Twinkies and abortion: Two from the ‘I hope you’re happy’ files

One from each side of the ideological spectrum. I’ll start with a smack upside the religious right’s collective head:

According to Rasmussen Reports, in a survey conducted after a presidential election in which abortion rights and the stupid statements of two GOP Senate candidates featured far too heavily, 54 percent of Americans describe themselves as “pro-choice” versus 38 percent who say they’re “pro-life.” This is in sharp contrast with Gallup’s finding back in May, in which half of respondents said they were “pro-life” versus 41 percent who were “pro-choice.” In fact, Gallup’s annual survey on the topic hasn’t found such a sharp pro-choice majority since 1995.

It will be interesting to see what Gallup finds on the question next May, after election-related passions have cooled. But to the degree the Rasmussen survey shows the consequences of changing what it means to be “pro-life,” I blame those right-to-life groups that have pushed politicians to oppose exceptions for rape and incest.

Senate candidates Todd Akin of Missouri and Richard Mourdock of Indiana probably wouldn’t have even been talking about abortion and rape together if not for this anti-exceptions push, a.k.a. the “personhood” movement. I’ve explained my thoughts on personhood a few times before, and this was yet another election that bore out my point. In fact, my point about personhood being a political loser will, unfortunately, be truer than ever if one of the conservative Supreme Court justices or court swing vote Anthony Kennedy ends up leaving the bench during the next four years and President Obama gets to nominate his replacement. The question will truly be settled for another generation, in large part because the RTL groups tried to move the goal posts before they ever made much of a kick.

So, to the degree Akin and Mourdock hurt Mitt Romney’s candidacy — and I think Romney’s showing with women, particularly single women, and younger voters suggests they probably did — the hard-line right-to-lifers have really bitten themselves. Way to go.

Now for the stubborn boneheadedness from the other side, via the AP:

The maker of the iconic U.S. snack Twinkies said Friday it is going out of business and laying off all of its 18,500 workers after a national strike crippled its operations. …

Hostess Brands had warned employees that it would file a motion in U.S. Bankruptcy Court to unwind its business and sell assets if plant operations didn’t return to normal levels by Thursday evening.

Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden, er, snacks.

Insisting on your position as a union is tricky enough in normal times. When unemployment is around 8 percent and a bankruptcy judge has authorized the company to rework some of its labor deals, you’d think the union would be wise enough to realize things could end this way.

Apparently not. Well, they sure taught those capitalists a lesson, huh?

– By Kyle Wingfield

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236 comments Add your comment

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
12:27 pm

Did you see how far off Rasmussen and Gallup were during the election ?

Its getting hard to take them seriously.

Linda

November 16th, 2012
12:27 pm

Kyle, Click on “a few times.” There seems to be a problem.

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
12:31 pm

“Pro-life lawmaker’s wife had abortions”

All you need to know about the true sincerity of pro-life pols is in this story. With pols, “this is a special exception” rules for them in the real world.

As for strike – Kyle, did it occur to you that this many people strikeing is a serious indication of just how bad wages and working conditions may be. Looking down your nose at these strikers from your ivory tower is not really a good thing to do.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
12:31 pm

Apparently not. Well, they sure taught those capitalists a lesson, huh?

Yes. I mean how dare workers organize and bargain for better wages and benefits. Its like they think this is America and they are free or something.

They should have just taken what the Hostess employer masters gave them and shut up about it.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

Michael

November 16th, 2012
12:33 pm

You and I agree on this one Kyle.

@@

November 16th, 2012
12:35 pm

I’ve never really followed the right-to-life’s views on restricted abortions. Don’t know if they allow for exceptions or not.

Anyhoo…in all fairness, the dem’s pursuit of abortions under ANY and ALL circumstances (for convenience sake) may have been the catalyst that set off the right-to-life group. When push comes to shove and all that stuff.

When Roe v Wade became law, who knew we, as a people, would accept late-term (partial birth) abortions for as long as we did.

Ding Dongs are dead and gone?

No need for abortions then.

schnirt

East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)

November 16th, 2012
12:39 pm

Someone posted on Jay’s blog (so it must be true right?) that Hostess gave several large raises & bonuses to execs while at the same time crying poverty. If this can be verified, I could see where the union would balk at offers of pay cuts. Anyone have knowledge of this? If true it is quite shameful behavior but good luck to those 18000 plus workers getting jobs with whoever buys the leftovers.

JDW

November 16th, 2012
12:40 pm

@Kyle…”In fact, my point about personhood being a political loser will,”

I believe you have in fact identified the real problem with the Republicans of today…lots of the positions they take from abortion, to immigration to taxes are simply political losers.

As for the Twinkies…sorry the golden goose was already dead. Crushed by mismanagement and changing tastes, remember Moon Pies and RC Cola? Looks like the unions decided the brands were to be sold and the jobs were gone anyway. My guess is they were right.

Road Scholar

November 16th, 2012
12:44 pm

How sure are you that Hostess s liquidating over the union demands? What are their recent sales numbers? What is the shelf life of a twinkie….in years or decades? Aren’t people changing their diets to reduce sugar/ reduce the likelihood of diabetes? Wonder bread- white bread is being dropped in favor of more wheat breads and fiber. Didn’t Hostess also make Snoballs….you could use the outside layer for bondo on your car!

Besides if you want a snack cake, buy Tastykakes (bought by Flowers Industries) which are finally being marketed her in Georgia. Previously they were only available from Pennsylvania to northern NC. YUM!!!!!

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:45 pm

Linda: It works for me.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:46 pm

Cheesy: There’s no “likely voter” screen with these kinds of questions, which means the polling is more science and less art.

Matz

November 16th, 2012
12:46 pm

This would be a perfect time for a growers/processors/distributors of healthy food to swoop in a grab some experienced employees for their expanding businesses. Who the heck is still eating Twinkies and Wonder Bread anyway? Only the soon-to-be extinct, I’d imagine.

GOAL for 2013 and beyond: Deny your local colon surgeon and oncologists the new yachts/vacation homes/$90K automobiles they’ve got their eyes on. Vegetables and whole grains are your friends.

You’re welcome.

jbgotcha

November 16th, 2012
12:47 pm

Is anyone surprised by a partisan hack like Wingfield writing a blog that reflects this? I’m not. Hack on, partisan, hack on…

southpaw

November 16th, 2012
12:47 pm

GM got bailed out. Why not Hostess too? Wait…I know! Michelle Obama forbade a bailout because Hostess doesn’t sell the right kinds of food!

No, that isn’t a swipe at the First Lady. She’s done nothing to deserve one. My intent is to show the foolishness of the government deciding “OK, we’ll help this business. No, we won’t help that one.” Picking winners and losers, as was said in the recent campaign.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:48 pm

carlosgvv: They were striking to keep the deal they had before. The company made it clear it would go out of business if that deal held up. The union called the company’s bluff, and everyone lost.

The quality of wages and working conditions can only be as good as the company’s ability to stay in business.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:50 pm

And Cheesy @ 12:31: Perhaps you’d like to explain why the company should have lost money so that those workers could get what they wanted. Or, better yet, how it was supposed to keep doing so.

Dan

November 16th, 2012
12:50 pm

In 2004 the unions agreed to cost reductions that saved Hostess $110 million. Hostess last August eliminated pension earnings, and now the company is wanting to cut wages by 8%. I understand that wage cut is a sliding scale, but only 3 years removed from a BK, what assurances do the unions have from the company that it would remain solvent by the time their wages were scheduled to be restored? The current leadership failed miserably to try and introduce healthier options in 2009. If you worked for a company whose vision was no longer working, and asked you to cut your pay without any structural change at the top, how would you respond?

Matz

November 16th, 2012
12:50 pm

I’ll bet the big pharm companies that make a fortune off our epidemic of obesity and diabetes are TICKED off. Good.

joe

November 16th, 2012
12:51 pm

Kinda funny how union supporters are reacting to this story. It’s like cutting off your nose (bargaining demands) to spite your face (there actual jobs). Most union workers are not highly educated, but you’d think someone would have told them this was coming. Sad thing is, there will be more of this and then add small businesses laying off employees to get under the 50 obamacare cap, you are looking at unemployment greater than 8% and rising. Once the holiday season jobs are over in January, unemployment will look pretty bad.

Rockerbabe

November 16th, 2012
12:52 pm

If Hostess is failing, it is because of the failings of management, not failings of the employees. Employees do the jobs they are given and often with little to no voice in that assignment. Management is responsible for the product line, its packaging, its advertising, it marketing, etc. If management screws up, its management’s fault, not the workers. Anyway, if Hostess cannot survive in our ever expanding junk food market, then maybe they need to get gone.

