Twinkies and abortion: Two from the ‘I hope you’re happy’ files

One from each side of the ideological spectrum. I’ll start with a smack upside the religious right’s collective head:

According to Rasmussen Reports, in a survey conducted after a presidential election in which abortion rights and the stupid statements of two GOP Senate candidates featured far too heavily, 54 percent of Americans describe themselves as “pro-choice” versus 38 percent who say they’re “pro-life.” This is in sharp contrast with Gallup’s finding back in May, in which half of respondents said they were “pro-life” versus 41 percent who were “pro-choice.” In fact, Gallup’s annual survey on the topic hasn’t found such a sharp pro-choice majority since 1995.

It will be interesting to see what Gallup finds on the question next May, after election-related passions have cooled. But to the degree the Rasmussen survey shows the consequences of changing what it means to be “pro-life,” I blame those right-to-life groups that have pushed politicians to oppose exceptions for rape and incest.

Senate candidates Todd Akin of Missouri and Richard Mourdock of Indiana probably wouldn’t have even been talking about abortion and rape together if not for this anti-exceptions push, a.k.a. the “personhood” movement. I’ve explained my thoughts on personhood a few times before, and this was yet another election that bore out my point. In fact, my point about personhood being a political loser will, unfortunately, be truer than ever if one of the conservative Supreme Court justices or court swing vote Anthony Kennedy ends up leaving the bench during the next four years and President Obama gets to nominate his replacement. The question will truly be settled for another generation, in large part because the RTL groups tried to move the goal posts before they ever made much of a kick.

So, to the degree Akin and Mourdock hurt Mitt Romney’s candidacy — and I think Romney’s showing with women, particularly single women, and younger voters suggests they probably did — the hard-line right-to-lifers have really bitten themselves. Way to go.

Now for the stubborn boneheadedness from the other side, via the AP:

The maker of the iconic U.S. snack Twinkies said Friday it is going out of business and laying off all of its 18,500 workers after a national strike crippled its operations. …

Hostess Brands had warned employees that it would file a motion in U.S. Bankruptcy Court to unwind its business and sell assets if plant operations didn’t return to normal levels by Thursday evening.

Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden, er, snacks.

Insisting on your position as a union is tricky enough in normal times. When unemployment is around 8 percent and a bankruptcy judge has authorized the company to rework some of its labor deals, you’d think the union would be wise enough to realize things could end this way.

Apparently not. Well, they sure taught those capitalists a lesson, huh?

– By Kyle Wingfield

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236 comments Add your comment

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
12:27 pm

Did you see how far off Rasmussen and Gallup were during the election ?

Its getting hard to take them seriously.

Linda

November 16th, 2012
12:27 pm

Kyle, Click on “a few times.” There seems to be a problem.

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
12:31 pm

“Pro-life lawmaker’s wife had abortions”

All you need to know about the true sincerity of pro-life pols is in this story. With pols, “this is a special exception” rules for them in the real world.

As for strike – Kyle, did it occur to you that this many people strikeing is a serious indication of just how bad wages and working conditions may be. Looking down your nose at these strikers from your ivory tower is not really a good thing to do.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
12:31 pm

Apparently not. Well, they sure taught those capitalists a lesson, huh?

Yes. I mean how dare workers organize and bargain for better wages and benefits. Its like they think this is America and they are free or something.

They should have just taken what the Hostess employer masters gave them and shut up about it.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

Michael

November 16th, 2012
12:33 pm

You and I agree on this one Kyle.

@@

November 16th, 2012
12:35 pm

I’ve never really followed the right-to-life’s views on restricted abortions. Don’t know if they allow for exceptions or not.

Anyhoo…in all fairness, the dem’s pursuit of abortions under ANY and ALL circumstances (for convenience sake) may have been the catalyst that set off the right-to-life group. When push comes to shove and all that stuff.

When Roe v Wade became law, who knew we, as a people, would accept late-term (partial birth) abortions for as long as we did.

Ding Dongs are dead and gone?

No need for abortions then.

schnirt

East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)

November 16th, 2012
12:39 pm

Someone posted on Jay’s blog (so it must be true right?) that Hostess gave several large raises & bonuses to execs while at the same time crying poverty. If this can be verified, I could see where the union would balk at offers of pay cuts. Anyone have knowledge of this? If true it is quite shameful behavior but good luck to those 18000 plus workers getting jobs with whoever buys the leftovers.

JDW

November 16th, 2012
12:40 pm

@Kyle…”In fact, my point about personhood being a political loser will,”

I believe you have in fact identified the real problem with the Republicans of today…lots of the positions they take from abortion, to immigration to taxes are simply political losers.

