Obama’s idea of compromise: All take, no give
I admit that I haven’t been paying too much attention to the certified vote totals from each state in the presidential election, but how did I miss the news that President Obama won 100 percent of the votes in every single state (not just select Philadelphia precincts)?
That’s the only explanation I can conjure for his reported “offer” on the fiscal cliff, via the New York Times:
Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner presented the House speaker, John A. Boehner, a detailed proposal on Thursday to avert the year-end fiscal crisis with $1.6 trillion in tax increases over 10 years, $50 billion in immediate stimulus spending, home mortgage refinancing and a permanent end to Congressional control over statutory borrowing limits.
The proposal, loaded with Democratic priorities and short on detailed spending cuts, met strong Republican resistance. In exchange for locking in the $1.6 trillion in added revenues, President Obama embraced the goal of finding $400 billion in savings from Medicare and other social programs to be worked out next year, with no guarantees.
He did propose some upfront cuts in programs like farm price supports, but did not specify an amount or any details. And senior Republican aides familiar with the offer said those initial spending cuts might be outweighed by spending increases, including at least $50 billion in infrastructure spending, mortgage relief, an extension of unemployment insurance and a deferral of automatic cuts to physician reimbursements under Medicare.
I can just hear Geithner making the offer now: “That’s none for you, a trillion for us; none for you, fifty billion for us; none for you, infinity for us.”
Even assuming the Medicare cuts were to transpire — and the key phrase about that in the Times’ story is “with no guarantees,” which is short-hand for “Democrats are always happy to agree to cuts they have no intention of making” — we are talking $4 in tax increases for, at most, $1 in spending cuts. That’s well past the opposite of the ratio, widely discussed since last year’s debt-ceiling negotiations, of $2.50-$3 in spending cuts for every $1 in tax increases.
If that’s what the American people wanted, we would be calling Nancy Pelosi “Madam Speaker” again. But we’re not. Instead, we have Speaker John Boehner, who has offered to raise revenues by capping deductions in exchange for concrete entitlement reform, and a number of Republican House members and senators who are sticking their necks out to talk about reneging on their no-tax-hikes pledge.
Note to Saxby Chambliss: As long as this is the way the president is talking, there’s really no sense in talking about compromise for the good of the country.
What would be a GOP equivalent to this kind of unserious nonsense? Reason’s Peter Suderman took a pretty good stab at it on Twitter:
Republicans hear Obama’s opening bid, counter with: Eliminate the federal government, except for defense.
Folks, no matter how much you earn, it might be time to sit down and figure out what your household finances are going to look like with Clinton-era tax rates. Because Obama is giving every indication he would rather go over the fiscal cliff than move in anything like the GOP’s direction.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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451 comments Add your comment
Dusty
November 30th, 2012
4:10 pm
Finn hates rich people ’cause he aint one .So obvious!
Del
November 30th, 2012
4:12 pm
Linda@3:40,
Precisely.
carlosgvv
November 30th, 2012
4:12 pm
A few days ago, Obama gave a speech to a room full of middle class working people.
Not to be outdone, the Republicans gave speeches while being surounded by Big Business types.
Cons, how much clearer do the Republicans have make it as to just which group of people they truly care about?
Steve
November 30th, 2012
4:13 pm
I make good money and have no problem with the patriotic duty of paying taxes to support this great nation. Why are rich people such traitors?
Kyle Wingfield
November 30th, 2012
4:13 pm
” Roll Tide and Go JACKETS!!”
That’s it, Buzz Belle. You’re banned from this blog for life.
(J/k)
Linda
November 30th, 2012
4:13 pm
Buzz@3:49, You have bad info. Presidents submit budgets & congress votes on them. Obama’s budgets both in ‘11 & ‘12 were wheeled into the halls of Congress on flat bed carts in huge baxes. They “ran thousands of pages.” I saw them. They were the size of my phone book. This is from the liberal Washington Times.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/may/16/obama-budget-defeated-99-0-senate/
We watched the alphabet evening & late news for decades & CNN for years, until FOX came on the scene. We are still furious that the MSM is biased, corrupt & lies by omission. I tape the Sunday morning political shows & watch MSNBC to keep abreast of what you guys are being fed. I’m a cynic & do my own research. Expand your horizons.
