Some questions for those pursuing a new Falcons stadium

Gov. Nathan Deal recently said “there’s got to be a little further explanation to the public, and probably to the members of the General Assembly,” as to why tax dollars should be used to replace the Georgia Dome before its 25th birthday. He’s right.

That explanation must come from the Georgia World Congress Authority, the state agency that runs the Dome, and/or the Atlanta Falcons, the loudest voice calling for the Dome’s replacement with a $1 billion, retractable-roof stadium. About $300 million of that cost would be paid by Atlanta hotel/motel tax revenues, but only if legislators and Deal agree to raise the authority’s bonding limit. The Falcons and the NFL would cover the rest.

I’m hardly naive about the ability of powerful people to get what they want, and Falcons owner Arthur Blank no doubt qualifies as just such a person. So does Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed, who backs the project. And I’m hardly a supporter of ditching the Dome, as I’ve written before.

But if the GWCA and the Falcons decide to heed these admonitions and make their case publicly, here are two questions they might answer.

Why now?

The Dome opened just 20 years ago and has undergone at least one significant renovation. I attended two football games there just last year — and plan to be there again for next month’s Southeastern Conference football championship — and can attest it’s a fine place to watch a football game.

So far, the primary rationale for the proposed timeline of opening a new stadium by 2017 is that’s when the bonds for the Dome will be paid off. Well, that and the fact the Falcons believe they can make more money from a new, more modern stadium, and would like to start doing so ASAP.

But the Falcons’ profitability is of little concern to Atlantans, and we aren’t required to have debt obligations tied to a stadium every year. There are many ways the city could use several million dollars a year even if it the money were freed only temporarily.

(Yes, using the hotel/motel revenues for other purposes would require a change in state law. So would raising the GWCA’s bonding capacity.)

Even if we accept the need for a new stadium at some point, there’s the question of why tax dollars should help fund it. Which leads to: What’s in it for taxpayers?

The economic benefits of stadiums notoriously tend to be exaggerated. And it’s not as if we don’t already have a domed stadium in Atlanta, so the benefits of a newer stadium are even less obvious.

One intriguing aspect of a new stadium, from a fiscal perspective, is the possibility it would host more events. The tentative terms agreed to by the GWCA and the Falcons call for the state to own the building while the Falcons “operate” it.

In theory, this means the Falcons, as a private entity, can take more financial risks than a state agency should in recruiting performers and events. In theory, this means the new stadium would be used more days of the year than the Dome, bringing in more money.

But how many more? Leading to how much more money? How much money could we expect to come from out of town — rather than from locals who would simply spend less elsewhere in our region?

How much business could nearby hotels, restaurants and other establishments expect? And, in turn, how much might this boost city coffers to offset the tax revenue devoted to the new stadium?

Stadium skeptics won’t be satisfied without answers to these kinds of questions. Let’s hear them.

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– By Kyle Wingfield

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193 comments Add your comment

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 19th, 2012
10:02 am

There is absolutely no public need for a new stadium.

Aquagirl

November 19th, 2012
10:08 am

Kyle, if you think a state board packed with political appointees will give you any explanation whatsoever, please get your head examined. What are you going to do, un-elect them?

Gov. Deal wants them to massage the PR a little, and that’s what you’re gonna get.

Kyle Wingfield

November 19th, 2012
10:10 am

Aquagirl: That’s why I said “if” they decide to make their case. Maybe they won’t and will get what they want anyway, in which case the public ought to blame the Republican lawmakers who give it to them.

ATL Born and Raised

November 19th, 2012
10:17 am

An article of Kyle’s I can get behind! I don’t see the point of a new stadium whatsoever. If Arthur Blank wants one so bad he can damn well pay for it himself. Roger Goodell will give the city of Atlanta exactly one Super Bowl, it will bring no net gain to the city (just like last time), and then it will be back in New Orleans (with it’s ancient of days dome that seems to have no problem filling up) and Miami again – because hey, those cities are fun! (And walkable.) The city of Atlanta should be more concerned of the convention dollars it will lose if it keeps jacking up hotel-motel taxes to pay for frivolous things like this.

Ben

November 19th, 2012
10:17 am

This is one of those deals where everyone involved in the decision making wants a new stadium. Unfortunately average citizens don’t get a say in the decision making. This is sort of like when there are public sector unions, and they negotiate their pay with politicians who won’t be around in 5 years. No one has any incentive to protect the taxpayer, who is actually paying the bill, and NONE of the decision makers will have to face any kind of reckoning if they turn out to be completely wrong and waste millions (or billions) of our taxpayer dollars.

Mr. Snarky

November 19th, 2012
10:20 am

Kyle, you’re right on this one. If they want to build a new stadium just because they can, then forget about it. If the numbers add up and hold up to scrutiny, then we’ll consider it.

Also, alternate uses of the funds should be consider from an ROI perspective…such as developing the wasteland around Turner Field.

Aquagirl

November 19th, 2012
10:26 am

Maybe they won’t and will get what they want anyway, in which case the public ought to blame the Republican lawmakers who give it to them.

Yeah, not holding my breath on that one. It’s funny to see this political theater though. The Governor acts like the GWC Authority beamed in from Planet X and the legislature (who approved the hotel-motel tax) is running for the hills. They’ve tossed the hot potato to unelected figureheads. Good move.

The political appointees and Arthur Blank will be happy to take the heat for their new stadium. Some angry peons won’t disturb their skybox experience.

iggy

November 19th, 2012
10:29 am

The Falcons are a second rate team in a 3rd rate city and dont deserve a new stadium.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 19th, 2012
10:31 am

Why should we build something we don’t need, when we need so much? The Dome is an excellent facility. The purpose of the new stadium is plain and simple, more money for the Falcons. Every other group involved doesn’t benefit.

More luxury suites, less seats for the common folk, means Blank need not worry about attracting the casual fan as much. This leads to less fluctuations in attendance, when the team struggles. The extreme fan is going to wait in line for his seat license and his season tickets, so he is not going to casually toss those aside when the team hits the skids, as all teams do for periods of time. Less seats mean a demand for tickets, so Blank can raise his prices every year and if you don’t like it, then those season tickets can go to the next fan clamoring for tickets, on the waiting list.

Politicians selling out their constituents, once again, who is surprised?

Fulton Co Girl

November 19th, 2012
10:32 am

What everyone wants to get around is what I call the Tom Murphy rule when the Dome was built. It limits the revenue that goes back to the Falcons from Dome revenue – ie, the state gets more back than most cities with a NFL team. The Falcons hate it and that is why they are truly pushing for a new stadium – to change the revenue terms with the state.

Glenn

November 19th, 2012
10:43 am

Its silly that our NFL team plays in a dome . Totally dumb with as pleasant as our autumn weather is . That being said we don’t need a state of the art retractable roof stadium . We just need a really good outdoor stadium or a really big chainsaw to use on the dome . It is really incredible that the life span of a stadium costing 100’s of millions has the shelf life of a decade .

JDW

November 19th, 2012
10:44 am

Once upon a time, I had season tickets to the Falcons. Never missed a game rain or shine. Then they build the dome and I have NEVER been back. A domed stadium to play football in Atlanta. It was asinine then and is asinine today.

Personally I would rather see a nice new outdoor stadium a bit further north…think Sanford Stadium on the old GM plant site but apparently such a thing is not in the cards again. Looks like our politically appointed, unaccountable GWC committee will have a nice new retractable top stadium for us…sounds just like the process we just put in place to help run our education system.

I wonder if all those new Charter Schools get new stadiums as well?

Don't Tread

November 19th, 2012
10:47 am

“there’s got to be a little further explanation to the public, and probably to the members of the General Assembly,” as to why tax dollars should be used to replace the Georgia Dome before its 25th birthday.

Here’s my explanation: If Arthur wants a new stadium, then Arthur can pay for it. Arthur will be collecting the ticket money to recover his cost.

There are too many other (read: necessary) projects that should be funded by taxes and are not being completed due to lack of money to pay for them. Replacing a 25 year old stadium in good condition is not a necessity, especially when taxpayer money is being spent.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 19th, 2012
10:49 am

If they can play outdoors in Foxborough, New York and Green Bay, there should be no problem playing outdoors in Atlanta.

