Will wonders never cease: Democrats discover taxes hurt businesses!
How cute: Fifteen Democratic senators who voted for Obamacare back in 2009 are asking Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to see that the excise tax on medical devices is not implemented for now.
Read their letter here. It ticks all the usual boxes for the kind of anti-tax arguments that Democrats typically reject out of hand:
- The industry “directly employs over 400,000 people in the United States and is responsible for a total of two million high-skilled manufacturing jobs.”
- The industry “is also one of the few that enjoys a net trade surplus…”
- Our economy has a need for “increasing exports, promoting small businesses, and growing high-tech manufacturing jobs for the future…”
- The slapdash way in which Obamacare was constructed, with major decisions punted to an unaccountable bureaucracy to make (OK, that’s not exactly how the senators put it), has caused “significant uncertainty and confusion for businesses.”
- Rather than moving forward with another punitive tax on a particular industry, it would be preferable “to develop a long-term solution to help move our economy forward, reduce our debt and reform our tax code…”
- Not moving forward with this tax “will benefit patients, innovators and boost our country’s economic growth.”
All of which are arguments that would have been helpful for these Democrats to make three years ago when they were rushing to pass Obamacare in the first place. Conservatives made these very same arguments at the time, only to have Democrats ram the law through Congress anyway.
It turns out that some of these senators represent states where the medical-device industry is particularly important. I guess they had to pass the bill to find out what was in it.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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356 comments Add your comment
Real Athens
December 12th, 2012
9:51 am
“Our President Bush did after inheriting the dot-com implosion and the Islamofascist terrorism problem”
As I recall, the Clinton Justice Department put the first guys who tried to blow up the Trade Center on trial and won convictions.
The towers were attacked again on whose watch? I recall a “real president” was ready nursery rhymes to some kids in Florida when they fell.
Nice try.
Lil' Barry Bailout -OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 12th, 2012
9:52 am
Stipulated: The main thing that has to happen if the USA is to succeed is that the most wealthy must pay similar rates of taxes as they did from 1932 to 1981, when America was great!
——–
Please explain how that fixes any problem that we face. We already know it doesn’t fix even 10% of Obozo’s deficit problem.
Lil' Barry Bailout -OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 12th, 2012
9:54 am
Sorry, Real Athens…your logic works when playing Hot Potato, but nowhere else.
Bill Clinton owns 9/11.
Real Athens
December 12th, 2012
9:55 am
Wrong. And you know it.
TheDixieDove.com
December 12th, 2012
9:56 am
I always say, since everybody on the right and left describe our economic troubles as ‘Like The Great Depression’ then why don’t we see any stories recounting how we got out of the Great Depression?
Between 1940-80 the wealthiest Americans paid between 70% to 90% federal income tax and that’s what allowed us to build the American Dream. How else could we afford it? Between 1940-80 we fought and paid for WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, we built our US Interstate Expressway system, Roads, Electrical Grid, Telephone, our main Bridges and Tunnels; we Made every Car we Drove and we wore just the Clothes we Sewed and WE WENT TO THE MOON SIX TIMES-AND WE PAID FOR IT ALL!
Real Athens
December 12th, 2012
9:57 am
If the Buh Administration had been paying a little more attention to some FBI agents in Minneapolis (instead of trying to pick a fight with Iraq) September 11 would still be known as Bear Bryant’s birthday
TheDixieDove.com
December 12th, 2012
9:58 am
how ya like them apples little racist telephone?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 12th, 2012
9:58 am
Stipulated: Regardless of tax rates, tax revenue is 20% of GDP on average.
Obozo is spending 25% of GDP.
It’s the spending, stupid.
Don't Tread
December 12th, 2012
10:01 am
“All of which are arguments that would have been helpful for these Democrats to make three years ago when they were rushing to pass Obamacare in the first place.”
They received and followed their marching orders from Party leadership and didn’t think (or even read) about what they were passing. And yet they will keep passing bills in this manner (especially spending bills – but wait, we don’t have a spending problem, no sirree) until individual freedom is gone and our economy is broken beyond repair, or the revolution starts, whichever comes first.
