A question for those who say expanding Medicaid is a no-brainer
Liberal think tanks and columnists have been cranking out the arguments about why a state like Georgia would be foolish to reject Obamacare’s expansion of Medicaid. The expansion, which was made optional for states in the Supreme Court’s June ruling upholding the bulk of the law, would cost Georgia an estimated $2.5 billion over 10 years, according to state officials. Gov. Nathan Deal has said our state will not participate, but Obamacare supporters are trying to pressure him to change his mind.
Proponents of the expansion say hospitals and doctors in the state would receive an additional $33 billion in federal funds during that time frame. To hear them tell it, this is tantamount to finding $33 billion in between the couch cushions; they never mention whose pockets it’s falling from.
“The economics of this are very strongly in favor of adopting the expansion,” said John Holahan, study co-author and director of health policy research at the Urban Institute, in a recent AJC story. Holahan’s study puts the total federal cost of expanding Medicaid via Obamacare at $952 billion over 10 years if all 50 states participate. That’s a 26 percent increase on top of what’s already one of the federal government’s fastest-growing budget items. And, for you non-math majors, that comes out to $95.2 billion per year on average.
But here’s my question: Where do we find another $95.2 billion per year in a Washington that is currently:
- running annual deficits of at least $1 trillion;
- trying desperately to avoid an automatic spending cut (the “sequester” portion of the fiscal cliff) that would shave about $133 billion per year on average (over the next nine years);
- and discussing tax increases on “the rich” that would raise, at most, $160 billion per year?
No one in Washington seems to be talking seriously about deeper spending cuts or sharper tax increases than these, so we are talking about continuing to run annual deficits of well over half a trillion dollars before tacking on $95.2 billion in new Medicaid spending.
And remember: This is just the Medicaid portion of Obamacare. We’re not talking about subsidies for the federal exchanges or new costs for long-term care.
Why is it that none of the “found money” advocates ever explain how we’re going to pay for this new spending? Or do they think Georgia taxpayers will truly believe someone else will handle that federal portion of the cost?
– By Kyle Wingfield
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308 comments Add your comment
mike
November 27th, 2012
4:38 pm
Kyle, I’m not sure I understand your question. One thing I am sure of is that if there was ever an area of government that needs to be cut, it is the military and bogus “homeland security.” Notice that the nearly $1 trillion of YEARLY spending on the military/security complex DOES NOT INCLUDE interest on prior indebtedness caused by military/security spending.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:39 pm
@Tiberius…”EVERY market will be affected by the coming recession”
The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling…arhhhggghhh Obama arhhggghh Obama…o’ wait…actual forecasts….
Real GDP growth
2013: 1.8 percent
2014: 2.9 percent
2015: 3.2 percent
2016: 3.7 percent
2017: 3.9 percent
2013 inflation
1.4 percent
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/socgen-global-economic-outlook-2013-2017-2012-11?op=1#ixzz2DSfq43G5
oppps never mind.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
4:39 pm
“We are doomed.”
Living seems to beat the alternative, so hang in there.
mike
November 27th, 2012
4:42 pm
BTW if you are planning on buying a lottery ticket for the Powerball drawing, I have some odds for you:
If you don’t play your odds of winning are:
0.00000000000000000000 (zero)
If you buy a single ticket your odds of winning are:
0.00000000571428571429 (not much better)
GOOD LUCK!
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:43 pm
@Dusty…”911 get help for JDW”
Ok its second grade math for you…which statement results in the minimum expenditure for Georgians…
$55.8 – 0 = $55.8 spent
$56.9 – $33 = $23.9 spent
Pick the one you want…it’s simple math (I know Repugs have a tough time with math)..clock is ticking…tick…tock
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 27th, 2012
4:45 pm
In case you missed it, JDW, there is no such thing as “actual” “forecasts”.
“Actual” is reality.
“Forecasts” are predictions, and in government’s case, usually wrong.
Linda
November 27th, 2012
4:48 pm
mike(with a little m)@4:42, has come up with a way for the fed. govt. to pay for .00000000000001 of Obamacare.
Now, if Chicago thuggery could nudge the outcome!
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:50 pm
@Kyle..”And how much do the states spend on education compared to defense?”