Andrew

November 19th, 2012
10:50 am

I would only support a new stadium under this deal:
Hotel Motel Tax pays for the $300 plus million upfront, Blank pays the $700 million. Instead of 100% of revenue going to the falcons, 100% of revenue goes to repay the $300 million to the taxpayers + borrowing costs. After the $300+ million is re-payed, Blank can have 100% of the revenue. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Arthur. We should NOT pay 30ish % of the cost and give up all the revenue.

meg

November 19th, 2012
10:53 am

Hey, Art Blank and the NFL-Build your own d(*& stadium with your filthy rich pockets. When the NFL advertises for a week they will broadcast the NE vs IND game and then cuts off coverage the first quarter of the game to watch OT of 2 teams that have losing records, that’s when I say the arrogance of this league is out of control. That, and the fact that the prices charged for everything from a ticket to a soda will go up with a new stadium. Just look at Jerry Jones as your model. Crappy team and ugly stadium that has a TV screen overhead that actually interferes with viewing the game from most seats. Just say NO, NO, NO. Take the taxes collected from tourists to Atlanta and clean up the corrupt PD and get the homeless off the streets. Atlanta is a filthy city, in more ways than one.

Bob Loblaw

November 19th, 2012
11:01 am

For those of you that think the weather is just great for football here, remember September. Its hot. Really hot. Preseason in August? Hot.

That’s the reason for the roof. It’s not to prevent us from enjoying awesome weather like yesterday’s, but to prevent heat stroke in September.

I went to a game at Tennessee one year and it was 102 in the second week of the season. The temperature gauge on the field was pegged at 120.

As for the revenue angle, the State makes money and has quite the marketing tool in the GA Dome. The deal was made in 2010 to finance part of the stadium by taxing visitors. Ever seen the downtown hotels on game weekends? Packed.

All this populist Blank-bashing is cute, TEA party people, but cheesy.

And this team is leading the NFL right now. Second rate? C’mon.

bluecoat

November 19th, 2012
11:01 am

I agree with Andrew on the stadium.-Off subject we should print enough money to buy all the gold,then create a gold backed currency.China not exporting any gold,and they are largest producer.wonder why?Could it be they intend to do same?

East Cobb RINO, Inc. (LLC)

November 19th, 2012
11:02 am

We can afford a new stadium and fancy lights and signs for bridges, but not expansion of medicaid? Mr Deal you got some ’splainin to do.

JDW

November 19th, 2012
11:05 am

@Bob…”For those of you that think the weather is just great for football here, remember September. Its hot. Really hot. Preseason in August? Hot.”

Bob…I go to Sanford Stadium in just those “horrific” conditions regularly…no worries it works great. BTW its hot in Miami, Charlotte, Jacksonville, Nashville and Tampa…outside venues all.

Hillbilly D

November 19th, 2012
11:05 am

An NFL team is a license to print money. With the TV contract, etc., a complete fool could still turn a profit with an NFL team, if they never sold a ticket. In my opinion, no public money should ever be spent on a sports stadium for a privately owned team. That’s mixing public and private, which I’m against.

Talking about this is a waste of time, though, because this is a done deal. The legislature already put this through in 2010, so anything they do now is just about PR, to make it look better.

I don’t care whether Arthur has a new stadium or not, or where he builds it, but he is more than able to pay for it himself. It’s not just people from the lower income brackets who suffer from the entitlement mentality and have their hand in the public pocket (as some folks like to assert). The best way in the world to make money is to get somebody else to pay your bills and ol’ Arthur knows that all to well. Like a lot of folks, Arthur is all about Arthur.

So this is going to happen, even though most of the public is probably against it. It sucks but that’s the way it is. People who have buddies in high places always manage to get what they want.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
11:05 am

That’s right, KYLE. Please protect us taxpayers if you can..And please, let no one say POOR FALCONS.

Take Kray Biermann.. He has a three year contract for $9,150,000.oo plus the sign on bonus he got for $3,100,000.And he’s just one of ‘em. (I think he still is.)

If there’s money to be spent, Atlanta has enough needed repairs to bankrupt the billionaires. Just filling the pot holes would break the budget.

Another chrome dome? Boooo! Will Atlanta ever learn that spending money you aint got and aint much coming is BAD?

stands for decibels

November 19th, 2012
11:05 am

Pretty good takedown of the stadium argument-for, here.

(the fieldofschemes website is always good to have handy if you’ve forgotten exactly why you hated these larcenous ess-oh-bees in the first place.)

Gerald

November 19th, 2012
11:07 am

What Kyle Wingfield and the other anti-Atlanta folks consistently leave out is that the $300 million for the proposed stadium can’t be used for other purposes. It can’t be used to fund highways, schools, the Savannah port, to fund tax cuts, any of that stuff that you would rather it go to. The hotel/motel tax can only be spent on things related to the GWCC. If you want to use it for any other purpose, you would have to change state law and very possibly defend such a change in a court of law, if the people who actually live in the city where the taxes are collected don’t support the change and don’t benefit from where the money is being redirected to.

So, the people who oppose spending the $300 million on this … what else do you propose spending it on? Again, before you answer, go research the GWCC hotel/motel tax and find out what the law actually allows the money to be spent on first.

Beverly Fraud

November 19th, 2012
11:08 am

Perhaps an 80,000 seat charter school? Could save on teacher costs by using the video screen to provide “an interactive experience” as opposed to merely working with the teacher.

So a teacher would have to take 80,000 papers home a night…shouldn’t teachers stop being so lazy anyway?

Bob Loblaw

November 19th, 2012
11:08 am

@JDW:

I don’t go to games in the heat for that very reason. To each their own, I guess, but the roof is good for competition and fan comfort.

Miami and Tampa are regulars for blackouts, by the way. Wonder why? Both teams are competitive. Just don’t sell.

Andy

November 19th, 2012
11:08 am

If this is such a great idea, Arthur Blank should bankroll it and rent it out himself.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
11:08 am

That’s right, HILLBILLY

No mixing of private and public money. NONE!

Gerald

November 19th, 2012
11:09 am

The people who are pretending that the money for the stadium is coming from the general fund, or can be spent on transportation, schools or anything like that are nothing but demagogues. This means you, Kyle. If anything, the main failure of Blank, Reed, the GWCC authority etc. is failing to let people know that the hotel/motel tax can’t be spent on anything else. The same sort of laws that restrict how MARTA revenue can be spent also restricts how GWCC revenue can be spent. A better question would be asking questions of who put those laws that restrict what Atlanta can do with its won tax revenue in to begin with. But nope. Better to bash Atlanta and its leadership than do that.

Kyle Wingfield

November 19th, 2012
11:09 am

Gerald @ 11:07: Really? You would have to change state law?

Hmmm…maybe that’s why I wrote this in the OP: “(Yes, using the hotel/motel revenues for other purposes would require a change in state law. So would raising the GWCA’s bonding capacity.)”

massachusetts refugee

November 19th, 2012
11:11 am

and let’s not forget buffalo, pittsburgh, philadelphia, cincinnatti, cleveland, and chicago. all outdoors. if arthur blankity blank blank wants a new stadium, let him pay for it.

Gerald

November 19th, 2012
11:12 am

Dusty:

Public and private money mixes all the time. If you want to end the mixing of public and private money, you would cripple both our private economy and our government. The people who repeat such slogans are generally far removed from the facts and reality.

They BOTH suck

November 19th, 2012
11:13 am

Regardless of the arguments on either side, I would bet that the a new stadium is eventually approved.

Deal is probably just playing political games, but in the end, he and enough of the “right” people will capitulate and the deal will move forward.

Some are probably really against a new stadium while others are just playing the game to say they did their due diligence before they made their decision.

