Facts, not emotions, must guide post-Newtown debate
I have deliberately waited to comment on the horrific mass shooting in Newtown, Conn., for a variety of reasons. Not least was the abundance of wrongly reported “facts” early on that made it difficult for someone hundreds of miles away from the story to feel confident about even the basics of the case; this story was not exactly the news media’s finest hour.
Still more important is the impropriety, in my view, of too soon devoting words at a time such as this to anything other than the victims and their families. They deserve better than to be gathered up as evidence for a policy debate within mere hours of their terrible deaths.
Eventually, though, those of us outside Newtown have to grapple with whether there is something we can do to prevent the evil and the insane among us from committing other such acts of wickedness.
As someone who is generally opposed to making our gun laws stricter, and who believes proponents of gun control have spent years making their case to the public without success, I don’t keep a lot of crime statistics at the ready. Here are some facts I’ve been able to gather that might surprise some of you:
- The steps we’ve already taken — including longer jail terms for dangerous offenders (and, yes, some nonviolent offenders) and smarter policing methods — have resulted in a steady drop in violent crime in the U.S. over the past few decades. In 2010, violent crime reached a 40-year low nationally. The U.S. rate of assault deaths per 100,000 people has fallen almost in half since the late 1970s.
- During the 20th century, the average number of people killed in a mass murder involving a gun was barely higher than the average number killed in a mass murder involving a knife, blunt object or one’s bare hands.
- Along with the generally lower incidence of violent crime, mass killings have also been on the decline: from 42 in the 1990s to 26 in the following decade.
- One thing has been consistent about mass shootings for more than a half-century. According to economist John Lott, who co-authored a study of mass shooting in 1999 and spoke with National Review’s John Fund after the Newtown massacre: “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”
- Schools and shopping malls are common spots. But Lott also noted this fact about the shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., earlier this year, per Fund:
[T]he Aurora shooter, who killed twelve people earlier this year, had a choice of seven movie theaters that were showing the Batman movie he was obsessed with. All were within a 20-minute drive of his home. The Cinemark Theater the killer ultimately chose wasn’t the closest, but it was the only one that posted signs saying it banned concealed handguns carried by law-abiding individuals. All of the other theaters allowed the approximately 4 percent of Colorado adults who have a concealed-handgun permit to enter with their weapons.
People who look to other explanations for mass shootings — such as the degradation of the culture, falling religiosity, or gun violence in movies and video games — also have to account for the declining crime statistics above.
It certainly goes against the grain for most of us to look at what happened in Newtown on Friday and conclude nothing can be done. And it is counter-intuitive for many people to believe more guns can lead to lower crime. But if we really are interested in eliminating as many violent deaths as humanly possible — and I know of no one arguing the contrary — we ought to let our policy debate be guided by the facts, rather than the understandable and heavy emotions we’ll all be dealing with for days to come.
(H/t for a few of these links to Ben Domenech’s excellent Transom newsletter. Normally it’s for subscribers only, but today’s edition can be seen for free here.)
– By Kyle Wingfield
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482 comments Add your comment
CC
December 17th, 2012
5:00 pm
Hillbilly D:
Matthew 24:36 is probably the better of the two.
