Some questions for those pursuing a new Falcons stadium
Gov. Nathan Deal recently said “there’s got to be a little further explanation to the public, and probably to the members of the General Assembly,” as to why tax dollars should be used to replace the Georgia Dome before its 25th birthday. He’s right.
That explanation must come from the Georgia World Congress Authority, the state agency that runs the Dome, and/or the Atlanta Falcons, the loudest voice calling for the Dome’s replacement with a $1 billion, retractable-roof stadium. About $300 million of that cost would be paid by Atlanta hotel/motel tax revenues, but only if legislators and Deal agree to raise the authority’s bonding limit. The Falcons and the NFL would cover the rest.
I’m hardly naive about the ability of powerful people to get what they want, and Falcons owner Arthur Blank no doubt qualifies as just such a person. So does Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed, who backs the project. And I’m hardly a supporter of ditching the Dome, as I’ve written before.
But if the GWCA and the Falcons decide to heed these admonitions and make their case publicly, here are two questions they might answer.
Why now?
The Dome opened just 20 years ago and has undergone at least one significant renovation. I attended two football games there just last year — and plan to be there again for next month’s Southeastern Conference football championship — and can attest it’s a fine place to watch a football game.
So far, the primary rationale for the proposed timeline of opening a new stadium by 2017 is that’s when the bonds for the Dome will be paid off. Well, that and the fact the Falcons believe they can make more money from a new, more modern stadium, and would like to start doing so ASAP.
But the Falcons’ profitability is of little concern to Atlantans, and we aren’t required to have debt obligations tied to a stadium every year. There are many ways the city could use several million dollars a year even if it the money were freed only temporarily.
(Yes, using the hotel/motel revenues for other purposes would require a change in state law. So would raising the GWCA’s bonding capacity.)
Even if we accept the need for a new stadium at some point, there’s the question of why tax dollars should help fund it. Which leads to: What’s in it for taxpayers?
The economic benefits of stadiums notoriously tend to be exaggerated. And it’s not as if we don’t already have a domed stadium in Atlanta, so the benefits of a newer stadium are even less obvious.
One intriguing aspect of a new stadium, from a fiscal perspective, is the possibility it would host more events. The tentative terms agreed to by the GWCA and the Falcons call for the state to own the building while the Falcons “operate” it.
In theory, this means the Falcons, as a private entity, can take more financial risks than a state agency should in recruiting performers and events. In theory, this means the new stadium would be used more days of the year than the Dome, bringing in more money.
But how many more? Leading to how much more money? How much money could we expect to come from out of town — rather than from locals who would simply spend less elsewhere in our region?
How much business could nearby hotels, restaurants and other establishments expect? And, in turn, how much might this boost city coffers to offset the tax revenue devoted to the new stadium?
Stadium skeptics won’t be satisfied without answers to these kinds of questions. Let’s hear them.
RELATED POSTS:
- New Atlanta stadium: Don’t raise the roof for a Super Bowl
- The things we’d forgo to build a new Falcons stadium
- Falcons stadium proposal begs a look at football’s future
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
193 comments Add your comment
Gerald
November 19th, 2012
11:54 am
Hillbilly D:
Los Angeles gets support from California that Atlanta will never get from Georgia. That is a big difference.
Kyle Wingfield
November 19th, 2012
11:55 am
yuze @ 11:52: Oh, I agree the evidence we have is conclusive on that point. That’s why I’m saying we need to hear evidence to the contrary, along the lines I’ve spelled out, if we as citizens are to change our minds.
Bob Loblaw
November 19th, 2012
11:57 am
@Tiberius:
Tampa won yesterday on the road and is 6-4. Miami is 4-6 and has gotten better every week. They are competitive. Jacksonville is not, yet they don’t have any blackouts. They openly talk about the heat being a competitive advantage in September.
CC
November 19th, 2012
11:58 am
Hillbilly D@11:05 am:
You’re right again . . . as you so often are!
JamVet
November 19th, 2012
12:01 pm
Excellent article, Kyle.
No more socialism for the rich and capitalism for the rest of us…
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
12:02 pm
carlosgvv 11:42
I think you don’t even live in Atlanta or anywhere near it. If you did, you would know about the numerous agencies set up by non-profits and others to help the homeless. Everything from housing, meals, re-education, detoxification, employment,job training, clothing, staples available to one and all.
If the homeless are not getting help in Atlanta, they either don’t want it or haven’t tried to find what is available. If you want to contribute, I will be glad to send you a list. All of them can use donations of all kinds. I”m sure you would like to help here since you continue to present such a dismal if uninformed opinion.