Dirty Dawg

November 19th, 2012
11:13 am

OK, let me ask these again…first, just how much more money do the Falcons need? With the salary cap and current revenue from tickets and TV contracts, they’ve got all the money they need to operate – and then some…Arthur Blank already has all the money he, his kids, his Grandkids and his kids Grandkids would ever be able to spend…the planned increase in the room tax (and the one we already have is just the city, why not the entire metro area) would undoubtedly mean Atlanta’s room tax would be less competitive than many of the cities with which we compete for convention business. How much would that cost us? Finally, that same room tax, currently, doesn’t provide enough for Atlanta to adequately compete with those same cities in the area of promotions and advertising. I mean think about it – you see more and better commercials for Alabama, Mississippi and New Orleans during the Peach Bowl (I don’t believe in sponsor titles on Bowls unless they started that way) than Atlanta itself. If the room tax is gonna go up at all it should be dedicated to that end. No, we don’t need no more stadiums, or Super Bowls either cause all they do is provide another forum for New York sportswriters to complain about how many Peachtree Streets there are in town and that it’s too cold to play golf.

They BOTH suck

November 19th, 2012
11:15 am

HillBilly D @ 11:05

Agreed

carlosgvv

November 19th, 2012
11:18 am

If Atlanta truly was a world class city, it’s leaders would at least take care of all the homeless BEFORE considering a new football statium.

Needless to say, that will never happen.

Gerald

November 19th, 2012
11:20 am

Kyle Wingfield:

If the law is changed to grab Atlanta’s tax revenue in a manner that Atlanta’s duly elected representatives (Kasim Reed et al) oppose, isn’t that taxation without representation? And why stop there? Why not change laws to allow the state to grab taxes that belong to Cobb, Gwinnett, Forsyth, Hall etc. also? Bottom line is that more justification is needed to change this law other than the city of Atlanta choosing to spend it on something that you personally don’t approve of. And I notice that the vast majority of the people who vehemently oppose this measure do not live in the city and likely never set foot in it. They are so opposed to this but yet let Georgia Power do whatever they want without raising a peep. With this and your misrepresenting the $3.3 million raised by a private funds on Atlanta bridges, you are really on a roll. Must be angling for a PR job in the Romney administration (oops!!!)

Will

November 19th, 2012
11:23 am

Hell must have just frozen over! For the first (and very probably the last) time, I agree with Kyle. But even if you put the issues of finances and social priorities aside, has not NFL football become more or less a studio sport in the past decade or so??? Seems so to me. The NFL has put more emphasis on BROADCASTING every nuance and aspect of the game over the cable and “free” TV networks so that the NFL can maximize its profits. A new stadium won’t help that. Even with a new stadium, I predict that we won’t see ticket prices come down one iota. Ticket prices are already so high that you need to be Mitt Romney or some other plutocrat in order to be able to afford to go to the stadium whether its new, old, or otherwise. If Falcons threaten to leave town becasue of lack of new facility…let ‘em leave.

Gerald

November 19th, 2012
11:24 am

carlosgvv:

Atlanta is welcome to try to take care of the homeless, but they can’t do it with the hotel/motel tax. Just like they can’t use it to cut property taxes or to build highways outside I-285 or to deepen the Savannah port (or any of Kyle Wingfield’s other “hey, let’s put the screws to a Democratic city!” right wing fantasies). And here is the rub: GWCC hotel/motel tax is raised precisely so that GWCC can fund projects like this so that they can remain competitive with other cities in bidding for large events. If GWCC falls behind, all the conventions go elsewhere – to Dallas, Tampa, Charlotte etc. – and there is no hotel/motel tax to fight over to begin with. Then again, maybe Kyle and his complaining suburban cohorts want that to happen anyway. Although I have no idea why. It isn’t as if Cobb or Gwinnett is going to start hosting conventions or pro sports teams if the GWCC collapses.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
11:28 am

Gerald

Please tell us more. I’m not expert on tax configuration. Perhaps you mean that private money builds big things such as museums, libraries, hotels and then they depend on tax money to provide them utilites, [;protection, etc. . So hotel, etc. taxes are designed to be returned only to commercial entertainment to keep the hotels filled with happy guests.. Or something!

“What a web we weave when first we practice to deceive!” Maybe it isn’t deception to allocate tax money to help private business but it is not the picture presented to taxpayers. We have a constitution which aims for the protection of citizens’ rights, not their private business.

Oh well, Maybe you can straighten this out. It sounds crooked at the moment.

Hillbilly D

November 19th, 2012
11:31 am

If Falcons threaten to leave town becasue of lack of new facility…let ‘em leave.

Los Angeles seems to have survived after losing two NFL teams.

Stevereeno

November 19th, 2012
11:33 am

Take the top off it. Now you have the open air stadium a lot cheaper than building a whole new stadium.

soxman

November 19th, 2012
11:41 am

The rich will get richer. That will never change. And there ain’t NUTHIN we can do about it.

carlosgvv

November 19th, 2012
11:42 am

Gerald – 11:24 “but they can’t do it”

And yet, you may be sure they can, and will, find a way to build this new stadium.

Money talks. As for the homeless, let them eat cake.

Jefferson

November 19th, 2012
11:42 am

Is Deal out of debt yet, things like this will make him rich.

Hillbilly D

November 19th, 2012
11:46 am

Is Deal out of debt yet

After he leaves office, Nathan will have his Congressional pension and his state pension, so no need to worry about him, he’ll be fine.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 19th, 2012
11:47 am

“Miami and Tampa are regulars for blackouts, by the way. Wonder why? Both teams are competitive. Just don’t sell.”

Miami and Tampa competitive, Bob Loblaw?

In what league? Pop Warner?

yuzeyurbrane

November 19th, 2012
11:52 am

Kyle, I largely agree with you on this one. My main disagreement is I feel that the evidence is already conclusive that this would be a boondoggle, steering scarce tax revenues into the the hands of a very few in a time of more pressing priorities. The only thing that has been missing is any hint (except for the recent sop from Deal) that the power players are paying any attention to that fact, with the implication being that is their favorite part of the deal and explains their effort to get this by under the radar. So I applaud your call to bring this up on the radar screen since I think the electorate will be overwhelming in its disgust. Blank stands to double the value of his investment if the new stadium is built through the fmv of the franchise and just the increased gouging of his ticket holders. I actually have nothing against either so long as he does it on his own dime and not as tax subsidized socialism for the wealthy.

Kyle Wingfield

November 19th, 2012
11:52 am

Gerald @ 11:20: Who said anything about taking the tax revenue outside Atlanta? The city has plenty of other needs for that money. When I’ve mentioned other possible uses for the money in the past, I’ve begun with uses inside the city and then referred to projects outside the city only for comparison’s sake: “Just to get a full grasp of what $400 million will buy,” as I put it once ($400 million was the figure being used at the time I wrote that article).

As for misrepresenting the $3.3 million, I beg to differ. I stopped short of the reference to the Atlanta Downtown Improvement District in the text I quoted from the news article, but I included the $1.7 million figure for DOT’s share and wrote that the ADID would contribute some of the $5 million. In any case, I think it’s fair game to ask why any entity, governmental or quasi-governmental or private, in Atlanta would prefer to spend money for signage on streets rather than improving streets. When the need for congestion relief is as dire as many people believe, I think all available money has to be on the table.

More to the point: When taxpayers see $5 million, from any source but including public money, being spent for this kind of purpose, they naturally bridle when asked to tax themselves more to pay for congestion relief. Like it or not, fair or not, we will not see public approval for raising transportation taxes as long as we see money being spent on transportation-related projects like this one.

Kyle Wingfield

November 19th, 2012
11:53 am

Btw, Gerald: I live in the city of Atlanta, so you’re off-base in thinking I have some sort of vendetta against it. That would be pretty self-defeating on my part.

Gerald

November 19th, 2012
11:54 am

Hillbilly D:

Los Angeles gets support from California that Atlanta will never get from Georgia. That is a big difference.

Kyle Wingfield

November 19th, 2012
11:55 am

yuze @ 11:52: Oh, I agree the evidence we have is conclusive on that point. That’s why I’m saying we need to hear evidence to the contrary, along the lines I’ve spelled out, if we as citizens are to change our minds.

Bob Loblaw

November 19th, 2012
11:57 am

@Tiberius:

Tampa won yesterday on the road and is 6-4. Miami is 4-6 and has gotten better every week. They are competitive. Jacksonville is not, yet they don’t have any blackouts. They openly talk about the heat being a competitive advantage in September.

CC

November 19th, 2012
11:58 am

Hillbilly D@11:05 am:

You’re right again . . . as you so often are!