LT Dan
November 30th, 2012
4:14 pm
splavistic:
What compromises did Papa Charlie or any of the Deocrats ever offer?
The first two year when the Democrats controlled both the House and Senate, it was pretty much sit in the back seat and shut up.
After the 2010 mid-terms, what compromises were offered then?
None that I can recall.
Since the Repubs hold the House, what ever they can do to stop PC’s bad policies is OK with me. Let’s go over the cliff together.
Kyle Wingfield
November 30th, 2012
4:14 pm
Hillbilly @ 3:31: That’s a very good point. And a tough nut to crack.
Kyle Wingfield
November 30th, 2012
4:16 pm
Buzz Belle @ 3:22: “This is why Obama rightfully has stated, lets start with what we agree on and go from there.”
Um, except that we don’t all agree on $1.6T in tax hikes and raising the debt ceiling ad infinitum. Or with $50B in new “stimulus.” So, in fact, what Obama’s proposing has nothing that “we [all] agree on.”
Kyle Wingfield
November 30th, 2012
4:17 pm
“one is much much easier for them to reverse.”
Why, Cheesy? Oh, I forgot: Because you said so.
Dusty
November 30th, 2012
4:20 pm
Hilllbilly,4:06
I agree that Petraeus can only blame himself for his actions but it does take “two to tango”and that was the dance.
Lynnie Gal
November 30th, 2012
4:21 pm
The nation is on the side of Obama and Democrats. Republicans lost the argument over taxes and entitlements in the election and in every poll taken since. They are on the losing side of this issue with Americans and with economists. Republicans want to put us all back into a recession showing they don’t care anything about job creation or the economy. See what Rush just said today. He said, “Let’s go over the cliff because Obama doesn’t want a recession.” Obama doesn’t want a recession. Well, neither do the American people.
Stevie Ray...Clowns to my Left and Jokers to my Right here I am....
November 30th, 2012
4:23 pm
Buzz Belle
November 30th, 2012
3:57 pm
If you remain amongst us, I did want to point out that the 400 billion in Medicare spending cuts is..well 40 billion a year..guess how much he wants to spend on stimulus..$50 billion..guess what he needs to spend on doubling of food stamp recipients, finally, funny how the 80 billion tax increase he tacitly agreed to in 2010..oddly correlates to the 80 billion he has already spent on the Unearned Income Tax Credit….
So the net of above is as follows: 80 billion plus 40 billion equals 120 billion a year. Take away 80 billion plus 50 billion…well you see where this is going…
don't eat the sausage
November 30th, 2012
4:24 pm
One point for folks on this blog:
The primary contributor to the current deficit are the Bush tax cuts for the richest.
To hang that on Obama is neither correct nor fair.
One more time:
The main reason that we spend more than we take in is the result of massive tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans that were instituted by George W.
It surprises me that Republicans continue to tout themselves as the party of fiscal responsibility.
Republican tax cuts and two concurrent, massive, and unnecessary wars put us way in the red.
And now you’re attacking a voice that says that we need to take steps to take in more money to pay our bills.
Just another day in the life of a dying ideology, I suppose.
Del
November 30th, 2012
4:28 pm
” The Democrats have offered 400 Billion in cuts as in cutting down the amount of money currently spent.”
The cuts have been previously agreed to and along with these cuts previously agreed to Obama wants a like amount in new stimulus spending. Obama wants to raise taxes on those earning income over 250k and maintain the current rate for those earning less. The revenue realized from this increase would amount to about 802 billion over ten years. The annualized increase would be enough to fund the federal government for 8 days each year for ten years. No one with any ounce of honesty could deny that this increase on Americans in the highest brackets isn’t anything other than symbolic and does nothing to address our debt problem. Obama also wants to postpone addressing spending cuts and entitlement reform until sometime next year and after the the rate increases take effect on higher income earners. Is there anyone here that thinks that this is a fair and reasonable proposal?
