A question for those who say expanding Medicaid is a no-brainer
Liberal think tanks and columnists have been cranking out the arguments about why a state like Georgia would be foolish to reject Obamacare’s expansion of Medicaid. The expansion, which was made optional for states in the Supreme Court’s June ruling upholding the bulk of the law, would cost Georgia an estimated $2.5 billion over 10 years, according to state officials. Gov. Nathan Deal has said our state will not participate, but Obamacare supporters are trying to pressure him to change his mind.
Proponents of the expansion say hospitals and doctors in the state would receive an additional $33 billion in federal funds during that time frame. To hear them tell it, this is tantamount to finding $33 billion in between the couch cushions; they never mention whose pockets it’s falling from.
“The economics of this are very strongly in favor of adopting the expansion,” said John Holahan, study co-author and director of health policy research at the Urban Institute, in a recent AJC story. Holahan’s study puts the total federal cost of expanding Medicaid via Obamacare at $952 billion over 10 years if all 50 states participate. That’s a 26 percent increase on top of what’s already one of the federal government’s fastest-growing budget items. And, for you non-math majors, that comes out to $95.2 billion per year on average.
But here’s my question: Where do we find another $95.2 billion per year in a Washington that is currently:
- running annual deficits of at least $1 trillion;
- trying desperately to avoid an automatic spending cut (the “sequester” portion of the fiscal cliff) that would shave about $133 billion per year on average (over the next nine years);
- and discussing tax increases on “the rich” that would raise, at most, $160 billion per year?
No one in Washington seems to be talking seriously about deeper spending cuts or sharper tax increases than these, so we are talking about continuing to run annual deficits of well over half a trillion dollars before tacking on $95.2 billion in new Medicaid spending.
And remember: This is just the Medicaid portion of Obamacare. We’re not talking about subsidies for the federal exchanges or new costs for long-term care.
Why is it that none of the “found money” advocates ever explain how we’re going to pay for this new spending? Or do they think Georgia taxpayers will truly believe someone else will handle that federal portion of the cost?
– By Kyle Wingfield
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308 comments Add your comment
Hillbilly D
November 27th, 2012
12:32 pm
Whether money is federal, state, or local, it all comes from the same place. It just having money in a different pocket. Most folks don’t understand that. You hear it all the time on the local level; “we can get a grant for that”.
You’re still paying for it, either way.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 27th, 2012
12:48 pm
Why is it that none of the “found money” advocates ever explain how we’re going to pay for this new spending?
———–
Because Obozo’s parasite base is all on the “taking” side of the equation.
Stop being such worthless, thieving scum, Obozobots!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 27th, 2012
12:59 pm
Lucky for the rest of us, you Cons are holding less and less power in the USA.
Centrist
November 27th, 2012
1:00 pm
It is not just “Liberal think tanks and columnists” pushing for Georgia to expand Medicaid – but the editors and journalists of your AJC employer: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/medicaid-expansion-would-bring-state-33-billion-co/nTGBJ/
Increased spending is the liberal mantra, even during the “fiscal cliff” negotiations.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 27th, 2012
1:01 pm
Kyle wrote: tax increases on “the rich” that would raise, at most, $160 billion per year
http://www.alternet.org/economy/ten-numbers-rich-would-fudged
The world derivatives market is estimated to be worth over a quadrillion dollars (a thousand trillion). At least $200 trillion of that is in the United States. In 2011 the Chicago Mercantile Exchange reported a trading volume of over $1 quadrillion on 3.4 billion annual contracts.
A quadrillion dollars. A sales tax of ONE-TENTH OF A PENNY on a quadrillion dollars could pay off the deficit. But the total sales tax was ZERO.
HDB
November 27th, 2012
1:02 pm
When CEO’s cry that the way to balance the budget is to cut social spending while simultaneously cutting business taxes….you wonder who the parasites really are!
How to get $100B…..eliminate the Bush tax cuts for everyone, merge governmental departments in Defense like procurement…….eliminate the overlap….eliminate the subsidies to big oil , agribusiness, and to business….then do a cost/benefit analysis to see where additional savings cvan occur!! That’s a start!!
Jefferson
November 27th, 2012
1:05 pm
Taxes is where the money comes from, what do you think they are for ? Follow the money if you have a problem with the costs, thats where the devil lives.
southpaw
November 27th, 2012
1:05 pm
Gov. Deal states that Georgia can’t afford the 10% share of the funding that would be required in three years. Here’s an idea for getting around that (turn on your irony meter, folks; I realize this would never work. It’s tongue-in-cheek food for thought). How about we participate for the three years that the federal government pays for its own idea, and then, when it starts becoming a partly unfunded mandate, we opt out?
(turn irony meter off)
It’s actually pretty clever. Start out by sending federal money and subjecting the state to federal rules. Then gradually decrease the federal money (does anybody really believe that the federal government will provide 90% funding from now on, and that it won’t be decreased as part of future budget cuts?) while keeping all of the federal rules in place.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 27th, 2012
1:07 pm
Where do we find another
single dollar for military spending when we already spend more than the next 20+ countries combined. Are we that Chicken S***?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 27th, 2012
1:11 pm
when it starts becoming a partly unfunded mandate, we opt out?
This is called “conservative responsibility”. Let’s get what we can from our fellow americans and then just screw them over in the end.
This is how Wal-Mart operates. Wal-Mart takes local tax incentives to open a store INSIDE a town’s boundaries (no taxes for 5 years if you open up a store in our town.) After 5 years, Wal-Mart abandons the location and opens a new store outside the town’s boundaries.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
1:13 pm
“Lucky for the rest of us, you Cons are holding less and less power in the USA.”
Yeah, ’cause gaining governors offices and state legislatures in a national election of an American Idol President, is always considered “losing power”.
Note to Finn: The majority of decisions governing your daily life are made at the LOCAL level.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
1:13 pm
@Kyle…”But here’s my question: Where do we find another $95.2 billion per year in a Washington that is currently:”
You are mixing questions…the correct question is why should Georgians pay the taxes associated with the program yet refuse to reap the direct benefits? We are going to pay the taxes and other costs and those revenues will be distributed to states that participate. By refusing to participate Raw Deal simply forces those tax dollars out of the pockets of Georgians and into the pockets of another state…mostly “Red ones” that also currently underfund Medicare.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
1:20 pm
” We are going to pay the taxes and other costs and those revenues will be distributed to states that participate.”
We would if the government actually funded their programs with actual revenues, but they simply write another deficit check and move on. Since the inevitable outcome is national insolvency (because you people on the left can’t get your heads out of your behinds), why not just opt out of another unfunded program?
southpaw
November 27th, 2012
1:23 pm
“you wonder who the parasites really are!”
Here’s an excerpt from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parasite?s=t
a person who receives support, advantage, or the like, from another or others without giving any useful or proper return, as one who lives on the hospitality of others.
So a business that gets its rates cut, but still pays taxes (albeit a smaller amount) TO government instead of getting a check FROM government without doing anything to earn money, is not a parasite.
“eliminate the subsidies to big oil , agribusiness, and to business”
Possibly. Is the government writing checks to these companies without them paying taxes or doing any service? If so, you have a great idea. On the other hand, if these companies are earning their own revenue and the “subsidies” consist of letting them keep more of what they’ve earned (the NERVE of anyone who would allow that to happen!), it might or might not be so good. In that event, the rallying cry of “cut subsidies!” is just the next round of saying, “raise taxes!,” and that debate is already well under way.
JamVet
November 27th, 2012
1:25 pm
Because Obozo’s parasite base is all on the “taking” side of the equation.
Stop being such worthless, thieving scum, Obozobots!
Woo Hoo!
Excellent job, Lil!
With friends like you, the GOP doesn’t need any enemies!
jconservative
November 27th, 2012
1:32 pm
We have made some progress on deficit/debt in the last couple of years. The Bush/Obama Tax Cuts will sunset on 12/31/2012. The sequestered spending cuts go into effect 1/2/2013.
That is already done and if no one lifts a finger it will go into effect as scheduled. And both were bi-partisan bills and both sides are happy.
Correct?
Rockerbabe
November 27th, 2012
1:36 pm
So Kyle, what is YOUR solution to the issue of the uninsured and the cost of unreimbursed medical care? Everyone gripes about our medical system, which is essentially a private system, but no one has come up with a solution to caring for the uninsured. So, how about it? What is your solution our the medical care crisis for at least 50+ million people?
Jefferson
November 27th, 2012
1:39 pm
Sounds too easy eh jcon ? Truth is Ga will be left behind, they will pay the Feds but get nothing for being obstructive. Even FL knows what to do.
southpaw
November 27th, 2012
1:40 pm
This is called “conservative responsibility”. Let’s get what we can from our fellow americans and then just screw them over in the end.
————————————————–
If that’s really how it works, perhaps the federal government would be wiser not to allow us the opportunity to “get what we can from our fellow americans” by not trying to implement the program.
“This is how Wal-Mart operates. Wal-Mart takes local tax incentives to open a store INSIDE a town’s boundaries (no taxes for 5 years if you open up a store in our town.) After 5 years, Wal-Mart abandons the location and opens a new store outside the town’s boundaries.”
Two Wal-Marts have opened up near me since I bought my home 19 years ago. One of them is within city limits and hasn’t moved since it opened over 10 years ago. The other has been open only a few months, and it isn’t anywhere near a city. To my knowledge, it hasn’t replaced any store that closed. In other words, Wal-Mart didn’t replace a store; they expanded into a new area.
Darwin
November 27th, 2012
1:44 pm
Start by taking it out of an over bloated defense budget. Make NATO countries provide the cost of THEIR protection instead of using US bases as an economic engine for local economies.
td
November 27th, 2012
1:47 pm
Finn McCool (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)
November 27th, 2012
12:59 pm
Lucky for the rest of us, you Cons are holding less and less power in the USA.
Not meant to be a factual statement.
30 Republican governors the most ever in the nations history.
Republican control both sides of the legislature in 30 states. Most ever in in the nations history
Republicans control at least one chamber in 6 additional states.
Republicans control the US House of Reps now and that number will increase in two years due to new gerrymandered districts.
Yes, the Republicans seem to be losing power now.
getalife
November 27th, 2012
1:48 pm
Keep fighting it until we get single payer cons.
Stay the course.
So, our President will have a Dem house and rubber stamp congress his last two years.
You cons are doing a heck of a job.
1961_Xer
November 27th, 2012
1:49 pm
“Lucky for the rest of us, you Cons are holding less and less power in the USA”
… and in 10 more years when the U.S. is a total 30 TRILLION in debt, nobody in the USA holds power (just as Greece holds no power). We will all be debt slaves, NOBODY will get SS, NOBODY will get food stamps, NOBODY will get government healthcare, and the rich will still have everything they have today.
This is a simple math problem: Debt in 10 years = current debt + (10 * yearly deficit).
30+ Trillion in debt is a hole that the US will not be able to dig out of. A lot of people are going to go hungry and homeless and without healthcare.
Linda
November 27th, 2012
2:00 pm
Obama said that by pulling out of Iraq, like we had planned to do anyway, we could “save” the money we were borrowing from China (to fund the Iraq War) & spend (invest) it on his union buddies, who are employed directly by the state governments in states in which workers have no right to work. We could take that saved, borrowed, spent money & spend it again on Obamacare!
(My liberal friend taught me that liberal accounting technique.)
Don't Tread
November 27th, 2012
2:01 pm
Yeah, let’s accept a permanent liability (which will only increase) and set of rules (which will only get more complex) along with a temporary revenue stream (which will probably decrease or become worthless in the future). What on earth could possibly go wrong with that?
Wonder if John Holahan’s previous occupation was “used car salesman”?
JDW
November 27th, 2012
2:03 pm
@Tiberius…”We would if the government actually funded their programs with actual revenues, but they simply write another deficit check and move on.”
