Obama’s asking for it; maybe the GOP should give it to him

I agree, we should follow the President’s lead. It is what we voted for and for good reason. The economy only grows in a consumer one like ours when people have money to spend, that is the middle class who in fact spend their money. When working class folks got paid well for their labor they spent and the economy boomed. Now the wealthy in truth already directly own or control the majority of the wealth, and they aren’t investing it here because we don’t have enough money to buy the products they produce for relatively low cost and can sell to the emerging middle classes in developing countries. This process leaves our economy in serious trouble and the solution isn’t to give the wealthy more money.

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I would agree if you can figure out to keep the MSM from pinning the resulting depression on conservative and Republicans.

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Kyle, you describe the “great divide” incompletely. Both Democrats and Republicans favor extending the tax cuts for the middle class.The Republicans want to extend the tax cuts for high-income Americans, as well, but the Democrats want to allow the tax rates of high-income Americans to revert to the Bush-era levels.

Since both parties agree on extending tax cuts for the middle class, why don’t they do that now, and quarrel over the tax rates for high-income Americans later?

Both parties agree on entitlement reforms, and a compromise between the competing demands should be a simple matter.

So, the issue is whether the US economy should be sabotaged if the tax cuts are not extended to high-income Americans.

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A republican and common person sat down with 10 cookies, a democrat walked in and the
republicn said,WATCH OUT, he`s trying to steal your cookies. When the turned around 8
cookies were missing.

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kyle, i read your postings and enjoy them, but could you refresh my memory on your solution to the income/wealth disparity divide which seems to be growing wider?

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Stephenson Billings, please list Obama’s failed policies. Is it bringing unemployment from 10% down to 7.7%? Is is saving our economy from a prolonged recession? Is is ending one war and winding down a second war–both of which has caused 26% of our deficit spending, both of which were not warranted? Was it finally getting a start on breaking the massive double digit inflation in our healthcare spending? If Repigs had left the Obamacare bill alone we would have a single payer healthcare system instead of Frankenstein-Obamacare. Is one of his failed policies saving (however it was done, it was done) the automobile industry with it hundreds of thousands of jobs in the factories and around the factories (stores, restaurants, clothing stores). More drilling permits have been issued in his administration than Repugs admit–the permits just aren’t on public lands like National Parks. Is one of his failed policies trying to keep Repugs from voucherizing Medicare? Know how we, The People, know when we are getting the shaft? When a politician finds a weird name for a bad thing. Notice how many weird, inaccurate phrases Paul Ryan came up with to keep from saying he wanted to give senior citizens a $6000 a year voucher to purchase health insurance from the “free market” . We aren’t stupid. We seniors know that the free market is why our healthcare system sucks. We know that, armed with out voucher we can try to get insurance. We know that if we have Parkinson’s or Alzheimer’s it ain’t gonna happen, no matter how big the voucher. So please, tell me which policy of President Obama is a failed policy. And don’t you dare start your sputtering with deficits. Only about 6% of today’s deficit comes from President Obama’s policies, 22% comes from the wars, most come from past entitlement commitments which must be paid–things passed over the past fifty years. So, come on, big boy, you with e big mouth. To which failed policies do you refer?

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Aynie Sue: Both parties agree on entitlement reforms, and a compromise between the competing demands should be a simple matter.
———————

So why not start with entitlement reform, pass that, then move on to taxes?

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Obozo’s commitment to entitlement reform is about as strong as his former belief in the traditional definition of marriage.

One suspects he will “evolve”.

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Lil’ Barry Bailout: So why not start with entitlement reform, pass that, then move on to taxes?

———————————

Because while the President is specifically stating what taxes he wants to increase, the GOP refuses to detail what “entitlements cuts” they are demanding. If they don’t even know (or are too afraid to say in public) what they want to cut, how serious can they really be about budget cuts?

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Ronnie Raygun: the GOP refuses to detail what “entitlements cuts” they are demanding
————————–

Wrong.

“McConnell told the Wall Street Journal the White House had to agree to structural changes—like including means-testing in Medicare, raising the eligibility age for Medicare, or slowing cost-of-living increases in Social Security payments—in exchange for more tax revenue.”

http://www.ijreview.com/2012/12/23811-hard-line-gops-senate-minority-leader-mitch-mcconnell-demands-structural-entitlement-reform-for-tax-hikes/

Why not do entitlement reform first?

Your excuse just went poof.

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Taxes are going up one way or another. Real Americans voted for it.

But Kyle thinks that’s bad for the nation. After his recent (and long term ) track record of predicting various political and economic outcomes, forgive me if I disregard his warning. Good rule of thumb: If a Republican says it’s bad for the country, then make sure it gets done ASAP. If a Republican says it’s good for the country, then we’re going to be in a cluster&$(# if it happens. If a Republican says “X” will win the election, you’d better bet on “Y”. If Republicans say that the majority favors it, you can be sure the majority of Americans oppose it. As long as everyone understands that Republicans live in opposite world and we act accordingly (like on Nov. 6), this country will be just fine.

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Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!

December 13th, 2012
7:09 am
clem: could you refresh my memory on your solution to the income/wealth disparity divide which seems to be growing wider?
———————-

You’ll first have to explain why that’s a problem.

One response might be to suggest that the lower income/poorer folks should stop doing the things that made them low income/poor.”

LBB…when wealth/income is concentrated in one particular level, the economy becomes a zero-sum game!! The economy stagnates, economic downturns occur, and…as you’d call it…class warfare increases. Tax base constricts, therefore tax increases….particularly on that strata WITH the wealth is mandated! Remember what Willie Suttin said as his reason to rob banks: “That’s where the money is!” Remember: 10% of the populace controls almost 90% of the wealth and income!! When income and wealth are SPREAD throughout the economy…it becomes no longer a zero-sum game!! Tax base is dicersified…and spread, therefore taxes can decrease due to the increased earning capability of the middle class….and national wealth is increased across all strata because the wealth is not concentrated in one economic level.

To answer your statement (lower income/poorer folks should stop doing the things that made them low income/poor)….maybe if the wealth were spread among ALL classes, the motivation NOT to be poor would be increased…..and class mobility would reoccur! When you believe that you’ll always be stuck….and economic conditions reinforce that belief…why try!!!??

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Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

December 13th, 2012
7:25 am

“When obozo came to office the unemployment rate 7.8% and he proposed an 800 Billion dollar stimulus to keep it below 8%. Not only did it not stay below 8%, it rose to 9.9%, they workforce shrunk as the population has grown and I dare anyone to show us where the 800 Billion went.”

We all know that the unemployment rate is a LAGGING indicator as to the effectiveness of the economy…..anywhere from 3-36 months behind the actual economy!! When the economy fell off the table in 2007-8, it was the Bush policies that got us there! Much of the pre-Obama stimulus was directed at the banks and insurance companies (TARP…remember??).

About the $800B…..why don’t you ask those Republican congressmen that posed in front of signs lauding the projects financed BY the stimulus while simultaneously voting AGAINST it?? Why don’t you ask Paul Ryan about HIS REQUEST for stimulus funding for Janesville?? That’s be the beginning to answering your query……….

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This explains a lot about the Republican mentality…or lack of it…

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/12/why-republicans-cant-propose-spending-cuts.html

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Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

December 13th, 2012
7:49 am
HDB – 4 years later we are back to the 7.7% we started at, we have a 4 Trillion dollar spending binge we have to pay for and there are 8 million fewer workers participating in the economy.

What does Bush have to do with this?

MUCH!! Name a President that advocated going to war WITHOUT a tax increase to PAY for it?? Name a President that created a policy without FUNDING it (Medicare Part D, NCLB)? Name a President to CUT taxes during war time, therefore shifting the national wealth to those who already had wealth!! When you shift the funding DOWNWARD, you don’t get as much money because the lower economic classes don’t have it!! When you give a tax break to those who already have wealth, money isn’t spread throughout the economy!! These were Bushisms…….

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hdb, thanks for answering for lil barry dumarse. he’s just bitter because he got his clock cleaned last election.

for aesop, speaking of fables, do you think trickle down is working? should we be in a race to the bottom to match our foreign cheap workforce competition? if so, any idiot could lead a corporation almost. why should mike duke make 12m yearly when avg hourly wage at walmart is around 9 bucks? couldn’t you do his job for say 1m?

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Each day the lunecy of the Left becomes more and more unbelieveable.

The Left spouts of Obama helping the middle class. They could not be more wrong.

Raising taxes on the wealthy – you know, the people who make things and set consumer prices – will result in prices going up. The makers can do that. Everyone pays more and more for something. The wealthy can afford it, the middle class cannot.

Result? Fewer and fewer middle class. Answer? Government payments to the so-called poor. And, since the Government can only give what they take away, you guess it, prices go up again.

Obamanomics is by far the most disasterous economic policy the living have seen. And they think he is their saviour.

If we all make it through the next four in-tact it will be a miracle.

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HDB: Name a President that created a policy without FUNDING it
—————–

Obozo. Stimulus.

Not to mention Obozocare, which is now projected to cost 2-3 times the original estimate.

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Reality: Would you have preferred for our President to have done nothing and allow the Bush’s failed economy to continue to tank without any action? Really?
——————-

Our President Bush fixed the CRA/Dodd/Frank housing meltdown (TARP) and the recession ended in June 2009.

