Will wonders never cease: Democrats discover taxes hurt businesses!

I hope it fails to get single payer.

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So Kyle is it really about the taxes or the influence via lobbying and contributions from the medical device industry and lobby?

Not saying that to be snarky because I believe there are those in the House and Senate from both parties who talk a big game until they check those contributions and potential bad PR that could come forth.

What is said and done on the surface isn’t always what is really going on behind the scenes for either party or indivdual member of Congress?

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Probably safe to assume those fifteen Dem senators have heard from their medical device manufacturer constituents and are having visions of some serious campaign contribution $ falloff.

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Once again total nonsense. No surprise. This guy actually voted for Newt “Moonbase” Gingrich

The House will soon consider legislation to repeal the excise tax on medical devices that was enacted to help pay for health reform. The provision is sound, however, and the industry lobbying campaign aimed at repealing it is based on misinformation and exaggeration.

The medical device industry is not being singled out. The excise tax is one of several new levies on sectors that will gain business due to health reform. The expansion of health coverage will increase the demand for medical devices and could offset the effect of the tax.
The tax will not cause manufacturers to shift production overseas. The tax applies equally to imported and domestically produced devices, and devices produced in the United States for export are tax-exempt.
The tax will have little effect on innovation in the medical device industry. To the contrary, health reform may well spur medical device innovation by promoting more cost-effective ways of delivering care.

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What do you expect, there are going to be so many unintended consequences to ObamaCare and the layers of the onion are just now being peeled away.

Every other advanced country in the world has universal healthcare.

They all spend far less and get better results.

Coincidence. I doubt it.

In 20 years people in this country will be glad Obamacare is the law of the land.

Us progressives have to pull you knuckle draggers along on issues sometimes. Its always been that way.

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Cheesy Grits is gone but not forgotten

Blow it out your a$$ progressive, go live in Europe if you like it that much. Keep drinking your LibbiAide

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I would not go that far…just had to be said..

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If obozocare is sooooo gooood, cheesy, why did Congress exempt itself from it?

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Yeah , Thats the same industry that had pushed for a whole wing at Grady for illegals & other uninsureds . Millions & millions of dollars of machines we taxpayers bought and guess what ……..we get to pay for people with no insurance using them .

This industry has mastered burning the candle at each end & is one of the reasons our healthcare is so expensive .

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Obamacare was never about passing a good bill, it was about getting a bill on the books while the dems had the numbers knowing it would be as difficult to get it off the books as it was getting it on in the first place. Hence using reconciliation to ram the fixes through.

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I love it when Kyle gets sarcastic. But have patience with the slow learners,Kyle. Democrats can’t help it.

Look at the last four years. They learned nothing.and are still rejoicing over their re-election of the worst president we have had since Jimmy Carter. The facts are ignored that we are going;broke, losing our independence and in a quandry over healthcare, taxes, budgets. continued warfare and the lack of austerity in government . They sail along happily while the ship of state sinks.

BUT –it finally hits home when a few Dem senators realize that the business of THEIR STATE is being hurt by HIGHER TAXATION..

Well, alleluia! The light begins to dawn!!!.

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I can’t help but wonder how many future blowouts will occur in the dem’s sausage.

Weak links?

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I see Michigan has passed tough Anti Union laws.

I mean how dare people organize and fight for better wages and or benefits

That isn’t America.

They should take whatever pay their corporate paymasters give them and shut up about it.

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Cheesy: how dare people organize and fight for better wages and or benefits
———————-

There is no prohibition against that in the bill that was passed.

Don’t let facts get in the way of your poutrage though.

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Kyle is to the right of Jim Wooten and that’s saying a lot. All he needs is I Report and Lil Barry to chime in and he’ll have his entire moonbat get along gang here. You all lost, get over it.

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Kyle, is this like when Republicans discover that the government DOES create jobs, and government spending DOES help the economy a la Keynes, once they learn of potential defense spending cuts in their districts? Is that not also one of those unceasing wonders?

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“Kyle, is this like when Republicans discover that the government DOES create jobs”

You mean like this?:

“In the 1,420 days since he took the oath of office, the federal government has daily hired on average 101 new employees. Every day. Seven days a week. All 202 weeks. That makes 143,000 more federal workers than when Obama talked forever on that cold day in January of 2009.”

http://news.investors.com/politics-andrew-malcolm/121012-636426-americans-figure-out-public-employees-have-it-better-than-private-workers.htm#

I wonder where the gov’t gets the money to pay them all….

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And the Libs wonder why the Republicans don’t trust him:

75 Percent of Obama’s Proposed Tax Hikes to Go Toward New Spending

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/75-percent-obamas-proposed-tax-hikes-go-toward-new-spending_666067.html

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In Michigan you’re free to join a union or not.

Individual freedom…it’s a good thing.

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The “tax” applies equally to a business and it’s competitors, so there’s no impact on domestic free-market competition. The tax is a hindrance to American competition in the world market, but do we really want to compete for cheap labor with Bangladesh and Pakistan?

Like the proverbial person who “knows the price of everything but the value of nothing”, Kyle neglects to mention that the tax provides medical benefits for the employees of US small businesses.

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Dems are slow, cons are in free fall.

Americans voted against free fall.

Again…

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Poor ol’ JDW Democrat,

He still doesn’t get it. HIgher taxes oppress business, lower profit, have less to give to the government and the economy. Somehow that isn’t helpful!!

Did anyone notice we have a deficit? Yep, lotsa people and none of them are Democrats They also never heard of austerity in hard times. Their solution? Take more money from the moneymakers so nobody has anything. Democrats are so demoratic. We can all be

.

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POOR!

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Aesop’s Fables and other Lib Economic Theories

December 11th, 2012
5:48 pm
Try to stay on course, saywhat?, profits are evil, corporations aren’t people, blah, blah, blah.

