How the GOP can turn Obama’s ‘I won’ attitude against him

So far, President Obama and Speaker John Boehner aren’t negotiating a way to rein in budget deficits in private this time. They’re negotiating in the press, and Obama is taking the hardest line.

While Boehner has signaled a willingness to increase tax revenue by limiting and eliminating deductions rather than by raising tax rates, Obama says his idea of compromise is to do both. He wants $1.6 trillion in new revenues over the next decade, which is double what he and Boehner nearly agreed to do during the 2011 debt-ceiling talks.

Virtually all of this new revenue would come from high earners: individuals making more than $200,000 or couples making more than $250,000. Raising their tax rates and capping their itemized deductions is estimated to bring in more than $1.43 trillion. The “Buffett Rule” would tack on another $47 billion, bringing the tab to $1.48 trillion for those at the top of what’s already the most progressive tax system in the industrialized world.

Obama is so committed to his position that his spokesman says the president will veto any tax bill that leaves rates intact for the top two income-tax brackets (currently 33 percent and 35 percent). The rates for these brackets are scheduled to expire Jan. 1 and rise to 36 percent and 39.6 percent, respectively. Problem is, the current rates for everyone else are also scheduled to expire Jan. 1.

You gotta love Obama and the Democrats. They care so much about the middle class that they will let middle-class tax rates rise, if that’s what it takes to stick it to “the rich.” Somehow, though, Obama succeeded in making a majority of the electorate believe it’s the GOP that is holding the middle class hostage by insisting on keeping all rates the same next year.

It is ludicrous to claim Republicans are playing tax-rate chicken more than the president. In fact, it’s closer to the opposite, because Boehner is saying he’s willing to raise revenues, just not in the same way as the president. Obama is not only insisting on his end but his means — and saying everyone will feel the pain if he doesn’t get both.

It’s ludicrous, but . . .

It’s also brilliant politics. Obama knows voters gave him the benefit of the doubt and that he’s got limited time to take advantage of that (as all second-term presidents do, particularly those whose party doesn’t control Congress). However, he may be able to turn it into a longer-term advantage with this little two-step:

1. Force House Republicans to accept higher taxes on “the rich” before Jan. 1 on high earners to stave off tax hikes on everyone else, for which he knows Republicans know they would be blamed; and then

2. When the GOP comes back next year seeking spending cuts and structural changes to entitlements as their part of the “balanced” “compromise” Obama keeps insisting he wants, he can either tell them to take a hike or make a deal that puts all the onus for unpopular cuts on Republicans. (I’m sorry, my fellow Americans, but just to get the rich to pay their Fair Share, those evil Republicans insisted on ending Medicare as we know it…)

Some of you will say I’m making the president out to be unserious about our fiscal challenges. To you I say: No, his two campaigns and first term revealed him to be that way.

After all, that’s the only way to explain a proposal that raises an average of $160 billion more per year — when the deficit last month alone rose to $120 billion — while double-counting spending cuts such as those for ending the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (decisions that were already made and thus don’t represent new savings) and seeking to increase expand spending (er, “investments”) in certain favored areas.

What we’re really seeing here

So, to Obama, this clearly is more about good politics than good policy. The House GOP should respond in kind.

It should pass the “Buffett Rule” bill that failed to pass the Senate in April, amended to include an extension of all current tax rates through 2013, as a down payment. While the Buffett Rule is projected to raise $47 billion during the next decade if the current tax rates for high earners are not extended, I’ve seen projections of more than $160 billion in 10 years if rates don’t rise. That’s an increase of approximately $16 billion next year, and it comes from real millionaires — not Obama’s “millionaire” couples who earn $250,00 a year.

Given the support for Obama in America’s wealthiest counties, not to mention Hollywood, I’d chalk this up to a paraphrase of Mencken: It appears the truly rich know what they want, and they deserve to get it good and hard.