pogo
December 17th, 2012
5:01 pm
The minute this happened the liberals jumped to the assault weapon thing and gun control. For whatever reason people (especially liberals) are programmed to first blame the inanimate/non-thinking devices used in such attacks rather than the person doing the attacking. And they also stay away from blaming the socialogical environment that created him/her and their social interactions as both children and adults even though that is the real reason. The socialogical part is the hard part so it is easier to blame the guns or whatever. 99% of the time, the real culprit is the persons mental health. The guns are not the problem, our system and our society is. Thanks to the progressive mindset, government ran schools are now set up not to “stigmatize” individuals students that are “different” or “mal-adjusted” or that show aberrant behaviour. They are taught to embrace the students differences and idiosyncracies from the norm no matter how weird. And worse yet, these peoples parents either don’t care enough or take time enough to know that their children are screwed up or don’t want to admit their child is troubled so the kids are most often diagnosed as being ADD or some other benign mental disorder which may or may not be real. Really you can’t expect our government ran schools to do anything because our government is inept at solving any social problem (much less diagnose mental illness in students) so most of the blame lies with the parents of the killers. Classically, mass murderers and serial killers have demonstrated their inclination towards madness at a very early age and the last few mass killers in this country are no different. And, from the limited and confused information about the Newton killer this seems to be exactly the same thing. Nobody picked up on his madness. He was just “different” or he had Asbergers Syndrome is all they thought even though the demonstrated to both his teachers and his parents that he had severe mental problems. Taking away guns won’t help this in the future because a kid of his intellect will figure out another and mayber worse way to rectify the “injustices” he thinks he has sufferred. No, the problem is not guns. It our “anything goes” and politically correct society that is to blame.
Mass murder can be carried out in any number of ways not involving a gun. Arson, poisoning, blowing up tanker trucks carrying lethal chemicals and any number of other unsavory things. Until the societal problem this country has is solved, there will continue to be mass killings. Its children are increasingly uncaring about anyone but themself,they are increasingly greedy and they increasingly consumed with pop culture (whatever that may be). They have no moral compass and they have no empathy for their fellow human beings. This country has lost its morality and its empathy and much of it can be blamed on the progressives. Not all, but a lot of it. And I am not talking about religion.
CC
December 17th, 2012
5:02 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday? :
Every one of them . . .
Del
December 17th, 2012
5:02 pm
On this forum and the one next door no one has made a good argument for banning so called semi-automatic firearms, ammunition or high capacity magazines by explaining how an underground of black market sales of these items could be avoided. Just passing feel good legislation that can’t be properly enforced and or creating illegal enterprises that would be less likely to keep these firearms out of the hands of criminals or the criminally insane isn’t keeping our children safe. These asinine comments that conservatives don’t mourn the loss of innocent people and only wish to selfishly keep their guns is nothing more than ignorant rhetoric containing no reasonable substance.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
5:03 pm
@Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012
4:25 pm
Just Saying, it wasn’t conservatives who have attempted to disarm the general populace, leaving the innocent unprotected.
It’s you libs.
Their blood is on YOUR hands.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
VIOLENCE visited on OUR CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF “your” FREEDOM?
VIOLENCE visited on “YOUR” CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF “your” FREEDOM?
.
Del
December 17th, 2012
5:04 pm
On my last, should have been banning so called assault weapons.
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
5:05 pm
iberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 17th, 2012/4:25 pm
Just Saying, it wasn’t conservatives who have attempted to disarm the general populace, leaving the innocent unprotected.
It’s you libs.
Their blood is on YOUR hands.
Uh, Tib?
Kyle said w/o emotion. Remember?
CC
December 17th, 2012
5:05 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday? :\
To be accurate, I can only answer for myself. The answer is that I’ve slept very well.
Thanks for your concern!
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
5:09 pm
Pogo@5:01, Well said!
Just Saying..
December 17th, 2012
5:11 pm
“CCDecember 17th, 20125:02 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday? :
Every one of them . . .
CC, Kyle said Facts.
Got any?
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
5:16 pm
Kennesaw passed a law in 1982 law REQUIRING guns. The crime rate actually decreased.
http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/07/mandated-gun-ownership-a-tale-of-two-cities/
(It also got rid of the liberals.)
@@
December 17th, 2012
5:19 pm
I have deliberately waited to comment on the horrific mass shooting in Newtown, Conn., for a variety of reasons.
And you’re to be commended for that, Kyle.
All too often, the media and politicians seek to benefit from the raw emotions of grieving families.