Gerald
November 19th, 2012
12:03 pm
@Kyle:
Pardon me, but your list of items that the stadium money could be used for included the Savannah port deepening and an outer perimeter or new north-south expressway, neither of which would do squat for Atlanta itself directly in terms of its ability to attract jobs and revenue. (And it also included lowering property taxes by one mill, which wouldn’t do squat for the city, but would make the right wing foundation folks happy.)
“When taxpayers see $5 million, from any source but including public money, being spent for this kind of purpose, they naturally bridle when asked to tax themselves more to pay for congestion relief. ”
Actually, the amount of money used to build the Ashford-Dunwoody DDI (which has been pretty much a failure by the way) would have never been associated by T-SPLOST – or publicly known anyway – had it not been for your baiting. Incidentally, of all the unwise money spent by GDOT, why point out a project in Atlanta that is being 2/3rds paid for by private funds to begin with?
Sorry, but it still looks to me like Republicans deciding that tax money raised in a Democratic city can’t be used to better that city’s prospects. How’s about go telling the commissioners in Gwinnett County how they should use their tax money instead?
Just Saying..
November 19th, 2012
12:04 pm
As my aunt says whenever a problematic issue arises, “No time to fix it, vote Republican!!”
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
12:05 pm
Gerald,
Did you mean to say that GEORGIA gets little help from ATLANTA?
You do know that opinion of yours goes both ways.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 19th, 2012
12:08 pm
Saying Tampa and Miami are competitive is like saying Obama is thrifty.
getalife
November 19th, 2012
12:18 pm
We just remodeled the Superdome but a new stadium is a job creator.
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
12:20 pm
Tiberius,12:08
You made me laugh.. That’s funny.
Anyway, I don’t even like football. They could change the dome into a city reservoir as far as I am concerned. Make it into something useful.
Meli
November 19th, 2012
12:23 pm
What I note is that New Orleans built the Superdome in the early 1970s. After Hurricane Katrina hit, New Orleans would’ve had carte blanche to build a brand new stadium–just tear the whole thing down and build a brand new one. They didn’t. And yet in that time the Saints have won a Super Bowl and until this year were seen as one of the NFL’s perennial contenders. All in a stadium that is pretty much 40 years old. Now I love the Falcons and Arthur Blank seems to be a decent man, but the Falcons hardly need a new stadium when the Saints have a stadium that is twice as old as the Georgia Dome and they appear to be making lots of money with it.
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
12:24 pm
getalife
“A new stadium is a job creator.” Yeah, I bet. Just like the “stimulus” was a job creator.
I think we don’t need anymore of these “job creators”. We can’t afford them.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 19th, 2012
12:25 pm
One “need” is clear:
bigger MONSTER truck shows! Let’s get our priorities straight….
Gerald
November 19th, 2012
12:32 pm
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
12:05 pm
“Gerald,
Did you mean to say that GEORGIA gets little help from ATLANTA? You do know that opinion of yours goes both ways.”
Except that my opinion is, you know, right. Take the universities and Hartsfield alone away and Georgia is worse off than Alabama, South Carolina and Mississippi. And that doesn’t even factor in A) the tax revenue that gets redistributed from Atlanta to the rest of the state and B) the only reason why the suburbs exist is because of their proximity to Atlanta, which was a major city with large employers and vital institutions back when the suburbs still had more black bears than people.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 19th, 2012
12:33 pm
Here’s a list of 6 restaurants you need to avoid if you want to avoid having your food handled by sick people:
Papa John’s Pizza
Olive Garden / Red Lobster
Hurricane Grill and Wings, and also some Denny’s and Dairy Queen Franchises
Applebee’s
There are a lot of chain restaurants in this country. If I’m going to eat in one I’d like for the employees to have access to health care. I’d prefer not to have germ-laden, typhoid Mary’s handling my food, thank you very much. And it is common sense to ask, if they are cutting corners on this, what other health regulations are they skirting? I think I’ll be eating elsewhere.
Salon.com
carlosgvv
November 19th, 2012
12:34 pm
Dusty – 12:02 “haven’t tried to find what is available”
I try to stay away from downtown as much as possible. Still, from time to time I have to go to Atlanta. There, I’m constantaly fending off agressive pandhandlers and triping over people sleeping on the street. Once, while in the company of some ladies from work, we were yelled at and threatened by a crazed homeless man. Needless to say, there wasn’t a cop in sight.
Son, I think my knowledge of Atlanta far surpasses yours.