At the same time, House Republicans should introduce a bill outlining the deductions-cutting approach for which Boehner has expressed support. Many deductions represent subsidies that are merely located in the tax code rather than an appropriations bill, and this approach allows Republicans to talk about the importance of getting government out of private decision-making without reducing incentives to work, save and invest (by increasing marginal tax rates). I’d go ahead and include a corresponding reduction in tax rates but make clear that’s negotiable, depending on what happens on the spending side.

What might this look like? Capping deductions at $50,000 a year would, according to an analysis by the Tax Policy Center, raise almost $750 billion over 10 years, with about 80 percent of that money coming from the top 1 percent of earners. The change in the average tax payment for the three lowest income quintiles would range from zero to $12 a year. Again, this approach does not leave taxes on “the rich” intact.

Your turn, Democrats

For now, that’s it. Dare Senate Democrats not to pass, and president to veto, a bill that includes their cherished Buffett Rule, just because it also keeps all tax rates in place for one more year while the two sides negotiate further. Further call their bluff with that second bill to raise even more revenue, almost all of it from the very highest earners, in the most economically sound way. Then, explain you’re looking forward to tackling the country’s real fiscal problems next year, and adjourn.

And leave it to Harry Reid and President Obama to explain to 99 percent of tax filers why their taxes are going up so that taxes can rise even more on the top 1 percent.

– By Kyle Wingfield

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542 comments Add your comment

fair and balanced

November 14th, 2012
12:15 pm

give the tea party their wish -over the cliff!

JDW

November 14th, 2012
12:20 pm

@…Kyle…fixed your first typo…

You gotta love Boner and the Repugs. They care so much about the rich that they will let middle-class tax rates rise, if that’s what it takes to keep Grover off their a$$.

getalife

November 14th, 2012
12:22 pm

Still trying to get our President Kyle?

That is the wrong mindset.

JDW

November 14th, 2012
12:22 pm

@Kyle…” Obama is not only insisting on his end but his means ”

It’s just math…as Geithner and the rest of us constantly said as Romney pounded this dead horse…you can’t get there by just limited deductions.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

November 14th, 2012
12:25 pm

The 7.5% of 2008 voters that seceded from obozo won’t like this.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
12:25 pm

knock
knock

“Who’s there?”

Taxman



knock
knock

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
12:25 pm

JDW: Not sure which typo you meant. And “math” doesn’t work for Obama’s plan, either. He is talking about $2T in real measures over 10 years. We are scheduled to have $10T in deficits during that time.

So, as long as he’s not being serious, you might as well point out just how unserious he’s being. Maybe after that we can get something serious done.

JDW

November 14th, 2012
12:27 pm

New term…same ole Republicans so far…my guess is the top two rates plus capital gains rates are going up or Republicans will be explaining the reason we went over the cliff.

JDW

November 14th, 2012
12:29 pm

@Kyle..the typo where you try to put the onus on Obama..he ran and was elected on the principle that those rates would rise…he can and should stand pat. It is the Republicans that, so far, seem willing to have the rates rise for the rest of the population along with them…the monkey is on the back of Boner and crew.

JDW

November 14th, 2012
12:31 pm

@Kyle…”He is talking about $2T in real measures over 10 years. We are scheduled to have $10T in deficits during that time.”

How do you eat an elephant?

cc

November 14th, 2012
12:34 pm

JDW:

Exactly what part of “deficit” and “debt” do you not understand?

What Obama is doing WILL take the U. S. over the cliff, and people (like you) either do not understand it, refuse to accept it or just want the “rush” of cliff diving.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
12:37 pm

Let ALL the tax cuts expire and then turn around and sign a tax cut for those households earning less than $250,000 a year.

pbbbbbtttttttt

Native Atlantan

November 14th, 2012
12:38 pm

Wow…barely a week after the election and this is what you come up with? Obama did win….and there are very good reasons for it. Going down this path this soon seems…well, like sour grapes.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
12:39 pm

cc, there is no cliff. The “cliff” is a media term meant to scare the gullible. Most of the mandatory spending cuts are phased in over time so Congress could act at any time to stop them.