Yes, I would have preferred Obozo do no harm to the economy, but the moochers and parasites prevailed.

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thought that is why repubs lost last election

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Kyoe I wonder why you include the fiction that Obama is ‘taking’ $1.4 billion ouit of the eoncomy? If he uses that to pay down the debt, it would go back to the owners of that debt, who, by and large, are Americans. They will spend it, or invest it, as they see fit.

You’re smarter than that.

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” when effortful, deliberate thought is disengaged, endorsement of conservative ideology increases”

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Kyle,

J -Bo needs to man up and state the cuts he wants so the public will know what he values and what he is willing to sacrifice. When President Obama asks department and agencies to submit their proposal for 10 % across the board spending reductions the rubber will hit the road fast. Naturally, it is good politics to let the cuts be in GOP Johnny Reb led states and then go from there.

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The argument that the 140 billion per year in increased taxes will slow economic growth is important. Equally important is the fact that the taxes proposed barely touch the deficit. We spend 140 billion in less than two weeks.

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There is a reason you think the way you do, but with a little more effort, you might see the error of your ways.

saywhat – If alcohol is keeping me from wanting to have sex with another guy and become a lazy parasite, then I say Bottoms Up! baby.

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Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!

December 13th, 2012
7:58 am

According to Republicans, the stimulus DIDN’T work…..but they asked for and GOT stimulus funding to put constituents back to work!! They got something from it…..but in actuality, voted AGAINST their constituents’ interests!!

I think about what I’m saying; the question is: DO YOU??

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thought cbo and cro said tax hikes on rich minimal impact to economy in terms of job creation

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HDB: According to Republicans, the stimulus DIDN’T work
—————–

Unemployment went UP after the stimulus kicked in. It never fulfilled the promises it’s passage was based on. If that’s “working”, then yeah, it worked great.

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Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
“curious, you can be glad that I’m off the rest of the year. Plenty of time to hang out here at Kyle’s.”

There is a Santa Claus after all!

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I’m off the rest of the year

Now maybe you will get around to cleaning your room so your mom can stop nagging you?

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It’s hilarious how the progs think Republicans who voted against the “stimulus” should have done the responsible thing and not taken any of the handouts their taxpayers were funding, while cheerleading for the Democrats to greedily grab as much as they can!

Typical proglodyte behavior: Goodies for me, responsibility and discipline for thee.

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some folks cannot understand they lost the ideological debate last national election. time to govern.

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In my opinion, neither the Dems or the Reps give a hoot about anything other than the next election cycle. All of the debating and finger pointing on this blog accomplished nothing.

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recent nbc poll says 56 blame both parties; 24 % blame repubs, 19% dems

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Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!

December 13th, 2012
8:33 am

“It’s hilarious how the Republicans think that voting against the “stimulus” was the responsible thing when their constituents needed assistance but simultaneously lauding the effect of the stimulus on their region’s economy, asking for more, paying more to their wealthy friends, and violating a tenet of their hero’s politics (Ronald Reagan).

Typical Republican behavior: Goodies for me, responsibility and discipline for thee.”

There, fixed it……..

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DownInAlbany: In my opinion, neither the Dems or the Reps give a hoot about anything other than the next election cycle
——————

Is that why the GOP is trying to hold out for some spending cuts and entitlement reforms, while the Dems propose nothing but more free stuff?

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Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

December 13th, 2012
8:34 am

“Y’all ever heard of Paul Ryan?”

YEP…heard of him,and read his plan as to how to screw over the American populace while getting riches for his cronies…..that’s all that budget plan was!!

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Just keep in mind, folks, even if we go over the cliff all those spending cuts don’t immediately go into effect and may never go into effect. They are set to gradually occur and Congress can stop them at any time.

If we go over the cliff, the Bush-era tax cuts will go back to normal. So, in 2014, your 2013 tax bill could be higher. BUT, all the Dems have to do after we go over the cliff is come back to work in January and introduce a bill to cut middle class taxes.

There is NO NEED to negotiate anything with Republicans.

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You’re an idiot if you think Boehner is willing to put anything substantial on the table with this lame duck congress. He’s toying with the POTUS and will kick this can down the road into the New Year when the new Congress is sworn in.

This is all posturing as Boehner tries to manage his fragmented party. They can’t find their arses with both hands because, as George Will so ably stated: “Conservatives define themselves in terms of what they oppose.” They don’t “propose”, they just “oppose.”

After the New Year, the Republicans will have an epiphany — the American People see THEM as the problem and unless they want to end up like the Federalist Party or the Whig Party, they’d better get with the program — there just ain’t enough oligarchs to elect a POTUS.

And, that was proven in the last election!

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“we are in for a rough 2013″

An assertation that no one with any knowledge of America’s last five years would possibly argue with.

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I’ll be the first to admit that Fox News isn’t necessarily “fair and balanced,” but at least they restrain themselves somewhat. They have no apes like chris matthews. And they aren’t ate up with communists like the children’s news network.

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Number one, by act of Congress taxes are going up on January 1, 2013. The question on the table is will anyone be exempted from the tax increases?

Number two, by act of Congress spending is going to be cut on January 2, 2013. The question on the table is what spending will be cut?

I do not see the problem. Let Congress go home for Christmas.

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Number two, by act of Congress spending is going to be cut on January 2, 2013

Not meant to be a factual statement.

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The Path to Prosperity: Restoring America’s Promise was the Republican Party’s budget proposal for the United States federal government in the fiscal year 2012. It was succeeded in March 2012 by The Path to Prosperity: A Blueprint for American Renewal, the Republican budget proposal for 2013. Representative Paul Ryan, Chairman of the House Budget Committee, played a prominent public role in drafting and promoting both The Path to Prosperity proposals, and they are therefore often referred to as the Ryan budget, Ryan plan, Ryan proposal, etc.[1][2]

The 2013 proposal provides workers currently under the age of 55 (beginning in 2023) a choice of private plans competing alongside the traditional fee for service option on a newly created Medicare Exchange. Medicare would provide a premium payment to either pay for or offset the premium of the plan chosen by the senior. This was similar to a plan developed with Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, but different enough so that the Democrat opposed it[8]. To secure Medicaid benefits, the budget proposed converting the federal share of Medicaid spending into a block grant indexed for inflation and population growth [9]. The 2013 proposal also caps non-defense discretionary federal spending at $1.029 trillion and consolidates the six existing income tax brackets into two.[2]

Remember when y’all about grandma over the cliff, blah, blah?

Are your memories really this short?

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oops, when y’all were whining about.

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the Senate voted against the budget by a vote of 57–40

DOA = Dead On Arrival

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stands – I forget, what was Huntsman’s vote total in the Repug primaries? Oh yeah, now I remember, it was like ZERO.

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You can make the top tax rate 95% and people like Romney will still pay 10-15%. if even that.

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“please list Obama’s failed policies. . . .Is is ending one war and winding down a second war–both of which has caused 26% of our deficit spending, both of which were not warranted?”

According to DeborahinAthens, continuing a Bush policy now makes it an Obama policy.

So I guess we can now call the current tax rates the Obama tax cuts, right, Deborah?

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Finn,
thanks to a recent series of books, Americans now have 50 shades of gray

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The election is over and Obama won. Get over it.

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I disagree with giving Obama what he wants. While going over the so called fiscal cliff will be painful it won’t be anywhere near as painful as it would be going over the looming fiscal mountain. Obama has been campaigning and playing politics with the non-negotiations on avoiding the fiscal cliff. He wants to show off for his base while thumping his chest and telling the Republicans that they’ve lost, so they should cave to his demands. His behavior is not atypical for a narcissist who believes they’re in a position of power over their opposition. Of course Obama is a narcissist who lacks true leadership ability. Refusing to cave into Obama’s grandstanding demands thus either causing him to backdown or go over the cliff will force him to lead. His inability to lead will therefore expose him as a failure to the entire public including those who will see their government financial asstance significantly reduced. Successful presidents have been those with leadership ability. Obama’s only success has been fooling a small majority of the electorate that his campaign skills translate into presidential leadership skills. The Republicans should call his bluff and force him into a position where campaigning won’t mask his inability to lead.

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“The election is over and Obama won. Get over it.”

The election is over and the GOP still controls the House. Deal with it.

In case you missed it, Darwin, we don’t live in a monarchy or a dictatorship.

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Discharge petition to force vote in Congress on extending tax cuts for all but the highest 2% now up to 182 signatures. There is an easy way out for Boehner in the fiscal cliff negotiations. There are enough lame duck republican congressmen who would have little or no repercussions to getting on board and supporting this bill. House GOP leadership can continue with their public stance while quietly allowing the discharge petition to get enough signatures to allow a vote where it would pass. Once this bill has passed, GOP can gain leverage by telling Obama & the dems they got what they wanted now let us talk about spending cuts.

An old friend of mine who was a judge once told me he always knew he had ruled correctly when both lawyers were unhappy with the ruling.

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but obama won a national contest vs gerrymandered congressional contest…so tie goes to national

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a small majority

LOL

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The “Fiscal Cliff” is the best option on the table right now. It guarantees both increased revenue and descreased spending.