The workers in this union apparently do not trust management and that often comes after bad incidents with management over who only knows what. If union workers want to strike, they have to vote to strike; if union workers want to accept a contract, they have to vote to accept the contract. . .there is no union thugs here. Just worker exercising their rights to make decision and act on them. If the company folds, then so be it. The workers will obviously do not think much of managment and why should they? Hostess has n estimated revenue of 2 billion dollars yearly! And the employees have to take an 8% cut to stay employed? I wonder what cut the managment is taking.

A company gets the union it deserves.

A company gets the union it deserves. Obviously, the workers at Hostess feel they cannot trust management, or they might have taken them at their word. For those of you who do not know, strikes and contract agreements have to be voted on by the union membership to become effective. . .there is no “union thugs here”.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:52 pm

Road @ 12:44: Oh, I don’t think there’s any question Hostess faced problems in the market because its products have fallen out of favor. But that’s exactly why they were trying to renegotiate labor deals to reflect the diminished market for their products.

Linda

November 16th, 2012
12:53 pm

Kyle@12:45, still doesn’t work for me.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
12:54 pm

Cheesy: There’s no “likely voter” screen with these kinds of questions, which means the polling is more science and less art.

Is that they way you meant that ?

Either way they were way way off.

It kind of hurts their credibility does it not.

For example Nate Silver has now predicted 99 out 100 states right the last two elections.

( He missed Indiana in 2008 for Obama )

Think people might take him a little more seriously next time around ?

Ill bet they do.

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
12:56 pm

Kyle – 12:48

OR, company management is like the little kid who says, “if you don’t let me do what I want, I’ll take MY ball and go home”.

Rockerbabe

November 16th, 2012
12:56 pm

As far a abortion is concerned, the sad, but true incident in Ireland should give every woman pause. When women do not even merit the right of self survival over a dying fetus, something is very wrong.
I hope the GOP takes heed; my rights to by own agency and bodily autonomy are not up for negiotation in anyway shape or form.

I hope the dead woman’s family can get some comfort in that her death will bring about needed changes in Ireland’s thinking about pregnant women.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
12:57 pm

GM got bailed out. Why not Hostess too?

Because they dont employee near the same amount of people nor are they as critical to the US economy.

Apple to Oranges.

TBone

November 16th, 2012
12:57 pm

The important thing to note here is that this is part and parcel to the lies spewed by the current regime about some type of focus on job creation. These folks don’t have a clue about what it takes to develop a business and run it. What effect did excessive regulation have on profitability coupled with union inefficiencies. The only jobs created will be government jobs. How are we going to fund government? Who knows?

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:57 pm

Linda: I don’t know what to tell you. I just tried it in a different browser, one in which I wasn’t logged into my blogging software, and it still worked.

But if you want to know where it’s supposed to take you, just search my blog for “personhood,” and you’ll see the past posts I’m talking about.

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
12:58 pm

“Hostess Brands is laying off all it’s workers”

It’s all Obama’s fault!!!!

IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:59 pm

Cheesy @ 12:54: Yes, that’s the way I meant it. When you are trying to determine which likely voters will show up and vote, you are introducing art — your guesses about what the electorate will look like — into an exercise that’s otherwise more scientific.

You’re probably right about Silver.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
12:59 pm

carlosgvv: That might make sense if the company wasn’t going out of business. There’s no ball left to take home.

mike

November 16th, 2012
12:59 pm

Haven’t you folks learned enough from these polls lately. Maybe it might be more important for you men to let women decide what they want to do with their bodies. Nobody eats twinkies anymore. People have become more aware of their health. Lets get out of business and blame the union. Heck how about blaming it on Obamacare like they do for everything else.

southpaw

November 16th, 2012
1:00 pm

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
12:31 pm
“Pro-life lawmaker’s wife had abortions”

All you need to know about the true sincerity of pro-life pols is in this story. With pols, “this is a special exception” rules for them in the real world.
—————————————————————————
If this is the rule, not the exception, how did the story become news? Reporters don’t often write about normal, everyday events (except for human interest stories here and there). When was the last time you saw an article about somebody stopping at a stop sign or red light, or holding down a job, or (gasp!) not abusing children?

You may want to narrow your broad brush just a tad.

splavistic

November 16th, 2012
1:01 pm

Sorry, Kyle, but Hostess had PLENTY of problems before the strike. They’ve been in and out of bankruptcy, and are only using the labor strike as a ploy. I thought you would have done better research than this knee jerk piece of opinion.

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
1:01 pm

Rockerbabe – “My rights….are not up for negotiation”

If Republicans have their way, you will be TOLD what your rights are. And, if you don’t like it, your only alternative will be to move to another country.

You Don't Say

November 16th, 2012
1:02 pm

Kyle

Any product failings are squarely on the shoulders of Hostess management not adapting to market trends, etc.

With that said, if management had already lead by example and had taken pay & benefit cuts along the lines of what they were attempting to work out with the union then all I can say is that I hope all union and non-workers are able to find employment in a timely manner.

I have no problems with management getting paid the “big bucks” for their skill set and expertise, however one must lead by example in attempts to achieve long lasting relationships with union or non union work forces.

I have not looked into this particular issue so I can’t say what transpired with management or past union negotiations. Not all, but in most cases it is usually numerous variables that result in a company like Hostess to come to the conclusion they came to, regardless of how they spin it.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
1:03 pm

You’re probably right about Silver.

Just cut and pasted that into word document.

Blew up the font. Thinking about printing and framing.

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
1:03 pm

southpaw – 1:00

Reporters found about this almost by accident, or did you think this politician and his wife just volunteered it?

Ask any nurse at an abortion clinic about how many “special cases” they see every week.

southpaw

November 16th, 2012
1:04 pm

Cheesy Grits @12:57
Because they dont employee near the same amount of people nor are they as critical to the US economy.

Apple to Oranges.
——————————————-
OK. Then exactly how many workers does it take to merit a bailout? How do you measure “critical?”

Can’t wait to hear what would be “apples to apples.”

jconservative

November 16th, 2012
1:05 pm

To keep honesty at the forefront of the discussion, I am Pro-Life.

I agree with Kyle on the RTL and the mistakes they have been making for a generation. They seem to not realize that in the US women have a constitutional right to an abortion. No state laws will change that. No changes to state laws requiring “vaginal probes, waiting periods, etc will change that. Only the US Supreme Court or a constitutional amendment will change that. That is where the battle must be fought.

Today, as Kyle points out, a Pro-Choice president will make any necessary appointments to the SCOTUS for the next four years. I would guess Ginsburg will retire this spring and allow Obama to appoint a younger version who will be there for the next 30 years.

The lesson is as old as warfare. Always pick your battlefield with care.

jd

November 16th, 2012
1:08 pm

Here’s how the free market works — the producer offers a product at a price — the market then signals to the producer if the price is right by deciding to buy or not. So, the producer (unions) had product management wished to buy, but management signalled it was unwilling to pay the price the producer wanted. The producer decided it could not afford to sell at that price. So, no deal. The market worked perfectly.

BenDaho

November 16th, 2012
1:09 pm

They should have just taken what the Hostess employer masters gave them and shut up about it.??

Absolutely not. Theu should be able to dictate to the business owner how much profit that the owner can make, set their own work schedules, select premium health packages all at the business owners expense. And if the business owner is lucky enough to have money left over after paying business expenses, they should have control over how much the owner can take home as a salary. (tongue firmly in cheek)
They ought to be grateful to have employment in Obama’s great economy.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
1:09 pm

You Don’t Say @ 1:02: Of course management played a huge role in the company’s going through bankruptcy in the first place. I don’t think anyone’s disputing that. But it seems to me that, once faced with the reality that the company couldn’t pay them what it used to pay them and still stay in business, the union members made a self-defeating choice.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
1:11 pm

jd: Not really. The free market would have allowed management to buy the product (labor, in your example) from anyone wishing to provide it — not just the incumbent producer.

Aquagirl

November 16th, 2012
1:11 pm

How do you measure “critical?”

I’m pretty sure you can make a case that autos are more critical to your economy than twinkies….though some folks would disagree, lol.

Matz

November 16th, 2012
1:12 pm

Apples and oranges are actually food. Choose life: choose to eat foods that nourish — rather than destroy — your body.

Banderson

November 16th, 2012
1:12 pm

I thought the abortion topic was going to be an in depth discussion of family values, pro-lifer Republican Scott DesJarlais (R), TN, who had affairs with his patients and had his wife and girlfrend get abortions. Oh, well. Another day.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
1:13 pm

OK. Then exactly how many workers does it take to merit a bailout? How do you measure “critical?”

If you are as big as GM.

Hostess cupcakes. Not so much.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
1:13 pm

jconservative: The tragedy is that, perhaps in spite of themselves, the RTL folks had made headway in public opinion. Just not in the way they thought they had — one or no exceptions was far from the choice of a substantial part of the population. They might’ve had a chance with three exceptions — but not with a Supreme Court largely appointed by Obama, as this one may well turn out to be. They made a bad, bad bet with the lives they claim to be all about protecting.

