomatic weapons with high capacity magaines are designed to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible.
2. Law abiding civilians rarely, if EVER, find themselves in a position where they must kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible.
3. The first choice of mass killers is semiautomatic weapons with high capacity magazines.
4. The average citizen has a need for semiautomatic weapons with high capacity magazines because … hmmmm, can’t seem to find an answer to this one.
The U
December 17th, 2012
12:59 pm
Not so sure we can consider anything the Mr. Lott says as “facts”. His study has been shown to have quite a bit of holes in it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/do-concealed-weapon-laws-result-in-less-crime/2012/12/16/e80a5d7e-47c9-11e2-ad54-580638ede391_blog.html?hpid=z2
The Snark
December 17th, 2012
1:00 pm
Anyone who thinks MORE guns in the street is the answer to mass murders has never been in a real shootout. The only guaranteed result of a shootout in a confused, frightened crowd is lots of innocent bystanders hit with stray bullets.
Don't Tread
December 17th, 2012
1:01 pm
It’s refreshing to see an op-ed with actual facts posted instead of the trash pile next door (and the rest of the MSM).
But as the Democrats say, “never let a crisis go to waste”, and they’re already drumming up all the usual emotional arguments to support their continued attacks on individual liberties.
Sure
December 17th, 2012
1:03 pm
I bet The Snark’s next comment will be about how people are unwilling to trade their high-capacity clip for 20 children’s lives. Because, clearly, it’s that simple.
td
December 17th, 2012
1:06 pm
The Snark
December 17th, 2012
12:57 pm
Answer: 2nd Amendment right against potential tyranny of the government. Look up what our founders said on the subject.
Kyle Wingfield
December 17th, 2012
1:11 pm
Snark @ 1:00: The point is that people tend not to commit mass murders in places where they’re likely to encounter someone else who is armed. Take the shooter in Newtown. Perhaps some other explanation about his motive for going on a killing spree at an elementary school — and, specifically, in kindergarten classes — will emerge. But it seems to me, given what we know so far, that he probably chose the place where he was least likely to encounter resistance from either someone who was armed or someone large enough to tackle him (as he might have at a high school, for instance).
Class of '98
December 17th, 2012
1:14 pm
I am somewhat relieved that the focus has moved away from violent video games and heavy metal music. If violent video games and heavy metal music made someone violent, I would be on death row.
And I couldn’t harm a fly.
Kyle Wingfield
December 17th, 2012
1:14 pm
The U @ 12:59: At the same link, we find that other scholarly studies have come to similar conclusions as Lott’s. The problem seems to come when people try to make links that are too sweeping or definitive. I have not seen anyone dispute Lott’s claim that almost all mass shootings since 1950 have taken place at “gun-free zones,” which turned out to be places where only the good guys had no guns.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
1:16 pm
The Snark: The average citizen has a need for semiautomatic weapons with high capacity magazines because … hmmmm, can’t seem to find an answer to this one.
———————–
For the same reason that the average citizen has a need for his Second Amendment rights.
jconservative
December 17th, 2012
1:17 pm
I do not object to a national discussion on guns, violence and the Constitution.
One must start with the fact that the Constitution protects the right to “keep and bear Arms”. That fact must be in any conservation. That fact will only change with an amendment to the Constitution concerning arms.
One must also accept that mass killings, like Newtown, are apparently enhanced by the availability of modern rapid fire weapons. (Since I do not own any such arm I can be corrected on this.)
Most states say no to weapons for felons and the mentally ill, although the Constitution does not provide for keeping arms from such individuals. If it is Constitutional to prevent ownership by some individuals, is it also Constitutional to prevent some individual arms from being possessed by anyone? Say sawed off shotguns? Say AK-47’s? Say anti-aircraft rocket launchers?
I would like to see the discussion revolve, in part, around Justice Scalia’s majority opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller (07-290). Here are some thoughts from that opinion.
“Held:
The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.”
“Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. (Miller v. Texas)
“Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”
“As the quotations earlier in this opinion demonstrate, the inherent right of self-defense has been central to the Second Amendment right. The handgun ban amounts to a prohibition of an entire class of “arms” that is overwhelmingly chosen by American society for that lawful purpose. The prohibition extends, moreover, to the home, where the need for defense of self, family, and property is most acute. Under any of the standards of scrutiny that we have applied to enumerated constitutional rights, banning from the home “the most preferred firearm in the nation to ‘keep’ and use for protection of one’s home and family,” would fail constitutional muster.”
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
1:18 pm
Raise your hand if you’d be willing to trade your First Amendment rights for the lives of 20 children.
Didn’t think so.
hsn
December 17th, 2012
1:19 pm
HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE HAVE TO BE KILLED before common sense prevails on this issue? Senseless massacre after senseless massacre and the gun whackjobs keep telling us guns are not the problem but we should IGNORE OUR EMOTIONS and go with common “facts” that favor their pro-gun agenda.
ITS EASY to tell someone else to SUPPRESS his/her EMOTIONS UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO YOUR CHILD, YOUR BROTHER, SISTER, MOM, DAD, etc
Any attempt to promote a safe and sensible screening and licensing national process into the purchase of guns is wrongly touted by the gun whackjobs as an “ASSAULT” on their 2nd amendment rights and shouts of “Look, the Government is coming to take your guns away.” All of you idiots who still claim more guns are the answer and have opposed any sensible laws to screen the purchase of guns have blood on your hands whether you realize it or not.
YOU ARE EVEN WILLING TO SACRIFICE the lives of your children to a blind allegiance to a stupid gun club, the NRA, and all the false alarms it sells to raise your fears, so it can promote the sale of more guns.
I can see why a civilian may need a pistol for self-defense, but how can you justify the readily availability of high-capacity magazine assault weapons, designed for war zones to ANYONE for purchase? This is unconscionable!
Del
December 17th, 2012
1:22 pm
I think we should take one step at a time in the order of priority. First priority is the safety of our children in our schools. I don’t buy into the notion that we’ve done all that we’re capable of doing to protect our children in the school environment and Sandy Hook is the latest example. I would like to see a commission comprised of professionals in law enforcement and building security systems not politicians to determine best practice solutions for securing schools and protecting our children. There are far better egress regress systems that could be put into place. Inside the building as well as outside there could be CATV monitoring systems. There could be automatic classroom lock downs and hallway blocks in the event of an unauthorized breach. There could be armed plain clothed security personnel that outwardly appear as school staff personnel who’re actually trained security professionals. There’s much that could be done and securing the safety of our children should be paramount. All this subjective talk about banning certain firearms, ammunition and accessories doesn’t address the issue in an objective manner that could bring effective protections against mentally deranged individuals who act out their twisted fantasy by killing innocent children.
Lynnie Gal
December 17th, 2012
1:23 pm
High capacity magazines with 30+ rounds and military grade assault weapons should be banned from public sale. Those weapons are not for hunting or self-defense. But while that would be one step we could take–permitting madmen to become armed madmen with high capacity weapons–I’m not sure that would solve the problem. We need to look at what pharmaceuticals these mass murderers are on. Was Lanza on Zoloft? Was the Aurora killer on Paxel? Because of medical privacy laws, we will never know and news reporters cannot connect the dots for us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhO0Pul_FcE&feature=youtu.be
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
1:24 pm
hsn: HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE HAVE TO BE KILLED before common sense prevails on this issue?
——————-
Whose “common sense” are we to accept? Some think the “common sense” is that we’ve cheapened the value of life thanks to our legacy of killing a million unborn children every year. Or by allowing kids to immerse themselves in shooter games. Or by cheerleading the breakdown of the traditional family.
BenDaho
December 17th, 2012
1:24 pm
It’s a complicated, multi-faceted issue that will not be solved by controlling the size of clips, or capacity of the gun. In this instance, I have to point a huge middle finger at this kids mom. Preparing your kid for a societal breakdown and teaching him to shoot a gun was the last thing this disturbed kid needed. Where is the familie’s responsibility to the community? They couldn’t tell that he was a little bit off? Or too proud to admit it? Maybe schools should start profiling “odd” kids and keep pressure on the parents to monitor and work with the kid.
Karl Marx
December 17th, 2012
1:34 pm
OK, here are three facs to start off with. I trust no one would dispute these.
Yes I would Mr. Snark
1. Semiautomatic weapons with high capacity magaines are designed to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible.
No, remove the Semi from automatic first but then there are other more efficient methods than guns.
2. Law abiding civilians rarely, if EVER, find themselves in a position where they must kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible.
Ask the populations of countries that had to deal with ethnic cleansing about that one.
3. The first choice of mass killers is semiautomatic weapons with high capacity magazines.
Wrong again the first choice is the Suicide Vest followed by the car bomb.
4. The average citizen has a need for semiautomatic weapons with high capacity magazines because … hmmmm, can’t seem to find an answer to this one.
The average citizen needs only air, food, water, and shelter. Everything else is a want not a need.
Thank you for playing…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 17th, 2012
1:36 pm
Crime is down over the last 30 years because of legalized abortion, not better gun laws.
Limiting the output of unwanted babies who the parent(s) didn’t want, couldn’t afford, or couldn’t take responsibility for, in effect limited the number of those kind of babies growing into adults.
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
1:41 pm
Well written, Mr. Wingfield. Kudos.
And to your suggestions, wringing our hands and “concluding that nothing can be done”, save blaming the government, is NO longer acceptable…
td
December 17th, 2012
1:42 pm
Finn McCool (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)
December 17th, 2012
1:36 pm
Since you really believe that one and the research shows that most crimes today are cause by kids that live in single parent households then you should not have a problems with forced contraception for single mothers that want any type of public assistance? Would this not also reduce crime in the future?
Sure
December 17th, 2012
1:43 pm
Somebody read Freakonomics.
HDB
December 17th, 2012
1:46 pm
This is a multi-faceted problem and there’s no easy answer. In many cases, however, it’s been shown that many of these gunmen are severely depressed….without access to mental health services. It’s cheaper to buy a gun than to find a doctor to get help on mental issues; it’s cheaper to buy bullets than to get professional help to assist with mental disorders. Until this nation changes its attitude about mental health issues, the continuation of such events will be evident.
I remember when a person could turn themselves in to state mental facilities to get help; now that mental health services have been cut due to budgets, that access to help is no longer available!!
Kyle Wingfield
December 17th, 2012
1:51 pm
JamVet @ 1:41: I suspect the most effective measures we could take will be smaller than the kind of large-scale measures we’re more likely to be consumed with discussing.
Mr. Snarky
December 17th, 2012
1:54 pm
Fact: suicidal mass killers can always find soft targets where they can kill a whole bunch of people. Spending school budgets on additional security will not change that. More arms around kids may increase the likelihood of their deaths if you get a security guy who gets depressed.
Fact: Semi-automatic weapons make it a lot easier to kill a whole bunch of people. Making them illegal would make it harder for people to get them and reduce the likelihood of their use in mass killings.
Fact: There were 31k + gun related deaths in the US in 2007.
In my opinion, this is the cost of the 2nd amendment. This is too high a price. I can’t remember any deaths related to the other amendments.
Kyle Wingfield
December 17th, 2012
1:54 pm
HDB @ 1:46: Our approach to mental health definitely has to be examined. But if the shooter in Newtown had no condition more severe than Asperger’s, I doubt any measures we might have taken would have prevented his rampage. (And no, that’s not an “Oh well, let’s do nothing” statement.)
Del
December 17th, 2012
1:55 pm
Before we begin restricting the rights of the 99+ plus percent of millions of firearm owners who’re law abiding for the fraction of one percent who would be prone to commit mass murder we need to ask ourselves what external influences provoke the mentally disturbed to perpetrate violence. Is it a desire to put their hands on a so called assault weapon or is it a desire to act out their fantasy of killing. If it’s the latter the question becomes what triggers that desire to kill, certainly not the gun because it’s only a tool, maybe its the uncensored violence they immerse themselves in through violent movies, violent television programs, violent video games even our government releasing detailed information to the public regarding military operations to eliminate our enemies that in my opinion should remain top secret could feed the fantasies of a mentally disturbed person. Maybe before we jump on the typical knee jerk bandwagon of banning guns we might pay attention to some other considerations.
Kyle Wingfield
December 17th, 2012
1:58 pm
Mr. Snarky @ 1:54: Almost every modern firearm is a “semiautomatic weapon.” This piece of advice from a gun-owning journalist to his fellow reporters is apropos here:
“The use of the phrase semi-automatic when talking about guns is like using the phrase ‘gasoline cars.’ ”
And a question: Are you suggesting we amend the Constitution to repeal or limit the Second Amendment?
bluecoat
December 17th, 2012
1:58 pm
Our schools will become more like prisons,with the opposite objective.School buses will either arm the driver or hire someone to ride shotgun.
Class of '98
December 17th, 2012
1:59 pm
Great column in the WSJ today postulating that the 1st Amendment may be as much to blame for mass killings as the 2nd Amendment. A quote:
“An industry (the media) devoted to serving the public’s right to know gives twisted and evil men the means of becoming known.”
How true.
It’s apparent that the motive for the majority of these killers is to “earn” the recognition they have never gotten before. And with round-the-clock televised investigation and speculation of “what made them tick”, they get exactly what they want. We all know the names of the monsters who killed at Columbine. And that, said to say, is why they did it.
This is not to say that the 2nd AND 1st Amendments are obsolete and detrimental. My point is that once we start limiting freedom for the sake of safety, we will find that we have neither.
Rob Stone
December 17th, 2012
2:03 pm
Well-thought out and well-said, Kyle. A refreshing contrast to most of your critics above. Keep up the great work!
MarkV
December 17th, 2012
2:04 pm
While Kyle tries in his article to avoid appearance of strong arguments, “we ought to let our policy debate be guided by the facts,” the overall tone is obvious: no more gun regulation!
With this aim, Kyle repeats some arguments that have been made on the blog yesterday, and which should be unmasked as ridiculous, most notably the following:
“One thing has been consistent about mass shootings … every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”
What is the point of this drivel? Would anyone expect a mass killing of a group of armed soldiers by a single gunman (in a non-war situation)? The only way the argument can be interpreted is that those killed in a mass killing should have been armed. The way to prevent mass killing in schools is to make them into armed camps?
And Kyle continues with this insidious argumentation with the following: “And it is counter-intuitive for many people to believe more guns can lead to lower crime. But …” Again, the only interpretation is: More guns CAN lead to lower crime. Let’s hear from Kyle some FACTS to support that.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
2:05 pm
First, this get rid of Automatic weapons talking point is totally off track. Every firearm in existence other than single shot and double barrel shotguns and revolvers are semi automatic. People who do not know a revolver from a semi automatic pistol need to just too uninformed and needs to keep quite.
These tragedies all seen to have things in common and these things should be examined as to why. They all involve young men between teenager and 30, the perps are usually white, they usually involved people with mental and emotional issues, they all take place in “safe” zones, they all involve much planning and thought, and a weapon is used to expedite the killing. All of these things should be examined and discussed rationally as we attempt to find an answer to prevention of future incidents. We have been trying since at least 1927, when a guy in Bath, MI killed 38 children and adults with bombs at a local school. The answers are complex, and the idea that there are any simple solutions to the problem is ludicrous.
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
2:05 pm
“I’ll lend you, for a little while, a little child of mine,” He said.
“For you to love while he lives, and mourn when he is dead.
“It may be six or seven years or 22, or three,
“But will you, ’til I call him back, take care of him for me?
“He’ll bring his charms to gladden you, and shall his stay be brief,
“You’ll have his lovely memories as solace for your grief.
“I cannot promise he will stay, as all from earth return,
“But there are lessons taught down there I want this child to learn.
“I’ve looked the wide world over in my search for teachers true,
“And from the throngs that crowd life’s lanes, I have selected you.
“Now will you give him all your love–not think the labor vain,
“Nor hate me when I come to call to take him back again.”
“I fancied that I heard them say, ‘Dear Lord, thy will be done.’
“For all the joy this child shall bring, the risk of grief we’ll run.
“We’ll shower him with tenderness and love him while we may,
“And for the happiness we’ve known, forever grateful stay.
“And should the angels call for him much sooner than we planned,
“We’ll brave the bitter grief that comes, and try to understand.”
–Author Unknown
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
2:08 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
1:18 pm
Raise your hand if you’d be willing to trade your First Amendment rights for the lives of 20 children.Didn’t think so.
Barry, even for you, this is a new low.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
2:08 pm
First sentence should read … get rid of Semi Automatic weapons, Automatic weapons are already banned and only used by criminals.
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
2:08 pm
Kyle @1:51, agreed.
Change starts with individuals and in their hearts. These atrocities are merely the manifestations of our disease.
Senseless, depraved violence is a huge money maker in this country (and nowhere else, really) because so many people here want it. They have been conditioned to like it and now they will pay BIG money for it.
Vicarious bloodlust and wanton violence – all in the name of “entertainment” – is cool, huh? Can you show me the dozens of headless bodies again, please, Mr. Stallone?
Witness the political success of that fantastically wealthy, albeit swinish Schwarzenegger. Did anyone even take a righteous stand against this star and all of the countless others associated with his filth?
No. I think not. And in my estimation the man was never fit to lead the people of California. Certainly from a moral standpoint. And it looks like I was correct.
I’ve done my part, and have for thirty years. I go to ZERO of these movies. I watch ZERO of those TV programs and games. And I have and will continue to denounce by name those who glamorize murder and mayhem for millions of dollars.
Your children will get the idea.
John Wayne is dead and he was fraud anyway…
retiredds
December 17th, 2012
2:09 pm
More facts today:
Another Day, More Deaths: Two Police Officers Shot And Killed In Kansas… 3-Year-Old Accidentally Shoots Himself, Dies… Gunman At Large After Shooting Victim 4 Times… Man Shoots Wife… One Person Shot In San Antonio, Gunman Later Shot By Cops… Woman Shot At Campground… Woman Shot To Death, Son ‘Thought She Was Sleeping’… 3 Gunned Down In Grand Rapids
Mr. Snarky
December 17th, 2012
2:12 pm
Kyle, if George Washington had foreseen the level of carnage associated with guns in modern America he and the other founding fathers might have thought longer about including it.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
2:15 pm
Class of 98
I think you make a good point. These kids today want notoriety. The first thing they think to do when something usual happens to them is to take to facebook and twitter and tell everyone how wonderful they are. They release every tidbit of information about themselves and their lives trying to impress someone in the ether.
bluecoat
December 17th, 2012
2:17 pm
I suppose pumps,bolt actions,lever actions are semi auto.Yeah an revolvers would that be a single action or or or.
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
2:17 pm
Kyle, if you truly believe all policy decisions are to be made solely upon facts, absent any emotion, then you should have the spine to include the economic uplift of civilian assault weapons sales, teacher job vacancies created, grave digger wages, and all other related benefits to American society.
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
2:17 pm
Also, I tend to respectfully and somewhat disagree with the sentiment: “It’s apparent that the motive for the majority of these killers is to “earn” the recognition they have never gotten before.”
Are we to believe that if this was Russia and the names and details of event like these were squashed forever that they would cease? Or even abate?
I think not.
If one is irrational enough to wantonly murder children, there would appear to be some much stronger motive than the “fame”, or more correctly infamy, involved.
Besides people can do I what I choose to do, which is to watch almost none of the salacious, self-serving news around these events.