There is no cliff.

JDW

November 14th, 2012
12:40 pm

@CC…”Exactly what part of “deficit” and “debt” do you not understand?”

I understand both very clearly. Including the point that escapes you, that Duhbya inherited an annual budget surplus and turned it into a $1.3 trillion annual deficit. Obama is going down the road of restoring that balance and it will take time. A 20% bite off the top is a great start.

carlosgvv

November 14th, 2012
12:40 pm

Obama has not been braging in public about how he won. Calling this essay “How the GOP can turn Obama’s I won attitude against him” sounds like something a high school sophmore would write.

Perhaps your encouraging Republicans to meet Obama half-way and try to hammer out a compromise would be a more adult thing to do.

Cutty

November 14th, 2012
12:41 pm

‘I earned capital in this campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it.’

‘When you win, there is… a feeling that the people have spoken and embraced your point of view.’

Kyle voted for Deal, Newt, and Mitt. That’s all you need to know about his ‘opinion’.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

November 14th, 2012
12:41 pm

America already jumped over the cliff.

Now comes the crash.

JDW

November 14th, 2012
12:43 pm

O’ and cc…they said Clinton was going off the “cliff” when he raised taxes and it didn’t turn out that way…it won’t this time either…frankly my preference is to let ALL the tax cuts be restored to Clinton era rates AND spread those budget cuts around as well.

At least Obama is doing some of that rather than spouting hogwash about new tax cuts.

Jill

November 14th, 2012
12:46 pm

The Democratics will own both the recession and the inflation that will pay for the bail-outs.

They just can’t tax us enough to pay for it all.

mike

November 14th, 2012
12:47 pm

All of the Bush tax cuts should be allowed to expire.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 14th, 2012
12:49 pm

I’m not sure why the secession stuff bothered you so much Kyle.

After all that is your parties base.

The top tax rate in this country was 91 percent under Eisenhower.

Tax rates for the wealthy are incredible low and have been for some time now.

You can almost see a correlation between the top tax rates going down and the debt exploding.

Reagan lowered the top rates dramatically while in office and in 8 years he quadrupled the national debt.

Far outpacing Obama BTW.

When someone like Mitt Romney pays half the rate the average American does something is wrong.

The American people voted to correct it.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
12:50 pm

Well, we need the middle class spending $’s as best they can (middle class consumers spending money on goods and services are the TRUE job creators) so I say we keep their tax cut in place until we get the economy in a better spot.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 14th, 2012
12:50 pm

All of the Bush tax cuts should be allowed to expire.

Agreed. And that means my taxes are going up as well.

There isn’t another way.

Lynnie Gal

November 14th, 2012
12:51 pm

Same old Republican non-cooperation. You guys just don’t get it. Americans have spoken. Raise taxes on the RICH and leave the middle class (99%) tax breaks alone. Obviously, Republicans are still ready and eager to commit political suicide in order to protect the rich. Go ahead. Pull the trigger. We’re going off the cliff together.

ideasbm

November 14th, 2012
12:51 pm

These Obummmer idiots are so stupid. Very short memories. Just let pass the extension in the House and let it stall in the Senate or veto by the Bummmer….then I want to hear the pigs squeal….let they try to blame the Grand Old Party but in fact it will eventually it will come to their lame brains that it was Bummer, Reid and gang who are pushing this whole country off the cliff. I just with they could take Bookman the idiot with them.

lefty_316

November 14th, 2012
12:52 pm

A look at the election results from last week tells the story of what the republicans need to do.

1. 67% of single women voted for Obama – The GOP needs to keep their noses out of birth control. This should not even be an issue. Ever.

2. Exit polls found in Virginia (64%) and Ohio (56%), two states that recently enacted new abortion restrictions, that voters support abortion under almost all circumstances – Polls consisently find 75% of Americans don’t think Roe v. Wade should be overturned. It’s time for the GOP to jettison abortion as an issue. It will always be the #1 issue for social coservatives, which is fine, they should be encouraged to leave the GOP and start their own party.