And that, as I’ve written before, is unconscionable.

H.E. Pennypacker

November 16th, 2012
1:14 pm

Without more information on the Hostess negotiations, I struggle to see how anyone can use this as a political football, but the right is sure doing it everywhere you look.

All I know is that management has filed for Chapter 11 twice and still has been unable to right the ship. Perhaps it is reasonable to ask for yet another round of wage concessions, but what I don’t know is:

How much were management’s wages cut?
Were employees offered equity in exchange for concessions?
The Teamsters agreed to wage concessions, but the bakery union did not, what was behind their motivation?

It sure seems odd that the less than stellar management team is running around to shows like Today pointing the finger at one of their labor unions for liquidating a company that has been in a death spiral for some time.

bookman parrot

November 16th, 2012
1:14 pm

as long as i have the “right” to kill off babies in the womb. i’m good. not. i just can’t understand why people kill their own flesh and blood

Skip

November 16th, 2012
1:15 pm

Kyle, how many twinkies and wonder bread slices do your kids eat? It’s you that put them out of business.

southpaw

November 16th, 2012
1:16 pm

carlosgvv
November 16th, 2012
1:03 pm
“Reporters found about this almost by accident”???? Read the article a little more closely. Here’s an excerpt you may find interesting.
“Court documents from the 2001 divorce trial were released by the state Democratic Party, which had hoped to make them public before the Nov. 6 election.” Sounds pretty deliberate to me.

Banderson

November 16th, 2012
1:16 pm

Kyle, why doesn’t Hostess still have the right to fire all the union workers and simply hire non-union workers. Is it a) because of some legal agreement they may have entered into prohibiting that, b) they can’t find non-union workers to work for the wages they want to pay or c) other? If a), then management should not have signed a contract they could not keep and if b), then it’s just time for them to go out of business. Someone else will make our snack food. If c), I’d like to hear the reason.

You Don't Say

November 16th, 2012
1:17 pm

bookman parrot

Best thing for you would be not to have an abortion. I am sure you stick to your guns on this issue and have not had one. That is great..

@@

November 16th, 2012
1:17 pm

Did the Teamster’s try to talk some sense into the other unions or is that verboten among unions? They knew Hostess would have to shutdown if the strike went into overtime.

Ken Hall, the treasurer and general secretary for Hostess’s largest union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, said the timing of the closure “could not be worse as we enter the holiday season.”

“Unfortunately, the company’s operating and financial problems were so severe that it required steep concessions from a variety of stakeholders but not all stakeholders were willing to be constructive,” Mr. Hall said in a statement.

The Teamsters have always been a pretty hard-core union. There’s reasonable and then there’s boneheaded. I’d say the Teamsters, in this instance, were reasonable.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
1:17 pm

Cheesy: So you’re only in favor of bailing out Big Business? Interesting…

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 16th, 2012
1:20 pm

that’s exactly why they were trying to renegotiate labor deals to reflect the diminished market for their products.

“We, as your managers, are too incompetent to figure out how to sell this swill so you, as our employees, are gonna have to bite it. We’ve already taken your pensions away; now we need 8% of your base pay too.”

yuzeyurbrane

November 16th, 2012
1:21 pm

re Twinkies, you should research it more. The other villains were hedge fund vulture capitalists who saw they could walk off with more money by selling the parts of the company rather than saving it. One of the sellable parts is Twinkies. Hopefully, many of the workers will remain employed making Twinkies, a national treasure, albeit with another owner.

southpaw

November 16th, 2012
1:22 pm

If you are as big as GM.
Hostess cupcakes. Not so much
————————————————
Which is how many workers? If GM employed 100 fewer workers than the “as big” you mentioned, would they still be good for a bailout? How did you measure “critical?”

BenDaho

November 16th, 2012
1:24 pm

East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)

November 16th, 2012
12:39 pm
Someone posted on Jay’s blog (so it must be true right?) that Hostess gave several large raises & bonuses to execs while at the same time crying poverty.

They stole the play from Solyndra’s play book!

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
1:29 pm

southpaw

Reporters were not looking for this. They found it only because someone released it to the public.

My main premise still stands – namely that this is not something participants would knowingly make public. So, for every case like this we hear about, how many more will we never know about?

Verbal Kint

November 16th, 2012
1:29 pm

I suppose the 18,500 uptick in jobless claims next week will be blamed on…..Sandy.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
1:29 pm

yuze @ 1:21: “Hopefully, many of the workers will remain employed making Twinkies, a national treasure, albeit with another owner.”

And, probably, making less money to do it.

James

November 16th, 2012
1:30 pm

Twinkies employees had a choice between a 8% pay cut or a 100% pay cut. Union mentality.

Banderson

November 16th, 2012
1:30 pm

Has Hostess asked for a bailout or is this some sort of circle jerk thing going on?

Banderson

November 16th, 2012
1:31 pm

James – Twinkies employees had a choice between a 8% pay cut or a 100% pay cut. Union mentality.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Give me liberty or give me death. Union mentality.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
1:41 pm

Has Hostess asked for a bailout or is this some sort of circle jerk thing going on?

The latter.

@@

November 16th, 2012
1:41 pm

jconservative @ 1:05:

Excellent post!

Timing and circumstance makes all the difference. Proceed with caution, not being able to predict either.

=====================

On another note. I don’t know how women can argue equal rights when fathers of the unborn are being denied their parental rights.

Doesn’t make sense to me.

Oh the horror

November 16th, 2012
1:44 pm

On another note. I don’t know how women can argue equal rights when fathers of the unborn are being denied their parental rights.

Doesn’t make sense to me.

_____________________________________

As soon as a man has the ability to get pregnant and have a baby, you will have a great point.

Let us know when that happens.

Thanks

Peace

November 16th, 2012
1:48 pm

Carlos @ 12:31–”As for strike – Kyle, did it occur to you that this many people strikeing is a serious indication of just how bad wages and working conditions may be. Looking down your nose at these strikers from your ivory tower is not really a good thing to do.”

When looking down one’s nose at UNEMPLOYED strikers, the view isn’t any better.

Centrist

November 16th, 2012
1:49 pm

The abortion issue is a low priority for many voters, and as such they tend to be in the middle on the issue – that’s why the instant polls swing back and forth. Only when there are left and right wing dogmatic statements (both sides do it) recoil reactions ensue.

The Hostess union issue may not be as black and white as it appears. When companies fail (Hostess has increased competition and due to better healthy eating habits, sales are down) there comes a point where labor is willing to go somewhere else rather than work for dwindling compensation packages. Management is willing to hang on (without such dwindling compensation packages) as long as possible. Looks like that point has been reached – the bakers must feel they have better options elsewhere rather than take another cut in compensation. I recall it was the mechanics at Eastern Airlines that finally balked and forced the inevitable liquidation.

JDW

November 16th, 2012
1:49 pm

@Kyle…”The quality of wages and working conditions can only be as good as the company’s ability to stay in business.”

When the workers would rather not work than accept them…why you go out of business. Just as you should.

southpaw

November 16th, 2012
1:49 pm

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
1:29 pm

“Someone”=Democratic Party, according to the article.
“So, for every case like this we hear about, how many more will we never know about?”
I get your idea, but you’re starting to see hypocrites in the same way that some of my fellow conservatives have seen socialists recently. Somehow, I don’t think Kamchak will give his usual “BOO!” to this, though.

@@

November 16th, 2012
1:51 pm

Oh the horror:

Nine months does NOT constitute a disability.

If the sex was consensual and no complications exist within the pregnancy, the father is entitled. He can sign on the dotted line to accept ALL responsibility…emotional AND financial.

My opinion, to which I am entitled!!!!!

Live with it!!!!!!!!!!

Oh the horror

November 16th, 2012
1:54 pm

“Nine months does NOT constitute a disability”

That is your straw man, I didn’t mention or imply that in any way. But nice try.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion, but the law is still the law. “LIVE WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

And make sure you let us know when a man can get pregnant.

:-)

curious

November 16th, 2012
1:54 pm

Hostess management is relieved they have someone to blame for the shutdown.

The company was going down anyway, but management will say it was due to the strike.

I predict most all of those workers will have jobs making more before this is over.

Alter Ego

November 16th, 2012
1:56 pm

Also interesting that Tasty Foods, aka TastyKake, based in union-stronghold Philadelphia, was purchased by Flowers in a similar situation. Must have been attributable to poor/greedy management there as well.