Again, these news events are so fantastically successful because the men who run the media know it is what we want to see.
All it takes is a little self-discipline.
But to the point about the First Amendment, it is moot anyway…
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
2:18 pm
retireddds
You forgot the lady who killed her husband with the tuna sandwich.
You could make a similar list of homicides not involving guns that would be just as impressive.
bo
December 17th, 2012
2:19 pm
‘During the 20th century, the average number of people killed in a mass murder involving a gun was barely higher than the average number killed in a mass murder involving a knife, blunt object or one’s bare hands.”
1. Please cite your data/source.
2. Are you suggesting that the mass murders we have witnessed recently would be just as frequent and extreme if the perpetrators were using their bare hands (or even knives or blunt objects)? You don’t think your “data” might be a little misleading? Would you be willing to press your point in Newtown or Aurora any time soon?
carlosgvv
December 17th, 2012
2:20 pm
Kyle – 12:55
If we can use taxes to build a football stadium, we should be able to use them to protect our children.
I wonder if the ACLU would try to stop this by calling it “unconstitutional”?
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
2:20 pm
….& no one is talking about banning box cutters…..over 3000 deaths…..
td
December 17th, 2012
2:21 pm
Mr. Snarky
December 17th, 2012
1:54 pm
Fact: suicidal mass killers can always find soft targets where they can kill a whole bunch of people. Spending school budgets on additional security will not change that. More arms around kids may increase the likelihood of their deaths if you get a security guy who gets depressed.
Fact: Semi-automatic weapons make it a lot easier to kill a whole bunch of people. Making them illegal would make it harder for people to get them and reduce the likelihood of their use in mass killings.
Fact: There were 31k + gun related deaths in the US in 2007.
In my opinion, this is the cost of the 2nd amendment. This is too high a price. I can’t remember any deaths related to the other amendments.
Fact: More then 2000 children are killed each and every day in this country and you progressives continue to fight for this to continue because it is a “right” protected by the Constitution.
When you progressives come and talk to me about stopping this atrocity then you can come and talk to me about ending my protected Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.
JDW
December 17th, 2012
2:22 pm
Facts, not emotions, must guide post-Newtown debate…Indeed…
Fact…
On March 13, 1996 unemployed former shopkeeper and Scout leader Thomas Hamilton walked into Dunblane Primary School armed with two 9 mm pistols and two .357 Magnum revolvers. He killed sixteen children and a teacher, and wounded 15 others before committing suicide. The subsequent police investigation revealed that Hamilton had loaded the magazines for his Browning with an alternating combination of fully metal jacketed and hollow point ammunition. This event led to the banning of handguns in the UK with the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997.
Fact…
In 2011 the firearms homicide rate per 100,000 people in the UK was .04
Fact…
The US has no such law and in 2008/2010 the firearms homicide rate per 100,000 people in the U was 2.98.
Fact
The US homicide rate is 75 times higher than that of the UK.
Dunwoody Granny
December 17th, 2012
2:23 pm
Kyle, I’m not persuaded by the gun-free zone argument. It seems to me that until fairly recently, when legislatures started expanding the number of places in which guns could legally be carried and courts started limiting the number of places they could be banned, most places where people generally gathered were gun-free zones. Schools. Churches. Theaters. Malls and stores. Workplaces. In fact, to FIND a place where he was likely to encounter anyone else who was armed, a gunman would pretty much have to open up at a pawnshop, gun shop or firing range.
And I also suspect the notion that the average number of people killed in mass shootings is barely above the average number killed in mass knifings is likely to be a form of lying with statistics in which we’re mostly counting attacks on family, which are the commonest type of mass killings. Can you name me a single instance in which someone with a knife entered a school and killed more than half a dozen people? But the history of school shootings is rife with such. I agree that when a person is determined to kill, they’ll find a way to do so. But I think our national indulgence of things like high-capacity magazines makes overkill too easy. If Nancy Lanza hadn’t owned any guns, she’d probably still be dead, and Adam Lanza might be, too. However, I wonder if 20 little kids and 6 school employees would be.
td
December 17th, 2012
2:24 pm
Mr. Snarky
December 17th, 2012
2:12 pm
Kyle, if George Washington had foreseen the level of carnage associated with guns in modern America he and the other founding fathers might have thought longer about including it.
Not meant to be a factual statement.
“”Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
George Washington
Kyle Wingfield
December 17th, 2012
2:24 pm
Mr. Snarky @ 2:12: Maybe so. But the fact remains, the Second is in there. The Supreme Court has held it to grant an individual’s right to keep and bear arms. So, should we amend the Constitution to repeal or limit the Second?
Class of '98
December 17th, 2012
2:25 pm
“If one is irrational enough to wantonly murder children, there would appear to be some much stronger motive than the “fame”, or more correctly infamy, involved.”
Why? You say that wantonly murdering children is irrational, and then claim that the desire for infamy is not a rational motive.
We can politely agree to disagree on this, JamVet, but it appears you are looking for a rational motive to an irrational act.
I would also like to point out that Egyptian pharoahs spent decades building pyramids for the cause of eternal “fame”. I never underestimate a human’s desire to be remembered.
Thomas Heyward Jr
December 17th, 2012
2:25 pm
At the most……….Our children shouldn’t be forced to attend Government schools. Homeschooling should be encouraged.
.
At the least………all teachers and/or administrators should be armed with these.
They can even be tuned down to deal with unruly children or maybe punishment.
If I worked at a government school, you better believe I would have one.
.
http://www.piexon.com/
Kyle Wingfield
December 17th, 2012
2:26 pm
bo @ 2:19: The source is at the link in that statement.
H.E. Pennypacker
December 17th, 2012
2:27 pm
What a cowardly column.
I would have had more respect for you if you would have firmly stated your conclusions rather than using cherry picked facts, (with plenty of correlation and little causation), and the ham handed use of the transitive theory to convey your position that some combination of more guns and/or less restrictions on those currently in place may be the answer.
How about looking at another country that after a mass shooting decided to confront these preventible tragedies with real action, Australia. Homicides are down 59% and suicides down 65%.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 17th, 2012
2:29 pm
Spot on, Kyle, spot on.
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
2:30 pm
So, should we amend the Constitution to repeal or limit the Second?
That is a very, very tough question.
But I keep thinking of these thirteen words that no right winger ever wants to read and generally drops them completely when discussing the Second Amendment:
A well REGULATED Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state…
Does anyone here contend that we have a well REGULATED Militia in this country?
retiredds
December 17th, 2012
2:31 pm
Rafe, thanks for your impressive reply
Class of '98
December 17th, 2012
2:31 pm
H.E. Pennypacker, Japan’s suicide rate is double that of the United States, and they have some of the most strict gun control laws in the world.
Pro-control advocates may have several convincing arguments, but suicide in this country is not one of them.
Kyle Wingfield
December 17th, 2012
2:32 pm
JDW @ 2:22: Fact: The number of injuries or deaths caused by guns in the U.K. doubled in the decade following the country’s handgun ban.
Dr. Pangloss
December 17th, 2012
2:32 pm
“During the 20th century, the average number of people killed in a mass murder involving a gun was barely higher than the average number killed in a mass murder involving a knife, blunt object or one’s bare hands.”
A mass murder committed with bare hands? Who would believe that?
And Kyle quotes Fox News prostitute John Lott as an authority? Show a little class, Kyle.
Kyle Wingfield
December 17th, 2012
2:34 pm
Pennypacker @ 2:27: See my 2:32.
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
2:34 pm
td: “Fact: More then 2000 children are killed each and every day in this country and you progressives continue to fight for this to continue because it is a “right” protected by the Constitution.
When you progressives come and talk to me about stopping this atrocity then you can come and talk to me about ending my protected Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.”
Your “Pro-Life” reasoning is too precious for words…
Kyle Wingfield
December 17th, 2012
2:35 pm
“Show a little class” — signed, the guy who referred to someone else as a “Fox News prostitute.”
The lack of self-awareness among some people is truly unreal.
JDW
December 17th, 2012
2:35 pm
Fact
The Port Arthur massacre of 28 April 1996 was a killing spree in which 35 people were killed and 23 wounded, mainly at the historic Port Arthur prison colony, a popular tourist site in south-eastern Tasmania, Australia. Martin Bryant, a 28-year-old from New Town, a suburb of Hobart, eventually pleaded guilty to the crimes and was given 35 life sentences without possibility of parole. He is now imprisoned in the Wilfred Lopes Centre near Risdon Prison.
The Port Arthur massacre remains one of the deadliest shootings worldwide committed by a single person. Gun control laws in Australia, which had been relatively lenient before the massacre, were reviewed and tightened significantly after the incident.
Fact
A study by Andrew Leigh of Australian National University and Christine Neill of Wilfrid Laurier University found that the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides.
Fact
In 2011 the US firearm homicide rate was 20 times that of Australia
H.E. Pennypacker
December 17th, 2012
2:38 pm
Class of ‘98,
You are engaging in the same type of deception as Kyle. Japan has a highly honor based society where things like unemployment can drive males to kill themselves. This dates back centuries so to try to use this outlier as your example does not work. Would removing all guns eliminate suicides in the U.S.? Of course not, but to say it would not reduce them is not being honest.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
2:39 pm
retireddds
Stepped all over your ideological rant with some observations that didn’t serve your argument, guilty as charged, Doc.
Mr. Snarky
December 17th, 2012
2:39 pm
Kyle,
I’m a data driven type of guy, so if someone can show me the benefits of the 2nd amendment, I’ll consider it. All I can see is the costs, and they are too high.
If rollercoasters killed 30k+ per year, we’d close them down even if there was a Constitutional provision allowing everyone to ride them. The possibility of a truly tyrannical state rising in the US may be a possibility, but it is very remote (despite what some around here think…required health insurance is not tyranny). Whereas, the continuance of thousands of gun related deaths that could be avoided is a certainty.
Class of '98
December 17th, 2012
2:40 pm
H.E. Pennypacker, so what you are saying is that societal VALUES are important above all, not gun availability.
Thanks for making my point.
JDW
December 17th, 2012
2:40 pm
Fact
Of countries that keep such statistics the US has the sixth highest accidental gun death rate in the world trailing Georgia, Argentina, Mexico, Slovakia and Kyrgyzstan.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 17th, 2012
2:41 pm
People who do not know a revolver from a semi automatic pistol need to just too uninformed and needs to keep quite.
That fact wouldn’t in any way stop the poster of this comment to open his/her mouth at will and for long periods of time on said subject.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 17th, 2012
2:43 pm
then you can come and talk to me about ending my protected Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.”
No one is looking to take away your rights to bear arms. No one is going after the 2nd amendment.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
2:46 pm
JamVet: Does anyone here contend that we have a well REGULATED Militia in this country?
———————-
“I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.”
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution
Rightwing Troll
December 17th, 2012
2:46 pm
“carlosgvv: I heard one suggestion that we do just that — financed by a tax on movies that depict shootings…”
Even more apropos would be to finance this with a tax on violent video games…
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
2:47 pm
Mr. Snarky @ 2:12: Maybe so. But the fact remains, the Second is in there. The Supreme Court has held it to grant an individual’s right to keep and bear arms. So, should we amend the Constitution to repeal or limit the Second?
Kyle, the Supreme Court has held that the 2nd Amendment is constrained by reasonable limitations. Anyone may confirm this by carrying a firearm into the Supreme Court building.
Rather than supporting the 2nd Amendment generally (like say, Hussein Obama has), why don’t you defend the civilian need to own assault weapons, designed for soldiers to rapidly kill other humans?
HDB
December 17th, 2012
2:47 pm
Kyle @ 1:54 — Agreed…..
Another part of the problem is the non-uniformity of gun laws. Each state handles guns in a different manner….waiting periods v. immediate purchase; registration vs. non-registration…conceal and carry vs no-conceal laws….reciprocity of gun licensing vs. non-permission to carry (NY, for example)…..
The myriad of gun laws make for inefficient enforcement. In the military, there’s the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice); maybe there should be a UCFW (Uniform Code for Firearms and Weapons)………
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
2:50 pm
“Facts, not emotions, must guide post-Newtown debate”
That should help to keep the resident libs on this blog quiet, then.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
2:51 pm
http://www.corrections.com/news/article/32165-associated-press-story-believe-it-or-not-mass-killings-are-not-on-the-rise-they-are-on-the-decline
• “There is no pattern, there is no increase,” says criminologist James Allen Fox of Boston’s Northeastern University.
He adds that the random mass shootings that get the most media attention are the rarest.
• While mass shootings rose between the 1960s and the 1990s, they actually dropped in the 2000s. And mass killings actually reached their peak in 1929, Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections who has written a history of mass murders in America, says.
getalife
December 17th, 2012
2:51 pm
You should have done that with Libya too Kyle but I digress.
We are speculating again with all the fact unknown.
Our President nailed it. Now is the time to mourn our children.
Wait for all the facts to be known, discuss possible solution and ideas with the professionals and then act.
The new word for today is speculatebates.
Debating using speculation and not the facts.
cons used this in Libya and are dead wrong.
iggy
December 17th, 2012
2:51 pm
As Rahm once told barry…never let a good crisis go to waste. And true to form, barry will attempt to force stricter gun control laws. However, it seems many are beginning to acknowledge it wasnt the gun per se’, but more so this unstable young person.
Barry comments on the subject are moot as he probably couldnt distinguish between a love gun, a staple gun or a caulking gun.
Rightwing Troll
December 17th, 2012
2:52 pm
Oh… here comes the “box cutters” argument… man… sooo predictable…. and yes Linda, as a matter of fact, box cutters are banned on commercial aircraft…
next strawman please…
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
2:53 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
2:46 pm JamVet: Does anyone here contend that we have a well REGULATED Militia in this country?
———————-
“I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.”
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution
JamVet: Lil Barry has helpfully provided an 18th Century answer. To a 21st Century question.
In other words, his norm…
Rightwing Troll
December 17th, 2012
2:54 pm
Obama’s coming to get ur guns…. BOO!!!!
Rightwing Troll
December 17th, 2012
2:55 pm
Hey!… lets ban cars and swimming pools!!!…
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
2:56 pm
JDW @ 2:35-
Kyle asked for facts.
How dare you…
iggy
December 17th, 2012
2:57 pm
Cellphones cause cancer and gasoline pumps to explode. Where is obama on these issues.
getalife
December 17th, 2012
2:57 pm
The money can be diverted from the cons scared to death of aq to protecting our children at school.
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
2:59 pm
Barry, you did not answer the question. Why?
getalife
December 17th, 2012
2:59 pm
Tell us the motive cons.
You don’t know do you.
How about this kids medical records and meds.
You don’t know do you?
There are many unknown facts so how can you start a debate?
You can’t.
Just knee jerk reactions just like Libya.
Mr. Snarky
December 17th, 2012
3:00 pm
“I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.”
What a load of BS…so just make the term militia meaningless, then you can say everyone is in one.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
3:00 pm
getalife: Debating using speculation and not the facts.
———————
Like “Benghazi was caused by a movie”.
fedup
December 17th, 2012
3:00 pm
I am a hunter and the firearms I have are bolt action with and without scope. I don’t need any heavy duty rifles and sure don’t need hollow point and armour piercing ammo to kill a game.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
3:01 pm
I didn’t say everyone is in one. The folks who wrote the Constitution did.
Progs: Unable to understand the plain meaning of words.
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
3:02 pm
iggy, your irrational and dripping hatred for the president are noted.
Numbers-R-US
December 17th, 2012
3:02 pm
The fact is that we have not done enough to protect against such killings and if you, Kyle, were one of those parents that suffered such a loss, I think you would agree.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
3:02 pm
fedup: I am a hunter and the firearms I have are bolt action with and without scope.
——————-
No worries. The Second Amendment protects those too.
H.E. Pennypacker
December 17th, 2012
3:03 pm
Kyle,
Your link to the 2009 article on increase use of guns in crimes is belied by the fact that homicides are at an all time low.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900384
The only intellectually honest argument you can make is how much death will we as Americans endure to satisfy the need some have to own guns.To try and hint at some causal relationship between increased guns and safety forces you to grasp at straws and only serve to obfuscate the overwhelming data that shows the opposite to be true.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
3:05 pm
Finn, my dog edited that,and I apologize for the typo’s. However, I stand by the idea of people not familiar with firearms blathering on about what type of weapon should be banned or allowed. If they don’t like high capacity clips, I can understand that, but most all weapons on the market today are semi automatic. They should by more specific.
As far as my mouth being open, how do you know? If you mean I post on this blog and share my opinion, yep, you are right, I spend too much time here, about a tenth of the amount of time you spend on this blog, but you will just have to get used to it. I promise to leave plenty of space for you to post your inane, insipid, DNC talking points, however. I only use one screen name unlike you. Do I count all of your personalities, when I count your posts.
Hopeful
December 17th, 2012
3:07 pm
It’s amazing what people do to each other they lost their respect so were and love
for human life . We all are anger about something in this world but we needed to control
ourselves and find a human outlet like something nice visited shut ins and the Elderly at old folks
home instead of yelling sing to God are a friend instead of hitting make bread in the kitchen instead of
shooting someone cut grass or raked the leaves and knee down to God and say lord help me I’m drowning in anger and pity! Easier said then done but wiser and the way to go and if u don’t Believe go to a movie and see a Comedy ! Life hard we are all stuck in a bad thing but don’t hurt know one be kind and love each other cause we all have to live in this world together God may be with all of you
And Merry Christmas
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
3:07 pm
H.E. Pennypacker: homicides are at an all time low.
——————-
Not exactly a rousing justification for asking folks to surrender their Constitutional rights.
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
3:08 pm
“Barry comments on the subject are moot as he probably couldnt distinguish between a love gun, a staple gun or a caulking gun.”
IG: You must be talkin’ ’bout our Barry…
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
3:09 pm
If you’ve had an abortion (or encouraged one, or paid for one) you’ve destroyed more lives than any NRA member.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 17th, 2012
3:10 pm
If you need 30 rounds of ammo to kill a deer then maybe incompetence should keep you from getting a hunting or gun license.
It’s not like the deer is sporting hand grenades or even a bb gun.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 17th, 2012
3:10 pm
Could you libs like please include the pertinent excerpts from the 2nd Amendment instead of being wormy, as usual?
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of ——->the people<——- to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.</i.
Thanks in advance.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 17th, 2012
3:10 pm
Look at me, asking a lib not to be wormy, geez, don’t I get ridiculous sometimes?
JDW
December 17th, 2012
3:11 pm
@Kyle…not when you give the law time to work…
“According to bare statistics, the ban initially appeared to have little impact as the number of crimes involving guns in England and Wales rose heavily during the late 1990s to peak at 24,094 offenses in 2003/04.
Since then the number has fallen in each year. In 2010/11 there were 11,227 offenses, 53% below the peak number, according to the official crime figures. Crimes involving handguns also fell 44% — from 5,549 in 2002/03 to 3,105 — in 2010/11.”
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/world/europe/dunblane-lessons/
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
3:11 pm
Funny, Just Saying…coincidentally, I used two of the three today, and didn’t hear any complaints.
td
December 17th, 2012
3:12 pm
fedup
December 17th, 2012
3:00 pm
I am a hunter and the firearms I have are bolt action with and without scope. I don’t need any heavy duty rifles and sure don’t need hollow point and armour piercing ammo to kill a game.