JamVet

November 19th, 2012
12:01 pm

Excellent article, Kyle.

No more socialism for the rich and capitalism for the rest of us…

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
12:02 pm

carlosgvv 11:42

I think you don’t even live in Atlanta or anywhere near it. If you did, you would know about the numerous agencies set up by non-profits and others to help the homeless. Everything from housing, meals, re-education, detoxification, employment,job training, clothing, staples available to one and all.

If the homeless are not getting help in Atlanta, they either don’t want it or haven’t tried to find what is available. If you want to contribute, I will be glad to send you a list. All of them can use donations of all kinds. I”m sure you would like to help here since you continue to present such a dismal if uninformed opinion.

Gerald

November 19th, 2012
12:03 pm

@Kyle:

Pardon me, but your list of items that the stadium money could be used for included the Savannah port deepening and an outer perimeter or new north-south expressway, neither of which would do squat for Atlanta itself directly in terms of its ability to attract jobs and revenue. (And it also included lowering property taxes by one mill, which wouldn’t do squat for the city, but would make the right wing foundation folks happy.)

“When taxpayers see $5 million, from any source but including public money, being spent for this kind of purpose, they naturally bridle when asked to tax themselves more to pay for congestion relief. ”

Actually, the amount of money used to build the Ashford-Dunwoody DDI (which has been pretty much a failure by the way) would have never been associated by T-SPLOST – or publicly known anyway – had it not been for your baiting. Incidentally, of all the unwise money spent by GDOT, why point out a project in Atlanta that is being 2/3rds paid for by private funds to begin with?

Sorry, but it still looks to me like Republicans deciding that tax money raised in a Democratic city can’t be used to better that city’s prospects. How’s about go telling the commissioners in Gwinnett County how they should use their tax money instead?

Just Saying..

November 19th, 2012
12:04 pm

As my aunt says whenever a problematic issue arises, “No time to fix it, vote Republican!!”

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
12:05 pm

Gerald,

Did you mean to say that GEORGIA gets little help from ATLANTA?

You do know that opinion of yours goes both ways.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 19th, 2012
12:08 pm

Saying Tampa and Miami are competitive is like saying Obama is thrifty.

getalife

November 19th, 2012
12:18 pm

We just remodeled the Superdome but a new stadium is a job creator.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
12:20 pm

Tiberius,12:08

You made me laugh.. That’s funny.

Anyway, I don’t even like football. They could change the dome into a city reservoir as far as I am concerned. Make it into something useful.

Meli

November 19th, 2012
12:23 pm

What I note is that New Orleans built the Superdome in the early 1970s. After Hurricane Katrina hit, New Orleans would’ve had carte blanche to build a brand new stadium–just tear the whole thing down and build a brand new one. They didn’t. And yet in that time the Saints have won a Super Bowl and until this year were seen as one of the NFL’s perennial contenders. All in a stadium that is pretty much 40 years old. Now I love the Falcons and Arthur Blank seems to be a decent man, but the Falcons hardly need a new stadium when the Saints have a stadium that is twice as old as the Georgia Dome and they appear to be making lots of money with it.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
12:24 pm

getalife

“A new stadium is a job creator.” Yeah, I bet. Just like the “stimulus” was a job creator.

I think we don’t need anymore of these “job creators”. We can’t afford them.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 19th, 2012
12:25 pm

One “need” is clear:

bigger MONSTER truck shows! Let’s get our priorities straight….

Gerald

November 19th, 2012
12:32 pm

Dusty
November 19th, 2012
12:05 pm

“Gerald,

Did you mean to say that GEORGIA gets little help from ATLANTA? You do know that opinion of yours goes both ways.”

Except that my opinion is, you know, right. Take the universities and Hartsfield alone away and Georgia is worse off than Alabama, South Carolina and Mississippi. And that doesn’t even factor in A) the tax revenue that gets redistributed from Atlanta to the rest of the state and B) the only reason why the suburbs exist is because of their proximity to Atlanta, which was a major city with large employers and vital institutions back when the suburbs still had more black bears than people.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 19th, 2012
12:33 pm

Here’s a list of 6 restaurants you need to avoid if you want to avoid having your food handled by sick people:
Papa John’s Pizza
Olive Garden / Red Lobster
Hurricane Grill and Wings, and also some Denny’s and Dairy Queen Franchises
Applebee’s

There are a lot of chain restaurants in this country. If I’m going to eat in one I’d like for the employees to have access to health care. I’d prefer not to have germ-laden, typhoid Mary’s handling my food, thank you very much. And it is common sense to ask, if they are cutting corners on this, what other health regulations are they skirting? I think I’ll be eating elsewhere.

Salon.com

carlosgvv

November 19th, 2012
12:34 pm

Dusty – 12:02 “haven’t tried to find what is available”

I try to stay away from downtown as much as possible. Still, from time to time I have to go to Atlanta. There, I’m constantaly fending off agressive pandhandlers and triping over people sleeping on the street. Once, while in the company of some ladies from work, we were yelled at and threatened by a crazed homeless man. Needless to say, there wasn’t a cop in sight.

Son, I think my knowledge of Atlanta far surpasses yours.

Jefferson

November 19th, 2012
12:35 pm

Plenty of money laying on the table.

yuzeyurbrane

November 19th, 2012
12:37 pm

Gerald, I don’t see why you are trying to frame this as an Atlanta v. the rest of the state issue. Atlantans care just as much as other Georgians about the use of their tax dollars on priorities like education rather than toys and cash for those who don’t need it.

Gerald

November 19th, 2012
12:43 pm

Meli:

And despite the awesomeness that is the Super Dome, New Orleans needs legalized gambling (plus the police batting an eye at everything else), the French quarter, Mardi Gras, Lake Pontchartrain etc. to come anywhere close to Atlanta in attracting major events. Gee, wonder why that is?

And no one has still answered the question: if GWCC taxes shouldn’t be spent on facilities to make sure that the GWCC is a viable competitor regionally and nationally – to draw conventions and other large events that would otherwise go to New Orleans for example – then what should it be used on?

Look at who Atlanta is competing with for conventions and major sporting events mind you. Cities where gambling is legal like Las Vegas, Atlantic City and New Orleans. Cities in larger metropolitan areas like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and Dallas. Cities with beaches and other tourist amenities like Miami, Los Angeles, New Orleans. Cities with better transportation like, well pretty much everywhere.

Really the only thing that Atlanta can offer to compete with places like that is having the best, most modern facilities. If Atlanta doesn’t build the Georgia Dome, the SECCG and all those Final 4s go elsewhere. And if Atlanta doesn’t keep up in the facilities arms race, future major events will also go elsewhere. And it has already started happening. Atlanta has been passed over as a BCS city and the site of the Champions Bowl (the SEC/Big 12 playoff play-in) and is a longshot to even be one of the rotating sites for the NCAA football playoff for the at-large team. And for the folks who want to throw up their hands and say “So what” … it isn’t like Gwinnett, Cobb or Forsyth are attracting these events either. Or like they ever will. In 100 years.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 19th, 2012
12:47 pm

Just Saying: As my aunt says whenever a problematic issue arises, “No time to fix it, vote Republican!!”
———–

Your aunt is an idiot.

Gerald

November 19th, 2012
12:49 pm

yuzeyurbrane:

“Atlantans care just as much as other Georgians about the use of their tax dollars on priorities like education rather than toys and cash for those who don’t need it.”

The GWCC tax that will be used to find this stadium cannot be spent on education. It can only be spent on things related to keeping Atlanta a viable convention destination (which by the way generates tax revenue that is used to fund education). And I feel perfectly justified in mentioning “the rest of Georgia” when the vast majority of the negative comments on this issue (and on the Beltline and on MARTA and on APS and on pretty much everything else that has to do with the city) is made by people who do not live in Atlanta and do not pay taxes – hotel/motel or otherwise – here. Since they care enough about Atlanta to feel the need to oppose anything and everything that might actually benefit the city, reminding them how much the city contributes to the state while getting nothing in return is very appropriate.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 19th, 2012
12:52 pm

Finn, I thought that the great provider, Warren Buffet, owned DQ. I am sure a word with Barry will have all those DQ employees on an insurance roll, before you know it.