I guess you blather about so many things you tend to forget…as you might remember the ACA contains a list of defined revenue sources and/or taxes that will fund the implementation. Some of them are:
-3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000
-Increase in Medicare Payroll Tax to 2.35% on incomes over $250.000
-2.3% excise tax on medical devices
-Individual and employer mandates
So in a nutshell the bill is going to be funded by Georgians, queue the blathering about underestimating the costs, whether Georgians participate or not. To repudiate $33 billion in benefits that these taxes should provide is just plain stupid.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
2:10 pm
Thanks for finally admitting that Obamacare is the largest single tax increase on the middle class in American history, JDW. Isn’t enlightenment wonderful?
And YOU might remember that taxes can change with a single vote of Congress and a signature from the President.
But that would require knowledge of our Constitutional system you do not have.
curious
November 27th, 2012
2:11 pm
Last in high school graduation; soon to be last in medically insured citizens.
Georgia will soon be a very attractive location for companies seeking an educated and healthy work force.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 27th, 2012
2:18 pm
You Cons should stick to your Benghazi hysteria
stands for decibels
November 27th, 2012
2:19 pm
Where do we find another $95.2 billion
We continue to get people to lend it to us for close to zero percent interest.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
2:23 pm
@Tiberius…”Thanks for finally admitting that Obamacare is the largest single tax increase on the middle class in American history, JDW. Isn’t enlightenment wonderful?”
I admitted no such thing, I simply pointed out that the bill is funded, as should all spending bills be, and we shall pay whether Raw Deal screws us or not.
“And YOU might remember that taxes can change with a single vote of Congress and a signature from the President.”
Don’t remember this coming up but show me where I mentioned that this was not a possibility.
“But that would require knowledge of our Constitutional system you do not have.”
I have a pretty good grasp, why I even know that the current President was just reelected to FOUR MORE YEARS and that there is no chance he will sign a bill that that decimates funding for the program.
You on the other hand, like Kyle and several of the other “Conservatives” around seem unwilling to understand that you lost both the election and the Obamacare ruling. To be willing to pay the bills but reap none of the benefits is just plain stupid.
stands for decibels
November 27th, 2012
2:23 pm
30+ Trillion in debt is a hole that the US will not be able to dig out of.
when were we ever planning to pay off that debt?
We’ve been running a debt since Andrew Jackson left office.
Seriously–where do people come up with these strange notions?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
2:26 pm
JDW seems to have forgotten that the legislative body which originates all spending bills is still firmly in the hands of a party who does not wish to fund Obamacare.
Dave
November 27th, 2012
2:28 pm
I’m sure it isn’t one for one dollars; but, the people that will get added under the AHA are the same people getting inefficient care in emergency rooms, free and low cost clinics and the like. We are paying for them now. Don’t we count that money as an offset against the $95 billion you are looking for?
As to the bigger question, are we willing to let poor people linger and die for want of money, my answer would be no, we should pony up, bite the bullet, etc. So, to answer your question, we get it from us.
We do things like not build billion dollars stadiums, not put millions into bridge signage along the connector,not spend money “branding” our schools (or too late, creating a shadow charter system) we quit giving tax breaks to people and companies that don’t need them, we quit forcing spending by the military that it hasn’t asked for and doesn’t want, we reduce our world wide military presence, and so on. Will there be a shortfall when all the waste is eliminated? Probably, that’s when we share the hurt and spend a little more. Or we let people die, because? Because we got ours, let them go find theirs.
Linda
November 27th, 2012
2:30 pm
If it’s not too late, Obama could nationalize Twinkies (he’s nationalized just about everything else) & we could have a nationwide Bake Sale!
Hostess was Too Big to Fail, but Too Spongie to Survive (TSTS).
We could require fruit pies to be in every vending machine & cafeteria in every govt. bldg., including our schools. FEMA & the Red Cross could cool the air by handing out Sno Balls every time we have another Global Warming-caused disaster. K-rations could be enhanced with the addition of HoHos. We could pay Social Security beneficiaries & Medicare/Medicaid doctors & hospitals in redeemable coupons for Wonder Bread. We could pay the interest on the debt in donettes. The list, like the shelf-life, is endless.
We could become the United States of Ding Dongs!
Dave
November 27th, 2012
2:32 pm
ACA, not AHA. Sorry.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
2:34 pm
@Tiberius…”JDW seems to have forgotten that the legislative body which originates all spending bills is still firmly in the hands of a party who does not wish to fund Obamacare”
Tiberius seems to have such a poor understanding of legislation that he does not realize the revenue will be collected no matter what at this point.
Nate Silver
November 27th, 2012
2:36 pm
“We could become the United States of Ding Dongs!”
You would certainly be one of the leaders for sure. No changes required for you.
Kyle Wingfield
November 27th, 2012
2:37 pm
JDW @ 2:03: This summer, the CBO issued new estimates about Obamacare’s insurance costs and new revenues for 2013-22 (the same as in the Kaiser study I discussed in the OP today). The new revenues were expected to be only $514B over 10 years while the costs were expected to be $1,680B.
We can pretty confidently assume the costs will be higher than CBO estimates; that’s one takeaway from the Kaiser study, which put the feds’ Medicaid costs from 2013-22 at $952B vs. the CBO’s estimate of $643B.
If Kaiser is right about Medicaid, and if the CBO underestimated all Obamacare costs by as large a percentage as the Medicaid costs — two admittedly big if’s — the 10-year cost of Obamacare’s insurance provisions would be $2,487B. That’s vs. new revenues of just $514B — which, if history repeats itself, will turn out to have been overestimated, making fiscal conditions even worse.
So, no, Georgians won’t be footing the bill whether we participate or not. No one is footing the bill; that’s my point.
Nate Silver
November 27th, 2012
2:37 pm
If the majority of voters in the states that will not be participating are good with these decisions then it will be what it is. If not, we may or may not see changes in those elected officials.
Time will tell.
1961_Xer
November 27th, 2012
2:38 pm
when were we ever planning to pay off that debt?
We weren’t. At some point, the rest of the world will stop financing our debt.
We’ve been running a debt since Andrew Jackson left office.
Seriously–where do people come up with these strange notions?
The ability to sell our debt was never in question as is is now. So tell us, master of finance, how much debt do YOU believe the world will buy from the U.S. before they stop buying? Or are you just full of insults with no ability to think for yourself?
You Cons should stick to your Benghazi hysteria
You would like that. All of simple this math is just boggling your brain. A simple question: how many more years can we run a $1.5 Trillion budget deficit before the world stops buying our debt? Realize that once the Chinese purse strings are cut, there is no more Obamacare, no more Medicaid, no more food stamps, no more EITC. How much debt are you willing to bet that China will take on before they say “no more”? That is what we are really talking about here.
Kyle Wingfield
November 27th, 2012
2:38 pm
stands @ 2:19: Right, because interest is the only consideration in paying back debt.
Kyle Wingfield
November 27th, 2012
2:40 pm
Dave @ 2:28: The Kaiser study’s figures purport to be net of any savings. For instance, they put the state’s cost at closer to $1.8B rather than $2.5B by making that very argument (I take no sides as to who’s right about the savings, but I wanted to point out your argument has been taken into account).
Dave
November 27th, 2012
2:43 pm
Fair enough. So we start digging into our pockets a little quicker.
southpaw
November 27th, 2012
2:43 pm
dB @ 2:19, Kyle @ 2:38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6TcpfBHlbs
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 27th, 2012
2:50 pm
The new revenues were expected to be only $514B over 10 years
So, what is the revenue from our military spending?
Spend on the military but not on keeping the population healthy? WE want a military that protects all the sick Americans?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 27th, 2012
2:53 pm
yay! songs that show conservatives think personal finance is identical to national finance.
Who needs Fox News?
JDW
November 27th, 2012
2:54 pm
@Kyle…”So, no, Georgians won’t be footing the bill whether we participate or not. No one is footing the bill; that’s my point.”
Yes, yes we will. Let’s assume that you are correct and the costs is $110 billion or so a year over 10 years. Not sure I believe that but not enough time to debate it today.
Georgians will pay all associated revenues i.e. mandates, excise taxes, Medicare taxes et. al. PLUS incur a pro rata share of any accumulated debt while receiving none of the benefits…I say again THAT’S JUST STUPID.
stands for decibels
November 27th, 2012
2:55 pm
because interest is the only consideration in paying back debt.
no, it’s not. However, I really don’t see why we’d allow ourselves to be paralyzed with fear over insuring millions of Americans like, you know, a civilized country might.
…
At some point, the rest of the world will stop financing our debt.
Ok, how about if we first get people back to work by spending money on projects that we need, and get people insured, before those poor gullible people with the trillions of dollars get wise to us?
retiredds
November 27th, 2012
2:57 pm
John Q @ 2:19 . Please don’t ask that Kyle limit L’l Barry. Then I wont get my daily dose of comic relief.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
2:58 pm
I want my free stuff.
real john
November 27th, 2012
3:00 pm
Thank you Kyle…I had to point this out on Bookman’s blog the other day when he was talking about the “free” money Georgia would be missing out on.
As I pointed out to him, it’s either coming out of my federal taxes or my state taxes, but it’s still has to be paid for. In essence, it would costs Georgia $33 + $2.5 billion for a grand total of $35.5 billion in money WE DON’T HAVE.
Of course Obama and the idiot liberals are actually trying to argue that Obamacare will LOWER the defeceits by adding millions to Medicaid. These are the same people who preach about science of global warming but can’t do simple math.
Thomas Heyward Jr
November 27th, 2012
3:00 pm
“Why is it that none of the “found money” advocates ever explain how we’re going to pay for this new spending?”
.
Washington will do what they ALWAYS do.
Increase the taxes on cigarettes, gas, and booze.
.
And the health nazis, global-warming weirdos, and other various nerds will cheer.
Dave
November 27th, 2012
3:00 pm
“…before those poor gullible people with the trillions of dollars get wise to us?”
Love it.
Kyle Wingfield
November 27th, 2012
3:01 pm
JDW @ 2:54: But if we don’t incur the costs, we aren’t accumulating the debt. It’s not as if Georgia is the only state considering staying out of this program.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
3:05 pm
@Kyle…”But if we don’t incur the costs, we aren’t accumulating the debt.”
Yes, yes we do…the CBO numbers you reference account for the fact that Georgia and other states may opt out. No matter what we will be incurring our pro rata share of the $110 billion a year.
If we in turn save our $33 billion in benefit we only really save our pro rata share of those benefits.
Kyle Wingfield
November 27th, 2012
3:06 pm
JDW: But the Kaiser numbers assume all states will join. That’s where the $33B figure comes from.
stands for decibels
November 27th, 2012
3:11 pm
So tell us, master of finance, how much debt do YOU believe the world will buy from the U.S. before they stop buying?
They almost never “stop buying.” Even a horribly ravaged country with crap currency can continue to sell notes, albeit at vastly higher rates. However, I might suggest that before we start actively cutting back on stuff we need to build/people we need to insure and support, that we wait until, I dunno, maybe we have to pay, say, three whole percent on a 10 year t bill instead of 1.64%? Just a suggestion.
Or are you just full of insults with no ability to think for yourself?
Who, pray tell, have I insulted?
JDW
November 27th, 2012
3:12 pm
@Kyle…it does not matter….if the aggregate cost is $1,162 trillion, without Georgia’s participation, then Georgians incur debt/cost of $38.73 billion in cost/debt.
If on the other hand Georgia particpates and gets $33 billion in benefits then that raises the aggregate cost to $1,195 and Georgians incur debt/cost of 39.83 billion.
To pi$$ away $33 billion in benefits and save $1.2 billion is STUPID.
MANGLER
November 27th, 2012
3:19 pm
Kyle, when the Federal Government incurs debt, “we” all incur it. That’s how it works. When a State incurs debt, that’s a State debt. Georgia’s red ink doesn’t bleed over into Oregon. The Federal quill does, however. It is there to cover all States and residents – which works both ways positive and negative. The National debt would be a negative. Military and the Courts would be a positive.
So since GA will opt out of receiving a Federal Benefit which will incur a Federal Cost along with it, GA will actually have to pony up despite not having received a direct benefit.
The “big picture” concept behind this whole thing is that preventative medicine, while yes incurring large up front costs to give to everyone who doesn’t currently have any coverage, will balance out in the long run by the newly covered (along with everyone else who is currently covered but will have preventative measures now also covered) leading arguably healthier lives than they otherwise would have.
