Obama’s idea of compromise: All take, no give
I admit that I haven’t been paying too much attention to the certified vote totals from each state in the presidential election, but how did I miss the news that President Obama won 100 percent of the votes in every single state (not just select Philadelphia precincts)?
That’s the only explanation I can conjure for his reported “offer” on the fiscal cliff, via the New York Times:
Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner presented the House speaker, John A. Boehner, a detailed proposal on Thursday to avert the year-end fiscal crisis with $1.6 trillion in tax increases over 10 years, $50 billion in immediate stimulus spending, home mortgage refinancing and a permanent end to Congressional control over statutory borrowing limits.
The proposal, loaded with Democratic priorities and short on detailed spending cuts, met strong Republican resistance. In exchange for locking in the $1.6 trillion in added revenues, President Obama embraced the goal of finding $400 billion in savings from Medicare and other social programs to be worked out next year, with no guarantees.
He did propose some upfront cuts in programs like farm price supports, but did not specify an amount or any details. And senior Republican aides familiar with the offer said those initial spending cuts might be outweighed by spending increases, including at least $50 billion in infrastructure spending, mortgage relief, an extension of unemployment insurance and a deferral of automatic cuts to physician reimbursements under Medicare.
I can just hear Geithner making the offer now: “That’s none for you, a trillion for us; none for you, fifty billion for us; none for you, infinity for us.”
Even assuming the Medicare cuts were to transpire — and the key phrase about that in the Times’ story is “with no guarantees,” which is short-hand for “Democrats are always happy to agree to cuts they have no intention of making” — we are talking $4 in tax increases for, at most, $1 in spending cuts. That’s well past the opposite of the ratio, widely discussed since last year’s debt-ceiling negotiations, of $2.50-$3 in spending cuts for every $1 in tax increases.
If that’s what the American people wanted, we would be calling Nancy Pelosi “Madam Speaker” again. But we’re not. Instead, we have Speaker John Boehner, who has offered to raise revenues by capping deductions in exchange for concrete entitlement reform, and a number of Republican House members and senators who are sticking their necks out to talk about reneging on their no-tax-hikes pledge.
Note to Saxby Chambliss: As long as this is the way the president is talking, there’s really no sense in talking about compromise for the good of the country.
What would be a GOP equivalent to this kind of unserious nonsense? Reason’s Peter Suderman took a pretty good stab at it on Twitter:
Republicans hear Obama’s opening bid, counter with: Eliminate the federal government, except for defense.
Folks, no matter how much you earn, it might be time to sit down and figure out what your household finances are going to look like with Clinton-era tax rates. Because Obama is giving every indication he would rather go over the fiscal cliff than move in anything like the GOP’s direction.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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451 comments Add your comment
Centrist
November 30th, 2012
12:14 pm
The debate over taxes is no longer about increasing revenue, but who wins the way we get there. Obama/Democrats want it via tax RATES, and Boehner/Republicans want it via limiting deductions and credits.
A little of both is the most logical, but politics is about in your face slap downs – until the last minute for politicians. Just look at the hard line posts here to see how partisans NEVER compromise.
Stephenson Billings
November 30th, 2012
12:14 pm
And don’t forget that Obama said himself that tax increases were not about revenue, but “fairness”.
Linda
November 30th, 2012
12:14 pm
Someone compared the Democrats’ offer to the Republicans to the BIG GAME tomorrow. It would be like the GA Bulldogs asking the Crimson Tide to give the Bulldogs 4 touchdowns & the SEC Championship with the promise that the Bulldogs would discuss the possibility of letting the Tide ride the bus to Atlanta some time next year.
stands for decibels
November 30th, 2012
12:16 pm
Give you a hint, he also said “ask not what your country can do for you
oy to the vey. You’re spamming with this over at Kyle’s now?
JFK lowered top marginal tax rates (well LBJ actually did, JFK was murdered before he could sign the bill) all the way down to 70%.
You hoping people don’t know that, when you quote JFK?
JDW
November 30th, 2012
12:16 pm
@Kyle…”Instead, we have Speaker John Boehner, who has offered to raise revenues by capping deductions in exchange for concrete entitlement reform, and a number of Republican House members and senators who are sticking their necks out to talk about reneging on their no-tax-hikes pledge.”
You think that is a serious offer? That is BS and Obama is right to ignore them.
