Some questions for those pursuing a new Falcons stadium
Gov. Nathan Deal recently said “there’s got to be a little further explanation to the public, and probably to the members of the General Assembly,” as to why tax dollars should be used to replace the Georgia Dome before its 25th birthday. He’s right.
That explanation must come from the Georgia World Congress Authority, the state agency that runs the Dome, and/or the Atlanta Falcons, the loudest voice calling for the Dome’s replacement with a $1 billion, retractable-roof stadium. About $300 million of that cost would be paid by Atlanta hotel/motel tax revenues, but only if legislators and Deal agree to raise the authority’s bonding limit. The Falcons and the NFL would cover the rest.
I’m hardly naive about the ability of powerful people to get what they want, and Falcons owner Arthur Blank no doubt qualifies as just such a person. So does Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed, who backs the project. And I’m hardly a supporter of ditching the Dome, as I’ve written before.
But if the GWCA and the Falcons decide to heed these admonitions and make their case publicly, here are two questions they might answer.
Why now?
The Dome opened just 20 years ago and has undergone at least one significant renovation. I attended two football games there just last year — and plan to be there again for next month’s Southeastern Conference football championship — and can attest it’s a fine place to watch a football game.
So far, the primary rationale for the proposed timeline of opening a new stadium by 2017 is that’s when the bonds for the Dome will be paid off. Well, that and the fact the Falcons believe they can make more money from a new, more modern stadium, and would like to start doing so ASAP.
But the Falcons’ profitability is of little concern to Atlantans, and we aren’t required to have debt obligations tied to a stadium every year. There are many ways the city could use several million dollars a year even if it the money were freed only temporarily.
(Yes, using the hotel/motel revenues for other purposes would require a change in state law. So would raising the GWCA’s bonding capacity.)
Even if we accept the need for a new stadium at some point, there’s the question of why tax dollars should help fund it. Which leads to: What’s in it for taxpayers?
The economic benefits of stadiums notoriously tend to be exaggerated. And it’s not as if we don’t already have a domed stadium in Atlanta, so the benefits of a newer stadium are even less obvious.
One intriguing aspect of a new stadium, from a fiscal perspective, is the possibility it would host more events. The tentative terms agreed to by the GWCA and the Falcons call for the state to own the building while the Falcons “operate” it.
In theory, this means the Falcons, as a private entity, can take more financial risks than a state agency should in recruiting performers and events. In theory, this means the new stadium would be used more days of the year than the Dome, bringing in more money.
But how many more? Leading to how much more money? How much money could we expect to come from out of town — rather than from locals who would simply spend less elsewhere in our region?
How much business could nearby hotels, restaurants and other establishments expect? And, in turn, how much might this boost city coffers to offset the tax revenue devoted to the new stadium?
Stadium skeptics won’t be satisfied without answers to these kinds of questions. Let’s hear them.
RELATED POSTS:
- New Atlanta stadium: Don’t raise the roof for a Super Bowl
- The things we’d forgo to build a new Falcons stadium
- Falcons stadium proposal begs a look at football’s future
– By Kyle Wingfield
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193 comments Add your comment
BW
November 19th, 2012
4:23 pm
“change” should be “care”
Glenn Beck
November 19th, 2012
4:29 pm
“Atlanta is full of panhandlers and, not coincidentally, Obozo voters.”
Lying as usual or you can post a substantiated fact on how panhandlers vote?
Thought so
Lexi3
November 19th, 2012
4:34 pm
So, Kyle, the project follows the “Cash for clunkers” model of prudent public finance? Destroy perfectly good assets to create a place for replacement assets? Will the property “owners” of the old real estate be paying ad valorem taxes on that parcel?
Kyle Wingfield
November 19th, 2012
4:38 pm
BW: I’m really not sure what you’re asking me. The point I’m trying to make is that the city of Atlanta has better uses for the money than replacing a 20-year-old stadium.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 19th, 2012
4:41 pm
Uh, Glenn Beck?
I suggest you bone up on your reading comprehension skills.
