WSJ: Bed tax in states such as Georgia is ‘fraud’
Note to Georgia Republicans: Not everyone on the right is convinced that saying “But, the hospitals asked us to tax, er, fee them!” justifies the Medicaid bed tax, er, assessment fee passed two years ago and possibly up for renewal in next year’s legislative session.
In fact, the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal suggests this bed tax, er, assessment fee is ripe for elimination if President Obama and Congress are serious about even modest reforms to entitlement programs. From an editorial today:
A deal also ought to end the long-running “bed tax” scam in which states charge hospitals a fee to increase health-care spending and thus their federal matching rate. Then they launder some of the money back to the hospitals to offset the fee. This is real waste, fraud and abuse, not the talking-point version.
Who in the General Assembly will carry the bill to renew the tax, er, fee and explain why it’s not a “scam” that’s “real waste, fraud and abuse, not the talking-point version”?
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
154 comments Add your comment
MANGLER
December 3rd, 2012
11:50 am
So, the State charges a tax, er, fee simply to increase how much the Federal Govt gives to the State? Yeah, that sounds legit. Didn’t realize that. Thanks for pointing it out. Would eliminating that (and other) taxes, er, fees help reduce the cost of a tissue at a hospital from $4 each?
right to free speech.
December 3rd, 2012
11:50 am
Obama isn’t serious about anything except taking your money & giving it away.
MANGLER
December 3rd, 2012
11:51 am
ooh, my first 1st Yay! carry on.
JamVet
December 3rd, 2012
11:57 am
…scam in which states charge hospitals a fee to increase health-care spending…
Isn’t it time to shrink Georgia’s government down to the size where we can drown it in a thimble?
JF McNamara
December 3rd, 2012
12:10 pm
If all of your rhetoric is about not raising taxes, it makes it really hard to govern responsibly. Scams and frauds to push our tax burden on the feds is all you are left with unless you plan on cutting things you really need.
carlosgvv
December 3rd, 2012
12:15 pm
“then they(politicians) launder some of the money back to the hospitals”
And the rest of the money, no doubt, goes into the politicians pockets.
So, don’t look for any in our Republican dominated General Assembly to derail this gravy train.
Hillbilly D
December 3rd, 2012
12:27 pm
This is just another example of why the entire federal, state and local tax systems to be blown up and started anew. Maybe if we go back and lick our calf over, we can do a better job, next time.
Don't Tread
December 3rd, 2012
12:35 pm
Nearly everything connected with government is a fraud/waste/scam/kickback scheme these days. The only “innovations” are the brand new scams designed to separate productive people and their money.
Kyle Wingfield
December 3rd, 2012
12:36 pm
MANGLER @ 11:50: Prices are definitely at the heart of the issue when it comes to health care. Eliminating this tax/fee may not do that, but neither will keeping it in place.
Dusty
December 3rd, 2012
12:44 pm
Kyle,
I think we need a little more information on this four dollar bed tax.. Maybe I need lunch but I don’t see the total picture of this pay plan. Correct me here.
GA hospitals pay the state four dollars for each bed a Medicaid patients fills.
The Feds then match that four dollar total with a payment to Georgia. (not hospitals?)
Georgia then sends Fed money to same hospitals that sent original 4$ fund total or does it go into a general fund?
Is the object of fthis plan to get more Fed money to hospitals or just a tax to get Fed money into Georgia in general?
There must be some reason for passing such a plan but it doesn’t sound like a real money-maker for Georgia. Is there some other reason? Do all states try to get as much money from the Feds as possible?I
I believe that state Medicaid funds run short every year in Georgia . I also believe that the plan for ObamaCare will greatly increase the number of Medicaid patients. Does any agency ever stay within budget, state or federal??
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
12:49 pm
So the same Repugnican Admistration that will not accept federal money to expand Medicare coverage for the poor, even in the face of paying a share of said money, is scamming the same federal government out of money to bolster the budget…WOW and you wonder why we don’t trust Repugnicans.
jose
December 3rd, 2012
12:54 pm
Actually, the hospital tax in GA was pushed by Sonny Perdue and supported by a bunch of otherwise anti-tax Republicans,many of whom hold power today.
Kyle Wingfield
December 3rd, 2012
12:56 pm
Dusty @ 12:44: The $4 reference was not to the bed tax.
For a good explanation of how it works, see the section under the “Leveraging federal dollars” subhed in this news story.
jose
December 3rd, 2012
12:57 pm
JDW, to be fair, you are talking about expanding Medicaid, not Medicare, and the problem is that Medicaid provides extremely generous benefits while paying only about 70 percent of the actual cost of care provided. President Obama has proposed expanding to 100 percent for any new enrollees as part of Pelosi-care but only for two years. After that, the states are on the hook for hundreds of millions each. That is why Republicans have resisted.
Georgia
December 3rd, 2012
1:03 pm
Kyle wants to know why there is a bed tax. Maybe Egyptian cotton is more antiseptic. I want to know if Kyle has ever stood on call at an ER; ever stepped on a bedpan to get a signature from a patient?
South GA Food Taxer
December 3rd, 2012
1:11 pm
Look, you folks need to get real about taxes. I can’t say this to my own consituients while campaigning, but the bottom line is, we need those dollars. This is just a good way to get them without people seeing the direct taxation. I made the same argument when I tried to convince the General Assembly to reinstate the sales tax on food. Folks won’t notice and it will generate the revenue income we have to have.
Georgia
December 3rd, 2012
1:30 pm
There’s a laundry list of reasons why the bed tax is wrong. The egg tax! There aints no reason to veto that.