There’s no doubt manufacturers who want to survive in this country will continue to look towards right-to-work states…Unless, of course, the President’s union buddies can get that nasty little item removed from the Taft-Hartley act.

skipper

November 16th, 2012
1:56 pm

Mourdock and Akin are the types that scare people.They are on the lunatic fringe. They say stupid stuff, and cannot retract it, although they try to (ahem) “clarify” it in the news. Young folks (and some older ones, too) get scared off by this zealotry. I am an independent that leans conservative. However, the Republican Party (some, not all, but some) has gotten SO far right that its a little off track. Granted, the Dems are WAY too far left now. Perhaps the zealotry (if I may) of both sides needs tempering by a third party known ad the “Common-Sense” party. Not one of those nutty Nader/Green, etc. groups…..I mean a real group that infuses walking around-sense into its paltform. Each of the present two are fast getting away from that dynamic. The prez won again ‘coz SOME folks just thought this go- ’round the Repubs were crazier….it may change next time when there definitely will be a new prez…….

skipper

November 16th, 2012
1:59 pm

As far as Hostess goes, the unions are by and large usless. They came in YEARS ago as a legitimate voice for the downtrodden, abused worker. Now, they want it so the employees work less, get paid more, have 364 vacation days a year, and the sorriest rascal in the country cannot be fired w/o an act of Congress. This, coupled with lifetime retirement benefits that are totally unsustainable! Unions are now the “t*t” on the boar-hog…..useless!

clem

November 16th, 2012
2:00 pm

mitt must have been advising twinkie owners

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
2:04 pm

Live with it!!!!!!!!!!

We already do !!!!!!!

BTW I see nobody took me up on my offer to drive them to Canada.

Offer still stands guys.

Anybody up for a road trip? I will provide all gas and tolls and provide basic refreshments.

All you need is you, your Sean Hannity action figure, and your passport.

Linda

November 16th, 2012
2:04 pm

Easter & traffic jams will never be the same.

Our son believed in the Easter Bunny for an extra few years because he knew absolutely for sure that Mom would never, ever buy the junk food that the Bunny brought that one day per year.

What else can you buy, throw in your glove compartment for a year, then pull out during a traffic jam & find it just as wickedly delicious as it would have been the day you bought it? (I heard the recipe fell out of a UFO.)

National tragedy.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 16th, 2012
2:06 pm

If there’s still a market for Twinkies, some capitalist will make them in Mexico and avoid the union thug harassment altogether.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
2:10 pm

If there’s still a market for Twinkies, some capitalist will make them in Mexico and avoid the union thug harassment altogether.

Probably Mitt Romney

But id bet he would do it in China.

They have even cheaper labor.

He’ll make a fortune

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 16th, 2012
2:10 pm

As to the shelf life of Twinkies, I’ve never found out what that is. They don’t last more than a few days on my shelves before they’re eaten. :D

I’m sad for the brand, but happy in the way this went down. I suspect you’ll see a lot more of this in the coming months and years as we slide toward the Obama recession. Maybe these idiot union members will think twice next time before they take a stand they cannot win.

On abortion, I’ve written extensively and argued against my conservative friends on here regarding this issue. It’s the mother’s choice and only the mother’s choice, and she should be free to have an abortion as long as she doesn’t expect my tax dollars to pay for it.

@@

November 16th, 2012
2:15 pm

That is your straw man, I didn’t mention or imply that in any way. But nice try.

No, you didn’t. But, neither, did you stop to consider what it is you’re supporting.

Essentially, because of a man’s physical disability to become pregnant, you support discrimination. We’ll just call it discrimination against the disabled.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
2:17 pm

Maybe these idiot union members will think twice next time before they take a stand they cannot win

As I said earlier. Workers should take whatever pay they are given and just shut up about it.

How dare the ask for better wages ?

Oh the horror

November 16th, 2012
2:17 pm

@@

And you have your right to your spin. Take it up with the State, Federal and Supreme Courts.

And let us know when anything changes.

Until that time, “LIVE WITH IT”

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 16th, 2012
2:19 pm

Essentially, because of a man’s physical disability to become pregnant, you support discrimination. We’ll just call it discrimination against the disabled.

LOL. Wow.

What a load.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 16th, 2012
2:22 pm

“How dare the ask for better wages ?”

They have every right to ask.

Management has ZERO obligation to give them what they ask for.

Because, you know, it’s management that provides the jobs.

If you want to ask – ask. When it turns into a demand – think twice.

Alter Ego

November 16th, 2012
2:22 pm

My health insurance doubles in premium cost for next year.. But on the bright side, I do get *free* contraception for the extra $200 per month. Wish I was still single :)

bookman parrot

November 16th, 2012
2:23 pm

To Oh the horror,
Until then, then men should not be mandated to be financially responsible or any type responsible from anybody, since they have no say to your rights. Bet you wouldn’t live with that though.

@@

November 16th, 2012
2:24 pm

Horror:

I accept Roe v Wade as settled law. Doesn’t negate the discrimination that exists within.

My solution? I don’t listen to women who argue for equal rights when it’s evident they don’t really believe in the basic principle.

curious

November 16th, 2012
2:25 pm

Hope management have jobs lined up. Maybe stockholders will be happy also.

@@

November 16th, 2012
2:26 pm

Is it too soon to go off topic, Kyle?

Oh the horror

November 16th, 2012
2:27 pm

@@

And that is certainly your prerogative. Thanks for the exchange.

@@

November 16th, 2012
2:29 pm

Heck! If you support abortion without taking into consideration fathers’ rights, I can’t support anyone’s argument for equal rights.

Oh the horror

November 16th, 2012
2:30 pm

bookman parrot

Take it up with the courts. And until that changes, stick to your guns and do not have any abortions and maybe adopt a few kids as well.

Keep up the great work.

JF McNamara

November 16th, 2012
2:34 pm

1. The full story on the Twinkies said that the Teamsters union was not supportive of the Baker’s strike.
2. Democrats didn’t call for the strike. The people in the Union did. To blame the Democrats for the ignorance of a few bakers is like calling all Republicans racist.

Puck

November 16th, 2012
2:36 pm

Of course, the fact that Hostess was over leveraged as a result of going private had nothing at all to do with their going back into Chapter 11.

Buzz Belle

November 16th, 2012
2:37 pm

The extreme comments on abortion was just one of many comments made by republicans that were more extreme than the voters agreed with.
As far as Twinkies, a couple of things. One union agreed to 8% pay decrease and a reduction of benefits in exchange for a 4% increase in one year and 1% increase the year after. The bakers union rejected that and it sounds as though that is where it fell apart. If an agreement was made to reduce wages and benefits to help the company by one union, I can’t blame all unions. As I recall, auto workers also took huge hits in wage and benefits, agreed upon by the unions and corporation. I guess my point is, don’t paint all unions as not willing to give an inch. Unions serve a good purpose, standing up for the middle guy. In this case, one union might have dealt the blow. But, people weren’t really buying Twinkies anymore were they?

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 16th, 2012
2:38 pm

Your argument might hold some water, JF McNamara, if unions weren’t solidly behind the Democrat party.

If it weren’t for the support of Democrats, unions would have disappeared long ago as a viable option.

Don't Tread

November 16th, 2012
2:40 pm

Guess the Hostess union people never heard of Eastern Airlines, which reminds me of the saying “those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”. While I’m not a fan of Twinkies, the cinnamon buns were pretty good. Hopefully they will find a buyer for the brand name and the secret recipes that go with it.

curious

November 16th, 2012
2:42 pm

I’ve never belonged to a union, but I do believe unions are a big reason this country has a middle class.

JDW

November 16th, 2012
2:44 pm

@Tiberius…”Management has ZERO obligation to give them what they ask for”

Of course it follows that the workers then have ZERO obligation to work, which they exercised…bye bye Hostess…of course you do realize they were going to sell the brands and shaft the workers in thier own sweet time don’t you….thought not…it’s the Private Equity Way!@Tiberius…”Management has ZERO obligation to give them what they ask for”

Of course it follows that the workers then have ZERO obligation to work, which they exercised…bye bye Hostess…of course you do realize they were going to sell the brands and shaft the workers in their own sweet time don’t you….thought not…

Black Label

November 16th, 2012
2:49 pm

There will be reasons and excuses over the next few weeks for what went down at Hostess. My take is that over the years there probably was a combination of bad management who didn’t correctly gauge the market as well as unions who didn’t work well with management. Everyone has to learn to give and take: execs and unions alike.

Interesting read below, however there are certainly other sources with other takes on the issue.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49853653

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 16th, 2012
2:50 pm

“of course you do realize they were going to sell the brands and shaft the workers in thier own sweet time don’t you….thought not…it’s the Private Equity Way!”

Actually, I DID know that, which is just another indication of how consistently wrong you are, JDW.

The difference is – I don’t care what management wanted to do. They’re management and THEY get to set the rules, NOT the workers.

jconservative

November 16th, 2012
2:50 pm

Kyle Wingfield @ 1:13 pm

Completely agree.

As Archbishop Gregory once put it, we have a lot of folks “tilting at windmills” ala Don Quixote.

