Twinkies and abortion: Two from the ‘I hope you’re happy’ files
One from each side of the ideological spectrum. I’ll start with a smack upside the religious right’s collective head:
According to Rasmussen Reports, in a survey conducted after a presidential election in which abortion rights and the stupid statements of two GOP Senate candidates featured far too heavily, 54 percent of Americans describe themselves as “pro-choice” versus 38 percent who say they’re “pro-life.” This is in sharp contrast with Gallup’s finding back in May, in which half of respondents said they were “pro-life” versus 41 percent who were “pro-choice.” In fact, Gallup’s annual survey on the topic hasn’t found such a sharp pro-choice majority since 1995.
It will be interesting to see what Gallup finds on the question next May, after election-related passions have cooled. But to the degree the Rasmussen survey shows the consequences of changing what it means to be “pro-life,” I blame those right-to-life groups that have pushed politicians to oppose exceptions for rape and incest.
Senate candidates Todd Akin of Missouri and Richard Mourdock of Indiana probably wouldn’t have even been talking about abortion and rape together if not for this anti-exceptions push, a.k.a. the “personhood” movement. I’ve explained my thoughts on personhood a few times before, and this was yet another election that bore out my point. In fact, my point about personhood being a political loser will, unfortunately, be truer than ever if one of the conservative Supreme Court justices or court swing vote Anthony Kennedy ends up leaving the bench during the next four years and President Obama gets to nominate his replacement. The question will truly be settled for another generation, in large part because the RTL groups tried to move the goal posts before they ever made much of a kick.
So, to the degree Akin and Mourdock hurt Mitt Romney’s candidacy — and I think Romney’s showing with women, particularly single women, and younger voters suggests they probably did — the hard-line right-to-lifers have really bitten themselves. Way to go.
Now for the stubborn boneheadedness from the other side, via the AP:
The maker of the iconic U.S. snack Twinkies said Friday it is going out of business and laying off all of its 18,500 workers after a national strike crippled its operations. …
Hostess Brands had warned employees that it would file a motion in U.S. Bankruptcy Court to unwind its business and sell assets if plant operations didn’t return to normal levels by Thursday evening.
Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden, er, snacks.
Insisting on your position as a union is tricky enough in normal times. When unemployment is around 8 percent and a bankruptcy judge has authorized the company to rework some of its labor deals, you’d think the union would be wise enough to realize things could end this way.
Apparently not. Well, they sure taught those capitalists a lesson, huh?
– By Kyle Wingfield
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236 comments Add your comment
Puck
November 16th, 2012
2:36 pm
Of course, the fact that Hostess was over leveraged as a result of going private had nothing at all to do with their going back into Chapter 11.
Buzz Belle
November 16th, 2012
2:37 pm
The extreme comments on abortion was just one of many comments made by republicans that were more extreme than the voters agreed with.
As far as Twinkies, a couple of things. One union agreed to 8% pay decrease and a reduction of benefits in exchange for a 4% increase in one year and 1% increase the year after. The bakers union rejected that and it sounds as though that is where it fell apart. If an agreement was made to reduce wages and benefits to help the company by one union, I can’t blame all unions. As I recall, auto workers also took huge hits in wage and benefits, agreed upon by the unions and corporation. I guess my point is, don’t paint all unions as not willing to give an inch. Unions serve a good purpose, standing up for the middle guy. In this case, one union might have dealt the blow. But, people weren’t really buying Twinkies anymore were they?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 16th, 2012
2:38 pm
Your argument might hold some water, JF McNamara, if unions weren’t solidly behind the Democrat party.
If it weren’t for the support of Democrats, unions would have disappeared long ago as a viable option.
Don't Tread
November 16th, 2012
2:40 pm
Guess the Hostess union people never heard of Eastern Airlines, which reminds me of the saying “those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”. While I’m not a fan of Twinkies, the cinnamon buns were pretty good. Hopefully they will find a buyer for the brand name and the secret recipes that go with it.
curious
November 16th, 2012
2:42 pm
I’ve never belonged to a union, but I do believe unions are a big reason this country has a middle class.
JDW
November 16th, 2012
2:44 pm
@Tiberius…”Management has ZERO obligation to give them what they ask for”
Of course it follows that the workers then have ZERO obligation to work, which they exercised…bye bye Hostess…of course you do realize they were going to sell the brands and shaft the workers in thier own sweet time don’t you….thought not…it’s the Private Equity Way!@Tiberius…”Management has ZERO obligation to give them what they ask for”
Of course it follows that the workers then have ZERO obligation to work, which they exercised…bye bye Hostess…of course you do realize they were going to sell the brands and shaft the workers in their own sweet time don’t you….thought not…
Black Label
November 16th, 2012
2:49 pm
There will be reasons and excuses over the next few weeks for what went down at Hostess. My take is that over the years there probably was a combination of bad management who didn’t correctly gauge the market as well as unions who didn’t work well with management. Everyone has to learn to give and take: execs and unions alike.
