Obama’s asking for it; maybe the GOP should give it to him
It appears more and more likely that Washington’s new favorite drama, the fiscal cliff, will run as long as possible.
Passing new legislation before Christmas to avoid the cliff — the doomsday nickname given to the combination of across-the-board spending cuts set during last year’s debt-ceiling negotiations and the total expiration of income-tax rates that have prevailed since since 2003 — now seems unlikely. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor on Wednesday said lawmakers can expect to be in Washington during December’s final days.
The fatal conceit in this debate is that the economy will somehow be well-served, or at least survive, if it takes only a half-dose of what Democrats consider poison (spending cuts) and a half-dose of what the GOP deems deadly (tax increases).
If either party is correct, we are in for a rough 2013 at the very least. If both parties are correct, we could be heading for another recession. The irony is that we’re trying to avoid the fiscal cliff in order to prevent … a recession.
Only President Obama has proposed a pure version of his preferred course: A $1.6 trillion tax hike on upper-income earners over the next 10 years, recently reduced to $1.4 trillion, with no guarantee of net spending cuts. The House GOP’s opening salvo had much more of the “balance” Obama insists on.
Many observers have dismissed the president’s proposal as a mere negotiating stance. Perhaps they’re right. But one presumes he wouldn’t have made a proposal he wasn’t ready to accept.
That is, one presumes Obama really believes taking an extra $140 billion out of the economy each of the next 10 years — remember, he says the money is for deficit reduction, not to fund new government spending — would not be harmful to businesses, workers or the unemployed.
Members of Congress are supposed to do what they believe to be in the best interests of the country and their constituents. But if House Republicans cannot persuade Obama to agree to meaningful entitlement reforms, which along with more rapid economic growth are the only way to bring our fiscal house in order, they should consider giving Obama what he wants.
This is not a decision to be taken lightly. But Republicans might not win this policy argument in the long run if Obama can pin the blame for economic damage on GOP spending cuts, while continuing to demagogue the rich for not paying their “fair share,” without consequences.
And there would be consequences for following his plan. Today, $140 billion equals almost 1 percent of gross domestic product. When the economy is struggling to grow by an annual rate of even 2.5 percent, taking another 1 percent of GDP out of the private sector will not help matters.
But what about the 1990s? Didn’t Bill Clinton raise taxes back then, only to watch the economy boom?
Yes, but there are major differences between then and now. Clinton raised taxes as both the U.S. and world economies were stronger than now. He did it when state taxes were broadly lower than they are now. He did it when oil was closer to $20 a barrel than $90 a barrel. He did it before a record housing boom, not after its bust. He did it at the onset of the IT boom, which doesn’t figure to be replicated anytime soon. And before revenues really grew, he cut the capital-gains tax rate, rather than raising it as Obama desires.
Worse, Obama wants to get most of this $140 billion in part by raising marginal tax rates on “the rich” whether their earnings come from their labor or their investments. This has a significant impact on decision-making. For just one current example, look at the growing number of companies paying their anticipated dividends for 2013 out to shareholders now to beat a potential tax hike.
Some of these companies, Costco for example, are even borrowing money to pull off this switcheroo — committing themselves to pay back billions they only hope to earn as profits in the future. Talk about distorting economic behavior.
Obama says the people voted for these higher taxes. While I believe Obama’s proposal would be very harmful economically, congressional Republicans might find themselves with little choice but to allow his policies to prove him wrong in practice. Obama could hardly blame them for letting him entangle himself with the rope he’s demanding.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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504 comments Add your comment
td
December 13th, 2012
6:46 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 13th, 2012
6:41 pm
There are no spending cuts in Obozo’s plan. He wants to raise taxes and spend 75% of the new revenue, on top of his existing un-American spending level.
You receptacles are so unbelievably stupid for having supported this sociopath.
As long as they are getting their free stuff now then they do not care about the future.
bluecoat
December 13th, 2012
6:49 pm
One party tries to do the responsible thing.Fighting 3 usless wars responsible? Tell that to the survivors of the dead,the crippled and maimed.