What’d you do, turn off pmsnbc?
——————————————
In other words, you made it up. As usual.

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Top 10 Things to Say to an Obama Voter Who Just Got Laid Off

1. “Hey, at least that successful Mormon businessman didn’t win.”

2. “Didn’t your lady parts warn you this would happen?”

3. “Look at the Bright Side, Gay marriage passed in four states.”

4. “Hey, Big Bird still has a job. Isn’t that the important thing?”

5. “I am sure Obama cares deeply about your situation. Maybe he’ll send you a postcard from Hawaii.”

6. “Well, look at the bright side, Rush Limbaugh is getting a massive tax increase.”

7. “Hey! Now you’ll have more time to play with your unicorn.”

8. “Isn’t it worth losing your job to know that religious organizations now have to pay for abortions and contraceptives?”

9. “Well, now you and Keith Olbermann have something else in common.”

10. “Forward!”

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Why don’t they just suck it up and pay them? :rolleyes:

Rich Gain as Companies Seek to Beat Obama Tax Increases

“More than 150 companies, from Costco Wholesale Corp. to Las Vegas Sands Corp. (LVS), have declared special dividends totaling about $20 billion this quarter to avoid anticipated tax increases in 2013, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Others, including law and private-equity firms, probably will pay bonuses, partnership distributions and commissions early for tax reasons, according to Lou Crandall, chief economist at Wrightson ICAP LLC in Jersey City, New Jersey.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-10/rich-gain-as-companies-seek-to-beat-obama-tax-increases.html

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Wonders upon wonders.

Court strikes down Illinois concealed carry ban

Gun rights advocates were thrilled by the decision. They have long argued that the prohibition violates the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment and what they see as Americans’ right to carry guns for self-defense.

“Christmas came early for law-abiding gun owners,” said state Rep. Brandon Phelps, a Democratic lawmaker from southern Illinois whose proposed legislation approving concealed carry narrowly lost in the Legislature last year. “It’s a mandate.”

It’s a mandate?

Too funny.

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Ah yes, those tolerant libs. Maybe they should move to Colorado for some legal pot:

Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2515629#.UMe804PBeE-

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But hey, I guess they like their part time temp jobs
——————————————————-
Far more than their full time nonexistent jobs under Bush, Im sure they do.

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Gotta get all those evil rich people:

526,421 family farms threatened by new death tax

“New legislation that jumps the death tax to 55 percent of estates exceeding $1 million threatens 526,421 family farms, of about 25 percent of all farms in America, according to a Senate analysis”

http://washingtonexaminer.com/632281-family-farms-threatened-by-new-death-tax/article/2515658#.UMe9foPBeE9

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AmVet:

Me in free fall? Not at all.

One thing’s for sure….you wouldn’t have far to fall.

You’ve been occupying the same toadstool for ‘lo these many years.

You’re like a fungus.

schnirt

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“I mean how dare people organize and fight for better wages and or benefits

That isn’t America.

They should take whatever pay their corporate paymasters give them and shut up about it.”

So the alternative is to shut up and do as the union masters say….too funny.

I thought the left was all about pro-choice? I guess that excludes unions huh?

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Less Government = Less Taxes

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“but access to health care insurance is serious matter, life saving for many, many Americans”

except for those 30 million or so who will still not have insurance. or those of us who will be dumped onto the gov’t plan because our employers will choose to pay the penalty instead (or worse lose our job because of the new taxes/regulations). or all of those who will be exempt from the mandate.

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except for those 30 million or so who will still not have insurance. or those of us who will be dumped onto the gov’t plan because our employers will choose to pay the penalty instead (or worse lose our job because of the new taxes/regulations). or all of those who will be exempt from the mandate.

See md’s 6:21. Libs claim to be all about “alternatives” and “pro-choice”, yet in the end they’re not. Which is why they still struggle with the concept of “unintended consequences”.

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@Ray “but access to health care insurance is serious matter, life saving for many, many Americans.”
Really Ray, health insurance saves lives ? Why do many people with health insurance die ? I think access to healthcare saves more lives than having health insurance. Illegals that do not have health insurance are receiving transplants in America because even the poor illegals have access to healthcare.

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It would be interesting to hear the rationale of the employers, who will let the employees “be dumped onto the gov’t plan” because the “employers will choose to pay the penalty instead.”

Their message to the employees must go something like this:

Dear employees: You have had as a benefit for the employees of this company a health insurance plan, to which we contributed, as part your compensation, a major part of the premium. But since we will have to pay a penalty if we drop this benefit, we will indeed cut your compensation and rather pay that penalty.

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MarkV @ 6:50:

I see pointing the blame at the employers instead of the gov’t for imposing more strict and expensive regulations/taxes has started.

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Cheesy….no one will be glad when we sink to the low of most European countries cause we are broke and can no longer pay for anything…look at Greece, Spain…

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Stephenson Billings @ 6:59 pm

I see a failure to respond in a rational way.

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“Really, the one thing that actually works, state run communism may not be your cup of tea, but their government works.””

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/head-of-obamas-jobs-council-state-run-communism-actually-works/

Someone needs to talk with Mr Immelt. Of course it works, they pay the people $1.50 an hour……….

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Libs should be ecstatic, Michigan has gone Pro Choice. Dems are Pro Choice, right?

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Libs should be ecstatic, Michigan has gone Pro Choice. Dems are Pro Choice, right?

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How did Adolph Hitler rise to totalitarian power in Germany but by using Socialism and worker unions?

By the way, what is the acronym for National Democratic Socialists Worker’s Party?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

Sieg Heil brucie!

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Obviously this must have been reviewed by the courts, but how did we ever arrive in a situation where, in some states, a worker has no choice about whether union dues are withheld from his paycheck? Definitely anti American, bordering on legalized slavery.