Yeah, grey area there of course, but that’s the idea. More now equals less later. The other option, less now equals more later has been tried and is how we are here.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
3:20 pm
To think that $33 billion in “benefits” that are unpaid for is a “benefit” is just STUPID.
southpaw
November 27th, 2012
3:21 pm
“conservatives think personal finance is identical to national finance.”
———————————
No, not really. I’d rather look at a budget with a lot fewer zeroes on it. Besides, if I try to force other people to finance my expenses (the way taxes finance government expenses), I’d rightfully be thrown into prison. But your comparison is interesting for another reason. Suppose that an individual is supposed to pay bills with his or her own money–a reasonable idea. Further suppose that a group of about 300 million people, such as the United States, doesn’t have to pay its bills with its own money. That idea seems to have a lot of support around here. Tell me, what is the “critical mass?” In other words, how many people have to band together before they no longer have to use their own money to pay their bills? Experience has already shown that the number must be between 1 and 300 million, but I’m not sure how to narrow it down any further. And don’t tell me that it’s because we’re a nation that we don’t have to pay our bills. Greece has done that for a good while, and it isn’t working so well any more. I realize that we’re nowhere near as bad off as Greece is–YET. But we will get into that same position unless we start paying our bills with our own money, not somebody else’s.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
3:22 pm
@Kyle…its actually worse than that…I did not add the $512 billion in revenue that Georgians will pay a pro rata share of….that bumps the over all numbers to $55.8 if we don’t particpate and $56.9 if we do.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
3:23 pm
@Tiberius…”To think that $33 billion in “benefits” that are unpaid for is a “benefit” is just STUPID.”
Which part of we pay at least $55.8 billion don’t you get?
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
3:24 pm
So it isn’t debt. You just have to know how to wiggle.! The state can get money by so & so & so. That’s what I gather is meant here. Is that the liberal mantra or the liberal tantrum ?
Then you don’t worry about US debts, because some nation will loan it to us..Somebody!!!
I ask you, what happned to plain old common sense? Spending more than you have builds debt but you need money. After a while, there is no one left who will loan you anything. You will be in the same state as you were on your first day on your own;, sqawling, broke, unclothed and needing a bath, not to mention a diaper.
I had rather advance a bit. I will let others enjoy that old idiom”Ignorance is bliss!” Run up your own debts, whistle in the wind, and point your finger at someone else about your begging..
Go play accountant. Let me know when you pass your CPA exam. We willl send you to Washington where, apparently, there aren’t any CPAs..
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
3:29 pm
JDW does not understand pronouns.
The pronoun “WE” means us . US with the 55.8 billion in our pockets. Yeah, right. Just small change…
stands for decibels
November 27th, 2012
3:34 pm
Yeah, right. Just small change…
Well, it’s about 170 bucks per person. Not exactly “small change” but hardly something to lose sleep over.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
3:35 pm
@Dusty..”JDW does not understand pronouns.”
I understand pronouns perfectly…we Georgians, using Kyle’s numbers and Raw Deals plan will pay $55.8 billion in taxes and debt while forgoing the $33 billion in Medicare benefits.
On the other hand we Georgians can take the $33 billion in benefits and incure $56.9 billion, again using Kyle’s numbers, in taxes and debt.
You only have two choices…which do you prefer?
JDW
November 27th, 2012
3:36 pm
@Dusty..”JDW does not understand pronouns.”
I understand pronouns perfectly…we Georgians, using Kyle’s numbers and Raw Deals plan will pay $55.8 billion in taxes and debt while forgoing the $33 billion in Medicare benefits.
On the other hand we Georgians can take the $33 billion in benefits and incur $56.9 billion, again using Kyle’s numbers, in taxes and debt.
You only have two choices…which do you prefer?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
3:36 pm
Being “charged” for a service and “paying” for it are two different things, JDW.
At this point, nobody is paying for anything, as this is all unfunded debt incurred. And as I stated earlier, you libs are going to run us into insolvency and crash the world economy, so our debt will be moot at some point.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
3:41 pm
@Tiberius…yeah yeah yeah…I hear your blather…now YOU have to make a decision and you only have two choices which do you prefer?
md
November 27th, 2012
3:43 pm
“Where do we find another $95.2 billion”
Best I can tell, and the last election seems to bear out……vote for the neighbor to pay it……
Sounds like the easiest way ever to finance just about anything………
stands for decibels
November 27th, 2012
3:44 pm
you libs are going to run us into insolvency and crash the world economy
(c) 1933, 1965, 2009. All rights reserved.
stands for decibels
November 27th, 2012
3:46 pm
On the other hand we Georgians can take the $33 billion in benefits and incur $56.9 billion, again using Kyle’s numbers, in taxes and debt.
You only have two choices…which do you prefer?
Well, we could “stand on principle” and allow other states to reap the benefits of having more of their residents insured which would, I assume attract more businesses and suchlike.
That’s be a lousy deal for Georgia but hey–we’d have our precious integrity intact. Or something like that.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
3:49 pm
JDW
The whole country is already in debt. Start from there. So Feds promise to give Georgia money they don’t have. Can’t you realize that in debt means NO MONEY?
Even if the Feds had any money, after a few years they don’t plan to send any more.
Georgia has responsibly said “NO THANKS!”, a wise financial move made by wise people in Georgia. I send my thanks to them for this show of intelligence.
stands for decibels
November 27th, 2012
3:52 pm
“That’s be”? oy.
that’s be all for me for now. Later, Wingfiieldians.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
3:54 pm
My decision is to not incur the cost, and not pay the tax.
Problem solved.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
3:55 pm
@Dusty…”Can’t you realize that in debt means NO MONEY?”
Don’t you understand Georgians will incur 98% of the cost NO MATTER WHAT. Why on earth wouldn’t any rational person offset those costs to the best of thier ability…ooopppps rational…thats it…my bad.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
3:57 pm
@Tiberius…”My decision is to not incur the cost, and not pay the tax. Problem solved.”
Why you have all the smarts of an ostrich…
pssstttt…this is a multiple choice test there are only two answers and that is not one of them.
Don't Tread
November 27th, 2012
4:01 pm
“vote for the neighbor to pay it……Sounds like the easiest way ever to finance just about anything”
There has never been a problem that Democrats couldn’t solve using other people’s money, and now they call those “other people” greedy, racists, traitors, fascists, etc. because they don’t agree with that plan.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
4:03 pm
JDW, when will you realize that the “cost” of the program will NEVER be paid back, nor collected?
This is FEDERAL debt, and you libs don’t have any intention of paying it down, and the Republicans lack the will do so so.
md
November 27th, 2012
4:03 pm
“maybe we have to pay, say, three whole percent on a 10 year t bill instead of 1.64%?”
So, we would go from borrowing 262B per year to pay the debt service to 480B per year, and that is assuming we get an economy that actually does something. And if the economy stays stagnant?
There is no guarantee that we are headed for all wine and roses…….it makes much better sense to plan for water and spam and end up with wine and roses…….
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:06 pm
@Tiberius…”when will you realize that the “cost” of the program will NEVER be paid back, nor collected?”
Oy vey…get back to me when you buy your next medical device or are subject to one of the other revenue mechanisms…well except the ones keyed to incomes of $250K and above you won’t see those.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
4:07 pm
Having INSURANCE for healthcare does not guarantee that you will get it. Maybe! But doctors, hospitals , health workers are not happy and are not plentiful in many areas.
In socialized medicine, which is what ObamaCare is, you do not often see the doctor. You will see aids, nurses,physician’s assistants, and other workers but the doctor will be busy doing paper work so the place can be approved. Right now you can do just as well to go to a drug store with “someone” who can give you shots. That is the kind of medicine you are going to get and you asked for it. Get used to ti. .
There will always be poor people with health problems. That will not change no matter what you spend and wrecking one of the best health systems in the world to do it bides nothing good for anyone.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
4:12 pm
JDW, how many “medical devices” do you think are going to be bought in a recessionary economy in the next few years?
Answer: Not many.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
4:16 pm
JDW
YOU have a problem. There is such a thing as real honest-to-goodness money.
You can float on your cloud at liberal latittudes but debt is real too because you don’t have the real money.
You’ve got NO money, honey, but keep on saying it doesn’t matter.tra la la la la la…. …
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:20 pm
@Tiberius…”how many “medical devices” do you think are going to be bought in a recessionary economy in the next few years? Answer: Not many.”
Ah say, ah say, ah say boy…you really are a maroon….of all the recession proof markets that one might well be near the top.
Ray
November 27th, 2012
4:20 pm
What value do you put on life? An unborn embryo: priceless. A poor American: worthless, well if you are a Republican, who purports to care deeply care about the deficit. There has to be a balance; Extremists don’t see it that way. Georgia’s give aways to the wealthy (like sales tax exemptions on parts for private jet owners, or public works that specifically benefit friends and business partners reveal the true values of our Governor. It is not a pretty picture.
JamVet
November 27th, 2012
4:21 pm
…wrecking one of the best health systems in the world…
Too late. It is already wrecked.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:22 pm
@Dusty…”There is such a thing as real honest-to-goodness money.
Yep your choice is to spend $55.8 billion of it and get ZERO in Medicare benefits or spend $56.9 billion and recieve $33 billion…only two choices…clock is ticking…which will it be…
md
November 27th, 2012
4:25 pm
“get back to me when you buy your next medical device or are subject to one of the other revenue mechanisms”
You mean like the annual tax on providers? We’ll pay that when they add it to our premiums……
Tax on drug companies? Again, just passed along to the end user……
Cap on FSA’s? Yep, that’s our money they are capping…..more tax.
Over the counter meds? Yep, no more pre-tax dollars for those……
Tanning bed tax? Over done momma pays that one……
Additional tax on non-medical withdrawals from HSA’s…..yep, us again.
mike
November 27th, 2012
4:28 pm
“[W]ith projected cuts added in, the national security budget in fiscal 2013 will be nearly $1 trillion—a staggering enough sum that it’s worth taking a walk through the maze of the national security budget to see just where that money’s lodged.
By way of comparison, the federal government will spend around $64 billion on education that same year.”
You’ll remember that the Department of Education is one of those vile, hated departments the Right wants to do away with.
http://www.thenation.com/article/168002/how-much-does-washington-spend-defense#
Still think we can’t trim the military budget? This is a great informative article that is well worth reading.
CC
November 27th, 2012
4:28 pm
Dusty:
“There will always be poor people with health problems. That will not change no matter what you spend and wrecking one of the best health systems in the world to do it bides nothing good for anyone.”
Maybe it bodes well for systems, such as Social Security Medicare, etc.?
From the legalization of abortion to Obama’s ‘compassionate care’ of the elderly terminally ill was not a great leap. We kill the future of our country by killing the unborn, and we kill the wisdom of our country to not treating the elderly and letting them die sooner (giving terminally ill a whole new meaning!). This eases the stress on Social Security, Medicare, etc.
Aren’t we smart!
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:29 pm
@md…yep those are some of the ones…Georgians will pay them and we should receive the benefits they entitle us to recieve…write Raw Deal let him know how you feel.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
4:29 pm
Jamvet.
You are one silly man. Just because you see everything in blue & purple doom & gloom does not mean it is true.
The USA is well known world wide for its great healthcare. Those who can afford to travel here are right in our hospitals as soon as they can get here.
Too bad you cannot appreciate the greatness that is the USA in so many fields of endeavor. .
CC
November 27th, 2012
4:31 pm
“Too late. It is already wrecked.”
Yep, effective as of the date of passage of NobamaCare.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
4:31 pm
JDW obviously doesn’t understand the retrenchment theory of economics.
EVERY market will be affected by the coming recession. And “new” medical devices will be affected just as much as anything else, because there is a cost/benefit reality to expensive new equipment that provides marginal improvements over existing ones.
Kyle Wingfield
November 27th, 2012
4:32 pm
mike @ 4:28: And how much do the states spend on education compared to defense?
It’s called federalism.