3. Gay marriage amendments passed in 4 states – Another loser issue that the GOP needs to walk away from.

4. Stop asking candidates their views on religious issues – Instead here’s an idea: follow the Constitution. See Article VI, Paragraph 3, “no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office of public trust under the United States.”

Mr. Holmes

November 14th, 2012
12:53 pm

George W. Bush, post-election 2004: “I believe I earned some political capital, and I intend to spend it.”

The only thing “ludicrous” is the belief that Republicans will change their tune out of the lily-white goodness of their hearts. Last year they were willing to drive the country over the cliff to get their way, so why in the holy h-e-double hockey sticks should we believe they’ve changed? Because Boehner said so?

If the GOP is smart, they will take steps to ensure it does NOT turn into a game of sequestration & tax-cut expiration chicken. How many people, Kyle, are going to sympathize with those earning >$250K/year? When the president says, “I’m waiting for a bill that preserves the cuts for the middle class and eliminates them for the rich. It’s what I campaigned on, and I will not sign anything else,” how many people will line up behind him?

This whole column was nothing but a big whine about the consequences of losing an election. Well, I’m sorry, but that’s the world we live in. If the economy does what EVERYONE on the Right (except maybe Bill Kristol, of all freakin people) is saying it will do and tanks after these tax hikes take effect, well then the GOP will have a helluva platform for 2014 and 2016. Until then, DEAL WITH IT.

Sorry, just 7 days+ of Republican whining and secession talk has me worked up.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
12:54 pm

Like I said above, let all the tax cuts expire and then give the middle class a tax cut (a wash for them).

Now we are set to try to deal with the Republicans: for our agreeing to spending cuts, we now want the capital gains rate lifted to 30%.

B
O
O
M

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
12:54 pm

JDW: I think it would be a mistake for Obama to assume everyone is interested in “rates” vs. “taxes paid.” There is a less economically destructive way to raise revenues than by raising marginal tax rates.

In any case, the deficit is never going to be closed as long as GDP is growing at 1-2% a year. The GOP needs to be willing and able to explain that, and why its policies are better for growth.

mike

November 14th, 2012
12:55 pm

If I’m not mistaken, the United States is the only country in history to have a war AND a tax cut at the same time. Like I have, if people had to actually PAY for wars instead of putting them on the “credit card,” there would be such an outcry that there likely would be no more wars. At least not wars of opportunity.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
12:56 pm

carlosgvv: “I won” refers to what he said right after his first inauguration — you know, back when you think he was reaching out to the other side of the aisle. Asking for twice as much as he was asking for last year certainly indicates to me that’s still his attitude.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
12:58 pm

Lynnie Gal: Sorry, but you don’t “get it.” Raising revenues does not have to mean raising rates. What about my suggestion that they pass the Buffett Rule and propose $750B worth of deduction reductions — almost all for the top 1% of earners — suggests anything but raising taxes on the rich?

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
12:59 pm

lefty_316: We’re talking about fiscal issues here, not social issues. I know changing the subject worked during the election, but let’s not do that on this thread.

Aquagirl

November 14th, 2012
1:00 pm

The GOP needs to be willing and able to explain that, and why its policies are better for growth.

All they can produce is “wahhh!” “succession now!” and “you voters are stupid ignorant sluts!”

Yeah, throw down the obstructionist gauntlet, Republicans.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
1:02 pm

Mr. Holmes: Actually, more people on the left are talking about jumping off the fiscal cliff rather than giving in one iota to Republicans. See Paul Krugman for one. And Kristol said Sunday he thinks we ought to raise taxes on millionaires. So, maybe you should have spent less time paying attention to a small but very vocal crowd talking about secession, and more time to how this debate is actually going.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
1:04 pm

Finn: Yep, BOOM is exactly what’ll happen to the economy if you tax capital gains at 30%. If you’ve enjoyed the sell-off over the past week since the election, you’ll LOVE what happens after that.