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AmVet:

In 1933 Adolph Hitler ended collective bargaining and any other rights that unions usually called for and drastically lowered wages in Germany.

Only after he delivered this in a 1927 speech:

“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”

It’s a progressive thing, don’tcha know.

schnirt

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No one is calling for the end of collective bargaining..

And then right on cue Michael H. Fascist and Ms. Goebbels pipe in.

Good work Rip van Republican.

As long as you thugs keep losing three out of every four national elections, it’s all good by me…

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AmVet comes off as simple when called upon. I’ve always given her more credit than she deserves.

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the blaze

Isn’t that my website?

hahahahahahahaha

Mr black helicopter conspiracy himself…….

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Stephenson Billings: I wonder where the gov’t gets the money to pay them all….
—————

Just think of the teachers that could be hired, the health care that could be provided, the interest that could be reduced on student loans, the help we could provide to the disabled, and the hand up we could give the least fortunate among us if that money wasn’t being spent on federal employees.

Obozo: Hiring bureaucrats on the backs of the poor.

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“paid down the national debt”
———————

And you wonder why you have zero credibility here?

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Wonder when the libs will finally discover that taking 80% of every persons money, who makes over the magical 200k, won’t begin to cover this level of spending, now or ever !

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md

Before I go, how did that Allen West deal work out for you?

Remember how it was just odd to you and something was fishy? So how did that work out? Did the Republican Governor have the need or feel the need to step in?

thought so……… pout on

adios

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Credibility just giving you some of your own.

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@ stephenson Billings ==> Ignoramous…

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What’s bad for businesses is not having customers. Businesses will hire when they have customers, not when they get a tax cut. Tax cuts don’t produce jobs. Look around you. Have the Bush tax cuts produced the jobs it promised?
About Obamacare, the bill would have been better, much better, if Republicans had gone along with a single payer plan. It would have been much better if there had been a public option. It would be good for businesses to take the employment equation completely out of healthcare. But Republicans would back off of their own healthcare ideas if they were embraced by Democrats and Obama. So we got a lesser plan than we could have had because of Republicans.

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Obama is running circles around Boehner with outrageous falsehoods, and Boehner cannot raise a peep to challenge him. Boehner has managed to allow Obama to turn the Bush middle class tax cuts, passed by a Republican majority Congress over 10 years ago, into the Obama middle class tax cuts, supposedly opposed by the House majority Republicans.

This so rightly called “lamestream” media fawningly covers all the dishonest, Calculated Deception that Obama proclaims over and over. But it will not cover what Boehner has to say in response.

My update is a lot more interesting than 12:10 is.

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Lynnie Gal: About Obamacare, the bill would have been better, much better, if Republicans had gone along with a single payer plan
——————-

Why were Republicans needed to pass single payer? Obozocare didn’t get a single Republican vote, and passed anyway.

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Government is like the person who gets in front of a parade and pretends to lead it. – Stossel

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Lynnie Gal:

“About Obamacare, the bill would have been better, much better, if Republicans had gone along with a single payer plan. It would have been much better if there had been a public option. It would be good for businesses to take the employment equation completely out of healthcare. But Republicans would back off of their own healthcare ideas if they were embraced by Democrats and Obama. So we got a lesser plan than we could have had because of Republicans.”

Where were you when the bill that had to “be passed before the Congress could find out what was in the bill” passed? How did the Republicans in either the House or the Senate impact or change any part of the proposed legislation? I would suggest to you that Democrats held the necessary voting majorities in both Houses and didn’t give a damn what the Republicans thought or how they voted. THERE WAS NO COMPROMISE ON THIS DEMOCRATIC CONTROLLING POWER GRAB CALLED OBAMACARE.

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This is one example of a recursive system that happens when you have government involvement and a non-competitive market. Normally, increasing the cost of a product would lead to less of that product being used. However, health care, especially under Obamacare, is not a competitive market because the people paying for the services used are not the customer. The insurance companies will be forced to charge more to cover this additional cost. They will not be able to deny marginal cases access to the products, or face the government wrath, so they will either pass along costs or eat them until it is no longer profitable to be a health insurer. The portion of devices used covered by a government program will be covered in part by the additional tax, but certainly not all of it. What it really was intended to do was hit higher income people who tend to use more of the medical device industry. All it really accomplishes is to push medical care even further from market efficiency even though the whole industry is so far away from that now that it is hard to discern how much further away it can move.

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“Kyle – Your blog is pitiful. Just pitiful. I may need to stop reading it totally.”

Why wait for New Year’s resolutions? Begin not reading or posting here immediately!

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@Stevenson Billings…”“In the 1,420 days since he took the oath of office, the federal government has daily hired on average 101 new employees. Every day. Seven days a week. All 202 weeks. That makes 143,000 more federal workers than when Obama talked forever on that cold day in January of 2009.””

WOW what a stat…it really shows your grasp of history…not!

For example did you know that in the 2920 LONG LONG days that Duhbya was in charge the federal government added 302,000 employees…why that works out to about 104 employees per DAY EVERY DAY…hummmmm employment is down under Obama.

Must be abnormal for Repugnicans right…ummmmm…no…under “St. Ronnie” the federal government added 310,000 employees…why that works out to about 106 employees per DAY EVERY DAY…hummmmm I see a trend.

Lets check Clinton…from 1992 to 2000 the federal government ELIMINATED 629,000 employees…why that works out to about 215 employees CUT per DAY EVERY DAY…hummmmm I see a trend.

I believe we have it…want smaller govenment…elect Democrats!

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The Strongest Economy in a Generation — If You’re a Government Worker

This article appeared on cato.org on November 25, 1996.

When Bill Clinton declared that 10.7 million new jobs have been created during his presidency, what he didn’t say is that a bundle of those jobs were created with your tax dollars. It turns out that under Clintonomics, the third fastest area of employment (behind the service and construction sector) is government.