Glad you will not be at those restaurants, don’t like crowds myself. Fortunately most people pick restaurants on how good and economical the food is, rather than whether the employees get free birth control and annual physicals.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 19th, 2012
12:57 pm

As my wife says whenever a problematic issue arises, “No money to give to fix it, the government has all the money, let them deal with it.”

Aquagirl

November 19th, 2012
12:58 pm

If Atlanta doesn’t build the Georgia Dome, the SECCG and all those Final 4s go elsewhere.

Fine, I hope the door hits them in the @$$. Preferably the doorknob portion if you know what I mean.

Superbowls and big sporting events may thrill the jock-sniffers, they aren’t the only conventions. We have gospel conventions, woodworking conventions, geek conventions…all of these bring huge bucks in without a bunch of spoiled athletic supporters demanding subsidized tongue baths.

Spend the money on free transportation for convention-goers, more police, or repeal the law and let the hotels spend it themselves. But subsidizing Arthur Blank and millionaires? HELL NO.

Eff them. We can get far better returns for the money.

Heckle and JayKyle

November 19th, 2012
1:16 pm

Look, the Falcons deserved to be 1-9 not 9-1. They are the worst 9-1 team I’ve ever seen. They certainly don’t deserve no state of the art locker rooms. The Falcons. How many interceptions can you throw and still win? I think we just found out. Love the Facons. Give them their damn new crib, blood. So what if we don’t get to fix underground again. We want football. FOOTBALL!!!!!

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
1:34 pm

Carlos

I live in Atlanta. You don’t. A few trips downtown does not make you an expert.

All pan handlers are not homeless. They make a living that way. Many restrictions have been made on them. Every street cannot be patrolled.

Atlanta’s many benefits for the homeless attract more that hear about them.. Some people come here thinking jobs are available.. Hard to find.. Throw in the poor economy and the needs of the homeless grow rapidly. In that respect, I doubt that Atlanta is any different from big cities across the USA.

Just Saying..

November 19th, 2012
1:39 pm

Lil Barry @ 12:47-

I believe I’m going to let you start that conversation with her…

CC

November 19th, 2012
2:00 pm

Here is a list of the top 5 restaurants deserving of your patronage:

Papa John’s Pizza
Olive Garden / Red Lobster
Hurricane Grill and Wings, and also some Denny’s and Dairy Queen
Applebee’s

Bon appetit!

stands for decibels

November 19th, 2012
2:14 pm

Well, since you mentioned it, CC:

There are a lot of chain restaurants in this country. If I’m going to eat in one I’d like for the employees to have access to health care. I’d prefer not to have germ-laden, typhoid Marys handling my food, thank you very much. And it is common sense to ask, if they are cutting corners on this, what other health regulations are they skirting? I think I’ll be eating elsewhere.

CC

November 19th, 2012
2:16 pm

“I believe I’m going to let you start that conversation with her…”

Hark! An intelligent comment from Just Saying.. !

It is also probably an intelligent decision!

CC

November 19th, 2012
2:19 pm

stands for decibels@2:14 PM:

Progressive scare tactics fail to trouble me.

Gerald

November 19th, 2012
2:19 pm

Aquagirl:

“We have gospel conventions, woodworking conventions, geek conventions…all of these bring huge bucks in without a bunch of spoiled athletic supporters demanding subsidized tongue baths.”

So does Macon. So does Toledo. So does any medium-sized city in this country. Atlanta isn’t those. They’re a major city. And you’ll spend the money on something better? What pray tell? Folks don’t want to spend it on education (they merely claim to want to when the alternative is a stadium), folks don’t want to spend it on transportation, they don’t want to spend it on social services … what other use for the money is there? (Don’t say tax cuts. Even Wingfield acknowledged that this $300 million only amounts to about $20 million a year. He estimated that it would be a savings of $250 a year, and that is only for property owners. So no supply side boost to the region from that.)

The folks who keep insisting that this is a bad idea certainly don’t have any good ones.

CC

November 19th, 2012
2:22 pm

Andrew Malcolm of Investor’s Business Daily:

“Romney in 703 words graciously admitted his loss. He said the word
“America” five times, the word “pray” three times and the words “Thank
you” 21 times.

The Real Good Talker, who’s never seen anything he couldn’t throw a
speech at, took 2,163 words to claim victory in what is traditionally a
moment to call for unity and healing after a divisive campaign.

The victorious Chicagoan, who promised before the last election to end
Washington’s partisan bitterness, strangely uttered the word “fight” five
times and “thank you” but seven times. He spoke the word “unify” zero
times, “unity” zero times, “heal” zero times and “pray” zero times.

He did, however, manage to mention himself 27 times.

JamVet

November 19th, 2012
2:26 pm

(CNN) – Newt Gingrich had harsh words Sunday for GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney’s suggestion that he lost the election because President Barack Obama offered “gifts” to African-Americans, Hispanics, and young voters.

“I just think it’s nuts,” Gingrich said on ABC. “I mean, first of all, it’s insulting.”

“The job of a political leader in part is to understand the people. If we can’t offer a better future that is believable to more people, we’re not going to win,” said Gingrich, who launched blistering attacks on Romney last spring while seeking the presidential nomination himself.

Revelation of Romney’s comments drew criticism from others within his own party, such as Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal – who said a winning strategy does not involve “insulting (voters) and saying their votes were bought” – and Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who said, “Rhetoric like this keeps digging a hole for the Republican Party.”

Romney was quoted by several news outlets as having made the comments on a call with top donors Wednesday, and CNN confirmed he made similar arguments in a separate call earlier in the day.

Chris

November 19th, 2012
2:51 pm

I would love a nice outdoor stadium in Atlanta,in the fall it is rarely bad enough weather that you can’t be outside. Why should I care if people living in the city of Atlanta pay more in taxes or if hotel taxes are higher? I live in the suburbs and drive in- makes no difference to me.

stands for decibels

November 19th, 2012
2:59 pm

[Obama] did, however, manage to mention himself 27 times.

Whereas the ever-modest Mitt referred to himself just 20 times in a speech that was one-third the length.

You dont say

November 19th, 2012
3:08 pm

When the best you can post is an Op Ed about what the WINNER and loser said on election night, the sting still hurts…..

Oh well it was funny.

Thanks for the laughs

Dave

November 19th, 2012
3:13 pm

Question three: Why should we spend any public money unless there is equity attached to the “investment?” I’m not a fan of public risk and private profit. Mr. Blank and other NFL owners make plenty of money. If there’s more to be made by a new stadium, let them pay for it. The problem with these deals is that government has proven to be a patsy – why pull the money out of your own pocket when you can scare/entice your local government folks to risk it? Answer, you shouldn’t. As someone used to say about drugs “just say know.” The Birmingham Falcons has a ring to it, and it would make for a nice day trip.

CC

November 19th, 2012
3:29 pm

“The Birmingham Falcons has a ring to it”

Or even, the Willacoochee Falcons! I know those folks would laugh at Blank and his request for THEIR money!

Aquagirl

November 19th, 2012
3:32 pm

So does Macon. So does Toledo. So does any medium-sized city in this country. Atlanta isn’t those

Gerald, Macon and Toledo also have sports facilities befitting their size. Our gospel and geek conventions are a little bigger than what you’d find in Toledo. The International Woodworking Fair may not get your testosterone raging but pulling in 50,000 + people with serious business on their minds does bring in money. Plenty of those people are industry leaders, they might spend a few more bucks than Drunky McDrunkerson the football fan.

I’m sorry you don’t think anything but a sporting event would draw big numbers of people with money to spend. Maybe you need to put down the remote and do something with your weekends besides watch men’s fannies.

carlosgvv

November 19th, 2012
3:48 pm

Dusty – 1:34

It’s true I don’t live in Atlanta.

I’ts also true your 1:34 simply confirms what I said about Atlanta’s large number of agressive and, at times, dangerous panhandlers.

I’ve lost count of the number of people who have visited Atlanta for the first time and go on to say that NO WAY will they ever come there again. Unfortunately, the prevailing cultural and ethnic leadership in Atlanta either can’t or won’t make any meaningful attempt to solve this problem.

I did live in Atlanta many years ago. Today’s Atlanta, compared to the one I knew, tells me that the city is now ruined and has been for years.