President Obama’s proposal only raises taxes on the top 2% of income earners. His plan has no spending cuts. His proposal sounds like he wants more tax revenues so that the governement can spend more.

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It’s really a shame how our public schools have so completely failed to teach kids what the Constitution means.

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atl tiger, you don’t know what you are talking about…try reading

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clem went to public schools.

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tib, i understand. i also understand the electoral college which says it was a rout and we know that is not true. give me a break. you are probably a proponent of current filibuster practice too. if you are pulling both left and right it seems the people have spoken.

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Here is how it will play out:
Step 1) We go over the cliff
Step 2) on January 2nd Dems sponsor a bill cutting taxes on middle class. Republicans go for it cause they aren’t all complete idiots.
Step 3) As spending cuts come due, congress acts to stop them from taking effect.

See, we “don’t need no stinkin” Rrepublicans.

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Talk about spending cuts? Please say you were only kidding and that you realize the Democrats wouldn’t feel any need to engage in real spending cuts or entitlement reforms.

There is the debt ceiling needing to be raised in Feb or Mar. The public perception would be OK you got your revenues to avoid the cliff now give up some spending on the debt ceiling. Right now House Republicans are polling worse than Obama in this stalemate. They can move these polls in the other direction this way.

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There is the debt ceiling needing to be raised in Feb or Mar.

Neither Dems nor Cons hold any cards in this. Business leaders would trash the lot of them if they defaulted.

Congress has raised the ceiling as needed without any questions through the years. Now the Cons want to grasp at this straw.

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Spending cuts need to go into effect Jan 2 with the fiscall cliff. Spending is at historical highs compared to GDP. We also have historical lows for tax revenue, but that’s because the economy is stagnate and we only have 62% of the workforce actually working. Until the economy recovers, the tax revenue will remain low.

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Tiberius – 9:32 “we don’t live in a monarchy or a dictatorship”

He didn’t say we did.

Are you taking up mindreading to make up for your utter lack of reading comprehension?

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More than ever the self-destructive neocons are operating from a position of trickle down weakness.

And if things go south with the economy, most Americans are going to hold the GOP takers and mooches responsible.

The ongoing legacy of the Bush Depression.

“And one day Republicans will be called upon to pick up the pieces.”

Hysterical…

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oops, that is good name you :
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/ireland/index.html

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carlos, when a lib repeats that Obama won the election and says, “Get over it”, the transparency of the comment is clear – submit to his authority and just do what Obama wants.

The transparency of liberal thought would be much easier for you to grasp if you weren’t so thick-headed.

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@curious

I’d like to think that Kyle Wingfield isintelligent and man of conscience. I cannot help but wonder if he rolls his eyes at some of his faithful posters that come out here daily and serial post the same delusional madness day in and day out, all under the guise of “Conservatism”. In fact, it’s one of the things in my opinion that brings his blog in particular down. This is why I peek in every so often to see what’s going on and not frequent this place. One can only take so much. I get the whole freedom of speech thing, but geez. If I were a blog moderator regardless of political position I would be quick to call people on their BS. In fact I think it aids in the debate when you challenge people who are even on the same side of the political aisle as you, esepecially if you see they hurt the cause by perpetual bombasticity, crackpot propaganda and those things.

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East Cobb

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

It’s actually 63.6%, I was approximating

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“congressional Republicans might find themselves with little choice but to allow his policies to prove him wrong in practice”

In this case, the only choice might just be the best choice. Let him jack the taxes up and we’ll see how far offshore the money goes.

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MarkV: Kyle pretends to be worried about Obama wanting to take an extra $140 billion out of the economy for deficit reduction
————————-

Obozo isn’t applying the new tax revenue to deficit reduction. He’s spending most of it on new “stimulus” and other programs.

Don’t fear facts.

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warming up outside, thanks for all the nonresponses to banter. chow

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@Tiberius…”The election is over and the GOP still controls the House. ”

And if they sit there with their thumb up thier @$$ then taxes go up for all on Jan. 1. While I don’t mind my guess is that strategy will mean fewer Republicans in the House in 2014. YAHOO!

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Historical Spending levels have averaged 20.2% of GDP and Historical Tax Revenue levels have averaged 18.1% of GDP

What are they in 2012?
Spending = 23.3%
Tax Revenue = 16.1%

http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/runaway-spending-tax-revenue

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Kyle, the GOP should do their constitutional duty and vote their conscience. The deal will then go down, and yes the GOP gets the blame. The GOP always gets the blame, because they are so inept at selling their point of view and the press is not going to do their work for them. The press is so invested in their man, Barry I, that their is no objectivity there whatsoever. The GOP first needs to find ways around the MSM directly to the people. Then they need to find an erudite, well spoken, effective spokesman and have him explain their position and the dire state of our national financial situation. Buy, thirty minutes on national TV to explain our dire straights.

For once they need to dispossess the people of the notion that Barry is doing any of this for the purpose of improving our debt or deficit. Expose him, not debate him, you can’t debate with a charlatan.

Eventually, after four more years in the economic wilderness, that is Obamanism, people are going to recognize that the economy sucks, because of Barry’s policies and his inability to work with the opposition to bring about necessary changes.

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Just reading these posts you can understand why the states with lower education levels are red states.

The irony is the states with the most takers and moochers are all red states.

In fact the extremely poor rural south is mostly subsidized with federal money from the richer blue states.

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Deflection, Bleck? Is that the best you can do?

Don’t fear facts.

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Cheesy, in fact, most welfare recipients live in blue states.

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JDW, as usual, you’re reading comprehension is at an all-time low.

Even for you.

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Kyle, I think many of us see this as a matter of fairness. Federal spending under the Obama administration did not rise sharply because of Social Security and Medicare; it rose because of unemployment and the sudden vast increase in the numbers of people eligible for real safety-net programs like food stamps and rent subsidies and Medicaid. This was not aid to chronic layabouts, a lazy class that never wanted to work; this was aid to people who had worked, had paid their way, and suddenly couldn’t. The deficit increased sharply because along with this sudden increase in safety net spending, there was a corresponding drop in federal revenues because people who had previously held jobs and paid taxes could no longer do either. Unemployment and the sharp drop in tax revenues savaged the middle class and destroyed government budgets at all levels. The wealthy hardly lost a step; after a bad year or two, corporate profits went back up and so did executive compensation. There were not a lot of Fortune 500 executives who lost their jobs and their homes, and the few Wall Street bankers who lost their bonuses in 2009 while the government was bailing out their firms complained bitterly about it. Now we have a huge deficit, and when you talk about spending cuts, you’re literally talking about taking food out of people’s mouths. And the lower and middle classes are still recovering from years of pay cuts, layoffs, and being forced into lower-paying jobs. We need to raise revenues, but we can’t get revenues from those people without reducing their buying power and harming the economy. Where can we go to increase federal revenues? Hmm, let’s think.

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O’ and Tiberius…you’re is a contraction for you are. That is different from your. Common mistake among those with reading difficulties.

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Giving what he wants so in two years we vote out those stupid liberals who want this clown and turn the country around

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“If Romney had won you’d be the first one here telling liberals to “get over it”.”

Actually, carlos, I’m not as petty as you liberals are, so I wouldn’t.

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carlos

He wouldn’t do that has he said, yet he was one of several calling Romney, President Romney before the election………

You two have a great day

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John Barrow for Governor in 2014 !! This state need to join the rest of the civilized world.

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@Tiberius…”Someday, JDW, you’ll be acquainted with the term “analysis”.”

Why look more pontificating with no basis in fact.

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Congress is just mirroring the people’s behavior. Here we are on the blog calling each other stupid and drawing lines in the sand. We don’t mind burning the neighborhood down over our so-called “principles.” That’s the message we the people send to our elected representatives whether they are local, State or Federal. If you’re moderate, you’re screwed because nobody listens to you. You’re not valuable to our polarized situation – you’re pushed to the margins.

Country first, people.

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Tell us again how everybody but you Romney cons are nothing but stupid lazy takers and mooches on the plantation, OK?

…so in two years we vote out…

After all, that winning strategery worked so well for you back on November 6th.

At this rate, if you trickle down rubes win the White House back within 12 years, I’ll be shocked…

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In the last 24 years the Republican have gotten more votes in exactly 1 National Election.

If it wasn’t for the rigging of districts in the House they would be gone altogether.

I wont be much longer though.

Over 60 percent of people 30 and under voted Democratic this time around.

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@Tiberius…”more lack of understanding of the English language by JDW”

Really lets look…

Analysis-the process of breaking a complex topic or substance into smaller parts to gain a better understanding of it.

For example the recent election process. As I remember I analyzed the situation and concluded that Obama would win with 300+ EV’s, Dems would retain the Senate with 53+ and make gains of 3 to 7 in the House.

You on the other hand had a gut that told you Romney would win, thought the Senate too close to call and dismissed any gains in the House.

How did that analysis work out for you?

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JDW, comparing your “analysis” from a few days before the election, and my projected calls from 12 months before is like comparing apples to oranges.

Or comparing you to an intelligent person.

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You on the other hand had a gut that told you Romney would win

Kyle’s gut told him the same.

Bush used to make decisions based on his “gut” as well.

Might as well say gut means wishful thinking.

Us Democrats. We like to use our brains and things like logic and reason.