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
1:36 pm
@jose, you are correct it is Medicaid…my bad on the typo. As for being fair let me put it you this way. Georgians will pay a pro rata share of the costs of the program while rejecting $33 billion in aggregate benefits. All because of an estimated $250 million in costs per year for 10 years. To put that in perspective we are talking about a budget “hit” of around 1.25%. That is a rounding error in a $19 billion + budget.
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
1:43 pm
For those that still refuse to notice that our system is creating tremendous inequities….
“In the third quarter, corporate earnings were $1.75 trillion, up 18.6% from a year ago, according to last week’si gross domestic product report. That took after-tax profits to their greatest percentage of GDP in history.
But the record profits come at the same time that workers’ wages have fallen to their lowest-ever share of GDP”
http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/03/news/economy/record-corporate-profits/index.html?iid=Lead
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
1:47 pm
Oh, heavens! We’re “unequal”!
Boo-hoo! Cry me a frikkin river.
In case you missed it, JDW, the Constitution doesn’t protect equality of outcomes, only of opportunity.
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
1:58 pm
@Tiberuis…”Oh, heavens! We’re “unequal”!”
I am sure things are just rosy in Tiberiusville…well except for that whole election thingy…however it is pretty short sighted not to notice a problem when companies are making the most money in history and workers are making the least.
Then again I used short sighted and Tiberius in the same sentence…why those go together just like peanut butter and jelly.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
2:05 pm
The difference, JDW, is that I believe that the free market (or at least what is left of it after you liberals have eviscerated it) will correct itself, rather than relying on the government to do your dirty work as you advocate.
The biggest problem is that you and your liberal buddies have managed to wring every shred of initiative out of much of the American public, and created a class of people who wait for government to solve their problems whether it is government’s role to solve them or not.
jose
December 3rd, 2012
2:09 pm
JDW, when calculating cost benefit, it is important to note that Obama care is actually insurance reform, not comprehensive health care reform. It expands coverage without doing much to either control cost or increase access. For example, Georgia, like most states, is severely short of doctors, nurses, pharmacists, and other care workers. As noted, Medicaid does not pay the full cost of coverage so providers, who by virtue of demographics, will have no shortage of patients with health coverage to choose from. In the end, they won’t choose underpaying Medicaid patients. Also, demand for service will drive the creation of “concierge care” by which those who can afford it will pay a premium up front fee in exchange for a provider’s agreement to limit the size of his practice and guarantee of a timely appointment. Anticipating this outcome, Piedmont, Wellstar, Emory and all other large providers are aggressively setting up concierge or “executive-care” practices within their system.
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
2:13 pm
@jose, yep all valid issues however, it does not excuse the decision to turn down the funding that would benefit so many. The rate of demand is not going to change much in either case…what would have changed is the method of delivering against that demand. These people are going to end up in ER’s unable to pay the bill.
Steve
December 3rd, 2012
2:13 pm
Tiberius, why are you always pimping for the rich?
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
2:18 pm
@Tiberius…”The biggest problem is that you and your liberal buddies have managed to wring every shred of initiative out of much of the American public, and created a class of people who wait for government to solve their problems whether it is government’s role to solve them or not.”
Absolute hose$h!t. You are one of many that pine for an era that never existed…”The Good Ole Days”. Get your head back in the sunshinge and move forward rather than backwards and you would be a lot better off.
America today remains on the forefront of innovation and problem solving. Where we lag is in equality. We are in the process of creating a divided society and that, not debt or taxes, is what will kill us if we are not careful.
Steve
December 3rd, 2012
2:21 pm
I agree, that is horse____. The welfare that is sucking the life out of this country is corporate welfare, and the lowering of taxes on the wealthiest to the point where all of the money is funneled up and the ranks of the poor increase, the middle class shrinks. This is where we are today, one leg deep into a growing plutocracy.
Rocky
December 3rd, 2012
2:22 pm
Corporate America is doing nothing illegal in regards to the disparities JDW posted. However, they should expect the loyalty they are showing.
Life is a two way street. If there are cases where it is difficult to find the best and brightest, those companies can refer to that study.
Some companies understand this and compensate accordingly and other companies, especially older and larger ones rely on the statistics and their overall employee tenure to keep down wages.
Example: The major employer in Atlanta is no longer the draw of some of the best and brightest it once was. There are exceptions for sure and of course they can always fill an opening, but overall it is a shell in terms of the loyalty they once gave and expected. Pay and benefit decreases are no coincidental variables in the equation.
They have made a choice and many ex and current workers have made theirs.
You get what you pay for
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
2:23 pm
Steve, I am the one person who pimps for no one but myself, because that’s all I care about and can affect directly with my actions.
As to JDW’s non-rebuttal, 52% of Americans who today rely on some type of government assistance would disagree with your inability to rebut my contention except to call it a name. Our innovation is now rooted in how many ways we can find a government assistance program. Our problem solving is rooted in finding ways to qualify for them.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 3rd, 2012
2:23 pm
But the record profits come at the same time that workers’ wages have fallen to their lowest-ever share of GDP
———-
Soooooo…higher productivity is a bad thing?
Are wages going up or down in absolute terms? Stating them as a percentage of GDP is meaningless.
Reality
December 3rd, 2012
2:26 pm
@right to free speech,
You’re kidding, right? This farce (bed tax/fee) was enacted by the republicans here in Georgia. You have the gall to blame President Obama?
How stupid can you be?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
2:30 pm
“You have the gall to blame President Obama?”
Why not? Doesn’t Obama blame Bush for everything that has gone wrong in the last 12 years?