The line you have posted your poutrage about doesn’t suggest how panhandlers vote, but rather how Atlanta votes.
Which votes majority Democrat, therefore, is full of Obama voters.
Kyle Wingfield
November 19th, 2012
4:41 pm
Lex (now Lexi3): I think you’re giving the proponents too much credit for thinking. Their reason for wanting to tear down the Dome and build a new stadium is for the Falcons to make more money. Period.
But you are right that is wrong to destroy assets and then describe the money spent to replace them as some kind of economic growth.
They BOTH suck
November 19th, 2012
4:45 pm
Kyle @ 4:38
I agree with you, but wouldn’t place a bet in Vegas against enough of the “right people” coming around to the side of a new stadium before it is all over with.
Come on man; hope you are not counting on Governor “Let’s make a Deal” to hold out too long as well as some of his cronies.
How much different is GA politics then when the Dems ran the show? Not much really if you are honest about the situation. At that time you had the City of Atlanta and the other Dems throughout the state. Now it is the City of Atlanta and the Repubs with a good portion of the Repubs being the same Democrats with a name change.
Game has not changed that much.
Glenn Beck
November 19th, 2012
4:48 pm
Tiberius
I don’t care what you post or what you think. You are a lonely nobody to me and most others.
The blogger I replied too can’t back verify what I stated nor can you, but you can continue to play semantics if that makes you feel better about yourself
They BOTH suck
November 19th, 2012
4:52 pm
Kyle
Call me cynical, but once the pie is allocated and agreed on by enough of the “right folks”, a “Deal” will be struck.
mike
November 19th, 2012
4:56 pm
Kyle, I think that, in addition to the retractable roof, they should have a retractable playing field. You know one of those deals where the playing field runs on trolley tracks outside so’s the grass can grow. I also think the new stadium should have palm trees in the parking which should be covered with heated plastic domes in our tough Atlanta winters. A botanical gardens would really be a big hit with football fans as would a wine-tasting auditorium. What the heck, the sky’s the limit, let’s have hot tubs and saunas the upper level as well. Maybe I’ve left something out. I’ll get back to you.
Keymon
November 19th, 2012
5:02 pm
“About $300 million of that cost would be paid by Atlanta hotel/motel tax revenues,…”
I agree with Kyle on this, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Georgia Dome and that $300 million could be put to much better use.
Furnishmerchant
November 19th, 2012
5:09 pm
If you actually think that the estimates of marginal economic benefits which are trotted out in support of this deal should be given any credence whatsoever in evaluating it from the taxpayers’ perspective, then I need to talk with you about another deal for a classic bridge across the East River. Speaking of deals, do we have a clue yet how the Gov and his posse will make out on the new stadium, or is that only to be learned later?
Kyle Wingfield
November 19th, 2012
5:21 pm
Furnish @ 5:09: We’ll have to see them before we know whether to give them any credence. But one thing I know is that Mr. Blank and the NFL wouldn’t be putting up $700M of their own money if they didn’t believe they’d be getting a return. Let’s see those numbers and figure out what they mean for taxpayers.
They BOTH suck
November 19th, 2012
5:25 pm
Kyle
It is Crony Capitalism. It knows no party. Anyone thinks it is a one way street, isn’t even worth debating.
Bet you a steak dinner at Hal’s that this “Deal” goes down.
mike
November 19th, 2012
5:26 pm
But, Kyle, with a new dome we could be having monster truck challenges and tractor pulls every Friday and Saturday nights! Think of the millions of rednecks we could be bringing to Atlanta every year I’m in!!
Hillbilly D
November 19th, 2012
5:31 pm
It is Crony Capitalism. It knows no party. Anyone thinks it is a one way street, isn’t even worth debating.
True enough. I never have understood the “it’s ok for my guy but not for your guy” mentality. If something is wrong for everybody else, then it’s wrong for me to do it…..and vice versa. I believe all folks are equal and we all should be held to the same standard. No mulligans.