The Republicans need to move off of Romney light and start talking about higher rates for incomes over 250K, higher capital gains rates, no more carried interest and limited deductions. At that point the subject of spending cuts can be entered into the equation.
stands for decibels
November 30th, 2012
12:17 pm
And don’t forget that Obama said himself that tax increases were not about revenue, but “fairness”.
I’m perfectly comfy with that notion, myself. If the markets aren’t going to self-correct so that wealth doesn’t continue to redistribute upwards, it’s the responsibility of the governed to step in.
Glenn Beck
November 30th, 2012
12:17 pm
Stevie
You don’t know me and quit deflecting… You blather and blather…. Same on Bookmans blog..
Looking at historical rates your 250k “soaked” comment is bs and you know it.
Clinton rates and cuts across the board…. If you can show where I said anything different, put up or …….
Good day
Will
November 30th, 2012
12:19 pm
Republican newspaper writers and republican tv/radio entertainers need to get over it – they lost, and lost big time.
Lost the popular vote by more than 4,000,000 votes. Lost the Electoral vote by more than 100 votes and, with a switch of less than 100,000 votes, would have also won at least two additional states. Lost two seats in the senate when EVERYONE thought the republicans would either increase their numbers to a minium of 49 or more like become the majority party in the Senate. They lost eight seats in the House and only held on to the House because republicans were able to draw congressional districts to their favor. THEY COULD NOT EVEN BEAT GEORGIA REPRESENTATIVE BARROW AFTER DRAWING A CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT THAT ANY REPUBLICAN WHO COULD FOG A MIRROR COULD HAVE WON!!!
Republicans are moving toward choosing to protect the tax rates of the zillionaires while EVERY CREDIBLE poll of the American public shows that is the exact opposite of what the American public wants.
As soon as the republicans cave in, they can move to the next subject – immigration reform, where republicans have decided that their message has always been right, it’s just the delivery of the message needs to be softened. So…..republicans will continue to tell Hispanics to go to hell but now will smile when doing so!! Republicans don’t even realize that republican “Show us your papers” laws are much more dispised in the Hispanic community than current immigration laws.
Be truthful, if someone had bet you you one year ago today that the President would easily be re-elected, that democrats would increase their majority in the Senate and that republicans would hang on to their majority in the House only by having the good fortune of being able to re-draw congressional districts, would you have taken that bet?
Me too.
Stevie Ray...Clowns to my Left and Jokers to my Right here I am....
November 30th, 2012
12:20 pm
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 30th, 2012
12:03 pm
Warren Buffet gets all his revenue from dividend income…he also ignores the corporate tax when he says he pays less than his secretary. the reason cap gains and dividends are taxed at a lower rate is because they are already taxed at the corporate level of 35% ergo the real cap gains tax is 44%…
I think the uber rich should pay more but the level should be kept at the 80 billion a year previously agreed as opposed to the ridiculous opening salvo of DEMS..cuts alone wont’ get us out but the Simpson Bowles plan will…
Lets go off the cliff..bearing in mind that if it happens, no party has less cupability than the other..they both agreed to this debacle.
Logical Dude
November 30th, 2012
12:21 pm
Kyle responds: Do you think Geithner hatched this plan on his own and took it to the GOP,
Well, with Obama not doing it, it’s hard for me to tell
Plus, with both sides playing politics with the country’s financial health, it would be good to see some common sense results:
Reset taxes to clinton era, since the “Bush/Obama” tax cuts had expiration dates and were meant to be temporary (as I see it, for political gain).
Cut defense deeply. No reason we need 8 (not sure if I exaggerate or not) Intelligence communities in this country. (NSA, CIA, FBI, DHS, etc etc) Really, we don’t need a whole intelligence infrastructure spying on everything we do every day online.
Make common sense cuts to Medicare and Social Security, whether that means increasing the payroll cap, increasing the retirement age, or adjusting annual growth, solutions are there and have been debated ad nauseum.
Otherwise, can we all get a number on how much extra revenue comes from the tax hikes and/or fiscal cliff? I hear huge numbers, then I hear people say that the numbers are barely a drop in the bucket, so why bother. The numbers should make a dent in the fiscal health of the country, and along with common sense spending reductions, we can get there.
Oh, and get more people working to increase revenues there too.
stands for decibels
November 30th, 2012
12:21 pm
sticking their necks out to talk about reneging on their no-tax-hikes pledge
this what passes for political bravery in 2012? A willingness to throw Grover Flippin’ Norquist under the bus?