Hopeful
December 13th, 2012
6:50 pm
Why do we paid some much Medicare and get nothing
But we will help all these people who don’t paid taxes are
Medicare payments I’m tired of giving to this country and it doesn’t
Give back were is the loved tell were is the loved for our men and women
Who fight for our freedom I say let some of these child Molesters go and fight in the war
Put them at the front
bluecoat
December 13th, 2012
6:52 pm
useless
MarkV
December 13th, 2012
6:54 pm
td @ 6:39 pm
td,
What you are doing is just repeating the Republican talking points as if they were a fact. I understand it is your opinion, which you are entitled to, but it makes no sense to me.
If you want to argue, like Kyle, that “we have a spending” problem, not a revenue problem, and that taking $ 140 billion will slow down the economy, that explain why cutting spending will NOT slow down economy.
CC
December 13th, 2012
6:54 pm
“That’s because I’m informed and completely disagree with all “conservative” policies.”
This is a ludicrous statement. One can’t possibly be “informed and completely disagree with all “conservative” policies.”
Look at the truth. Bush got us into this and the “Wingnuts” blame it on Obama. Who’s stupid?
Did you ever hear the names Barny Frank and Christopher Dodd? Do you know what positions they held in the House and the Senate when President Bush attempted time and again to get Congress to reevaluate the sub-prime lending to unqualified borrowers by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? Do you think that they collapse of the housing industry, housing market and the subsequent bad loans made and guaranteed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac might POSSIBLY have something to do with the current financial situation?
This is one, and I’ve got more . . . if your comprehension is good enough.
CC
December 13th, 2012
6:55 pm
td:
Still trying to argue with stumps?
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 13th, 2012
7:34 pm
JDW
You were talking about how wonderful PAYGO was and how Bush ended it. Then, you send me a link on Bush’s tax cuts and his use of budget rules to get around the 60 votes. I knew that, Obama did the same with his porkulus bill.
FYI, PAYGO expired in 2002, it started under GHWB. Pelosi and Reid reinstated PAYGO in 2006, but it is no longer a law and only a Senate and House rule, which can be overruled by a vote of that chamber. Bush did not do any of his spending without congressional approval, as I stated.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/budget-process/paygo.cfm
the red herring
December 13th, 2012
7:42 pm
6 trillion more in debt since obama took office—headed for 20 trillion plus by the end of his second term—jimmy carter is his biggest fan since he will go down in history as the worst president ever.
while you’re looking at unemployment numbers take a long look at how many new federal employees have been hired since obama took office—take a look at the 16,000 or so IRS agents that will be required to monitor obamacare. already 18 or so democratic senators are wanting to get their states out from under the portion of obamacare dealing with taxing medical device manufacturers. heck why not let them off the hook too–all his donors, aarp, and cronies have gotten waivers. you do the math. if you honestly buy the fact that george bush caused WWII and the first 4 years of obama-disaster then you have simply shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
Hopeful
December 13th, 2012
7:42 pm
Td do you think Clark Howard could get us budget good???
JDW
December 13th, 2012
8:03 pm
@Linda..”Since WWII, revenue as a percentage of GDP has remained steady at a little less than19 percent. Regardless of tax rates, that’s the amount the feds have been able to collect.”
You do realize that is not true don’t you? The actual range is from under 15 to around 21. In our economy that’s a difference of about a trillion dollars.
JDW
December 13th, 2012
8:07 pm
@Rafe…”PAYGO expired in 2002, ”
Yep, because the president at the time announced from the time of his election that he did not support a renewal. His predecessor had strengthened the rule early in his term..who were those guys again?.
Bob
December 13th, 2012
8:20 pm
Bluecoat, are you forgetting about the dem wars, Vietnam and Korea ? They were worthless as well and many more Americans died. We still have troops in Korea. Tell the survivors of the dead, crippled and maimed that those wars were worth it.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
December 13th, 2012
8:28 pm
Nice to see both sides (but especially libs like JDW) continue to erroneously rehash history instead of focusing on the present and future.
A particularly stunning waste of electrons.