Jefferson

November 14th, 2012
1:05 pm

Boneheaded losers want to turn against the president. Americans work for prosperity, something you missed in school.

Jefferson

November 14th, 2012
1:06 pm

Fear of money, what a novel idea…

Mr. Holmes

November 14th, 2012
1:06 pm

Oh I’ve been paying attention to all of it (my post mentioned Kristol, in case you missed it). And the administration spent so much time listening to Paul Krugman during the first term, I’m sure they’ll pay even more attention to him in the second!

And in case YOU haven’t been paying attention, Kyle, who seems to drive the Republican party these days? The “small but very vocal” fringe, or the sober-minded “realists” [sic] like yourself? You thought enough of the small loud crazies to pen an ode just to them this week, didn’t you?

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
1:06 pm

Paul Krugman is God.

Jefferson

November 14th, 2012
1:07 pm

Reasonable people can come to reasonable conclusions under reasonable conditions unless you are a republican.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
1:08 pm

Finn: Yep, BOOM is exactly what’ll happen

Relax, we’ll phase it in….

And we will set the capital gains increase to expire in…..10 years!

mike

November 14th, 2012
1:09 pm

Boehner and Obama are arguing over $1.6 trillion OVER TEN YEARS! That’s only $160 billion per year! Our federal budget deficit for 2012 will be $1.1 trillion. $160 billion won’t even make a dent in that. What will make a dent is reducing military spending to what it was when George W. Bush took office. That would save around $500 billion/yr and go a long way toward reducing our deficit.

Centrist

November 14th, 2012
1:15 pm

Obama made history by an incumbent winning a close re-election by a smaller margin than his first time. Hardly a mandate.

The Republican House is NOT going to cave on raising tax rates. This is posturing, pure and simple. Obama and Democrats either negotiate other tax changes (and spending cuts), punt further into next year by extending current tax rates/ sequestration, or they go over the fiscal cliff. I’m betting it won’t be the latter – while the more liberal media pouts.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
1:16 pm

John Q: Boehner was ready to do $800B in new revenues back in 2011, before Obama upped the ante at the last minute. He’s back to talking in those terms (everything but the dollar figure, which he hasn’t discussed this time, sounds about the same as it did back then), and Obama rejects it out of hand. The fact is, both sides are refusing to come off hard, long-held positions, and either could lead to everyone’s taxes going up.

Btw, I fail to see how my suggesting the GOP pass the Buffett Rule and propose $750B in new revenues from “the rich” somehow equals “continued obstinacy and obstructionism.” Unless in your view doing anything other than exactly and completely what the president wants is “obstinacy and obstructionism,” in which case I plead guilty.

clem

November 14th, 2012
1:17 pm

what part of marginal tax rate do you folks not understand? and folks like mitt need to pay more than 14% (likely did not pay that high on his other returns)

unless the congress is capable of doing thorough review of tax code in 1 month, rates go up and may come down for corporate and individual after tax code made contemporary and loopholes are cost/beneficial.

maybe they can do something with amt to get the revenues they need from upper income folks that could be done in short order.

cuts need to be made too, but examined in light of sluggish economy….of course mid term medicare reform necessary as well as longer term social security.

omie

November 14th, 2012
1:20 pm

Why does the GOP need to turn anything against anybody!?!?!?! Run the damn country and stop picking fights with everybody.. Stop holding on to your views so hard that you can’t see whats right in front of you…. This is still the greatest nation in the world…. ACT LIKE IT! So frustrating.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
1:20 pm

mike: Obama’s FY13 budget called for defense spending of $701B. Defense spending hasn’t been $500B below that since 1982.

And before you say something “Bush did it off-budget!” we are talking about actual outlays, not budgeted figures.