Interesting read below, however there are certainly other sources with other takes on the issue.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49853653
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 16th, 2012
2:50 pm
“of course you do realize they were going to sell the brands and shaft the workers in thier own sweet time don’t you….thought not…it’s the Private Equity Way!”
Actually, I DID know that, which is just another indication of how consistently wrong you are, JDW.
The difference is – I don’t care what management wanted to do. They’re management and THEY get to set the rules, NOT the workers.
jconservative
November 16th, 2012
2:50 pm
Kyle Wingfield @ 1:13 pm
Completely agree.
As Archbishop Gregory once put it, we have a lot of folks “tilting at windmills” ala Don Quixote.
Linda
November 16th, 2012
2:50 pm
The Hostess story is the Wizard of Oz Part II. The witch was not dead & killed Ding Dong, along with the jobs of 18,000 Twinkies workers.
Centrist
November 16th, 2012
2:53 pm
@ Don’t Tread – Have you ever heard of the expression “The straw that broke the camel’s back”? When companies fail, there is always that final straw – and it often gets blamed (usually in an attempt to ignore the rest of the load).
Dusty
November 16th, 2012
2:53 pm
Kyle,
No, I am not happy. You are supposed to be on the sane side, not give ammuniotion to the errr… saneless. You are playing “nice’ and fair and equal again with all sides. . That’s nice but you are working with many of the ” all or nothing” crowd who have only one vision and they are not consevatives. For example, they beseiged Romney without playing nice, fair, or equal.
Fight fire with fire or dabble with diplomacy? You obviously did not choose fire.
OK, I’ll go get some excitement from a nice bowl of oatmeal or something. Anybody got a Twinkie?
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 16th, 2012
2:56 pm
The stockholders will keep whatever capital the union thugs didn’t destroy and invest elsewhere. The union thugs will trudge down to the unemployment office, having been sold down the river by their union leaders.
carlosgvv
November 16th, 2012
3:01 pm
Tiberius – 2:50
Big Business moguls and their Republican toadies just LOVE people with
elitest attitudes like yours.
Child, Please
November 16th, 2012
3:02 pm
More than likely the Hostess workers ate too much of the product and got fat and dumb at the same time. They thought they would flext their muscle and 12-13k of their co-workers lost jobs as a result. Sure they have lots of friends now.
Would be nice if the company fills out the separation notices to say that those employees quit vs. being terminated and would not be eligible for unemployment (the strikers should not be, the rest of the employees should be)
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 16th, 2012
3:03 pm
“Big Business moguls and their Republican toadies just LOVE people with
elitest attitudes like yours.”
Define “elitist”, carlos. You haven’t a clue, but try anyway.
iggy
November 16th, 2012
3:04 pm
“Fleas the size of rats sucked rats the size of cats….”
curious
November 16th, 2012
3:06 pm
What’s the latest layoff count?
cc
November 16th, 2012
3:06 pm
Re Hostess
Maybe I missed this in my reading, but I did see several references to the management of Hostess “taking their ball and going home”. There was some blame assigned to the management by the pro-union posters, but did anyone note that management also faces unemployment, too?
Yep, the union sure showed them: shut them down and put nasty old management in the unemployment line!
Is Solyndra hiring?
@@
November 16th, 2012
3:07 pm
About Wonder Bread, Sunbeam…any of the white breads, for that matter.
As a kid, it always got stuck on the roof of my mouth. I’ve always imagined a wet paper towel or toilet paper would do the same thing.
Kyle Wingfield
November 16th, 2012
3:08 pm
Dusty @ 2:53: I didn’t consider this post as much “playing ‘nice’ and fair and equal with all sides” (I assume you’re referring to the abortion part of this post) as much as telling some people who say they’re on my side that they blew it.
Thomas Heyward Jr
November 16th, 2012
3:09 pm
I know some old-timer republicans that value the gift of life that Wingfeild should NEVER “smack up side the head”.
He’d promptly learn what whippersnapper meant.
.
But anyhow…………………………you Rom-Bot Republicans ignore it all you want.
Ya had a chance…………instead you backed John Kerry Jr.
lol
.
Florida
Obama votes: 4,141,618
Romney votes: 4,094,952
Romney loss margin: 46,666
Paul primary votes: 117,461
Electoral votes: 29
New Hampshire
Obama votes: 366,089
Romney votes: 325,668
Romney loss margin: 40,421
Paul primary votes: 56,872
Electoral votes: 4
Ohio
Obama votes: 2,691,861
Romney votes: 2,584,620
Romney loss margin: 107,241
Paul primary votes: 113,256
Electoral votes: 18
Virginia
Obama votes: 1,868,191
Romney votes: 1,767,692
Romney loss margin: 100,499
Paul primary votes: 107,451
Electoral votes: 13
.