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And Libs say conservatives are stupid:

And the Winner of TIME’s Person of the Year Reader Poll Is…

“Kim Jong Un is having a good year. After taking over the leadership of North Korea from his late father Kim Jong Il, at the end of 2011, he’s solidified his control over the country, appeared on TIME’s cover and he was even named ‘Sexiest Man Alive.’ (OK, that honor was actually bestowed as a spoof in the satirical newspaper, The Onion, but a Chinese news service mistook the Onion piece for real news and the story went global.)

Now, he’s gotten the most votes in TIME’s completely unscientific reader Person of the Year Poll with 5.6 million votes. Not bad for a man who didn’t make an official public appearance until 2010.”

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“Over 60 percent of people 30 and under voted Democratic this time around.”

Kinda sad. But I guess all that indoctrination is working.

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“And Libs say conservatives are stupid:”

Not actual conservatives (though I haven’t actually seen any in AGES), just neocons masquerading as them.

But that problem now seems to be fixing itself…

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Finn McCool (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)

December 13th, 2012
9:55 am

Finn, I see the same thing…………

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@Tiberius…”comparing your “analysis” from a few days before the election, and my projected calls from 12 months before is like comparing apples to oranges.”

Ughhh…no….I am refering to your posts in the day leading up to the election. In fact I believe the last such post was within a couple of days…so no we have apples to apples here…even if you “can’t remember”

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Summary from Kyle and other idiot conservative republicans….

WHINE!!!!

You didn’t win the election. The people of America don’t agree with you. Get over it.

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“They adjust for that. ”

Try again, Cheesy.

I win

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I tend to agree. Let these people who voted for this guy get what they want. Give it to them and watch the poor they supposedly care about take the brunt of it. When you raise taxes on the supposed rich, does anyone really believe they’re going to eat that tax cut out of their own wallets? The raise taxes on the rich crowd are really too naive to even have a say, but this is America, and even the dumbest people are allowed to help in the downfall of the country. Because what is going to happen is the tax hike on the rich is just going to get passed down to the poor in the form of lower wages and higher prices. Trickle down taxation designed to keep the poor exactly where they are….poor and dependent on one party of government for whatever they get.

So yea, I’m all for it. Republicans should just all stand up in unison and capitulate. They should offer no resistance to any and all socialist progressive programs Obama and the wicked witch of the west (Pelosi) can dream up. Let them drive this country to the brink of 3rd world status. Idiots in this country deserve what they get. I’m already poor, and really can’t be made much more poor than I am now. So have at it progressive socialist types.

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Day-Oh!

Belafonte’s Advice to Obama: Imprison Opposition “Like a Third World Dictator”

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/12/belafonte-advice-to-obama-imprison-opposition-like-a-third-world-dictator-video/

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@Cheesy Grits- Younger people and educated people also watch reality TV. What’s your point? My former college friends are very educated but are enamoured by the celebrity of the president. They have a tough time seeing past their love affair, despite how logical they may think in all other areas of their lives.

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JamVet

Not actual conservatives (though I haven’t actually seen any in AGES),

What color is the sky in your world?

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Could be that younger people really are smarter.

Could be that they have never been acquainted with truth and reality.

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“Could be that they have never been acquainted with truth and reality.”

True. What’s that saying? If you’re not a liberal when you’re young, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative when you’re older, you have no brain.

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““Educated people tend to vote Democratic.” – Intelligence and education are two different things. You don’t have to be intelligent to be “educated”.

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I’m willing to bet that most of those under-30 voters are still living at home because they can’t find a job with their art history degrees.

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“And old people watch a lot of Matlock and Murder she Wrote.”

Actually, they tend to watch a lot of NEWS, hence they are usually more informed.

At least, when the Democrats aren’t trying to scare the crap out of them with lies.

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“Check the numbers on people with advanced degrees.

They overwhelmingly went to Obama.”

You mean those “students” who spend years and years on a college campus and not in the real world? Not surprising.

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Stephenson

Are you saying it is getting crowded with you and your younger brother in your parents basement since he moved home?

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Stephie, did you ever get those Rush Limbaugh slut videos of her that you ordered?

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Wow…arguing over things that have been passed on for years!! Entitlement reform – Er, when the R’s had control, guess the wars took your eyes OFF the fiscal ball. Job creators – the American workforce has experienced the most paralyzing loss of income/jobs and have experienced a colossal increase (equated to loss of pay) through healthcare benefits DIRECTLY related to those “job creators.” The American economy was battered by incredible job losses through the 2000’s culminating in stagnating loss of revenue from the living room, through communities, cities, counties and have wreaked havoc on State budgets, COUNTRYWIDE. Bank deregulation, out of control healthcare costs, corporate greed, and quizzical efforts by R’s to retard voter turnout, women’s health issues, DOMA, and other policies that clearly are country forward being held hostage in Washington by R’s who have a power mandate to protect the rich, corporations, the evangelical right, and the crumbling Republican ideals that make no sense and frankly, loses any validity when details (or the lack thereof) are fact checked.

Here is the TRUTH – The American people spoke. Loudly. They reelected a sitting President not just because of his color, his ability to channel Al Green, not just by Latinos/Hispanics, not just by young college educated citizens, not just by African-Americans, not just by the elderly, not just by food stamp recipients, not just by labor unions, no one group alone reelected the President. The American People reelected the President. The Republican Party is in its “Reinvent” mode, but continues to be challenged by its own self-inflicted wounds, by most comments, the wounds could be fatal to the party. I think those wounds are shutting down the more rational aspect of the party. When it is clear that the American people want solutions from their elected Republican officials, it is not the constituency that they represent, it’s Grover Norquist and the Americans for Tax Reform. He has a pledge from a large Republican contingent that he has no problem beating them with. So we see who owns the R’s on tax reform. With regard to healthcare, hmmmm, R’s defend them and pass legislation that protects them from negotiating pharmaceuticals, protect big insurance from single payer (public options), big business to keep wages low and eliminate collective bargaining rights, and allow big business to take the country’s working class (middle or otherwise), back to the repressive and dangerous practices that necessitated labor unions and legislation to prevent those practices in the first place.

The R’s have painted themselves as obstructionists. Here is a line from the campaign, “We have tried those policies in the past and they have failed.” One only needs to look at the economy from 2000 – 2008. Then look at the Obama period from the President’s initial win to now. We the people see progress, we just haven’t felt it at our level yet (gee, thanks, Republicans!!). We see the progress, although you R’s cannot. We believe in the progressive trajectory we are on, although you R’s cannot and were soundly beaten. We want our country to succeed, on our terms, with everyone pitching in, not penalizing success, more encouraging success and all paying their fair share. That’s how we advanced as a nation through Clinton’s administration, only to fall back after the Bush years.

We have a clear picture of our future and WE have spoken. The acts of the R’s in Washington are incredulous, petty, and a danger to our economy. Sure we can clean up entitlements to run more efficiently, not obliterate them. I’ve worked hard all my life. I’ve served my country in the military. I have had debates with R’s, Cons, Neo-Cons, and I’s. And we always walk away from one another having learned something. One of my friends, a devout and proud R, said to me the other day, “Although I thought our party’s nominee was weak in some areas, I thought he would win because of my party’s hate of Obama. What I’ve come to realize is that you can’t hate a person for partisan reasons, you must hate him for his policies. The President policies are working, effectively.” And with that he became a Democrat.

I feel badly for your losses R’s. The American people just don’t want what your selling anymore.

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I see Truth got his/her Dem talking points today

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Amen NotYou

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@Tibierus…”Except that what you believe is usually wrong”

Really…

Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right
November 2nd, 2012
6:45 am
“I like the way early voting is going with less Democrats and more Republicans. Given that historically more Republicans vote in significantly higher numbers on election day, if the trend continues we’ll be say President Romney early on November 7th.”

Opps didn’t happen that way did it?

Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 2nd, 2012
8:04 am
“because the majority of polls in question have oversampling of Democrats trying to mimic 2008 turnout (which I don’t believe will happen), and two, because voting trends of actual and historical trump polls.”

Opps Faux News led you astray I suppose…

Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 5th, 2012
7:12 pm
“I still maintain that it will be less than 20 electoral votes between the winner and loser. That will be thrown out the window if Romney wins PA. And given the early absentee voting in OH and demographic changes, I just don’t see a path for Obama to win that state.”

Opps…now how did Ohio turn out? Do the numbers 332 to 206 ring a bell…pssttt thats a difference of 126 not less than 20.

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S Billings: My wife has her PhD and I have practiced engineering for 36 years. We are independent leaning fiscally conservative Demos who vote for the best person running. The repubs in this state have little to offer. They talk about saving our freedom…and then make rules for abortions, etc restricting freedom of choice . They make tax cuts for businesses that do not need them (Delta fuel tax cut -$1.6 BILLION in profits.)

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Road-

And the Dems are like you, fiscally conservative?

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No Stephie, my boy, I attended a public school, went to college (working my way through), served in the military, returned to the private sector and am doing something useful (you know, like a doctor, engineer, or a lawyer….). I also have lived over 50 years and remember when you didn’t have to do all that and you could get a job, and take care of you and your family. You could move up in the company from hard work and determination and be a better citizen in your community. (Guess those are talking points too). And hey, those great wages that everyone was making came from labor arguing for better for the average person.