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
2:30 pm
@Tiberius…”52% of Americans who today rely on some type of government assistance”
More complete horse$h!t. A preonderance of those you cite rely on Social Security and Medicare…both programs that they paid into for participation. That is not reliance, that is recovering one’s investment.
Rocky
December 3rd, 2012
2:31 pm
Barry
Relative to inflation real wages have stagnated over the last 30 yrs. Some years there were increases, but overall stagnation as been the trend.
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
2:33 pm
@LBB….”Soooooo…higher productivity is a bad thing?”
Nooooooo…but we aren’t talking about productivity, we are talking about wages as a percent of our economy. If you want to talk productivity you can start here…psssssttttt we are fooling ourselves.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/january_february_2012/features/the_myth_of_american_productiv034576.php
Reality
December 3rd, 2012
2:34 pm
@TIberius -
In an idea world, you may be right.
However, our world is far from ideal. We have these political PACs that gather tons of money from wealthy individuals and corporations to support candidates for their own selfish gains. They flood the television with commercials that twist so-called ‘facts’ and distort the truth to slant viewers towards their position. Often, there are total lies in these commercials but no one regulates these lies!
How is this ideal? How is this fair?
Need I give you more examples where your idealistic view simply is not reality? If not, then you really need to gain another perspective on the real world and how to solve problems within reality.
Steve
December 3rd, 2012
2:35 pm
(and the banjo music from the movie “Deliverance” starts playing)
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
2:43 pm
” It’s not even remotely clear.”
An unsurprising response from John Q.
Wilbur
December 3rd, 2012
2:52 pm
Should “wealthy” individuals have less freedom than other people?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
2:54 pm
“A preonderance of those you cite rely on Social Security and Medicare…both programs that they paid into for participation. That is not reliance, that is recovering one’s investment.”
You mean that we are forced to contribute to, even if we don’t want to, don’t you, JDW?
And while you are partially right that it is recovering one’s money, it is certainly not an “investment”.
Rocky
December 3rd, 2012
2:55 pm
Wilbur
And you have any example of wealthy individuals having less freedoms?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
2:56 pm
Reality, we also have unions who also gather in hundreds of millions of dollars (by force) and put those same lying commercials on TV.
No different.
That’s REALITY.
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
3:08 pm
@Tiberius…”And while you are partially right that it is recovering one’s money, it is certainly not an “investment”.”
Whine all you want, your pay your money and recieve a series of cash flows…that is an investment. You want great returns…live longer.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 3rd, 2012
3:11 pm
Stating wages as a percent of GDP over time is meaningless, and in fact could be quite misleading. For illustration, consider a worker who triples his output and gets a 100% raise–his wages as a percent of output dropped, while in absolute terms they doubled.
Think before posting, JDW.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
3:11 pm
Nice try at deflection, JDW, but in case you missed it (and you always do), an investment is something YOU have control over. An investment is something your heirs can inherit. An investment is YOURS.
Social Security and Medicare fail that basic test.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 3rd, 2012
3:15 pm
Median wages increased every year and went from $21767 in 2001 to $26514 in 2008. In 2011 they were just $26965.
Obozo: Inferior to Our President Bush.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
3:17 pm
“Think before posting, JDW.”
That’ll be the day . . . .
JamVet
December 3rd, 2012
3:17 pm
Obozo: Inferior to Our President Bush.
LIL BB, the Democrat’s secret weapon…
Rocky
December 3rd, 2012
3:22 pm
So the wages went up because of who?
The economy imploded because of who?
Reality says there are many variables to each one.
Some will give credit when it meets their narative and deflect when it doesn’t.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 3rd, 2012
3:25 pm
“Some will give credit when it meets their narative and deflect when it doesn’t.”
——–
A nice summation of the Obozo receptacle’s creed.
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
3:27 pm
@LBB…”Think before posting, JDW.”
Now for this horse nugget….
“Stating wages as a percent of GDP over time is meaningless, and in fact could be quite misleading. For illustration, consider a worker who triples his output and gets a 100% raise–his wages as a percent of output dropped, while in absolute terms they doubled.”
Indeed had US output tripled and wages doubled you might have a point but as you well know that is not the case. In fact what has happened is real wages have remained stagnant over the last 30 years of Repugnican Supply Side nonsense and have now reached a historic low as a percentage of GDP.
In fact if you take a look at the history of the number you will find that it has been steadily declining for the last 30 years with the exception of the mid to late 90’s…coincidence? I think not.
Relevant…hell yes.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=2Xa
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
3:31 pm
@Tiberius…
Investment-the outlay of money usually for income or profit
Notice it says nothing about control or inheritance…you added that part not Webster.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 3rd, 2012
3:37 pm
Somebody obviously doesn’t know what “for illustration” means…
Unrefuted is my explanation that stating wages as a percent of GDP is meaningless at best, and (perhaps intentionally) misleading.
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
3:44 pm
@LBB…”Unrefuted is my explanation that stating wages as a percent of GDP is meaningless at best, and (perhaps intentionally) misleading.”
No LBB, that is not an explanation, you have an opinion to which you are entitled but with which the majority of people, including statisticians and economists do not agree.
Numbers on the economy expressed, as a percentage of the GDP are quite relevant because they are the only statistic that show the true gain of a particular GDP component. The only people that argue such facts are those that wish to ignore the reality of the situation.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
3:46 pm
John Q, get it through your thick head – LBB and I are two very different posters, both in beliefs and mannerisms.
Of course, given your inability to understand the English language, it is understandable that you cannot tell the difference.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
3:48 pm
“Notice it says nothing about control or inheritance…you added that part not Webster.”
