Twinkies and abortion: Two from the ‘I hope you’re happy’ files
One from each side of the ideological spectrum. I’ll start with a smack upside the religious right’s collective head:
According to Rasmussen Reports, in a survey conducted after a presidential election in which abortion rights and the stupid statements of two GOP Senate candidates featured far too heavily, 54 percent of Americans describe themselves as “pro-choice” versus 38 percent who say they’re “pro-life.” This is in sharp contrast with Gallup’s finding back in May, in which half of respondents said they were “pro-life” versus 41 percent who were “pro-choice.” In fact, Gallup’s annual survey on the topic hasn’t found such a sharp pro-choice majority since 1995.
It will be interesting to see what Gallup finds on the question next May, after election-related passions have cooled. But to the degree the Rasmussen survey shows the consequences of changing what it means to be “pro-life,” I blame those right-to-life groups that have pushed politicians to oppose exceptions for rape and incest.
Senate candidates Todd Akin of Missouri and Richard Mourdock of Indiana probably wouldn’t have even been talking about abortion and rape together if not for this anti-exceptions push, a.k.a. the “personhood” movement. I’ve explained my thoughts on personhood a few times before, and this was yet another election that bore out my point. In fact, my point about personhood being a political loser will, unfortunately, be truer than ever if one of the conservative Supreme Court justices or court swing vote Anthony Kennedy ends up leaving the bench during the next four years and President Obama gets to nominate his replacement. The question will truly be settled for another generation, in large part because the RTL groups tried to move the goal posts before they ever made much of a kick.
So, to the degree Akin and Mourdock hurt Mitt Romney’s candidacy — and I think Romney’s showing with women, particularly single women, and younger voters suggests they probably did — the hard-line right-to-lifers have really bitten themselves. Way to go.
Now for the stubborn boneheadedness from the other side, via the AP:
The maker of the iconic U.S. snack Twinkies said Friday it is going out of business and laying off all of its 18,500 workers after a national strike crippled its operations. …
Hostess Brands had warned employees that it would file a motion in U.S. Bankruptcy Court to unwind its business and sell assets if plant operations didn’t return to normal levels by Thursday evening.
Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden, er, snacks.
Insisting on your position as a union is tricky enough in normal times. When unemployment is around 8 percent and a bankruptcy judge has authorized the company to rework some of its labor deals, you’d think the union would be wise enough to realize things could end this way.
Apparently not. Well, they sure taught those capitalists a lesson, huh?
– By Kyle Wingfield
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236 comments Add your comment
bookman parrot
November 16th, 2012
1:14 pm
as long as i have the “right” to kill off babies in the womb. i’m good. not. i just can’t understand why people kill their own flesh and blood
Skip
November 16th, 2012
1:15 pm
Kyle, how many twinkies and wonder bread slices do your kids eat? It’s you that put them out of business.
southpaw
November 16th, 2012
1:16 pm
carlosgvv
November 16th, 2012
1:03 pm
“Reporters found about this almost by accident”???? Read the article a little more closely. Here’s an excerpt you may find interesting.
“Court documents from the 2001 divorce trial were released by the state Democratic Party, which had hoped to make them public before the Nov. 6 election.” Sounds pretty deliberate to me.
Banderson
November 16th, 2012
1:16 pm
Kyle, why doesn’t Hostess still have the right to fire all the union workers and simply hire non-union workers. Is it a) because of some legal agreement they may have entered into prohibiting that, b) they can’t find non-union workers to work for the wages they want to pay or c) other? If a), then management should not have signed a contract they could not keep and if b), then it’s just time for them to go out of business. Someone else will make our snack food. If c), I’d like to hear the reason.
You Don't Say
November 16th, 2012
1:17 pm
bookman parrot
Best thing for you would be not to have an abortion. I am sure you stick to your guns on this issue and have not had one. That is great..
@@
November 16th, 2012
1:17 pm
Did the Teamster’s try to talk some sense into the other unions or is that verboten among unions? They knew Hostess would have to shutdown if the strike went into overtime.
Ken Hall, the treasurer and general secretary for Hostess’s largest union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, said the timing of the closure “could not be worse as we enter the holiday season.”