And your argument about Democratic Talking Points was what again?

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Sister Sarah

I’d like to think that Kyle Wingfield isintelligent and man of conscience. I cannot help but wonder if he rolls his eyes at some of his faithful posters that come out here daily and serial post the same delusional madness day in and day out, all under the guise of “Conservatism”. In fact, it’s one of the things in my opinion that brings his blog in particular down. This is why I peek in every so often to see what’s going on and not frequent this place……..In fact I think it aids in the debate when you challenge people who are even on the same side of the political aisle as you, esepecially if you see they hurt the cause by perpetual bombasticity, crackpot propaganda and those things.

From now on, when presented with the facts, which I don’t expect to see very often from any libs, I will respond by hysterically shrieking that ROMNEY LOST THE ELECTION!!!!, so that Sister Sarah will feel more ideologically comfortable and will come here more often.

Honest, I will.

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JDW

Pure ideological spin!
Clinton held federal spending down. “The era of big government is over!” He lowered the cap gains tax and he benefited from the I/T boom, which was pure serendipity. Growth fueled Clinton’s success with the economy and growth can help us get out of this mess, if Obama did not shoot himself in the fool at every turn.

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Yes, yes, JDW. I was wrong in my prediction on the Presidential election, as I stated the very next day.

You weren’t just wrong.

You were off the reservation on another planet way way off.

This is what happens when you get your info inside the conservative media bubble.

You dont really get anywhere close to an accurate picture of whats happening.

Mike Silver and the New York Times nailed it. Conservative media and Fox News. Way way off

Very telling.

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Do it Boehner…Run it off the cliff….!!!!!! Default the country and the American people by not raising the debt ceiling….!!!!!! Let’s see who gets the blame…!!!!

America will recover from electing fools like you and others in states like Michigan, Virginia, Florida, Ohio, and Wisconsin….We recovered from 9/11, Vietnam, and the Civil War….

Sure, it may take a while and be very painful…but it will be worth it to permanantely rid the country of the left-over Conservative STENCH that has beset this great land since the days of the Bush adminstration…..!!!!!!

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Cheesy, I thought it was Nate Silver? Is it true that you wish you were female, so you could have his baby?

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redneck-

It takes two to dance and I don’t see Obama shaking a leg either.

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Tiberius – 11:27 “I’m not as petty as you liberals”

Real “liberals” are, by definition, not “petty”.

You, on the other hand, give a whole new meaning to the word.

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Cheesy, I thought it was Nate Silver? Is it true that you wish you were female, so you could have his baby?

It is Nate Silver.

And no to the second part.

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I never in my life imagined that anyone could become obsessed with Mitt Romney but I was wrong.

ROMNEY LOST THE ELECTION!!!!

Your doing great.

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More taxes and more regulations drove the economy during Clinton’s regime. Not buying that. Dotcom bubble had nothing to do with either, it was just technology bursting out all over as it does occasionally.

BTW, whatever happened to Paygo, that you obviously think is beneficial. Pelosi screamed “paygo” every time Bush wanted to spend money. Since she ran the house and Hairy ran the Senate the last two years of the Bush regime, why did she not enforcethis provision, and why has no one mentioned paygo since 2009? Hypocrites? I like you think we need to get back to Paygo, but Barry just wants more and more spending and no real cuts.

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“You weren’t just wrong.

You were off the reservation on another planet way way off.”

As was pointed out, Cheesy, if only 400k votes had switched in just 4 states, my prediction would have been spot-on. The analysis wasn’t that far off based on actual votes. That the Electoral College swung so much one way was. But had a relatively few actual votes in certain areas changed hands, there would be a lot less spiking the ball (which you libs excel at) and a lot more leadership on display (which you libs fail at).

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@Rafe…”BTW, whatever happened to Paygo, that you obviously think is beneficial. ”

Duhbya’s first act was to end it. His second to lower taxes. Today we live with the legacy.

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If we’re still dealing with the recession that occurred on Bush’s watch, it’s because Obozo so badly mismanaged things as to stunt the recovery.

Obozo: America hating economy killer.

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When people like Mitt Romney pay half the rate the average American does
————–

What rate did Romney pay?

What rate does the average American pay?

You’re full of it.

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Romney paid 14 percent.

The average American pays double that ( If not more )

It is you my friend who are full of it.

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Unemployment was around 5% after Our President Bush cut taxes for all tax payers.

Wrong.

It was going up like a rocket his last two years and was out of control when he left office.

Try again.

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@Tiberius…could you pick a side of your mouth to use…

Here you write…

“As was pointed out, Cheesy, if only 400k votes had switched in just 4 states, my prediction would have been spot-on. ”

Earlier today, in response to a comment regarding House vote totals, you wrote…

”I was unaware that was how we voted in a Constitutional Republic”

So which is it senility or hypocrisy?

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“Why did the economy tank on his watch ?”

The culmination of over 30 years of liberal economic and political policies.

Next?

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Cheesy: Immune to facts.

Unemployment in December of each year:

2002 6.0% (the year prior to the tax cuts)
2003 5.7%
2004 5.4%
2005 4.9%
2006 4.4%
2007 5.0%
2008 7.3%
2009 9.9% (After one year of Obozofailures)

Yeah, that unemployment under Our President Bush was a real bear.

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@lil’ Barry,

You cannot accept your own facts and the reality of what happened in those years.

Do you really think that Our President Obama enacted policies so quickly within year one to change unemployment like that? Really?

You don’t think that BushLeague had anything to do with it? Really?

You might be even more dumb than I thought – and that was pretty dumb!

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Lil Barry 10:53,

Your wrong!

Love and Kisses,

Pizzaman

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Your speaker cut and ran again.

He went home so no deal.

You lose again cons.

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No deal is the best deal.

Americans win.

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O’ another thing relative to this 400,000 vote fantasy…it’s actually 562,000 votes. Mittens would have had to turn NH, NV, FL, IA, CO and VA. 562,000 votes represents 3% of the vote total in those states…so actually it’s not that close even with spin.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AjYj9mXElO_QdHpla01oWE1jOFZRbnhJZkZpVFNKeVE&toomany=true

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Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

December 13th, 2012
1:41 pm
“Why did the economy tank on his watch ?”

The culmination of over 30 years of liberal economic and political policies.

Next?”

Actually, Tibbi, Republican policies under Reagan were the precursors to economic failure…..when the deficit QUADRUPLED in Reagan’s first YEAR…while under Carter, the deficits were flat for four years(160B for Reagan, $46B under Carter). The idea of cutting taxes and increasing spending put this nation on the course we now find ourselves!! It would have been worse…but Reagan did RAISE taxes to keep the deficits from really exploding over the 200B mark in his first term…..and remember GHWB also raised taxes!

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The end of our President’s first term is going extremely well.

Our economy is back and growing.

No scandals, no attacks on the homeland, no collapses and no occupations.

Competent and history making President.

You are on the wrong side of history cons.

Your behavior is unacceptable and sets a horrible example for the children.

Unhinged, unpatriotic and unAmerican.

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“Under LIBERAL Bill Clinton, the economy was the best we have ever had.”

Reality, there are many economies that have generated more sustained and real growth in the history of this nation than the dot-com bubble of Bill Clinton’s economy. In addition, you should really try to get it into your head that Congressional action and Presidential action go hand in hand in determining the success or failure of a Presidency, as well as outside forces that are beyond the control of government action.

I will never credit any one administration or Congress for economic sustainability, as neither group is responsible for the success of an economy, even if they both can kill one.

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Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!

December 13th, 2012
1:51 pm
T”he fact is that Obozo inherited a recovery, made all the wrong moves, and caused unemployment to increase from 7.7% to 10%. The fact is that Obozo increased spending by $700 billion, every year, above where Our President Bush had it. The fact is that Obozo is the only one to ever run or propose trillion dollar deficits, every year. The fact is we’ve never had as many folks living in poverty as we do under Obozo.”

Actually, LBB….the economy WASN’T in recovery under Bush……when the economic markets needed the TARP infusion it was October, 2008!! The economy didn’t begin its recovery until the middle of 2009…..and when the stimulus was added in March of 2009, the economy started to turn about 5 months later!!

Unemployment is also a LAGGING indicator…..the effect of political policies aren’t fully known for as long as 36 months…..so if you take your 9.9% unemployment rate in 2009….the policy effect would have started as early as 2006….in the heart of the Bush Years……..

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Reality, please keep up with the English language, OK?

When you CUT tax rates, they go down. They are the new norm.

When you change the rates from where they currently are to a higher rate, it is a tax rate increase.

Nice try at spin, but epic failure.

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HDB, it is clear that you cannot get past simply focusing on tax rates and revenues regarding economic growth or stagnation, nor do you even remotely understand the Reagan Presidency and it’s many nuances.

I’ve tried before, but I am NOT going to explain it to you again, as you are incapable of understanding complex concepts.