Erwin's cat

November 19th, 2012
3:50 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJQVlVHsFF8

Aquagirl….ligthen up and enjoy the ride

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 19th, 2012
3:51 pm

Atlanta is full of panhandlers and, not coincidentally, Obozo voters.

Aquagirl

November 19th, 2012
3:56 pm

Well thank you Erwin. Just what I needed.

Can one of you religious people pray for your god to strike me blind and deaf so I never have to experience that again?

lex

November 19th, 2012
3:57 pm

So, if a new stadium is built, what becomes of the old stadium? Who pays the carrying costs? Won’t the new stadium cannibalize events and revenues from the old? If the Falcons will be holding us hostage in perpetuity for new stadia we might as well cut the cord now.

Job creating stimulus? If that is an efficient way to employ people in construction think of the number of jobs we could create by tearing down all the office buildings, housing stock and infrastructure in the state. Why, with the multiplier effect we’d all be rich!

Hillbilly D

November 19th, 2012
4:02 pm

Couldn’t we have at least had B J Thomas (or Blue Swede, even), instead of the Hasselhoff?

Kyle Wingfield

November 19th, 2012
4:08 pm

lex @ 3:57: The current plan is to demolish the Georgia Dome if a new stadium is built.

BW

November 19th, 2012
4:19 pm

Kyle…do you change more about how existing hotel/motel taxes are based used or the tax itself? Again the tax was already renewed in 2010 expressly for this type of use. Denying the raise in bonding capacity seems like sour grapes. I also thought the Republican party was about small government yet nearly all changes to institutions save the Atlanta airport that contribute the most to Georgia’s GDP needs to be approved by the state legislature…are Republicans for small government or not? I would argue that this state’s Republicans are for big government (outside of the metro Atlanta region for sure). I have yet to see a full funding plan in place but if the CITY OF ATLANTA taxpayers choose to tax themselves for this or other infrastructure the state should not interfere with that which seems to be what you are advocating with the bonding authority issue…maybe I completely mis-read what you are getting at…please feel free to correct me

BW

November 19th, 2012
4:23 pm

“change” should be “care”

Glenn Beck

November 19th, 2012
4:29 pm

“Atlanta is full of panhandlers and, not coincidentally, Obozo voters.”

Lying as usual or you can post a substantiated fact on how panhandlers vote?

Thought so

Lexi3

November 19th, 2012
4:34 pm

So, Kyle, the project follows the “Cash for clunkers” model of prudent public finance? Destroy perfectly good assets to create a place for replacement assets? Will the property “owners” of the old real estate be paying ad valorem taxes on that parcel?

Kyle Wingfield

November 19th, 2012
4:38 pm

BW: I’m really not sure what you’re asking me. The point I’m trying to make is that the city of Atlanta has better uses for the money than replacing a 20-year-old stadium.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 19th, 2012
4:41 pm

Uh, Glenn Beck?

I suggest you bone up on your reading comprehension skills.

The line you have posted your poutrage about doesn’t suggest how panhandlers vote, but rather how Atlanta votes.

Which votes majority Democrat, therefore, is full of Obama voters.

Kyle Wingfield

November 19th, 2012
4:41 pm

Lex (now Lexi3): I think you’re giving the proponents too much credit for thinking. Their reason for wanting to tear down the Dome and build a new stadium is for the Falcons to make more money. Period.

But you are right that is wrong to destroy assets and then describe the money spent to replace them as some kind of economic growth.

They BOTH suck

November 19th, 2012
4:45 pm

Kyle @ 4:38

I agree with you, but wouldn’t place a bet in Vegas against enough of the “right people” coming around to the side of a new stadium before it is all over with.

Come on man; hope you are not counting on Governor “Let’s make a Deal” to hold out too long as well as some of his cronies.

How much different is GA politics then when the Dems ran the show? Not much really if you are honest about the situation. At that time you had the City of Atlanta and the other Dems throughout the state. Now it is the City of Atlanta and the Repubs with a good portion of the Repubs being the same Democrats with a name change.

Game has not changed that much.

Glenn Beck

November 19th, 2012
4:48 pm

Tiberius

I don’t care what you post or what you think. You are a lonely nobody to me and most others.

The blogger I replied too can’t back verify what I stated nor can you, but you can continue to play semantics if that makes you feel better about yourself

They BOTH suck

November 19th, 2012
4:52 pm

Kyle

Call me cynical, but once the pie is allocated and agreed on by enough of the “right folks”, a “Deal” will be struck.

mike

November 19th, 2012
4:56 pm

Kyle, I think that, in addition to the retractable roof, they should have a retractable playing field. You know one of those deals where the playing field runs on trolley tracks outside so’s the grass can grow. I also think the new stadium should have palm trees in the parking which should be covered with heated plastic domes in our tough Atlanta winters. A botanical gardens would really be a big hit with football fans as would a wine-tasting auditorium. What the heck, the sky’s the limit, let’s have hot tubs and saunas the upper level as well. Maybe I’ve left something out. I’ll get back to you.

Keymon

November 19th, 2012
5:02 pm

“About $300 million of that cost would be paid by Atlanta hotel/motel tax revenues,…”

I agree with Kyle on this, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Georgia Dome and that $300 million could be put to much better use.

Furnishmerchant

November 19th, 2012
5:09 pm

If you actually think that the estimates of marginal economic benefits which are trotted out in support of this deal should be given any credence whatsoever in evaluating it from the taxpayers’ perspective, then I need to talk with you about another deal for a classic bridge across the East River. Speaking of deals, do we have a clue yet how the Gov and his posse will make out on the new stadium, or is that only to be learned later?

Kyle Wingfield

November 19th, 2012
5:21 pm

Furnish @ 5:09: We’ll have to see them before we know whether to give them any credence. But one thing I know is that Mr. Blank and the NFL wouldn’t be putting up $700M of their own money if they didn’t believe they’d be getting a return. Let’s see those numbers and figure out what they mean for taxpayers.

They BOTH suck

November 19th, 2012
5:25 pm

Kyle

It is Crony Capitalism. It knows no party. Anyone thinks it is a one way street, isn’t even worth debating.

Bet you a steak dinner at Hal’s that this “Deal” goes down.

mike

November 19th, 2012
5:26 pm

But, Kyle, with a new dome we could be having monster truck challenges and tractor pulls every Friday and Saturday nights! Think of the millions of rednecks we could be bringing to Atlanta every year I’m in!!

Hillbilly D

November 19th, 2012
5:31 pm

It is Crony Capitalism. It knows no party. Anyone thinks it is a one way street, isn’t even worth debating.

True enough. I never have understood the “it’s ok for my guy but not for your guy” mentality. If something is wrong for everybody else, then it’s wrong for me to do it…..and vice versa. I believe all folks are equal and we all should be held to the same standard. No mulligans.

Tiledawg

November 19th, 2012
5:34 pm

I hate the dome! one reason to build it is more people like me would come to an open air stadium rather than a drab, stale air dome! gimme some fresh air!

wallbanger

November 19th, 2012
5:37 pm

I have lived in Atlanta for 21 years and have gone to exactly one Falcons game. They are a bunch of thugs in a second rate city that doesn’t even get behind them, so they are looking for more corporate dollars. I wouldn’t miss them if they left. As far as Atlanta goes, my organization had a convention here about 5 years ago and 2 people were mugged on the street–first time in its 55 year history. They sure won’t be coming back.

md

November 19th, 2012
5:40 pm

In summoning my inner democrat, I vote 100% in favor of a new stadium……I don’t live there any longer and won’t pay the tax, so I vote in favor………..

They BOTH suck

November 19th, 2012
5:42 pm

HillBilly D

The “Deal” will go down. Mark my words. And the majority of the same Democrats running Atlanta will be reelected along with the majority of the Republicans who are being “apprehensive” now, but will help push through this “Deal”.

Wish it were not so, but just being a realist.

The state, city and “independent” studies & analysis done by consulting groups will “show” the economic impact over an above any tax implications and worries the citizens may have about this expenditure.

Writing is on the wall and look who is running the state…….. “Let’s make a Deal”. He is known for it.