Jefferson
November 19th, 2012
12:35 pm
Plenty of money laying on the table.
yuzeyurbrane
November 19th, 2012
12:37 pm
Gerald, I don’t see why you are trying to frame this as an Atlanta v. the rest of the state issue. Atlantans care just as much as other Georgians about the use of their tax dollars on priorities like education rather than toys and cash for those who don’t need it.
Gerald
November 19th, 2012
12:43 pm
Meli:
And despite the awesomeness that is the Super Dome, New Orleans needs legalized gambling (plus the police batting an eye at everything else), the French quarter, Mardi Gras, Lake Pontchartrain etc. to come anywhere close to Atlanta in attracting major events. Gee, wonder why that is?
And no one has still answered the question: if GWCC taxes shouldn’t be spent on facilities to make sure that the GWCC is a viable competitor regionally and nationally – to draw conventions and other large events that would otherwise go to New Orleans for example – then what should it be used on?
Look at who Atlanta is competing with for conventions and major sporting events mind you. Cities where gambling is legal like Las Vegas, Atlantic City and New Orleans. Cities in larger metropolitan areas like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and Dallas. Cities with beaches and other tourist amenities like Miami, Los Angeles, New Orleans. Cities with better transportation like, well pretty much everywhere.
Really the only thing that Atlanta can offer to compete with places like that is having the best, most modern facilities. If Atlanta doesn’t build the Georgia Dome, the SECCG and all those Final 4s go elsewhere. And if Atlanta doesn’t keep up in the facilities arms race, future major events will also go elsewhere. And it has already started happening. Atlanta has been passed over as a BCS city and the site of the Champions Bowl (the SEC/Big 12 playoff play-in) and is a longshot to even be one of the rotating sites for the NCAA football playoff for the at-large team. And for the folks who want to throw up their hands and say “So what” … it isn’t like Gwinnett, Cobb or Forsyth are attracting these events either. Or like they ever will. In 100 years.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 19th, 2012
12:47 pm
Just Saying: As my aunt says whenever a problematic issue arises, “No time to fix it, vote Republican!!”
———–
Your aunt is an idiot.
Gerald
November 19th, 2012
12:49 pm
yuzeyurbrane:
“Atlantans care just as much as other Georgians about the use of their tax dollars on priorities like education rather than toys and cash for those who don’t need it.”
The GWCC tax that will be used to find this stadium cannot be spent on education. It can only be spent on things related to keeping Atlanta a viable convention destination (which by the way generates tax revenue that is used to fund education). And I feel perfectly justified in mentioning “the rest of Georgia” when the vast majority of the negative comments on this issue (and on the Beltline and on MARTA and on APS and on pretty much everything else that has to do with the city) is made by people who do not live in Atlanta and do not pay taxes – hotel/motel or otherwise – here. Since they care enough about Atlanta to feel the need to oppose anything and everything that might actually benefit the city, reminding them how much the city contributes to the state while getting nothing in return is very appropriate.
Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism
November 19th, 2012
12:52 pm
Finn, I thought that the great provider, Warren Buffet, owned DQ. I am sure a word with Barry will have all those DQ employees on an insurance roll, before you know it.
Glad you will not be at those restaurants, don’t like crowds myself. Fortunately most people pick restaurants on how good and economical the food is, rather than whether the employees get free birth control and annual physicals.
Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism
November 19th, 2012
12:57 pm
As my wife says whenever a problematic issue arises, “No money to give to fix it, the government has all the money, let them deal with it.”
Aquagirl
November 19th, 2012
12:58 pm
If Atlanta doesn’t build the Georgia Dome, the SECCG and all those Final 4s go elsewhere.
Fine, I hope the door hits them in the @$$. Preferably the doorknob portion if you know what I mean.
Superbowls and big sporting events may thrill the jock-sniffers, they aren’t the only conventions. We have gospel conventions, woodworking conventions, geek conventions…all of these bring huge bucks in without a bunch of spoiled athletic supporters demanding subsidized tongue baths.
Spend the money on free transportation for convention-goers, more police, or repeal the law and let the hotels spend it themselves. But subsidizing Arthur Blank and millionaires? HELL NO.
Eff them. We can get far better returns for the money.
Heckle and JayKyle
November 19th, 2012
1:16 pm
Look, the Falcons deserved to be 1-9 not 9-1. They are the worst 9-1 team I’ve ever seen. They certainly don’t deserve no state of the art locker rooms. The Falcons. How many interceptions can you throw and still win? I think we just found out. Love the Facons. Give them their damn new crib, blood. So what if we don’t get to fix underground again. We want football. FOOTBALL!!!!!