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If a Republican Congress hadn’t made Bill Clinton go along with all the policies that worked during his Presidency, he wouldn’t have the record that he does.The Clinton economy was fueled by a GOP Senate and House that forced Clinton to cut spending, cut rules and regulations, lower capital gains taxes (to encourage investment- thereby creating jobs), and end welfare as we know it. And the GOP Congress killed a government-run health care proposal, too. The Clinton economy boomed because government, spending, and entitlements were much smaller than they are today. Each time Obama demands Clinton era tax rates, then Boehner should say, “Let’s go back to the size of government, spending, and entitlements under Clinton. Let’s eliminate all the rules, regulations and mandates since Clinton. Then we can compromise and raise rates to Clinton levels.” Yes Bush’s economic policies were more that of a Liberal than a Conservative. Liberals are intellectually dishonest.

Liberals are so intellectually dishonest.

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They overwhelmingly went to Obama

As did the uninformed voters AKA the stupids who the Democrats have to bribe and bus to the pools to get their vote.

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Reality, you’re a very pathetic person to me, as I made no post whatsoever as to unemployment figures.

The fact that you cannot pay attention to who is posting is what makes you a very pathetic person to me.

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@ Love Me,

LOL! Seems that you are the one that twists facts and refuse to see reality.

Under President Clinton, the Country enjoyed a great economy. Okay, fine, the dot com bubble certainly fueled it. And, we had a budget surplus.

It was BECAUSE we had a surplus that ALLOWED President Clinton do to those other things. It is not the other way around as you post.

Get your facts straight!

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I’ve asked this question of our lib friends before and have never heard an answer.

Can you explain how tax increases cause an economy to grow?

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oops…polls not pools @2:21

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Tiberius = Lil’ Barry

Same person, different handle.

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@Tiberius…”Fixed your typos, JDW.”

O’ Dear bit of trouble with reality today…or maybe just your run of the mill temper tantrum. Not surprising when bested those with the emotional maturity of a 5 year old do have that problem. Are you holding your breath too?

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Likewise, giving rich people a tax cut (putting more money into the hands of people who don’t need to immediately use it to pay bills, eat, etc) also turns the stock market into a casino.

suddenly you’ve added millions of new $’s that want desperately to be invested. But, at the very same time, you haven’t added any new investment vehicles. So, more dollars chasing fewer “good, safe” assets. Prices go up and, eventually, the unsafe, sleazy investment vehicles start to increase in value as well so they begin to look better and better. All of a sudden you’ve got a full-fledged “crappy asset” market going on with companies creating new versions every day.

And……you know the rest of the story.

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“Same person, different handle.”

Not so, Reality. That has already been debunked by Kyle a few days ago.

Right before someone else who tried to make that case was booted off the blog permanently.

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Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

December 13th, 2012
2:24 pm

You’re going to bring out the idea of Reagan’s spending was to bring the military levels up….but what many DON’T remember that tehe military buildup….particularly in weapons systems started under Jimmy Carter!! R&D spending in the Pentagon went UP and the weapons systems that went online under Reagan started under Carter…………..

Carter kept government spending FLAT because of the economy he was given after Nixon/Ford…….and that’s when the credit markets went offline and interest rates climbed……

I know the history, Tibbi…I was IN Washington at that time………..

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Can you explain how tax increases cause an economy to grow?

They don’t directly work that way. Do you need someone to explain that to you? Likewise, tax decreases don’t directly cause an economy to grow either.

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Barry – 2:23

The Bush tax cuts have been in place for years now.

Why hasn’t the economy grown?

There’s your answer. Neither tax increases or cuts, in and by themselves, will cause an economy to either grow or shrink. It takes intelligent financial leadership from the political and business community. Unfortunately, all we’ve gotten from them is selfishness and greed.

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“Increasing tax rates results in more income. ”

Not intended to be a factual statement.

Which further dismisses your follow-on uses, Reality.

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Reality:
But, promise to stay with me and to use the few brain cells you might possess to think about it

You lost Tib at that statement.

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Elizabeth Warren is a liar and and idiot. Just another marginal human being elected from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts who wouldn’t be elected dog-catcher in just about any other state except maybe California or Illinois.

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“Maybe you folks just like banging your head against the blog walls?”

That would never happen to you, Finn.

You’d have to have an independent thought on your own to post here before you could get to the frustration part.

Good thing THAT will never happen.

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HDB, as usual, you’re missing the point.

But again, I’m not going to waste my time (again) in schooling you on the Reagan Presidency.

And I was serving in the military in Washington when Reagan was President. Your point?

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Thanks for at least trying, Reality. Of course, you’ve completely failed. Taking the income from one person, sending it to the government, and having a bureaucrat decide how to spend it is naturally going to be less efficient and productive than allowing the person who earned the income to decide how to spend it.

As an aside, are you aware that it’s possible to get a college education without demanding that your fellow taxpayers pay for it. No, really, it is!

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But again, I’m not going to waste my time (again) in schooling you on the Reagan Presidency.

It was a disaster wasn’t it.

Quadrupled the National Debt.

And when the Marine barracks were bombed in Beirut what did he do ?

He cut and ran like a coward pulled out all the troops.

I cant blame the last 2 years on him because I dont think he was even lucid at that point.

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Thanks for at least trying, Reality. Of course, you’ve completely failed. Taking the income from one person, sending it to the government, and having a bureaucrat decide how to spend it is naturally going to be less efficient and productive than allowing the person who earned the income to decide how to spend it.

Thats what southerners do everyday.

They get far more back from the Feds than they ever send in taxes.

Red States = Moochers

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barring any galactically stupid performances.

And how many of those occurred on the Con side in just a matter of months?

Here’s a hint: “the party of rape”

We’ll be redrawing those lines after the 2020 census too. Which will handily occur at the end of President Elizabeth Warren’s first term in office.

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Republican will mantain pockets of power in this country in certain areas etc.

But Nationally they are in big big trouble.

They have moved so far to the right they cant win on the big stage anymore.

I dont see another Republican winning the White House in my lifetime.

And im not old.

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Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

December 13th, 2012
2:49 pm

House Republicans? Got it.

The Republican lost seats in the House and Senate.

They will lose the House altogether in 2014.

If the American people wanted the Dems back in charge of the house then why did they not put them back in in Nov?

Paul Ryan’s district voted for Obama by 53% but then put him back in office by a 55% margin. Wonder why this happened? There were 6 house districts in Pa, 4 districts in Ohio and 4 districts in FL that did the same thing in voting for Obama put putting their Republican house member back in office.

So what is your conclusion about these facts? Mine is that the American people did not want Dems to control the WH, Senate and HOR’s.

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So what is your conclusion about these facts?

They like Ryan better than the other guy? I don’t see a large group of voters deciding to vote for a certain House Rep because “they don’t want to lose the house” when even Nate Silver was telling everyone that the House would stay Republican.

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I’ll have to drop this off at the neighbor fella’s blog during tomorrow night’s music fest.

Pennies over patriotism? Stars move to tax havens

In 2005, the Beatles’ Ringo Starr took up residency in Monaco, where he gets to keep a higher percentage of royalties than he would in Britain or Los Angeles.

The Beatles’ resentment of high taxes goes back to their 1960s song “Taxman.” George Harrison penned it in protest of the British government’s 95 percent supertax on the rich, evoked by the lyrics: “There’s one for you, nineteen for me.”

Harrison reportedly said later, “‘Taxman’ was when I first realized that even though we had started earning money, we were actually giving most of it away in taxes.”

Can you IMAGINE!!??!!

In 1972, The Rolling Stones controversially moved to the south of France to escape onerous British taxes. Though it caused a stink at the time, it spawned one of the group’s most seminal albums, “Exile on Main St.” The title is a reference to their tax-dodging. In 2006, British media branded them the “Stingy Stones” with reports that they’d paid just 1.6 percent tax on their earnings of $389 million over the previous two decades.

“Yea, yea…..it sounds good but we (they) can’t dance to it.”

schnirt

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if this, if that

If a frog had wings…….

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts…………….

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so close to losing the election that Rove melted down by 10 o’clock and most folks went to sleep………..

yeah it was a tight race

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Finn, in case you didn’t know this (and of course, you don’t), it doesn’t matter how many people in total voted across the country for Democrats or Republicans in House races – it only matters as regards the individual districts – and they are heavily gerrymandered to produce expected results in about 92%-95% of all cases. There are still a few that will swing one way or another depending on how bad a particular party is perceived, but for the most part there aren’t even contested races (less than 15% differential) in most House races across America.

That is REALITY.

Republicans lost seats due to redistricting via the U.S. Census. States had to consolidate districts in some cases, and some legislatures felt comfortable in putting certain sitting Congressmen into others, expecting them to still win in mixed ares. Some worked out that way, and some did not. Either way, the few that did change hands were not even REMOTELY enough to change the makeup of the House, and there is no indication that will change in future elections until the next round of gerrymandering following the 2020 census.

That is (again) REALITY.

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That is (again) REALITY.

whine whine whine whine whine….it never ends.

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And the whiners whined on……..

Just keep doing exactly what you are doing………… and things will change

NOT REALITY………

“chuckles”

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“spike spike spike spike spike….it never ends.”

Fixed your typo, Finn.

Typical classless and clueless liberal.

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JDW
Duhbya’s first act was to end it. His second to lower taxes. Today we live with the legacy.

So, Bush wrote the law, voted it through, and enforced it? Well I knew, we didn’t need to be paying those congresspeople, like Reid and Pelosi.