Stevie Ray...Clowns to my Left and Jokers to my Right here I am....
November 30th, 2012
4:29 pm
Lynnie Gal
November 30th, 2012
4:21 pm
Hmmm…cerebral thoughts there…sounds like you listen to BIGED..anyhow, why you think that the House GOP’s care about BO’s election victory as if that gives him the upper hand is beyond me..
Both parties got us here…and it doesn’t matter who gets blamed except to the left and right sheep, we should go over the cliff with all vigor…it won’t be gloom doom and despair nor will BO have to continue to go to whats left of our toy manufactuer employees (are they union?) with his crying towel in tow…
Going over will push compromise asap and give this country a real taste of what is reality..we can ill afford to become France despite BO’s hidden agenda…it doesn’t work…nor do we need to go back to Bush’s warmongering (obama’s kinda taken it up a notch) and spending away revenue gains..
I hope my airbag deploys..
Nate Silver
November 30th, 2012
4:30 pm
Dusty
Yes Jessie Jackson Jr is leaving as he should be. If he has done anything illegal he should be indicted and prosecuted.
Don’t forget the 8 Republican House members and 3 Senators who have also had to arrange a U haul to get out of town.
Dusty
November 30th, 2012
4:30 pm
Steve steve steve
You asked,”why are rich people such traitors?” referring to tax payments
You do know that a small percentage of rich people pay a large portion of.the tax money received by the USA?
Go to Google and find the facts. Or, if you prefer, enjoy the bliss of ignorance.
Stevie Ray...Clowns to my Left and Jokers to my Right here I am....
November 30th, 2012
4:33 pm
don’t eat the sausage
November 30th, 2012
4:24 pm
Who cares? So you like the sheep on both sides are preoccupied with who is at fault..they are all at fault…what’s the difference..so you can repeat same crap like those on other side?
Our DEMS and GOP are equally complicit in this cliff thingy which speaks for the growing dysfunctionality of our failed government.
Why not try something creative like developing your very own talking points…??
MarkV
November 30th, 2012
4:35 pm
Dusty @ 3:58 pm
Dusty,
I hope you have done your patriotic duty to help forestall the sinking, as you earlier said you would, even at a cost of pain to your credit card!
Linda
November 30th, 2012
4:36 pm
Buzz@3:57, The Democrats agreed to $3 in spending cuts for every $1 in tax increases under Reagan & $2 in spending cuts for every $1 in tax increases under Papa Bush. The tax increases materialized but we are still waiting on the cuts. Papa Bush lost re-election due to his broken promise on raising taxes. The Republicans won’t sleep with the fleas again.
No, the Democrats are not asking the wealthy to pay more. Taxes are not based on wealth. I don’t know anyone making $250K who is wealthy but plenty who are living paycheck to paycheck. It is servitude to ask anyone to work for the govt. more than 6 months out of the year.
If a sheik from Saudi Arabia offered Obama a check for the amt. of revenue he wants, Obama would still raise taxes. This has nothing to do with taxes or revenues. Obama SAID that it would hurt the economy to raise taxes in this environment & he SAID he knew that raising capital gains taxes has never resulted in higher capital gains revenues.
Republicans have been sitting at the table the entire time Obama has been out campaigning. I can’t see how the Republicans can possibly be blamed for Obama raising taxes on every taxpayer in the US & the country going into another recession, since that has been the Democrats plan from day one.
MarkV
November 30th, 2012
4:37 pm
Dusty @ 4:30 pm
“You do know that a small percentage of rich people pay a large portion of.the tax money received by the USA? “
And why do you think that is, Dusty? Can you answer that simple question?
Steve
November 30th, 2012
4:39 pm
How do you think the rich got where they are? We are not a barren third world country. We are wealthy country where people USED to pay taxes to make this a great country via our infrastructure, our schools and universities, you name it. Taxes provide the foundation for a great society where capitalism can thrive.