Linda
November 27th, 2012
4:33 pm
No one has honestly answered Kyle’s question. A few liberals are beginning to realize that Obama’s plan to tax millionaires & billionaires is nothing more than a pipe dream, a drop in an ocean.
The Democrats’ intention is to allow the tax cuts to expire on all tax brackets, but they will still be trillions of dollars short.
The answer to Kyle’s question is: there is NO PLAN to pay for either the old spending or the new spending or the debt or the unfunded liabilities.
We are doomed.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
4:36 pm
911 get help for JDW
He has no concept of the meaning of zero That is 00000000000, the amount of money you DO NOT HAVE when you are in debt.
mike
November 27th, 2012
4:38 pm
Kyle, I’m not sure I understand your question. One thing I am sure of is that if there was ever an area of government that needs to be cut, it is the military and bogus “homeland security.” Notice that the nearly $1 trillion of YEARLY spending on the military/security complex DOES NOT INCLUDE interest on prior indebtedness caused by military/security spending.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:39 pm
@Tiberius…”EVERY market will be affected by the coming recession”
The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling…arhhhggghhh Obama arhhggghh Obama…o’ wait…actual forecasts….
Real GDP growth
2013: 1.8 percent
2014: 2.9 percent
2015: 3.2 percent
2016: 3.7 percent
2017: 3.9 percent
2013 inflation
1.4 percent
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/socgen-global-economic-outlook-2013-2017-2012-11?op=1#ixzz2DSfq43G5
oppps never mind.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
4:39 pm
“We are doomed.”
Living seems to beat the alternative, so hang in there.
mike
November 27th, 2012
4:42 pm
BTW if you are planning on buying a lottery ticket for the Powerball drawing, I have some odds for you:
If you don’t play your odds of winning are:
0.00000000000000000000 (zero)
If you buy a single ticket your odds of winning are:
0.00000000571428571429 (not much better)
GOOD LUCK!
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:43 pm
@Dusty…”911 get help for JDW”
Ok its second grade math for you…which statement results in the minimum expenditure for Georgians…
$55.8 – 0 = $55.8 spent
$56.9 – $33 = $23.9 spent
Pick the one you want…it’s simple math (I know Repugs have a tough time with math)..clock is ticking…tick…tock
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
4:45 pm
In case you missed it, JDW, there is no such thing as “actual” “forecasts”.
“Actual” is reality.
“Forecasts” are predictions, and in government’s case, usually wrong.
Linda
November 27th, 2012
4:48 pm
mike(with a little m)@4:42, has come up with a way for the fed. govt. to pay for .00000000000001 of Obamacare.
Now, if Chicago thuggery could nudge the outcome!
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:50 pm
@Kyle..”And how much do the states spend on education compared to defense?”
Remarkably we spend almost the same on both. When you add Federal, State and Local spending we spend $2,885 on Education and $2,847 on Defense.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year_spending_2013USdn_13ds1n#usgs302
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:50 pm
Sorry those numbers are per capita
mike
November 27th, 2012
4:51 pm
But, if you take those odds and multiply them by the potential payout of $500,000,000.00 it actually makes playing worthwhile.
0.00000000571428571429 x $500,000,000.00 = $2.857142857 > $1.00 (cost of ticket)
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:51 pm
@Tiberius…”Forecasts” are predictions, and in government’s case, usually wrong.”
Unlike the ones you make which are ALWAYS wrong.
md
November 27th, 2012
4:54 pm
“0.00000000571428571429 (not much better)”
Yet someone beats those odds every time there is a winner…….hence the reason folks should go spend their $2…..
mike
November 27th, 2012
4:57 pm
md: is it $2.00 to play Powerball? I don’t ever play, so I don’t know.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
4:57 pm
THE CONSTITUTION
I believe what we are entitled to is written quite clearly in the Constitution. Nowhere does it mention healthcare. That is because those smart people who wrote the Constitution thought we were able to feed ourselves, take general care of ourselves and desired freedom to make our own choices and decisions.
Our founders never pictured one half of our citizens being dependent on others for care. They knew that such a state is not independent and that is the foundation of our country.
It is time to speak of independence and self reliance. If you don’t believe it, look around at other countries who also got “dependent”. We don’t want to be like them, broke and mobbed. Well, most of us don’t.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
5:02 pm
Hey Dusty…Newsflash….Obama won…Obamacare is here to stay…Georgians will pay thier share of the bill, only question is will they get thier share of the benefits…tick tock…tick tock
Linda
November 27th, 2012
5:02 pm
Liberals have no problem doing the math to fund trillions of dollars in new spending but can’t subtract 7.8% from 7.9% & explain why the Obama adm. has not created one, single, net new job in almost 4 years.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
5:03 pm
The Constitution doesn’t mention a lot of things, however that doesn’t mean that numerous laws are not on the books and have been declared legal by State, Federal and Supreme Court decisions eventhough there is a direct reference in the “Constitution”.
So what exactly is your point? I’m sure you might have one. It would be a surprise if it were of sound logic, but a point nonetheless.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
5:04 pm
JDW
Simple math
When you have 0$, and add 0$ , then the answe is 0$. In debt means broke =ZERO $$$.
Basicly, our country is broke. Georgia is broke. Act like it!!
Greece is broke. Spain is broke. Observe!!
Kyle Wingfield
November 27th, 2012
5:04 pm
JDW @ 4:50: My point exactly. To mike: We don’t spend a lot more on defense than we do education; we divide the responsibility for each differently. Defense is a federal responsibility and education is a state one. That’s federalism.
1961_Xer
November 27th, 2012
5:05 pm
Having INSURANCE for healthcare does not guarantee that you will get it. Maybe! But doctors, hospitals , health workers are not happy and are not plentiful in many areas.
In socialized medicine, which is what ObamaCare is, you do not often see the doctor. You will see aids, nurses,physician’s assistants, and other workers but the doctor will be busy doing paper work so the place can be approved. Right now you can do just as well to go to a drug store with “someone” who can give you shots. That is the kind of medicine you are going to get and you asked for it. Get used to ti. .
Bingo. People STILL have not let that little tidbit sink in. Everyone thinks that they are going to be able to go the the best doctors and get all the care they ever needed. It is only a matter of time before ALL doctors are overwhelmed and care is rationed. Insurance does not equal care. Insurance does no good if there is no doctor or no medical facility…. but now everyone gets to pay whether the medical infrastructure exists to deliver care for you or not.
Care will become just like schools. If you are in Zipcode xxxxx, then you go to this public school whether is is good/bad/failing. If it is a failing school… sucks to be you. If you are in Zipcode xxxxx, you will get to go to doctor A, B or C. If docs A, B, C are marginally competent, sucks to be you.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
5:05 pm
@Linda…O’ Dear
Could it have, maybe, just maybe had something to do with the fact the Duhbya RAN THE ECONOMY IN A DITCH and it took almost two years to get back to positive growth…yeah thats it.
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:05 pm
Our projected tax revenues including payroll taxes for 2013 are $2.9 trillion. Ex-payroll taxes, our projected tax revenues are $1.95 trillion. Does it really make sense to spend OVER HALF of all INCOME taxes on the military/security complex? Do we have our priorities mixed up?
http://nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/revenues/
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
5:06 pm
there is no direct reference, not “a direct reference…..”
JDW
November 27th, 2012
5:06 pm
@Kyle…”My point exactly.”
Suprised me. I would have bet we spend more on education.
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:08 pm
OK, Kyle, I understand what you’re saying, education is mainly a local expenditure rather than a Federal one.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
5:09 pm
@1961X_er…”In socialized medicine, which is what ObamaCare is”
Could you ’splain how purchasing insurance from third parties is “socialized medicine”. In case I missed something could you shoot me the address of the government operated health facility that serves Buckhead. I am feeling a bit under the weather today.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
5:12 pm
Dusty
Not sure if you heard, but a right leaning Supreme Court has ruled that Obamacare is legal under the Constitution of the United States. Of course that went against the conventional wisdom, rhetoric, hyperbole and bs from many on the right, but in fact it was ruled legal.
So what exactly is your point again?
JDW
November 27th, 2012
5:13 pm
@Dusty….”Simple math When you have 0$, and add 0$ , then the answe is 0$. In debt means broke =ZERO $$$.”
I see the problem we need third grade math. When you have 0 and borrow $55.8 billion you have a negative $55.8 billion. On the other hand if borrow $56.9 billion and you get $33 billion of it back then you only have a negative $23.9 billion.
You can only choose one…which do you perfer…tick tock…tick tock
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:13 pm
If you want to know who’s REALLY paying the taxes in this country take a look at this graphic:
http://nationalpriorities.org/media/uploads/federal_budget_101/Figure5.3.png
All this hogwash about the United States having the highest corporate tax rates in the world is a bunch of, well, hogwash! It’s the American public, the public that gets up and goes to a job and earns wages that’s paying the taxes in this country.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
5:15 pm
JDW
PS…I heard aboutObamaCare. I haven’ t heard how they are going to pay for it yet
———————
Oh ye of small things, I don’t read LABELS that don’t believe in the Constitution. The Big C covers the big thngs. Americans abide by the Constitutiion, not try to get around it. I guess you are from elsewhere….
.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
5:19 pm
“The Big C covers the big thngs.”
And the Supreme Court ruled it “covered”
But nice try. Stay in the shallow water with your floaties on. Would like for you to stay safe and sound.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
5:22 pm
JDW
Insurance is on the pay end. It does not guarantee the medical services you can receive will be professional. Sorry, bub, head to the drug store for your healthcare. . Get ready for “state medicine” a la cheapo. You are going to love what you begged for…..
Linda
November 27th, 2012
5:25 pm
JDW@5:05, Bush cut taxes & the result was economic growth, lower unemployment & the highest tax revenues in the history of the country.
I’ve already told you once today: go spread your propaganda on the minions.
But if you’re right, that “it took almost two years to get back to positive growth,” where is it? Moss on a tree?
TRUTH
November 27th, 2012
5:26 pm
Wow, Kyle and other Republicans on this blog….imagine an America where medical care is FREE TO ALL!! Hmmm, of course there would be an increase in taxes for all (which I suspect would be CHEAPER than a premium from your average health insurer). But an America where EVERY AMERICAN can go to a doctor, get treatment, and meds, and stay around a little longer. How about that?? How about healthier employees for the workplace? Healthier kids? Healthier women? Healthier men? I think it would free small businesses up to hire, frankly. Maybe put a little extra in an employees pocket (at least that what the GOP talking points are – if there was no Obamacare, then small biz could start hiring again).
Guess that was another GOP myth. You R’s are literally shooting your own selves in the foot. And because you’re now the minority, that means you don’t get your way.
SINGLE PAYER, NOW!
Kyle Wingfield
November 27th, 2012
5:26 pm
mike @ 5:13: Do you realize that graph has nothing to do with what our corporate tax rate is? And it really doesn’t have anything to do with what other countries’ corporate tax rate is?
Kyle Wingfield
November 27th, 2012
5:29 pm
TRUTH @ 5:26: I recommend checking out what even the middle class in other countries pays in taxes to get health care before declaring it “FREE TO ALL!!” or saying people will have more money in their pockets.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
5:31 pm
kyle
You are correct in terms of what mike posted, however you are fully aware that when the right touts the US corporate tax rate as being the highest that they are being disingenuous. When looking at the effective rates, we are not even close.
One can argue that we need to change the loopholes and maybe lower the rate, but when the right touts the corporate rate issue, they are not being intellectually honest in the least.
md
November 27th, 2012
5:32 pm
“md: is it $2.00 to play Powerball? I don’t ever play, so I don’t know.”
It better be since that is what they charged me when I threw a $5 bill on the counter for my 5 quick picks……boy did I look silly.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
5:33 pm
JDW@5:05, Bush cut taxes & the result was economic growth, lower unemployment & the highest tax revenues in the history of the country.
Maybe the funniest thing ive ever heard.
Top tax rates were 77 percent under JFK.
They are at the lowest in history now and we are drowning in debt.
Coincidence. Hardly.
I love how Republican are not wanting to raise the Top Tax rates to 39.6 where they were under Clinton the last time we actually balanced the books.