Linda

November 16th, 2012
2:50 pm

The Hostess story is the Wizard of Oz Part II. The witch was not dead & killed Ding Dong, along with the jobs of 18,000 Twinkies workers.

Centrist

November 16th, 2012
2:53 pm

@ Don’t Tread – Have you ever heard of the expression “The straw that broke the camel’s back”? When companies fail, there is always that final straw – and it often gets blamed (usually in an attempt to ignore the rest of the load).

Dusty

November 16th, 2012
2:53 pm

Kyle,

No, I am not happy. You are supposed to be on the sane side, not give ammuniotion to the errr… saneless. You are playing “nice’ and fair and equal again with all sides. . That’s nice but you are working with many of the ” all or nothing” crowd who have only one vision and they are not consevatives. For example, they beseiged Romney without playing nice, fair, or equal.

Fight fire with fire or dabble with diplomacy? You obviously did not choose fire.

OK, I’ll go get some excitement from a nice bowl of oatmeal or something. Anybody got a Twinkie?

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 16th, 2012
2:56 pm

The stockholders will keep whatever capital the union thugs didn’t destroy and invest elsewhere. The union thugs will trudge down to the unemployment office, having been sold down the river by their union leaders.

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
3:01 pm

Tiberius – 2:50

Big Business moguls and their Republican toadies just LOVE people with
elitest attitudes like yours.

Child, Please

November 16th, 2012
3:02 pm

More than likely the Hostess workers ate too much of the product and got fat and dumb at the same time. They thought they would flext their muscle and 12-13k of their co-workers lost jobs as a result. Sure they have lots of friends now.
Would be nice if the company fills out the separation notices to say that those employees quit vs. being terminated and would not be eligible for unemployment (the strikers should not be, the rest of the employees should be)

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 16th, 2012
3:03 pm

“Big Business moguls and their Republican toadies just LOVE people with
elitest attitudes like yours.”

Define “elitist”, carlos. You haven’t a clue, but try anyway.

iggy

November 16th, 2012
3:04 pm

“Fleas the size of rats sucked rats the size of cats….”

curious

November 16th, 2012
3:06 pm

What’s the latest layoff count?

cc

November 16th, 2012
3:06 pm

Re Hostess

Maybe I missed this in my reading, but I did see several references to the management of Hostess “taking their ball and going home”. There was some blame assigned to the management by the pro-union posters, but did anyone note that management also faces unemployment, too?

Yep, the union sure showed them: shut them down and put nasty old management in the unemployment line!

Is Solyndra hiring?

@@

November 16th, 2012
3:07 pm

About Wonder Bread, Sunbeam…any of the white breads, for that matter.

As a kid, it always got stuck on the roof of my mouth. I’ve always imagined a wet paper towel or toilet paper would do the same thing.

Kyle Wingfield

November 16th, 2012
3:08 pm

Dusty @ 2:53: I didn’t consider this post as much “playing ‘nice’ and fair and equal with all sides” (I assume you’re referring to the abortion part of this post) as much as telling some people who say they’re on my side that they blew it.

Thomas Heyward Jr

November 16th, 2012
3:09 pm

I know some old-timer republicans that value the gift of life that Wingfeild should NEVER “smack up side the head”.
He’d promptly learn what whippersnapper meant.
.
But anyhow…………………………you Rom-Bot Republicans ignore it all you want.
Ya had a chance…………instead you backed John Kerry Jr.
lol
.
Florida
Obama votes: 4,141,618
Romney votes: 4,094,952
Romney loss margin: 46,666
Paul primary votes: 117,461
Electoral votes: 29

New Hampshire
Obama votes: 366,089
Romney votes: 325,668
Romney loss margin: 40,421
Paul primary votes: 56,872
Electoral votes: 4

Ohio
Obama votes: 2,691,861
Romney votes: 2,584,620
Romney loss margin: 107,241
Paul primary votes: 113,256
Electoral votes: 18

Virginia
Obama votes: 1,868,191
Romney votes: 1,767,692
Romney loss margin: 100,499
Paul primary votes: 107,451
Electoral votes: 13
.
Now ya’ll have to rely on Obama to protect ye.
.
LOL

Darwin

November 16th, 2012
3:11 pm

Employees make the decision to strike and we can all live better without Hostess junk food. It’s a win win for all.

@@

November 16th, 2012
3:11 pm

I hate to be cynical but I’m about to post two pictures in two separate posts (rules).

There’s something askew.

Photo #1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/15/gaza-twitter-war-infant-casualties

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 16th, 2012
3:13 pm

OK, so Thomas has proven that Libertarians prevented Romney from winning, now let’s see him show that a Libertarian would have done better than Romney.

@@

November 16th, 2012
3:13 pm

cc

November 16th, 2012
3:13 pm

Dang!

Are we just now getting the election results (again)?

I thought that election was last week?

Penalty call: Excessive celebration.

Black Label

November 16th, 2012
3:14 pm

Thomas

Unless you can factually demonstrate that all of the Ron Paul voters in the primary didn’t vote for Romney in the general, what you have presented means absolutely nothing. Well at least to anyone who can see that you are doing more implying than stating fact.

Keep swinging.

iggy

November 16th, 2012
3:17 pm

“As a kid, it always got stuck on the roof of my mouth.”

Yeah it did. I hated that Sunbeam bread. We went with Colonial…

iggy

November 16th, 2012
3:18 pm

Those union employees sure showed Hostess. I guess instead of a Thanksgiving Turkey they will all be eating Thanksgiving TurkeySpam.

Congrats to the Union!! Nice Job!

Yep

November 16th, 2012
3:19 pm

The past eight years management of the company has been in the hands of Wall Street investors, “restructuring experts”, third-tier managers from other non-baking food companies and currently a “liquidation specialist”. Six CEO’s in eight years, none of whom with any bread and cake baking industry experience, was the prescription for failure.

southpaw

November 16th, 2012
3:20 pm

Don’t Tread @2:40

Hostess union workers might very well have heard of Eastern Airlines. They would have been completely reasonable to tell themselves, “No corporate raider is trying to sell off assets from our company.” That wasn’t the case with Eastern. My dad was an Eastern pilot at that time, and when the Air Line Pilots Association decided to support the International Association of Machinists’ strike, my dad was planning to cross the picket line. Then he saw a video from Farrell Kupersmith, of the accounting firm then known as Touche Ross (since merged into Deloitte). Mr. Kupersmith showed how the management of Texas Air, which owned Eastern, was looting Eastern for the benefit of Continental Air Lines and to line Texas Air’s pockets. My dad reluctantly decided to honor the picket line, figuring that Eastern had a better chance at new leadership (and survival) if the pilots struck rather than worked. Obviously, that hope didn’t pan out, but the pilots did everything they knew how to do in order to try and save Eastern.

cc

November 16th, 2012
3:21 pm

Thomas Heyward Jr has no point, he’s merely continuing his celebration . . .

Thomas Heyward Jr

November 16th, 2012
3:22 pm

Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 16th, 2012
3:13 pm

OK, so Thomas has proven that Libertarians prevented Romney from winning, now let’s see him show that a Libertarian would have done better than Romney.
.
And Black Label———-
.
—————————————————————————————————————————-
.
Ya can’t at this point.
But Ron Paul and all the other conservatives aren’t the ones that are hispandering and aborto-pandering.
.
Shameless.
.
Go join the Democrats.

Black Label

November 16th, 2012
3:24 pm

Thomas

Thanks for acknowledging that what you posted was basically nothing except for speculation and wishful thinking

Good day.

SBinF

November 16th, 2012
3:24 pm

Hasn’t the Hostess company filed for bankruptcy twice in the last decade already?

Seems a bit disingenuous to blame their latest difficulties on intransigent workers.

Jefferson

November 16th, 2012
3:25 pm

The GOP never stops being funny, you folks are a riot. Twinkies, pretty funny you do want the gov’t to step in eh ?

Dunwoody Granny

November 16th, 2012
3:26 pm

For those who ask why the govt didn’t rush to bail out Hostess like they bailed out the financial and auto industries, there are a bunch of differences. For one thing, in those previous bailouts, it was not just one company going broke, it was a whole industry. While I’m sure many people will miss Twinkies and Ding Dongs, no on seriously thinks the junk food industry as a whole is in danger. For another thing, both the financial industry and the auto industry would have taken a whole lot with them if they went down. Just think of all the parts and materials that go into making a car. The auto manufacturers don’t make all that steel and plastic and glass and leather and rubber; they buy things from other companies, and in many cases, the auto industry is by far the major customer for those suppliers. If the auto industry fails, the suppliers fail as well. That’s not so much the case with Hostess; while having Hostess fail might be a blow to a flour vendor or two, those sellers will find other markets for their product. Finally, tooling up to make Twinkies is a lot easier than tooling up to make cars. If the US had lost the auto industry in 2008, that industry might have been gone for good. But if Hershey decides it wants to go into the bakery industry, it won’t take a year for Twinkisses to start hitting the market.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 16th, 2012
3:27 pm

Dr. Paul had his chance at beating Romney and failed miserably.