Please show me where the 2nd Amendment was written to protect hunting?
Mr. Snarky
December 17th, 2012
3:13 pm
LBB – So you do agree or disagree with the statement that we’re all in a militia?
George Mason is one person. If all the writers of the Bill of Rights felt this way, then why mention militias?
iggy
December 17th, 2012
3:15 pm
“were one of those parents that suffered such a loss, I think you would agree.”
Perhaps, however, who would have ever thought this kid wouldve shot out the windows, jumped inside then rampaged. The kid could just as easily tossed a cement block thru the window, jumped in and began tossing pipe bombs in classrooms or some types of chemicals or entered a classroom with sabre and began choppin off heards or baseball bat and cracking some skulls.
Didnt think of all that now did ya. You KNOW ya didnt!
NEXT!!
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
3:16 pm
Barry, not gonna answer the question, eh?
Alrighty then.
And good old crybabyius, what can you say about him?
The guy has a mancrush on me…
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
3:17 pm
If all the writers of the Bill of Rights felt this way, then why mention militias?
——————–
The Bill or Rights mentions people, too. And it would be quite a novel interpretation of the Bill of Rights to pretend that it protects the Government’s “rights” to maintain an army. The Bill or Rights protects the people from the government, and it is no accident that the right to bear arms is second only to the First Amendment.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
3:18 pm
Sheesh…Bill “OF” Rights…typing too fast.
Jefferson
December 17th, 2012
3:18 pm
Facts are the 2 largest school murders in the US were done by crazies with legal handguns.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
3:19 pm
What question, JamVet? Did you get your sockpuppets mixed up?
td
December 17th, 2012
3:20 pm
Finn McCool (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)
December 17th, 2012
3:10 pm
If you need 30 rounds of ammo to kill a deer then maybe incompetence should keep you from getting a hunting or gun license.
It’s not like the deer is sporting hand grenades or even a bb gun.
There is nothing in the 2nd Amendment that says guns are for hunting.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
3:21 pm
“If all the writers of the Bill of Rights felt this way, then why mention militias?”
Militias were the accepted method of protecting one’s property from those that would oppress or take by force at the time.
No different today.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
3:22 pm
Of course, the Framers had a much more independent-minded and self-supporting set of individuals to work with back then.
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
3:23 pm
“Progs: Unable to understand the plain meaning of words.”
But WAY up to speed on the changes since the words were written…
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
3:23 pm
Jefferson
Facts are the 2 largest school murders in the US were done by crazies with legal handguns.
Liberals, always misinformed. Google Bath, MI school massacre, Jefferson, bombs killed 38.
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
3:24 pm
Did you get your sockpuppets mixed up?
No, have you been drinking already?
You seem very confused. To the point where you cannot follow a very simple train of posts.
re, the question in my post that YOU responded to about well regulated militias. And the one that you did not answer therein.
Hello?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
3:26 pm
“But WAY up to speed on the changes since the words were written…”
Really? I was unaware that the stronger and bigger no loner try to take from the weaker or smaller.
When did that change, Just Saying?
Mr. Snarky
December 17th, 2012
3:29 pm
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
Since we’d just fought a war against England, my thought on the purpose of these “militias” is that it was like the National Guard…since we didn’t maintain a large standing army in those days.
I don’t think they were making sure that Adam Lanza’s mom could have a cool gun collection and hang out at the shooting range.
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
3:29 pm
“If you’ve had an abortion (or encouraged one, or paid for one) you’ve destroyed more lives than any NRA member.”
You know, Barry, every time you say “Law-abiding citizen”, those are the people you’re referring to?
Democracy’s hell, huh?
nomaj
December 17th, 2012
3:31 pm
Fact: NYC in the 1970s through the mid 1990s was a violent and unsafe place.
Fact: NYC, starting with Rudolf Giuliani’s tenure as mayor, instituted very strict gun control measures.
Fact: NYC in the 21st century has one of the lowest violent crime rates of all major US cities, Manhattan, in particular, has an extremely low violent crime rate.
Tealiban Party
December 17th, 2012
3:32 pm
Gun laws have been gutted over the last decade, and now it seems we are dealing with these horrific mass killings on a weekly basis. (Aurora movie theater, Oregon Mall shootings, Newtown)
Puck
December 17th, 2012
3:32 pm
It would be interesting to find out how much of an impact the assault weapons ban had on those statistics during the time it was in effect (1994 – 2004).
Hopeful
December 17th, 2012
3:35 pm
My sister was 14 teen years old was killed by a Drunken driver so it’s are
mental health that is a problem
Hopeful
December 17th, 2012
3:36 pm
The question is are we aware that people are in deed need of mental help is their a hot line for that
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
3:37 pm
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012/3:26 pm
Really? I was unaware that the stronger and bigger no loner try to take from the weaker or smaller.
When did that change, Just Saying?
Hasn’t changed, Tib.
Latest example would be Adam Lanza and a .223 Bushmaster taking twenty 5 and 6 year old children away from their parents.
Tealiban Party
December 17th, 2012
3:38 pm
More Americans are killed by gun violence in the U.S. EVERY SIX MONTHS, than those killed in Iraq, Afghanistan wars, and all terrorist actions in the last 25 years combined.
http://icasualties.org/
Hopeful
December 17th, 2012
3:38 pm
Call it outlet control talk to me hotline to call to get help before you leap
Hopeful
December 17th, 2012
3:44 pm
You see help if u want to give up a child you see help if you want to quit drugs are Alcohol but you don’t see help to just talk if your anger stress been buddy at school hey dummies people need a outlet
hotline help for those that are on of a Verge of a nervous breakdown
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
3:44 pm
Puck, I read some information today that it was very hard to quantify. Some contend that it helped, others said no.
CC
December 17th, 2012
3:44 pm
Amendment II. A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free
state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
“the right of the people to keep and bear arms”
I see NOTHING in the Constitution granting the federal government the RIGHT or RESPONSIBILITY to specify what TYPE of arms or the CAPACITY of the arms.
ClydeFr0g
December 17th, 2012
3:44 pm
Jefferson;
“Facts are the 2 largest school murders in the US were done by crazies with legal handguns.”
Facts are that on schools no law-abiding citizens can have a firearm to defend against those that come to commit mass murders.
Mr. Snarky;
“I’m a data driven type of guy, so if someone can show me the benefits of the 2nd amendment, I’ll consider it. All I can see is the costs, and they are too high.
If rollercoasters killed 30k+ per year, we’d close them down even if there was a Constitutional provision allowing everyone to ride them. The possibility of a truly tyrannical state rising in the US may be a possibility, but it is very remote (despite what some around here think…required health insurance is not tyranny). Whereas, the continuance of thousands of gun related deaths that could be avoided is a certainty.”
You have clearly demonstrated you are anything BUT a “data driven type of guy”. You are just driven by whatever “data” you cherry pick to defend your established position and nothing anyone else says, no matter how logical or reasonable, will alter your view.
No one needs to show you the benefits of the Second Amendment, that’s your own responsibility and maybe that of the teachers of the Civics classes you should have attended sometime between 7th and 9th grade.
I enjoyed your bit about roller coasters. Let’s expand on that , Mr. “data driven type of guy”….
There are FAR more deaths attributed to alcohol and tobacco (first-hand AND second-hand smoke) annually in the US, and there is NO amendment that guarantees your right to either of those substances. You want to save lives? Go ban alcohol and tobacco. Sound ridiculous? I’d agree because I believe in FREEDOM, but the numbers don’t lie Mr. “data driven type of guy”, they are FAR more harmful than guns.
I don’t stay awake at night worried about my government becoming tyrannical, but I accept it as a possibility. I don’t lie awake at night concerned that my society will completely break down, but I’ve lived through that exact thing happening in New Orleans after Katrina hit, so I know that it CAN happen at any time and you cannot argue otherwise.
I do CHOOSE to exercise my Second Amendment rights and own, operate, and maintain a variety of weapons. Partially for protection from criminals, partly should the need arise if government collapsed or become tyrannical, and partly because I just enjoy shooting as a hobby. If you don’t like it you can suck a rock, move to Europe, Iran, China, or someplace else where you don’t have to worry your pretty little head off that some bad man is going to come into a theater and shoot you because it happens to roughly 0.0000004% of the population. That is NOT statistically significant, Mr. “data driven type of guy”.
Kyle Wingfield
December 17th, 2012
3:48 pm
JDW @ 3:11: We are talking about two things. I linked to a report on injuries/deaths involving handguns. You are talking about all offenses involving handguns, which would be much broader and not necessarily indicative of a safer society. Are we trying to reduce arrests or deaths?
CC
December 17th, 2012
3:48 pm
“Fact: NYC in the 21st century has one of the lowest violent crime rates of all major US cities, Manhattan, in particular, has an extremely low violent crime rate.”
Only because they hide the bodies in NJ and an accurate count is impossible . . .
iggy
December 17th, 2012
3:48 pm
If barry had his way he would ban bb guns, cap guns, LA Guns, paint ball guns, son of gun, Guns n Roses, grease guns, water guns, top guns, Happiness is a Warm gun, Janies got a gun, ShoGuns, Gunsmoke and probably the word Gun.
Glenn
December 17th, 2012
3:49 pm
No one needs an assault rifle . A semi automatic rifle can be made an automatic easily enough . In stead of these facts could we use common sense . There are certain guns/weapons that no one should be able to purchase .
Don’t you think the victims & their families deserve more than right wing talking points & continual inaction ? Add another notch to your narrow message & why as a party the R’s will continue to move toward irrelevance .
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
3:50 pm
“Hasn’t changed, Tib.
Latest example would be Adam Lanza and a .223 Bushmaster taking twenty 5 and 6 year old children away from their parents.”
Yup, and EVERYBODY surrounding those kids were completely disarmed by the State. Congratulations, Just Saying. You enabled the wolf to prey on the sheep.
Cherokee
December 17th, 2012
3:51 pm
“there is nothing in the second amendment that says guns are for hunting”
And if you really think your Bushmaster is going to hold back government tyranny, you really are ignorant of the power and effectiveness of drones, tanks, and tactical infantry units.
Your silly little play militia would get blown away by real USA security forces.
Hopeful
December 17th, 2012
3:52 pm
How do these kids get these guns
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
3:52 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
3:09 pm
If you’ve had an abortion (or encouraged one, or paid for one) you’ve destroyed more lives than any NRA member.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
How many of the 4.3 million NRA members have had an abortion
(or encouraged one, or paid for one)?
Hopeful
December 17th, 2012
3:54 pm
Who gives them the guns were are they coming from that’s the question?????
Are kids going to have to be home school for safely ?????
iggy
December 17th, 2012
3:54 pm
“Don’t you think the victims & their families deserve more than right wing talking points & continual inaction ?”
Truthfully, that is not the issue and neither is your kneeJerk reaction.
Glenn
December 17th, 2012
3:55 pm
“Yup, and EVERYBODY surrounding those kids were completely disarmed by the State. Congratulations, Just Saying. You enabled the wolf to prey on the sheep.”
You just described most all first world countries . Must say I feel really scared in Canada seeing cops with nothing but phones ; )
td
December 17th, 2012
3:57 pm
Cherokee
December 17th, 2012
3:51 pm
“there is nothing in the second amendment that says guns are for hunting”
And if you really think your Bushmaster is going to hold back government tyranny, you really are ignorant of the power and effectiveness of drones, tanks, and tactical infantry units.
Me alone and my weapons alone going to stop a tyrant with our military NO. This is not the intent of the 2nd Amendment. 100 million citizens with 300 millions guns stop a tyrant from taking over the country ABSOLUTELY.
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
3:57 pm
CC: “I see NOTHING in the Constitution granting the federal government the RIGHT or RESPONSIBILITY to specify what TYPE of arms or the CAPACITY of the arms.”
So, you educational input today is that the US Constitution is not subject to review or interpretation by the Supreme Court?
Could you get that info to Antonin Scalia, like, really soon?
Glenn
December 17th, 2012
3:58 pm
Knee jerk reaction ?!
To common sense . There are some weapons that no one should be able to purchase . Silly that I was able to come to that conclusion before a bunch of children were slaughtered .
ClydeFr0g
December 17th, 2012
3:58 pm
Cherokee;
“And if you really think your Bushmaster is going to hold back government tyranny, you really are ignorant of the power and effectiveness of drones, tanks, and tactical infantry units.
Your silly little play militia would get blown away by real USA security forces.”
Oh really? You don’t watch the news much, do you? Look up a place called Syria and see what the people are accomplishing with rifles against a military dictatorship propped up with tanks, drones, and tactical infantry units.
You really think US military personnel would unanimously support deployment against Americans on American soil? You think we would have one fighting force that would sweep away 1/3 of their fellow Americans to prop up whatever regime was ordering them to kill their brothers, fathers, and friends? I don’t. There may be some die-hard regime supporters (like in Syria) but I believe the majority would either refuse to fight or join the peoples’ militias.
Mr. Snarky
December 17th, 2012
3:58 pm
Clyde, I’m just glad you’re not emotional about this, and rely strictly on data.
“No one needs to show you the benefits of the Second Amendment, that’s your own responsibility and maybe that of the teachers of the Civics classes you should have attended sometime between 7th and 9th grade. ”
Sounds like you can’t make that argument as to why having more guns than people in the US benefits us as a society. You can only say that you love your guns and you’re not giving them up.
FYI..we tried banning alcohol, it didn’t work. Now we haven’t banned tobacco, we just tax the hell out of it. Oh, and alcohol and tobacco are social/health problems but they mainly hurt the people consuming them. I can’t go make a bunch of 6 year old’s smoke cigarettes.
You’re not very persuasive…just angry.
I don’t think it’s realistic to repeal the second amendment, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t ask these questions. We should at least ban the guns with the really big clips and tax the hell out of the rest of them.
iggy
December 17th, 2012
4:00 pm
Neither guns or guns used by this little maniac/resourceful fellow the issue. He wouldve completed his mission with or without a gun. He wouldve found a way becaue there is always a way.
Who is to say he couldnt have boarded a school bus, with even more children on board and ran it over a 50 foot embankment, or boarded a school bus with containers of gasoline, doused everyone and set it ablaze.
Most of you seem to have very limited imaginations.
Hopeful
December 17th, 2012
4:01 pm
I’m sorry for their lost of the families that lost a child or a teacher ! May your life come up with a Solution to prevent this from happening again and may God be with you!!
iggy
December 17th, 2012
4:01 pm
“There are some weapons that no one should be able to purchase.”
Why? Because you say it should be so or because you hero, DaddyLongLegs says it should be so?
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
4:07 pm
iggy, what the heck is wrong with you???
You actually wrote a post that DIDN’T blame Barack Obama for everything???
Wow, sad times, indeed…
Rightwing Troll
December 17th, 2012
4:07 pm
“I see NOTHING in the Constitution granting the federal government the RIGHT or RESPONSIBILITY to specify what TYPE of arms or the CAPACITY of the arms.”
Antonin Scalia, evidently, does… that ol’ activist judge him…
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
4:10 pm
“There are some weapons that no one should be able to purchase.”
The problem with libs (amongst so many) is that you just don’t know when to stop. First you see the need to ban large clips. Then you see the need to ban semi-automatic handguns, then you’ll see the need to ban knives larger than (fill in the blank). You just can’t help yourselves in meddling in anybody’s life.
it’s all about control with you libs.
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
4:10 pm
Just from reading comments on this blog and many others, I wonder if some know the difference between automatic and semi-automatic. I also know that you can shoot a pump rifle or shotgun as fast as you can shoot a semi-automatic, if you know what you’re doing.
The problem is the people. Like I said yesterday, the mental health system is a mess. In an attempt to correct previous problems, they came up with a solution that went too far. It’s damn near impossible to commit an adult against their will, until they do something, by which time it’s too late.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
4:11 pm
@iggy
December 17th, 2012
4:01 pm
“There are some weapons that no one should be able to purchase.”
Why? Because you say it should be so or because you hero, DaddyLongLegs says it should be so?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
VIOLENCE visited on OUR CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF FREEDOM?
VIOLENCE visited on “YOUR” CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF FREEDOM?
iggy
December 17th, 2012
4:11 pm
JV,
Glenn
December 17th, 2012
4:12 pm
Because I hero Iggy . I hero like John Wayne . A fifty foot embankment ? Did you really type that ?
Some weapons have no purpose other than mass killing and they should not be allowed for purchase. Simple as that .
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
4:13 pm
Rightwing@2:25, See Kyle’s 2:35.
Do liberals ever take a break, maybe during the Christmas season, from being rude?
Guns were banned for passengers on commercial flights & did not stop the death of over 3000 people.
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
4:14 pm
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012/3:50
Yup, and EVERYBODY surrounding those kids were completely disarmed by the State. Congratulations, Just Saying. You enabled the wolf to prey on the sheep.
From “George Mason doesn’t know Bushmaster”, you make a fascinating thought progression, Tib.
I truly wish you could live where that mind of yours takes you.
Regrettably, it will never be in America.
As we had to remind you Nov 6…
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
4:15 pm
Apparently cc and tibby won’t be happy until every American citizen has the lawful right to carry suitcase nukes around.
HD, word.
iggy, a big grin right back at ya!
iggy
December 17th, 2012
4:15 pm
uh Nooo. Violence is violence with different circumstances. Lets not toss our the baby with the bathwater here, because you think we should.
Yep
December 17th, 2012
4:16 pm
You can kill a human with pretty much anything, but why would you allow a civilian to own and operate military grade weaponry and ammo? If you support the sale of military weapons, I hope you remember those frightened 6-year olds whose bodies were mutilated by these sorts of weapons every time you pull the trigger.
Rob Stone
December 17th, 2012
4:18 pm
George Washington didn’t have to foresee anything. He lived through armed occupation that saw citizens forced to take enemy soldiers into their homes, saw attempts to disarm the general populace, and saw firsthand the need for a people to be able to defend themselves, in more than one war that took place on American soil during his lifetime. He led an army composed primarily of armed citizen-soldiers to win the freedoms we now have. Don’t try to put our Founding Fathers into today’s context and don’t try to imagine what they “would have done” in an effort to legitimize your position. We’ve got more than enough of that kind of revisionist history crap in our world today.
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
4:20 pm
“it’s all about control with you libs.”
As in, enjoy that rape-child, Missy. My gift to you…
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
4:21 pm
“Some weapons have no purpose other than mass killing and they should not be allowed for purchase. Simple as that .”
Define “mass” killing. More than one? Make your case.
md
December 17th, 2012
4:23 pm
” The only guaranteed result of a shootout in a confused, frightened crowd is lots of innocent bystanders hit with stray bullets.”
And what is the guarantee when there is no shootout?
I vote for the stray bullets thank you very much.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
4:23 pm
What size bathtub do you prefer, Amvet?
And more importantly, why haven’t you apologized for your earlier remarks?
Or do you stand by your comment that conservatives deserve to be drowned in a bathtub?
ClydeFr0g
December 17th, 2012
4:24 pm
Mr. Snarky;
“FYI..we tried banning alcohol, it didn’t work. Now we haven’t banned tobacco, we just tax the hell out of it. Oh, and alcohol and tobacco are social/health problems but they mainly hurt the people consuming them. I can’t go make a bunch of 6 year old’s smoke cigarettes.