Remarkably we spend almost the same on both. When you add Federal, State and Local spending we spend $2,885 on Education and $2,847 on Defense.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year_spending_2013USdn_13ds1n#usgs302
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:50 pm
Sorry those numbers are per capita
mike
November 27th, 2012
4:51 pm
But, if you take those odds and multiply them by the potential payout of $500,000,000.00 it actually makes playing worthwhile.
0.00000000571428571429 x $500,000,000.00 = $2.857142857 > $1.00 (cost of ticket)
JDW
November 27th, 2012
4:51 pm
@Tiberius…”Forecasts” are predictions, and in government’s case, usually wrong.”
Unlike the ones you make which are ALWAYS wrong.
md
November 27th, 2012
4:54 pm
“0.00000000571428571429 (not much better)”
Yet someone beats those odds every time there is a winner…….hence the reason folks should go spend their $2…..
mike
November 27th, 2012
4:57 pm
md: is it $2.00 to play Powerball? I don’t ever play, so I don’t know.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
4:57 pm
THE CONSTITUTION
I believe what we are entitled to is written quite clearly in the Constitution. Nowhere does it mention healthcare. That is because those smart people who wrote the Constitution thought we were able to feed ourselves, take general care of ourselves and desired freedom to make our own choices and decisions.
Our founders never pictured one half of our citizens being dependent on others for care. They knew that such a state is not independent and that is the foundation of our country.
It is time to speak of independence and self reliance. If you don’t believe it, look around at other countries who also got “dependent”. We don’t want to be like them, broke and mobbed. Well, most of us don’t.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
5:02 pm
Hey Dusty…Newsflash….Obama won…Obamacare is here to stay…Georgians will pay thier share of the bill, only question is will they get thier share of the benefits…tick tock…tick tock
Linda
November 27th, 2012
5:02 pm
Liberals have no problem doing the math to fund trillions of dollars in new spending but can’t subtract 7.8% from 7.9% & explain why the Obama adm. has not created one, single, net new job in almost 4 years.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
5:03 pm
The Constitution doesn’t mention a lot of things, however that doesn’t mean that numerous laws are not on the books and have been declared legal by State, Federal and Supreme Court decisions eventhough there is a direct reference in the “Constitution”.
So what exactly is your point? I’m sure you might have one. It would be a surprise if it were of sound logic, but a point nonetheless.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
5:04 pm
JDW
Simple math
When you have 0$, and add 0$ , then the answe is 0$. In debt means broke =ZERO $$$.
Basicly, our country is broke. Georgia is broke. Act like it!!
Greece is broke. Spain is broke. Observe!!
Kyle Wingfield
November 27th, 2012
5:04 pm
JDW @ 4:50: My point exactly. To mike: We don’t spend a lot more on defense than we do education; we divide the responsibility for each differently. Defense is a federal responsibility and education is a state one. That’s federalism.
1961_Xer
November 27th, 2012
5:05 pm
Having INSURANCE for healthcare does not guarantee that you will get it. Maybe! But doctors, hospitals , health workers are not happy and are not plentiful in many areas.
In socialized medicine, which is what ObamaCare is, you do not often see the doctor. You will see aids, nurses,physician’s assistants, and other workers but the doctor will be busy doing paper work so the place can be approved. Right now you can do just as well to go to a drug store with “someone” who can give you shots. That is the kind of medicine you are going to get and you asked for it. Get used to ti. .
Bingo. People STILL have not let that little tidbit sink in. Everyone thinks that they are going to be able to go the the best doctors and get all the care they ever needed. It is only a matter of time before ALL doctors are overwhelmed and care is rationed. Insurance does not equal care. Insurance does no good if there is no doctor or no medical facility…. but now everyone gets to pay whether the medical infrastructure exists to deliver care for you or not.
Care will become just like schools. If you are in Zipcode xxxxx, then you go to this public school whether is is good/bad/failing. If it is a failing school… sucks to be you. If you are in Zipcode xxxxx, you will get to go to doctor A, B or C. If docs A, B, C are marginally competent, sucks to be you.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
5:05 pm
@Linda…O’ Dear
Could it have, maybe, just maybe had something to do with the fact the Duhbya RAN THE ECONOMY IN A DITCH and it took almost two years to get back to positive growth…yeah thats it.
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:05 pm
Our projected tax revenues including payroll taxes for 2013 are $2.9 trillion. Ex-payroll taxes, our projected tax revenues are $1.95 trillion. Does it really make sense to spend OVER HALF of all INCOME taxes on the military/security complex? Do we have our priorities mixed up?
http://nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/revenues/
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
5:06 pm
there is no direct reference, not “a direct reference…..”