So I’m guessing, JDW, that all of your “investments”, whether pubic or private, are all forfeit to the government in their entirety when you die?
Thanks for not playing. Or understanding English and common sense.
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
3:54 pm
@Tiberius…”So I’m guessing, JDW, that all of your “investments”, whether pubic or private, are all forfeit to the government in their entirety when you die?”
I am guessing that you have trouble reading and grasping the simple definition of a word like investment. There are a number so such cash flow are annuity investments available in the market today that end upon the death of the investor. But, of course, you wouldn’t know that.
Additionally what you also seem to overlook is that both your minor dependants and spouse are entitled to your Social Security benefits upon your death if the conditions are met.
Yet again you show your complete and utter ignorance of most things.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 3rd, 2012
3:56 pm
JDW: Numbers on the economy expressed, as a percentage of the GDP are quite relevant
——-
Some numbers, yes. Just not the one you brought up.
One might try what you did if one were trying to give a false impression.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
3:59 pm
Nice cherry-picking, JDW.
Except the GOVERNMENT gets to pick the conditions and amounts of the continuation of benefits (if any), NOT YOU.
Another epic fail on your part, sonny.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
4:14 pm
“There are a number so such cash flow are annuity investments available in the market today that end upon the death of the investor.”
And btw, the investor has a choice as to whether he or she wants to invest in those products, JDW.
Social Security and Medicare? Not so much.
Because they are NOT investments, but government programs designed to increase dependency on government.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 3rd, 2012
4:25 pm
The welfare that is sucking the life out of this country is corporate welfare, and the lowering of taxes on the wealthiest to the point where all of the money is funneled up and the ranks of the poor increase, the middle class shrinks.
———–
Perhaps one day a prog will explain how lowering taxes on everyone, and completely removing 50% of us from the federal income tax rolls “funnels money” from the poor to the rich.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 3rd, 2012
4:27 pm
Anyone who thinks SS is an investment is a real tool.
yuzeyurbrane
December 3rd, 2012
4:36 pm
Kyle, one person who is more pragmatic than you on this topic is State House Speaker Ralston. Call it whatever name you want but the fact is this creative financing tactic keeps a lot of hospitals open, especially in rural areas at very little cost to state budget. I would prefer if we could just finance such hospitals out in the open but let’s face it, creative financing is something used regularly by all sorts of entities including the uber-wealthy with the help of their high-powered CPA’s and tax lawyers. At least this is adding to the public good.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
4:38 pm
John Q – lovin’ livin’ in the Obama boom!!!
December 3rd, 2012
4:33 pm
The Tiberius/Lil Bar sock puppet is evidently also a jester
Kyle – I thought calling other bloggers names was against your stated rules of conduct?
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
4:40 pm
@Tiberius…”Because they are NOT investments, but government programs designed to increase dependency on government.”
Rigggghhhhhtttt and I guess the little green men you talk to in your tinfoil hat told you so?
Rocky
December 3rd, 2012
4:42 pm
Regardless of the rules, if namecalling got you banned each time it was done, Kyle would lose half his regulars.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
4:45 pm
Oh yeah, and the “Obama Boom -”
- Another US business fires all it’s workers and slams the doors shut.
- A fresh pallet of Food Stamps hits the floor of the delivery truck.
- Your local hospital’s waiting room collapses from over crowding.
- All the new IRS regulations causes the printing press to explode.
yuzeyurbrane
December 3rd, 2012
4:46 pm
L’il Barry–simple. Now follow this. President X and his party reduce taxes on their supporters over $4 trillion, mostly benefiting the top 2%. Then they lead us into an expensive war costing over $1 trillion and they charge it rather than asking their supporters to pay for it. They plan to further reduce tax rates on their supporters so that when the credit card bill comes due, it is paid more by the middle class than it would have otherwise been if we just were taxed at the time of the war. The poor are poor and that is punishment in itself but they, too, will probably pay more when the credit card bill comes due through a proposed flat income tax plus wildly rising user fees and sales taxes plus cuts in benefits that make it possible to survive. Have you heard of balancing the budget on the backs of the poor and elderly? To that I would most definitely add the shrinking middle class which gets screwed in any event.
ODD OWL
December 3rd, 2012
4:48 pm
Middle class Republicans can come up with all kinds of lame excuses to justify cutting taxes on the richest 2% or attempting to block increases in taxes on the rich, elite Koch Bros. types… Question ??? Are middle class Republicans in favor of their taxes going back up to 39% or do you support president Obama’s plan to keep taxes at the present level on the 98% of middle class and non rich Americans ???
Hillbilly D
December 3rd, 2012
4:48 pm
Regardless of the rules, if name-calling got you banned each time it was done, Kyle would lose half his regulars.
Would that be such a bad thing?
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
4:50 pm
John Q – Why do you feel the need to lawyer up?
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
4:52 pm
What would a lib know about profits?
yuzeyurbrane
December 3rd, 2012
4:53 pm
Tiberius—you fail to mention that SS is about the equivalent of a $650,000 fixed annuity, has a better rate of return and is less risky in its investments. Sounds like a good deal to me. Only problem is that there are a lot of free-loading rich folks who don’t pay FICA taxes on salaries above $110,000 or because, like Mitt Romney, almost all their income is from interest and dividends and therefore subject to no FICA tax at all. How about a flat FICA tax on all income?
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
5:00 pm
John Q – What are you talking about, mam?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 3rd, 2012
5:12 pm
yuzeyurbrane: when the credit card bill comes due, it is paid more by the middle class than it would have otherwise…The poor…will probably pay more when the credit card bill comes due through a proposed flat income tax…Have you heard of balancing the budget on the backs of the poor and elderly?