A Time for Everything
…a time to tear and a time to mend
a time to be silent and a time to speak…
Romney
December 17th, 2012
5:21 pm
Linda cries about liberals @ 4:13 then makes her own snarky remark @ 5:16……
She must put hypocrisy and irony on everything. From her blog posts to her casseroles she just spread it around
CC
December 17th, 2012
5:22 pm
Linda’:
“(It also got rid of the liberals.)”
That alone was worth the passge of such a requirement . . .
Michael H. Smith
December 17th, 2012
5:22 pm
A few “good” points have been made none of which have to do with banning so-called asualt weapons. Interestingly, as it was pointed out by someone, Mexico has very strict gun control laws. In fact Mexico has only one, YES ONE, gun store as it was reported. However, no one, at least no one of sanity or honesty would dare claim Mexico has no deaths caused by guns, even “fully automatic” real military assault riffles – not just Simi-automatics – caused deaths.
All of this leaves me to believe that stricter guns laws cannot overcome societies willingness to accept violence as a common place occurance with a low value put on life and furthermore have very little support/funding for treating mental illness. This believe puts me in a political section that I’m not often accustomed to abide within, let alone voice openly support of it considering all things conservative. Although, this much I’ll give Mr. Obama, this is not the time for inaction rather appropriate actions, like finally getting real about making real mental health reforms with real funding which is too long overdue a reality.
Personally I don’t care for the amount of violence on TV, in the movies and video games, so I have no regrets to advocate placing a premium tax on these things or the addition of a premium tax on so-called assault rifles like the Simi-automatic Bushmaster AR15 to fund mental health.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
December 17th, 2012
5:26 pm
Only a conservative nutjob would believe the answer to gun violence is more guns.
Its a strange world they live in.
CC
December 17th, 2012
5:26 pm
Just Saying..:
“Got any?”
Yeah.
Refer my 5:05 post.
luangtom
December 17th, 2012
5:27 pm
The sad fact is that there are people out there that are willing to kill innocent children and the accompanying adults that try to save them. Another fact is that Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people in OKC without firing a single shot. Knee-jerk legislation will most likely occur and we will have the same success with a new War on Firearms that we have had with the War on Drugs. It will costs millions or billion to implement and enforce and not do a thing to keep the deadly weapons out of the hands of lunatics. Yes, I called the perpetrators that use firearms lunatics and it is not politcally-correct to do so. My bad.
We must, however, address how to avert future outrages by looking into our political-correctness in dealing with mental-illness. At what point do we can the rights of the impaired and consider the rights of the many they may impact? We medicate and send our ill off to schools and try to integrate them into society. Yet, the sad fact is, not all can be dealt with so easily. Exactly how much time is spent in trying to placate and settle their outbursts at the expense of not teaching and instructing the other main-stream students?
We send our children to pre-school, after-school and they are in school all day. Then, we put them into programs to keep them out of our hair and then we ship them off to their grandparents for the weekend so that the parents can have some more together-time. When did parenting become a part-time job? We now rely on our schools to instill values and morals and complain when this is not accomplished. What has happened to the America us old people grew up in? These are areas that need to be investigated and answers sought. A knee-jerk reaction to legislate will not quell the violence or the flow of deranged people into society.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
5:29 pm
Gun control laws will be no more effective than drug laws. The record on being able to ban and control “things” is long and totally without success.
If you oppose guns, don’t have one.
Romney
December 17th, 2012
5:30 pm
“If you oppose guns, don’t have one.”
Great post. I could be incorrect, but didn’t you post something about abortion? Excuse me if that was not you.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
December 17th, 2012
5:31 pm
Another fact is that Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people in OKC without firing a single shot.
True. But most people dont have military training in demolitions.
Your argument doesn’t hold water.
Funny how countries with strict gun laws dont have near the problem we do.
Its no coincidence.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
5:31 pm
@CC
December 17th, 2012
5:02 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday? :
Every one of them . . .
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN THE MURDERER OF THOSE 20 CHILDREN.