Nearly 800,000 new government jobs have been added since January, 1993. Take out the decline in Pentagon employment and there are now nearly 1 million more non-defense government jobs than there were when Bill Clinton took office.

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/strongest-economy-generation-youre-government-worker

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@LBB…”Nearly 800,000 new government jobs have been added since January, 1993.”

EVERY one of those was at the state and local level. From January 1993 to the end of 1996 federal employment was REDUCED by 404,000. That was 161,000 departmental employees, 237,000 military personnel and 5000 judicial employees.

http://www.opm.gov/feddata/historicaltables/totalgovernmentsince1962.asp

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Is the taxes Affected Lockheed is that why their moving?

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Twinkie CEO Admits Company Took Employees Pensions and Put It Toward Executive Pay

Cons can’t comprehend the meaning of that sentence.

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JDW: That’s what happens when you TRASH the denominator…in this case the economy…thanks a bunch Duhbya!
———————–

Wrong. That’s what happens when you increase spending from $3 trillion per year to $3.7 trillion per year, as Obozo has done. The denominator is just fine, Obozo having inherited a recovery.

Real GDP (JDW’s “denominator”) by year in millions of 2005 dollars:

2001 11,347,200
2002 11,543,100
2003 11,836,400
2004 12,246,900
2005 12,623,000
2006 12,958,500
2007 13,206,400
2008 13,161,900
2009 12,703,100
2010 13,088,000
2011 13,315,100

Once again, you’ve trifled with the wrong person, JDW. You should know better by now.

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Oh good grief.

Businesses thrive because of taxes – which pay for the ports and roads and airports they use to get their products to markets, and the legal system which protects their intellectual properties, and educates their workers, and the export and business assistance offered by the government, and on and on.

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Still blaming Bush because that is where the blame lies. Hate the message, not the messenger.

Read the first paragraph:

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3849

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Hell, the next Republican President will be blaming Bush. He wasn’t even a footnote in the last election. No one mentioned his name. I don’t recall a single candidate referring to him as “our President Bush”.

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Nice try, Real Athens, but an opinion piece from a proglodyte special interest group isn’t very convincing.

Have we just been on autopilot these last four years? I guess we should have elected someone who would actually do something to improve economic growth, reduce unemployment, and get government deficits under control. Elections have consequences.

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@Real Athens…that Figure 1 chart is startling isn’t it…Duhbya…”The Gift that Keeps on Giving!”

Kyle you should take a look…you might understand. LBB don’t bother it will make your head explode.

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Kyle thinks that after you sign a bill into law the implementation and infrastructure magically appear in place.

What we have here is the realities of implementation. Not everything is spelled out and you learn to adjust.

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My Christmas Wish List for 2nd Obama Term

Dear Santa,

What I want for Christmas in a second term for President Obama is for these things to happen.
Stipulated: The main thing that has to happen if the USA is to succeed is that the most wealthy must pay similar rates of taxes as they did from 1932 to 1981, when America was great!

1. Please let the drug war come to an end. This has been the longest and most hurtful and dumb war in the history of the human race. This war is killing us in rural America and Urban America and in South America and all the way to Afghanistan. I think a US president has the power to end it. Please let that happen.

2. Can we finally normalize our relations with Cuba? This is a win win win win situation for everybody involved, but because of old grudges we still don’t do it. Please give us that. It would send a message of peace and love and progress to the whole world.

3. Please let people marry whoever they want. I guess this one’s the easiest and most obvious of all. It’s a good thing for everybody and it naturally occurs without anyone noticing anyway, essentially, please let us make it legal.

Come on Santa! I know you can do it!

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Stipulated: The main thing that has to happen if the USA is to succeed is that the most wealthy must pay similar rates of taxes as they did from 1932 to 1981, when America was great!
——–

Please explain how that fixes any problem that we face. We already know it doesn’t fix even 10% of Obozo’s deficit problem.

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Wrong. And you know it.

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If the Buh Administration had been paying a little more attention to some FBI agents in Minneapolis (instead of trying to pick a fight with Iraq) September 11 would still be known as Bear Bryant’s birthday

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Stipulated: Regardless of tax rates, tax revenue is 20% of GDP on average.

Obozo is spending 25% of GDP.

It’s the spending, stupid.

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Will wonders never cease: Republicans cannot understand that corporate welfare hurts we the people and the United States of America!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all corporations are created equal…

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“Corporations are people, my friend.”

Really? How come they pay a lower tax rate then most Americans?

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So how did that depraved statement by the unfit to lead Mr. Romney work out for him, my friends?

LOL at him and you rubes!

BTW faux conservatives, how does CEO boot polish really taste?

Better luck in 2024…

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more on the Hostess debacle (to the workers, not senior mgmt):

On August 12 of 2011, the employees got a letter that said that the company was going to “temporarily suspend payments” to its pension funds. That would be the $3 per hour that this worker had negotiated as part of his compensation – instead of paying it to him by putting it into his pension fund now, the company said they were going to put it in later.

As the letter said, “I want to be clear that this temporary suspension of payments to the pension fund will not affect your pension benefits.” Workers believed management, and kept on working.

But, it turned out, as we learned from that interview in today’s Wall Street Journal, that the senior management wasn’t just “borrowing” the pension funds – they were using them to fund ongoing operations. Including big paychecks to the fatcats.

http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/twinkie-ceo-admits-company-took-employees-pensions-and-put-it

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On August 12 of 2011, the employees got a letter that said that the company was going to “temporarily suspend payments” to its pension funds. That would be the $3 per hour that this worker had negotiated as part of his compensation – instead of paying it to him by putting it into his pension fund now, the company said they were going to put it in later.

Kinda like Social “Security,” eh?