The rich are paying the lowest PERCENTAGE of taxes in decades, period. Look, when I made 50K a year, a $1000 expense was a big hit on me. When I make $120K a year, it doesn’t hit me nearly as hard. When you are very wealthy, a FOUR PERCENT INCREASE IN TAXES does NOT EVEN AFFECT YOU.
Dusty
November 30th, 2012
4:42 pm
Nate Silver,
I believe that Jesse Jackson Jr. was being investigated before he became ill about his requests to the former governor Blogoyovich in reference to the seat left by then Sen Obama.. But I made no reference to that. You brought up investigation.
I’m not surprised when some people are not elected to their previous jobs in Washington. Of course they leave. But I was listing the ones who decide on their own that it is time to leave.. There is a difference.
Dusty
November 30th, 2012
4:46 pm
MarkV
I can answer your question but Steve can’t. Maybe you should talk to him.
Nate Silver
November 30th, 2012
4:47 pm
Dusty
Obama was indicted for what?
Again, if Jessie is found to have broke the law. I have no problem with him being indicted and prosecuted. I could be wrong but he probably left because the heat is on him at this point.
On the Republican side, they were not given a chose. It was decided for them, but I got you on those who decided in terms of Jessie and the others.
Linda
November 30th, 2012
4:48 pm
don’t@4:24, You win the prize for the most uninformed, misinformed minion on this blog for the day. There were no Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. The Bush tax cuts brought in the highest revenues in the history of the country. Obama added more to the natl. debt that the 1st 42 presidents & he added more in less than 4 yrs. than Bush did in 8 yrs. Obama’s proposal does not reduce current or future deficits.
getalife
November 30th, 2012
4:53 pm
w was a disaster. Period..
Black Label
November 30th, 2012
4:53 pm
Linda
Comparing tax revenue percentages vs GDP, they went up how high after the Bush tax cuts?
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=205
Average during Bush years was no higher than the previous 8.
Steve
November 30th, 2012
4:53 pm
Linda, do you live in some Fox News fantasy world bubble? You were probably one of the posters in here loudly proclaiming that the polls showed a Romney victory too (wink).
getalife
November 30th, 2012
4:54 pm
w lost two occupations, collapsed our economy and exploded our deficit. Facts.
Stevie Ray...Clowns to my Left and Jokers to my Right here I am....
November 30th, 2012
4:55 pm
Steve
November 30th, 2012
4:39 pm
Hate to break this to you but the “rich” pay the lions share of the taxes. Let’s start out with the bottom 47% who pay no taxes…some because they are in military, retired or the like…many of course who get a check every april when the rest of us pay.
OK, so the bottom 50% pay 2.3% of taxes…(you would think they could come up with 25 bucks or something).
The top 25% get 66% of the income and pay 87.3% of all taxes…it gets better, the top 5% get 31% of the income yet pay 60% of the taxes..the top 1% get 17% of the income and pay 37% of the taxes….all of this according to the genius’ at the IRS.
BTW, there is no meaningful evidence that suggests that increasing taxes raises revenue…since President Trillions will spend a $1.50 (it appears) for every dollar of new revenue……what if the tax increases don’t produce any new revenue? Will he proceed with his cuts? Who cares, they won’t materialize regardless..
Linda
November 30th, 2012
4:55 pm
Steve@4:39, Can you prove that a family of 4, making $250,000/yr., taking care of elderly parents, sending kids to college, etc. has a dime in the bank, especially if they are self-employed & pay for their own health care & retirement out of their own pockets, especially is their rent is $4000 per month & their local & state taxes are 10%?
getalife
November 30th, 2012
4:56 pm
Pelosi is going to force a house vote on the Senate’s middle class tax cut to end the bs.
Tell your failed gop to vote yes and get out of the way of business.
Lou
November 30th, 2012
4:57 pm
I just don’t understand why liberals do not look at the actual numbers. The $1.6 Trillion in revenue is spread out over 10 years. The budget deficit is $1 Trillion per year. That is a yearly deficit. The extra revenue is 16% of the shortage. Where is the rest coming from???? Without servicing the current debt, that adds another $3.5 Trillion to the debt as we climb to $20 Trillion. That does not even include the interest on the current debt. When the FED stops artificially keeping rates down, we are blowing up. Raise taxes if you want but where is the rest of the money coming from?