You’re not very persuasive…just angry.
I don’t think it’s realistic to repeal the second amendment, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t ask these questions. We should at least ban the guns with the really big clips and tax the hell out of the rest of them.”
Yes, we tried banning alcohol and it didn’t work. We’ve made drugs illegal and that hasn’t worked either. Yet somehow you believe that magically making a law to “ban the guns with the really big clips and tax the hell out of the rest of them” is going to work? That’s some sound logic there Snarky!
So tell me, when you ban guns with really big clips and tax the hell out of the rest of them, you think no one will have guns with really big clips? REALLY? You can’t possibly be that stupid, can you? All you will do is prevent law-abiding citizens from possessing them…criminals will STILL have them just like they still have drugs….
No, you can’t make a bunch of 6 year olds smoke cigarettes, yet according to the CDC over 200 children die every year in the US from second-hand smoke. That’s 10 times as many kids killed in this incident that has you foaming at the mouth.
“Oh, and alcohol and tobacco are social/health problems but they mainly hurt the people consuming them”…really? According to the CDC each year in the US over 10,000 people are killed in auto accidents involving an alcohol-impaired driver. Hmmm….10,000 vs 150…which is a bigger problem, Mr. “data driven type of guy”?
You aren’t persuasive, just ignorant and reacting emotionally.
td
December 17th, 2012
4:25 pm
Yep
December 17th, 2012
4:16 pm
“You can kill a human with pretty much anything, but why would you allow a civilian to own and operate military grade weaponry and ammo?”
Military grade weapons have the capability of being fully automatic. Unless, you have a special license, those types of weapons are illegal to have in the US by ordinary citizens.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
4:25 pm
Just Saying, it wasn’t conservatives who have attempted to disarm the general populace, leaving the innocent unprotected.
It’s you libs.
Their blood is on YOUR hands.
md
December 17th, 2012
4:25 pm
” In the years following its ban, Washington did not generate a decline in gun murders. In fact, the number of killings rose by 156 percent — at a time when murders nationally increased by just 32 percent. For a while, the city vied regularly for the title of murder capital of America.
Chicago followed a similar course. In the decade after it outlawed handguns, murders jumped by 41 percent, compared with an 18 percent rise in the entire United States.”
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-03-04/news/ct-oped-0304-chapman-20100304-column_1_legal-handguns-gun-violence-ban
Another guarantee, predators prey on the weak. Unarmed opponents fit that description real well.
Cherokee
December 17th, 2012
4:26 pm
Clyde: You really think US military personnel would unanimously support deployment against Americans on American soil?
Of course I don’t think that – it’s people like you and td who are making the argument that we have to defend ourselves from the government.
iggy
December 17th, 2012
4:26 pm
I dont see how this much matters as the Mayan calendar is gonna run out any day now.
Problem solved.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
4:28 pm
“I hope you remember those frightened 6-year olds whose bodies were mutilated by these sorts of weapons every time you pull the trigger.”
I hope you remember them every time you realize you disarmed everyone around them who could have protected them, Yep.
Their blood is on YOUR hands.
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
4:31 pm
A little historical background on the 2nd Amendment/Militia discussion.
The U. S. has had a standing army since June 3, 1784. It was created by the Congress of the Confederation. My own great-great-great-great-great grandpa was killed as a member of the U S Army, November 4, 1791, at St Clair’s Defeat (St Clair was an idiot but that’s another discussion for another day). That occurred about 6 weeks before the 2nd Amendment was ratified, December 15, 1791. So the argument that we have a 2nd Amendment because there was no Army, is just inaccurate.
Fenton Hardy
December 17th, 2012
4:33 pm
Do you really think that nutjob in CO looked on the paper and saw guns were not allowed in the theatre? Or Lanza picked a school because no one would be armed? Hell, the clown in CO had body armour so he was prepped for anything.
Michael
December 17th, 2012
4:33 pm
TD is worried about tyranny! He has his guns and he is set, but no he wants 100 million other people to have guns so the can defeat the enemy. If my Grandfater was alive he would be 116 years old old he never once worried about tyranny of the US Government. Maybe Nixon was the closet we came but checks and balances did him in, not an assault rifle.
Klye I thought Pres. Obama did a good job of walking the tightrope of not being political but giving people a sense we would no longer do nothing,as doing nothing is doing something. So I disagree with you as we need more than what you offer.
Rick C
December 17th, 2012
4:35 pm
“I hope you remember them every time you realize you disarmed everyone around them who could have protected them, Yep.”
You are a piece of work man.
CC
December 17th, 2012
4:37 pm
“Apparently cc and tibby won’t be happy until every American citizen has the lawful right to carry suitcase nukes around.”
You don’t have one yet?
Mr. Snarky
December 17th, 2012
4:37 pm
Clyde, you do a great job saying why alcohol and tobacco should be illegal. You’re also just trying to change the subject.
Since we’re on it, notice that drunken driving and anti-cigarette laws have been improving things? I believe they have.
Based on that logic, reducing the availability of guns would reduce the deaths associated with guns. Thanks for making my case for me.
Stephenson Billings
December 17th, 2012
4:38 pm
So what exactly is an “assault weapon”?
According to the now expired “Clinton-era assault weapons ban,” an “assault weapon” is any semi-automatic weapon that has a detachable magazine and 2 or more of the following:Folding or telescoping stock, pistol grip, bayonet mount, flash suppressor (or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one), and grenade launcher mount.
That’s right…as long as it has 2 or more of the above, it doesn’t matter if it fires .22 long rifle. It’s considered an ASSAULT WEAPON.
Purely cosmetic criteria and ignorant legislation to make people FEEL better instead of looking at root causes of this type of behavior.
Stephenson Billings
December 17th, 2012
4:41 pm
Connecticut School Shooting Doesn’t Deter Crowd At Gun Show In Montgomery County
“A gun show in Montgomery County drew a huge crowd on Sunday, despite calls for stricter gun control after a shooting rampage at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut.
If gun control advocates were hoping the scale of death at Sandy Hook Elementary School would dampen enthusiasm for the purchase of guns, the line of people waiting to get in to the Greater Philadelphia Expo Center was evidence to the contrary.”
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/12/16/connecticut-school-shooting-doesnt-deter-crowd-at-gun-show-in-montgomery-county/
Stephenson Billings
December 17th, 2012
4:43 pm
Civility: NRA Leaders and Members Getting Death Threats
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/12/17/civility-nra-leaders-and-members-getting-death-threats-n1468555
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
4:45 pm
Rob Stone,
Hear hear!
Their blood is on YOUR hands.
As if anyone would care what a deranged, depraved pig like you thinks?
Too funny.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
4:47 pm
@iggy
December 17th, 2012
4:26 pm
I dont see how this much matters as the Mayan calendar is gonna run out any day now.
Problem solved.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I hope you are ready and have lived a life that was pleasing to God.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness.
Their end will correspond to their deeds.
CC
December 17th, 2012
4:49 pm
“As if anyone would care what a deranged, depraved pig like you thinks?”
Apt statement . . . as pertains to YOU.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
4:51 pm
@CC
December 17th, 2012
4:37 pm
“Apparently cc and tibby won’t be happy until every American citizen has the lawful right to carry suitcase nukes around.”
You don’t have one yet?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
VIOLENCE visited on OUR CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF FREEDOM?
VIOLENCE visited on “YOUR” CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF FREEDOM?
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
4:53 pm
If I was quoting scripture on the Mayan thing, I’d go with Mark 13:32 or Matthew 24:36.
CC
December 17th, 2012
5:00 pm
Hillbilly D:
Matthew 24:36 is probably the better of the two.
pogo
December 17th, 2012
5:01 pm
The minute this happened the liberals jumped to the assault weapon thing and gun control. For whatever reason people (especially liberals) are programmed to first blame the inanimate/non-thinking devices used in such attacks rather than the person doing the attacking. And they also stay away from blaming the socialogical environment that created him/her and their social interactions as both children and adults even though that is the real reason. The socialogical part is the hard part so it is easier to blame the guns or whatever. 99% of the time, the real culprit is the persons mental health. The guns are not the problem, our system and our society is. Thanks to the progressive mindset, government ran schools are now set up not to “stigmatize” individuals students that are “different” or “mal-adjusted” or that show aberrant behaviour. They are taught to embrace the students differences and idiosyncracies from the norm no matter how weird. And worse yet, these peoples parents either don’t care enough or take time enough to know that their children are screwed up or don’t want to admit their child is troubled so the kids are most often diagnosed as being ADD or some other benign mental disorder which may or may not be real. Really you can’t expect our government ran schools to do anything because our government is inept at solving any social problem (much less diagnose mental illness in students) so most of the blame lies with the parents of the killers. Classically, mass murderers and serial killers have demonstrated their inclination towards madness at a very early age and the last few mass killers in this country are no different. And, from the limited and confused information about the Newton killer this seems to be exactly the same thing. Nobody picked up on his madness. He was just “different” or he had Asbergers Syndrome is all they thought even though the demonstrated to both his teachers and his parents that he had severe mental problems. Taking away guns won’t help this in the future because a kid of his intellect will figure out another and mayber worse way to rectify the “injustices” he thinks he has sufferred. No, the problem is not guns. It our “anything goes” and politically correct society that is to blame.
Mass murder can be carried out in any number of ways not involving a gun. Arson, poisoning, blowing up tanker trucks carrying lethal chemicals and any number of other unsavory things. Until the societal problem this country has is solved, there will continue to be mass killings. Its children are increasingly uncaring about anyone but themself,they are increasingly greedy and they increasingly consumed with pop culture (whatever that may be). They have no moral compass and they have no empathy for their fellow human beings. This country has lost its morality and its empathy and much of it can be blamed on the progressives. Not all, but a lot of it. And I am not talking about religion.
CC
December 17th, 2012
5:02 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday? :
Every one of them . . .
Del
December 17th, 2012
5:02 pm
On this forum and the one next door no one has made a good argument for banning so called semi-automatic firearms, ammunition or high capacity magazines by explaining how an underground of black market sales of these items could be avoided. Just passing feel good legislation that can’t be properly enforced and or creating illegal enterprises that would be less likely to keep these firearms out of the hands of criminals or the criminally insane isn’t keeping our children safe. These asinine comments that conservatives don’t mourn the loss of innocent people and only wish to selfishly keep their guns is nothing more than ignorant rhetoric containing no reasonable substance.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
5:03 pm
@Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
4:25 pm
Just Saying, it wasn’t conservatives who have attempted to disarm the general populace, leaving the innocent unprotected.
It’s you libs.
Their blood is on YOUR hands.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
VIOLENCE visited on OUR CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF “your” FREEDOM?
VIOLENCE visited on “YOUR” CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF “your” FREEDOM?
.
Del
December 17th, 2012
5:04 pm
On my last, should have been banning so called assault weapons.
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
5:05 pm
iberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012/4:25 pm
Just Saying, it wasn’t conservatives who have attempted to disarm the general populace, leaving the innocent unprotected.
It’s you libs.
Their blood is on YOUR hands.
Uh, Tib?
Kyle said w/o emotion. Remember?
CC
December 17th, 2012
5:05 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday? :\
To be accurate, I can only answer for myself. The answer is that I’ve slept very well.
Thanks for your concern!
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
5:09 pm
Pogo@5:01, Well said!
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
5:11 pm
“CCDecember 17th, 20125:02 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday? :
Every one of them . . .
CC, Kyle said Facts.
Got any?
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
5:16 pm
Kennesaw passed a law in 1982 law REQUIRING guns. The crime rate actually decreased.
http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/07/mandated-gun-ownership-a-tale-of-two-cities/
(It also got rid of the liberals.)
@@
December 17th, 2012
5:19 pm
I have deliberately waited to comment on the horrific mass shooting in Newtown, Conn., for a variety of reasons.
And you’re to be commended for that, Kyle.
All too often, the media and politicians seek to benefit from the raw emotions of grieving families.
A Time for Everything
…a time to tear and a time to mend
a time to be silent and a time to speak…
Romney
December 17th, 2012
5:21 pm
Linda cries about liberals @ 4:13 then makes her own snarky remark @ 5:16……
She must put hypocrisy and irony on everything. From her blog posts to her casseroles she just spread it around
CC
December 17th, 2012
5:22 pm
Linda’:
“(It also got rid of the liberals.)”
That alone was worth the passge of such a requirement . . .
Michael H. Smith
December 17th, 2012
5:22 pm
A few “good” points have been made none of which have to do with banning so-called asualt weapons. Interestingly, as it was pointed out by someone, Mexico has very strict gun control laws. In fact Mexico has only one, YES ONE, gun store as it was reported. However, no one, at least no one of sanity or honesty would dare claim Mexico has no deaths caused by guns, even “fully automatic” real military assault riffles – not just Simi-automatics – caused deaths.
All of this leaves me to believe that stricter guns laws cannot overcome societies willingness to accept violence as a common place occurance with a low value put on life and furthermore have very little support/funding for treating mental illness. This believe puts me in a political section that I’m not often accustomed to abide within, let alone voice openly support of it considering all things conservative. Although, this much I’ll give Mr. Obama, this is not the time for inaction rather appropriate actions, like finally getting real about making real mental health reforms with real funding which is too long overdue a reality.
Personally I don’t care for the amount of violence on TV, in the movies and video games, so I have no regrets to advocate placing a premium tax on these things or the addition of a premium tax on so-called assault rifles like the Simi-automatic Bushmaster AR15 to fund mental health.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
December 17th, 2012
5:26 pm
Only a conservative nutjob would believe the answer to gun violence is more guns.
Its a strange world they live in.
CC
December 17th, 2012
5:26 pm
Just Saying..:
“Got any?”
Yeah.
Refer my 5:05 post.
luangtom
December 17th, 2012
5:27 pm
The sad fact is that there are people out there that are willing to kill innocent children and the accompanying adults that try to save them. Another fact is that Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people in OKC without firing a single shot. Knee-jerk legislation will most likely occur and we will have the same success with a new War on Firearms that we have had with the War on Drugs. It will costs millions or billion to implement and enforce and not do a thing to keep the deadly weapons out of the hands of lunatics. Yes, I called the perpetrators that use firearms lunatics and it is not politcally-correct to do so. My bad.
We must, however, address how to avert future outrages by looking into our political-correctness in dealing with mental-illness. At what point do we can the rights of the impaired and consider the rights of the many they may impact? We medicate and send our ill off to schools and try to integrate them into society. Yet, the sad fact is, not all can be dealt with so easily. Exactly how much time is spent in trying to placate and settle their outbursts at the expense of not teaching and instructing the other main-stream students?
We send our children to pre-school, after-school and they are in school all day. Then, we put them into programs to keep them out of our hair and then we ship them off to their grandparents for the weekend so that the parents can have some more together-time. When did parenting become a part-time job? We now rely on our schools to instill values and morals and complain when this is not accomplished. What has happened to the America us old people grew up in? These are areas that need to be investigated and answers sought. A knee-jerk reaction to legislate will not quell the violence or the flow of deranged people into society.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
5:29 pm
Gun control laws will be no more effective than drug laws. The record on being able to ban and control “things” is long and totally without success.
If you oppose guns, don’t have one.
Romney
December 17th, 2012
5:30 pm
“If you oppose guns, don’t have one.”
Great post. I could be incorrect, but didn’t you post something about abortion? Excuse me if that was not you.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
December 17th, 2012
5:31 pm
Another fact is that Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people in OKC without firing a single shot.
True. But most people dont have military training in demolitions.
Your argument doesn’t hold water.
Funny how countries with strict gun laws dont have near the problem we do.
Its no coincidence.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
5:31 pm
@CC
December 17th, 2012
5:02 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday? :
Every one of them . . .
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN THE MURDERER OF THOSE 20 CHILDREN.
CC I bet you are a CRAZY CONSERVATIVE
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
5:34 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
5:29 pm
Gun control laws will be no more effective than drug laws. The record on being able to ban and control “things” is long and totally without success.
If you oppose guns, don’t have one.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lil BB IF YOU OPPOSE ABORTIONS, DON’T HAVE ONE.
heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
5:36 pm
Shouldn’t be a problem, sockpuppet!
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
5:38 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?: YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN THE MURDERER OF THOSE 20 CHILDREN.
———————
Yeah, it’s exactly the same thing, freedom-hater.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
5:39 pm
I have deliberately waited to comment on the horrific mass shooting in Newtown, Conn., for a variety of reasons.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.”
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
December 17th, 2012
5:39 pm
America in some ways is still like the wild west.
People love guns.
But is a heavy price we pay for that love affair.
A gun has but one purpose.
Kill another human being. Any fool can pull a trigger.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
December 17th, 2012
5:43 pm
The Allman Brothers said it best I think
Well hand guns are made for killin’
They ain’t no good for nothin’ else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don’t we dump ‘em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some ole fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me
JR
December 17th, 2012
5:45 pm
Reality check for people who want to ban things they have almost no knowledge of:
I am a gun owner. I am a hunter. I am a law-abiding citizen.
I hunt deer with a Colt AR-15. It is a fantastic rifle- very light weight, very little recoil, and very easy to shoot accurately. The round that it uses is 5.56×45. This is significantly less powerful than traditional hunting rifles but I like using it for the low recoil and low weight(Hey, it sucks carrying a 10+ lb rifle on a 10 mile hike!). A lot of hunters won’t use the .223/5.56 because they are worried it isn’t powerful enough. I don’t mind the challenge personally- it just means I have to carefully pick my shots. My aging father-in-law also switched to an AR-15 recently for the light weight and low recoil. His 65 year old body wanted less weight to carry through the woods.
I also shoot in competition. I, again, shoot an AR-15 for its low recoil and fantastic accuracy. The bullets and brass it uses are very small and generally cost significantly less than “traditional” long range calibers. Still, accuracy and recoil are winners for me.
I am a homeowner and a husband. We use(you guessed it!) an AR-15 in our home for self defense. Why? Because it is safer, easier to use, and more effective than a shotgun, pistol, or “traditional” hunting rifle. My 5′ 100lb wife is able to lift it with ease(light weight!) and handle the low recoil without flinching. The ammunition, contrary to the fear-mongering of the MSM, is actually less likely to penetrate walls and pose a danger to neighbors. The adjustable stock(one of those EVIL Assault Weapon features…) allows both me and my wife to shoot the same rifle comfortably despite me being full foot taller.
None of this really matters though. Why? Because we are not a need-based society. We have never defined what is legal based on what people “need” to have. It flies in the face of the founding principles of the republic. People do not “need” sports cars, scotch, bicycles, pools, or fatty red meats but we have the freedom to own and consume these things regardless of the dangers associated with them. We are a FREE society and unfortunately true freedom is inherently dangerous. We compromise our “safety” in favor of Liberty every day.
Despite what you have been hearing on CNN and MSNBC, there are plenty of legitimate uses for these “evil” rifles. Please don’t believe the hype. Trying to ban AR-15s is like trying to ban Ford Mustangs.
Rightwing Troll
December 17th, 2012
5:49 pm
“It’s you libs.
Their blood is on YOUR hands.”
No cryberious… it’s on you and your ilks hands, who glorify guns, embrace coarsness and corrosiveness and ignore civility, then screech “slippery slope” and “jack booted thugs” at the first mention of sensible measures.