Dan

November 14th, 2012
1:20 pm

I believe this ‘fiscal cliff’ nonsense is a tad overstated. If all the tax rates increase, what is it? From 35% to 36% for the middle class and 36%-39% on the higher earners? Or in more general terms back to Clinton era tax levels. I just do not see that kind of rate increase having a dramatic effect on the entire economy. Maybe if the numbers were more like 40-50% then a recession would appear more imminent.

Another thing is that during the 90’s after the HW Bush tax increases, and then again in c1994 with Clinton’s tax increase the economy started humming right along. Fast track to the 2000’s when W Bush cut rates twice and we saw two recessions that culminated in the worst economy in just about all of our lifetimes.

One last point is that I heard the latest exit polls from last Tuesday showed strong support among all Americans for tax increases across the board. It seems the trend around the country is that loophole closures & entitlement cuts alone are just not good enough. I have no doubt that there is a small political game in place, but I do not think it is accurate to say the middle class is being held hostage when they seem ready to take on a slightly higher tax.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 14th, 2012
1:21 pm

Obozo has increased spending by about $500 billion per year above what Our President Bush spent. And yes, that includes the off-budget spending.

If you doubt me, check out Obozo’s 2013 budget, table 1.1.

It’s the spending, stupid.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
1:22 pm

JF McNamara

November 14th, 2012
1:23 pm

Rates SHOULD rise on everyone. We all dug the hole, and we should all get a shovel. I’m hoping they fail so that this happens.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
1:24 pm

Dan is on the right page!

Centrist

November 14th, 2012
1:25 pm

It’s more than just the tax rates set to expire on the tax side of the fiscal cliff:

* The Marriage Penalty would return, so that couples who file jointly would not get the same value of a standard deduction as two single tax filers

* The Child Tax Credit would drop from $1,000 to $500

* Estate taxes would again go to 55%; the exemption would drop back to $1 million from over $5 million

* Taxes on dividends would go from 15% to the tax rate that applies to your income.

* Capital gains taxes would go to 20%, plus a possible 3.8% cap gains levy on some high income earners that is part of the Obama health reform law. That same 3.8% tax would apply to dividend income as well for those at the top end.

* The phaseouts for personal exemptions would return and certain high income earners would also see their deductions limited.

* The Social Security Payroll tax holiday approved the last two years by Congress, which costs about $120 billion per year

* A patch to keep the Alternative Minimum Tax from hitting more taxpayers

* A series of business and personal “tax extenders” like provisions that give residents of states without income taxes (Florida, for example) the ability to write off state sales taxes on their federal tax form; they also include tax breaks for NASCAR race tracks, a popular research and development tax credit and more.

* Business expensing tax provisions that were part of the Stimulus law

Dan

November 14th, 2012
1:25 pm

Kyle,

I think it is also worth noting that defense spending has also been steadily decreasing since 2010.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
1:25 pm

Sorry Barry, your message isn”t getting through. Maybe you need to charge up your Obamaphone?

You realize only Cons got Obamaphones while we libs were given Iphone 5s?

mwuahahahahahaha

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 14th, 2012
1:26 pm

Remember when Our President Bush’s tax cuts “only benefitted the wealthy”?

Squeal, little pigs!

real john

November 14th, 2012
1:26 pm

Get ‘em Kyle:

Lefties apparently don’t understand basic math skills. You are dead on in your analysis. Lets see just how serious Obama is about taxes.

real john

November 14th, 2012
1:28 pm

Of course Kyle no one is mentined the payroll tax that will be expiring on Dec. 31. For someone making $50k a year, you can add roughly a $1000 to your taxes.

mike

November 14th, 2012
1:30 pm

Social Security and Medicare contribute nothing to the deficit; they have their own dedicated revenue streams, which since 1987 have taken in $3 trillion more than they have paid out in order to build up a trust fund for when the Baby Boomers retire (Social Security and Medicare Trustees Report Summary, 5/5/11).