Who had died and made THAT guy king, anyway?
Glenn Beck
November 30th, 2012
12:22 pm
And little Stevie
When talking about taxes make sure you also compare GDP and tax revenues percentages as well as what the deductions were or were not when speaking of rates during any given time period…
You will appear to be more informed if you do…..
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 30th, 2012
12:23 pm
I see Bill O’Reilly is spouting off his War on Christmas BS again.
Stevie Ray...Clowns to my Left and Jokers to my Right here I am....
November 30th, 2012
12:24 pm
Glenn Beck
November 30th, 2012
12:17 pm
You are correct, I was in error lumping you in the category in the last paragraph of my post..I’m owe you an apology for that..
However, why not provide some substance in terms of discounting what you call “blather”? Makes this debate more interesting to actually debate based on contasting data than simply discounting what another says…??
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 30th, 2012
12:25 pm
Lets go off the cliff..bearing in mind that if it happens, no party has less cupability than the other..they both agreed to this debacle.
I agree lets go.
If thats the only way we can cut out of control Military spending and raise taxes im all for it.
SBinF
November 30th, 2012
12:26 pm
The GOP made its bed. They refused to compromise with Obama the previous two years. They opted to kick the can down the road. They figured Obama would get demolished in the election and they could look forward to a Republican presidential administration. Their plan went down in flames, now they’re crying about compromise?
Sigh, Kyle you’re nothing if not consistent.
SBinF
November 30th, 2012
12:26 pm
Its funny, the only time Republicans care about compromising is when they have no leverage.
SBinF
November 30th, 2012
12:30 pm
“Instead, we have Speaker John Boehner, who has offered to raise revenues by capping deductions in exchange for concrete entitlement reform, and a number of Republican House members and senators who are sticking their necks out to talk about reneging on their no-tax-hikes pledge.”
So your idea of compromise is Boehner agreeing to a plan that was first put forward by the failed GOP presidential candidate?
Lol, it looks doubly silly when you read it again.
getalife
November 30th, 2012
12:30 pm
grover is just one lobbyist but shows how weak the gop are for being scared of one lobbyist.
I have never seen the gop so weak, so lost and so leaderless.
They have no idea what to do and lash out over our President opening position that is not new.
Stephenson Billings
November 30th, 2012
12:30 pm
“I’m perfectly comfy with that notion, myself. If the markets aren’t going to self-correct so that wealth doesn’t continue to redistribute upwards, it’s the responsibility of the governed to step in.”
Unless you’re on the “losing” end of course…. might as well just move to China. Afterall, statism is only 1 execution away from utopia….
JDW
November 30th, 2012
12:34 pm
@Stevie Ray…”Warren Buffet gets all his revenue from dividend income…he also ignores the corporate tax when he says he pays less than his secretary. the reason cap gains and dividends are taxed at a lower rate is because they are already taxed at the corporate level of 35% ergo the real cap gains tax is 44%…”
Boy do you need an education. First off almost every penny of Buffet’s gains come from the appreciation of Berkshire stock not dividends, though there are some in there.
Second capital gains are taxed in no way at the corporate level. A capital gain is the difference between what you paid and what you get when it is sold. Taxes are levied at the point of sale on the seller the corporation is not involved.
Dividends are paid after corporate taxes and while the top rate is 35% the average rate paid by US corps last year was around 12%…nobody pays 35.
Glenn Beck
November 30th, 2012
12:35 pm
If lower rates is all it takes to increase revenue, why is that not reflected when looking at GDP and tax revenue percentages on a historical scale?
Look it up, the percentages against GDP are marginal and not always higher when taxes were lowered.
Doesn’t mean that we tax folks into oblivion, however it does show that there is much hyperbole on both sides of the issue
Matz
November 30th, 2012
12:35 pm
Its funny, the only time Republicans care about compromising is when they have no leverage.
Indeed. It would be downright hilarious, if they weren’t cashing such huge paychecks, reaping the rewards of the enormous personal opportunities that come with their positions, and enjoying a lifetime of benies and perks for standing on fabricated sanctimonious principles while throwing the American people under the bus. We already bought the wars, and the surplus is gone. Now we have to PAY for what we already bought on credit. All those who got filthy rich off their defense contractor stock from those wars should be paying triple the tax rate!