It’s wholly you and yours, man up and own it. From Koresh, to Columbine to Aurora, to Newtown all perpetrated and implicitly allowed by nuts like you who screamed for it, now run away from it…
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
5:52 pm
Romney@5:21, The previous poster attacked me personally, calling me by name. He could not disagree with me without being disagreeable. I made a general remark against liberals, which is a bit different. BTW, do you know any gun-owning liberals who live in Kennesaw?
Please do no confuse me with Mr. Snarky.
Thank you for reminding me about my ironing & the casserole I need to take care of. Let me know when you need a recipe.
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
5:52 pm
Did Rafe ever come up with his extensive list of those serial murderers who use tuna sandwiches, salad bowls, etc?
And you gridlocked xenophobes can have Kennesaw. LOL!
Cheesy, it was Lynyrd Skynyrd…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWBoeY0AAec
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
5:52 pm
Cheesy Grits @ 5:43
That wasn’t the Allman’s it was Lynyrd Skynyrd.
And in my opinion, everybody here ought to ratchet it down a bit. Nobody on this blog has “blood on their hands” for this incident. Not a soul here had anything to do with it; it’s on the perpetrator and him alone.
Hopeful
December 17th, 2012
5:53 pm
People fight over stuff in WAlmarts when they have a sale it’s crazy out their
JR
December 17th, 2012
5:56 pm
@ Cheesy Grits:
“Funny how countries with strict gun laws dont have near the problem we do.
Its no coincidence.”
________________
By the way, Harvard disagrees with you:
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf
In fact all of the empirical data from the last 20+ years has shown that there really isn’t a correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates. Homicide rates are a symptom of underlying social and cultural issues regardless of gun ownership.
According to the ATF these evil assault weapons are only used in 1.5% of all gun related crimes(which translates to a fraction of a percent of all murders). They actually are not the “weapon of choice” for criminals in America.
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
5:57 pm
The NRA & the conservatives have conceded. We are willing to ban guns who automatically & semi-automatically kill people, all by their lonesome.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
5:57 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
5:38 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?: YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN THE MURDERER OF THOSE 20 CHILDREN.
———————
Yeah, it’s exactly the same thing, freedom-hater.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yeah, it’s exactly the same thing, gun toting children killer.
rightwing troll
December 17th, 2012
5:59 pm
This gun owning liberal lives in Kennesaw… what of it???
JDW
December 17th, 2012
5:59 pm
@Kyle…”Are we trying to reduce arrests or deaths?”
We are trying to reduce violence in our society which by extension could mean both….it is a simple fact….more guns equal more violence…
“More than 31,000 people a year in the United States die from gunshot wounds. Because
victims are disproportionately young, gun violence is one of the leading causes of premature
mortality in the U.S. In addition to these deaths, in 2010, there were an estimated 337,960 nonfatal
violent crimes committed with guns, and 73,505 persons treated in hospital emergency
departments for non-fatal gunshot wounds.
Gun violence in the United States is unusually high for a nation of such wealth. Although
there is little difference in the overall crime rates between the United States and other high income
countries, the homicide rate in the U.S. is seven times higher than the combined
homicide rate of 22 other high-income countries.4 This is because the firearm homicide rate in
the U.S. is twenty times greater than in these other high-income countries. The higher prevalence
of gun ownership and much less restrictive gun laws are important reasons why violent crime in
the U.S. is so much more lethal than in countries of similar income levels”
http://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-center-for-gun-policy-and-research/publications/WhitePaper102512_CGPR.pdf
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
5:59 pm
@Linda`
December 17th, 2012
5:57 pm
The NRA & the conservatives have conceded. We are willing to ban guns who automatically & semi-automatically kill people, all by their lonesome.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is NO LAUGHING MATTER.
VIOLENCE visited on OUR CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF “your” FREEDOM?
VIOLENCE visited on “YOUR” CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF “your” FREEDOM?
curious
December 17th, 2012
6:03 pm
All you posters saying gun control won’t work,
keep whistling. You didn’t believe Obamacare would be upheld and you were postive Romney would win in a landslide.
maintain your position of no compromise and no suggestion other than more guns, you’ll be steamrolled, again.
getalife
December 17th, 2012
6:05 pm
“God has called them all home” President Obama.
You cons might want to read his spiritual speech.
Parents are demanding change so there will be change.
The massacre of 20 children at schools was the red line crossed.
Start working on accepting it con.
JDW
December 17th, 2012
6:06 pm
“Your link to the 2009 article on increase use of guns in crimes is belied by the fact that homicides are at an all time low.”
Which is a function of improved tramua care.
“The number of U.S. homicides has been falling for two decades, but America has become no less violent.
Crime experts who attribute the drop in killings to better policing or an aging population fail to square the image of a more tranquil nation with this statistic: The reported number of people treated for gunshot attacks from 2001 to 2011 has grown by nearly half. ”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324712504578131360684277812.html
MarkV
December 17th, 2012
6:08 pm
Bob Costas hit the nail on its head when he talked about “culture of guns” as the problem, except that he talked only about NFL. It applies just as well apply that to the nation. Many comments here are an evidence for that.
Romney
December 17th, 2012
6:09 pm
Linda
You are the semantics queen for sure.
and yes, I know several lefties in Kennesaw. Based on that fact, your statement was either born out of ignorance or just a lie for the sake of lying……..
JDW
December 17th, 2012
6:12 pm
“Neither guns or guns used by this little maniac/resourceful fellow the issue. He wouldve completed his mission with or without a gun. He wouldve found a way becaue there is always a way.”
Maybe…maybe not…isn’t it our responsiblity to make it as hard as possible for the nutjobs? Why should we make it so easy?
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
6:13 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
5:38 pm
@Linda`
December 17th, 2012
5:57 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Now I know why “YOU” are on the defensive.
“Why Most Mass Murderers Are Privileged White Men”
(ENTITLEMENT?)
written by Hugo Schwyzer,
Presents an interesting argument about the statistics regarding mass shootings.
Studies show that although rates of general shootings and homicides are about the same for all racial backgrounds, a LARGE percentage of mass murders are committed by affluent white males.
According to Schwyzer, white, upper-middle class men grow up with a sense of ENTITLEMENT.
Affluent, white, males often feel that everything BELONGS to them, because they grew up without having to work for or fight for much of what they were given.
When their feeling of ownership is challenged, a variety of psychological problems can cause them to react violently, in a way that people who grew up differently might not behave. The feeling of ENTITLEMENT of public places that well-off white men feel, causes a confidence that people with other backgrounds most likely do not have.
This confidence becomes a problem when violence is introduced, because these men now feel like they have control in public situations, and lack the fear that many others may have. Not only who wealthy white men feel that they have ownership and power over public places, but they feel that they should have power over the general people. They grow up expecting that their voice will be heard amongst society, believing that they can attain anything that they set out to.
This causes these affluent white males to believe that their pain should be heard by others too, that if the public was unable to solve their problems, then they should have to bear the burden as well.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
6:16 pm
@curious
December 17th, 2012
6:03 pm
All you posters saying gun control won’t work,
keep whistling. You didn’t believe Obamacare would be upheld and you were postive Romney would win in a landslide.
maintain your position of no compromise and no suggestion other than more guns, you’ll be steamrolled, again.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CONS are LOSERS.
They can’t HANDLE THE TRUTH.
Reality
December 17th, 2012
6:34 pm
There is no valid reason for assault weapons. No hunters use them. For protection, there are many other choices. A handgun is a better selection for protection then some automatic rifle (or semi- for that matter).
Our gun laws are currently in place due to the powerful gun lobby. These are gun collectors and the like. They have ZERO interest in how this is impacting our society and killing innocent children and adults.
Reason must prevail.
Tealiban Party
December 17th, 2012
6:35 pm
Why not look to Australia, where an assault rifle ban was instituted several years ago.
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
6:35 pm
How many@5:59, NO ONE is laughing at the tragedy. Conservatives are laughing at liberals for pointing the finger at the method the murderer used rather than at the murderer. What is inappropriate is liberals USING the tragedy for political purposes, to further their age-old agenda for banning guns.
There are 3 issues here. One is psychological. Liberals should be shaking in their boots. Obama is going after people who act weird.
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
6:37 pm
A large number (probably most) hunters use semi-automatic weapons. Automatic weapons have been regulated since 1934.
@@
December 17th, 2012
6:40 pm
From the mouths of babes….
One day a little girl was sitting and watching her mother do the dishes at the kitchen sink. She suddenly noticed that her mother had several strands of white hair sticking out in contrast on her brunette head.
She looked at her mother and inquisitively asked, ‘Why are some of your hairs white, Mommy?’
Her mother replied, ‘Well, every time that you do something wrong and make me cry or unhappy, one of my hairs turns white.’
The little girl thought about this revelation for a while and then said, ‘Mommy, how come ALL of grandma’s hairs are white?’
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
6:46 pm
Romney@6:09, There’s some liberals left in Kennesaw? Well, I guess they either stayed there or moved there so that their friends & family wouldn’t know they were wussies. Must be moochers depending on their gun-toting neighbors to deter crime in their neighborhoods.
Speaking of ignorance & sake, do you know the shelf-life of a bottle of it? I need it for a recipe.
BTW, how’s Ann?
@@
December 17th, 2012
6:47 pm
Another one…
The children were lined up in the cafeteria of a Catholic elementary school for lunch. At the head of the table was a large pile of apples. The nun made a note, and posted on the apple tray:
‘Take only ONE … God is watching.’
Moving further along the lunch line, at the other end of the table was a large pile of chocolate chip cookies.
A child had written a note, ‘Take all you want. God is watching the apples.’
My apologies if anyone is offended…it’s how I cope.
getalife
December 17th, 2012
6:49 pm
If they are going after the kooks, you cons should stop blogging.
CC
December 17th, 2012
6:52 pm
“In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 66.9% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm. There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000. The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,[6] with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.”
• “42% of people believed they had personally experienced a medical mistake (NPSF survey)
• 44,000 to 98,000 deaths annually from medical errors (Institute of Medicine)
• 225,000 deaths annually from medical errors including 106,000 deaths due to “nonerror adverse events of medications” (Starfield)
• 180,000 deaths annually from medication errors and adverse reactions (Holland)
• 20,000 annually to 88,000 deaths annually from nosocomial infections
• 2.9 to 3.7 percent of hospitalizations leading to adverse medication reactions
• 7,391 deaths resulted from medication errors (Institute of Medicine)
• 2.4 to 3.6 percent of hospital admissions were due to (prescription) medication events (Australian study)
Maybe we should be considering a ban on doctors and hospitals?
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
6:58 pm
CC
A couple of weeks back on C-Span there was a doctor who said medical mistakes are the number 3 killer in the U.S., behind heart disease and cancer. That’s a scary thought.
Romney
December 17th, 2012
7:04 pm
Linda
Not sure about ignorance. Figured you had it in your cabinet along with all the hypocrisy and irony that you put on everything.
Ann is doing great. Still crying because I lost, but she is a trooper and will move on, eventually
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
7:05 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?:
“VIOLENCE visited on OUR CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF “your” FREEDOM?
VIOLENCE visited on “YOUR” CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF “your” FREEDOM?”
Violence visited on these and other children is the price of your INTERFERENCE in everyone’s FREEDOM.
Their blood is on YOUR hands, libs.
CC
December 17th, 2012
7:07 pm
Hillbilly:
That is also what I read.
luangtom
December 17th, 2012
7:07 pm
Cheesy Grits @ 5:37 PM – No it is no coincidence. We have a country of bleeding-hearts that want to medicate instead of incarcerate, too. Could that be part of the problem of people fearing no real consequence of doing evil things to innocents? It does not take a demolition-expert to mix fertilizer and fuel-oil together. If one is intent on doing evil, look online and see what you find. We just have people in this country that have not lived elsewhere, have not faced consequences for their actions and know they will be glorified in the media for their evil deeds. To some, they will be folk-heroes, even though to others they will be villains. This upcoming War on Guns will be as successful as our War on Drugs has been.
@@
December 17th, 2012
7:14 pm
Kyle:
Domenech’s Transom newsletter was EXACTLY what I needed to read.
THANK YOU X 3!!!!!
Shaniqua
December 17th, 2012
7:15 pm
“…it was the only one that posted signs saying it banned concealed handguns carried by law-abiding individuals”
First time I’ve heard of that Kyle, interesting. The libs of course will say it was merely coincidence that he picked that particular theater. Left (pun intended) up to them we’d all be helpless sheep just waiting our turns to be murdered by the crazies…it wouldn’t do to have someone shoot back and offend the shooter’s “feeeelings”.
Dusty
December 17th, 2012
7:15 pm
Well, I see Cheesy Grits is back with another ID.
I also see all the gun opponents are lined up to fight with tooth and nail.
I see that Australia bans guns.. (OK, you kangeroo, what’s that you got in your pocket????)
I feel left out. I don’t have a single friend packing a gun but many have been in the military and know how to use them. But most of them do have some type of gun at home.
Violence is perpertrated by violent people. That is the problem. ” We should reach out to the disturbed who are usually disenfranchised by society ” said my minister Sunday. Now that is a thought that few have presented. I wonder why? Makes it a personal responsibility, doesn’t it? .
CC
December 17th, 2012
7:18 pm
Hillbilly:
“A large number (probably most) hunters use semi-automatic weapons. Automatic weapons have been regulated since 1934.”
I appreciate your comment. Unfortunately, the people who espouse much tougher gun control laws or the outright banning of all guns are woefully ignorant as it relates to weapon description (automatic/semi-automatic, etc.) and the current laws pertaining to guns. I doubt that many of them know that a federal firearms license is required to even own an automatic weapon. I can guarantee you that none of them know what is involved in obtaining a federal firearm license!
Michael H. Smith
December 17th, 2012
7:26 pm
Liberals can save their same old tired insane gun ban rhetoric. Want to talk about living in a strange demented disconnected world, when right next door in Mexico, which has gun control laws stricter than anything these left-wing bed-wetter kooks could ever hope to pass in this country and with Mexico’s horrendous amounts of gun caused deaths and violence looking them in their faces of denial truly defines brain dead.
Not all of these illegal guns are coming from the U.S. into Mexico and should U.S. sources dry-up you can bet new ones from other countries will meet the demand.
By the way Libs… Prohibition: How did that ban work for us?
Get a live brain, ban usually don’t work as to often purported and this problem is more complex and goes way beyond your myopic over-focus on a gun or guns.
In Mexico, only one gun store but no dearth of violence
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/28/AR2010122803644.html
Boomsheeka
December 17th, 2012
7:32 pm
Dusty
December 17th, 2012
7:15 pm
“I don’t have a single friend packing a gun”
…that you know of. I’ve packed heat for years and my friends don’t know. Usually not something you advertise.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
7:33 pm
Mexico, only one gun store…
———————-
I guess that doesn’t count the one Obozo set up to get “assault weapons” into that country.
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
7:39 pm
Romney@7:04, You’re not sure about ignorance? Well, that’s saying a lot! I now how it is. I used to vote Democrat before I matured & figured out that all liberals want to do is bankrupt the country in the name of compassion.
You’re not the real Romney! Ann has never cried a day in her life, not even when she thought she was dying, twice. Romney did not LOOSE the election. Obama WON the election because he bought it with our tax dollars. It was substance V stuff, & stuff won. Democrats won the presidential battle but every citizen will loose the fiscal war, along with our economy & country.
Romney
December 17th, 2012
7:43 pm
He set up a store or did the ATF use existing AZ laws and stores to purchase those guns?
You do know the facts, right?
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
7:47 pm
MHS
Speaking of Mexican gun control laws and their absurdity, what about that former Marine chained to his bed in a terrible prison, for possessing a shot gun he brought into the country during a hunting trip. Apparently he presented the shotgun to the authorities and wanted to find out if he could legally possess it. They threw him in prison. I think many of the Libs would like similar enthusiastic gun enforcement here.
Scores of people killed there daily with automatic weapons and they are worried about a shotgun and some birdshot. Don’t know if it was SEMI Automatic or not. (That seems to be the key for the anti gun crowd today)
Romney
December 17th, 2012
7:48 pm
“You’re not the real Romney!”
Kyle: Give Linda the Gold Star of the day………… Took here awhile but she figured out I wasn’t Mitt Romney. She got me
Look at the big brain on Linda
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
7:49 pm
The sad thing is that the blogger calling himself “Romney” couldn’t hold a candle to the real one.
The real one has too much principle, success and intelligence.
The blogger? Not even close.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
7:52 pm
Romney: He set up a store or did the ATF use existing AZ laws and stores to purchase those guns?
———————
No sense of humor on this ^^^ one.
It was more of a “virtual” store. Of course, no one cares too much about all the brown people those F&F guns killed. They were never going to contribute to the campaign.
CC
December 17th, 2012
7:53 pm
From the CDC for 2005, published Dec 2009.
#1 – Salmonella
#96 – Motor Vehicle Accidents
#99 – Accidental Falls
#100 – Accidental Discharge of Firearms
#101 – Accidental Drowning
#105 – Suicide by Firearm
#106 – Suicide by other means
#107 – Homicide by firearm
#108 – Homicide by other instrument
#113 – Complications of Medical Care
Michael H. Smith
December 17th, 2012
7:54 pm
It’s the same old crap of guns kill people. A gun usually has a trigger that must be pulled by another person.
Best fear the person and their mental state that is behind the trigger of that gun, more than the gun.
Romney
December 17th, 2012
7:54 pm
Tiberius
Still down with the ODS since the election.
It is ok little fella…. it is ok
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
7:55 pm
If Fast and Furious had gone according to plan, it is my opinion that Holder/Obama would have had all this sympathy and outrage to work with much sooner. It blew up in their face however.
We know almost everything about this school shooting, all the microscopic details, in only 72 hours, and yet after 2 years we don’t know many of the details of F/F and after 90 days don’t know squat about Benghazi. If the press is motivated they can get answers quickly, even at the point of providing much false info.
Caution to the wind, if the news fits their agenda. When discussing Benghazi and F/F, their excuse is they don’t want to speculate, not enough facts available, we have to wait.
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
7:56 pm
#1 – Salmonella
I’ve had that. Believe that’s the sickest I’ve ever been.
CC
December 17th, 2012
8:03 pm
LBB:
“They were never going to contribute to the campaign.”
I still believe that F&F was Holder’s plan to begin the implementation of banning gun ownership completely. Unfortunately for him, this proved a botched operation causing the deaths of hundreds, including the death of a U. S. Border Patrol Agent. Obama, Clinton and Holder are still determined to ban the ownership of all guns in the U. S.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
8:04 pm
CC
Drownings kill more people that firearms. Yet, their is no government program to teach children to swim. This is a special problem in the minority community where access to safe swimming sites is limited and the parents of minority children often can’t swim themselves and fear the water.
I have brought this up in city/county commission meetings and people look at you like, you are just trying to stir up trouble and cause us to spend money we don’t have. Their used to be a program in the university system that you couldn’t graduate, without demonstrating an ability to swim. Program dropped, people did not like it. Every year in the summer we read of needless drownings of children.
Sorry, to get on a rant, but this is something that could easily be tackled and never is.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
8:05 pm
“Still down with the ODS since the election.”
No ODS here, sonny. I just know the real Romney is head and shoulders above President Incompetent, and galactically better than you are or ever will be.