————————–
There’s just one problem with your explanation–none of that has happened.
Anyone else want to try?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
5:31 pm
“Rigggghhhhhtttt and I guess the little green men you talk to in your tinfoil hat told you so?”
No, JDW, the politicians on the LEFT who run campaigns which attack conservatives for “wanting to take away your Social Security” in every election proves that it isn’t an investment, but a government program intended to make you dependent on government.
It’s called reality, sonny. You should try it sometime.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
5:32 pm
“Tiberius—you fail to mention that SS is about the equivalent of a $650,000 fixed annuity, has a better rate of return and is less risky in its investments.”
Actually, yuz, it isn’t a very good investment at all. I suggest you research Galveston County, TX retirement programs to enlighten yourself.
Dusty
December 3rd, 2012
5:38 pm
Hillbilly, @4:48
You usually make me smile. And..to answer your question: It would be better to rid this blog of name-callers by any way possible since they cannot control themselves. They seem to ignore the subject de jour just to get in derogatory remarks.
Most of them are liberals as you can tell by their own confessions.
Kyle is such a believer in free speech. He seldom rids himself of the buzz flies here. Maybe that is good in the sense that even gadflies have rights and we respect those rights if not the person.
————————
As to the SUBJECT, doctors and ERs send most of the patients to be admitted. Hospitals take the patients that come to them. How can hospitals control the number of Medicaid patients in any way? Or why should they be punished financially for those that do not come to them?
saywhat?
December 3rd, 2012
6:19 pm
So Kyle, is this any different ethically than a direct “tax credit” from the state government which indivuals then spend on private school tuition?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 3rd, 2012
6:23 pm
…is this any different ethically…
——————-
Yes. Tax credits for school choice are out in the open and transparent. Bed taxes are fraud.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 3rd, 2012
6:26 pm
LOL…speaking of fraud, just saw a “man on the street” with someone who had just applied for home heating assistance. She said it was a great deal because “it’s $350 you can use for something else”.
Huh. I thought it was to pay for heating for folks that didn’t have $350.
Scumbag. Wonder who she voted for.
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
6:27 pm
@Tiberius…”the politicians on the LEFT who run campaigns which attack conservatives for “wanting to take away your Social Security” in every election proves that it isn’t an investment, but a government program ”
Only thing that proves is that some of the politicians on the right are out of touch welchers
md
December 3rd, 2012
6:40 pm
“The fee is designed to help level the financial playing field among hospitals, since Medicaid pays less than what it costs to treat patients covered by the plan.”
Seems to me the taxpayer is the one that loses either way. Get matching funds from the feds and it has to come from us through increased federal taxes/fees/borrowing.
Stop the bed tax, and the funds have to come from the State to fund medicaid, and being a balanced budget state, again it will have to come from somewhere…..higher taxes/fees on state income or cuts in spending on other programs.
Pick your poison folks if you want the programs………and no, voting for your neighbor to pay is not a long term solution.
saywhat?
December 3rd, 2012
6:40 pm
To answer Kyle’s question, no the bed tax is not fraud or abuse. It can appear that way, because of the source of money from the initial tax, i.e. hospitals, who also stand to possibly benefit from the matching funds. The thing which makes it NOT a scam is that the money is not directed back to the hospitals in the proportion which is taken. Instead it is distributed based on provision of qualifying services.
If the tax were collected from garbage collection services, or financial transactions, or money taken directly from the states general fund (or anything not related to healthcare), then pooled with matching federal money and distributed to the hospitals/doctors that provided the requisite services, the appearance of a scam would dissappear.
The bed tax is simply that, a tax, paid for by Georgia citizens who are patients, and their insurance companies. The funds generated by that tax are directed toward Medicaid. The source of the tax money is not relevant to the equation, except for those paying it.
ODD OWL
December 3rd, 2012
6:42 pm
The Republican politicians are the perpetrators of fraud… The middle class people who vote for them are dupes… President Obama cut the S.S. payroll FICA tax by 5%… If the Boehner/McConnell shyster Republicans don’t agree to tax increases on the richest 2%, the Obama tax cut on FICA will expire on January 1, 2013
md
December 3rd, 2012
6:43 pm
And the ongoing debate about earnings and wages as a percentage of gdp is bogus….not enough info as to where the profits are going.
Capital expenditures? Cash reserves? Dividends for our 401k’s? etc, etc
Folks need to remember that corps have to stockpile cash in bad times as they don’t get to rob peter to restock the cupboard when it runs dry……they just go bye, bye…..have a Twinkie and think about it.
md
December 3rd, 2012
6:47 pm
And for those that didn’t read the ajc link, the bed tax is a bit like any other socialistic program…..it takes from some hospitals and gives to others, seemingly based on location and clientele…..
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 3rd, 2012
6:48 pm
ODD OWL: If the Boehner/McConnell shyster Republicans don’t agree to tax increases on the richest 2%, the Obama tax cut on FICA will expire on January 1, 2013
———————–
Good. SS taxes are how we fund SS. How do you propose to pay for SS if the tax cut remains in place?
saywhat?
December 3rd, 2012
6:48 pm
lil bush receptacle: “Tax credits for school choice are out in the open and transparent.”
___________________________________________________________________
You fail again, but you are used to it. These tax credits in Georgia are specifically NOT transparent and in the open. The state is FORBIDDEN BY LAW from monitoring or maintaining records of the schools or students who benefit from them. (Just a tip: Our President Obama had nothing to do with this Republican scam.)
md
December 3rd, 2012
6:49 pm
And for those on the left, it’s what your entire ideology is based on, so I’m not quite too sure why some of you object to the practice……
saywhat?