JDW
November 27th, 2012
5:06 pm
@Kyle…”My point exactly.”
Suprised me. I would have bet we spend more on education.
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:08 pm
OK, Kyle, I understand what you’re saying, education is mainly a local expenditure rather than a Federal one.
JDW
November 27th, 2012
5:09 pm
@1961X_er…”In socialized medicine, which is what ObamaCare is”
Could you ’splain how purchasing insurance from third parties is “socialized medicine”. In case I missed something could you shoot me the address of the government operated health facility that serves Buckhead. I am feeling a bit under the weather today.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
5:12 pm
Dusty
Not sure if you heard, but a right leaning Supreme Court has ruled that Obamacare is legal under the Constitution of the United States. Of course that went against the conventional wisdom, rhetoric, hyperbole and bs from many on the right, but in fact it was ruled legal.
So what exactly is your point again?
JDW
November 27th, 2012
5:13 pm
@Dusty….”Simple math When you have 0$, and add 0$ , then the answe is 0$. In debt means broke =ZERO $$$.”
I see the problem we need third grade math. When you have 0 and borrow $55.8 billion you have a negative $55.8 billion. On the other hand if borrow $56.9 billion and you get $33 billion of it back then you only have a negative $23.9 billion.
You can only choose one…which do you perfer…tick tock…tick tock
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:13 pm
If you want to know who’s REALLY paying the taxes in this country take a look at this graphic:
http://nationalpriorities.org/media/uploads/federal_budget_101/Figure5.3.png
All this hogwash about the United States having the highest corporate tax rates in the world is a bunch of, well, hogwash! It’s the American public, the public that gets up and goes to a job and earns wages that’s paying the taxes in this country.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
5:15 pm
JDW
PS…I heard aboutObamaCare. I haven’ t heard how they are going to pay for it yet
———————
Oh ye of small things, I don’t read LABELS that don’t believe in the Constitution. The Big C covers the big thngs. Americans abide by the Constitutiion, not try to get around it. I guess you are from elsewhere….
.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
5:19 pm
“The Big C covers the big thngs.”
And the Supreme Court ruled it “covered”
But nice try. Stay in the shallow water with your floaties on. Would like for you to stay safe and sound.
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
5:22 pm
JDW
Insurance is on the pay end. It does not guarantee the medical services you can receive will be professional. Sorry, bub, head to the drug store for your healthcare. . Get ready for “state medicine” a la cheapo. You are going to love what you begged for…..
Linda
November 27th, 2012
5:25 pm
JDW@5:05, Bush cut taxes & the result was economic growth, lower unemployment & the highest tax revenues in the history of the country.
I’ve already told you once today: go spread your propaganda on the minions.
But if you’re right, that “it took almost two years to get back to positive growth,” where is it? Moss on a tree?
TRUTH
November 27th, 2012
5:26 pm
Wow, Kyle and other Republicans on this blog….imagine an America where medical care is FREE TO ALL!! Hmmm, of course there would be an increase in taxes for all (which I suspect would be CHEAPER than a premium from your average health insurer). But an America where EVERY AMERICAN can go to a doctor, get treatment, and meds, and stay around a little longer. How about that?? How about healthier employees for the workplace? Healthier kids? Healthier women? Healthier men? I think it would free small businesses up to hire, frankly. Maybe put a little extra in an employees pocket (at least that what the GOP talking points are – if there was no Obamacare, then small biz could start hiring again).
Guess that was another GOP myth. You R’s are literally shooting your own selves in the foot. And because you’re now the minority, that means you don’t get your way.
SINGLE PAYER, NOW!
Kyle Wingfield
November 27th, 2012
5:26 pm
mike @ 5:13: Do you realize that graph has nothing to do with what our corporate tax rate is? And it really doesn’t have anything to do with what other countries’ corporate tax rate is?
Kyle Wingfield
November 27th, 2012
5:29 pm
TRUTH @ 5:26: I recommend checking out what even the middle class in other countries pays in taxes to get health care before declaring it “FREE TO ALL!!” or saying people will have more money in their pockets.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
5:31 pm
kyle
You are correct in terms of what mike posted, however you are fully aware that when the right touts the US corporate tax rate as being the highest that they are being disingenuous. When looking at the effective rates, we are not even close.