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Most Republicans don’t understand the basic difference between marginal and effective tax rates and have no idea what their own tax rates are. Much less those for anyone or any thing else…

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Finn, I wish you were as upset with Barry’s mishandling of America’s future as you are at the Hostess CEO’s performance. Promises they can’t keep and know to be lies at the time, seem to be something both of them have in common.

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RE: Kyle wrote, “I guess they had to pass the bill to find out what was in it.”

Nancy Pelosi never said that or implied that. I expect that kind of cheap shot and misrepresentation from a misinformed commenter, but not from an AJC editorial writer.

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A closer look into the “non-partisan” (cough cough) think tank.

CBPP.

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Real Athens: Really? How come they pay a lower tax rate then most Americans?
—————————–

They don’t. Half of Americans pay a rate of 0%, so you’re obviously wrong.

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Aesop @ 10:38

Seems you wear the same blinders as the Bush Administration did:

“… He paid between $6000 and $8000 dollars to essentially learn to take off and land the 747-400. His exuse is weak: he just wants to learn how to do it! That’s pretty ominous and suggests a hijacking plan.

He’s in the U.S. since 02/2001 on a visa waiver from the UK, where he claims to reside. He’s traveling on a French passport, although the flight instructor who has been with him for the last few days believes he’s Middle Eastern. Indices show his last name in Lebanese.”

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Well, Kyle, looks like everthing has been covered here.

AmVet has brought up Hitler again…
The Pomposity Twins, Real Athens and JDW know the secret innerworkings of Terrorists plans from day one. Their secret code rings from Wheaties are still working.
Cheesy is against electing Romney!
ObamaCare is the best plan that witch doctors ever put together.
Finn is still mad ’cause he aint got no Twinkies!
And above all: BUSH IS STILL PRESIDENT AND RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING.
***May Santa bring all these fine libs a big bag of new and different toys. Their play time is getting monotonous.!****

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9/11: A wholly-owned subsidiary of the Clinton administration. Brought to you by eight years of doing nothing about al Qaeda or Islamofascist terrorism and refusing to take OBL from the Sudan when offered on a silver platter.

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“About Obamacare, the bill would have been better, much better, if Republicans had gone along with a single payer plan.”

In the real world, the r’s had nothing to do with what we ended up with. Single payer/public option was taken out because there were not enough DEM votes. You folks need to quit re-writing history…….

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Remember when most every working American paid something toward the operation of their country?

Just another “regressive” thought!

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“Republicans cannot understand that corporate welfare hurts we the people and the United States of America!”

Not necessarily…….as we are corporations, taking away the subsidies may very well lead to reduced profits, which means reduced 401k and pension plans for the masses, reduced benefits for the employees of said corps, reduction of profit sharing of said corps, and higher prices to customers……..

Pick your poison, but understand that the “people” pay it either way……..

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JamVet: Would somebody please tell Lil that people do not pay taxes!
————————-

Maybe not you or those inside your bubble. Just the 50% with productive, wealth-creating jobs.

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BB, like I said, since this election I’ve changed.

I love you neocons.

You are the greatest thing to happen to non-Republicans since sliced bread!

Tell me again how everybody but you cons are stupid, lazy takers, OK?

LOL…

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““Corporations are people, my friend.”

Really? How come they pay a lower tax rate then most Americans?”

I like the idea of corps paying a set tax rate……then all these folks that don’t understand how it works can just pay the few extra nickels on what they buy and be none the wiser that their tax went up. The perfect solution to taxing the ignorant.

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Incidentally, it’s clear that Kyle hates ObamaCare. But while we’re on the subject, it’s a good time to remind people about how we’re already benefiting.

* Policies can no longer be rescinded when you get Cancer because you forgot to indicate on the application that you had a zit when you were 15.

* Those of us with health insurance no longer have to worry about going bankrupt because of medical expenses. People used to run out of insurance and go bankrupt because they blew through their lifetime insurance limits. Obamacare has eliminated these lifetime limits.

* By allowing parents to cover their children through 26, millions who would otherwise be uninsured are now insured. In addition, that saves money for all of us when premiums are collected for younger, healthier insureds.

* Insurers must pay 80 percent of premiums for health care. If they spend less than that, they must refund the difference. Also works to keep premiums low.

* People who could not get insurance because of pre-existing conditions can.

* Free checkups and other preventive health coverage (mammograms, colonoscopies, and so on).

* Entitlement reform (yes, Democrats reformed Medicare to save hundreds of billions). For example, paying Medicare providers based on quality of care rather than the number of tests or procedures they perform.

* Most seniors use Medicaid to pay for elder care in nursing homes. Obamacare allows states to use Medicaid to cover at-home care.

The list goes on and on. In fact, if each benefit had been passed separately, more people would know the benefits of Obamacare and, more likely, support it. However, since the legislations was passed as a big package with reform after reform, a lot of people still don’t know how they’re benefiting. The media didn’t cover the contents; it covered the politics. Hence, Nancy Pelosi’s statement: “But we have to pass the [health care] bill so that YOU can find out what’s in it…”

Take a look: http://www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/index.html#event1-pane

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The list goes on and on.
——————

So do the premium increases. Obozo promised Obozocare would lower premiums. It ain’t happening, just as conservatives warned.

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JamVet,10:51

THE WHIG PARTY? I believe you and Andrew Jackson were not “just born yesterday” and are founding members of AARP. But lining Whigs up with the GOP is somewhat on the level of hallucinations.

Now stay well. You may have to fight in the War of 1812.

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Dusty, how old are you?

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I’ll take Bill Clinton’s own word for it, Real Athens. I know how desperate y’all are to spin those words away, but they are what they are.

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JamVet

December 12th, 2012
11:03 am

Would somebody please tell Lil that people do not pay taxes!

They simply pass the costs onto everyone else in this country. (See how easy that was?)