Heck if Perdue or MIller were living on Paces Ferry this would already be a done deal. It would be picture time with shovels and hard hats on for the city and state hierarchy.

mike

November 19th, 2012
5:46 pm

Tiledawg: “I hate the dome! one reason to build it is more people like me would come to an open air stadium rather than a drab, stale air dome! gimme some fresh air!”

Umm hmmmmmmh! It’s 36 degrees, it’s raining, it’s miserable. Still want that fresh air?

Oh wait It’s 36 degrees, it’s a beautiful sunny day! Still want that fresh air?

Hillbilly D

November 19th, 2012
5:47 pm

TBS @ 5:42

I agree it’s a done deal; they’re just trying to put the hog in a fancy dress.

They BOTH suck

November 19th, 2012
5:52 pm

Hillbilly

Think I played some Isley’s one time and you mentioned you liked them. If not, my bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=714-Dsoj1VU&feature=related

They BOTH suck

November 19th, 2012
5:58 pm

HillBilly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DNztjQJqTI

Womack with Ronald Isley

Ron Wood and Keith Richards were two of the “studio musicians” when Womack recorded this song and album.

CC

November 19th, 2012
6:34 pm

I know that this echoes what has already been said, but a new stadium is in Atlanta’s future. All that is left to the stroking of a few more folks, the presentation of the unified front, the decoration of the plan and the fleecing of the taxpayers: Voila! A brand new stadium for Blank courtesy of the taxpayer!

Schmucks!

yuzeyurbrane

November 19th, 2012
7:01 pm

Gerald–sorry I am so late in responding further but some of us have to earn a living. I was born, raised and currently live in Atlanta, just so you will know that I am not speaking as 1 of the outsiders you seem to look down upon. I will concede that you seem to be passionate in your advocacy for a new stadium, but I suggest that you do some research before spouting inaccurate facts. True the hotel tax is dedicated to use on things like stadiums. But just a legislative act. It is not carved into Mt. Rushmore or Stone Mountain nor is it part of state Constitution. As Kyle points out, the legislature can just as easily allow those funds to be used on education or just rescind it and lower hotel rates in Atlanta. You also seem to be fearful that Atlanta’s convention business would be destroyed by a failure to build a new stadium. Where is the market research data to back up this assertion? Look, because there is none. The credible market research that exists leads to the opposite conclusion. How many conventions even use the Ga. Dome now? How many would even care whether we have a new stadium? We have excellent facilities for most any sized convention in the country, loosing out on only a few mega-conventions, primarily because we don’t have as many hotel rooms or adult diversions as Vegas. I honestly don’t know why you are so passionate about this unless your name is Blank or you are just a blind to all reason pro-football fan. By the way, remember the Thrashers? Did you get this bent out of shape for them?

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
7:30 pm

NEWS ALERT

NO TWILIGHT FOR TWINKIES!!!!!

CC

November 19th, 2012
7:35 pm

Does this mean (gasp!) Twinkies may survive?

Chip

November 19th, 2012
7:39 pm

The existing Dome is just fine. If Blank and the spoiled whiny ball-players want even more money, then they can pay for it themselves. They WILL make their money back… the region is full of pathetic brain-dead drunks who will blow their income on game days so they can worship their idols in person. Leave the taxpayers out of it… get the dough from the idiot fans who live vicariously through the players because the idiot fans have no lives of their own… or common sense.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
7:40 pm

As I was saying……

No twilight for Twinkies

The bankruptcy court judge said there was not enough mediation.. So now there will be mediation in moderation to prevent medication.

This may bring about a union suit in mid winter.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 19th, 2012
7:40 pm

If the Twinkie survives, look for Obozo to jump in just in time to take credit.

Of course, lardass Moochelle might frown on someone enjoying a snack cake once in a while.

Ho Ho

November 19th, 2012
7:43 pm

CC

Twinkies will survive and the union will get a better deal than they turned away last week.

The owners bluff has been called. They attempted to make it appear they would just close down, but cooler heads will prevail.

Long live the TWINKIE

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 19th, 2012
7:44 pm

The union will make concessions, just as the owners demanded. Checkmate.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
7:52 pm

Confessions and concessions may bring about recessions.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 19th, 2012
7:52 pm

Gerald,

yuzey is right. When the Dome is paid off and the Falcons have moved to Andalusia, do you think the legislature would repeal that hotel/motel tax. Heck no, they would then use it to fund something else, just like they could choose to fund something other than a new Palace for Arthur, if they wished. You seem to feel that if they don’t use the hotel tax on the new stadium, it will just go to waste as it is dedicated to paying off a stadium. Taxes never go away; just grow.

Ho Ho

November 19th, 2012
7:53 pm

They will make concessions, but it wont be the deal that they turned down. It will be better.

Period, plan and simple

Spin all you like.

Owners balked

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
7:54 pm

It is tough to bluff when you’ve had enough.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
7:57 pm

The owners balked. The unions talked. The workers walked.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
8:04 pm

Right, Rafe 7:52

To paraphrase General MacArthur:

“Old taxes never die. They just multiply in every way.”

Ho Ho

November 19th, 2012
8:11 pm

CC and barry

Look on the bright side. Your mommies will still be packing Hostess products in your lunch along with your peanut butter and jelly samiches, fruit roll ups and juicy juice.

:-)

Greg Camp

November 19th, 2012
8:18 pm

The Georgia Dome does not need to be replaced and the city/state have other needs to be addressed. Sorry Arthur , Kasim, Nathan, and Rodger. Nice try.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
8:20 pm

Are there any genius mathematicians here tonight?.

If I build a one billion dolllar stadium with fifty thousand seats, what will be the ticket price plus one hotdog to recover the billion in ten years?

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
8:22 pm

OH and just one football game a day.

CC

November 19th, 2012
8:24 pm

Dusty:

Quite a bit more than I’d pay!

Gary

November 19th, 2012
8:25 pm

Without a new stadium, the Atlanta Falcons will become the L.A. Falcons. That is Atlanta sports in a nutshell, the teams are here just long enough to get good and then we run them off. Way to go!!

CC

November 19th, 2012
8:31 pm

Gary:

So . . . the taxpayers should give Blank what he wants so the team will stay?

@@

November 19th, 2012
8:32 pm

Sports stuff?

Alls I know is if you put a dome and a bowl together, you get a ball.

CC

November 19th, 2012
8:33 pm

The owners winked, the union blinked and the Twinkies twinked . . .

CC

November 19th, 2012
8:36 pm

@@:

In my younger days, when you put a dome and a bowl together, it always gave me a headache the next day!

Glenn Beck

November 19th, 2012
8:37 pm

The city and the state are going to give Blank what he wants on your behalf.

And the mayor and governor will both get reelected.

Glenn Beck

November 19th, 2012
8:39 pm

CC

I live in Atlanta, but didn’t vote for Reed. Nor did I vote for Deal.

Did you vote for either and will you vote for them again if (when) the “Deal” is made for the new stadium?

Glenn Beck

November 19th, 2012
8:44 pm

cc probably voted for Deal and will gleefully do so again……. regardless of the “Deal” that will come down on the stadium

CC

November 19th, 2012
9:06 pm

I lived in the City of Atlanta for only about eight years, and lived in the metro area for another eighteen years. I didn’t vote for Reed since I wasn’t living there when he ran for election. I did not vote for Barnes because my memory of his previous term was still too good. I don’t know who I’ll be voting for in the next gubernatorial election since no candidates have yet announced.

I do not now live near Atlanta and will never live in the metro area again.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
9:07 pm

I like Gov. Deal. He’s doing a good job.

Hires smart professional people from GEORGIA to fill jobs.

Will not put the state in debt so the Feds must set up their own expensive version of “free” healthcare.

Has asked for more information on a “new stadium” which is NOT a confirmation

Goes about business quietly and efficiently without rancor or pomp while .ignoring the mudslingers.

Has worked for a sensible budget that can be followed.

Resigned from US Congress but NO indictments have followed him.

As far as I can see, Gov. Deal is doing his very best for the state of Georgia. .

Glenn Beck

November 19th, 2012
9:14 pm

If a “Deal” is struck for a stadium, will you vote fro him again?