They talk of closing loopholes.
Bunch of BS. They might close them for a minute but in a few years when no one is looking they will just create other ones. How do you think they got there in the first place?
Meanwhile in this country a man like Mitt Romney pays half the tax rate I do.
Shameful.
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:34 pm
Kyle, yeah, after I posted it that thought did occur to me. I’ll post an actual average corporate tax rate next.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
5:34 pm
Kyle
Maybe you can do an article pertaining to “nominal vs effective corporate tax rates” in the US.
I’m not saying there isn’t room for improvement, because there is, but again I will say that the rhetoric in terms of how it is spewed by many on the right is not intellectually honest in regards to the facts.
JamVet
November 27th, 2012
5:35 pm
Dusty, you are a fool if you think (and I use that word loosely) that the current healthcare system in this country is not a wreck.
Even Mitt Romney knew that when he was in Massachusetts and tried to fix it. Then he went rogue and self-destructed via spineless contortions on the national stage.
Great entertainment.
To which I say to you Republicans, keep up the good work!
McCarthy/Crow 2016.
JamVet
November 27th, 2012
5:37 pm
Kyle and mike, do you know what our average marginal corporate tax rate in this country is?
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:37 pm
“Corporations in the U.S. paid only an average of 12.1 percent in taxes on the profits they earned inside the U.S in fiscal 2011, according to statistics from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).
The Wall Street Journal reports that it’s the lowest percentage corporations have paid on those profits since at least 1972, and it’s less than half of the 25.6 percent they paid on average between 1987 and 2008.
Corporations saw their profits, however, reach an all-time high at the end of 2010. The $1.68 trillion in annualized profits in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2010 beat the previous record of $1.65 trillion in the third quarter of 2006.”
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/average-corporate-tax-rate-falls-12-lowest-d
A far cry from 35% wouldn’t you say?
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
5:38 pm
Every other advanced country in the world has Universal Healthcare and they seem to do just fine.
In fact im sure we seem like animals to them.
Linda
November 27th, 2012
5:38 pm
mike(with a little m)@5:13, I hope that you are finally realizing that the top 2 tax brackets, that Obama is bent & determined to tax, pay 44 % of the personal income taxes. How will raising taxes on 44% of the economy help the economy?
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
5:41 pm
1961__Xer
Glad to see you understand the pitfalls of socialized. medicine quite well. Poor liberals even think it is going to be a “freebie”. Now that is going to be a rude awakening. Not going to be a happy day for many reasons.
Now all we have to do is wait for the Supreme Court to tell us how to pay for this “benevolence”… That will be the day with our 16 trillion$$$ debt already growing rapidly. .
Lynnie Gal
November 27th, 2012
5:43 pm
It’s a shame that our governor and his party does not want the people of Georgia to have healthcare when their employers do not offer it, and that the rest of Americans get the benefit of having healthcare. Our governor and his party are trying to keep us impoverished by refusing this federal money for the health of Georgians.
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:43 pm
Linda: I’m in favor of letting ALL of the Bush tax cuts expire. ON EVERYONE.
I’m also in favor of trimming our military/security budget by 50%. The combination of those two would go a long way towards getting our fiscal house in order.
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
5:46 pm
This is a sad time for all true red blooded Americans! Everything has taxes on it you can’t win
JamVet
November 27th, 2012
5:47 pm
mike, exactly right!
12.1%.
With MANY of the biggest, most profitable multinationals in this country paying ZERO DOLLARS AND ZERO CENTS in any given year.
Oh and did I mention that in MANY cases, they also gets checks from Uncle Sugar totaling hundreds of millions of dollars to boot?
Pigs at the American trough.
They used to be our servants. Now they are our masters.
And we the people sit by and grin stupidly as OUR blood soaked sovereignty is sold off to the highest bidder.
And this disease called corporatocracy has grown so much since the 1980s that we even had one spineless little man saying recently, “Corporations are people, my friend.”
Fine, then send a whole boatload of them to fight and die in the sand.
And send Mitt with them…
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
5:47 pm
Three things have to happen.
1. Taxes must be raised
2. Spending must be cut
3. Military spending must really be cut.
I mean seriously why do we still have troops in Germany ?
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:47 pm
Letting the Bush tax cuts expire would raise approximately $268 billion in revenues. Trimming the military/security budget by 50% would reduce spending by around $500 billion. Net reduction in deficit – $768 billion. This is what our country REALLY NEEDS RIGHT NOW!
pogo
November 27th, 2012
5:49 pm
First a definition of “Entitlement Minded” americans must be offered since they now consitute about 52% of our population according to the last election. The Entitlement Minded Americans are comprised of many groups. You have the over 62 group who couldn’t give a crap less what happens to America as long as they get what they want in the way of Medicare and SSN. This group will end up taking way more from the coffers than they ever put in through these programs thus our present state of affairs. Then you have the disallusioned and spoiled young people whose parents spent billions sending them to schools to get degrees that don’t pay crap and now they can’t find jobs. These young people are used to getting what they want because of their stupid ass baby boomer parents you gave them everything at the detriment to themselves. Since they see socialism as a way to get what they want and they would follow anybody that promises that (just as Obama did). Then you have the loafers, the shiftless the lazy. They want to sit on their butts and own nothing but big screens and I-phones and they want their foodstamps and their checks to keep coming in. Rapidly the Hispanics are falling into this category. 1 in 5 hispanic families in this country now receive welfare of some type. That is a staggering statistic. And then, you have the institutionalized entitlement crowd you have generational dependance upon government programs. reaching way back to the 60’s and the era of “Big Government”. These know nothing but government entitlements and aren’t smart enough to know or care where the money comes from just as long as it keeps coming. Free Taxpayer money has bought these peoples obedience to the democratic party. And Obama? He now is faced with having to do something to curtail and cut government spending but yet he cannot because of his many promises to his 52%. All of these people are going to get angry when the hammer falls and the cuts come because they are all spoiled to a lifestyle that cannot be sustained in the world economic system.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
5:49 pm
Oh and did I mention that in MANY cases, they also gets checks from Uncle Sugar totaling hundreds of millions of dollars to boot?
Pigs at the American trough.
Look at all the breaks oil companies get.
All while having record profits.
Drill baby drill was pure BS
Lets just give the Oil companies everything while we are at it.
Shameful
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
5:49 pm
Cheesy gritty
Advanced countries? Most of them are also advanced in debt unless they are very small countries.
Haven’t heard of any one going to Greece, Spain or Portugal for great healthcare either.
Amazing how refugees want to join the “herd” here in the USA. And they have been coming here long before liberals ever got to saying “gimme” all the time. .
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
5:51 pm
mike – what happens to all the unemployed military personnel after this 50% cutback? That should really stimulate the economy don’t you think?
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:51 pm
Jamvet: remember that 12.1% number is on earnings in the United States. It does not include the $trillions corporations have earned and are sitting on offshore.
It never ceases to amaze me, though, how the Right fixates on the pittance the unfortunates receive who have had their jobs shipped overseas. It shows the power of propaganda.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
5:53 pm
Cheesy,
The election is over. You can stop with the propaganda. Makes you sound sorta ..welll….unAmerican …you know Knocking the country all the time.
You still sound PAID and that’s not good.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
5:53 pm
First a definition of “Entitlement Minded” americans must be offered since they now consitute about 52% of our population according to the last election. The Entitlement Minded Americans are comprised of many groups.
This is why you are losing elections.
I’m an Obama voter. I dont get one thing from the Government. I pay my taxes ( alot higher percentage than Mitt Romney )
You guys just dont get it.
Oh an by the way. There are many many many more white people on welfare than minorities.
It isn’t even close.
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:55 pm
Nunna: “[W]hat happens to all the unemployed military personnel after this 50% cutback?”
The same thing that happens to teachers whose jobs have been eliminated due to property tax shortfalls. They have to find something else.
pogo: get help. get help now.
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
5:56 pm
Wouldn’t it be nice if we had one day week no taxes on gas, food clothes, are money in our bank that has been taxed to death people want saved money cause it gets taxed your Property taxes what’s going on do we own anything without paying taxes? Tax burn out !!!!!!!
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
5:57 pm
Haven’t heard of any one going to Greece, Spain or Portugal for great healthcare either.
Too far away Alot of Americans do go to Canada.
In fact I know some people ( and this happens all the time ) who have marriages of convenience just so they can gain Canadian citizenship and not be bankrupted by medical costs.
I understand you live in la la land and are terribly mis informed person but im not going to let that stop me from speaking the truth.
JamVet
November 27th, 2012
5:57 pm
BTW, one fact lost in all of this MASSIVE corporate welfare discussion is that along with record profits, take a guess what is also at an all time high?
Corporate crime.
But there is even more good news for the 1%.
Middle class and lower class wages along with corporate prosecutions are at all time lows.
Occupy that…
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
5:58 pm
Lately I go on line for treatment lol
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
5:58 pm
Right. By all means fund all the social programs and terminate the employment of people that are providing a meaningful service to the country. If the teachers in this country were worth #$%^ we wouldn’t be in nearly as bad of a mess. Make school 12 months a year and eliminate their paid 3 months of vacation every year.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
6:01 pm
JamVet,
You need to level off a bit. Take up prize fighting or something. Your rants-on-rich are rediculous. Relax and eat your taco.
mike
November 27th, 2012
6:03 pm
Apart from letting the Bush tax cuts expire, and reducing the military/security complex budget, the fastest was to repair the ills this country is experiencing is to enact a 35% tariff on goods imported from China and other low-wage countries. Why 35%? This is the approximate amount by which the Chinese manipulate their currency to keep their goods far below what goods manufactured in the U.S. would cost. First, it would vastly reduce our deficit, secondly, it would eliminate the impetus U.S. corporations have to ship jobs overseas and would likely result in many of those job coming home.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
6:04 pm
“You need to level off a bit.”
This from the same blogger who was insinuating that Obamcare was not legal under the Constitution of the United States of America.
wowwwwwwwwwwwww
How self righteous is that?
Thanks for the laughs
JamVet
November 27th, 2012
6:04 pm
Nunna, speaking of educational challenges, check out Dusty’s “poetic license” with the word ridiculous…
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
6:04 pm
Why don’t you home school ok
Linda
November 27th, 2012
6:06 pm
Bye Bye@5:33, I don’t EVER post a fact that I can not back up.
First, here are numerous quotes by JFK on his opposition to high tax rates:
http://www.wnd.com/2004/07/25640/
Second, if tax rates are low (& the tax revenues are still high) & we are drowning in debt, then maybe, just maybe it’s the increase in spending that’s the problem. Duh!
Third, if you want to emulate Clinton, focus on the spending as well as the tax rates &, by God, at least PASS a budget for the 1st time in 3 yrs. & balance it. (That’s the balanced approach.)
Fourth, if you want Romney to pay the same tax rate as you do, then forgo your income. Romney earned zero salary while both the gov. of Mass. as well as the savior of the Olympics. How “shameful” that you would be so greedy!
md
November 27th, 2012
6:06 pm
“Linda: I’m in favor of letting ALL of the Bush tax cuts expire. ON EVERYONE.”
Good luck convincing the current admin to do that and lose the warfare advantage…..they know how to play the game, and they rely on that wedge to stay in power.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:07 pm
Why Hopeful? My property taxes go towards paying for “public education.” Why don’t we insist that our school systems hire competent teachers?
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
6:09 pm
Dear Cheesy
I know lots of Canadians who come to the USA when they want great healthcare. So there!
Proves little or nothing.
Canada does not have a population comparative in size to the USA. They also do not have a large debt. I’m not sure but i doubt that they have 50% of their citizens dependent on the government. They are a hardy bunch. Cold!!!
Maybe you would enjoy living in Canada? Yes?
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:12 pm
First, here are numerous quotes by JFK on his opposition to high tax rates:
Very true. But I doubt he had Billionaires like Mitt paying half the rate most Americans do in mind.
Second, if tax rates are low (& the tax revenues are still high) & we are drowning in debt, then maybe, just maybe it’s the increase in spending that’s the problem. Duh!