LOL at you fake capitalists…

Well, I’ll be danged. The IRS sure cashed the check I sent them last April!

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Where were all you deficit hawks during 2000-2009 ? That’s right, when a republican is in office it doesn’t count. Just run up the tab then blame it all on the democrats when they have to “fix” it.
Bush was, and still is, one of the worst presidents in history. His reign of error still impacts us to this day.

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“But if that narrative works for you”

No Finn it’s narrative that works for you because evidently you either don’t keep informed or you have difficulty comprehending.

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LBB @ 11;28

Here you go:

http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2004-12-26/what-killed-off-the-gop-deficit-hawks

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LBB:

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/clinton-passed-on-killing-bin-laden/

Sorry, I try to stay away from NEWSMAX.

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Again, Real Athens, there’s audio of Bill Clinton copping to exactly as I claimed.

I’ll go with that.

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barry

Link? Two unfunded wars, irresponsible tax cuts, medicare part d, federal regulators looking the other way in banking, environment. Before bush was installed, we were heading towards conquering the debt, then, he and a rubber stamp republican congress happened…

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Or how about these? “When there is a bill that ends up on my desk as the president, you the public will have five days to look online and find out what’s in it before I sign it,” “eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses.” “If a company that currently has 10 U.S. employees increases its domestic full time employment to 20 employees, this company would get a $30,000 tax credit – enough to offset the entire added payroll tax costs to the company for the first $50,000 of income for the new employees,” “I have done more to take on lobbyists than any other candidate in this race. I don’t take a dime of their money, and when I am president, they won’t find a job in my White House.”
the Obama administration claims it will be “the most open and transparent in history.

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Has a lib ever won a debate on this blog?

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There was no tea party until we got trillion-dollar deficits and Obozocare.

Fixed.

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sailfish

December 12th, 2012
11:52 am

Besides, there was no tee party until we got an african american president, coincidence?

Finally, the race card! I didn’t know when, but, I knew it would happen sooner or later! Deflect and defend!

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There once was a WHIG

Who did a little ;jig.

HIs name was AmVet,

His backward ways were set.

Now he is joined

By Real Athens purloined !

May they win the War of 1812

By blogging from their rusting shelves.
——————

Later, sweet tomater….

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Barry

Are Appropriations Bills still approved in the House before spending can be approved or has that changed?

Have the Republicans not controlled the House for 14 of the last 18 years?

When looking at the total debt, has more accumulated under Republican or Democrat Presidents?

Your selective condemnation either shows willfull ignorance or lack of intellectually honesty………. It takes two to tango and both parties are at fualt, but your little mypoc mind can’t or wont admit that.

Either way, you would have made a great trumpet player seeing that you blow so hard on this blog.

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Aesop

What did he veto when he had Congress?

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down

Race or coincidence? Both are possible.

barry

When bush left the debt was at 10 trillion, all you can really tag obama with is the stimulus, obamacare has not cost a cent so far. Ongoing wars were inherited, get your head out of the georgia clay.

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Bill – His last budget, unperverted by democrats

Today, the Office of Management Budget projected a $296 billion federal deficit for fiscal year 2006.

And that was fighting two wars.

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When bush left the debt was at 10 trillion
—————————–

Seems like such a long time ago, eh?

Those were the days.

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Dont pout little Barry, it will be ok

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What else you need, son?

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“Thanks, Real Athens. You understand that your article shows that conservatives did criticize Our President Bush’s deficits, and smacks down sailfish’s bogus claim, right?”

http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2004-12-26/what-killed-off-the-gop-deficit-hawks

Yeah, I counted two GOP in the article.

Hilarious.

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Little B

See you were were unable or unwilling to discuss Appropriation Bills and the control of Congress?

hahahahahahaha

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“Has a lib ever won a debate on this blog?”

Everyday.

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There are no winners
just opinions;
tell that to
your minions!

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Still waiting for that link to back up your assertion, sockpuppet.

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Little B can’t count nor does he comprehend Appropriation Bills and we wont even mention who controlled the House the majority of time over the last 20 yrs?

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Little B as your other faux alpha wannbe partner would say

“Color me shocked” and “Your surreneder is accepted”…….

You take care little buddy. Keep your bib on and don’t fall

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That’s not what I challenged you on, sockpuppet.

You claimed my outrage was selective. You were just making stuff up. Got it.

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And Cheesy, just for the record, that “discourse” is coming from one of your buddies.

You must be real proud.

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Heh heh…my experience is with folks like you getting hacked off at losing the debate, then blowing a gasket and committing blog suicide.

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Clinton: Took his eye off the ball and allowed al Qaeda to plan, train for, and deploy the 9/11 hijackers.

I’m sure there’s a way to blame TARP on Obama or Clinton.

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One would be forgiven for suspecting that “Out of here” and “I’m just a Bill” are sockpuppets of the fake Lil’ Barry.

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Barry

Did you count up those debt dollars under Rs and Ds?

He doesn’t want to know that answer. It doesn’t fit his very narrow mis informed viewpoint.

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Fact: Clinton had eight years to do something about OBL, did next to nothing, and handed a ticking time bomb to his successor.

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I hate paying property taxes more than anything. I HATE it. HATE it, HATE it. But, I also understand it. We as a country could not survive without taxes. There are so many things we take for granted which are paid for by taxes. Think of it as a necessary evil and learn to live with it. It’s a fact of life that is not going away. Concentrate your energy where you might be able to affect some positive change and stop your damn whining.The President won, he’s in charge, he will win this battle and it will have little if any impact on the vast majority of you hateful morons. So, grow up and shut up.

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LLB

Well except for yourself no one on this blog ever stated that they thought you were too bright…. And you do not disappoint

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A link for what no one stated…

You do not disappoint, you don’t

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“(And how many even quasi-literate adults are capable of misspelling the word aspirin???)”