Dusty
November 19th, 2012
1:34 pm
Carlos
I live in Atlanta. You don’t. A few trips downtown does not make you an expert.
All pan handlers are not homeless. They make a living that way. Many restrictions have been made on them. Every street cannot be patrolled.
Atlanta’s many benefits for the homeless attract more that hear about them.. Some people come here thinking jobs are available.. Hard to find.. Throw in the poor economy and the needs of the homeless grow rapidly. In that respect, I doubt that Atlanta is any different from big cities across the USA.
Just Saying..
November 19th, 2012
1:39 pm
Lil Barry @ 12:47-
I believe I’m going to let you start that conversation with her…
CC
November 19th, 2012
2:00 pm
Here is a list of the top 5 restaurants deserving of your patronage:
Papa John’s Pizza
Olive Garden / Red Lobster
Hurricane Grill and Wings, and also some Denny’s and Dairy Queen
Applebee’s
Bon appetit!
stands for decibels
November 19th, 2012
2:14 pm
Well, since you mentioned it, CC:
There are a lot of chain restaurants in this country. If I’m going to eat in one I’d like for the employees to have access to health care. I’d prefer not to have germ-laden, typhoid Marys handling my food, thank you very much. And it is common sense to ask, if they are cutting corners on this, what other health regulations are they skirting? I think I’ll be eating elsewhere.
CC
November 19th, 2012
2:16 pm
“I believe I’m going to let you start that conversation with her…”
Hark! An intelligent comment from Just Saying.. !
It is also probably an intelligent decision!
CC
November 19th, 2012
2:19 pm
stands for decibels@2:14 PM:
Progressive scare tactics fail to trouble me.
Gerald
November 19th, 2012
2:19 pm
Aquagirl:
“We have gospel conventions, woodworking conventions, geek conventions…all of these bring huge bucks in without a bunch of spoiled athletic supporters demanding subsidized tongue baths.”
So does Macon. So does Toledo. So does any medium-sized city in this country. Atlanta isn’t those. They’re a major city. And you’ll spend the money on something better? What pray tell? Folks don’t want to spend it on education (they merely claim to want to when the alternative is a stadium), folks don’t want to spend it on transportation, they don’t want to spend it on social services … what other use for the money is there? (Don’t say tax cuts. Even Wingfield acknowledged that this $300 million only amounts to about $20 million a year. He estimated that it would be a savings of $250 a year, and that is only for property owners. So no supply side boost to the region from that.)
The folks who keep insisting that this is a bad idea certainly don’t have any good ones.
CC
November 19th, 2012
2:22 pm
Andrew Malcolm of Investor’s Business Daily:
“Romney in 703 words graciously admitted his loss. He said the word
“America” five times, the word “pray” three times and the words “Thank
you” 21 times.
The Real Good Talker, who’s never seen anything he couldn’t throw a
speech at, took 2,163 words to claim victory in what is traditionally a
moment to call for unity and healing after a divisive campaign.
The victorious Chicagoan, who promised before the last election to end
Washington’s partisan bitterness, strangely uttered the word “fight” five
times and “thank you” but seven times. He spoke the word “unify” zero
times, “unity” zero times, “heal” zero times and “pray” zero times.
He did, however, manage to mention himself 27 times.
JamVet
November 19th, 2012
2:26 pm
(CNN) – Newt Gingrich had harsh words Sunday for GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney’s suggestion that he lost the election because President Barack Obama offered “gifts” to African-Americans, Hispanics, and young voters.
“I just think it’s nuts,” Gingrich said on ABC. “I mean, first of all, it’s insulting.”
“The job of a political leader in part is to understand the people. If we can’t offer a better future that is believable to more people, we’re not going to win,” said Gingrich, who launched blistering attacks on Romney last spring while seeking the presidential nomination himself.
Revelation of Romney’s comments drew criticism from others within his own party, such as Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal – who said a winning strategy does not involve “insulting (voters) and saying their votes were bought” – and Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who said, “Rhetoric like this keeps digging a hole for the Republican Party.”
Romney was quoted by several news outlets as having made the comments on a call with top donors Wednesday, and CNN confirmed he made similar arguments in a separate call earlier in the day.
Chris
November 19th, 2012
2:51 pm
I would love a nice outdoor stadium in Atlanta,in the fall it is rarely bad enough weather that you can’t be outside. Why should I care if people living in the city of Atlanta pay more in taxes or if hotel taxes are higher? I live in the suburbs and drive in- makes no difference to me.
stands for decibels
November 19th, 2012
2:59 pm
[Obama] did, however, manage to mention himself 27 times.