Are you that inadequate that you have to prop yourself up on a blog by using his name?
Romney
December 17th, 2012
8:07 pm
Tiberius
Cry on sonny
“Color me shocker”
“I accept your surrender”
Romney
December 17th, 2012
8:08 pm
“I still believe that F&F was Holder’s plan to begin the implementation of banning gun ownership completely.”
Explain with facts and not hyperbole, rhetoric and lies exactly how this would have been implemented through Congress and the Supreme Court………….
Thought so…….
Romney
December 17th, 2012
8:14 pm
CC
Just post the whack wing website where you read the “great plan” ( black helicopter conspiracy theory) to ban guns……….
thanks
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
8:14 pm
Gravy Stain is that you?
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
8:15 pm
Rafe
Not sure about now but when I was a kid, the YMCA had good programs for teaching kids to swim.
Hard to understand what the downside of it would be. Good exercise, kids learn to do something that a) they might enjoy and b) might even save their life someday and it gives them something to do and keeps them out of trouble. I can understand if there’s no place to house it but if there is, it’s a no-brainer, to me.
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
8:18 pm
RIP Daniel Inouye.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
8:19 pm
Heck, our YMCA had a program to teach kids how to safely handle and shoot a little .22 rifle, and then clean it. Try starting a program like that today, with all the pantywaists running around the countryside these days.
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
8:20 pm
“Violence visited on these and other children is the price of your INTERFERENCE in everyone’s FREEDOM.
Their blood is on YOUR hands, libs.”
Tib, I can’t possibly be the first, but I would like to add my voice to others:
You need help, man.
Romney
December 17th, 2012
8:21 pm
Rafe
help CC out
thought so
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 17th, 2012
8:21 pm
Nikki Haley appoints Rep. Tim Scott to Senate
The only black Congressman in the Senate, he’s a Republican.
Must be that those democrats are………racists.
Romney
December 17th, 2012
8:22 pm
Hillbilly
yes
RIP Daniel Inouye.
CC
December 17th, 2012
8:25 pm
Rafe:
We’re thinking along the same lines. If I hadn’t been distracted by a phone call and had read your post before submitting mine, I’d have cancelled it.
Gravy Stain would be a possibility, I think . . . but I favor another choice.
Romney
December 17th, 2012
8:29 pm
still no facts
hmmmmmmm
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
8:31 pm
Kyle could make himself a few bucks on the side if he’d just publish a program, so we could keep up with who is who here. Me, I’m too lazy to spend time thinking up another name.
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
8:33 pm
Romney@7:48, Boy, you’ve had me fooled for weeks! Here, I was thinking that you were that highly successful businessman who can not stand a line of red ink on a balance sheet, who actually knows what a balance sheet looks like & knows that it should have, ah, have a balance, who knows that spending money that we do not have for junk we do not need has never & will never stimulate the economy, who could have turned the USA around into a productive economy.
If you’re not Romney, who are you? Why do you feel the need to be an imposter? One of those liberal ego thingies?
I’ll give the Gold Star to the real Romney any day, the one with the bigger brain.
rightwing troll
December 17th, 2012
8:33 pm
It’s lying old cranks gone wild in here…
Heh… I don’t blame them for being angry, they woke up Saturday morning and looked in the mirror and realized what they’ve done to this country over the last couple decades… It’s ok Cryberious, we forgive you, and we can clean up you and your ilk’s mess, you just focus on not making any more messes… OK?
rightwing troll
December 17th, 2012
8:36 pm
You too Linda… we got it sweetcheeks… you’ve done enough…
Romney
December 17th, 2012
8:39 pm
Hillbilly
Funny when bloggers get worked up about who is who. The main ones worrying about it have changed their names a few times, especially after being “bounced”………………
yet they scurry around like hens in a chicken coop…… quite amusing to say the least………..
oh well, at least I always thank them for the belly laughs they provide and their helicopter conspiracy theories
@@
December 17th, 2012
8:59 pm
This is a special problem in the minority community where access to safe swimming sites is limited and the parents of minority children often can’t swim themselves and fear the water.
That is SOOOOOO TRUE.
ISR is the way to go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A78QiQ61oBM
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
9:01 pm
Hillbilly and LBB
Yep, the YMCA and the YWCA (not sure they can still call it that with PC so prevalent) still offer swimming lessons. Seems once again it requires a responsible parent to go to the effort to take the kids to all those lessons and pay the fee. For many, who don’t have parents who swim or parents who care to go through all that effort, the kids never learn. They drown in alarming numbers every summer.
I sure don’t think we need any more government programs or anymore requirements, but local governments could surely do a little more PR to make people aware of the problem and encourage parents to make the efforts to teach their youngens to swim. There have so much PR spent by the Gov, on car seats for children, safe cribs, poison prevention packaging, etc, but drowning although a significant problem, gets no PR.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 17th, 2012
9:04 pm
The hit dog always hollers!
Not so independent thinker
December 17th, 2012
9:06 pm
How many cons here have armed themselves to the teeth since Obama was elected in 2008? Ready to battle tyranny? Ready for the total collapse of law and order in the USA??Sure Obama is going to try to take your guns away Think the second amendment gives you fundamental god given right to own a gun?. If so you are sick like the shooter’s mother. and part of the problem.
Glad he got her first-she deserved it.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 17th, 2012
9:06 pm
The media rarely mention the mass murders that were thwarted by armed citizens at the Shoney’s Restaurant in Anniston, Ala. (1991), the high school in Pearl, Miss. (1997), the middle-school dance in Edinboro, Penn. (1998), and the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo. (2007), among others.
It doesn’t fit the socialist narrative.
Romney
December 17th, 2012
9:07 pm
Rafe
Why can’t CC and yourself back up your Fast and Furious bs?
Guess you can’t “holla” with as much truth as you do hyperbole, huh?
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
9:15 pm
Rafe
The YMCA/YWCA still go by those names in my neck of the woods. Not sure about other places.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
9:15 pm
WHY????????????
WHY LIL BARRY? Since you are a KNOW-IT-ALL. TELL US WHY.
“Why Most Mass Murderers Are Privileged White Men”
(ENTITLEMENT?)
written by Hugo Schwyzer,
Presents an interesting argument about the statistics regarding mass shootings.
Studies show that although rates of general shootings and homicides are about the same for all racial backgrounds, a LARGE percentage of mass murders are committed by affluent white males.
According to Schwyzer, white, upper-middle class men grow up with a sense of ENTITLEMENT.
Affluent, white, males often feel that everything BELONGS to them, because they grew up without having to work for or fight for much of what they were given.
When their feeling of ownership is challenged, a variety of psychological problems can cause them to react violently, in a way that people who grew up differently might not behave. The feeling of ENTITLEMENT of public places that well-off white men feel, causes a confidence that people with other backgrounds most likely do not have.
This confidence becomes a problem when violence is introduced, because these men now feel like they have control in public situations, and lack the fear that many others may have. Not only who wealthy white men feel that they have ownership and power over public places, but they feel that they should have power over the general people. They grow up expecting that their voice will be heard amongst society, believing that they can attain anything that they set out to.
This causes these affluent white males to believe that their pain should be heard by others too, that if the public was unable to solve their problems, then they should have to bear the burden as well.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
9:22 pm
Romney:
I think you’re good on your screen name.
There Was a POTUS Romney posting here weeks ago.
Haven’t seen him since Nov 6…
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
9:23 pm
rightwing@8:36, If you were an employer & called one of your female employees what you just called me, you would be successfully sued for millions, whether you were intellectually able to use correct punctuation or not, which you are not.
It is very apparent that you are intimidated by a highly educated & intelligent, & may I also add successful, woman who consistantly calls the bluff of liberals & exposes their perverted agenda. Liberals espouse the rights of women but, hypocritically, refer to their anatomy totally inappropriately to prove without a shadow of a doubt that their true agenda is to suppress the rights & accomplishments of all women.
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
9:24 pm
The kid who did this killing was a white male but I have a hard time seeing him as “affluent”.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
9:25 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?: WHY LIL BARRY? Since you are a KNOW-IT-ALL. TELL US WHY…“Why Most Mass Murderers Are Privileged White Men”
————————-
I have no idea. This seems to be of some importance to you though. Perhaps you can tell us why.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 17th, 2012
9:27 pm
What sort of racist trash is this at 9:15?
Are you going to take this garbage down, Kyle or open up the door to some relevant comparisons?
Romney
December 17th, 2012
9:29 pm
Just saying…….. I might change it to President Romney. Numerous bloggers were saying it was all over but the voting right up until the evening of the election when it became a ghost town around here……………..
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
9:32 pm
A little biographical tidbit on “How many opponents” new hero, Hugo Schwyzer:
By his own admission, he spent much of the 1990s addicted to various drugs and alcohol. His sobriety began after his attempted murder-suicide in 1998. In the interview that sparked controversy on Feministe, he said that his sex with students (including four on one school trip he chaperoned) had been “deeply and profoundly wrong,” but added that it made him “keenly sensitive to power imbalances in sexual relationships.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/02/exile-in-gal-ville-how-a-male-feminist-alienated-his-supporters/252915/
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
9:33 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
9:25 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It should be of some importance to everyone. Maybe there is something
here we need to examine and explore.
I just thought you would have a comment since you have a comment
about everything else.
You are an Obama EXPERT I thought maybe you were an EXPERT
on this topic as well. I guess not.
I hope I did not STEP ON ANYONE’S TOES.
@@
December 17th, 2012
9:34 pm
Sleeper @ 9:15
“Why Most Mass Murderers Are Privileged White Men”
thbbppbbbt
A rundown of mass murderers over the last 30 years.
Point to the affluent ones.
Most of ‘em were work related.
Romney
December 17th, 2012
9:35 pm
The killings were not one of a racial component and I do not see the benefit of looking at it that way. Nor have a read where it was. Bringing in a racial component on this issue isn’t going to help in any way that I can see nor is it relevant.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
9:36 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
9:32 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you for that info; however, is he a “Privileged White Man”?
@@
December 17th, 2012
9:37 pm
Most of ‘em were white, but I have a hard time seeing them as affluent.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
9:39 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?: I thought maybe you were an EXPERT on this topic as well.
———————-
No, I’m not an expert in topics you fabricate using a combination of sloppy research by others mixed with your own biases.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
9:40 pm
@Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 17th, 2012
9:27 pm
What sort of racist trash is this at 9:15?
Are you going to take this garbage down, Kyle or open up the door to some relevant comparisons?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Racist trash?
This subject is relevant to the debate.
Don’t blame me,,,blame GOOGLE.
Did I hurt your feelings?
Did I step on your toes?
Is this something you are ashamed of?
I just thought we could have an intelligent debate.
Guess not.
GOOD NIGHT.
I hope all of you SLEEP WELL.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
9:43 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?: Thank you for that info; however, is he a “Privileged White Man”?
———————
I didn’t get that impression. Sounds more like he has some serious mommy issues.
Why do you ask?
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
9:43 pm
@@
December 17th, 2012
9:37 pm
Most of ‘em were white, but I have a hard time seeing them as affluent.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I did not write the article.
I did not call them affluent.
Google the author.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
9:46 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
9:43 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why did I ask?
He sounds like he has serious ISSUES LIKE THE PEOPLE
HE IS WRITING ABOUT.
@@
December 17th, 2012
9:48 pm
I hope all of you SLEEP WELL.
Stalkers can be creepy!
We’ve got more than our fair share here at Kyle’s.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
9:48 pm
So what do you suggest we do with this information, “How many”?
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 17th, 2012
9:48 pm
The racial composition of the US population as of 2008 was 79.79% European American (65.60% non-Hispanic and 14.19% Hispanic), 12.84% African American…. 49% of all murder or manslaughter arrests were of white individuals. 48% of murder or manslaughter arrests were of black individuals.
That means four times as many murderers are black. Four times as many murderers are black.
And the biggest problem you overlook, good slobbering sleep, ALL of the white mass murderers were mental defectives.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
9:51 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
9:39 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?: I thought maybe you were an EXPERT on this topic as well.
———————-
No, I’m not an expert in topics you fabricate using a combination of sloppy research by others mixed with your own biases.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
FABRICATE?
BIASES?
ANYONE CAN GOOGLE THIS ARTICLE.
I GOOGLED MASS MURDERERS AND THAT IS WHAT I GOT.
YOU DON’T SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM FABRICATING LIES ABOUT OBAMA.
POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK?
TAKE A LOOK IN THE MIRROR IF YOU ARE NOT AFRAID TO.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 17th, 2012
9:53 pm
Let’s not forget that the “white guy” was from the most virulently liberal state in the nation, Konnetikut.
Anybody else remember or heard from lately the blogger known as “god hates trash?”
From Konnektikut.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
9:56 pm
@Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 17th, 2012
9:48 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
SOP…..DON’T TAKE IT PERSONAL.
SORRY I OFFENDED YOU.
DO YOU KNOW ANY MASS MURDERERS?
I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL WHEN YOU THINK SOMEONE HAS
INSULTED YOUR RACE.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
9:58 pm
@Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 17th, 2012
9:53 pm
Let’s not forget that the “white guy” was from the most virulently liberal state in the nation, Konnetikut.
Anybody else remember or heard from lately the blogger known as “god hates trash?”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WHAT KIND OF TRASH?
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
9:58 pm
The only black Congressman in the Senate, he’s a Republican
And now that that slimeball Alan West got kicked to the curb, you GOPers have exactly ZERO black US Representatives. Again, as almost always. You Klannners have had ZERO since JC Watts in the 1980s. And he is but one of five (FIVE???????) in the past 110 years
This is one topic that you All White Party nutjobs and bigots should run from…
But Asop is not even smart enough to keep his mouth shut about it.
Too funny.
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
10:01 pm
Aesop@9:27, He’s the same vermin that overwhelmed Kyle’s blog several months ago, beginning on a Sat. or Sun. & never gave up until Kyle’s bloggers left & he was talking to himself. He has the same MO & format, like a union member who has to have his way, or else. He has ADD or ADHD & can’t contain himself.
Black Label
December 17th, 2012
10:01 pm
Jam
Aesop is your ole buddy………………..
The vitriol should have given him away , if you haven’t guessed already.
Aesop: check you out next time when you are “report”ing for duty
nite
Question Man
December 17th, 2012
10:03 pm
KW: Evaluating facts is key to the debate about what can be done about mass killings, but why is a recitation of a discrete set of facts supporting only one’s traditional position a helpful way to get the community involved in the debate?
Steven
December 17th, 2012
10:03 pm
Here comes this silly butt response to the tragedy……’let the facts guide the debate and not emotion’! Please get a life and stop writing this foolish statements. These assault weapons guns serves no good in our society!
clem
December 17th, 2012
10:05 pm
reminds me of many on this blog:
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/tennessee-pastor-mass-shootings-because-scho
@@
December 17th, 2012
10:07 pm
It’s always amusing to watch AmVet celebrate how dems can lay claim to more blacks than the GOP.
Flexing his quotas?
THAT’S funny.
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
10:10 pm
It;s funny how @@ loves her little racist right wing boys.
I love it too.
Stay all white and all gentile, my friends.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
10:11 pm
@Linda`
December 17th, 2012
10:01 pm
Aesop@9:27, He’s the same vermin that overwhelmed Kyle’s blog several months ago, beginning on a Sat. or Sun. & never gave up until Kyle’s bloggers left & he was talking to himself. He has the same MO & format, like a union member who has to have his way, or else. He has ADD or ADHD & can’t contain himself.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
VERMIN??????
That term has GONE WITH THE WIND and SO ARE YOU.
“I’ll think about it tomorrow, after all tomorrow is another day.”
“Fiddle-dee Linda.”
“As God is my witness I will never insult anyone on this blog again.”
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 17th, 2012
10:16 pm
FACT – Only one black Senator and he is a Republican.
Deal with it.
@@
December 17th, 2012
10:21 pm
AmVet:
Scott is where he is because he’s a conservative first and foremost. The fact that he’s black makes him outstanding in his own right….an exception to dem rules.
What’s not to admire?
I’m gone.
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
10:32 pm
These games of seeing who can get who banned are just silly. These same people always wind up getting each other banned and they keep coming back. It pre-dates Kyle’s blog, they used to play the same game at Bookman’s. And it’s always “Daddy he started it”, which in my household growing up, insured that everybody got their ass busted. What passes for adult behavior these days.
td
December 17th, 2012
10:38 pm
Looks like more Americans are waking up and realizing the government can not protect you from evil.
CBI Deals With Massive Influx Of Potential Gun Buyers
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/12/17/cbi-deals-with-massive-influx-of-potential-gun-buyers/
Splavistic
December 17th, 2012
10:42 pm
Well, there you go again, Kyle.
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
10:48 pm
If everyone ignores “How many….,” he will still be here all night talking to himself in almost ALL CAPS. Too funny!
Mr. Snarky
December 17th, 2012
10:56 pm
The Tim Scott appointment is interesting. He’s been in Congress for two years yet deemed ready for the Senate by Governor Haley. Hmmmm…I bet he’s opposed to Affirmative Action just like ol’ Clarence Thomas.
I’ll be interested to see who runs against him when he comes up for election and if he wins.
mad as hell
December 17th, 2012
11:29 pm
Fact: Republicans love to profit off of human suffering
“”"”"”"”"”". I do suspect, however, that former VP Dan Quayle and his hedge fund, Cerberus, (that bought Chrysler, btw) heard the cash registers clinking when the Assault Weapson Ban expired in 2004.Quayle undoubtedly knew George Bush after serving as Herbert Walker Bush’s VP.
Shortly thereafter, Cerberus Hedge Fund went on a buying spree and bought up lots of USA gun makers under its 2006 formed subsidiary, The Freedom Group (a world-wide gun dealer according to their website).
The NYTimes does a great job providing the details here:
How Freedom Group Became the Big Shot
After Bushmaster, the Freedom Group moved in on
Remington, which traces its history to the days of flintlocks and today is supplying M24 sniper rifles to the government of Afghanistan and making handguns for the first time in decades.
Remington Military
Remington LE
Remington PMPD
Marlin Firearms,
H&R
Tapco
Parker
Dakota Arms, a maker of high-end big-game rifles.
DPMS Firearms, another maker of semiautomatic, military-style rifles, as well as
S&K industries, which supplies wood and laminate for gun stocks, as well as the
Advanced Armament Corporation, which makes silencers. It acquired
Barnes Bullets, which makes copper-jacketed bullets popular with precision shooters and police departments.
Para USA
Mountain Khakis
“We believe our scale and product breadth are unmatched within the industry,” the Freedom Group said in a filing last year with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
By its own count, the Freedom Group sold 1.2 million long guns and 2.6 billion rounds of ammunition in the 12 months ended March 2010, the most recent year for which figures are publicly available.”"”"”"”"”"”"”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/15/1170454/-Another-Bush-Assault-on-America-Assault-Weapons-Ban-expired-9-13-2004#
No wonder Bush and the Republicans in 2004 allowed the assault weapons ban expire in 2004.
Wonder if Quayle profited from any of the ammo and guns used by the shooter last Friday?
H.E. Pennypacker
December 18th, 2012
12:00 am
For those dissatisfied with Kyle’s intellectually dishonest article, here is a well researched article supported by numerous peer reviewed research.