“Party before country”, as the liberals like to project on others. Except in their case, the Party looks a lot like the Communist Party. And by the way, the CPUSA doesn’t run their own candidates in elections but instead supports Democrats. Wonder why?
JamVet
December 12th, 2012
10:03 am
Will wonders never cease: Republicans cannot understand that corporate welfare hurts we the people and the United States of America!
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all corporations are created equal…
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 12th, 2012
10:09 am
In late 1998 or early 1999, bin Laden summoned Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to Kandahar and gave approval for Mohammed to go forward with the plot.
Any questions?
Real Athens
December 12th, 2012
10:09 am
“Corporations are people, my friend.”
Really? How come they pay a lower tax rate then most Americans?
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 12th, 2012
10:09 am
Except medical device corporations, of course….
JamVet
December 12th, 2012
10:13 am
So how did that depraved statement by the unfit to lead Mr. Romney work out for him, my friends?
LOL at him and you rubes!
BTW faux conservatives, how does CEO boot polish really taste?
Better luck in 2024…
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 12th, 2012
10:14 am
The marginal effective tax rate (METR) for U.S. corporations is 35.6%. The METR includes corporate income taxes, sales taxes on capital purchases, and other capital-related taxes such as financial transaction taxes and asset-based taxes. On the other hand, the calculation also takes into account deductions and credits, such as deductions for capital depreciation, inventory costs, and interest expenses.
There isn’t an individual on Earth that pays more than 35%, especially one in the Kennedy family.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
December 12th, 2012
10:21 am
more on the Hostess debacle (to the workers, not senior mgmt):
On August 12 of 2011, the employees got a letter that said that the company was going to “temporarily suspend payments” to its pension funds. That would be the $3 per hour that this worker had negotiated as part of his compensation – instead of paying it to him by putting it into his pension fund now, the company said they were going to put it in later.
As the letter said, “I want to be clear that this temporary suspension of payments to the pension fund will not affect your pension benefits.” Workers believed management, and kept on working.
But, it turned out, as we learned from that interview in today’s Wall Street Journal, that the senior management wasn’t just “borrowing” the pension funds – they were using them to fund ongoing operations. Including big paychecks to the fatcats.
http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/twinkie-ceo-admits-company-took-employees-pensions-and-put-it
MANGLER
December 12th, 2012
10:22 am
Why was it OK for Bush and the GOP to pass laws that nobody knew what was in them until they were passed, and for Mitt to propose a budget plan but not want to disclose the details until after he was elected, but it’s not OK when the Presidents people essentially do the same thing?
Oh that’s right, because when the GOP did it and proposes it, the rules help corporations rather than sick people. Got’chya.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 12th, 2012
10:23 am
On August 12 of 2011, the employees got a letter that said that the company was going to “temporarily suspend payments” to its pension funds. That would be the $3 per hour that this worker had negotiated as part of his compensation – instead of paying it to him by putting it into his pension fund now, the company said they were going to put it in later.
Kinda like Social “Security,” eh?
Real Athens
December 12th, 2012
10:27 am
Aesop:
From the Moussaoui trial: A couple of emails.
(FBI Agent Harry Samit to W. Jay Abbot)
“>>>HARRY SAMIT 08/15/01 08:53 PM>>>
Jay,
Minneapolis has a short notice check request for info on a French citizen. We really don’t know what we have here, here’s the (weird) story:
Our duty agent received a call from a company that does flight simulator training for Boeing 747 Series 400 pilots. They are now training a student who just showed up to learn to fly the 747. He has no pilot’s license and minimal previous flight experience (in any aircraft type.) He paid between $6000 and $8000 dollars to essentially learn to take off and land the 747-400. His exuse is weak: he just wants to learn how to do it! That’s pretty ominous and suggests a hijacking plan.