MarkV
November 30th, 2012
4:57 pm
Dusty @4:46 pm
“I can answer your question …”
Why don’t you?
Steve
November 30th, 2012
4:59 pm
Linda, a family making 250K a year can make lifestyle choices and live comfortably. Please, stop with the insanity.
Del
November 30th, 2012
5:00 pm
w was a disaster. Period.
Get, I was hoping we could have said Obama “was” a disaster but now we’ll have to wait four more years to say so. Of course we can now say that he is a disaster.
getalife
November 30th, 2012
5:02 pm
Del,
I will compare our President’s accomplishments to w’s any time.
Steve
November 30th, 2012
5:03 pm
How is Obama a disaster? We’re not stuck in failing wars, our economy continues to mend (from your team’s disaster), and the future continues to look brighter with the advent of a mini oil boom we are going to reap financial benefits from.
getalife
November 30th, 2012
5:04 pm
Why in the world do you cons fight for the wealthy when you are broke?
It does not make sense.
Madmax
November 30th, 2012
5:05 pm
Buzz Belle
Everyone can agree on balanced – like phase in the reevenue increases at the same rate that the cuts occur. That is balanced. That is not what the president did. He said increase taxes now and we’ll find some accountant to play with the numbers. Can you show me where the $400 billion in cuts are coming from or are they just reductions in the rate of growth in which case they are not reductions they are phony (aka a LIE). Also $400 billion in cuts versus $1.6 trillion in tax hikes? That is what you call BALANCED? Sick!
JF McNamara
November 30th, 2012
5:05 pm
@Kyle,
This is a good read.
http://swampland.time.com/2012/11/30/how-to-negotiate/?hpt=hp_t1
Linda
November 30th, 2012
5:06 pm
Black@4:52, As high as 18.5% in ‘07 with a higher GDP AND lower unemployment rates.
The fact is that the Bush tax cuts DID NOT cause the economy to tank OR cause the deficits.
It’s the spending, stupid.
Stevie Ray...Clowns to my Left and Jokers to my Right here I am....
November 30th, 2012
5:07 pm
Black Label
November 30th, 2012
4:53 pm
Good point..this even despite anemic GDP. However, this relationship is IMO a red herring once I did below the surface..everyone has gotten poorer over the past several years with median household incomes falling $4500. According to the IRS, the number of millionaires tax payments have plummeted from 2008-2011…in 2007 there were 390,000 filers with AGI over $1mil..in 2009 there were 237,000 filers. In 2007 this group paid 309 billion in taxes…in 2009 they paid 178 billion a decline of 42%.
The millionaires club fluctuates as many sell a business or otherwise don’t stay in the club year after year. the permanent players income is mostly cap gains and dividends.. there are always 3 sides of a story.
getalife
November 30th, 2012
5:07 pm
Steve,
Not just oil, natural gas and other alternatives too.
Energy jobs.
Madmax
November 30th, 2012
5:07 pm
getalife – because we do not trust politicians. If you give them a dollar, they will spend it 5 times and promise to pay it back later. Eventually, we will all have to pay off the debt and jsut giving them money that they will pi$$ away makes no sense.
getalife
November 30th, 2012
5:08 pm
Linda,
Did you yell about spending when w had a rubber stamp congress to explode our deficit from a surplus?
getalife
November 30th, 2012
5:11 pm
Madmax,
Thank you for your honest supply.
The spending message was heard and being addressed.
We balanced our budget before but the gop blew it.
Don't Tread
November 30th, 2012
5:11 pm
“Raise taxes if you want but where is the rest of the money coming from?”
Well the short answer is they will demand another tax increase while promising spending cuts, which will never happen (again). Repeat ad infinitum, or at least until equality of outcome is achieved.
And in the meantime, there’s always carbon taxes, wealth taxes, energy taxes, VATs, and about a billion other taxes (scams) Democrats can think of to separate the productive from their money.