Agree as well. Military spending is out of control. We are paying to defend Germany. From what I ask.
Fourth, if you want Romney to pay the same tax rate as you do, then forgo your income. Romney earned zero salary while both the gov. of Mass. as well as the savior of the Olympics. How “shameful” that you would be so greedy!
Disingenuous at best. Incredibly naive at worst.
Road Scholar
November 27th, 2012
6:13 pm
Kyle, e could start by using the cigarette lawsuit settlement money to set up the Health Exchange instead of using it as a General Fund balancer. Novel idea…using money from a healthcare suit towards healthcare.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:14 pm
Maybe you would enjoy living in Canada? Yes?
I would if I was seriously ill.
In fact I would be looking for a Canadian bride so i wouldn’t lose my savings and my house.
carlosgvv
November 27th, 2012
6:14 pm
You’re darn right. Why should we be concerned about healthcare for all our citizens? As long as we’ve got ours, who gives a flying fork about those who don’t.
LET THEM EAT CAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s the Republican way.
md
November 27th, 2012
6:14 pm
“Corporations are people, my friend.”
And anyone with a lick of sense would understand that……I’m still waiting for that piece of paper to even move on it’s own, much less create all the havoc it gets blamed for.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
6:15 pm
here we go with the insinuations to leave the US from the blogger who thinks that Obamacare isn’t Constitutional……………
Maybe you would like it elsewhere. As for me and I am sure Cheesy, we will stay right here in the US.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:16 pm
I know lots of Canadians who come to the USA when they want great healthcare. So there!
Proves little or nothing.
Your right about that. We have some of the most advanced healthcare in the world.
If you are rich.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:16 pm
Cheesy if you go to Canada for healthcare if you are seriously ill, don’t worry, you won’t be around for long.
Linda
November 27th, 2012
6:16 pm
mike(with a little m)@5:43, You do know, don’t you, that our military’s number one job is to protect our oil interests overseas, because we are too stupid to use our own God-given natural resources? You do know, don’t you, that if our military is cut & our oil supply is cut, that we will no longer OWN our fiscal house?
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:17 pm
Black Label – You overlooked something. Cheesy’s going to Canada for healthcare.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:17 pm
Cheesy if you go to Canada for healthcare if you are seriously ill, don’t worry, you won’t be around for long.
Life expectancy is a lot higher there.
Infant mortality rates lower.
Diabetes. Heart Disease.
All lower
Probably just a coincidence right ?
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:18 pm
Cheesy if you go to Canada for healthcare if you are seriously ill, don’t worry, you won’t be around for long.
Life expectancy is a lot higher there.
Infant mortality rates lower.
Diabetes. Heart Disease.
All lower
Probably just a coincidence right ?
Right ?
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:18 pm
Yeah, they have better eating habits than Americans.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
6:20 pm
“As for me and I am sure Cheesy, we will stay right here in the US.”
Of course you will. Why go elsewhere when all the free stuff is right at your fingertips?
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:20 pm
You do know, don’t you, that our military’s number one job is to protect our oil interests overseas,
Yes.
Thats why we have 50,000 troops in Germany
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:20 pm
America, the land of opportunity. Sittin’ on the hood of your Welfare Cadillac, talkin’ on your Obamaphone. Work? What’s that?
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
6:22 pm
OH dear
A major offense. REDICULOUS OR RIDICULOUS! To be or not to be …a liberal!! That is the question.
OH where oh where has my spellcheck been?, Oh where oh where can it be?
Poor JamVet…. gone to the spelling bee to honey up his gloom & doom.. Go FER it, Jammy!
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:22 pm
Of course you will. Why go elsewhere when all the free stuff is right at your fingertips?
What free stuff ?
Where the hell is all this free stuff ?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
6:22 pm
Cheesy doing the whole “heath care is better in (fill in the blank)” argument by trying to equate lifestyle issues to heath care quality.
Cheesy, let me introduce you to the concept of “apples to oranges”.
independent thinker
November 27th, 2012
6:23 pm
ROCKERBABE -1:36 said:
“”"”"”"”"So Kyle, what is YOUR solution to the issue of the uninsured and the cost of unreimbursed medical care? Everyone gripes about our medical system, which is essentially a private system, but no one has come up with a solution to caring for the uninsured. So, how about it? What is your solution our the medical care crisis for at least 50+ million people?”"”"”"”"”"”"”
Excellent question that Kyle and the GOP will not answer except for that phantom unmentionable program in Mass. that has obtained 8.5 billion dollars in excess Medicaid waivers from the Fed so that ts hospitals can get reimbursed for the unfunded mandate passed by Reagan called EMTALA.
What EMTALA does is force any unfunded emergency room care to other patients and any state funding. The question Kyle should be asking along with other cons is if the socialized medical care
created by EMTALA is funded by increased medicaid, will there be cost savings across the board?
My wife went to ER at Piedmont for tests on stomach pains. The cost for four hours of tests and 10-15 minutes with a doctor? Over $8,000.00 which Blue Cross paid. What would the cost be if all ER visits were funded?
Then again in the GOP debates when Ron Paul said patients who have no insurance should not be admitted, everyone of the cons in the audience cheered. So what is the GOP solution? more unfunded mandates from the Feds?
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:23 pm
Yeah, they have better eating habits than Americans.
LOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yukonbacon_%28cropped%29.jpg
md
November 27th, 2012
6:23 pm
“Life expectancy is a lot higher there.”
To be expected when they live in a cryogenic state…..no thanks, my blood has gotten accustomed to flowing.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
6:23 pm
“Cheesy if you go to Canada for healthcare if you are seriously ill, don’t worry, you won’t be around for long.”
Yep, it is so awful that their average life expectancy is what compared to the US?
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:23 pm
Maybe the 50,000 troops are there to prevent any future Hitlers from getting any ideas. Germany does have a nasty habit of starting world wars you know.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
6:24 pm
“What free stuff ?
Where the hell is all this free stuff ?”
Just ask one of your neighbors, Cheesy. With 52% of all Americans receiving some form of government assistance, I’m sure it won’t take you long to find someone you know on the dole.
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
6:25 pm
Teachers don’t get paid enough as it is! We teach the whole world too.All kinds of Countries and languages coming in they have their work cut out when the last time you visited schools all in the south
from the east to west to south to north then you would leave those teachers along !! People need to take care of their children and help them give them Love and Guidance! When the last time you walk in your child’s room and said I love you good job!
md
November 27th, 2012
6:25 pm
“Thats why we have 50,000 troops in Germany”
I believe the theory is called “rapid response”……
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:25 pm
Black Label – since you obviously didn’t read my post, I’ll say it again. The Canadians live healthier lifestyles than Americans do. They don’t have welfare Cadillac hoods to sit on.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
6:25 pm
Nunna
Good for Cheesy. Many people from all over the world, including the US, go to other countries for healthcare. This is done for various reasons and has been going on for years.
Nothing new.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:26 pm
Cheesy doing the whole “heath care is better in (fill in the blank)” argument by trying to equate lifestyle issues to heath care quality.
Cheesy, let me introduce you to the concept of “apples to oranges”.
Tiberious doing the whole ill spin this and the statistics by offering up something that doesn’t make a lot of sense.
You see I couldn’t just be wrong it has to be something else.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
6:27 pm
Nunna
And that is a bad thing? Isn’t your eating and exercising habits part of your “healthcare”?
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:27 pm
“Thats why we have 50,000 troops in Germany”
I believe the theory is called “rapid response”……
LOL. File that one with Mitts bayonets.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
6:28 pm
“You see I couldn’t just be wrong”
No, actually, you COULD just be wrong, Cheesy.
And you are.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:29 pm
Nunna
And that is a bad thing? Isn’t your eating and exercising habits part of your “healthcare”?
They are healthier all the way around.
Preventive measures taken by the poor because of Universal Healthcare plays a major major role.
An ounce of prevention ….
They take that to heart.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:30 pm
No, actually, you COULD just be wrong, Cheesy.
And you are.
No you are.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:30 pm
No Black Label, it’s not a bad thing. However, exercising and proper diet don’t cost one dollar of taxpayer money.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
6:31 pm
“File that one with Mitts bayonets.”
Mitt never said anything about bayonets. That was Obama’s ignorant remark when he didn’t even know that his own military still buys and uses bayonets.
But nice try, Cheesy.
But another epic fail.
mike
November 27th, 2012
6:32 pm
Tiberius: I’m glad to see you’re awake. Sleep in late today?
Linda: “[I]f our military is cut & our oil supply is cut, that we will no longer OWN our fiscal house.” You mean we might have to (gulp) seek alternative sources of energy? You mean we might have to (gulp) melt our SUVs down and drive sub-compacts like those crazy Europeans? PLEASE say it ain’t so! ANYTHING BUT THAT!
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
6:33 pm
“However, exercising and proper diet don’t cost one dollar of taxpayer money.”
You pay already for other people’s bad habits through taxes and via your insurance. So the good or bad habits have had an impact on your wallet way before Obamacare ever came into being.
What is new? How it is administered?
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:33 pm
Oh and Cheesy showed us a link to a picture of “Yukon Bacon.” That one photo shows that the entire population of Canada has poor dietary habits. There you have it. Who’d a thunk it?
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:33 pm
Well its time to get off work.
Have to leave now to stop by the Obama store on my way home and get my free stuff for the day.
I hope its a new car this time.
See you guys !!!!!
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
6:34 pm
Still debating the election.
Wow. Thought that was over.
Oh well. Carry on.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
6:34 pm
“They are healthier all the way around. ”
Actually, Cheesy, they aren’t.
All you have to do is attend a family reunion with me and my Canadian cousins and listen to their stories comparing double, triple and quadruple bypasses, which pacemakers and what medicines they use.
btw, I have had none of those things, and I take ZERO medicines except over the counter pain meds. And I’m in their same age bracket.
So another fail on your part.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:35 pm
That was Obama’s ignorant remark when he didn’t even know that his own military still buys and uses bayonets.
He was making a point that simple minds like yourself cant grasp.
Bayonets. Seriously.
Yes they still have them.
Are they relevant.
No.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
6:35 pm
“I’m glad to see you’re awake. Sleep in late today?”
That’s what people who are retired do, mikey.
Michael H. Smith
November 27th, 2012
6:36 pm
Isn’t socialism great, you never have to explain how to pay for anything Kyle. Just tax the “evil rich”… make them pay their fair share… about 120% of their total worth!
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:36 pm
Let me know where you go to get your free stuff. I want some.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
6:37 pm
“Bayonets. Seriously.
Yes they still have them.
Are they relevant.
No.”
Tell that to the next Marine who has to take a beach head, Cheesy.
Not that you’d ever know what that was like . . .
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:38 pm
All you have to do is attend a family reunion with me and my Canadian cousins and listen to their stories comparing double, triple and quadruple bypasses, which pacemakers and what medicines they use.
btw, I have had none of those things, and I take ZERO medicines except over the counter pain meds. And I’m in their same age bracket.
So another fail on your part.
Yes because by all means your small family represents the whole population.
Man are you guys dumb.
Actually they are healthier.
By alot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems
Ill await your spin or shoot the messenger response.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
6:38 pm
Cheesy is moving to Canada if he can find a Canadian bride? Some poor girl, oh nevermind.
I am sure the Canadians are aware of such “conveniences” and have a few restrictions. But, go, cheesy, go! Good luck!! Congrats!! Have fun! Make a snowman. Enjoy! You can get help. Free healthcare at every drug store. It’s all there for you. Don ‘t hesitate. You will live longer. Tooo cold to deteriorate.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:38 pm
Michael – You just print some mo’ money.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:39 pm
I am sure the Canadians are aware of such “conveniences” and have a few restrictions. But, go, cheesy, go! Good luck!! Congrats!! Have fun! Make a snowman. Enjoy! You can get help. Free healthcare at every drug store. It’s all there for you. Don ‘t hesitate. You will live longer. Tooo cold to deteriorate.
Thanks for your support.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:41 pm
Tell that to the next Marine who has to take a beach head, Cheesy.
Not that you’d ever know what that was like . .
Really. LOL.