He’s in the U.S. since 02/2001 on a visa waiver from the UK, where he claims to reside. He’s traveling on a French passport, although the flight instructor who has been with him for the last few days believes he’s Middle Eastern. Indices show his last name in Lebanese. [line blacked out for security reasons.]
I’m not even sure if you can run a check on French citizens, but if so, here he is:
Zacarias Moussaoui, DOB 05/30/1969
French Passport 00AE270016
Can you determine if he is known to [blacked out] or other [blacked out]. I will do an EC to follow up if you need one, but we’re working on a fairly short notice since his training is only scheduled to go for a few more days and we don’t want him to depart this area. Our INS guy on the JTTF is pretty sure we can arrest him on a visa overstay, but we want to get all we can on him first.
Thanks in advance for anything you can do.
Harry Samit”
and …
JamVet
December 12th, 2012
10:27 am
Most Republicans don’t understand the basic difference between marginal and effective tax rates and have no idea what their own tax rates are. Much less those for anyone or any thing else…
Real Athens
December 12th, 2012
10:29 am
Aesop? Any questions?
“>>>HARRY SAMIT 09/10/01 03:38 PM>>>
Cathy,
ITOS/RFU SSA Maltbie has determined that we do not have enough for either a criminal search warrant or a FISA search warrant of Moussaoui’s computer. We did not pursue this further because they have directed that this is an INS matter and that the “FBI does not have a dog in this fight.” Of course, I strongly disagree.
The current plan is to deport Moussaoui to France. [Blacked out] has advised that they have the legal authority to hold Moussaoui and search his effects. This search was a distant third in my list of desired outcomes, but at this point I am desperate to get into his computer. I’ll take anything.
My big fear is that the French will determine that most, if not all of Moussaoui’s criminal activity occurred outside France and they have no ability to convict (he’s lived in the UK since 1995). In that case, he walks. I don’t know if they’ll have to return his property in this case (including the 747 flight manuals), but it seems possible.
The current wrangle with ITOS/RFU is over whether John W. (our INS co-case agent) and I can go to France to be present for the search. LEGAT Paris relayed [blacked out] request for FBI personnel to do just that, but RFU is opposed.
I’ll keep you posted, but I am not optimistic. Thanks for your help and assistance.
Take care,
Harry
Rafe Hollister preparing for an Obamanist America
December 12th, 2012
10:31 am
Finn, I wish you were as upset with Barry’s mishandling of America’s future as you are at the Hostess CEO’s performance. Promises they can’t keep and know to be lies at the time, seem to be something both of them have in common.
Real Athens
December 12th, 2012
10:33 am
Hey Aesop:
“The marginal effective tax rate (METR) for U.S. corporations is 35.6%. The METR includes corporate income taxes, sales taxes on capital purchases, and other capital-related taxes such as financial transaction taxes and asset-based taxes. On the other hand, the calculation also takes into account deductions and credits, such as deductions for capital depreciation, inventory costs, and interest expenses”
I don’t care what the rate is. Let reality slap you in the face.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/01/ge-exxon-walmart-business-washington-corporate-taxes.html
Interested Observer
December 12th, 2012
10:34 am
RE: Kyle wrote, “I guess they had to pass the bill to find out what was in it.”
Nancy Pelosi never said that or implied that. I expect that kind of cheap shot and misrepresentation from a misinformed commenter, but not from an AJC editorial writer.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 12th, 2012
10:38 am
Oh yeah, now the libs are suggesting we deport foreigners caught wanting to fly airplanes. Wow, should we build a fence on our border now too?
John
December 12th, 2012
10:39 am
A closer look into the “non-partisan” (cough cough) think tank.
CBPP.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 12th, 2012
10:41 am
Real Athens – My guess is that GE deducted all of the sales, local, state, excise, sewer, energy, employment, unemployment, carbon, luxury, air, land and sea taxes on their federal 1120 corporate tax return but I’m sure you aren’t able to follow along.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 12th, 2012
10:43 am
Real Athens: Really? How come they pay a lower tax rate then most Americans?