Linda`
December 13th, 2012
8:35 pm
JDW@8:03, I think I made it perfectly clear last night that it’s a waste of time for any conservative to argue with any liberal. I cite sites for most of the comments I make. If you disagree with my sites, contact the sites.
You have been openly rude & crude to me (& other conservatives), just because you disagree with me (& us), personally insulting me (& us) with every comment. Your mother would be disappointed with how you treat ladies, assuming you had a mother. If you were an orphan, your foster parents would also be disappointed in you & is no reason to attack anyone with whom you differ.
Again, leave me alone. Go try to spew you propaganda on minions who do not have the common sense or perceptive that almost all conservatives possess.
Conservatives have patience with Democrats, but we have none for progressives such as you, whose intent is to collapse the fed. govt. Progressives are the most evil people in the electorate today & that includes your Messiah Obama.
I will expose you & yours every time you try to engage me. Your best bet is to just leave me alone, same thing I’ve already told you.
May God bless your soul, whatever is left of it.
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 13th, 2012
8:38 pm
JDW
Yes, the big spender Bush did not support PAYGO. When Barry extended the tax cuts he, Reid and Boehner also ignored PAYGO as he did with his stimulus. Two wrongs do not make a right. Neither were/are good stewards of the people’s money.
That is why both, will join Jimmy Carter at the bottom of the rankings when Presidents are listed.
JDW
December 13th, 2012
8:52 pm
@Rafe…Duhbya started the rock rolling down the mountain after Clinton spent 8 years getting it balanced. Obama has been most average which is a gigantic improvement over the worst in our life and likely of all time.
JDW
December 13th, 2012
8:55 pm
@Linda..”I think I made it perfectly clear last night that it’s a waste of time for any conservative to argue with any liberal”
I am not arguing with you…merely pointing out that you, as usual, are factually incorrect. Should you choose to continue with such distortions of the truth I shall point them out.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 13th, 2012
8:55 pm
W didn’t get Himself impeached and He never ran a trillion dollar deficit.
Doing the do
December 13th, 2012
8:57 pm
CC
December 13th, 2012
6:55 pm
td:
Still trying to argue with stumps?
________________________________________
Then both of you should try to stop talking to yourself as you look in the mirror.
That would be a good start. Let me know how it works out for both of you.
JDW
December 13th, 2012
8:59 pm
@Tiberius…”Nice to see both sides (but especially libs like JDW) continue to erroneously rehash history instead of focusing on the present and future.”
Yet you are unable to document any such errors.
Life is a bit-h when not every one bows down to the great and glorious Tiberius…say are those new “clothes” you are wearing?
clem
December 13th, 2012
9:05 pm
facts are a pesky problem for some folks:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/13/high-end-tax-hikes-crs-report_n_2295737.html
Glenn Beck
December 13th, 2012
9:10 pm
JDW
They are garanimals………… A few on this blog can still wear them.
Ray
December 13th, 2012
9:12 pm
401(k) holders continue to invest every payday, knowing they will get hosed when it comes to their final tax rates when 100% of their distributions will eventually be taxed as ordinary income (just like salaries are).
I say “Boohoo” to those who managed to save above and beyond their IRA and 401K annual limits, and now may have to have to pay taxes like most commoners who only invest through 401(k)s.
The middle class can’t ever seem to get cut a break, when it comes to undue influence with our US Senators and Representatives. I don’t hear anyone fighting for fairness when it comes to taxing dividends.
So, let’s go with the Ryan plan and make dividends tax free, for those mostly in the top 1-2% and had extra cash to deposit in saving plans here in America, or the less patriotic in the Caymans, right, and continue to make the working stiffs, who only manage to save money through payroll deductions, have their dividends taxed as the highest tax classification: “ordinary income?
Where are the occupiers when we really need them? Now is the time to speak up.
Archibald Leach
December 13th, 2012
9:15 pm
Kyle said: “But if House Republicans cannot persuade Obama to agree to meaningful entitlement reforms, which along with more rapid economic growth are the only way to bring our fiscal house in order, they should consider giving Obama what he wants.”