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/18/the_answer_is_not_more_guns/
td
December 18th, 2012
12:14 am
H.E. Pennypacker
December 18th, 2012
12:00 am
Salon is your source. hahahahaha. When one liberal reviews another liberals work is not legitimate.
Old Timer
December 18th, 2012
12:17 am
Mental health is the problem, not guns. Maybe birth control. abortions, control video games and The Hollywood money mongols that support Obama with their violent films will be the answer, not guns. Our electronic age, two parents working, one parent raising a child who does not know who daddy is a pox on our sociiety. Not guns, Decent citizens need themn to protect themselves from our crazy society.
mountain man
December 18th, 2012
6:31 am
“The kid who did this killing was a white male but I have a hard time seeing him as “affluent”.”
He and his mother lived in a 4-bedroom, 3100 sq ft, “estate”. His mother was given $240,000 per year in alimony from his dad (voluntarily), so how much do you think his VP dad made. I would definitely call them affluent.
mountain man
December 18th, 2012
6:38 am
What REALLY bugs me is the lack of information being given out. They are not preparing for a trial, the perp is dead. Why can they not release the info that they know? Was there a gun safe in the mother’s house? Was it opened? Did the ammo and clips belong to the mother or did the son buy them online? Did the son have a credit card supplied by the mother? Some things I know take time to anser, but others are already known.
I think they withold info to let the interest in the case “settle”. You can already see it. The case is no longer at the top of the AJC. By the time they release the pertinent info, the case will have been forgotten by most, it will be buried on a back page, if reported at all. Things like maybe: the shooter was found to be a gamer whose mother allowed to spend 20 hours a day in shooting type mature subject, blow their head off games. Or maybe: psychologists had repeatedly recommended that the son be institutionalized, but the mother refused.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Lil' Barry Bailout -OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
6:42 am
mountain man, none of that will move the ball forward for the party that sees political opportunity in this, so don’t expect any more interest in it than there is for Fast & Furious.
Democrats: Party over country, every time.
joe
December 18th, 2012
6:43 am
Nice to see some common sense on here instead of bookmans nonsense.
joe
December 18th, 2012
6:44 am
Where were all these Senators when obama was selling guns to drug cartels in mexico that murdered thousands including a federal agent? i dont recall any outrage from them at all.
Lil' Barry Bailout -OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
6:50 am
Why did Obozo fail to renew the “assault weapons” ban in 2009 and 2010 when Democrats ran the Congress? How many lives have been lost as a result?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
7:03 am
Were the “assault weapons” used in Newtown purchased on Obozo’s watch?
Glenn Beck
December 18th, 2012
7:20 am
The “wailers and flailers” are playing a Tuesday morning gig I see.
Don’t fall of the step stool before your set is over…
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 18th, 2012
7:22 am
You need to know nothing more than this –
Mere hours after police headed to Newtown, ghoulish ambulance-chasers at MSNBC were wondering if Democrats would accrue “political capital” from the shooting.
Says it all.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 18th, 2012
7:27 am
ooops, there is one more thing you need to know and that’s it, I promise -
Assault weapons are already illegal in Connecticut, as are many semiautomatics.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
7:27 am
Note that the progs sole focus is on the gun, not the shooter and how he got to the point of wanting to kill. The progs only interest is in political advantage, not preventing the next nut from going on a rampage.
Progs: Party over country, every time.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 18th, 2012
7:29 am
Konnektikut law-
Sec. 53-202c. Possession of assault weapon prohibited. Class D felony.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
7:29 am
BTW, the reason Obozo didn’t renew the “assault weapons” ban was politics, too.
tiredofIT
December 18th, 2012
7:38 am
American exceptionalism : violence
JamVet
December 18th, 2012
7:40 am
This guy should be blogging here alongside of the usual suspect Republicans.
A North Alabama football player has been told he’s no longer on the team after making racist remarks about President Obama on Twitter on Sunday night.
On Sunday night, President Obama gave a speech from Newtown, Conn., addressing the terrible tragedy that took place at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Friday. It was a speech that pre-empted NBC’s showing of Sunday Night Football, which upset quite a few people, apparently.
And one of those people was North Alabama football player Bradley Patterson. When the president began his speech, instead of just changing the channel to continue watching the game, Patterson took to his Twitter account.
“Take that n—– off the tv, we wanna watch football!” Patterson tweeted.
As you’d expect when an idiotic statement like that goes national, Patterson quickly deleted his Twitter account but only after going the “I was hacked” route. Well, Patterson’s school isn’t gullible enough to believe that. He has been asked not to return to the football team.
At a minimum he is a good foot soldier in their All White Conservative Army…
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 18th, 2012
7:43 am
The only black US Senator, he’s a Republican.
Not a member of the all white lib mob…
JDW
December 18th, 2012
7:45 am
@Tiberius…”I just know the real Romney is head and shoulders above President Incompetent, and galactically better than you are or ever will be.”
You ponderously pompous windbag…you know nothing of either Romney nor the blogger you are bullying. You THINK, you have an OPINION, misguided as it is and you are SPOUTING as usual.
O’ and by the way…332…deal with it.
CC
December 18th, 2012
7:47 am
It is interesting to note that Chucky Schumer (of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fame) has stated that this incident was the “tipping point” and called for action on gun control. I wonder if this means he is going to surrender HIS concealed carry permit and insist that his armed guards surrender their weapons? Somehow, I doubt either action will be forthcoming. Hillary has already been burned when she and her cohorts were caught illegally funding anti-Second Amendment congressional candidates and the Million Mom March.
JDW
December 18th, 2012
7:52 am
Fact…
Where there are more guns there is more homicide
Fact…
Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.
Fact…
Across states, more guns = more homicide
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html
JDW
December 18th, 2012
8:01 am
Fact…
“Guns are used to threaten and intimidate far more often than they are used in self defense. Most self reported self defense gun uses may well be illegal and against the interests of society.”
http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/6/4/263.full
carlosgvv
December 18th, 2012
8:02 am
Only the good die young.
CC
December 18th, 2012
8:04 am
“Fact…Where there are more guns there is more homicide”
This means nothing unless population is considered . . .
“Fact…Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.”
People with more disposable income can afford more guns? Who could have guessed?
“Fact…Across states, more guns = more homicide”
Again . . . this means nothing without population comparison.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html
. . . and you quote a source that perpetrated Obama on REAL Americans?
stands for decibels
December 18th, 2012
8:04 am
My takeaway from Kyle’s So Very Serious and Thoughtful It Took Days to Compose piece:
Mostly, what we have to do is take down the signs that say we don’t like guns, and then we won’t have the mass shootings.
Sounds smart to me. Hey Congrefs–get the legislation passed, guys, and then we can exhale.
stands for decibels
December 18th, 2012
8:11 am
economist John Lott, who co-authored a study of mass shooting in 1999
ok, only because ctrl-F’ing this thread did not produce any occurrences of the words “mary rosh,” herewith the reason some of us giggle when this “Lott” fella’s name is mentioned:
http://reason.com/archives/2003/05/01/the-mystery-of-mary-rosh
JamVet
December 18th, 2012
8:13 am
Asop, stay segregated, my friend.
Evolve or die.
(Either way is good with me.)
Call It Like It Is
December 18th, 2012
8:16 am
JDW
Where there are more guns there is more homicide
Just because you state Fact before your information doesnt make it correct. Here is a fact. In Switzerland every single citizen is issued a fully automatic rifle with ammo for the defense of their country. Each male is expected to be called upon if needed. When they retire they get to keep their weapon. Fact, Switzerland has one of the lowest gun crime rates of any civilized country in the world.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
8:18 am
To all the liberals who are poutraged over my accusation that the blood of these victims is on your hands – deal with it.
It wasn’t conservatives who created weapons-free zones.
It isn’t conservatives who waste so much education money on useless administration positions and then claim they cannot afford security on campus.
It isn’t conservatives who created this distrust of government.
It isn’t conservatives who created a government unable to effectively protect the children they mandate go to government institutions.
It isn’t conservatives who made it difficult, if not impossible, for individuals to effectively defend themselves against a single armed intruder.
You liberals wanted your control over others, and you got it. Congratulations. That control got over 20 kids and teachers killed last week.
Their blood is on YOUR hands.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 18th, 2012
8:21 am
Three days in a row for jamwet wishing death upon his political opponents and the libs still can’t understand the need for high capacity ammunition clips? Look in the mirror, morons. geez.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
8:22 am
Nice to see AmVet wishing conservatives would die again this morning.
Not sure why Kyle puts up with that.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
8:25 am
Anytime someone use a quote like this : “Most self reported self defense gun uses may well be illegal and against the interests of society.” and calls it fact, you know that person is mentally unstable.
Since “the interests of society” is a subjective criteria, it cannot be considered a “fact”.
Lying Old Cranky Troll
December 18th, 2012
8:25 am
Guilty conscious Cryberious?
clem
December 18th, 2012
8:29 am
apparently some folks get it:
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/cerberus-to-sell-gunmaker-freedom-group/
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 18th, 2012
8:30 am
Anybody else catch the dumb libs reporting on the ammunition used, usually in their stupid faux concerned and sinister voices, IT WAS DESIGNED, DESIGNED!!, TO IMPART MAXIMUM ENERGY TO THE FLESH AND STAY INSIDE OF THE VICTIM!!!! GASP!!!! SHREIK!!!! SCREECHING SOUNDS!!!!
It’s called a hollow point, bozos, and you can get some at WalMart.
They’ve been around for a century or more.
JamVet
December 18th, 2012
8:30 am
tibs, I’m kind of worried about you.
You are becoming more irrational and enraged by the week. I think this recent election has sent you off of the deep end
I just pray you are not a danger to yourself and those around you. And that you don’t have any automatic weapons in the house.
Get help… (Seriously)
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 18th, 2012
8:35 am
Let’s take a vote, who would you rather have in your neighborhood armed with a military knock off semi automatic rifle, 30 round clip, ball ammo, flash suppressor, pistol grip and an evil bayonet lug? Tibs or jammyswet?
Lying Old Cranky Troll
December 18th, 2012
8:38 am
I was unaware that hollow points were available for ART-15’s…
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
8:39 am
Fact: Gun control hasn’t prevented random mass shootings from increasing.
———————–
Counting only the incidents with at least two casualties, there were 179 such crimes between 1966 and 2010. In the 1980s, there were 18. In the 1990s, there were 54. In the 2000s, there were 87.
If you count only such crimes in which five or more victims were killed, there were six in the 1980s and 19 in the 2000s.
Why the increase? It cannot be because gun-control laws have become more lax. Before the 1968 Gun Control Act, there were almost no federal gun-control laws.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323723104578185271857424036.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 18th, 2012
8:40 am
Tibs or jammyswet?
Tibs. He would probably end up shooting himself.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
8:41 am
AmVet calling someone irrational after thrice wishing for conservatives to die on this blog would be laugh riot if it weren’t so disturbing.
Talk about seeking help . . .
Here’s the thing, AmVet: you and other libs have no other course but to post the way you do regarding my accusation, because you have no logical argument nor any ability to refute what I posted.
Just your guilt-ridden poutrage because you know in your hearts that YOU and YOUR policies enabled this, and other tragedies, to happen. We can blame the shooters all day long (and should), but to hold up you hands and say “don’t blame me” when the other part of the equation is the creation of innocent sheep waiting for slaughter is simply another dereliction of duty for you and your liberal friends.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 18th, 2012
8:43 am
You could get hollow point bb’s if you looked hard enough.
Hornady Match Ammunition 223 Remington 75 Grain Hollow Point Boat Tail Box of 20
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/392200/hornady-match-ammunition-223-remington-75-grain-hollow-point-boat-tail-box-of-20
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
8:43 am
Tiberius: You liberals wanted your control over others, and you got it. Congratulations. That control got over 20 kids and teachers killed last week. Their blood is on YOUR hands.
—————-
Spot on. To all the other negative societal trends that have paralleled the un-American growth of government, add more mass killings and more-deadly schools.
Buzzy
December 18th, 2012
8:45 am
The NRA might have started off with a reasonable mission, but it has turned into a joke, run by and supported by a group of buffoons.
As one newscaster said, there is only one side to this issue and that is with the innocent victims.
For those on the Far Right who continue to get more extreme and further out on a limb regarding gun rights, please know that the sane people of America will enjoy so much sawing off your limb and watching your ideas fall to the ground. Just keep edging out on that limb. I can’t wait.
stands for decibels
December 18th, 2012
8:46 am
He would probably end up shooting himself.
Hey, tree of liberty, blood of wankers, like ol’ T-Jeff said…
JamVet
December 18th, 2012
8:46 am
And when you finally do get some anger treatment tibs, take your nephew asop with you.
I don’t want to read about him the papers either…(He appears one meltdown away from going James Adkisson on us.)
CC
December 18th, 2012
8:46 am
Aesop @ 8:35:
Tiberius, without question or reservation. JamVet CAUSES homicidal thoughts!
stands for decibels
December 18th, 2012
8:48 am
And to quote another great American, in light of all these very knowledgeable guys who know their bang-shootie thingies and what the ammo does:
“Did I happen to mention that I’m impressed?”
later!
carlosgvv
December 18th, 2012
8:48 am
CC
Fact – America has, far and away, the highest gun murder rate of any industralized Western nation.
Fact – America is the only industralized Western nation without universal healthcare.
Coindence?
NO
Republican politicians protecting the profits of their corporate masters at all costs, human lives included?
YES
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 18th, 2012
8:50 am
Considering that Connecticut already had an “assault” weapons ban and the school was a “gun free” zone, you reckon the party of abortion just may get a kick out of seeing a bunch of dead kids?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
8:50 am
Buzzy: As one newscaster said, there is only one side to this issue and that is with the innocent victims.
———————–
Who’s taking a position against the innocent victims?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
8:52 am
People on Kyle’s blog who need anger treatment:
AmVet – 3 posts in 4 days advocating that people he disagrees with should die, one recommending the actual method of killing.
Tiberius – 0 posts advocating violence of any kind – ever.
Now, which one needs anger management treatment, AmVet?
Dumb and Dumber
December 18th, 2012
8:52 am
The Right-Wing answer to gun violence is always more guns.It never works and it never will. Kyle’s hypocrisy here is that he knows as a “fact” what the shooters were thinking.
And there is no point even talking about the Second Amendment, Kyle and the GOP choose to ignore the basic grammar of the sentence:
“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”
However Kyle and the NRA choose to reads it as:
“the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”
See how easy that was?
We will have more school shootings and more funerals and nothing will be done about it.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
8:53 am
If anyone’s taken a position against the innocent victims, it’s the progs with their unproductive focus on their political aims of restricting Second Amendment rights. They should be focused on the cause of this and similar tragedies–those who perpetrate them and how they got that way.
td
December 18th, 2012
8:53 am
Lil’ Barry Bailout -OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
6:50 am
Why did Obozo fail to renew the “assault weapons” ban in 2009 and 2010 when Democrats ran the Congress? How many lives have been lost as a result?
That one is easy. Every move Obama made, every speech Obama made was all done for one reason. Re-election. Gun control just like immigration reform and the Bush tax cuts were all issues that could have cost him votes and could not be brought up.
CC
December 18th, 2012
8:53 am
carlosgvv:
At this point in your young life, you are hopeless. Now, run along and eat your breakfast, the school bus will be along very soon.
Don't Tread
December 18th, 2012
8:55 am
You liberals saying that the mother “deserved what she got” over on Bookman’s blog disgust me.
Forget about the fiscal cliff….this country went over the moral cliff years ago, in the name of “progressivism”.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
8:55 am
We will have more school shootings and more funerals and nothing will be done about it.
——————–
Mostly because progs will waste time and effort focusing on gun control.
Del
December 18th, 2012
8:55 am
The left can’t explain how stricter gun control or banning certain types of firearms and accessories will prevent the criminally insane from killing innocent people. The left wing politicians are once again grandstanding to their base who want only to punish the NRA and the millions of law abiding gun owners that many belong to the NRA. They only want to pass feel good legislation that won’t accomplish anything and avoid objectively examining our failing mental health systems, how violent movies, television and video games might influence violent behavior in the mentally ill or how to implement best practice building security particularly in our schools. This is all about politics to these mindless idiots not about protecting our citizens.
independent thinker
December 18th, 2012
8:56 am
Mountain Man at 6:31 am- Excellent post-
So what does Momma do with $240,000 a year? Buy guns and ammo; take shooting lessons with her crazy son; become a Prepper and drink at the local watering hole. And where is her dysfunctional son for the two years after high school? Getting therapy? Getting an education? or hiding at home with Momma playing video games and learning how to shoot assault weapons? and Dad- out of his son’s life -shacking up with a new girlfriend . Won’t even claim his son’s body. Ah what bliss $240,000 a year can buy you.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
8:58 am
So what does Momma do with $240,000 a year?
——————–
Hey, it’s Connecticut. What did you expect?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
9:00 am
Aesop, your 8:50 was uncalled for.
I don’t believe that anyone, right or left, is “getting a kick” out of this.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
9:02 am
“Fact – America has, far and away, the highest gun murder rate of any industralized Western nation.
Fact – America is the only industralized Western nation without universal healthcare.
Coindence?”
No, merely contrived.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
9:05 am
I’m not so sure, Tiberius. The folks at the Brady Center are probably getting a HUGE kick out of this. Oh, sure, they’re saying all the right things about the tragedy and how very sad it all is, but business has never been better for the ghouls looking to score political points, raise money for gun-control-freaks, and strip Americans of their Second Amendment rights.
JamVet
December 18th, 2012
9:06 am
JamVet CAUSES homicidal thoughts!
Christian fraud, to the extent that you give my words that much power over you, I chuckle…
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 18th, 2012
9:08 am
The 1st Amendment -
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Now, if I were to interpret this the way a lib would interpret the 2nd Amendment, then that would mean the “press” is a religion. (Yes, I know it is to some but that’s not my point.)
carlosgvv
December 18th, 2012
9:08 am
CC – 8:53
Tiberius – 9:02
Rather than trying to refute my post, which you can’t, your best response is trite, juvenille and mindless.
This is precisley what I expected from two adolescent homeschoolers like you.
Now, stop posting here and do your school work. How do you ever expect to be good MacDonald busboys someday if you keep wasting time posting here?
CC
December 18th, 2012
9:10 am
Liberals have cheapened the value of human life by advocating the murder of the unborn. Would anyone dispute the fact that most homicides are committed by products of single parent households? Our society has plenty of single parent households because of the welfare given to single mothers and their dependent children. Who commits the drive-by murders? Who attends the parties that result in shooting deaths? Who patronizes the nightclubs where shootings and homicides occur? The ultra-liberal Hollywood idiots grind out violent film after violent film and will be in the forefront advocating gun control.
There is a culture of violence that exists within this country, but conservatives didn’t create it.
As has been said here earlier, LIBERALS, THE BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS.
mad as hell
December 18th, 2012
9:13 am
FACTS- Idylic Newtown Ct. had a gun problem
“”"”"”"”"”"eople in the rural, hilly areas around Newtown, Conn., are used to gunfire. In one woodsy stretch, southeast of downtown, the Pequot Fish and Game Club and the Fairfield County Fish and Game Protective Association, where members can fish in ponds and hunt pheasant, lie within a mile of each other, and people who live nearby generally call them good neighbors.