Tiledawg
November 19th, 2012
5:34 pm
I hate the dome! one reason to build it is more people like me would come to an open air stadium rather than a drab, stale air dome! gimme some fresh air!
wallbanger
November 19th, 2012
5:37 pm
I have lived in Atlanta for 21 years and have gone to exactly one Falcons game. They are a bunch of thugs in a second rate city that doesn’t even get behind them, so they are looking for more corporate dollars. I wouldn’t miss them if they left. As far as Atlanta goes, my organization had a convention here about 5 years ago and 2 people were mugged on the street–first time in its 55 year history. They sure won’t be coming back.
md
November 19th, 2012
5:40 pm
In summoning my inner democrat, I vote 100% in favor of a new stadium……I don’t live there any longer and won’t pay the tax, so I vote in favor………..
They BOTH suck
November 19th, 2012
5:42 pm
HillBilly D
The “Deal” will go down. Mark my words. And the majority of the same Democrats running Atlanta will be reelected along with the majority of the Republicans who are being “apprehensive” now, but will help push through this “Deal”.
Wish it were not so, but just being a realist.
The state, city and “independent” studies & analysis done by consulting groups will “show” the economic impact over an above any tax implications and worries the citizens may have about this expenditure.
Writing is on the wall and look who is running the state…….. “Let’s make a Deal”. He is known for it.
Heck if Perdue or MIller were living on Paces Ferry this would already be a done deal. It would be picture time with shovels and hard hats on for the city and state hierarchy.
mike
November 19th, 2012
5:46 pm
Tiledawg: “I hate the dome! one reason to build it is more people like me would come to an open air stadium rather than a drab, stale air dome! gimme some fresh air!”
Umm hmmmmmmh! It’s 36 degrees, it’s raining, it’s miserable. Still want that fresh air?
Oh wait It’s 36 degrees, it’s a beautiful sunny day! Still want that fresh air?
Hillbilly D
November 19th, 2012
5:47 pm
TBS @ 5:42
I agree it’s a done deal; they’re just trying to put the hog in a fancy dress.
They BOTH suck
November 19th, 2012
5:52 pm
Hillbilly
Think I played some Isley’s one time and you mentioned you liked them. If not, my bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=714-Dsoj1VU&feature=related
They BOTH suck
November 19th, 2012
5:58 pm
HillBilly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DNztjQJqTI
Womack with Ronald Isley
Ron Wood and Keith Richards were two of the “studio musicians” when Womack recorded this song and album.
CC
November 19th, 2012
6:34 pm
I know that this echoes what has already been said, but a new stadium is in Atlanta’s future. All that is left to the stroking of a few more folks, the presentation of the unified front, the decoration of the plan and the fleecing of the taxpayers: Voila! A brand new stadium for Blank courtesy of the taxpayer!
Schmucks!
yuzeyurbrane
November 19th, 2012
7:01 pm
Gerald–sorry I am so late in responding further but some of us have to earn a living. I was born, raised and currently live in Atlanta, just so you will know that I am not speaking as 1 of the outsiders you seem to look down upon. I will concede that you seem to be passionate in your advocacy for a new stadium, but I suggest that you do some research before spouting inaccurate facts. True the hotel tax is dedicated to use on things like stadiums. But just a legislative act. It is not carved into Mt. Rushmore or Stone Mountain nor is it part of state Constitution. As Kyle points out, the legislature can just as easily allow those funds to be used on education or just rescind it and lower hotel rates in Atlanta. You also seem to be fearful that Atlanta’s convention business would be destroyed by a failure to build a new stadium. Where is the market research data to back up this assertion? Look, because there is none. The credible market research that exists leads to the opposite conclusion. How many conventions even use the Ga. Dome now? How many would even care whether we have a new stadium? We have excellent facilities for most any sized convention in the country, loosing out on only a few mega-conventions, primarily because we don’t have as many hotel rooms or adult diversions as Vegas. I honestly don’t know why you are so passionate about this unless your name is Blank or you are just a blind to all reason pro-football fan. By the way, remember the Thrashers? Did you get this bent out of shape for them?