What do you mean like meaningful entitlement reforms? Paul Ryan’s Medicare reforms? Or putting Social Security up on Wall Street? Or both?
Pizzaman
December 13th, 2012
9:16 pm
Lil @ 8:55 if there was ever a more impeachable than Jr name him.
Bob @ 5;39. Your too influenced by Boortz, Fox and the gang. Look up the definition of “Ponzi” and get back to me. I’ve been on SS for almost 7 yrs (I went at 62 because Jr ’scared me with the “privatization” crap). If I live till I’m 75 I’ll get all my money back. “Ponzi” by def means you loose it all. BTW there is still a trust fund, with money in it.
That’s the problem with all the “believers” here. Rush, Sean, Neil, etc. are entertainers and have no f…… idea what’s going on and if you believe any of it neither do you. Why did Willard loose? He and you were wrong! Grow up and admit it. Stop being the problem and be part of the solution. It’s your country also.
Pizzaman
December 13th, 2012
9:21 pm
There is no sense in posting here again. You are the most closed minded people I’ve ever known!
clem
December 13th, 2012
9:24 pm
i’m with you pizzaman. they are wrong and know it but refuse to change.
Sailfish
December 13th, 2012
9:25 pm
Kyle
140 billion taken out of the economy? Does a mosquito bite kill you? The tax hikes the president campaigned on will have minimal effect on the pocketbooks of the 250k and up crowd, so your whole argument is underwater.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 13th, 2012
9:26 pm
Closed minded?
In the midst of the most wrecked economy since jimmy karter?
You’ve got to be kidding me.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 13th, 2012
9:29 pm
The socialists hate American might and hate energy and hate prosperity. They say it all the time. Can you not hear them? Are you deaf?
So what do you think their goals are?
To make us prosperous?
Linda`
December 13th, 2012
9:36 pm
JDW@8:55, Is it me who is factually incorrect or my site which is factually incorrect? Again, if my site I cited is factually incorrect, argue with my site, not me. You certainly ARE arguing with me as being factually incorrect & further insulting me & trying to intimidate me. None of your techniques are working, but are rather making you look like a wet sponge. If I am in any way trying to distort the truth, maybe you can cite a neutral site that proves your point.
Liberal Pariah
December 13th, 2012
9:48 pm
For what it’s worth…
If Washington lawmakers fail to reach a deal to avoid the “fiscal cliff,” a majority of Americans will blame Democrats and Republicans equally, according to a new NBC/Wall Street Journal survey.
Fifty-six percent of adults surveyed Dec. 6-9 said Democrats, including President Barack Obama, and Republicans would be equally to blame if no deal is made to avoid the fiscal cliff—the automatic spending cuts and tax increases set to go into effect on Jan. 1. Twenty-four percent said Republicans will be more to blame and 19 percent pointed the finger at Democrats.
Those results differ from the response to a similar question posed one week earlier by The Washington Post and the Pew Research Center that suggested the public is more likely to blame Republicans in Congress for negotiating failures.
The new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll and the Post/Pew poll both showed that Americans still say they trust Obama more than congressional Republicans to reach a deal.
JDW
December 13th, 2012
9:49 pm
@linda…”maybe you can cite a neutral site that proves your point.”
As always with numbers the source is best…
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals
Linda`
December 13th, 2012
9:59 pm
JDW@9:49, A White House web site? Are you kidding me? I might as well cite Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh.
Go away! Go hold your breath so that you carbon dioxide emissions don’t cause the globe to warm.
Don’t drink your soft drinks so that your carbon dioxide emission don’t cause the planet to warm.
Dusty
December 13th, 2012
10:12 pm
Well, whoopee, nobody here will “negotiate” with anyone else juist like congress and the presidency. And just like the C & P, the race seems to be who can get to the fiscal cliff first and take THE LEAP!!.
“Oh what fools ye mortals be when first ye leap and then decree!”
Get the Christmas spirit, folks. You just can’t sing Jingle Bells or Silent Night without feeling a little better. I just enjoyed the “bestest” concert ever. I wish you were there. Works wonders.