Whereas the ever-modest Mitt referred to himself just 20 times in a speech that was one-third the length.
You dont say
November 19th, 2012
3:08 pm
When the best you can post is an Op Ed about what the WINNER and loser said on election night, the sting still hurts…..
Oh well it was funny.
Thanks for the laughs
Dave
November 19th, 2012
3:13 pm
Question three: Why should we spend any public money unless there is equity attached to the “investment?” I’m not a fan of public risk and private profit. Mr. Blank and other NFL owners make plenty of money. If there’s more to be made by a new stadium, let them pay for it. The problem with these deals is that government has proven to be a patsy – why pull the money out of your own pocket when you can scare/entice your local government folks to risk it? Answer, you shouldn’t. As someone used to say about drugs “just say know.” The Birmingham Falcons has a ring to it, and it would make for a nice day trip.
CC
November 19th, 2012
3:29 pm
“The Birmingham Falcons has a ring to it”
Or even, the Willacoochee Falcons! I know those folks would laugh at Blank and his request for THEIR money!
Aquagirl
November 19th, 2012
3:32 pm
So does Macon. So does Toledo. So does any medium-sized city in this country. Atlanta isn’t those
Gerald, Macon and Toledo also have sports facilities befitting their size. Our gospel and geek conventions are a little bigger than what you’d find in Toledo. The International Woodworking Fair may not get your testosterone raging but pulling in 50,000 + people with serious business on their minds does bring in money. Plenty of those people are industry leaders, they might spend a few more bucks than Drunky McDrunkerson the football fan.
I’m sorry you don’t think anything but a sporting event would draw big numbers of people with money to spend. Maybe you need to put down the remote and do something with your weekends besides watch men’s fannies.
carlosgvv
November 19th, 2012
3:48 pm
Dusty – 1:34
It’s true I don’t live in Atlanta.
I’ts also true your 1:34 simply confirms what I said about Atlanta’s large number of agressive and, at times, dangerous panhandlers.
I’ve lost count of the number of people who have visited Atlanta for the first time and go on to say that NO WAY will they ever come there again. Unfortunately, the prevailing cultural and ethnic leadership in Atlanta either can’t or won’t make any meaningful attempt to solve this problem.
I did live in Atlanta many years ago. Today’s Atlanta, compared to the one I knew, tells me that the city is now ruined and has been for years.
Erwin's cat
November 19th, 2012
3:50 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJQVlVHsFF8
Aquagirl….ligthen up and enjoy the ride
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 19th, 2012
3:51 pm
Atlanta is full of panhandlers and, not coincidentally, Obozo voters.
Aquagirl
November 19th, 2012
3:56 pm
Well thank you Erwin. Just what I needed.
Can one of you religious people pray for your god to strike me blind and deaf so I never have to experience that again?
lex
November 19th, 2012
3:57 pm
So, if a new stadium is built, what becomes of the old stadium? Who pays the carrying costs? Won’t the new stadium cannibalize events and revenues from the old? If the Falcons will be holding us hostage in perpetuity for new stadia we might as well cut the cord now.
Job creating stimulus? If that is an efficient way to employ people in construction think of the number of jobs we could create by tearing down all the office buildings, housing stock and infrastructure in the state. Why, with the multiplier effect we’d all be rich!
Hillbilly D
November 19th, 2012
4:02 pm
Couldn’t we have at least had B J Thomas (or Blue Swede, even), instead of the Hasselhoff?
Kyle Wingfield
November 19th, 2012
4:08 pm
lex @ 3:57: The current plan is to demolish the Georgia Dome if a new stadium is built.
BW
November 19th, 2012
4:19 pm
Kyle…do you change more about how existing hotel/motel taxes are based used or the tax itself? Again the tax was already renewed in 2010 expressly for this type of use. Denying the raise in bonding capacity seems like sour grapes. I also thought the Republican party was about small government yet nearly all changes to institutions save the Atlanta airport that contribute the most to Georgia’s GDP needs to be approved by the state legislature…are Republicans for small government or not? I would argue that this state’s Republicans are for big government (outside of the metro Atlanta region for sure). I have yet to see a full funding plan in place but if the CITY OF ATLANTA taxpayers choose to tax themselves for this or other infrastructure the state should not interfere with that which seems to be what you are advocating with the bonding authority issue…maybe I completely mis-read what you are getting at…please feel free to correct me