I think they use the gun part first LOL.
Then they reload.
You see we do have fewer boats than we had along time ago.
But the ones we have do alot more.
Can you understand that ?
I doubt it.
I love the fact that there are people reading this stuff who probably dont ever post.
You dont do your side much credit.
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
6:43 pm
Good luck you’ll need it lol
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
6:44 pm
Michael – You just print some mo’ money.
Notice the mo’ use for effect.
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
6:45 pm
I’m going to get me a money tree and plant it
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
6:48 pm
Watch out Michael that money you print will be taxed
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:52 pm
Hopeful – Nah, it’s the gub-ment (for effect for Cheesy) that prints more money.
md
November 27th, 2012
6:53 pm
“Bayonets. Seriously.
Yes they still have them.
Are they relevant.
No.”
Common sense dictates that if they were no longer relevant then we wouldn’t still be using them.
Hmmm……….
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:54 pm
Where do you find those money trees? I sure could use one. Especially if I aint gonna get no free stuff.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
6:58 pm
Cheesy, you really need to get off that apples to oranges comparison of heath care systems vs. lifestyles.
The biggest WHO statistical mistake they make is relying on is death rates to judge health.
Guess what? They do not discriminate between accidental deaths and natural causes. They don’t discriminate between natural causes and murders.
Your entire argument is washed down the drain because you cannot recognize nor analyze data.
And neither can the WHO.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
6:59 pm
Tiberius – Rock bands are notoriously poor statisticians. ;^)
JDW
November 27th, 2012
7:00 pm
@Linda…”Bush cut taxes & the result was economic growth, lower unemployment & the highest tax revenues in the history of the country.”
Linda
November 27th, 2012
7:00 pm
mike(with a little m)@6:32, The US Dept. of Energy was created under Carter to wean our dependence from foreign oil & to produce alternative energy sources. Well, how many trillions of dollars has that helped us? The first windmills were established in the US in 1622. How advanced are we now?
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM7Z03_First_Windmill_in_English_North_America
We’ve been seeking alternative sources of energy for centuries, not just decades. Any disruption of oil right now will plummet the US economy into doldrums.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
7:03 pm
JDW – Just goes to show you what a lucky rascal President Clinton was, doesn’t it? He timed his presidency to perfection. Rode the dot com as he entered office and ended his term as it fell through the cracks. That is one lucky man.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
7:04 pm
He was so lucky Al Gore invented the internet.
md
November 27th, 2012
7:08 pm
Yep, it’s all georgie’s fault…..never any mention of the dems blocking any and all reform of F&F for the entire 8 years………doesn’t fit the narrative.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
7:12 pm
“Just goes to show you what a lucky rascal President Clinton was, ”
Not so much Clinton understood and executed the basic law of cash flow…grow revenue faster than expenses and it works out. Duhbya pi$$ed all over that from day 1. Tax cuts, ending paygo and unfunded wars, part d etc…
Duhbya trashed a system that was in balance and caused the vast majority of the budget issues we face today.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
7:12 pm
Not to mention that the Clinton administration never had to deal with the aftermath of 9/11.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 27th, 2012
7:14 pm
JDW – And the false economy of the dot com boom offered no assistance to Clinton at all did it?
Linda
November 27th, 2012
7:18 pm
JDW@7:00, I’ve already told you several times today to sling your mud on the minions, not me. I’ll make a deal with you. If you will stop calling me “too ignorant” & stop trying to educate me & stop trying to sway me to the asinine liberal agenda, which will result in the demise of the US of America, I will refrain from placing you on the prayer list for my subdivision & those beyond, not that you don’t need to be placed there, but as a gesture of good will, during this season of compassion.
I take that back. You are hereby prayed for by our subdivision. May you atone for your sins & may your sins be forgiven.
mike
November 27th, 2012
7:27 pm
Linda: “Any disruption of oil right now will plummet the US economy into doldrums.” I agree.
Are you saying that if we remove all of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan (which doesn’t have any oil) that the world will end as we know it?
mike
November 27th, 2012
7:28 pm
Here’s some interesting reading for you, Linda, and anyone else concerned with our energy future.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-20/germany-s-clean-energy-transforms-industrial-city-of-hamburg.html
With that, I’m out of here. Goodnight.
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
7:33 pm
I tell you who is over paid is doctors if you want to pick on someone how about lawyers you do their work then you pay them ! Some don’t know how they got their if your on Medicare look out you will be treated for 15 minutes the nurses do just about all the work !And if your sick in a Hospital you better get a friend to come check on you they treat us like dirt all those old people are dirt to a doctor hope your friend comes see you in the Hospital
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
7:38 pm
Free stuff air time with others maybe they will make you a sandwich.
Get a money tree at Home Depot
md
November 27th, 2012
7:42 pm
They treat you like dirt because the feds have been lowering the re-reimbursement rates steadily for decades……and the folks that want obamacare won’t know what hit them……docs/hospitals/nursing homes all know who is paying the freight, and it is their private pays….the system is about to get even worse with all the new medicaid rejections, watch as the docs bail from the system.
Linda
November 27th, 2012
7:44 pm
mike(with a little m)@7:27, You are confusing Iraq & Afghanistan with our oil interests. The US has been spending an average of $50 B per year for decades protecting our oil interests in the Middle East, which has amounted to TRILLIONS of dollars. The entire world is laughing at us.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304441404577480952719124264.html
The problem is that Obama & the Democrats are allergic to fossil fuels & have waged a war on them. The Obamamobiles will not sustain us for many years to come, especially since consumers hate them. We are a Ford truck nation.
Hillbilly D
November 27th, 2012
7:50 pm
We are a Ford truck nation.
Only thing you can put a load on, as George used to say.
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
8:04 pm
People are hungry and starving here also and are Americans! We need to help the red white and blue as well as the Different countries has any other Nationality ever help you out of their heart???
carlosgvv
November 27th, 2012
8:10 pm
Chessy – 6:35
Soldiers can be in a fire fight and run out of ammo. The lieutenant then will yell out “fixed bayonets”. If the enemy also runs out of ammo at the same time, you may be sure they will come after you with their bayonets. Youe own rifle with bayonet is what will save your life.
It’s virtually certain a rich kid like you wouldn’t be caught dead anywhere near a military recruiting office. Still, you spout off about military and other matters as though you’re an expert.
You’re only fooling the ignorant here, sporty.
yuzeyurbrane
November 27th, 2012
8:22 pm
Kyle, you are just incorrect in your “facts”. Obamacare includes financing provisions which actually not only make it financially sustainable but reduce the budget deficit as compared to doing nothing, per the Congressional Budget Office’s neutral scoring. Also, there seems to be price estimate creep at the AJC. Its articles have variously cited a cost to Georgia of $1.8 billion, $2.2 billion and now your $2.5 billion. Gov. Deal’s spokesman estimated over $4 billion based on their general experience of what happens to these type programs. Now, that is faith-based on the right’s alternative universe. As to the value of the Fed. input I have seen your $33 billion and others significantly higher, especially when factoring in the multiplier effect in the economy and new state tax revenues they would generate. Kyle, explain to me. I’m willing to listen. But I think its just arithmetic and I observe that your college major was journalism, not math.
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
8:27 pm
Dose anyone care about the men at war their children and wife’s ?????
Terry Bradshaw
November 27th, 2012
8:40 pm
I had a educated Liberal tell me “that all the Government has to do is print more money!” With this mentality & being qualified to vote………. we are all doomed!
Jack ®
November 27th, 2012
8:47 pm
Mr. W, didn’t you know that Obama can pull a rabbit out of a high-hat? Didn’t you know that he can wave his little old wand and money will appear right before your very eyes? The man is a magician.
ODD OWL
November 27th, 2012
9:06 pm
Nathan Deal is a ideologically tainted, tea party Republican… He rejected $14 billion dollars in Federal funds to set up ObamaCare healthcare exchanges and to cover medicaid expansion… The Georgia Republican Congressional delegation rejected Democrat stimulus money to fix roads and rebuild the infrustructure.. Sonny Perdue stole $1 billion dollars from the highway repair fund and gave it to the rich and elite as tax cuts.. Now Georgia state roads are deteriorating, but instead of repaving the entire road with asphalt, the Republicans are patching them with rough gravel, the way they did back in the ’50’s… Deal no deal and the Republicans who control the state legislature are naive, gullible, bloviating ignoramuses… Democrats make up 49% of the population of Georgia and we will not allow these sucessionist Republicans to drag our mordern lifestyle back into the 1840’s…
Del
November 27th, 2012
9:39 pm
“Or do they think Georgia taxpayers will truly believe someone else will handle that federal portion of the cost?”
Kyle, of course they think so, liberals are programmed to believe that taxing high income earners is the solution to every federal government spending program.
Dr Who
November 27th, 2012
9:42 pm
“watch as the docs bail from the system.”
When is this going to start? Are med school applications down or up across the country?
Dr Who
November 27th, 2012
9:46 pm
Del
Are tax rates higher or lower than they have been in the last 50yrs? That is for individual and corporate rates?
Dr Who
November 27th, 2012
9:53 pm
Del
Speaking of “programmed to believe”; you seem to be nothing more than a right wing, walking and talking point.
nelson
November 27th, 2012
9:56 pm
I was one of the first recipients when medicaid first was enacted. went to the dentist for a filling. When he saw the medicaid card he said why have a filling when you can have a crown. That was gold. I knew then, what everyone knows now, it is a force in bankrupting the country.
Dr Who
November 27th, 2012
10:01 pm
nelson
So was that the dentist’s deception and fraud or the government?
Did you agree to it and assist in defrauding the government?
the red herring
November 27th, 2012
10:10 pm
obama has 6 trillion in debt in 4 years—figure adding that much more in the next 4. how long do you think china will pay for our healthcare. how long before our money is worthless? how long before interest begins to climb and all this costs much, much more? we need to get back to basics, live within our means and let those who want insurance get a job and go out and buy it. obama’s plan is give free stuff to enough people and they will vote your way—it worked. the taxpayers will pay for it dearly. sad state of affairs for this country but the upcoming depression will change some peoples minds—i believe we will see similar riots to those in greece. once the free feed trough dries up there will be chaos. those of us clinging to our guns and liberties will be the only ones safe.
Dr Who
November 27th, 2012
10:15 pm
red herring
You are funny. Since you think it is all doom and gloom, don’t do anything drastic and put yourself 6′ under.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 27th, 2012
10:17 pm
jconservative: We have made some progress on deficit/debt in the last couple of years.
—————–
Oh? How does Obozo having increased federal spending by $500 billion per year constitute “progress” on deficit/debt?
md
November 27th, 2012
10:25 pm
“When is this going to start? Are med school applications down or up across the country?”
Started years ago……no reason to believe it won’t get worse as the medicaid rolls swell. We have plenty of docs, but they do not all service medicare/caid patients. It is medicaid that will be expanding due to obamacare and medicare due to baby boomers……
And as I said, it is due to the ever increasing reductions in reimbursement rates. It is an illusion that makes it look as if the gov’t is holding down costs to providers when in actuality those providers just jack up the fees on everyone else to make up the difference.
Dr Who
November 27th, 2012
10:32 pm
md
Within 10 yrs we will be headed to single payer. The hard left wants to thank the right for fighting Obamacare every step of the way. Obamacare is nothing but a treasure chest for the insurance companies.
I’m not a single payer guy but the right is going to wish that they had worked better on this issue when they had Bush and a Republican Congress.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 27th, 2012
10:35 pm
Perhaps someone can explain how the Messiah’s most excellent health care plan, sure to be a huge, deficit-reducing success, will result in single payer.
ScottNATL
November 27th, 2012
10:44 pm
First…the governments money doesn’t come from taxes…they print it…called fiat currency…so all this talk about the debt is a bunch of bs in the long run (and before anyone starts on the inflation train…show me the inflation…the Fed has been trying to raise capitol levels for a couple of years already…but very little if any inflation) 600,000 Georgians might not agree with the governor when election time comes around again since that would be about the number left without insurance. I guess the Mitt emergency room is going to be their primary care giver (at aprox 30x the cost)
Alter Ego
November 27th, 2012
10:45 pm
Obamacare is front loaded. The real costs come down the road, beyond FY 2016, when the emphasis shifts from preventative to more expensive care. It doesn’t matter that the Feds pay 90% of it when the real dollar cost will escalate. As a governor, Deal and the other state leaders are doing exactly the right thing in not rushing to embrace what could become an unsustainable burden for the state.