Now ya’ll have to rely on Obama to protect ye.
.
LOL
Darwin
November 16th, 2012
3:11 pm
Employees make the decision to strike and we can all live better without Hostess junk food. It’s a win win for all.
@@
November 16th, 2012
3:11 pm
I hate to be cynical but I’m about to post two pictures in two separate posts (rules).
There’s something askew.
Photo #1
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/15/gaza-twitter-war-infant-casualties
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 16th, 2012
3:13 pm
OK, so Thomas has proven that Libertarians prevented Romney from winning, now let’s see him show that a Libertarian would have done better than Romney.
@@
November 16th, 2012
3:13 pm
Photo #2
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/11/15/the-story-behind-the-photo-journalists-11-month-old-son-killed-in-gaza-strikes/?tid=pm_world_pop
Big difference in size.
cc
November 16th, 2012
3:13 pm
Dang!
Are we just now getting the election results (again)?
I thought that election was last week?
Penalty call: Excessive celebration.
Black Label
November 16th, 2012
3:14 pm
Thomas
Unless you can factually demonstrate that all of the Ron Paul voters in the primary didn’t vote for Romney in the general, what you have presented means absolutely nothing. Well at least to anyone who can see that you are doing more implying than stating fact.
Keep swinging.
iggy
November 16th, 2012
3:17 pm
“As a kid, it always got stuck on the roof of my mouth.”
Yeah it did. I hated that Sunbeam bread. We went with Colonial…
iggy
November 16th, 2012
3:18 pm
Those union employees sure showed Hostess. I guess instead of a Thanksgiving Turkey they will all be eating Thanksgiving TurkeySpam.
Congrats to the Union!! Nice Job!
Yep
November 16th, 2012
3:19 pm
The past eight years management of the company has been in the hands of Wall Street investors, “restructuring experts”, third-tier managers from other non-baking food companies and currently a “liquidation specialist”. Six CEO’s in eight years, none of whom with any bread and cake baking industry experience, was the prescription for failure.
southpaw
November 16th, 2012
3:20 pm
Don’t Tread @2:40
Hostess union workers might very well have heard of Eastern Airlines. They would have been completely reasonable to tell themselves, “No corporate raider is trying to sell off assets from our company.” That wasn’t the case with Eastern. My dad was an Eastern pilot at that time, and when the Air Line Pilots Association decided to support the International Association of Machinists’ strike, my dad was planning to cross the picket line. Then he saw a video from Farrell Kupersmith, of the accounting firm then known as Touche Ross (since merged into Deloitte). Mr. Kupersmith showed how the management of Texas Air, which owned Eastern, was looting Eastern for the benefit of Continental Air Lines and to line Texas Air’s pockets. My dad reluctantly decided to honor the picket line, figuring that Eastern had a better chance at new leadership (and survival) if the pilots struck rather than worked. Obviously, that hope didn’t pan out, but the pilots did everything they knew how to do in order to try and save Eastern.
cc
November 16th, 2012
3:21 pm
Thomas Heyward Jr has no point, he’s merely continuing his celebration . . .
Thomas Heyward Jr
November 16th, 2012
3:22 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 16th, 2012
3:13 pm
OK, so Thomas has proven that Libertarians prevented Romney from winning, now let’s see him show that a Libertarian would have done better than Romney.
.
And Black Label———-
.
—————————————————————————————————————————-
.
Ya can’t at this point.
But Ron Paul and all the other conservatives aren’t the ones that are hispandering and aborto-pandering.
.
Shameless.
.
Go join the Democrats.
Black Label
November 16th, 2012
3:24 pm
Thomas
Thanks for acknowledging that what you posted was basically nothing except for speculation and wishful thinking
Good day.
SBinF
November 16th, 2012
3:24 pm
Hasn’t the Hostess company filed for bankruptcy twice in the last decade already?
Seems a bit disingenuous to blame their latest difficulties on intransigent workers.
Jefferson
November 16th, 2012
3:25 pm
The GOP never stops being funny, you folks are a riot. Twinkies, pretty funny you do want the gov’t to step in eh ?