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“Obama says the people voted for these higher taxes.”

Fortunately for him, unfortunately for the rest of us, most of the people who voted for higher taxes don’t pay taxes.

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Ya’ll are doing it again, just wasting your time & energy.

There are 7 steps to problem solving & you are arguing over how to solve the “problem” without defining, identifying & analyzing what the problems really are.

Obama campaigned on raising taxes on the top earners. He originally asked for $800 B, then $1.6 T & now $1.4 T over 10 years, which is $80 B, $160 B & now $140 B per year. He wants to raise their tax rates AND limit their deductions. (Their taxes are already being raised in Obamacare.) The budget deficit has been well over $ 1 T for the last 3 years. It was $175 B last month alone

Raising taxes will not solve the “problem,” not even for one month.

There is also the problem that Medicare recipients are receiving 3 times as much in benefits ($300K) that they paid into the program ($100K) & that Social Security payments exceed receipts. These problems will worsen each year. (Both funds were spent.)

There is also the problem with the $16.4 T debt which will be well over $20 T soon. This does not include the $121.9 T in unfunded liabilities or any of the guarantees the fed. govt. has made.

There is also the problem that our debt is over 100% of our GDP & that does not even include the unfunded liabilities nor the guarantees the fed. govt. is liable for. We owe more than we are worth.

The other problem is that the US govt. is buying its own debt. (Google Weimar Republic)

Arguing about who should pay how much in taxes is a waste of time. Class warfare was a politically manufactured technique to divide voters & distract attention away from real solutions to our very real & mounting problems.

Going over the fiscal cliff is nothing compared to what the US will go over in the very near future. (Google Greece.)

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Dusty @ 3:39 pm

When I started reading your post, my first thought was: Another time I can agree with Dusty. That was when I was reading the following:

“The same people saying the same things like it is mudhole playtime every day.”

I just wish the rest of your post was less of the same thing and more to the point. If you are urging your friends to fight, tell us what YOU think they should fight FOR specifically, in this “cliff” fight.

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Dear MarkV,

So glad you liked a few lines, at least.

As what to do about the fiscal cliff? Easy! Don’t commit suicide. What do you suggest?

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Dusty @ 4:36 pm

Dear Dusty, I am afraid your suggestion falls short of“specific.” .

First, I doubt there will be anything approaching a suicide, whether a deal will be made before the end of the year or not. Still, I am in favor of a deal before that.

The President has affirmed his position about what the deal must contain, mainly, the tax rate increase for the highest income earners. He won the election with that as one of his main campaign points, and people of this country agree with him by a margin of 3:1. All the rest appears to be, as they like to say, “on the table.” So if you are asking what I suggest, how about for the Republicans to accept the facts of life?

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Dear MarkV

Americans also voted in the members of Congress. They have offered an agreement with the president AFTER he is specific on what entitlements he is going to cut. The president only has to be specific (the same thing you want me to be) and have it in writing. I believe that is a condition required by most contracts to be legal.The budget is a contract (promise) to be followed, is it not?

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Doing the do

Who is Susan Lucci?

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Bottom line the Republicans have gotten more votes in exactly one Presidential election since 1988.

1

Add to that the changing demographics and the fact that over 60 percent of people under 30 voted for Obama.

Its perfectly reasonable to believe that we wont see another Republican President for a long long time.

Not until the party reforms and realizes the country leans to the left. Just like the founding fathers did.

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Dusty @ 4:58 pm

Can you provide some support for your claim that the members of Congress (I suppose you mean the Republicans) “have offered an agreement with the president?” I have heard some individual members, mostly senators, but nothing more, and certainly not John Boehner. But your demand for the President to be specific about the entitlement he is going to cut is rather pointless. Of course he will have to be specific, but that is what negotiations are about, negotiations inside, not in public..

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in recent poll of wsj/nbc news

repubs unfavorable with white independents by 20 points

and likely to get worse if you follow folks on right on this blog

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One of the myths, also promulgate some time ago by Kyle and not supported by facts, is that “…federal government tax collections as a share of GDP have moved within a narrow band of just under 19% of GDP.” With tax collections at 15.4% of GDP in 2011 and 20.6% in 2000 at the end of the Clinton Presidency, the 2000 tax collection percentage was one third higher than in 2011 – hardly “a narrow band.”

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=205

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TBan 10:31… “get over it” the transparency of the comment is clear, submit to his authority and just do what Obama wants.
HMMM Same attitude when Bush II was appointed by the Court.. just get over it we were told, just do what Bush II wants, such as 2 unfunded wars and a tax cut at the same time? Never been done in American history… Just get over it… indeed TBan indeed.

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MarkV

There are many reports on Google about agreements Republicans have offered to the president. This is from one I have read on TPM, written by Brian Beutler

Boehner has written to the president with an offer suggesting overall change in the tax code. He asked for (1) Increased Medicare eligibility from 65 to 67.

(2) Less generous formula for calculating the cost of living adjustments in Social Security.

The president refuses to negotiate. .

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Obama postponed some interesting regulations until, ahem, after the election.

We now have 2 cliffs: that old fiscal one & the new regulation one.

The Obama adm. has deemed that water is a pollutant & has deployed his baby EPA on those offenders. This is a bipartisan lawsuit. Another article mentions the EPA is employing eminent domain to save some frogs.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/fairfax-va.-sue-epa-over-water-rules/article/2502024#.UMpgSnc_fpK

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Somebody needs to slap Jay Carney upside the head.

blah blah blah….you know….blah blah blah….you know….blah blah blah….you know, you know, you know, you know

Reminds me of Caroline Kennedy.

‘Ya know?

schnirt

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td @ 6:22 pm

td,
A rather comical argument, which you seem to repeat, is that Obama’s tax increase would amount to “only” $149 billion, and therefore, what? It is not worth doing? There will be spending cuts, that what the negotiation is about. If you get some spending cuts, will the effect be the same whether the revenue increase will or will not be part of the deal?

As for the following: “ how are we going to raise the revenue necessary to pay off the debt?”

Anybody asking us to pay off the debt?

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MarkV

December 13th, 2012
6:31 pm

When you are talking about taking 1% of GDP out of the economy and giving it to the government then you are going to slow down any growth we are having and turn us back into a recession.

The whole statement is just to prove that we do not have a revenue problem in this country but rather a spending problem.

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Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!

December 13th, 2012
6:41 pm

There are no spending cuts in Obozo’s plan. He wants to raise taxes and spend 75% of the new revenue, on top of his existing un-American spending level.

You receptacles are so unbelievably stupid for having supported this sociopath.

As long as they are getting their free stuff now then they do not care about the future.

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Why do we paid some much Medicare and get nothing
But we will help all these people who don’t paid taxes are
Medicare payments I’m tired of giving to this country and it doesn’t
Give back were is the loved tell were is the loved for our men and women
Who fight for our freedom I say let some of these child Molesters go and fight in the war
Put them at the front

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td @ 6:39 pm

td,

What you are doing is just repeating the Republican talking points as if they were a fact. I understand it is your opinion, which you are entitled to, but it makes no sense to me.

If you want to argue, like Kyle, that “we have a spending” problem, not a revenue problem, and that taking $ 140 billion will slow down the economy, that explain why cutting spending will NOT slow down economy.

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td:

Still trying to argue with stumps?

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6 trillion more in debt since obama took office—headed for 20 trillion plus by the end of his second term—jimmy carter is his biggest fan since he will go down in history as the worst president ever.
while you’re looking at unemployment numbers take a long look at how many new federal employees have been hired since obama took office—take a look at the 16,000 or so IRS agents that will be required to monitor obamacare. already 18 or so democratic senators are wanting to get their states out from under the portion of obamacare dealing with taxing medical device manufacturers. heck why not let them off the hook too–all his donors, aarp, and cronies have gotten waivers. you do the math. if you honestly buy the fact that george bush caused WWII and the first 4 years of obama-disaster then you have simply shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

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@Linda..”Since WWII, revenue as a percentage of GDP has remained steady at a little less than19 percent. Regardless of tax rates, that’s the amount the feds have been able to collect.”

You do realize that is not true don’t you? The actual range is from under 15 to around 21. In our economy that’s a difference of about a trillion dollars.

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Bluecoat, are you forgetting about the dem wars, Vietnam and Korea ? They were worthless as well and many more Americans died. We still have troops in Korea. Tell the survivors of the dead, crippled and maimed that those wars were worth it.

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JDW@8:03, I think I made it perfectly clear last night that it’s a waste of time for any conservative to argue with any liberal. I cite sites for most of the comments I make. If you disagree with my sites, contact the sites.
You have been openly rude & crude to me (& other conservatives), just because you disagree with me (& us), personally insulting me (& us) with every comment. Your mother would be disappointed with how you treat ladies, assuming you had a mother. If you were an orphan, your foster parents would also be disappointed in you & is no reason to attack anyone with whom you differ.
Again, leave me alone. Go try to spew you propaganda on minions who do not have the common sense or perceptive that almost all conservatives possess.
Conservatives have patience with Democrats, but we have none for progressives such as you, whose intent is to collapse the fed. govt. Progressives are the most evil people in the electorate today & that includes your Messiah Obama.
I will expose you & yours every time you try to engage me. Your best bet is to just leave me alone, same thing I’ve already told you.
May God bless your soul, whatever is left of it.