I’m almost sure that I’m the only one, JamVet. Of course, not all of us are as brilliant as you. It must be a terrible burden to bear having to blog with such inferior creatures as I, and I admire you for your tenacity! You are indeed my hero!

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Cc

Well you could have picked LLB, Tibs or even yourself

At least you didn’t lower your standards

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cc, do not flatter yourself with martyrdom.

You dodged the salient point in my post – my contention that Bush 43 was a horrifically incompetent commander-in-chief.

Don’t shoot the messenger…

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What’s the latest total of job losses due to;

1-Obamacare
2-Tax increases
3-Obama re-election?

Industries and their lobbyists are strong on “sky is falling” when anything comes along, except payless.

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Dunno, curious, but we do know that unemployment is as high today as it was four years ago when Obozo took office, even though the recession ended in June 2009. We also know that the proportion of Americans who work for a living has dropped to historic lows.

Not exactly a stirring argument for Obozo’s job-creating abilities.

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Im still trying to figure out why a sock puppet like ” I’m just a Bill” is still able to post. . .

Kyle? Any answers? This Guy certainly posts like a previously banned sock puppet.

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Tib, it’s gotta be like whack-a-mole dealing with the various sockpuppets.

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You guys love your conspiracies….

Just like the over sampling by the pollsters conspiracy last month

Hahahahaha

As always, thanks for the belly laughs

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This is interesting reading – just in case someone missed it!

http://american3rdposition.com/?p=8416

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cc, I do love you Bushbots. Still trying desperately to pretend that he was not one of the five worst presidents ever.

With friends like you, the GOP doesn’t even need any enemies.

Keep up the great work…

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Barry – 3:16

Presidents do NOT create jobs.

Corporations create jobs. Unfortunately, although they are sitting on tons of cash, they are’t hiring. They say it’s because of “uncertainty”.

Those of us with some sense know it’s because they’ve been laying off workers and piling more work on those remaining because they can. The remaining employees have had their overtime cut but still must complete their day’s work. Many times, they must work unpaid overtime just to get the work done. They don’t dare quit for reasons that must be ovbious.

None of this is new. I’ve seen this is the 70’s, 80,s and 90’s. If you had ever worked in a corporation and not been one of the big shots, you’d know what I was talking about and would stop all this “Obozo’s job-creating abilities” nonsense.

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JamVet

That CC character must really like you. You are batting a thousand in his book. Heck if you bat 300 in the MLB you are a star…. You must be his super star

Bless his heart, he wants you to be his mentor and teacher
He looks up to you.

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Linda

Smarts isn’t you for sure.

The debt didn’t start with Bush 2 nor did I say it did…

Go back and add the numbers up, if you know how for all Ds and Rs then get back with me

Hahahahahahahha

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Linda

How does 5.7 add up to being more than 10.7?

16.4 minus 10.7 equals 5.7n yet in your usual lack of brilliance you claim Obama racked up more debt than all Presidents combined

Psssst; 10.7 is greater then 5.7.. so what you said was as incorrect as the majority of all your other posts..

But have a great day… Let me know when you have learned how to count a little better

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cc has been in an even more horrible mood than usual since his Messiah Mitt got trounced.

To which I say…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scVJL19akH0

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I’m just@4:48, I happen to have a degree in Economics from one of the largest universities in the Southeastern US. I’ll put up my “smarts” against any liberal.
Your comparison is from 16 years of Democratic presidents to 20 years of Republican presidents & also does not take us to 12/12/12 & a natl. debt of $16.4 T. Debt added during your time frame by Reagan, Papa Bush & Bush was about equal to the debt added by Carter, Clinton & Obama, so far, but Obama’s budget will take us to twice what was added during these Republican presidents.
You cannot dispute the facts I pointed out, but blatantly attacked me, the messenger, tried to change the subject back to your comment rather than focusing on mine & tried to intimidate me with your laughter. This is not funny.
I’ve addressed your comment. Can you address mine?

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You can tell when the libs got their keisters handed to them in a debate, they start mumbling about Romney, who ever that is.

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I’m Just@5:03, What I said was, “Obama has racked up more debt in less than 4 years than the 1st 42 presidents combined racked up in 236 years.”

Clinton was the 42nd president. The debt at the end of the Clinton adm. was $5.7 T. That was the total debt that the 1st 42 presidents racked up, before Bush 43.

The debt at the end of Bush 43 was $10.7 T & it is now $16.4 T, which means $5.7 T has been racked up during Obama 44, which means “Obama has racked up more debt in less than 4 years than the 1st 42 presidents racked up in 236 years.”

Who is it that lacks brilliance, is incorrect & doesn’t know how to count?

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CC@5:02, You are absolutely right. My next project is to give my Tom cat a bath, & I have only a half a box of band-aids left. I mistakenly thought that arguing with a liberal was a better temporary alternative than participating in a cat fight in the tub. My bad. Better to shed blood for a good cause than to shed wisdom with a lost cause. At least my Tom cat does not have ADD or Alzheimer’s. He can focus & forgets nothing.

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Linda – 5:56

You do know, I hope, that most of that debt “Obama has racked up” comes from funding Bush’s useless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Linda`:

The cat has far more intelligence than a lib . . . and they are lovable, too!

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carlosgvv: Presidents do NOT create jobs.
———————-

We know this one doesn’t.

Are we supposed to take a break from crediting/blaming the president for the job numbers because it’s a Democrat and he’s failing miserably? That’s not how it worked during the 2007/2008 recession or during the 1990’s dot com bubble.

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When will liberals stop blaming Bush?