December 3rd, 2012
6:56 pm
“And for those that didn’t read the ajc link, the bed tax is a bit like any other socialistic program…..it takes from some hospitals and gives to others, seemingly based on location and clientele…..”
————————————————————–
Medicaid money is distributed based on provision of services to Medicaid patients. Do you want Medicaid money going to hospitals that DON’T provide services to Medicaid patients? If hosiptals want more of that money, they can market their services to Medicaid patients. Besides, according to conservative dogma, the hospitals don’t REALLY pay the bed fee, their customers do, right? So why are the hospitals complaining?
ODD OWL
December 3rd, 2012
6:59 pm
The hospital bed tax is just another stupid Republican gimmick to raise taxes on the middle class and working class people… Taxes never go down… They get shifted around from the backs of the rich, onto the backs of the non rich… When are you non rich Republicans going to start criticising Nathan “No” Deal and the Republicans who control the state legislature about the astronomically high (10%) unemployment rate in Georgia ??? Jenkins County has the highest unemployment rate in the state at 16.9 %… The Georgia unemployment rate has been above 8% for the 10 years the Republicans have held the Governor’s office and controlled the state legislature… Republicans are a miserable failure…
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
7:00 pm
(Reuters) – The Internal Revenue Service has released new rules for investment income taxes on capital gains and dividends earned by high-income individuals that passed Congress as part of the 2010 healthcare reform law. The 3.8 percent surtax on investment income, meant to help pay for healthcare, goes into effect in 2013. It is the first surtax to be applied to capital gains and dividend income.
And they want more.
md
December 3rd, 2012
7:07 pm
“Do you want Medicaid money going to hospitals that DON’T provide services to Medicaid patients?”
Merely pointing out that it is those hospitals/patients that are doing the paying……..I’m guessing that is “fair” by the definition I see on here every day. In other words, others paying the freight as usual.
md
December 3rd, 2012
7:09 pm
“The hospital bed tax is just another stupid Republican gimmick to raise taxes on the middle class and working class people… Taxes never go down… They get shifted around from the backs of the rich, onto the backs of the non rich… ”
Obviously didn’t read the other link…..the bed tax takes from the “rich” folks hospitals and gives to the “poor” folks hospitals…….and lordy the complaining is still there.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
7:13 pm
When Abraham Lincoln created the Republican Party and freed the slaves, the libs hated him for it. To them, slavery was AWESOME, they could make somebody else tend to their responsibilities while they laid about the plantation, contributing nothing to their own welfare. Somethings never change, do they?
So the libs set about trying to destroy Lincoln’s legacy, they called him gay, said that the Civil War was NOT FOUGHT OVER SLAVERY, blah, blah, blah.
But this smear campaign failed miserably, after all, there are no videos of the Emancipation Proclamation for these filthy people to doctor up.
So now, having been beaten back like rabid dogs -
‘GODFATHER’ LIKENS OBAMA TO LINCOLN…
You gotta admit, these maggots never give up….
Hillbilly D
December 3rd, 2012
7:16 pm
When Abraham Lincoln created the Republican Party and freed the slaves,
Just in the interest of historical accuracy, Abe never freed a single slave. He didn’t actually start the Republican Party, either.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
7:35 pm
The Republican Party first came to power in 1860 with the election of Lincoln to the Presidency and Republicans in control of Congress and again, the Northern states. It oversaw the saving of the union, the end of slavery, and the provision of equal rights to all men in the American Civil War and Reconstruction, 1861-1877.
Go forth and be educated.
Hillbilly D
December 3rd, 2012
7:39 pm
Aesop
The Republican Party was formed in 1864 and the slaves were freed in December of 1865.
Hillbilly D
December 3rd, 2012
7:39 pm
Make that the Republican party was formed in 1854 (typo).
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
7:41 pm
Hillbilly – I never meant to say that Lincoln went around unlocking the cages of every slave in the United States, what are you trying to get at?
Hillbilly D
December 3rd, 2012
7:44 pm
Aesop
That it happened after he was dead. He didn’t free anybody.
Linda
December 3rd, 2012
7:46 pm
Martin Luther King was a Republican & Democrats have always been & are still racists.
http://runslave.blogspot.com/search?q=Martin+Luther+King+Republican
Some of King’s most trustworthy followers have bashed his memory. Blacks vote for Obama & other blacks, despite the content of character & because of the color of their skin. It’s the complete opposite of King’s legacy.
Linda
December 3rd, 2012
7:50 pm
Democrats have always been & are still racists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwqhoVIh65k
Hillbilly D
December 3rd, 2012
7:55 pm
No party or region had a monopoly on racism. It was and is an American problem.
mike
December 3rd, 2012
8:07 pm
MLK was a Republican and Democrats are racists. Linda, you give “crazy” new meaning on this blog. Hey, you know what? I’ve found a way to “burn” ordinary tap water in my car engine.
JamVet
December 3rd, 2012
8:09 pm
Ninety plus percent white and you Republicans are talking about Abraham Lincoln???
Hysterical…
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
8:14 pm
Well, actually, Obama is the one talking about Lincoln. Funny though, considering that Lincoln freed the slaves from bondage only to have the libs and Obama reenslave them to government bondage.
They toil on a new plantation…
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
8:18 pm
A rathole is some crime ridden housing project and a couple hunerd bucks a month, all in exchange for their votes, anything less and the libs could be prosecuted for human trafficking. Let’s call it the minimum wages.
But yet, they libs say they “care.”