As for the Twinkies…sorry the golden goose was already dead. Crushed by mismanagement and changing tastes, remember Moon Pies and RC Cola? Looks like the unions decided the brands were to be sold and the jobs were gone anyway. My guess is they were right.

Road Scholar

November 16th, 2012
12:44 pm

How sure are you that Hostess s liquidating over the union demands? What are their recent sales numbers? What is the shelf life of a twinkie….in years or decades? Aren’t people changing their diets to reduce sugar/ reduce the likelihood of diabetes? Wonder bread- white bread is being dropped in favor of more wheat breads and fiber. Didn’t Hostess also make Snoballs….you could use the outside layer for bondo on your car!

Besides if you want a snack cake, buy Tastykakes (bought by Flowers Industries) which are finally being marketed her in Georgia. Previously they were only available from Pennsylvania to northern NC. YUM!!!!!

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:45 pm

Linda: It works for me.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:46 pm

Cheesy: There’s no “likely voter” screen with these kinds of questions, which means the polling is more science and less art.

Matz

November 16th, 2012
12:46 pm

This would be a perfect time for a growers/processors/distributors of healthy food to swoop in a grab some experienced employees for their expanding businesses. Who the heck is still eating Twinkies and Wonder Bread anyway? Only the soon-to-be extinct, I’d imagine.

GOAL for 2013 and beyond: Deny your local colon surgeon and oncologists the new yachts/vacation homes/$90K automobiles they’ve got their eyes on. Vegetables and whole grains are your friends.

You’re welcome.

jbgotcha

November 16th, 2012
12:47 pm

Is anyone surprised by a partisan hack like Wingfield writing a blog that reflects this? I’m not. Hack on, partisan, hack on…

southpaw

November 16th, 2012
12:47 pm

GM got bailed out. Why not Hostess too? Wait…I know! Michelle Obama forbade a bailout because Hostess doesn’t sell the right kinds of food!

No, that isn’t a swipe at the First Lady. She’s done nothing to deserve one. My intent is to show the foolishness of the government deciding “OK, we’ll help this business. No, we won’t help that one.” Picking winners and losers, as was said in the recent campaign.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:48 pm

carlosgvv: They were striking to keep the deal they had before. The company made it clear it would go out of business if that deal held up. The union called the company’s bluff, and everyone lost.

The quality of wages and working conditions can only be as good as the company’s ability to stay in business.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:50 pm

And Cheesy @ 12:31: Perhaps you’d like to explain why the company should have lost money so that those workers could get what they wanted. Or, better yet, how it was supposed to keep doing so.

Dan

November 16th, 2012
12:50 pm

In 2004 the unions agreed to cost reductions that saved Hostess $110 million. Hostess last August eliminated pension earnings, and now the company is wanting to cut wages by 8%. I understand that wage cut is a sliding scale, but only 3 years removed from a BK, what assurances do the unions have from the company that it would remain solvent by the time their wages were scheduled to be restored? The current leadership failed miserably to try and introduce healthier options in 2009. If you worked for a company whose vision was no longer working, and asked you to cut your pay without any structural change at the top, how would you respond?

Matz

November 16th, 2012
12:50 pm

I’ll bet the big pharm companies that make a fortune off our epidemic of obesity and diabetes are TICKED off. Good.

joe

November 16th, 2012
12:51 pm

Kinda funny how union supporters are reacting to this story. It’s like cutting off your nose (bargaining demands) to spite your face (there actual jobs). Most union workers are not highly educated, but you’d think someone would have told them this was coming. Sad thing is, there will be more of this and then add small businesses laying off employees to get under the 50 obamacare cap, you are looking at unemployment greater than 8% and rising. Once the holiday season jobs are over in January, unemployment will look pretty bad.

Rockerbabe

November 16th, 2012
12:52 pm

If Hostess is failing, it is because of the failings of management, not failings of the employees. Employees do the jobs they are given and often with little to no voice in that assignment. Management is responsible for the product line, its packaging, its advertising, it marketing, etc. If management screws up, its management’s fault, not the workers. Anyway, if Hostess cannot survive in our ever expanding junk food market, then maybe they need to get gone.

The workers in this union apparently do not trust management and that often comes after bad incidents with management over who only knows what. If union workers want to strike, they have to vote to strike; if union workers want to accept a contract, they have to vote to accept the contract. . .there is no union thugs here. Just worker exercising their rights to make decision and act on them. If the company folds, then so be it. The workers will obviously do not think much of managment and why should they? Hostess has n estimated revenue of 2 billion dollars yearly! And the employees have to take an 8% cut to stay employed? I wonder what cut the managment is taking.

A company gets the union it deserves.