It is going to take his blessing as well as some other influential Republicans for this to go forward. The city of Atlanta hardly has the only say so

Gary

November 19th, 2012
9:17 pm

CC, it is the way it works. If they can make more money some where else, they will go. It is all about profits, just like any other business.

Gary

November 19th, 2012
9:22 pm

This is why the rest of the country makes fun of Atlanta as a sports team. Atlanta does not back their teams. And we may soon lose them all.

Gary

November 19th, 2012
9:23 pm

Sports town*

CC

November 19th, 2012
9:25 pm

“It is all about profits, just like any other business.”

Exactly my point, Gary. Why should the taxpayers support a business? It is Blank’s business, so let him pay for the stadium. He is then free to either take it with him if the Falcons move, or sell it at whatever prive he can get.

Hillbilly D

November 19th, 2012
9:25 pm

That is Atlanta sports in a nutshell, the teams are here just long enough to get good and then we run them off.

The Braves and Falcons have both been in Atlanta since 1966. That’s 47 years each and the Hawks have been in Atlanta almost as long. That’s not exactly running them off.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
9:27 pm

Glenn Beck,

Why are you so interested in other people votes? I thought voting was a private privilege done in protective booths for secrecy.

If someone wants to keep their choices to themselves, that is their privilege. Quit snoopin’, willya?

CC

November 19th, 2012
9:28 pm

Can’t type tonight! Should be “price” onstead of “prive”.

Eric

November 19th, 2012
9:29 pm

Why can’t Mr.’s Blank and Reed, and others, be content with what we have? There are clearly other civic (rather than private) priorities needing taxpayer support right now.

Glenn Beck

November 19th, 2012
9:30 pm

Dusty

I will ask the questions I want to ask, capiche?

Whether you or anyone else answers them is another issue.

Thanks for the comments.

Glenn Beck

November 19th, 2012
9:33 pm

Dusty

When it comes to politics, quit being so naive, “willya”?

If you think Deal will not strike a deal when it is all said an done, no wonder you post the senseless blather that you do.

:-)

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
9:35 pm

You are welcome, Glenn Beck.

I will also ask the questions I want to ask , capiche?

Why so touchy?

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
9:39 pm

Senseless blather because I ask you a question?

I believe this is Kyle’s blog. Not yours.

Hillbilly D

November 19th, 2012
9:53 pm

Why are you so interested in other people votes? I thought voting was a private privilege done in protective booths for secrecy.

It’s not anymore, at least not where I vote. When I first started voting, you went in a booth and it had a curtain on it. Now, you have the touch screens and the partion isn’t even up to shoulder level on me. All you have to do is just look, if you’re inclined to see how the person next to you is voting. That’s progress, I guess.

Glenn Beck

November 19th, 2012
9:56 pm

Dusty

Learn that lesson about Kyle’s blog. You seem to tell others on a frequent basis about going elsewhere.

Hypocrisy and irony is certainly your cup of tea

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 19th, 2012
10:08 pm

Glenn Beck, I suggest you stop trying to teach Dusty anything.

You don’t even comprehend English.

And you whine when called out on it.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
10:09 pm

Hey, Hillbilly, no peek-a-boo over the partitions!

Actually, I never even noticed the height of those separations and I’m tall. I guess some designer believes that voters are not curious. That IS progress

My polling place is in a school house. No cheating on the answers but erasures are allowed.

Getting late. Goodnight.

Dusty

November 19th, 2012
10:18 pm

Tiberius, \We need to hear from you more often but it is a busy season and…. a nice one. Thanksgiving!

Goodnight..

Glenn Beck

November 19th, 2012
10:20 pm

Tiberius

I suggest you go back and read my ealier post telling you that your thoughts mean nothing to me.

It is evident that you are bitter and still crying over the election.

Predident Romney you posted several times.

Hahahahahahahahah

;-)

Glenn Beck

November 19th, 2012
10:23 pm

President

But you get the jest.

;-)

Cathy

November 19th, 2012
11:34 pm

I support this new stadium

Richard

November 20th, 2012
5:37 am

Better yet Kyle, we should learn from the Miami Marlins and never allow something like this to happen… ever!!!

Ol' Timer

November 20th, 2012
5:44 am

The taxpayers have no more business building Mr. Blank a new stadium than they do building Walmart a big new box store down on the corner. He’s a businesman. If he wants a new stadium for his team, then he should build it.

Baker

November 20th, 2012
6:33 am

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 20th, 2012
6:39 am

Glenn Beck, why so emotional?

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 20th, 2012
6:42 am

We already have a really nice, modern stadium that draws lots of folks downtown, fills hotel rooms and restaurants, and generates tax revenue. To make the economic argument for a new stadium, backers need to show that it would INCREASE economic benefit to taxpayers over and above what the existing facility does. That seems like a difficult thing.

It’s the ego, stupid.

@@

November 20th, 2012
7:49 am

Why do I loathe emoticons?

Exhibit A

Insults with a smile?

iggy

November 20th, 2012
8:21 am

The “city of Atlanta” was once a cool place, a great kept little secret, but now its just another big city cesspool/outhouse.

CC

November 20th, 2012
8:36 am

iggy:

I believe it’s too late to flush . . .

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 20th, 2012
8:39 am

iggy, that must have been before 1981. By that time, there were pockets that were nice and safe (Midtown, Buckhead, Virginia Highlands) but those have been wrecked now too.

CC

November 20th, 2012
8:47 am

LBB:

I lived in the City of Atlanta from 1973-1981. 1981 was the year I left for the suburbs, and I felt then that I had waited one year too long!

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 20th, 2012
9:11 am

So Glenn Beck continues to have poutrage, but no coherent response.

Got it.

fair and balanced

November 20th, 2012
9:18 am

Cons in state government love to tax tourists and give Blank and the Falcons hundreds of millions of dollars in state money. After all Blank and the Falcons are not part of the 47% who do not deserve free stuff.

Dusty

November 20th, 2012
10:16 am

Where’s Kyle this morning? I bet he’s somewhere trying to get a ticket to the SEC Championship game. Go UGA!! Even that is more fun than fussing over an un-needed stadium (a “turkey” we do NOT need) So what’s next?

Ahhh….the weather! I think Thanksgiving is going to be a pretty day!! Yay ! That’s a day we DO need a real turkey. Have you noticed that turkeys are cheaper per pound than chickens? How about that? I bet Hillbilly’s neighbors (the eighty thousand chicks) are proud of that. Yes!!

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 20th, 2012
11:27 am

Already have our fresh (not frozen) turkey in the fridge, Dusty. 21.88 lbs of pure eating pleasure beginning Thursday afternoon.

Lil' Barry Bailout -Vote American

November 20th, 2012
11:31 am

Sir Paul McCartney wants folks to give up turkey at Thanksgiving, so we’re having both turkey and ham.

Bite me, food Nazis.

Hillbilly D

November 20th, 2012
11:33 am

The taxpayers have no more business building Mr. Blank a new stadium than they do building Walmart a big new box store down on the corner. He’s a businesman. If he wants a new stadium for his team, then he should build it.

Preach on, Brother.

I bet Hillbilly’s neighbors (the eighty thousand chicks) are proud of that.

The chickens and the turkeys are safe this year; the ham’s thawing now. Got a nice flock of wild turkeys living in my neck of the woods now. I’m hoping they’ll get well established and maybe in a few years, I can eat one or two of them a year.

Dusty

November 20th, 2012
12:04 pm

wow, this crowd eats GOOD!

Tiberius is going to eat almost 22 pounfs of turkey!! Lil Barry is going to eat turkey AND ham! Hillbilly is attacking a ham and plans to run wild next year.And I am going to throw in Manichevitz and Claxton fruit cake to top my feast!!

Yes, sir, it is going to be a great Thanksgiving and I think we’ll all be greater. By ten pounds each at least! We can worry about that next weekend..

Bill

November 20th, 2012
12:13 pm

For once, I agree – in principle. However, we need to be careful about how we frame the question. There is a lot of evidence that cities building a stadium to attract a team is a bad deal. The equation here however is whether we should help build a stadium to keep from losing a team. If we lose the Falcons, to we lose a critical component of downtown attractions which will tip the scales against vitality? I don’t pretend to know the answer, but we need to be sure we are asking the right question.