Now go join……never mind, no one wants you. And you get to suffer through four more years of Obozo as a bonus.

MANGLER

November 16th, 2012
3:28 pm

There’s a difference between the two Pro’s.
Pro-Life is seen as a religiously based position.
whereas
Pro-Choice is seen as a politically based position.
Americans seem to inherently distrust legislation when it is overtly religious in nature, and since we rarely if ever hear a pro-life argument that doesn’t quote some bible verse, pro-life laws will always face challenges from a large part of the population.
Pro-choice laws don’t require that you get abortions, they just create a legal atmosphere where when they are necessary they are performed safely by licensed Doctors. Pro-life laws don’t stop abortions at all, they just force them underground.

luangtom

November 16th, 2012
3:31 pm

Well, does this just show us all that most unions have outlived their usefulness in these current times? To stand-fast and allow over 18,000 to lose their jobs proves this to me. The parent-union chose to follow the lead of the court and yet the smaller, local(s) voted against maintaining jobs and livelihoods. Amazing. This would have meant wage-cuts and paying more for health-care, but it would have maintained family support and stability, at least to some degree. What does losing jobs now do? Prove a point? These are the same people that re-elected Obama because their unions told them how to vote.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
3:36 pm

My understanding from reading another article, that because of union restrictions, it took three hostess employees to do the job of one person. I guess it does take a village, huh?

Chuck

November 16th, 2012
3:41 pm

Everytime I hear one of these bible thumping moro…idio…dumba… er people I mean. I just want to ask them to show me their adopted child that they saved from abortions. I personally do not believe in abortions, because people that need them are just too stupid or lazy to prevent themselves (woman and man) from getting in that situation, condoms are very cheap. However I do not believe that the Government should have any say what happens between a person and their doctor.

The Hostess situation is kinda funny, between the imcompetent management and the corrupt union employees this is the only outcome that could of happened. The union were told that the company (poorly run I am sure) could not survive a strike, hell even the mafia… I mean Teamsters agreed and didn’t strike, but the bakers union decide to roll the dice anyway, well you rolled snake eyes jackass.

Lets save this country…VOTE LIBERTARIAN.

iggy

November 16th, 2012
3:41 pm

” it took three hostess employees to do the job of one person. I guess it does take a village, huh?”

I read that same piece…

iggy

November 16th, 2012
3:42 pm

Unions – good.
Twinkies – bad.

Thomas Heyward Jr

November 16th, 2012
3:43 pm

MANGLER

November 16th, 2012
3:28 pm
.
.

Pro-choice laws don’t require that you get abortions, they just create a legal atmosphere where when they are necessary they are performed safely by licensed Doctors.
.
—————————————————————————————————————————
.
……..With tax-payers money.
.
go peddle your propoganda to Karl Rove.
He’ll run with it.

iggy

November 16th, 2012
3:43 pm

Getting close to dinner time and what would go better than a box of twinkies? I tell ya what!!

A box of PIZZA from Papa Johns. Lettuce remember its “Pizza for Papa” night!!

Thomas Heyward Jr

November 16th, 2012
3:43 pm

And maybe Wingfeild.
.
lol

JDW

November 16th, 2012
3:44 pm

@Tiberius…”The difference is – I don’t care what management wanted to do. They’re management and THEY get to set the rules, NOT the workers.”

O’ dear management philosophy from Tiberiusville…I guess you can still keep ‘em in chains there!

Over here in the real world successful companies have figured out that THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN THIER SUCCESS is the quality and engagement level of their employees. The ones that don’t get the message…why they go out of business…have a Twinkie…then go learn something…

http://blogs.hbr.org/schwartz/2012/11/creating-sustainable-employee.html

Black Label

November 16th, 2012
3:46 pm

iggy

Get yourself two pizzas. Next week those same two pizzas will be .30 more.

:-)

Del

November 16th, 2012
3:46 pm

500 hundred in the bakers union took down 18,000 jobs along with their own.

Linda

November 16th, 2012
3:50 pm

The Teamsters Union had agreed to contract negotiations with Hostess & begged the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers & Grain Millers Internatl. Union (BCTWGM) to reconsider their strike. Now, unions are fighting with unions.

33 bakeries, 565 distribution centers, 5500 delivery routes & 570 bakery outlet stores will close.

An expert predicts it will cost US taxpayers $438.5 M in unemployment benefits & $58 M in Medicaid benefits.

A song should be written: I fought the boss & the boss won……

Twinkie ~ How's that union job working for you

November 16th, 2012
3:51 pm

Food stamps, unemployment checks ?

Just sayin’…

mike

November 16th, 2012
3:51 pm

Hostess reminds me of one of those furniture companies that have a perpetual “GOING OUT OF BUSINESS” sale. We’ll see if they ACTUALLY go out of business. Like American Airlines and many, many others, my guess is that they just want to get out from under their pension obligations and cheat their employees out of pensions they worked all of their lives for.

iggy

November 16th, 2012
3:52 pm

Del…yup…2.7% took down the whole Sha-Bang. 2.7% flushed the entire company right down the ole toilet.

Mr Spock could learn a lesson here…The needs of the many didnt outweigh the needs of the few.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 16th, 2012
3:52 pm

When investor and newspaper fan Warren Buffett bought the Media General newspaper chain last year, there was hope for all of them, including the Manassas News & Messenger and the Richmond Times-Dispatch.But Buffett’s company announced today it is shutting down the News & Messenger after 143 years, as well as its highly informative Web site, InsideNoVA.com. It is the only paper in the Media General chain being shuttered by World Media Enterprises, a division of Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Inc.
———–

More management ineptitude, eh?

Kyle, You Are Right

November 16th, 2012
3:52 pm

Single professional female here – I am grateful to earn a decent salary at my job. Since the Federal government would benefit from being cut by 20%-50%, I wanted to vote for Romney but was unable to do so because the government the Republicans want is sooo small, it fits right into my uterus.

The Republicans made it very clear that they wanted to meddle in my life….and I want to be left alone. The Federal government wants to meddle in my life as well, and I don’t want that either.

Small government = don’t tread on me.

Is there any political party that will both reduce the size of the Federal government and also just LEAVE ME ALONE?

iggy

November 16th, 2012
3:53 pm

” I fought the boss & the boss won……”

LOL ;)

Chuck

November 16th, 2012
3:53 pm

I do not believe that any of the employees that went out on strike, or any of the other employees that refused to cross the picket line should get unemployment. They were told what would happen if they did this, so to me they quit their jobs.

Rockerbabe

November 16th, 2012
3:56 pm

carlosgvv:
This is my country and the US Constitution gives me the same rights as men. I’m not going anywhere. If the GOP doesn’t like it and doesn’t change their attitude towards women and their needs, then they can remain an out-of-power political party and hopefully will dry up and blow away.

mike

November 16th, 2012
3:56 pm

As far as abortion is concerned: if you’re against abortion don’t have one. Why is it so many people feel it necessary to meddle in the lives of others?

Chuck

November 16th, 2012
3:56 pm

“Is there any political party that will both reduce the size of the Federal government and also just LEAVE ME ALONE?”

Read up on the Libertarian Party, I think that you will find that are right up your ally, but no where near your uterus.

Del

November 16th, 2012
3:57 pm

Chuck,

You make an excellent point.

Ding Dongs ~ How's that union job working for you

November 16th, 2012
4:01 pm

Half a ho hos look any better than no ho hos at all to you yet ?

Just sayin…

Chuck

November 16th, 2012
4:01 pm

Read up on the Libertarian Party, I think that you will find that they are right up your alley, but no where near your uterus

My spelling and grammer be awful today.

@@

November 16th, 2012
4:01 pm

I was testing the waters with my 3:11 and 3:13.

Apologies for the lengthy post.

A then and now observation from Glenn Greenwald:

On Israeli assassinations:

Then?

2001—”The United States, while also condemning Palestinian violence, made clear its disapproval of the assassinations.

“State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said: ‘The use of Israeli helicopter gunships, Palestinian attacks against settlements and motorists, the use of mortars by Palestinians and the targeted killings by the Israeli Defence Force … are producing a new cycle of action or reaction which can become impossible to control.’

“Mr Boucher added that the new Secretary of State, Colin Powell, who is due to visit the Middle East next week, had spoken several times ‘about the need to avoid these kind of actions’”.

That US condemnation of Israel’s targeted killing came, by the way, from the George W. Bush administration.

Now?

2012—When asked about the possibility of a ground offensive, Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes told reporters on a conference call that the United States respects Israel’s right to defend itself, but would not like to see the conflict escalate further.

“Our view is the Israelis have a right of self-defense when their citizens are faced with the threat of indiscriminate rocket fire from within Gaza. Ultimately it’s up to the Israeli government to make a determination about how they are going to carry out their military objective,” said Rhodes.