JamVet
December 3rd, 2012
8:19 pm
Aesop, you are a Democrat’s dream come true!
Keep up the good work, they are counting on you…
Linda
December 3rd, 2012
8:26 pm
mike(with a little m)@8:07, Didn’t read my sites. Minions only hear, see, & do what monkeys do. Can’t even venture outside their boxes to ascertain the merits of other people’s views. Keeps you guys welded to the liberal agenda, which we, conservatives, consider propaganda.
Expand your horizons. Think for yourself. Don’t just let maturity, thirty years from now, wake you up to being the blind led by the blind.
I’ve been there, done that.
Calling conservatives “crazy” is what liberals do when they don’t read sites, don’t do their own research, can’t comprehend critical thinking & can’t argue with facts. Just attack the messenger, rather than the message. You are nothing more than a wasted statistic & casualty of the liberal agenda that is taking our country into economic oblivion.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
8:29 pm
Does the non sequitur make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, Jamvet?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
8:38 pm
AmVet, you’re an American’s nightmare come true!
CC
December 3rd, 2012
8:43 pm
Aesop’s:
JamVet is always “fuzzy” on issues. Nothing new here . . .
CC
December 3rd, 2012
8:45 pm
mike@8:07:
Linda is correct on all counts. Learn a little before challenging facts!
CC
December 3rd, 2012
8:47 pm
Tiberius:
JamVet is an American?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
8:59 pm
He is, CC, but he just doesn’t think like one anymore.
Sold out his principles to government a long time ago.
JamVet
December 3rd, 2012
9:09 pm
Man, getting you Wingfield Republirubes all riled up is easier than sending Alan West, Joe Walsh, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdoch, George Allen amd Mitt Romney back to the private sector.
But I do confess that I am loving your post election meltdowns. They are even funnier than the pre-election ones.
Stay belligerent, my friends…
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
9:23 pm
When you can’t refute, claim the others are having election meltdowns.
Modus operandi of the terminally ignorant.
Rocky
December 3rd, 2012
9:27 pm
Game, set, match to JamVet….
You have to love the he doesn’t think like one anymore comment. As if there is one way to think….
Hahahahahhaa
You have to love it along with the snarly comments from those melting like cheap candles.
Rocky
December 3rd, 2012
9:30 pm
Well some meltdown regardless, the election just gave it a turbo boost
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
9:31 pm
Does anybody know what Rocky said?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
9:32 pm
“As if there is one way to think…. ”
As to thinking like an American should think, Rocky, this country was founded on freedom, small government, individualism and liberty.
AmVet (and most liberals) possess none of these qualities. So, no, he doesn’t think like a traditional American once thought. Of course now, many Americans don’t think like Americans should, either. Witness the election and re-election of Obama.
Aesop's Fables and other Lib Economic Theories
December 3rd, 2012
9:32 pm
Does Rocky have white powder around the nostrils?
Rocky
December 3rd, 2012
9:34 pm
Tiberius
And that is your opinion and right to have it, but along with $1.00 it will get you a copy of the AJC.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 3rd, 2012
9:40 pm
As is your opinion that game, set and match went to AmVet, Rocky.
The difference is that my opinion is based on reality, not fantasy.
Rocky
December 3rd, 2012
9:58 pm
And if that made you feel a little better about yourself, run Forest run
ODD OWL
December 3rd, 2012
10:08 pm
Non rich Republicans are illin’ ignoramuses…
JDW
December 3rd, 2012
10:16 pm
@Tiberius…”The difference is that my opinion is based on reality, not fantasy.”
The man with the maturity of five year old says as he stamps his feet and holds his breath while clutching his toys yelling MINE MINE MINE.
ODD OWL
December 3rd, 2012
10:21 pm
When the Boehner/McConnell led Republicans push the American economy off the fiscal cliff, their rich, elite Koch Bros. type benefactors will provide golden parachutes for them to land gently… But what about you lower class and middle class non union Republicans, will the corporate bosses provide golden parachutes for you too, or will they allow you to plunge to the depths of the economic abyss ???
Jefferson
December 4th, 2012
6:40 am
You can go forward or be left behind, nothing stay the same.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 4th, 2012
6:50 am
Gotta love the scared little proggies…returning to the Clinton tax rates and taking $100 billion out of their messiah’s $500 billion increase in spending looks like a disaster to them.
Thomas Heyward Jr
December 4th, 2012
6:57 am
Since Wingfeild loves his Washington central planners so much…….he should do his patriotic duty and narc his state out to big brother—————————
.
•Call the Recovery Board Fraud Hotline: 1-877-392-3375 (1-877-FWA-DESK)
•Fax the Recovery Board: 1-877-329-3922 (1-877-FAX-FWA2)
•Write the Recovery Board:
Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board
Attention: Hotline Operators
P.O. Box 27545
Washington, D.C. 20038-7958
.
If you see something……..tell someone.
.
lol
independent thinker
December 4th, 2012
7:32 am
One more socialized medical care scam from the cons Just like Reagan’s EMTALA.
They will run funding of hospital care off the cliff so state pays as little as possible and the Feds keep funding blue state money and insurance money into the red states to cover medical care. Feds should elect to cut off all Medicaid funding to the red states and let them cover their own- Think of the effect on the Deficit? Oh I forgot the cons on the Supreme Court said that would be unfair. No wonder we have such a huge deficit.
Hopeful
December 4th, 2012
7:59 am
I wished we could have Justice in this world but
the whole world is turn into a bunch of crooks
Politicians,doctors, plumbers, electricians you name it your favorite is the Is the people fixed car!!!!!