CC I bet you are a CRAZY CONSERVATIVE
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
5:34 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
5:29 pm
Gun control laws will be no more effective than drug laws. The record on being able to ban and control “things” is long and totally without success.
If you oppose guns, don’t have one.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lil BB IF YOU OPPOSE ABORTIONS, DON’T HAVE ONE.
heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
5:36 pm
Shouldn’t be a problem, sockpuppet!
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
5:38 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?: YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN THE MURDERER OF THOSE 20 CHILDREN.
———————
Yeah, it’s exactly the same thing, freedom-hater.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
5:39 pm
I have deliberately waited to comment on the horrific mass shooting in Newtown, Conn., for a variety of reasons.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.”
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
December 17th, 2012
5:39 pm
America in some ways is still like the wild west.
People love guns.
But is a heavy price we pay for that love affair.
A gun has but one purpose.
Kill another human being. Any fool can pull a trigger.
Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten
December 17th, 2012
5:43 pm
The Allman Brothers said it best I think
Well hand guns are made for killin’
They ain’t no good for nothin’ else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don’t we dump ‘em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some ole fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me
JR
December 17th, 2012
5:45 pm
Reality check for people who want to ban things they have almost no knowledge of:
I am a gun owner. I am a hunter. I am a law-abiding citizen.
I hunt deer with a Colt AR-15. It is a fantastic rifle- very light weight, very little recoil, and very easy to shoot accurately. The round that it uses is 5.56×45. This is significantly less powerful than traditional hunting rifles but I like using it for the low recoil and low weight(Hey, it sucks carrying a 10+ lb rifle on a 10 mile hike!). A lot of hunters won’t use the .223/5.56 because they are worried it isn’t powerful enough. I don’t mind the challenge personally- it just means I have to carefully pick my shots. My aging father-in-law also switched to an AR-15 recently for the light weight and low recoil. His 65 year old body wanted less weight to carry through the woods.
I also shoot in competition. I, again, shoot an AR-15 for its low recoil and fantastic accuracy. The bullets and brass it uses are very small and generally cost significantly less than “traditional” long range calibers. Still, accuracy and recoil are winners for me.
I am a homeowner and a husband. We use(you guessed it!) an AR-15 in our home for self defense. Why? Because it is safer, easier to use, and more effective than a shotgun, pistol, or “traditional” hunting rifle. My 5′ 100lb wife is able to lift it with ease(light weight!) and handle the low recoil without flinching. The ammunition, contrary to the fear-mongering of the MSM, is actually less likely to penetrate walls and pose a danger to neighbors. The adjustable stock(one of those EVIL Assault Weapon features…) allows both me and my wife to shoot the same rifle comfortably despite me being full foot taller.
None of this really matters though. Why? Because we are not a need-based society. We have never defined what is legal based on what people “need” to have. It flies in the face of the founding principles of the republic. People do not “need” sports cars, scotch, bicycles, pools, or fatty red meats but we have the freedom to own and consume these things regardless of the dangers associated with them. We are a FREE society and unfortunately true freedom is inherently dangerous. We compromise our “safety” in favor of Liberty every day.
Despite what you have been hearing on CNN and MSNBC, there are plenty of legitimate uses for these “evil” rifles. Please don’t believe the hype. Trying to ban AR-15s is like trying to ban Ford Mustangs.
Rightwing Troll
December 17th, 2012
5:49 pm
“It’s you libs.
Their blood is on YOUR hands.”
No cryberious… it’s on you and your ilks hands, who glorify guns, embrace coarsness and corrosiveness and ignore civility, then screech “slippery slope” and “jack booted thugs” at the first mention of sensible measures.
It’s wholly you and yours, man up and own it. From Koresh, to Columbine to Aurora, to Newtown all perpetrated and implicitly allowed by nuts like you who screamed for it, now run away from it…
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
5:52 pm
Romney@5:21, The previous poster attacked me personally, calling me by name. He could not disagree with me without being disagreeable. I made a general remark against liberals, which is a bit different. BTW, do you know any gun-owning liberals who live in Kennesaw?