Kyle Wingfield
November 30th, 2012
12:38 pm
SBinF @ 12:30: “So your idea of compromise is Boehner agreeing to a plan that was first put forward by the failed GOP presidential candidate?”
No, Romney’s plan was to reduce deductions and rates at the same time, making it revenue-neutral. Boehner is offering just to cap deductions, raising revenue. So, there’s several hundred billion dollars’ worth of difference between the two plans.
Stevie Ray...Clowns to my Left and Jokers to my Right here I am....
November 30th, 2012
12:39 pm
Glenn Beck
November 30th, 2012
12:22 pm
I have looked at % of GDP of tax revenues..the disappearing number of millionaires since 2006 has resulted in a drop of 42% in total taxes they paid…point here is that if you reduce the amount of millioinaires…tax reciepts will decrease..this goes a long way to explaining why revenues have sunk to 15 % of GDP in recent years..
Our system doesn’t even raise taxes efficiently. in 2009 reciepts averaged barely 15% of GDP, With spending closer to 25% of GDP…no workie. Leaving rates as is or cutting them historically offers best odds of growing economy..opinions of all sorts are offered by all sides..IMO spending is unsustainable..period..if we increase tax revenue, historically it has been offset by new spending..can’t have both..
Jarvis Murray
November 30th, 2012
12:39 pm
We all understand the fiscal cliff, and the lack of leadership from the White House…. but can you just write a sports blog about what you expect from the Dawgs game tomorrow? I’m not sure there has been enough coverage of the game…
Stevie Ray...Clowns to my Left and Jokers to my Right here I am....
November 30th, 2012
12:41 pm
KYLE
What did you think about the dysfunctionality of BO as well as congress as portrayed by Woodwards’ Price of Politics?
Eye opening lack of presidential leadership as well as GOP/DEM leadership in congress…
Stevie Ray...Clowns to my Left and Jokers to my Right here I am....
November 30th, 2012
12:43 pm
Glenn Beck
November 30th, 2012
12:35 pm
I’m with you on last point…in the words of Mark Knopfler….”two men say they’re Jesus, one of them must be wrong..” (Industrial Disease)…I’m of the impression that there are not things as facts when coming from the mouths of politicians or biased economists..
Cherokee
November 30th, 2012
12:44 pm
Sorry, Kyle, but you and your myrmidons here are just silly, and should be ignored.
Obama proposed a $4 trillion reduction in the deficit, along the lines of what he ran on – and the voters overwhelmingly approved.
He’s doing the job we elected him to do. If the Repubs want to propose something different, fine, have at it. But don’t whine that Obama isn’t playing fair somehow because he makes a proposal that is similar to what the people voted for.
Sick of Progs
November 30th, 2012
12:45 pm
The republicans should give the dem’s and open ticket to increases, tell the american people that this is what they voted for, and sit back and watch O’budgetless and his american hating cronies turn us into greece or spain. Then maybe a majority of americans may 180 back to fiscal responsibility.
Glenn Beck
November 30th, 2012
12:45 pm
Kyle
The post about GOP banking on a Romney win has merit. That doesn”t absolve Obama and the Dems, but if the GOP House was as confident as the talk and radio show host they pander to as well as the right wing blogging world, they thought they would be dealing with Romney..
Elections do have consequences and while the House is Repub and have power in that regard, time to play ball.
You are kidding yourself had Romney won, that the GOP House wouldn’t be pressing the Senate and reminding them of the election and who held the upper hand come Jan.
tiredofIT
November 30th, 2012
12:49 pm
Tax all of income as ordinary income!
Sick of Progs
November 30th, 2012
12:50 pm
Matz
November 30th, 2012
12:35 pm
Its funny, the only time Republicans care about compromising is when they have no leverage.
Indeed. It would be downright hilarious, if they weren’t cashing such huge paychecks, reaping the rewards of the enormous personal opportunities that come with their positions, and enjoying a lifetime of benies and perks for standing on fabricated sanctimonious principles while throwing the American people under the bus. We already bought the wars, and the surplus is gone
Would you like to see a list of Geithner’s buddy recipients of the great bailout or Obama donor paybacks under the green energy handout program? I though not…
Furnishmerchant
November 30th, 2012
12:54 pm
This posing and posturing over the Cliff is silly and, worse yet, boring. Negotiating a grand bargain like trying to nail jello to the wall. Why don’t the leadership of each body, one Republican one Democrat, agree to allow four very simple bills to reach their floors for up or down votes without amendments on the record? Each would pose a simple question: (1) Let the tax increases on the rich (from the Bush levels) kick in? (2) Let the tax increases on everyone else to kick in? (3) Let the military spending cuts kick in? (4) Let the other spending cuts kick in?