—————————–
They don’t. Half of Americans pay a rate of 0%, so you’re obviously wrong.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 12th, 2012
10:45 am
It’s pretty obvious that the libs are incapable of helping small business if they think all the government wants from one is the federal tax on their earnings.
You can’t even imagine how many government agencies there are looking to get their piece of your pie.
Real Athens
December 12th, 2012
10:46 am
Aesop @ 10:38
Seems you wear the same blinders as the Bush Administration did:
“… He paid between $6000 and $8000 dollars to essentially learn to take off and land the 747-400. His exuse is weak: he just wants to learn how to do it! That’s pretty ominous and suggests a hijacking plan.
He’s in the U.S. since 02/2001 on a visa waiver from the UK, where he claims to reside. He’s traveling on a French passport, although the flight instructor who has been with him for the last few days believes he’s Middle Eastern. Indices show his last name in Lebanese.”
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 12th, 2012
10:49 am
Real Athens blames Our President Bush for something that happened one month after Our President Bush took office.
But four years later (and eventually, eight years) everything bad that happens on Obozo’s watch is still Bush’s fault.
You and your ilk are hilarious!
Dusty
December 12th, 2012
10:51 am
Well, Kyle, looks like everthing has been covered here.
AmVet has brought up Hitler again…
The Pomposity Twins, Real Athens and JDW know the secret innerworkings of Terrorists plans from day one. Their secret code rings from Wheaties are still working.
Cheesy is against electing Romney!
ObamaCare is the best plan that witch doctors ever put together.
Finn is still mad ’cause he aint got no Twinkies!
And above all: BUSH IS STILL PRESIDENT AND RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING.
***May Santa bring all these fine libs a big bag of new and different toys. Their play time is getting monotonous.!****
JamVet
December 12th, 2012
10:51 am
You cons are my new heroes.
Without your inestimable help, there is NO way that the ongoing beatdown of the GOP/Whig Party from sea to shining sea could have been this successful.
Keep up the good work in not evolving.
We are all counting on you…
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 12th, 2012
10:51 am
9/11: A wholly-owned subsidiary of the Clinton administration. Brought to you by eight years of doing nothing about al Qaeda or Islamofascist terrorism and refusing to take OBL from the Sudan when offered on a silver platter.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 12th, 2012
10:54 am
Clinton might have taken OBL from the Sudan when they offered him up, but Susan Rice didn’t think it would be very nice to do that.
md
December 12th, 2012
10:54 am
“About Obamacare, the bill would have been better, much better, if Republicans had gone along with a single payer plan.”
In the real world, the r’s had nothing to do with what we ended up with. Single payer/public option was taken out because there were not enough DEM votes. You folks need to quit re-writing history…….
md
December 12th, 2012
10:58 am
“Between 1940-80 the wealthiest Americans paid between 70% to 90% federal income tax and that’s what allowed us to build the American Dream.
Between 1940-80 we fought and paid for WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, we built our US Interstate Expressway system, Roads, Electrical Grid, Telephone, our main Bridges and Tunnels; we Made every Car we Drove and we wore just the Clothes we Sewed and WE WENT TO THE MOON SIX TIMES-AND WE PAID FOR IT ALL!”
Good chuckle, thanks.
Amazing how it went from “wealthiest americans” paid to WE paid. Have to love the mindset.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 12th, 2012
11:01 am
Remember when most every working American paid something toward the operation of their country?
Just another “regressive” thought!
JamVet
December 12th, 2012
11:03 am
Would somebody please tell Lil that people do not pay taxes!
They simply pass the costs onto everyone else in this country. (See how easy that was?)
LOL at you fake capitalists…
md
December 12th, 2012
11:03 am
“Republicans cannot understand that corporate welfare hurts we the people and the United States of America!”
Not necessarily…….as we are corporations, taking away the subsidies may very well lead to reduced profits, which means reduced 401k and pension plans for the masses, reduced benefits for the employees of said corps, reduction of profit sharing of said corps, and higher prices to customers……..