A company gets the union it deserves. Obviously, the workers at Hostess feel they cannot trust management, or they might have taken them at their word. For those of you who do not know, strikes and contract agreements have to be voted on by the union membership to become effective. . .there is no “union thugs here”.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:52 pm

Road @ 12:44: Oh, I don’t think there’s any question Hostess faced problems in the market because its products have fallen out of favor. But that’s exactly why they were trying to renegotiate labor deals to reflect the diminished market for their products.

Linda

November 16th, 2012
12:53 pm

Kyle@12:45, still doesn’t work for me.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
12:54 pm

Cheesy: There’s no “likely voter” screen with these kinds of questions, which means the polling is more science and less art.

Is that they way you meant that ?

Either way they were way way off.

It kind of hurts their credibility does it not.

For example Nate Silver has now predicted 99 out 100 states right the last two elections.

( He missed Indiana in 2008 for Obama )

Think people might take him a little more seriously next time around ?

Ill bet they do.

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
12:56 pm

Kyle – 12:48

OR, company management is like the little kid who says, “if you don’t let me do what I want, I’ll take MY ball and go home”.

Rockerbabe

November 16th, 2012
12:56 pm

As far a abortion is concerned, the sad, but true incident in Ireland should give every woman pause. When women do not even merit the right of self survival over a dying fetus, something is very wrong.
I hope the GOP takes heed; my rights to by own agency and bodily autonomy are not up for negiotation in anyway shape or form.

I hope the dead woman’s family can get some comfort in that her death will bring about needed changes in Ireland’s thinking about pregnant women.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
12:57 pm

GM got bailed out. Why not Hostess too?

Because they dont employee near the same amount of people nor are they as critical to the US economy.

Apple to Oranges.

TBone

November 16th, 2012
12:57 pm

The important thing to note here is that this is part and parcel to the lies spewed by the current regime about some type of focus on job creation. These folks don’t have a clue about what it takes to develop a business and run it. What effect did excessive regulation have on profitability coupled with union inefficiencies. The only jobs created will be government jobs. How are we going to fund government? Who knows?

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:57 pm

Linda: I don’t know what to tell you. I just tried it in a different browser, one in which I wasn’t logged into my blogging software, and it still worked.

But if you want to know where it’s supposed to take you, just search my blog for “personhood,” and you’ll see the past posts I’m talking about.

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
12:58 pm

“Hostess Brands is laying off all it’s workers”

It’s all Obama’s fault!!!!

IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:59 pm

Cheesy @ 12:54: Yes, that’s the way I meant it. When you are trying to determine which likely voters will show up and vote, you are introducing art — your guesses about what the electorate will look like — into an exercise that’s otherwise more scientific.

You’re probably right about Silver.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:59 pm

carlosgvv: That might make sense if the company wasn’t going out of business. There’s no ball left to take home.

mike

November 16th, 2012
12:59 pm

Haven’t you folks learned enough from these polls lately. Maybe it might be more important for you men to let women decide what they want to do with their bodies. Nobody eats twinkies anymore. People have become more aware of their health. Lets get out of business and blame the union. Heck how about blaming it on Obamacare like they do for everything else.

southpaw

November 16th, 2012
1:00 pm

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
12:31 pm
“Pro-life lawmaker’s wife had abortions”

All you need to know about the true sincerity of pro-life pols is in this story. With pols, “this is a special exception” rules for them in the real world.
—————————————————————————
If this is the rule, not the exception, how did the story become news? Reporters don’t often write about normal, everyday events (except for human interest stories here and there). When was the last time you saw an article about somebody stopping at a stop sign or red light, or holding down a job, or (gasp!) not abusing children?

You may want to narrow your broad brush just a tad.

splavistic

November 16th, 2012
1:01 pm

Sorry, Kyle, but Hostess had PLENTY of problems before the strike. They’ve been in and out of bankruptcy, and are only using the labor strike as a ploy. I thought you would have done better research than this knee jerk piece of opinion.

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
1:01 pm

Rockerbabe – “My rights….are not up for negotiation”

If Republicans have their way, you will be TOLD what your rights are. And, if you don’t like it, your only alternative will be to move to another country.

You Don't Say

November 16th, 2012
1:02 pm

Kyle

Any product failings are squarely on the shoulders of Hostess management not adapting to market trends, etc.

With that said, if management had already lead by example and had taken pay & benefit cuts along the lines of what they were attempting to work out with the union then all I can say is that I hope all union and non-workers are able to find employment in a timely manner.

I have no problems with management getting paid the “big bucks” for their skill set and expertise, however one must lead by example in attempts to achieve long lasting relationships with union or non union work forces.