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@Rafe…Duhbya started the rock rolling down the mountain after Clinton spent 8 years getting it balanced. Obama has been most average which is a gigantic improvement over the worst in our life and likely of all time.

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W didn’t get Himself impeached and He never ran a trillion dollar deficit.

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@Tiberius…”Nice to see both sides (but especially libs like JDW) continue to erroneously rehash history instead of focusing on the present and future.”

Yet you are unable to document any such errors.

Life is a bit-h when not every one bows down to the great and glorious Tiberius…say are those new “clothes” you are wearing?

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JDW

They are garanimals………… A few on this blog can still wear them.

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Kyle said: “But if House Republicans cannot persuade Obama to agree to meaningful entitlement reforms, which along with more rapid economic growth are the only way to bring our fiscal house in order, they should consider giving Obama what he wants.”

What do you mean like meaningful entitlement reforms? Paul Ryan’s Medicare reforms? Or putting Social Security up on Wall Street? Or both?

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There is no sense in posting here again. You are the most closed minded people I’ve ever known!

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Kyle

140 billion taken out of the economy? Does a mosquito bite kill you? The tax hikes the president campaigned on will have minimal effect on the pocketbooks of the 250k and up crowd, so your whole argument is underwater.

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The socialists hate American might and hate energy and hate prosperity. They say it all the time. Can you not hear them? Are you deaf?

So what do you think their goals are?

To make us prosperous?

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For what it’s worth…
If Washington lawmakers fail to reach a deal to avoid the “fiscal cliff,” a majority of Americans will blame Democrats and Republicans equally, according to a new NBC/Wall Street Journal survey.
Fifty-six percent of adults surveyed Dec. 6-9 said Democrats, including President Barack Obama, and Republicans would be equally to blame if no deal is made to avoid the fiscal cliff—the automatic spending cuts and tax increases set to go into effect on Jan. 1. Twenty-four percent said Republicans will be more to blame and 19 percent pointed the finger at Democrats.
Those results differ from the response to a similar question posed one week earlier by The Washington Post and the Pew Research Center that suggested the public is more likely to blame Republicans in Congress for negotiating failures.
The new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll and the Post/Pew poll both showed that Americans still say they trust Obama more than congressional Republicans to reach a deal.

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JDW@9:49, A White House web site? Are you kidding me? I might as well cite Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh.
Go away! Go hold your breath so that you carbon dioxide emissions don’t cause the globe to warm.
Don’t drink your soft drinks so that your carbon dioxide emission don’t cause the planet to warm.

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The People Have Spoken

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The people have spoken. We, the people, have confidence in the Republican majority in the House of Representatives & in the Republican majorities in the states, both in their governorships & in their respective state legislatures. The Republicans won in 2012, just like they dd in 2010! The congressional congress will win in the future.

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Not stumps,pugs in mourning.I know they look about the same.

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bluecoat
December 13th, 2012
6:49 pm

One party tries to do the responsible thing.Fighting 3 usless wars responsible? Tell that to the survivors of the dead,the crippled and maimed.

What are you going to do when terrorists attack you? If you have ba!!s and pride, retaliate. If you’re a spineless lib, sanctions. What kind of sanctions punish a cave dwelling religious fanatic bunch?

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The People Have Spoken……Cons 0 Obama 2

Are you a lib that believes in God? Did God inspire the bible to be written?

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And Linda

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@The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers

December 13th, 2012
10:54 pm
The People Have Spoken……Cons 0 Obama 2

Are you a lib that believes in God? Did God inspire the bible to be written?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Are you a CON that believes he believes in GOD?

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.”

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I think Linda would gag at a gnat,and swallow a camel.just saying

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The People@10:58, You are a work of art if you are trying to defend the most secular president the US has ever had in decades.
I ain’t judging nobody. I’m just observing & my observation of Obama is that he is a heathen.
I’m very familiar with all your Bible verses.
Obama voted 3 times when he was in the Ill. Senate in favor of infanticide. That’s the most vile attribute I can think of, that the aborting mother has more rights than her living botched abortion child. I’m a hypocrite? What about you?
Obama is in favor of gay marriage. Is my Bible different from yours? Where’s that word: abomination?
If you can’t see clearly, remove the speck & then the log. Don’t use either to mask your vision.

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You saying Obama was present to vote 3 times.You don’t put new wine in old skins(bottles)You know adultery was also an abomination.Depending on amt.you tithe of course.Reckon Obama deserves a stoning?

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Republicans are between a rock and a hard place. You could almost feel sorry for them if they had not caused so much damage. Even the slow minded are starting to see that they are obstructing progress. If they really thought that Obama’s plan would hurt the economy, they would have already agreed to it. There’s nothing they want more than to make Obama look bad. They won’t agree to it because they’re afraid it will work which would make them look even worse than they do now.

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More than anything Obama is a PARTY LOYALIST first and the FISCAL future of the USA is way down his list. We need FISCAL conservatives in Congress and in the White House that are USA LOYALISTS – not PARTY LOYALISTS…… “W” and Obama are FISCAL liberals. It took decades of big spending underfunded or unfunded SOCIALIST social programs – mostly introduced by the Dems to get us $16,000,000,000,000 – don’t think it all happened under “W”. – and no more lies about the damage the Repubs caused………… BOTH sides caused the damage – quit lying.

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As far as America is concerned Barry is back smoking weed again. He will be the only happy one when the country goes belly up. He evidently has a plan, a plan that the citizens in the end won’t like.

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Rob Parker, a contributor for ESPN’s “First Take” morning show, questioned Griffin’s standing as a black man, asking whether the quarterback was a “cornball brother,” and later saying that the black quarterback is “not one of us.”

Parker also speculated that the Redskins quarterback might be a Republican, but that Griffin’s braids added to the “authenticity” of being black.

Believe me, RG, you can take that as a compliment.

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Question for the libs:

If the Bush tax cuts were “only for the rich” as Democrats have claimed for a decade, what’s the harm in allowing all of them to expire?

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@Linda…”A White House web site? Are you kidding me?”

Do you understand the term “official audited financial results” or are you so dumbed down you can’t think.

The White House site of OMB is the DEFINIATIVE source for official results and the place the are published regardless of president. All those places that you find that distort the numbers…this is where they start.

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Tiberius:

EVERYTHING coming from the federal government is suspect until 2017!

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@Tiberus…”anything on that site will be suspect until 2017.”

Can you sink any lower into the cesspool of hate? Now you want to question the official US financial results published by the OMB? Sad, sad life you lead.

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The Republican House has voted for a $1.2 Trillion cut and tax increases for everybody that automatically kicks in when we go over the cliff. Wasn’t that the price exacted on Obama and the Democrats to get an increase in the debt ceiling?

Ask me, It looks if the Republicans are about to get what they asked for.

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JDW – 8:24 “can you sink any lower into the cesspool of hate”

Like a rock.

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So why is Obozo so worried about going over the fiscal cliff? He agreed to the spending cuts and tax increases, and in any case, as we all know from ten years of Democrat hectoring, the tax cuts only benefitted the rich.

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cc, you dripping hatred for our government is humorous. Fortunately it was a big component of why you just got crushed (again) at the polls recently. Real Americans don’t dig traitors.

Do yourself, your blood pressure and your fellow countrymen a favor – self deport.

And take you gaggle of Uncle Sam hating geese with you…

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“And take you gaggle of Uncle Sam hating geese with you…”

Speaking of hatred..

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“Even the slow minded are starting to see that they are obstructing progress.”

Nearly half the people in this country and approximately 75% of the people in the county I reside in do not consider what the Democrats are doing to be “progress”, unless you want to put a positive spin on economic suicide.

There is still a deep ideological divide in this country over progressive liberal socialism vs. conservatism. I am not willing to check my values at the door and roll over for the lies and programs emanating from Washington, regardless of which party is the source. Taxes and health care costs are ALREADY going UP on the middle class at a higher rate than we would have had without Obamacare – it has already started (consider the indirect taxes and costs passed on to the public). The false arguments from both sides over Social Security and Medicare continue unabated. Federal borrowing continues to devalue our future unabated from either side. Both parties fight the same foreign wars at roughly the same costs to America, economically and morally. Both parties at the Washington level leverage problems in America and the World for their personal and party benefit, not the public good. Does anyone not in line to gain financially or politically really believe it is beneficial to us the public to have Hillary Clinton or John Kerry as Secretary of State? John McCain as a leader in the Sentate? Why, for goodness sakes?

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curious: That comment is indicative of the problem facing this Nation.
———————

Self-reliance isn’t a “problem facing this Nation”. Lack of it is.

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“Real Americans” pay their bills, JamVet.

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Does Jamvet ever have anything new to say?

The dude cuts and pastes his own comments.

Must have worked long and hard on those few paragraphs, don’t want to waste, huh?

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There is a reason that the House of Representatives and the State Capitals are ate up with Repugs, it’s where spending originates and the voters chose to have adults in charge of it.

You lost, punk democrats, get over it. Grow up. Learn to balance a checkbook like the American people want you to.

morons.

(Is that how it should go, jamvet?)

Copyright infringement, no?

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