Pick your poison, but understand that the “people” pay it either way……..
bluecoat
December 12th, 2012
11:04 am
Premier McKeeva Bush is suspected of theft, alleged misuse of a government credit card and abuse of office, police said in a statement…
Must be catching, reckon?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 12th, 2012
11:05 am
JamVet: Would somebody please tell Lil that people do not pay taxes!
————————-
Maybe not you or those inside your bubble. Just the 50% with productive, wealth-creating jobs.
Real Athens
December 12th, 2012
11:05 am
Oh Dusty, please, go clean out your cat box.
JamVet
December 12th, 2012
11:08 am
BB, like I said, since this election I’ve changed.
I love you neocons.
You are the greatest thing to happen to non-Republicans since sliced bread!
Tell me again how everybody but you cons are stupid, lazy takers, OK?
LOL…
Interested Observer
December 12th, 2012
11:10 am
RE: “the industry ‘is also one of the few that enjoys a net trade surplus…’”
It would have been nice if Kyle had also pointed out that this excise tax does not apply to devices that are produced for export, but does apply to devices that are imported. Therefore, it would not affect the industry’s ability to trade internationally. Also, with the expansion of health coverage that arises out of ObamaCare, the medical device industry will benefit substantially.
As indicated, the signatories of this letter are doing the bidding of industries in their states. But in truth, there’s no substance there.
md
December 12th, 2012
11:12 am
““Corporations are people, my friend.”
Really? How come they pay a lower tax rate then most Americans?”
I like the idea of corps paying a set tax rate……then all these folks that don’t understand how it works can just pay the few extra nickels on what they buy and be none the wiser that their tax went up. The perfect solution to taxing the ignorant.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 12th, 2012
11:12 am
Interested Observer: As indicated, the signatories of this letter are doing the bidding of industries in their states.
————————–
But you just got done telling us that the tax will have no effect on the industry.
Why the contradiction?
Interested Observer
December 12th, 2012
11:12 am
Incidentally, it’s clear that Kyle hates ObamaCare. But while we’re on the subject, it’s a good time to remind people about how we’re already benefiting.
* Policies can no longer be rescinded when you get Cancer because you forgot to indicate on the application that you had a zit when you were 15.
* Those of us with health insurance no longer have to worry about going bankrupt because of medical expenses. People used to run out of insurance and go bankrupt because they blew through their lifetime insurance limits. Obamacare has eliminated these lifetime limits.
* By allowing parents to cover their children through 26, millions who would otherwise be uninsured are now insured. In addition, that saves money for all of us when premiums are collected for younger, healthier insureds.
* Insurers must pay 80 percent of premiums for health care. If they spend less than that, they must refund the difference. Also works to keep premiums low.
* People who could not get insurance because of pre-existing conditions can.
* Free checkups and other preventive health coverage (mammograms, colonoscopies, and so on).
* Entitlement reform (yes, Democrats reformed Medicare to save hundreds of billions). For example, paying Medicare providers based on quality of care rather than the number of tests or procedures they perform.
* Most seniors use Medicaid to pay for elder care in nursing homes. Obamacare allows states to use Medicaid to cover at-home care.
The list goes on and on. In fact, if each benefit had been passed separately, more people would know the benefits of Obamacare and, more likely, support it. However, since the legislations was passed as a big package with reform after reform, a lot of people still don’t know how they’re benefiting. The media didn’t cover the contents; it covered the politics. Hence, Nancy Pelosi’s statement: “But we have to pass the [health care] bill so that YOU can find out what’s in it…”
Take a look: http://www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/index.html#event1-pane
guy
December 12th, 2012
11:14 am
Darwin is correct. Politicians only want to do what they can do to get re-elected with our tax money. We should all be raising hell with them instead of raising hell with each other. The clock is ticking!
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 12th, 2012
11:14 am
The list goes on and on.
——————
So do the premium increases. Obozo promised Obozocare would lower premiums. It ain’t happening, just as conservatives warned.