One can argue that we need to change the loopholes and maybe lower the rate, but when the right touts the corporate rate issue, they are not being intellectually honest in the least.
md
November 27th, 2012
5:32 pm
“md: is it $2.00 to play Powerball? I don’t ever play, so I don’t know.”
It better be since that is what they charged me when I threw a $5 bill on the counter for my 5 quick picks……boy did I look silly.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
5:33 pm
JDW@5:05, Bush cut taxes & the result was economic growth, lower unemployment & the highest tax revenues in the history of the country.
Maybe the funniest thing ive ever heard.
Top tax rates were 77 percent under JFK.
They are at the lowest in history now and we are drowning in debt.
Coincidence. Hardly.
I love how Republican are not wanting to raise the Top Tax rates to 39.6 where they were under Clinton the last time we actually balanced the books.
They talk of closing loopholes.
Bunch of BS. They might close them for a minute but in a few years when no one is looking they will just create other ones. How do you think they got there in the first place?
Meanwhile in this country a man like Mitt Romney pays half the tax rate I do.
Shameful.
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:34 pm
Kyle, yeah, after I posted it that thought did occur to me. I’ll post an actual average corporate tax rate next.
Black Label
November 27th, 2012
5:34 pm
Kyle
Maybe you can do an article pertaining to “nominal vs effective corporate tax rates” in the US.
I’m not saying there isn’t room for improvement, because there is, but again I will say that the rhetoric in terms of how it is spewed by many on the right is not intellectually honest in regards to the facts.
JamVet
November 27th, 2012
5:35 pm
Dusty, you are a fool if you think (and I use that word loosely) that the current healthcare system in this country is not a wreck.
Even Mitt Romney knew that when he was in Massachusetts and tried to fix it. Then he went rogue and self-destructed via spineless contortions on the national stage.
Great entertainment.
To which I say to you Republicans, keep up the good work!
McCarthy/Crow 2016.
JamVet
November 27th, 2012
5:37 pm
Kyle and mike, do you know what our average marginal corporate tax rate in this country is?
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:37 pm
“Corporations in the U.S. paid only an average of 12.1 percent in taxes on the profits they earned inside the U.S in fiscal 2011, according to statistics from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).
The Wall Street Journal reports that it’s the lowest percentage corporations have paid on those profits since at least 1972, and it’s less than half of the 25.6 percent they paid on average between 1987 and 2008.
Corporations saw their profits, however, reach an all-time high at the end of 2010. The $1.68 trillion in annualized profits in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2010 beat the previous record of $1.65 trillion in the third quarter of 2006.”
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/average-corporate-tax-rate-falls-12-lowest-d
A far cry from 35% wouldn’t you say?
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 27th, 2012
5:38 pm
Every other advanced country in the world has Universal Healthcare and they seem to do just fine.
In fact im sure we seem like animals to them.
Linda
November 27th, 2012
5:38 pm
mike(with a little m)@5:13, I hope that you are finally realizing that the top 2 tax brackets, that Obama is bent & determined to tax, pay 44 % of the personal income taxes. How will raising taxes on 44% of the economy help the economy?
Dusty
November 27th, 2012
5:41 pm
1961__Xer
Glad to see you understand the pitfalls of socialized. medicine quite well. Poor liberals even think it is going to be a “freebie”. Now that is going to be a rude awakening. Not going to be a happy day for many reasons.
Now all we have to do is wait for the Supreme Court to tell us how to pay for this “benevolence”… That will be the day with our 16 trillion$$$ debt already growing rapidly. .
Lynnie Gal
November 27th, 2012
5:43 pm
It’s a shame that our governor and his party does not want the people of Georgia to have healthcare when their employers do not offer it, and that the rest of Americans get the benefit of having healthcare. Our governor and his party are trying to keep us impoverished by refusing this federal money for the health of Georgians.
mike
November 27th, 2012
5:43 pm
Linda: I’m in favor of letting ALL of the Bush tax cuts expire. ON EVERYONE.
I’m also in favor of trimming our military/security budget by 50%. The combination of those two would go a long way towards getting our fiscal house in order.
Hopeful
November 27th, 2012
5:46 pm
This is a sad time for all true red blooded Americans! Everything has taxes on it you can’t win