“Unfortunately, the company’s operating and financial problems were so severe that it required steep concessions from a variety of stakeholders but not all stakeholders were willing to be constructive,” Mr. Hall said in a statement.
The Teamsters have always been a pretty hard-core union. There’s reasonable and then there’s boneheaded. I’d say the Teamsters, in this instance, were reasonable.
Kyle Wingfield
November 16th, 2012
1:17 pm
Cheesy: So you’re only in favor of bailing out Big Business? Interesting…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 16th, 2012
1:20 pm
that’s exactly why they were trying to renegotiate labor deals to reflect the diminished market for their products.
“We, as your managers, are too incompetent to figure out how to sell this swill so you, as our employees, are gonna have to bite it. We’ve already taken your pensions away; now we need 8% of your base pay too.”
yuzeyurbrane
November 16th, 2012
1:21 pm
re Twinkies, you should research it more. The other villains were hedge fund vulture capitalists who saw they could walk off with more money by selling the parts of the company rather than saving it. One of the sellable parts is Twinkies. Hopefully, many of the workers will remain employed making Twinkies, a national treasure, albeit with another owner.
southpaw
November 16th, 2012
1:22 pm
If you are as big as GM.
Hostess cupcakes. Not so much
————————————————
Which is how many workers? If GM employed 100 fewer workers than the “as big” you mentioned, would they still be good for a bailout? How did you measure “critical?”
BenDaho
November 16th, 2012
1:24 pm
East Cobb RINO, Inc (LLC)
November 16th, 2012
12:39 pm
Someone posted on Jay’s blog (so it must be true right?) that Hostess gave several large raises & bonuses to execs while at the same time crying poverty.
They stole the play from Solyndra’s play book!
carlosgvv
November 16th, 2012
1:29 pm
southpaw
Reporters were not looking for this. They found it only because someone released it to the public.
My main premise still stands – namely that this is not something participants would knowingly make public. So, for every case like this we hear about, how many more will we never know about?
Verbal Kint
November 16th, 2012
1:29 pm
I suppose the 18,500 uptick in jobless claims next week will be blamed on…..Sandy.
Kyle Wingfield
November 16th, 2012
1:29 pm
yuze @ 1:21: “Hopefully, many of the workers will remain employed making Twinkies, a national treasure, albeit with another owner.”
And, probably, making less money to do it.
James
November 16th, 2012
1:30 pm
Twinkies employees had a choice between a 8% pay cut or a 100% pay cut. Union mentality.
Banderson
November 16th, 2012
1:30 pm
Has Hostess asked for a bailout or is this some sort of circle jerk thing going on?
Banderson
November 16th, 2012
1:31 pm
James – Twinkies employees had a choice between a 8% pay cut or a 100% pay cut. Union mentality.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Give me liberty or give me death. Union mentality.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 16th, 2012
1:41 pm
Has Hostess asked for a bailout or is this some sort of circle jerk thing going on?
The latter.
@@
November 16th, 2012
1:41 pm
jconservative @ 1:05:
Excellent post!
Timing and circumstance makes all the difference. Proceed with caution, not being able to predict either.
=====================
On another note. I don’t know how women can argue equal rights when fathers of the unborn are being denied their parental rights.
Doesn’t make sense to me.
Oh the horror
November 16th, 2012
1:44 pm
On another note. I don’t know how women can argue equal rights when fathers of the unborn are being denied their parental rights.
Doesn’t make sense to me.
_____________________________________
As soon as a man has the ability to get pregnant and have a baby, you will have a great point.
Let us know when that happens.
Thanks
Peace
November 16th, 2012
1:48 pm
Carlos @ 12:31–”As for strike – Kyle, did it occur to you that this many people strikeing is a serious indication of just how bad wages and working conditions may be. Looking down your nose at these strikers from your ivory tower is not really a good thing to do.”
When looking down one’s nose at UNEMPLOYED strikers, the view isn’t any better.
Centrist
November 16th, 2012
1:49 pm
The abortion issue is a low priority for many voters, and as such they tend to be in the middle on the issue – that’s why the instant polls swing back and forth. Only when there are left and right wing dogmatic statements (both sides do it) recoil reactions ensue.