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
7:30 pm
NEWS ALERT
NO TWILIGHT FOR TWINKIES!!!!!
CC
November 19th, 2012
7:35 pm
Does this mean (gasp!) Twinkies may survive?
Chip
November 19th, 2012
7:39 pm
The existing Dome is just fine. If Blank and the spoiled whiny ball-players want even more money, then they can pay for it themselves. They WILL make their money back… the region is full of pathetic brain-dead drunks who will blow their income on game days so they can worship their idols in person. Leave the taxpayers out of it… get the dough from the idiot fans who live vicariously through the players because the idiot fans have no lives of their own… or common sense.
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
7:40 pm
As I was saying……
No twilight for Twinkies
The bankruptcy court judge said there was not enough mediation.. So now there will be mediation in moderation to prevent medication.
This may bring about a union suit in mid winter.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 19th, 2012
7:40 pm
If the Twinkie survives, look for Obozo to jump in just in time to take credit.
Of course, lardass Moochelle might frown on someone enjoying a snack cake once in a while.
Ho Ho
November 19th, 2012
7:43 pm
CC
Twinkies will survive and the union will get a better deal than they turned away last week.
The owners bluff has been called. They attempted to make it appear they would just close down, but cooler heads will prevail.
Long live the TWINKIE
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 19th, 2012
7:44 pm
The union will make concessions, just as the owners demanded. Checkmate.
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
7:52 pm
Confessions and concessions may bring about recessions.
Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism
November 19th, 2012
7:52 pm
Gerald,
yuzey is right. When the Dome is paid off and the Falcons have moved to Andalusia, do you think the legislature would repeal that hotel/motel tax. Heck no, they would then use it to fund something else, just like they could choose to fund something other than a new Palace for Arthur, if they wished. You seem to feel that if they don’t use the hotel tax on the new stadium, it will just go to waste as it is dedicated to paying off a stadium. Taxes never go away; just grow.
Ho Ho
November 19th, 2012
7:53 pm
They will make concessions, but it wont be the deal that they turned down. It will be better.
Period, plan and simple
Spin all you like.
Owners balked
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
7:54 pm
It is tough to bluff when you’ve had enough.
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
7:57 pm
The owners balked. The unions talked. The workers walked.
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
8:04 pm
Right, Rafe 7:52
To paraphrase General MacArthur:
“Old taxes never die. They just multiply in every way.”
Ho Ho
November 19th, 2012
8:11 pm
CC and barry
Look on the bright side. Your mommies will still be packing Hostess products in your lunch along with your peanut butter and jelly samiches, fruit roll ups and juicy juice.
Greg Camp
November 19th, 2012
8:18 pm
The Georgia Dome does not need to be replaced and the city/state have other needs to be addressed. Sorry Arthur , Kasim, Nathan, and Rodger. Nice try.
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
8:20 pm
Are there any genius mathematicians here tonight?.
If I build a one billion dolllar stadium with fifty thousand seats, what will be the ticket price plus one hotdog to recover the billion in ten years?
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
8:22 pm
OH and just one football game a day.
CC
November 19th, 2012
8:24 pm
Dusty:
Quite a bit more than I’d pay!
Gary
November 19th, 2012
8:25 pm
Without a new stadium, the Atlanta Falcons will become the L.A. Falcons. That is Atlanta sports in a nutshell, the teams are here just long enough to get good and then we run them off. Way to go!!
CC
November 19th, 2012
8:31 pm
Gary:
So . . . the taxpayers should give Blank what he wants so the team will stay?
@@
November 19th, 2012
8:32 pm
Sports stuff?
Alls I know is if you put a dome and a bowl together, you get a ball.
CC
November 19th, 2012
8:33 pm
The owners winked, the union blinked and the Twinkies twinked . . .
CC
November 19th, 2012
8:36 pm
@@:
In my younger days, when you put a dome and a bowl together, it always gave me a headache the next day!
Glenn Beck
November 19th, 2012
8:37 pm
The city and the state are going to give Blank what he wants on your behalf.
And the mayor and governor will both get reelected.