Please do no confuse me with Mr. Snarky.
Thank you for reminding me about my ironing & the casserole I need to take care of. Let me know when you need a recipe.
JamVet
December 17th, 2012
5:52 pm
Did Rafe ever come up with his extensive list of those serial murderers who use tuna sandwiches, salad bowls, etc?
And you gridlocked xenophobes can have Kennesaw. LOL!
Cheesy, it was Lynyrd Skynyrd…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWBoeY0AAec
Hillbilly D
December 17th, 2012
5:52 pm
Cheesy Grits @ 5:43
That wasn’t the Allman’s it was Lynyrd Skynyrd.
And in my opinion, everybody here ought to ratchet it down a bit. Nobody on this blog has “blood on their hands” for this incident. Not a soul here had anything to do with it; it’s on the perpetrator and him alone.
Hopeful
December 17th, 2012
5:53 pm
People fight over stuff in WAlmarts when they have a sale it’s crazy out their
JR
December 17th, 2012
5:56 pm
@ Cheesy Grits:
“Funny how countries with strict gun laws dont have near the problem we do.
Its no coincidence.”
________________
By the way, Harvard disagrees with you:
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf
In fact all of the empirical data from the last 20+ years has shown that there really isn’t a correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates. Homicide rates are a symptom of underlying social and cultural issues regardless of gun ownership.
According to the ATF these evil assault weapons are only used in 1.5% of all gun related crimes(which translates to a fraction of a percent of all murders). They actually are not the “weapon of choice” for criminals in America.
Linda`
December 17th, 2012
5:57 pm
The NRA & the conservatives have conceded. We are willing to ban guns who automatically & semi-automatically kill people, all by their lonesome.
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
5:57 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
5:38 pm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?: YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN THE MURDERER OF THOSE 20 CHILDREN.
———————
Yeah, it’s exactly the same thing, freedom-hater.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yeah, it’s exactly the same thing, gun toting children killer.
rightwing troll
December 17th, 2012
5:59 pm
This gun owning liberal lives in Kennesaw… what of it???
JDW
December 17th, 2012
5:59 pm
@Kyle…”Are we trying to reduce arrests or deaths?”
We are trying to reduce violence in our society which by extension could mean both….it is a simple fact….more guns equal more violence…
“More than 31,000 people a year in the United States die from gunshot wounds. Because
victims are disproportionately young, gun violence is one of the leading causes of premature
mortality in the U.S. In addition to these deaths, in 2010, there were an estimated 337,960 nonfatal
violent crimes committed with guns, and 73,505 persons treated in hospital emergency
departments for non-fatal gunshot wounds.
Gun violence in the United States is unusually high for a nation of such wealth. Although
there is little difference in the overall crime rates between the United States and other high income
countries, the homicide rate in the U.S. is seven times higher than the combined
homicide rate of 22 other high-income countries.4 This is because the firearm homicide rate in
the U.S. is twenty times greater than in these other high-income countries. The higher prevalence
of gun ownership and much less restrictive gun laws are important reasons why violent crime in
the U.S. is so much more lethal than in countries of similar income levels”
http://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-center-for-gun-policy-and-research/publications/WhitePaper102512_CGPR.pdf
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
5:59 pm
@Linda`
December 17th, 2012
5:57 pm
The NRA & the conservatives have conceded. We are willing to ban guns who automatically & semi-automatically kill people, all by their lonesome.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is NO LAUGHING MATTER.
VIOLENCE visited on OUR CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF “your” FREEDOM?
VIOLENCE visited on “YOUR” CHILDREN IS THE PRICE OF “your” FREEDOM?
curious
December 17th, 2012
6:03 pm
All you posters saying gun control won’t work,
keep whistling. You didn’t believe Obamacare would be upheld and you were postive Romney would win in a landslide.
maintain your position of no compromise and no suggestion other than more guns, you’ll be steamrolled, again.
getalife
December 17th, 2012
6:05 pm
“God has called them all home” President Obama.