Dunwoody Granny
November 16th, 2012
3:26 pm
For those who ask why the govt didn’t rush to bail out Hostess like they bailed out the financial and auto industries, there are a bunch of differences. For one thing, in those previous bailouts, it was not just one company going broke, it was a whole industry. While I’m sure many people will miss Twinkies and Ding Dongs, no on seriously thinks the junk food industry as a whole is in danger. For another thing, both the financial industry and the auto industry would have taken a whole lot with them if they went down. Just think of all the parts and materials that go into making a car. The auto manufacturers don’t make all that steel and plastic and glass and leather and rubber; they buy things from other companies, and in many cases, the auto industry is by far the major customer for those suppliers. If the auto industry fails, the suppliers fail as well. That’s not so much the case with Hostess; while having Hostess fail might be a blow to a flour vendor or two, those sellers will find other markets for their product. Finally, tooling up to make Twinkies is a lot easier than tooling up to make cars. If the US had lost the auto industry in 2008, that industry might have been gone for good. But if Hershey decides it wants to go into the bakery industry, it won’t take a year for Twinkisses to start hitting the market.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 16th, 2012
3:27 pm
Dr. Paul had his chance at beating Romney and failed miserably.
Now go join……never mind, no one wants you. And you get to suffer through four more years of Obozo as a bonus.
MANGLER
November 16th, 2012
3:28 pm
There’s a difference between the two Pro’s.
Pro-Life is seen as a religiously based position.
whereas
Pro-Choice is seen as a politically based position.
Americans seem to inherently distrust legislation when it is overtly religious in nature, and since we rarely if ever hear a pro-life argument that doesn’t quote some bible verse, pro-life laws will always face challenges from a large part of the population.
Pro-choice laws don’t require that you get abortions, they just create a legal atmosphere where when they are necessary they are performed safely by licensed Doctors. Pro-life laws don’t stop abortions at all, they just force them underground.
luangtom
November 16th, 2012
3:31 pm
Well, does this just show us all that most unions have outlived their usefulness in these current times? To stand-fast and allow over 18,000 to lose their jobs proves this to me. The parent-union chose to follow the lead of the court and yet the smaller, local(s) voted against maintaining jobs and livelihoods. Amazing. This would have meant wage-cuts and paying more for health-care, but it would have maintained family support and stability, at least to some degree. What does losing jobs now do? Prove a point? These are the same people that re-elected Obama because their unions told them how to vote.
Nunna Yobinnes
November 16th, 2012
3:36 pm
My understanding from reading another article, that because of union restrictions, it took three hostess employees to do the job of one person. I guess it does take a village, huh?
Chuck
November 16th, 2012
3:41 pm
Everytime I hear one of these bible thumping moro…idio…dumba… er people I mean. I just want to ask them to show me their adopted child that they saved from abortions. I personally do not believe in abortions, because people that need them are just too stupid or lazy to prevent themselves (woman and man) from getting in that situation, condoms are very cheap. However I do not believe that the Government should have any say what happens between a person and their doctor.
The Hostess situation is kinda funny, between the imcompetent management and the corrupt union employees this is the only outcome that could of happened. The union were told that the company (poorly run I am sure) could not survive a strike, hell even the mafia… I mean Teamsters agreed and didn’t strike, but the bakers union decide to roll the dice anyway, well you rolled snake eyes jackass.
Lets save this country…VOTE LIBERTARIAN.
iggy
November 16th, 2012
3:41 pm
” it took three hostess employees to do the job of one person. I guess it does take a village, huh?”
I read that same piece…
iggy
November 16th, 2012
3:42 pm
Unions – good.
Twinkies – bad.
Thomas Heyward Jr
November 16th, 2012
3:43 pm
MANGLER
November 16th, 2012
3:28 pm
.
.
Pro-choice laws don’t require that you get abortions, they just create a legal atmosphere where when they are necessary they are performed safely by licensed Doctors.
.
—————————————————————————————————————————
.
……..With tax-payers money.
.
go peddle your propoganda to Karl Rove.
He’ll run with it.
iggy
November 16th, 2012
3:43 pm
Getting close to dinner time and what would go better than a box of twinkies? I tell ya what!!
A box of PIZZA from Papa Johns. Lettuce remember its “Pizza for Papa” night!!
Thomas Heyward Jr
November 16th, 2012
3:43 pm
And maybe Wingfeild.
.
lol
JDW
November 16th, 2012
3:44 pm
@Tiberius…”The difference is – I don’t care what management wanted to do. They’re management and THEY get to set the rules, NOT the workers.”
O’ dear management philosophy from Tiberiusville…I guess you can still keep ‘em in chains there!
Over here in the real world successful companies have figured out that THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN THIER SUCCESS is the quality and engagement level of their employees. The ones that don’t get the message…why they go out of business…have a Twinkie…then go learn something…
http://blogs.hbr.org/schwartz/2012/11/creating-sustainable-employee.html
Black Label
November 16th, 2012
3:46 pm
iggy
Get yourself two pizzas. Next week those same two pizzas will be .30 more.