I’m guessing about the same time that Republicans join the rest of humanity and acknowledge that he was one of the most incompetent American presidents ever…

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JDW@6:30, Bush’s tax cuts increased tax revenues AND decreased unemployment. Not only that, but the top 1% of earners paid 37% of the taxes in ‘00 (before the tax cuts) & 40% of the taxes in ‘07 AND the bottom 50% of earners paid 15% LESS of the taxes in ‘07 than in ‘00.

You & other liberals have been complaining all these years about ALL of the Bush tax cuts & are right here, tonight, still complaining about ALL of the Bush tax cuts, proving for the 357th time that liberals have no intention of extending them for the middle class, if you have your way.

Leave me alone. You are helpless & hopeless. You are also rude & are not worthy of even a glance in your direction. Go & argue with a minion that might, just might, bite off a little bit of your propaganda & might not understand the dire, absolutely dire shape the US is in, how imminent the doom is & how it will affect him, her or it. You are a smart person but the worst type of American by not being honest with our situation. Get lost!

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USA has the BEST healthcare in the world…

Propaganda worthy of Goebbels..

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When will liberals stop blaming Bush?
———————–

When/if any little thing at all goes well.

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LBBO must have a new addition to his family.

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Obama to pull combat troops from Iraq by August 2010
WHITE HOUSE

Share this on:Facebook Twitter Digg delicious reddit MySpace StumbleUpon LinkedIn February 26, 2009

President Obama says he plans to keep up to 50,000 support troops in Iraq after combat troops leave in 2010.President Obama told congressional leaders Thursday he’s planning to pull all combat troops out of Iraq by August 2010, according to three congressional officials.

Under this scenario, all combat troops will be withdrawn within 19 months of Obama’s January inauguration, three months longer than his promise on the campaign trail.

In a meeting at the White House Thursday evening, Obama also told lawmakers that he plans to keep a range of 35,000 to 50,000 support troops on the ground in Iraq after combat troops are out, the officials said.

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All U.S. troops have to be out of Iraq by December 31, 2011, under an agreement the Bush administration signed with the Iraqi government last year.

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cc@6:32, Cats are loveable? My Tom cat has a fancy for coyotes (& liberals) (same species).

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Wrong, wrong, wrong, JDW.

After Our President Bush cut taxes, revenue went up, GDP growth went up, and unemployment went down. The deficit prior to Democrat control in 2006 was $160 billion. Bush fixed the Dodd/Frank/CRA meltdown and handed off a recovery to Obozo. I know all these facts just kill you, but that’s the way it was.

Fact is, we were better off under Our President Bush. The credit rating of AAA attests to that.

Obozo’s had four years to do what he wanted and we have more debt, higher deficits, higher unemployment, and more poverty.

Your guy’s a failure.

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cheers to you kyle for a great article and to SB for the comments– those pretty much sums it all up.
when the mess hits the fan as it will before barry leaves office there will be no doubt in anyone’s minds that over taxation, printing money, and deficit spending just don’t work. fortunately there are laws that prevent folks from trying it at home.

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CC, Lil’ Barry, md, Aesop, etc., I might be out of pocket for a few days. I would appreciate it if you would copy & paste any parts of my 10:24 comment to JDW tomorrow &/or for the next few days & any other comments I have made to drill home our message. Carry on! Good job! We won the states & the House, again! We are winners! Hope that we can retain our country?????????

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Get your failed party out of our economy.

Fix your party cons.

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“Obama’s campaign strategy included social media. It would only make sense that he also employed moles on all the conservative blogs, especially Kyle’s, moles paid 24/7.’

Why not ask Kyle if that is what he thinks, you damn fool.

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The long term, hidden, unanticpated consequences of this, Obama’s greatest first term “triumph” — the Mother of All Entitlements — will only come into focus over a period of time. We are now getting the first glimpses of it now that Obama’s second term has been assured. Remember, as Speaker Nancy Pelosi reminded us when it was passed, no one had really read the bill. They would have to pass it first to see what was in it (and they call Boehner a bad Speaker?!).

And all this blah, blah, blah about the raising taxes on the top 2%. I wonder how many of these baying hound geniuses have even a clue that the top 2% will be paying a lot more taxes in 2013 because of the Obamacare additional taxes on dividend and capital gains – from investments in business made to grow businesses and increase jobs? Not too many I am guessing.

Some Pub/Cons are saying that the Pubs should just cave. Let Obama have everyhing he wants: Higher taxes on the top 2%, a new $50 billion stimulus package, no cuts in any federal programs, and no more Congressional control of the debt ceiling. And then the additional drag on the economy of all all the Obamacare taxes soon to be upon us, let them run with it until the economy finally collapses. At that point, there will be no hope for Hillary succeeding him, and the Pub/Cons can come in and take control for many years, and clean it all up with a sound fiscal policy.

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captguitarman: I wonder how many of these baying hound geniuses have even a clue that the top 2% will be paying a lot more taxes in 2013 because of the Obamacare additional taxes on dividend and capital gains
—————————-

Not many. A poll found that 60% think the top tax rate should be 25%…of course it’s already higher than that. The Obozo voter is light on facts, heavy on envy and greed.

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Now while trashing revenues do you think Duhbya had the sense to curb spending OH NO…two unfunded wars and a unfunded Insurance program are just two more of his blunders PLUS he raised defense spending THROUGH the ROOF.

Talk about historically illiterate. It’s almost as though 9/11 never happened or Bush had a choice with it.

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I googled to get information on what Al Franken and some other democratic Senators are opposed to in the Affordable Health Care Act. And low and behold, i get the wisdom of Kyle Wingfield. And he has to be oh so smug and snarky.

i believe Democratic congressmen do a much better job of governing for the will of all the people, because they do not do everything in lock, stock and barrel.

A few Republicans are denounces Grover Norquist and i applaud them. The rest i’ve had it with.

Perhaps the Journalism of Kyle Wingfield will clear my head and get me back to believing in what i’m suppose to believe in.

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