You cons might want to read his spiritual speech.
Parents are demanding change so there will be change.
The massacre of 20 children at schools was the red line crossed.
Start working on accepting it con.
JDW
December 17th, 2012
6:06 pm
“Your link to the 2009 article on increase use of guns in crimes is belied by the fact that homicides are at an all time low.”
Which is a function of improved tramua care.
“The number of U.S. homicides has been falling for two decades, but America has become no less violent.
Crime experts who attribute the drop in killings to better policing or an aging population fail to square the image of a more tranquil nation with this statistic: The reported number of people treated for gunshot attacks from 2001 to 2011 has grown by nearly half. ”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324712504578131360684277812.html
MarkV
December 17th, 2012
6:08 pm
Bob Costas hit the nail on its head when he talked about “culture of guns” as the problem, except that he talked only about NFL. It applies just as well apply that to the nation. Many comments here are an evidence for that.
Romney
December 17th, 2012
6:09 pm
Linda
You are the semantics queen for sure.
and yes, I know several lefties in Kennesaw. Based on that fact, your statement was either born out of ignorance or just a lie for the sake of lying……..
JDW
December 17th, 2012
6:12 pm
“Neither guns or guns used by this little maniac/resourceful fellow the issue. He wouldve completed his mission with or without a gun. He wouldve found a way becaue there is always a way.”
Maybe…maybe not…isn’t it our responsiblity to make it as hard as possible for the nutjobs? Why should we make it so easy?
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
6:13 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 17th, 2012
5:38 pm
@Linda`
December 17th, 2012
5:57 pm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Now I know why “YOU” are on the defensive.
“Why Most Mass Murderers Are Privileged White Men”
(ENTITLEMENT?)
written by Hugo Schwyzer,
Presents an interesting argument about the statistics regarding mass shootings.
Studies show that although rates of general shootings and homicides are about the same for all racial backgrounds, a LARGE percentage of mass murders are committed by affluent white males.
According to Schwyzer, white, upper-middle class men grow up with a sense of ENTITLEMENT.
Affluent, white, males often feel that everything BELONGS to them, because they grew up without having to work for or fight for much of what they were given.
When their feeling of ownership is challenged, a variety of psychological problems can cause them to react violently, in a way that people who grew up differently might not behave. The feeling of ENTITLEMENT of public places that well-off white men feel, causes a confidence that people with other backgrounds most likely do not have.
This confidence becomes a problem when violence is introduced, because these men now feel like they have control in public situations, and lack the fear that many others may have. Not only who wealthy white men feel that they have ownership and power over public places, but they feel that they should have power over the general people. They grow up expecting that their voice will be heard amongst society, believing that they can attain anything that they set out to.
This causes these affluent white males to believe that their pain should be heard by others too, that if the public was unable to solve their problems, then they should have to bear the burden as well.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
How many opponents of stricter gun laws have had a good night sleep since Friday?
December 17th, 2012
6:16 pm
@curious
December 17th, 2012
6:03 pm
All you posters saying gun control won’t work,
keep whistling. You didn’t believe Obamacare would be upheld and you were postive Romney would win in a landslide.
maintain your position of no compromise and no suggestion other than more guns, you’ll be steamrolled, again.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CONS are LOSERS.
They can’t HANDLE THE TRUTH.
Reality
December 17th, 2012
6:34 pm
There is no valid reason for assault weapons. No hunters use them. For protection, there are many other choices. A handgun is a better selection for protection then some automatic rifle (or semi- for that matter).
Our gun laws are currently in place due to the powerful gun lobby. These are gun collectors and the like. They have ZERO interest in how this is impacting our society and killing innocent children and adults.
Reason must prevail.
Tealiban Party
December 17th, 2012
6:35 pm
Why not look to Australia, where an assault rifle ban was instituted several years ago.