I have not looked into this particular issue so I can’t say what transpired with management or past union negotiations. Not all, but in most cases it is usually numerous variables that result in a company like Hostess to come to the conclusion they came to, regardless of how they spin it.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
1:03 pm

You’re probably right about Silver.

Just cut and pasted that into word document.

Blew up the font. Thinking about printing and framing.

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
1:03 pm

southpaw – 1:00

Reporters found about this almost by accident, or did you think this politician and his wife just volunteered it?

Ask any nurse at an abortion clinic about how many “special cases” they see every week.

southpaw

November 16th, 2012
1:04 pm

Cheesy Grits @12:57
Because they dont employee near the same amount of people nor are they as critical to the US economy.

Apple to Oranges.
——————————————-
OK. Then exactly how many workers does it take to merit a bailout? How do you measure “critical?”

Can’t wait to hear what would be “apples to apples.”

jconservative

November 16th, 2012
1:05 pm

To keep honesty at the forefront of the discussion, I am Pro-Life.

I agree with Kyle on the RTL and the mistakes they have been making for a generation. They seem to not realize that in the US women have a constitutional right to an abortion. No state laws will change that. No changes to state laws requiring “vaginal probes, waiting periods, etc will change that. Only the US Supreme Court or a constitutional amendment will change that. That is where the battle must be fought.

Today, as Kyle points out, a Pro-Choice president will make any necessary appointments to the SCOTUS for the next four years. I would guess Ginsburg will retire this spring and allow Obama to appoint a younger version who will be there for the next 30 years.

The lesson is as old as warfare. Always pick your battlefield with care.

jd

November 16th, 2012
1:08 pm

Here’s how the free market works — the producer offers a product at a price — the market then signals to the producer if the price is right by deciding to buy or not. So, the producer (unions) had product management wished to buy, but management signalled it was unwilling to pay the price the producer wanted. The producer decided it could not afford to sell at that price. So, no deal. The market worked perfectly.

BenDaho

November 16th, 2012
1:09 pm

They should have just taken what the Hostess employer masters gave them and shut up about it.??

Absolutely not. Theu should be able to dictate to the business owner how much profit that the owner can make, set their own work schedules, select premium health packages all at the business owners expense. And if the business owner is lucky enough to have money left over after paying business expenses, they should have control over how much the owner can take home as a salary. (tongue firmly in cheek)
They ought to be grateful to have employment in Obama’s great economy.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
1:09 pm

You Don’t Say @ 1:02: Of course management played a huge role in the company’s going through bankruptcy in the first place. I don’t think anyone’s disputing that. But it seems to me that, once faced with the reality that the company couldn’t pay them what it used to pay them and still stay in business, the union members made a self-defeating choice.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
1:11 pm

jd: Not really. The free market would have allowed management to buy the product (labor, in your example) from anyone wishing to provide it — not just the incumbent producer.

Aquagirl

November 16th, 2012
1:11 pm

How do you measure “critical?”

I’m pretty sure you can make a case that autos are more critical to your economy than twinkies….though some folks would disagree, lol.

Matz

November 16th, 2012
1:12 pm

Apples and oranges are actually food. Choose life: choose to eat foods that nourish — rather than destroy — your body.

Banderson

November 16th, 2012
1:12 pm

I thought the abortion topic was going to be an in depth discussion of family values, pro-lifer Republican Scott DesJarlais (R), TN, who had affairs with his patients and had his wife and girlfrend get abortions. Oh, well. Another day.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
1:13 pm

OK. Then exactly how many workers does it take to merit a bailout? How do you measure “critical?”

If you are as big as GM.

Hostess cupcakes. Not so much.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
1:13 pm

jconservative: The tragedy is that, perhaps in spite of themselves, the RTL folks had made headway in public opinion. Just not in the way they thought they had — one or no exceptions was far from the choice of a substantial part of the population. They might’ve had a chance with three exceptions — but not with a Supreme Court largely appointed by Obama, as this one may well turn out to be. They made a bad, bad bet with the lives they claim to be all about protecting.

And that, as I’ve written before, is unconscionable.

H.E. Pennypacker

November 16th, 2012
1:14 pm

Without more information on the Hostess negotiations, I struggle to see how anyone can use this as a political football, but the right is sure doing it everywhere you look.

All I know is that management has filed for Chapter 11 twice and still has been unable to right the ship. Perhaps it is reasonable to ask for yet another round of wage concessions, but what I don’t know is:

How much were management’s wages cut?
Were employees offered equity in exchange for concessions?
The Teamsters agreed to wage concessions, but the bakery union did not, what was behind their motivation?

It sure seems odd that the less than stellar management team is running around to shows like Today pointing the finger at one of their labor unions for liquidating a company that has been in a death spiral for some time.