I wander what God is thinking ??? This world is drained of any hope when it comes to taxes !!!!!
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 4th, 2012
8:05 am
Feds should elect to cut off all Medicaid funding to the red states and let them cover their own
———
No objection here, assuming the taxes collected stay in the states too.
Hopeful
December 4th, 2012
8:06 am
If they start taxing beds in Hospitals they are to just Legalize marijuana and Prostitution
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 4th, 2012
9:17 am
LOL…one of the losers tweeting a question to Obozo on the fiscal cliff complained that middle class tax cuts don’t help her because she doesn’t have a job. A no-doubt Obozo voter.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 4th, 2012
9:27 am
John Q, a sock puppet is an online identity used for deception. Get that through your thick head.
If you wish to keep posting nonsensical drivel, I suggest Bookman’s would be more suitable for your kind.
@@
December 4th, 2012
9:28 am
A deal also ought to end the long-running “bed tax” scam in which states charge hospitals a fee to increase health-care spending and thus their federal matching rate. Then they launder some of the money back to the hospitals to offset the fee. This is real waste, fraud and abuse, not the talking-point version.
This is no different from what the present tax code allows. Just as “the rich” play the odds, so too, do the politicians.
Wealthy Dump Assets Amid Worries About Going Over ‘Cliff’
I’m with Hillbilly Deluxe on this one:
This is just another example of why the entire federal, state and local tax systems to be blown up and started anew.
The simpler, the better. Opportunities for some exist in the maze. Voters get lost in that maze.
They cry after getting the boot
December 4th, 2012
9:40 am
Tiberius
Did you used to post at Bookman’s blog?
Let me guess, you did and left on your own.
CC
December 4th, 2012
9:47 am
Very good read . . .
“The present occupant of the White House, and the party of which he is an iconic if standard feature, was born into and suckled upon the milk of zero-sum economics, perennial class antagonism, class envy, and a neo-feudal status centered mentality of human relations. Like many of his generation and worldview, he is convinced there is a “better world” possible in which humankind can be redeemed and made whole through a moral regeneration imposed by sheer force of will by the state and by the cleansing influence of a purifying ideology. With the dawning of the Obama era, and a renewed animus toward free-market economic relations and the key importance of the individual to a free society, this mentality is in process of arriving at its apogee.”
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/12/the_great_transference.html#ixzz2E5vA4kR3
They cry after getting the boot
December 4th, 2012
9:50 am
CC
Thanks for your not so well disguised post election continued whine.
Stop being bitter and start getting better.
breckenridge
December 4th, 2012
10:07 am
Everywhere I look I see and hear nothing but whining about Medicaid, food stamps and welfare. It’s okay to whine, I suppose, if you propose solutions as well. I certainly don’t have all the answers but I do have one of the answers.
Several months ago the AJC ran an article on the Georgia state prison population. The article stated that 90% of those in Georgia prisons are high school dropouts. That is problematic; high school dropouts cannot make enough money to raise a family. Therefore we need a program that would dispatch a representative of the state to a prison several weeks before an inmate is to be paroled. This representative would offer the inmate to be paroled a cash incentive of $1500, in $20 bills, to get him off to a good start once he is released. All the inmate need do is agree to have a vasectomy. It would be a win-win; the inmate would have a nice chunk of cash to start his new life and the taxpayers would be off the hook from future tax liabilities.
CC
December 4th, 2012
10:55 am
“Thanks for your not so well disguised post election continued whine.”
There’s no “whine” involved: read it or don’t read it. Your opinion, and in fact your existence, means nought to me.
They cry after getting the boot
December 4th, 2012
11:03 am
Cc
Yet you replied
The best lab cases are those that can’t help but whine… It is who they are.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 4th, 2012
11:10 am
You can call it whining when Americans question their government. Know that whatever ypu may call it, t’s going to continue at a time and place and manner of my choosing.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
December 4th, 2012
11:13 am
Why is Obozo trying to pass yet another stimulus?
Dusty
December 4th, 2012
11:22 am
Kyle, hurry up and get back here. Get this show on the road. I got bored this morning and got a laugh by reading Bookman’s commentary on his AJC presentation…. About Petraeus being persuaded one past time to run for the presidency.. What? Another election? No, Bookman was just stiring up some old stuff about Fox News.
But the comments were like watching a rooster fight. KInda like watching AmVet and JohnQ preening their feathers over their mental greatness. Now that is COMIC!
So hurry back with some old jokes,Kyle.. “Old situations” seem to be the style. Did Truman write a fiery note to critics? Was Clinton’s “life style” a copy of Kennedy’s? Was Dolly Madison really a flop at parties? Let’s wring the wrong out of those stories.
Whoohoo and la te dah! Let us be fashionable in the newsworld and dig up some old old “dirt”!!! !And did you know that” Bush did it?”
bluecoat
December 4th, 2012
11:33 am
Obama trying to rescue the nation from the Bush-whacking.
Dusty
December 4th, 2012
11:47 am
Bush fought off the terrorists and saved the country. We were safe.
Now Obama is “saving” the country by piling on debt and driving it over the cliff. The terrorists don’t even have to bother. Self-destruct is the new “mantra” for success. .
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
December 4th, 2012
1:07 pm
“Stop being bitter and start getting better.”
An oft-repeated quote on here made by liberal sock puppets.
They cry after getting the boot
December 4th, 2012
1:14 pm
Then try it sometimes
Real Athens
December 4th, 2012
2:44 pm
“Bush fought off the terrorists and saved the country. We were safe.”
“Whoohoo and la te dah! Let us be fashionable in the newsworld and dig up some old old “dirt”!