Kyle also neglected to mention SSDI. Over 5.4 MM have been added to the roles under Obama’s first term, with an average age of 49, and 99% who never return to the workforce. SSDI enrollees can qualify for it in two years, and the growth trends are unsustainable.
Elections Have Consequences
November 27th, 2012
10:48 pm
@Lil’ Barry Bailout
Sure-by eliminating the competition-just like everything works in Chicago politics..
Alter Ego
November 27th, 2012
10:49 pm
@ScottNATL – Been to the grocery store lately?
An Observer
November 27th, 2012
10:51 pm
I am proud of governor Deal, and I hope he does not change his mind. We cannot bankrupt Georgia on a whim of Washington and their love of deficit spending.
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
10:53 pm
Enter your comments here
Hey maybe Clark Howard should run would anyone voted for him I would
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
11:12 pm
We would all have green houses
yuzeyurbrane
November 27th, 2012
11:36 pm
To those of you who say MD’s will not participate in Medicaid or Medicare, you are oversimplifying the facts. Medicaid patients continue to get care even though the pay rate for docs is much lower than Medicare. The statistics presently show most docs accepting Medicare. It varies among specialties. A hip or knee surgeon cannot afford to exclude Medicare patients. A sports medicine specialist might be able to do without older patients. Before Medicare, docs made respectable upper middle class incomes; now they are often millionaires. Those who are attracted to medicine as a road to riches may instead become stockbrokers; those remaining may be more loyal to altruistic urges, like they used to be, and be satisfied with an upper middle class lifestyle. Medical schools are packed so there is no evidence that prospective doctors are being deterred by a fear of Obamacare or Medicare. The truth is the path to bringing medical costs under control is to weed out the greedy. Dr. Tom Price doesn’t like this for obvious reasons.
Mike C.
November 28th, 2012
12:58 am
Whole point of Obamacare is moot for now.
There is currently a lawsuite meandering through the courts which has to do with the fact that Obamacare originated in the Senate and not the House (as the law requires all tax and spending bills).
Since it did not originate in the House, the law is illegal.
Until that is resolved, everything else is a non argument.
Buzzy
November 28th, 2012
1:10 am
The Republican cult just can’t let “Obamacare” go, can they? No matter how pathetic this continued whining makes them look, they just can’t let it go.
Wake up folks, the President won handily. People didn’t fall for your attempt to bash Obamacare.
Let it go.
ODD OWL
November 28th, 2012
1:46 am
Georgia is aready a bankrupted, welfare state… Gov. No Deal will be forced by the Feds. to accept ObamaCare/Medicaid money or he will be forced to stand down and a Federal administrator will be sent in to administer all state and local business… China hold only 7% of America’s debt… 75% of our debt is held by Americans…The Bush/Cheney Republicans dumped $11 trillion dollars worth of debt into the lap of President Obama and the Democrats, add to that $2 trillion in interest = $13 trillion dollars of Republican debt… President Obama added only $3 trillion dollars to the national debt… The President has actually paid down the debt by $1 trillion and the yearly deficit by $300 billion… Greece invested their social security and pension money in the stock market… They purchased mortgage derivative bonds from American banks… Now suppose the American people had been stupid enough to listen to that ignoramus Bush and allowed him to invest our social security money in the stock market… America would be Greece on steroids today… “News Alert” The corporate bosses are ripping off their employees with these 401-K retirement accounts… The average amount of money an employee have in their 401-K account when they retire is a puny $80.000… A Union pension fund is the safest place to put your retirement money…
ODD OWL
November 28th, 2012
1:56 am
The stock market crash every ten years or there about… When the stock market goes up, so do your 401-K… when the stock market goes down, your 401-K goes down and you must start all over again… The 401-K is a catch-22 vicious circle…
Joel Edge
November 28th, 2012
6:09 am
Even the locals where I live talk about money from the feds like it’s money that drops from the sky. Oye!!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 28th, 2012
6:56 am
“Gov. No Deal will be forced by the Feds. to accept ObamaCare/Medicaid money or he will be forced to stand down and a Federal administrator will be sent in to administer all state and local business”
This is the kind of dictatorship people on the left really desire. Do as we say, or else.
It’s all about CONTROL with these people.
Attack Dog
November 28th, 2012
8:11 am
How does the Dixiecancare plan address the following issues? 1. What to do about the $49 billion in medical bills of the uninsured annually? 2. What to do about paying for the $100 billion annually for the underinsured? 3. What to do about paying for people who are underpaid at places at Wal-Mart, just so that they can go on Mediaid? 4. What to do about paying for medical over diagnosis? 5. What to do about fraud? 6. What to do about insurance companies raising rates by 20% and now we have an average annual cost of “medical insurance” exceeding $15,000 per person? 7. What to do about insuring insurance companies spend the most of our premiums on health? 8. How do we cover economic impact of people going bankrupt because of health care costs?
1961_Xer
November 28th, 2012
8:36 am
JDW writes: @1961X_er…”In socialized medicine, which is what ObamaCare is”
Wrong attribution. I never called ObamaCare “socialized medicine”. It is more like “socialized insurance” than socialized medicine.
md
November 28th, 2012
8:45 am
Just call it what it is…..socialized medicine. Socializing the payment method IS socialized medicine, regardless how the payment gets there.
Madmax
November 28th, 2012
9:04 am
Kyle,
Why is it that none of the “found money” advocates ever explain how we’re going to pay for this new spending? Or do they think Georgia taxpayers will truly believe someone else will handle that federal portion of the cost?
They will just print more money and/or confiscate more money from the private sector because it’s the “right thing to do” and blame Bush/tax cuts/war/the right for being obstructionist and the cause of all ills that befall us – not a problem to our left brain thinkers.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 28th, 2012
9:10 am
When will Obozo show us his plan for avoiding the fiscal cliff?
Madmax
November 28th, 2012
9:12 am
Barry – you already know his plan – blame Bush/Republicans and go on a speaking tour.
JDW
November 28th, 2012
9:35 am
@md…”Just call it what it is…..socialized medicine. Socializing the payment method IS socialized medicine, regardless how the payment gets there.”
If you are going to toss word around you need to understand the meaning and I think you need a basic definition…
Socialized-To place under government or group ownership or control.
NOTHING about Obamacare places healthcare under government or group ownership or control. The act simply makes it a requirement that people own PRIVATE health insurance and SUBSIDIZES (note the proper word) that purchase for those with lower incomes. The government has taken no control of the mechanisms of delivering health care and other than creating payment standards for Medicare, as does EVERY insurance provider, exerts no control over pricing.
CC
November 28th, 2012
9:55 am
“NOTHING about Obamacare places healthcare under government or group ownership or control.”
I hereby place this statement into nomination as the “dumbest statement of the year”!
JDW
November 28th, 2012
9:56 am
@CC…what part is it about PRIVATE INSURANCE that you don’t understand?
md
November 28th, 2012
10:12 am
JDW…..you are fooling no one but yourself.
Paying for subsidies and expanding the rolls of medicaid by forcing others to pay for it is basic socialism…….you can wordsmith all day and night and the underlying principal does not change.
breckenridge
November 28th, 2012
10:14 am
As a nation we need to make a concerted effort to stop Medicaid growth. 40% of kids born in America today are born to parents or a parent on Medicaid. That’s why, as a fiscal conservative, I’m call on the republican party to promote strong pro-birth control, pro-abortion policies for couples and singles who cannot afford to raise children without help from taxpayers.
md
November 28th, 2012
10:16 am
“Socialized-To place under government or group ownership or control”
And what do you think they did?
A gov’t mandate/tax IS gov’t control……….
md
November 28th, 2012
10:18 am
“40% of kids born in America today are born to parents or a parent on Medicaid.”
I think the question then becomes how many are unwanted……if it’s a small percent, then the solution is not providing birth control, the problem would still exist.
Linda
November 28th, 2012
10:25 am
ODD@1:46, You can’t spread lies on a conservative blog without being exposed for what you are.
$4.899 was added to the natl. debt in 8 yrs. of the Bush adm.
$5.7 T has been added to the natl. debt in less than 4 yrs. of the Obama adm.
Since the natl. debt was $5.728 T when Bush was elected, Obama has actually doubled the entire debt of the US than was racked up under the first 42 presidents.
Interest is not in a separate debt account.
Obama has not paid down a cent of the debt & his annual deficits have exceeded over $1 T each & every year.
md
November 28th, 2012
10:28 am
Here JDW, I’ll help you understand what you yourself just wrote:
“NOTHING about Obamacare places healthcare under government or group ownership or control. The act simply makes it a requirement that people own PRIVATE health insurance and SUBSIDIZES (note the proper word) that purchase for those with lower incomes.”
Start with the operative word in the second sentence…..”requirement”, means no choice, or simply “control”.
The act now controls what we can and can’t do and “requires” us to pay for others that can’t/won’t pay for themselves.
Sorry fella, but that is SOCIALIZING the program……….
JDW
November 28th, 2012
10:45 am
@md…”The act now controls what we can and can’t do and “requires” us to pay for others that can’t/won’t pay for themselves. Sorry fella, but that is SOCIALIZING the program……….”
No more than requiring car insurance is socializing driving or requiring hunting licenses is socializing hunting or requiring a business license is socializing business. All we are talking about here is setting standards which is what government does. If you can’t see that you need to open your eyes.
md
November 28th, 2012
11:01 am
“No more than requiring car insurance is socializing driving or requiring hunting licenses is socializing hunting or requiring a business license is socializing business. All we are talking about here is setting standards which is what government does. If you can’t see that you need to open your eyes.”
Wrong, wrong and wrong……..we don’t have to drive a car, or go hunting or have a business…..all choices that we still have.
Not so with obamacare, the choice has been totally removed…..the TAX will be paid.
From the Center
November 28th, 2012
11:14 am
ScottNATL
November 27th, 2012
10:44 pm
First…the governments money doesn’t come from taxes…they print it…called fiat currency
Scott, thats great news, I guess we can all stop paying taxes, stop worrying about the fiscal cliff and spend like drunken sailors.
Buff
November 28th, 2012
3:52 pm
This is a VERY complicated issue. But, there are many aspects to the Medicaid “expansion”. There are required increases in payments to primary care physicians that WILL take place 1/1/13. In many cases an increase of 20%. This is supposed to be in the part that will be 100% funded by the feds (I know it is still our tax $). But this will happen regardless of what the State decides to do. There are other aspects of the Medicaid expansion that are 100% funded by the feds. HOWEVER, it only applies to the existing Medicaid-eligeble population that is actually participating in Medicaid. Therefore, if only 70% (just a guess) of the eligible population currently participates, the other 30% (when they sign up) comes out of the State’s pocket. This is the part that everyone supporting the expansion misses. The expansion IS NOT 100% funded by the Feds, there are huge $’s that the State will likely have to find to fund its part, some without participating in the expansion, a lot more if the expansion occurs (with participation increasing).
Sorting out the ‘we’ in Medicaid expansionists’ claims | Kyle Wingfield
November 29th, 2012
5:04 am
[...] that $1 billion a year in savings to the estimated $95 billion a year Obamacare would spend to expand [...]
What the Rick Scott Decision Says About the Future of Health Care in the U.S. | The Health Care Blog
November 29th, 2012
11:22 am
[...] Yet liberals’ overwhelming support for state Medicaid expansion, amid Washington’s persistent deficits, raises the question: Where will these Medicaid dollars come from, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s Kyle Wingfield writes. [...]
Carly EngageAmerica
November 29th, 2012
4:52 pm
The reelection of President Obama provides a clear passage for health care reform. However, this massive top-down reform comes with major structural flaws.
The ACA promises what it cannot deliver. The reform increases demand while the supply of health care services remains stagnant.