The Hostess union issue may not be as black and white as it appears. When companies fail (Hostess has increased competition and due to better healthy eating habits, sales are down) there comes a point where labor is willing to go somewhere else rather than work for dwindling compensation packages. Management is willing to hang on (without such dwindling compensation packages) as long as possible. Looks like that point has been reached – the bakers must feel they have better options elsewhere rather than take another cut in compensation. I recall it was the mechanics at Eastern Airlines that finally balked and forced the inevitable liquidation.
JDW
November 16th, 2012
1:49 pm
@Kyle…”The quality of wages and working conditions can only be as good as the company’s ability to stay in business.”
When the workers would rather not work than accept them…why you go out of business. Just as you should.
southpaw
November 16th, 2012
1:49 pm
carlosgvv
November 16th, 2012
1:29 pm
“Someone”=Democratic Party, according to the article.
“So, for every case like this we hear about, how many more will we never know about?”
I get your idea, but you’re starting to see hypocrites in the same way that some of my fellow conservatives have seen socialists recently. Somehow, I don’t think Kamchak will give his usual “BOO!” to this, though.
@@
November 16th, 2012
1:51 pm
Oh the horror:
Nine months does NOT constitute a disability.
If the sex was consensual and no complications exist within the pregnancy, the father is entitled. He can sign on the dotted line to accept ALL responsibility…emotional AND financial.
My opinion, to which I am entitled!!!!!
Live with it!!!!!!!!!!
Oh the horror
November 16th, 2012
1:54 pm
“Nine months does NOT constitute a disability”
That is your straw man, I didn’t mention or imply that in any way. But nice try.
Yes you are entitled to your opinion, but the law is still the law. “LIVE WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
And make sure you let us know when a man can get pregnant.
curious
November 16th, 2012
1:54 pm
Hostess management is relieved they have someone to blame for the shutdown.
The company was going down anyway, but management will say it was due to the strike.
I predict most all of those workers will have jobs making more before this is over.
Alter Ego
November 16th, 2012
1:56 pm
Also interesting that Tasty Foods, aka TastyKake, based in union-stronghold Philadelphia, was purchased by Flowers in a similar situation. Must have been attributable to poor/greedy management there as well.
There’s no doubt manufacturers who want to survive in this country will continue to look towards right-to-work states…Unless, of course, the President’s union buddies can get that nasty little item removed from the Taft-Hartley act.
skipper
November 16th, 2012
1:56 pm
Mourdock and Akin are the types that scare people.They are on the lunatic fringe. They say stupid stuff, and cannot retract it, although they try to (ahem) “clarify” it in the news. Young folks (and some older ones, too) get scared off by this zealotry. I am an independent that leans conservative. However, the Republican Party (some, not all, but some) has gotten SO far right that its a little off track. Granted, the Dems are WAY too far left now. Perhaps the zealotry (if I may) of both sides needs tempering by a third party known ad the “Common-Sense” party. Not one of those nutty Nader/Green, etc. groups…..I mean a real group that infuses walking around-sense into its paltform. Each of the present two are fast getting away from that dynamic. The prez won again ‘coz SOME folks just thought this go- ’round the Repubs were crazier….it may change next time when there definitely will be a new prez…….
skipper
November 16th, 2012
1:59 pm
As far as Hostess goes, the unions are by and large usless. They came in YEARS ago as a legitimate voice for the downtrodden, abused worker. Now, they want it so the employees work less, get paid more, have 364 vacation days a year, and the sorriest rascal in the country cannot be fired w/o an act of Congress. This, coupled with lifetime retirement benefits that are totally unsustainable! Unions are now the “t*t” on the boar-hog…..useless!
clem
November 16th, 2012
2:00 pm
mitt must have been advising twinkie owners
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 16th, 2012
2:04 pm
Live with it!!!!!!!!!!
We already do !!!!!!!
BTW I see nobody took me up on my offer to drive them to Canada.
Offer still stands guys.
Anybody up for a road trip? I will provide all gas and tolls and provide basic refreshments.
All you need is you, your Sean Hannity action figure, and your passport.
Linda
November 16th, 2012
2:04 pm
Easter & traffic jams will never be the same.