Be sure to scroll down to Greenwald’s “Obama’s Second Term” discussion (three links).

An excerpt from one of the transcripts:

On cuts to entitlement spending?

NERMEEN SHAIKH: But you also make an argument, Glenn, about why it would be easier and it will be easier for Obama to curtail these programs in a way that it would not have been possible, say, if Romney had been elected. Can you elaborate on that?

GLENN GREENWALD: Sure. I mean, this, to me, was the principal deficiency of the discussion and discourse leading up to the election in Democratic and progressive circles. If you were a journalist working for the last year, as you were, as I was, and identifying things that President Obama was doing that were wrong or that were erroneous, the argument that you would immediately hear is, “Well, Mitt Romney is worse,” by which those people would mean that the position that Mitt Romney had in the campaign on those issues was either as bad as or worse than the one that President Obama had. Now, in one sense, that was irrelevant. If you’re a journalist, if you’re a citizen, your duty is to hold the people who exercise power accountable. And the fact that Mitt Romney is worse doesn’t alleviate that obligation. But even from an election perspective, that’s an incredibly simple-minded and incomplete way of looking at things. The question is not: Is Mitt Romney’s view on a particular issue, or are the Republicans’ position on a particular issue as bad or worse? The question is: What are each candidate able to accomplish in their particular field?

[snip]

And lots of Bush officials had said, “There was a lot of this stuff that we wanted to do that we knew we couldn’t do, because had we tried, there would have been an enormous storm from Democrats, from the media, and we just couldn’t do it.” But Obama can do it because he brings progressives and Democrats along with him. Mitt Romney never would have been able to cut Social Security or target Medicare, because there would have been an enormous eruption of anger and intense, sustained opposition by Democrats and progressives accusing him of all sorts of things. President Obama has the ability, as he’s proven over and over, to bring Democrats and progressives along with him and to lead them to support and get on board with things that they have sworn they would never, ever be able to support. And for that reason, he is in a much better position, he’s much more effective, at institutionalizing these horrible policies than Mitt Romney or any other Republican would have the ability to do.

So…to sum it up in Greenwald’s words:

Will the Democratic Party, and specifically the progressive and liberal component of the Democratic Party, change its behavior from cheerleader, from blindly supportive, partisan apparatchiks, which is what they were in the first term, putting pressure on him in almost no instance, cheering for whatever it is that he did, no matter how contrary it was to their professed values, into some kind of a force where they actually fulfill their duties as citizens, which is to hold political leaders accountable?

Cheerleaders? Blindly supportive? Partisan apparatchiks? Absent values? Simple-minded?

Greenwald is calling you left-wingers out.

Well…there is AmVet. He professes to be the one true progressive? Conservative? Funny thing though…he’s the one who’s been celebrating an Obama win with the greatest enthusiasm.

Funny, that.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 16th, 2012
4:04 pm

“Over here in the real world successful companies have figured out that THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN THIER SUCCESS is the quality and engagement level of their employees.”

And it applies to Hostess – how – JDW?

No matter how hard you try, you cannot change the rules. Management still runs companies; good, bad and in between. Doesn’t matter how much or how little they value their employees, MANAGEMENT STILL RUNS THE BUSINESS.

mike

November 16th, 2012
4:04 pm

It should also be noted that the Hostess Brands, Inc. pension fund is currently underfunded to the tune of $2,000,000,000.00 (two billion dollars). Maybe that could have something to do with their decision to declare bankruptcy. Ya think?

@@

November 16th, 2012
4:08 pm

Oops! Forgot to include the link. I’ll find it and deliver.

Class of '98

November 16th, 2012
4:09 pm

You, you neglected to mention that these union fools voted to continue their strike in spite of the shutdown because the union leaders convinced them that as soon as Hostess closes, another company will come along, buy the brand(s), buy the bakeries, and give them all as much money, vacation, pension, etc. as they want.

We’ll see how that works out. I guess you could say an idiot and his job are soon parted.

Linda

November 16th, 2012
4:09 pm

Women harp about their rights much more than men complain about theirs.
Women harp only about certain parts of their anatomies & not others.
Some women harp only about conservatives entering their bedrooms & not progressives invading the rest of their homes, as well as their cars & their children’s lunchrooms.
It’s only conservatives who can define when rights begin.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 16th, 2012
4:09 pm

“It should also be noted that the Hostess Brands, Inc. pension fund is currently underfunded to the tune of $2,000,000,000.00 (two billion dollars). Maybe that could have something to do with their decision to declare bankruptcy. Ya think?”

And maybe the REASON it’s underfunded is because the union deal remains too expensive for the company to fund. Ya think?

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
4:10 pm

I wish I could find that article now. It was astonishing. Something to the effect that the same person that loaded the truck, could not drive the truck, and the driver could not unload the truck or something similar. Kwazy.

Sno Balls ~ How's that union job working for you

November 16th, 2012
4:10 pm

If any of you jobless ex-Hostess union workers who voted for Obama want a real union job with the kind of paychecks you feel you’re entitled to and rightly deserve, then apply to MARTA immediately: Some of our bus drivers make in excess of $200K per year, plus benefits(while they last).

Just sayin’…

@@

November 16th, 2012
4:10 pm

Chuck

November 16th, 2012
4:11 pm

Mike

According to The Wallstreet Journal (conservative) and The New York Time (progressive) the entire pension fund is only worth 954 million dollars, so how in the world is it underfunded at 2 billion dollars. That must be government math.

carlosgvv

November 16th, 2012
4:13 pm

Tiberius – 3:03

In your case, it’s a rich kid being homeschooled who is filled with an undeserved arrogance and looks foward to a life of not having to lift a finger in any sort of work.

Class of '98

November 16th, 2012
4:13 pm

that last post was supposed to be addressed to kyle

Bullseye

November 16th, 2012
4:14 pm

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 16th, 2012
4:15 pm

Typical failure on your part, carlos.

Thanks for playing.

@@

November 16th, 2012
4:15 pm

Oh….and keep in mind….if Obama could get hisself re-elected after having failed to deliver, he’s proven that he can do as he pleases without your consent. Useful tools being what they are.

Perhaps it was the promise of free stuff that won your vote?

schnirt

Linda

November 16th, 2012
4:16 pm

Is there a unionized company in the US that has a pension fund that is funded?

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 16th, 2012
4:17 pm

Bullseye, if you want control over executive pay, stop being an hourly wage worker and start your own company.

It’s a simple as that.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
4:18 pm

Linda – all the pension funds can be located with Jimmy Hoffa, where ever he is.

@@

November 16th, 2012
4:19 pm

Is there a unionized company in the US that has a pension fund that is funded?

Not that I’ve seen. Overly generous in their heyday, underfunded as a result.

mike

November 16th, 2012
4:19 pm

“As of January 2012, Hostess’ pension fund was approximately $2 billion underfunded,”

http://business.time.com/2012/11/15/time-to-start-stockpiling-twinkies-hostess-in-limbo-as-workers-strike/

Chuck, how the heck should I know. I only know what I read.

Dmurphy

November 16th, 2012
4:19 pm

i cannot show sympathy,since so many republican whites and hispanics have been so rude to me in central florida and south florida,because barack obama has won,anytime the t.v.shows something aweful about republican white and hispanics and asians its gonna be oh well,they really dispay evil as you walk through the aventura mall in miami,evil as if god has a separate heaven fo them,i got a message for them god see when you treat other races evil,

Linda

November 16th, 2012
4:22 pm

Conservatives know better than to quote conservative websites, even on a conservative blog. Only an liberal idiot would quote a progressive website on a conservative blog to “prove” a point.

Don't Tread

November 16th, 2012
4:23 pm

Like your dad, my father spent a lot of time working at Eastern (40+ years).

The reason Eastern was vulnerable and eventually sold to Texas Air in the first place has a lot to do with union refusal to accept any cuts to their benefits, despite increasing fuel costs, deregulation, and increased competition from Delta, which was less unionized and could operate on an equal footing at lower cost.

Once the airline was sold to Texas Air, its days were numbered, and the employees knew it – but by that point it was too late.

mike

November 16th, 2012
4:24 pm

Linda: “Is there a unionized company in the US that has a pension fund that is funded?”

Yes, Linda, companies with Defined Benefit (pension) plans are required to fund those plans using actuarial projections. The biggest problem has been that under old actuarial projections, much less money was required to be set aside to fund pensions. That was because money invested could expect and far greater return than now. Now, with the bad economy and greatly dimished returns on investments, the amount of money required is much greater.

mike

November 16th, 2012
4:25 pm

I forgot to mention that Defined Benefit plans (pensions) are something of a dinosaur. Most companies now have a Defined Contribution plan (i.e., 401(k), etc.)