G’nite and pleasant dreams of comfort and joy.
The People Have Spoken
December 13th, 2012
10:17 pm
The People Have Spoken
The People Have Spoken......Cons 0 Obama 2
December 13th, 2012
10:32 pm
@Linda`
December 13th, 2012
8:35 pm
Progressives are the most evil people in the electorate today & that includes your Messiah Obama.
I will expose you & yours every time you try to engage me. Your best bet is to just leave me alone, same thing I’ve already told you.
May God bless your soul, whatever is left of it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
How DARE you speak the name of God.
From YOUR mouth to GOD’S ear and he AIN’T listen to a
HYPOCRITE like you.
That is why you CONS lost the election.
That is why you CONS will lose the next elections.
GOD hates a HYPOCRITE like YOU.
Linda`
December 13th, 2012
10:35 pm
The people have spoken. We, the people, have confidence in the Republican majority in the House of Representatives & in the Republican majorities in the states, both in their governorships & in their respective state legislatures. The Republicans won in 2012, just like they dd in 2010! The congressional congress will win in the future.
Sailfish
December 13th, 2012
10:37 pm
Yes, hark the herald angels sing, god rest ye merry gentlemen…
bluecoat
December 13th, 2012
10:43 pm
Not stumps,pugs in mourning.I know they look about the same.
Linda`
December 13th, 2012
10:45 pm
The People@10:32, I speak the name of God all the time, every time I pray. God has always listened to me, because all I ask for is forgiveness, for you as well as me.
It’s the Democrats whose platform has become entirely secular. Obama is a heathen.
The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
December 13th, 2012
10:52 pm
bluecoat
December 13th, 2012
6:49 pm
One party tries to do the responsible thing.Fighting 3 usless wars responsible? Tell that to the survivors of the dead,the crippled and maimed.
What are you going to do when terrorists attack you? If you have ba!!s and pride, retaliate. If you’re a spineless lib, sanctions. What kind of sanctions punish a cave dwelling religious fanatic bunch?
getalife
December 13th, 2012
10:52 pm
Good to see Dusty happy for a change.
The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
December 13th, 2012
10:54 pm
The People Have Spoken……Cons 0 Obama 2
Are you a lib that believes in God? Did God inspire the bible to be written?
The People Have Spoken......Cons 0 Obama 2
December 13th, 2012
10:58 pm
@Linda`
December 13th, 2012
10:45 pm
The People@10:32, I speak the name of God all the time, every time I pray. God has always listened to me, because all I ask for is forgiveness, for you as well as me.
It’s the Democrats whose platform has become entirely secular. Obama is a heathen.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Obama a HEATHEN?
…
Matthew 7:1-5
“JUDGE not, that you be not judged.
For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?
LINDA YOU HYPOCRITE, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
Glenn Beck
December 13th, 2012
10:58 pm
And Linda
The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
December 13th, 2012
10:58 pm
Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 13th, 2012
9:26 pm
Closed minded?
In the midst of the most wrecked economy since jimmy karter?
You’ve got to be kidding me.
LinkReport this comment
Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 13th, 2012
9:29 pm
The socialists hate American might and hate energy and hate prosperity. They say it all the time. Can you not hear them? Are you deaf?
So what do you think their goals are?
To make us prosperous?
A-Sap, by chance you weren’t educated in Fulton county? Your grammar is on par with most 5th graders in Cobb county….
The People Have Spoken......Cons 0 Obama 2
December 13th, 2012
11:09 pm
@The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers
December 13th, 2012
10:54 pm
The People Have Spoken……Cons 0 Obama 2
Are you a lib that believes in God? Did God inspire the bible to be written?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Are you a CON that believes he believes in GOD?
“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.”
bluecoat
December 13th, 2012
11:12 pm
Iraq nor Afganistan attacked us.Pappa Bush caused Saddam to attack Kuwait,then jumped all over him.All to take attention away from the failed S&L.Then baby Bush done same with the WMD lies.Remember we backed saddam against Iran.
Search/google April Glaspie