Our son believed in the Easter Bunny for an extra few years because he knew absolutely for sure that Mom would never, ever buy the junk food that the Bunny brought that one day per year.
What else can you buy, throw in your glove compartment for a year, then pull out during a traffic jam & find it just as wickedly delicious as it would have been the day you bought it? (I heard the recipe fell out of a UFO.)
National tragedy.
Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 16th, 2012
2:06 pm
If there’s still a market for Twinkies, some capitalist will make them in Mexico and avoid the union thug harassment altogether.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 16th, 2012
2:10 pm
If there’s still a market for Twinkies, some capitalist will make them in Mexico and avoid the union thug harassment altogether.
Probably Mitt Romney
But id bet he would do it in China.
They have even cheaper labor.
He’ll make a fortune
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 16th, 2012
2:10 pm
As to the shelf life of Twinkies, I’ve never found out what that is. They don’t last more than a few days on my shelves before they’re eaten.
I’m sad for the brand, but happy in the way this went down. I suspect you’ll see a lot more of this in the coming months and years as we slide toward the Obama recession. Maybe these idiot union members will think twice next time before they take a stand they cannot win.
On abortion, I’ve written extensively and argued against my conservative friends on here regarding this issue. It’s the mother’s choice and only the mother’s choice, and she should be free to have an abortion as long as she doesn’t expect my tax dollars to pay for it.
@@
November 16th, 2012
2:15 pm
That is your straw man, I didn’t mention or imply that in any way. But nice try.
No, you didn’t. But, neither, did you stop to consider what it is you’re supporting.
Essentially, because of a man’s physical disability to become pregnant, you support discrimination. We’ll just call it discrimination against the disabled.
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 16th, 2012
2:17 pm
Maybe these idiot union members will think twice next time before they take a stand they cannot win
As I said earlier. Workers should take whatever pay they are given and just shut up about it.
How dare the ask for better wages ?
Oh the horror
November 16th, 2012
2:17 pm
@@
And you have your right to your spin. Take it up with the State, Federal and Supreme Courts.
And let us know when anything changes.
Until that time, “LIVE WITH IT”
Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 16th, 2012
2:19 pm
Essentially, because of a man’s physical disability to become pregnant, you support discrimination. We’ll just call it discrimination against the disabled.
LOL. Wow.
What a load.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 16th, 2012
2:22 pm
“How dare the ask for better wages ?”
They have every right to ask.
Management has ZERO obligation to give them what they ask for.
Because, you know, it’s management that provides the jobs.
If you want to ask – ask. When it turns into a demand – think twice.
Alter Ego
November 16th, 2012
2:22 pm
My health insurance doubles in premium cost for next year.. But on the bright side, I do get *free* contraception for the extra $200 per month. Wish I was still single
bookman parrot
November 16th, 2012
2:23 pm
To Oh the horror,
Until then, then men should not be mandated to be financially responsible or any type responsible from anybody, since they have no say to your rights. Bet you wouldn’t live with that though.
@@
November 16th, 2012
2:24 pm
Horror:
I accept Roe v Wade as settled law. Doesn’t negate the discrimination that exists within.
My solution? I don’t listen to women who argue for equal rights when it’s evident they don’t really believe in the basic principle.
curious
November 16th, 2012
2:25 pm
Hope management have jobs lined up. Maybe stockholders will be happy also.
@@
November 16th, 2012
2:26 pm
Is it too soon to go off topic, Kyle?
Oh the horror
November 16th, 2012
2:27 pm
@@
And that is certainly your prerogative. Thanks for the exchange.
@@
November 16th, 2012
2:29 pm
Heck! If you support abortion without taking into consideration fathers’ rights, I can’t support anyone’s argument for equal rights.
Oh the horror
November 16th, 2012
2:30 pm
bookman parrot
Take it up with the courts. And until that changes, stick to your guns and do not have any abortions and maybe adopt a few kids as well.
Keep up the great work.
JF McNamara
November 16th, 2012
2:34 pm
1. The full story on the Twinkies said that the Teamsters union was not supportive of the Baker’s strike.
2. Democrats didn’t call for the strike. The people in the Union did. To blame the Democrats for the ignorance of a few bakers is like calling all Republicans racist.