Glenn Beck
November 30th, 2012
12:56 pm
Sick
Provide that list as well as a list of Republican Governors, House and Senate members who still cry about the stimulus yet had their hand in that stimulus cookie jar.
Start with Gov Perdue
Thought so
getalife
November 30th, 2012
12:57 pm
Your speaker gave up.
Surrendered.
You need some leaders like Cole cons.
getalife
November 30th, 2012
1:00 pm
The gop said no to a tax cut and wants to add regulations.
Downright liberal and totally bizarre.
Just pass the middle class tax cut and walk away gop to lose the house in 14.
You got owned.
Tealiban Party
November 30th, 2012
1:02 pm
If Americans wanted what the Republicans are peddling, then we would be talking about President-elect Romney.
SBinF
November 30th, 2012
1:02 pm
Kyle, it’s taking Romney’s plan. You want Boehner and Obama to compromise by taking Romney’s plan. What is it exactly that the Republicans are giving up in that case?
Rightwing Troll
November 30th, 2012
1:04 pm
Nice whining…
Six months ago Obama approached Boner with his hat in his hand and requested a 10:1 exchange, Boner walked out…
Now that you retarded wingnuts lost the election by a landslide, the shoe is on the other foot… lets go over the cliff together. I don’t mind a little tax rate increase, it won’t hurt me much. And we have to pay for all of W’s unfunded, ill fated wars and entitlements somehow… I just wish we could somehow force those of you who voted for Dumya twice, to have to pay double the increase we’ll all have to pay.
How’s that living a life in denial thingy working out for ya?…
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 30th, 2012
1:05 pm
Tax increases on the productive is the Viagra of the left.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 30th, 2012
1:05 pm
Would you like to see a list of Geithner’s buddy recipients of the great bailout or Obama donor paybacks under the green energy handout program?
Would love to see it.
Steve
November 30th, 2012
1:06 pm
1. The rich are paying the lowest taxes in decades and government is starving.
2. Historically, the country thrives when the middle class is strong and the wealthier pay higher taxes. This worked under Ike, and under Clinton. And under Saint Ronnie (50% tax rate).
3. Cut spending, look at the military industrial complex! That is where we waste BILLIONS
4. Social Security is FUNDED – leave that alone
5. cut Medicare so old folks have to eat cat food to afford their prescriptions? Really?
Kyle Wingfield
November 30th, 2012
1:07 pm
No, SBinF, it’s not. Revenue-neutral is not the same thing as increasing revenues by hundreds of billions of dollars. Keeping the tax burden the same on the wealthy is not the same thing as increasing it. The plans follow a similar philosophy — that it’s preferable to remove distortions from the tax code — but the end results are very different.
Rightwing Troll
November 30th, 2012
1:08 pm
Or we could increase the rates for the 2% and then offer them a deduction of the same percentage if they actually DID produce some jobs…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 30th, 2012
1:08 pm
The whine from the right will only get louder as we approach the end of the filibuster as well.
mwuahahahahahahaha.
I’ll bring the cheese to enjoy with this whine.
mike
November 30th, 2012
1:08 pm
How much more tax would you pay if ALL the Bush tax cuts expire? If the Bush tax cuts expire on those making $250,000 or more? Use this calculator to find out. I already put some data in to get you started. Change the data for your situation.
http://interactive.taxfoundation.org/taxcalc/#calculator
Kyle Wingfield
November 30th, 2012
1:09 pm
Troll @ 1:04: “Six months ago Obama approached Boner with his hat in his hand and requested a 10:1 exchange, Boner walked out…”
Let’s see some proof that deal was offered. I think you’re referring to the silly debate question asked of the GOP presidential candidates a year or so ago, where everyone responded just as you’d expect in a moment made for stagecraft.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 30th, 2012
1:09 pm
Cherokee: Sorry, Kyle, but you and your myrmidons here are just silly, and should be ignored.
———–
And yet, here you are. Perhaps you should take your own advice. Go ahead, we’ll wait while you change your sockpuppet.
Jefferson
November 30th, 2012
1:10 pm
Outgrow your selfish ways and you won’t be so mad.