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
4:26 pm

Don’t Tread – My dad is retired from Delta, but I personally was glad that there was competition in the airline industry. Then Eastern, Republic (Southern) and Pan Am just vanished. Very sad.

mike

November 16th, 2012
4:28 pm

One thing all of you gloating right wingers need to remember is that if Hostess Brands, Inc. reneges on its pension obligations, you, the taxpayer are on the hook for it. You see, those employees will still receive most of their pensions (but not medical care) under the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, a federal agency. Guess who pays for their medical care in the form of higher insurance premiums? You got it! YOU DO!

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
4:28 pm

I thought the Eastern L-1011 planes were really good looking planes. I saw one on a documentary of some sort not too long ago.

Linda

November 16th, 2012
4:30 pm

That’s the problem with liberals. They only know what they read. Applies to Mother Goose but not the Bible.

mike

November 16th, 2012
4:32 pm

At least I read.

SBinF

November 16th, 2012
4:32 pm

Yes Linda, because reading the Bible would help figure out this confusing corporate bankruptcy stuff!

mike

November 16th, 2012
4:34 pm

@@ @4:10 That was a great article. Its nice to read the truth every now and again. The rest of you might try it sometime. You can start with that article.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
4:36 pm

Mike, I’m a little slow. Why do our premiums go up because these unemployed workers lose their coverage?

Chuck

November 16th, 2012
4:36 pm

One good thing, maybe the government wll keep their nose out of this situation and let this company die. Bad companies should die regardless of how big they are (A.I.G., General Motors, Chase Bank) that is what keep the economy strong, it is Darwinism. The government (Bush & Obama) decided to invest our money (taxes) in General Motors, one of the worst companies out there, we will lose most of that money, then within 10 years we (taxpayers) will have to make another large investment to save them again. General Motors has been bragging about the record sales of Volts that they have achieved, they fail to report that they are losing money on every Volt they sell and even more on everyone that they lease, we should have put all that tax money down on the craps table, it would have been a better investment.

Aquagirl

November 16th, 2012
4:38 pm

Yes Linda, because reading the Bible would help figure out this confusing corporate bankruptcy stuff!

Post of the day!

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
4:38 pm

Sorry you don’t like GM Chuck. You can always get one of those hi-kwalitie Japanese kars.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
4:41 pm

Here’s a question for you, why is it that they only manufacture toy-otas. They need to build full grown otas.

mike

November 16th, 2012
4:41 pm

“Why do our premiums go up because these unemployed workers lose their coverage?”

Because those who don’t have insurance present themselves at the Emergency Room for care which they cannot pay for. The hospital then spreads those costs over those who have insurance which results in higher premiums for those who have insurance. Get it?

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
4:41 pm

Ah yes, the old emergency room sore throat. Thanks.

Chuck

November 16th, 2012
4:44 pm

Great post, Nunna Yobinnes

A great many of the “Japanese” kars, as you put it, are built right here in American by Americans, and there also happens to be a American car company that did not go begging in Washington D.C. and get handouts, you may have heard of them, small little company called FORD I think.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
4:45 pm

Yeah, if only they could go a few weeks without another recall.

cc

November 16th, 2012
4:47 pm

“That’s the problem with liberals. They only know what they read. Applies to Mother Goose but not the Bible.”

LOL! So very true . . .

Chuck

November 16th, 2012
4:52 pm

I am not defending the quality of Ford, I am just stating that they did not have to go begging for tax money, because they had run their company into the ground. I have a German car, I would never buy a new American car, I love the old ones though.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
4:52 pm

Let’s put it this way. My lovely wife’s “Japanese kar” had the timing chain break on it after only 141,000 miles (that really does a number on your valves, etc. Only $4,000 to fix.) I’ve had quite a few GM cars go well over that mileage with no such problems at all. Of course, a lot of people have media driven opinions. The websites tell them that GM cars are no good, and that they should drive imported cars only.

Linda

November 16th, 2012
4:59 pm

SBinF@4:32, Sorry you are confused by both corporate bankruptcy & my post.
Corporate bankruptcy is one of the rights of free enterprise, the right to fail.
My post refers to an on-going debate as to liberals’ reliance on limited resources & conservatives’ reliance on expanded resources, as well as the cynicism that seem to be more inherent of conservatives. In other words, liberals will believe anything & conservatives believe nothing without proof.

@@

November 16th, 2012
4:59 pm

mike:

Just know that I disagree with Greenwald’s views on assassinations. I also disagree with him on entitlement spending. Can’t go on as it has been…

growing…growing and… growing s’more.

No amount of tax increases will be able to sustain it.

Just so you know…I voted Ryan/Romney, not Romney/Ryan.

It’s time to accept the harsh realities.

Chuck

November 16th, 2012
5:00 pm

Yes you are right Nunna, I let the media decide that I should drive a German car. There is no proof that they are better quality cars, except that maybe out of the top 10 highest mileage on the original engine cars 8 are Mercedes Benz. I am sure that the Chevy Cobalt is better than E550.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
5:01 pm

It’s easy to last a long time when the car’s in the shop all the time.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
5:02 pm

Just kidding Chuck.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
5:02 pm

Some of us can’t afford to put $70,000 in a car.

mike

November 16th, 2012
5:04 pm

Oh I almost forgot my free gift came in the mail today for voting for Obama. A $100 gift certificate for crab legs at Whole Foods! Man, I can hardly wait!

mike

November 16th, 2012
5:05 pm

I wonder how they knew I voted for Obama?

Chuck

November 16th, 2012
5:05 pm

You lose all credibility when you try to argue that G.M. is better than Mercedes in quality. This just proves that you are a troll just looking for an fight and I am not interested. I thought that you had real ideas, my bad. Out.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
5:05 pm

Quick Mike – git on yer Obamaphone and let everyone know!

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
5:07 pm

Never said it was better. Just said it wasn’t as bad as you made it out to be. Like I said, some of us can’t afford to spend $70,000 on a car. I put 33,000 miles a year on a car. Paying $70,000 over a four year period is pretty tough.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
5:12 pm

Calling me a troll after comparing a Chevy Cobalt to an E-550? If that ain’t trolling, I don’t know what is.

Jack ®

November 16th, 2012
5:25 pm

Those 18,500 folks without a job should start their own Twinkie business. Or maybe the union folks will start a Twinkie business. That’ll show those old rich capitalists a thing or two.

JDW

November 16th, 2012
5:26 pm

@Tiberius…”And it applies to Hostess – how – JDW?”

Ol’ thinking cap not working today I see…as always.

It applies to Hostess and anyone else that adopts your stated management philosophy of:

“Management has ZERO obligation to give them what they ask for”

Because those are the companies that don’t get it and will be either less successful or more probably dead in the long run. No matter how you, Kyle and the other Conservative wannabes on this blog would like to lay the blame at the unions feet the fault is with the management. More specifically in the way they chose to treat their employees over a very long time.

As a result they lost their ability to innovate and the market ate them. Didn’t have a damn thing to do with the union.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 16th, 2012
5:33 pm

Oh come on JDW. You can’t be profitable when union regulations require you to hire three employees to do the job of one employee.

@@

November 16th, 2012
5:43 pm

We owned a Mercedes once. It sucked.

Roomy but…

it sucked.

cc

November 16th, 2012
5:47 pm

I’d just like to have either my ‘59 Impala Sport Coupe or my ‘67 Mustang back!

All things considered, I believe I’d rather have the ‘59, though . . .

mike

November 16th, 2012
5:52 pm

cc

November 16th, 2012
6:00 pm

Thanks, mike!

It was a beautiful car . . . and brings back such memories!

cc

November 16th, 2012
6:02 pm

mike:

If you changed the color, the picture is identical to the one I owned, fenderskirts and all.

mike

November 16th, 2012
6:05 pm

cc: any of those memories happen in the back seat? HAHAHAHAHA! That’s when the back seat was actually big enough to have memories in!

cc

November 16th, 2012
6:30 pm

mike:

I respectfully refuse to answer based on my rights against self-incrimination granted under the Constitution of the United States.

JDW

November 16th, 2012
6:31 pm

@Nunna…”Oh come on JDW. You can’t be profitable when union regulations require you to hire three employees to do the job of one employee.”

Not exactly…you can’t be profitable if your relationship with your workforce is so bad their union makes such demands.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 17th, 2012
7:48 am

Interesting factoid…blue state California has 12% of the nation’s population and receives 33% of federal welfare spending.

Michael Cabrera

November 17th, 2012
2:36 pm

A company in trouble? Romney must have smelled the blood in the water by now, and is on his way to save it and create jobs.

Jeff and the Camaros

November 20th, 2012
11:39 am

Do your homework on the Hostess/Twinkies thing, the union has given in several times, while venture capitalist (vulture capitalists?) have made millions. To strictly blame this on a union is incorrect, self serving, and sounds like a Fox News sound bite.