8:33 PM N.R.A. Facebook Page Vanishes
8:12 PM Malloy Asks for State Ban on High-Capacity Magazines
MORE UPDATES »
Multimedia
Photographs
Newtown Grieves
Coping in Newtown
Newtown Shootings | The Victims
GRAPHIC: The Shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School
VIDEO: No Longer Anytown
Related
‘These Tragedies Must End,’ Obama Says (December 17, 2012)
Gunman Took Big Supply of Ammunition to School After Killing Mother at Home (December 17, 2012)
Rifle Used in Killings, America’s Most Popular, Highlights Regulation Debate (December 17, 2012)
Debate on Gun Control Is Revived, Amid a Trend Toward Fewer Restrictions (December 16, 2012)
Justice Dept. Shelved Ideas to Improve Gun Background Checks (December 16, 2012)
Connect with NYTMetro
Follow us on Twitter and like us on Facebook for news and conversation.
But in the last couple of years, residents began noticing loud, repeated gunfire, and even explosions, coming from new places. Near a trailer park. By a boat launch. Next to well-appointed houses. At 2:20 p.m. on one Wednesday last spring, multiple shots were reported in a wooded area on Cold Spring Road near South Main Street, right across the road from an elementary school.
Yet recent efforts by the police chief and other town leaders to gain some control over the shooting and the weaponry turned into a tumultuous civic fight, with traditional hunters and discreet gun owners opposed by assault weapon enthusiasts, and a modest tolerance for bearing arms competing with the staunch views of a gun industry trade association, the National Shooting Sports Foundation, which has made Newtown its home”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”
.http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/nyregion/in-newtown-conn-a-stiff-resistance-to-gun-restrictions.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 18th, 2012
9:14 am
OK, Tibs, then you tell me what the libs motive is to set up these gun free zones that are the preferred place for the work of mass murderers? You can’t play basketball without a hoop and a ball, same as you can’t massacre a bunch of people unless they are unarmed.
How many of these mass murder scenes had a gun that belonged to a victim at them?
You don’t know the depravity of liberals very well, do you?
Darwin
December 18th, 2012
9:20 am
“Facts, not emotions, must guide post-Newtown debate” You should have applied that similar logic to the presidential election.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
9:25 am
“Rather than trying to refute my post, which you can’t”
I DID refute it, carlos.
Neither of your two points are related in any way, thus your position was, and remains, contrived.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
9:29 am
Aesop, I see the depravity of both liberals AND conservatives every day.
And while liberals certainly like to “spike the football” more than conservatives seem to do, I still do not believe that anyone is finding any joy in this tragedy (except for the mentally deranged on BOTH sides).
tiredofIT
December 18th, 2012
9:29 am
Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
8:43 am
Tiberius: You liberals wanted your control over others, and you got it. Congratulations. That control got over 20 kids and teachers killed last week. Their blood is on YOUR hands.
—————-
Spot on. To all the other negative societal trends that have paralleled the un-American growth of government, add more mass killings and more-deadly schools.
+++
Last time I check it was the GOP (Bush) that increased the un-American growth of the government.
So it’s on your hands and GOD’s.
JDW
December 18th, 2012
9:31 am
Each of the facts I have posted is supported by exhaustive research from organizations such as John’s Hopkins and Harvard. Links have been provided for your convenience and in some cases education. I suggest that those impinging the facts refer to the resource studies cited and should you wish to dispute provide similar research rather than your unfounded opinions.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
9:34 am
tiredofIT, the “Bush did it” excuse is growing so old.
Neither party has a good record on reducing the size and scope of government.
It is liberals like you, however, that have disarmed our populace and enabled the slaughter of our innocents.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
9:42 am
Each of the “facts” JDW has posted have been cherry-picked to make a certain point, ignoring other facts which do not.
Entirely expected, given JDW’s history of cherry-picking only that which supports his limited world-view.
Electoral College
December 18th, 2012
9:47 am
The counting of EC votes and official results from yesterday has some experiencing full blown ODS and meltdowns..
Keep up the good work
Real Athens
December 18th, 2012
9:47 am
“Facts, not emotions, must guide post-Newtown debate”.
Woefully apparent Kyle, that your followers pay lip service to you.
Electoral College
December 18th, 2012
9:52 am
As far as spiking the ball, many on this blog decided to do it early. That only caused more grief, frustration and whining when the election was actually held. Let’s not “cherry pick” the facts.
Real Athens
December 18th, 2012
9:54 am
“The ultra-liberal Hollywood idiots grind out violent film after violent film and will be in the forefront advocating gun control.
There is a culture of violence that exists within this country, but conservatives didn’t create it.”
Starring big time,”liberals” like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chuck Norris, Clint Eastwood, Sylvester Stallone, Charlton Heston, James Wood, James Caan etc. etc.
JamVet
December 18th, 2012
9:58 am
There is a culture of violence that exists within this country, but conservatives didn’t create it.”
They just shell out billions of dollars to make it hugely successful.
Just one of the innumerable ways their hypocrisy stinks to high heaven.
God be praised…
JDW
December 18th, 2012
9:59 am
@Tiberius…”Each of the “facts” JDW has posted have been cherry-picked to make a certain point, ignoring other facts which do not.”
I understand you have great difficulty with facts that do not square with the view of the world in Tiberiusville…yet I notice an absence of any conflicting information from you. Just ponderous pontification and yet another attempt to bully.
curious
December 18th, 2012
10:03 am
Has the NRA commented?
breckenridge
December 18th, 2012
10:04 am
We should all support Mike Huckabee for president! He’ll get God back in the classroom and this senseless violence will end!
Or not……….
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 18th, 2012
10:09 am
Jesus carried a Glock.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
10:10 am
Poor “I’m being bullied!” JDW. Remind me again who puts your panties on for you each morning?
And once again, you’re reading comprehension skills are suffering a meltdown, JDW. I have not challenged your facts at all, but have merely pointed out their one-sided nature (as is your modus operandi), and your lack of ability to see any issue except through a big-government liberal lens.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
10:11 am
curious: Has the NRA commented?
——–
On what?
JDW
December 18th, 2012
10:17 am
Tiberius…”Poor “I’m being bullied!” JDW. Remind me again who puts your panties on for you each morning?”
I don’t recall saying “I was being bullied” merely that you ATTEMPTED to bully…yet again…and again…and again.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
10:20 am
The person who cries out “bully” is usually the one who feels “bullied”, JDW.
Again, who puts your panties on for you each morning?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
10:21 am
More Blue State failure:
————-
@iowahawkblog: Chicago, pop. 2.6 million. Houston, 2.1 million. Similar demographics. 2012 homicides: Chicago 487, Houston 215.
carlosgvv
December 18th, 2012
10:21 am
Tiberius – 9:25
I guess you don’t know what “coincidence” and “no” mean.
curious
December 18th, 2012
10:23 am
Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
10:11 am
curious: Has the NRA commented?——–
“On what?”
Everyone else has, including you.
As the widely recognized spokesman for the gun industry and gun rights, it would seem obvious they could at least express remorse that twenty 5-7 year old children had been murdered.
Does anything matter at all to the NRA other than money (and that’s what it’s all about)?
Surely they’re smart enough to say something.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
10:27 am
I’m not sure why the NRA would comment. They’re a shooting-sports and gun rights organization, not a mental health or crime prevention organization.
Did NARAL comment?
MarkV
December 18th, 2012
10:30 am
The discussion of the traffic event in Connecticut is a sad commentary on the inability of many on this blog to present rational thoughts on a controversial subject. When the comments degenerate to such incredible insulting stupidity as iggy’s 3:48 pm post, reason has no chance in the debate.
Even Dusty, from whom one might have expected better, apparently felt the need to tote the party line (“I also see all the gun opponents are lined up to fight with tooth and nail.”), even though her heart did not seem to be in it. When even such NRA stalwart as Sen. Manchin talks about restrictions on assault weapon and high-round clips, isn’t it time to give that a serious thought?
There is always the “Second amendment crowd” – not meaning the (probably) majority of Americans who believe in the Constitutional right to have a gun at home for protection – but those whose answer to any restriction on gun ownership is to quote the 2nd. Some of them are always prepared to submit their “scholarly” views of the amendment, never mind that four of the Supreme Court justices, people much more knowledgeable than they, have dissented from the majority interpretation. Still, the law of the land is what the Supreme Court has decided, including the “reasonable restrictions” that can be placed on individual gun ownership – the part that the ”crowd” likes to ignore.
There is, of course, Kyle with his demand that “Facts, not emotions, must guide post-Newtown debate” but inability to separate real facts from speculation. That the shooter in Aurora, Colo. Chose the Cinemark Theater is a fact; that the reason for the choice was that he chose it because it banned concealed handguns carried by law-abiding individuals is a speculation.
No reasonable person argues that the mass killings, as well as other gun killings, can be prevented by gun ownership restrictions only, and that there are no other factors to consider. But no reasonable person also believes that more guns would mean less killing, or that better restrictions would not be a step in the right direction.
curious
December 18th, 2012
10:32 am
Any possible connection between gun rights and mental health?
Would the NRA support a mental health assessment of people wanting to buy a high capacity, civilian version of a military assault rifle?
I would suggest anyone buying something other than a shotgun or bolt action rifle, undergo the same process as required to buy a class 3 weapon.
JDW
December 18th, 2012
10:37 am
@Tiberius…”The person who cries out “bully” is usually the one who feels “bullied”, JDW. Again, who puts your panties on for you each morning?”
When confronted the bully seeks to belittle and marginalize. Many times when confronted the bully will attack anew…hummm…see a pattern?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
10:40 am
Perhaps we should test folks before allowing them to exercise their first amendment rights also?
Why didn’t these kinds of events occur prior to the enactment of gun control beginning in the 70s?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
10:46 am
“But no reasonable person also believes that more guns would mean less killing”
Only in your mind, MarkV.
Edward
December 18th, 2012
10:46 am
I find it very odd that Kyle (and others) would stoop to a post-hoc-ergo-propter-hoc argument to support their twisted and insulting opinions. By that logic we should assume that all white males are suspect since the overwhelming majority of mass shootings has been perpetrated by them. And as to the “god was removed from school” crowd, where was your god when the shootings occurred in the churches and church-ran schools? Is your god so impotent that he can’t enter any school he chooses? Is a god who would sacrifice innocent people one to be worshiped? You people are truly disgusting.
breckenridge
December 18th, 2012
10:47 am
“We’ve kicked God out of our public school system. And I think God would say to us, ‘Hey, I’ll be glad to protect your children, but you’ve got to invite me back into your world first. I’m not going to go where I’m not wanted. I am a gentlemen.” Bryan Fischer, American Family Association.
In 1927 a mad bomber killed 38 children and 6 adults when he set off 3 bombs at Bath elementary school in Bath Township, Michigan. That was 34 years before God was “kicked out” of our public schools.
But the problem here is the influence that groups such as the American Family Association, Family Research Council and the the fetid roach James Dobson’s Focus on Family have in the Republican party. They’re traitors, dirty filthy traitors, as is any American who lobbies to legislate their religious beliefs.
And no, I’m not a member of the left, just an American who believes in the Constitution.
loco
December 18th, 2012
10:48 am
JDW
Tiberius is able to put his own panties on. No more pull ups for him. Not even at night.
Guess he wants to know about others since he made such a momentous change himself. He is feeling more like a little tike than a toddler these days..
curious
December 18th, 2012
10:49 am
Don’t believe a discussion of the First Amendment is relevant.
I don’t recall a large market for these type weapons before 1970. In fact most weapons were WW2 surplus and fully automatic versions were required to be registered by the GCA of 1968. Even then, they were primarily souvenirs.
Assault type weapons became popular after Vietnam primarily due to their compactness, high rate of fire, and appearance.
Our problem is that anyone without a record and legally purchase that weapon even if they’re crazy.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
10:50 am
An appropriate moniker for “loco”.
CC
December 18th, 2012
10:55 am
“NRA stalwart as Sen. Manchin talks about restrictions on assault weapon”
Why don’t you use this opportunity to explain to us what an “assault weapon” is?
MarkV
December 18th, 2012
10:58 am
CC @ 10:55 am
You do not know? Then learn.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
11:09 am
How ironic that it is MarkV suggesting someone learn about something.
Partisay
December 18th, 2012
11:26 am
Funny how this article failed to mention the main part of this mass shooting and almost all mass shootings in the last few years, as well as the crux of the argument for tighter gun controls: assault weapons. How can you write an article on this subject without mentioning them? I think if you ask most liberals, very few would want to ban all guns – just assault weapons, or at least limit their firing capabilities.
Terrence
December 18th, 2012
11:27 am
Short of educating the kids within an enclosed fortress, there is no way we can protect them 100%. Even with twelve foot concrete walls topped with barbed wire, incendiary devices or homemade bombs could be hurled over the walls during recess.
Reality sucks.
Preventing an armed intruder could be facilitated with a secured corridor, two entrances–one exterior with video camera, another video camera within the secured corridor. The visitor is buzzed into the corridor where armed security waits. If the intruder takes out the security guard or forces the security guard to allow access, it’s caught on tape. He’s denied access through the second security door. He’s trapped within the secured corridor. He can’t get out and he can’t get in. He’s a sitting duck waiting for law enforcement to arrive.
political arsonist
December 18th, 2012
11:32 am
a republican appealing for use of facts rather than emotions!!! audacious!!! this is the party that survives only by keeping ignorant rednecks emotionally frothed up over gun control, god, gays, illegal immigrants, terrorism, and womens reproductive parts. the gop only survives in deep south rural uneducated areas. the more intelligent the electorate (ie. fact based rather than religion based myths), the less votes for republicans
to appeal to this moran constituency to consider facts is totally laughable – sound like something noot would say
yuzeyurbrane
December 18th, 2012
11:39 am
Kyle, it is obvious which side you are on. Your article is one of advocacy against stricter gun controls. This can be deduced simply by the way you cherry-picked your facts. To provide you with the other side of the issue for the fact based discussion you claim to want, I suggest you read today’s NY Times editorial on the issue as well as several over media articles relating the pertinent experiences in Australia and the United Kingdom, and include it in your future “objective” fact-based articles.
Politico
December 18th, 2012
11:55 am
CC
Check out the DoDs definition and the NRA’s, not one in the same. And other organizations even differing definitions and opinions as to what constitutes an “assault weapon”
Sure you knew that. Yeah right…….
hahahahaahaha
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
12:01 pm
political arsonist: [The GOP] is the party that survives only by keeping ignorant rednecks emotionally frothed up over gun control, god, gays, illegal immigrants, terrorism, and womens reproductive parts
————————
And yet this latest shooting occurs in the bluest of blue states…and the one before that? Oregon. And the one before that? Colorado. And the one before that? Virginia.
These blue state folks just don’t know how to behave.
CC
December 18th, 2012
12:03 pm
“You do not know? Then learn.”
Just as I suspected . . .
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 18th, 2012
12:03 pm
Semi-autos and high capacity magazines were available before the gun-control effort began in the 70s. Why no mass shootings before gun control?
You’ll need to explain that before attacking the constitutional rights of the law-abiding.
iggy
December 18th, 2012
12:13 pm
Once again the liberals attack the symtom of “the issue” and ignore the cause.
MarkV
December 18th, 2012
12:13 pm
How ordinary for Tiberiues to write stupid posts.
How oridnary for cc to be unable to look up the now expired Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) for assualt weapons definition.
CC
December 18th, 2012
12:27 pm
MarkV:
You can’t describe or define an assault weapon. I wouldn’t accept what Feinstein picked out of a catalog as exactly definitive either.
Blowhard.
carlosgvv
December 18th, 2012
12:35 pm
CC
Looks like your mommie doesn’t care if you skip homeschooling and spend the day posting here.
Oh well. The world will always need ditch diggers.
jbgotcha
December 18th, 2012
12:37 pm
Kyle is a partisan hack, plain and simple. Just thought I’d point that out to those who don’t see it.
CC
December 18th, 2012
12:47 pm
“Oh well. The world will always need ditch diggers.”
Even were I young, I’d not follow in your footsteps, but I’ll bet you dig nice ditches!
You are gainfully employed, right? Don’t tell me you’re still living in your Mom’s basement and looking at your “Hope” and “Change” posters!
amx
December 18th, 2012
1:17 pm
I guess Lil b never heard of Whitman in the Texas bell tower or the person who shot up the Luby’s cafeteria in Texas. Too much gun control in Texas?
amx
December 18th, 2012
1:19 pm
If a lot of people having guns lowers the crime rates, then why isn’t the crime rate in the US the lowest in the world?
iggy
December 18th, 2012
1:23 pm
amx. Partly because many dead home invaders ie dullards, didnt think before they kicked in the door.
CC
December 18th, 2012
1:37 pm
amx:
“If a lot of people having guns lowers the crime rates, then why isn’t the crime rate in the US the lowest in the world?”
You’re blaming an inanimate object (or objects) for crime rates? A GUN does NOTHING until a human causes it to fire. Credit the culture of violence perpetrated by TV, movies, electronic games, rap music (IF you choose to call it music) and the cheapening of all human life by the proponents of killing the unborn. Like so many, you choose to assign the blame to the blameless in order to ease your conscience.
tiredofIT
December 18th, 2012
1:41 pm
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 18th, 2012
9:34 am
tiredofIT, the “Bush did it” excuse is growing so old.
Neither party has a good record on reducing the size and scope of government.
It is liberals like you, however, that have disarmed our populace and enabled the slaughter of our innocents.
++
You just can’t get right. I have a carry permit. You guys are so high and mighty and that’s your problem.
Rick C
December 18th, 2012
2:46 pm
CC, none of those things are any more directly responsible than guns are.
iggy
December 18th, 2012
3:27 pm
Shoot first, ask questions later.
MarkV
December 18th, 2012
4:03 pm
CC @ 12:27 pm
“You can’t describe or define an assault weapon.”
Funny, they could not, and they did. And it was not Feinstein, but the professionals.
Edward
December 18th, 2012
8:10 pm
People like CC defend guns by saying the guns aren’t responsible, people are. Then he goes on a rant blaming video games and rap music. Yeah, hypocrisy is strong in the GOP.
mad as hell
December 18th, 2012
9:34 pm
”””””””’ article in today’s NY Times talks about the difficulty the little Connecticut town of Newtown has had with controlling firearms within it’s own town borders. Apparently, there are two “legal” firing ranges, and several ad-hoc ranges that have become the subject of controversy and to no-one’s surprise the support of gun-rights group, the National Shooting Sports Foundation, which seems to be located right there in Newtown.
So what has left me speechless? This quote from the article made by one of the owners of one of the ad-hoc firing ranges:
“Guns are why we’re free in this country, and people lose sight of that when tragedies like this happen,” he said. “A gun didn’t kill all those children, a disturbed man killed all those children.”
There’s the mindset of the opponent to reasonable gun laws. That somehow we’re free (to be terrified to send our kids to school or go to the mall?) because GunZ! And the second part (my emphasis) that the guns did not kill those kids, that a crazy person did…that line of thinking just has to come to an end. Those kids were killed by a gun that could shoot quickly and efficiently, the way a soldier in combat requires, there is no other justification for those weapons. “”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/17/1171097/-I-am-just-F-in-speechless
How many second amendment wackos here agree with the sicko quoted above?