“Social Security and Medicare’s surpluses have been invested in U.S. Treasury bonds, and these will sooner or later need to be paid back; if they are not, trillions of dollars will have been extracted from U.S. workers under false pretenses. When these debts are paid back, though, U.S. taxpayers are not paying for the retirement programs a second time—rather, they are paying for the programs (and tax cuts) that the Treasury borrowed the money from the retirement programs to pay for in the first place. Thinking of these bond repayments as Social Security and Medicare adding to the deficit is like imagining that the Chinese are contributing to the deficit by building highways with the proceeds of their investments in T-bills.

But TV journalists have frequently given the public the false impression that Social Security and Medicare are responsible for the deficit. On CBS (6/17/11), Scott Pelley reported: “Social Security consumes 20 percent of the federal budget, so it’s part of the debate over how to manage America’s $14 trillion debt. When countries don’t manage debt, the trouble reaches far and wide.”

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4384

Just thought I’d get that in there before the shouting about Medicare begins. BTW there is a great chart showing where our deficit came from and just who is responsible for it.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
1:34 pm

Dan @ 1:20: Actually, the exit poll had 13% saying raise taxes for everyone, 35% for no one, 47% for those earning $250K+.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
1:36 pm

Dan @ 1:25: Wrong again. The last time defense spending decreased from the previous fiscal year was 1998. See Table 3.1 here.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
1:40 pm

mike @ 1:30: Where is that trust fund invested, and who is on the hook for the money the trust fund lent out?

Logical Dude

November 14th, 2012
1:40 pm

Kyle: this clearly is more about good politics than good policy. The House GOP should respond in kind.

No, No, No and HELL No.

this nation is tired of all of the political games. TIRED OF THE POLITICAL GAMES.

How about doing what is good for the country FIRST. “Our first priority is to make Obama a one-term president” was one of the absolute WORST policies to be undertaken by any political party. All the country hears is “we, the GOP really don’t care about you. We only care about playing politics.”

How about, for once, the politicians actually hear the people? Do what needs to be done, and who the $#&@ cares who gets credit/blame for it?
JUST DO IT!!!!

carlosgvv

November 14th, 2012
1:40 pm

Kyle – “what he said right after his first inaugration”

So, you’re still stewing over something he said over FOUR YEARS AGO???

Carrying that kind of lengthy grudge doesn’t make you look too good.

And, if Romney had been victorious, what makes you think he wouldn’t have had an “I won” attitude?

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
1:41 pm

You’re right about the “trillions of dollars … have been extracted from U.S. workers under false pretenses” part, though.

Peadawg

November 14th, 2012
1:42 pm

“Obama says his idea of compromise is to do both”

Isn’t that what compromise is? Doing BOTH? Not just one or the other.

Good for Obama.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
1:42 pm

Logical @ 1:40: I happen to agree. But there’s nothing about the president upping the ante — doubling it to the last agreed-upon amount — that says “just do it.”

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 14th, 2012
1:45 pm

Isn’t that what compromise is? Doing BOTH?
———

No.

Is there anything else I can help you with?

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
1:45 pm

Peadawg: Silly me, I thought compromise had to do with each side giving something it didn’t want to give in exchange for getting something it wouldn’t otherwise get. That’s not Obama getting everything he wants in exchange for nothing the GOP wants (here I am talking about exclusive “wants” — i.e., keeping rates the same for the middle class is something both sides say they want).

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
1:45 pm

Hear, hear, Logical Dude.

@@

November 14th, 2012
1:46 pm

He wants $1.6 trillion in new revenues over the next decade, which is double what he and Boehner nearly agreed to do during the 2011 debt-ceiling talks.

Sounds like he’s gottalotta spending to do.

Obama makes the mistake of believing revenge is a one way street. He needs a businessman date to set him back on his heels.

I’m still attached to the idea of the GOP voting “present.”

I want the far-left progressives gone once and for ALL!!!!! Letting voters experience the consequences of a left-wing agenda would gimme what I want.

nelson

November 14th, 2012
1:48 pm

This fiscal issue should be solved soon. My investments along with 1000s of others are tanking. And if that were not enough, there is a seccession movement in several states. There is a large number of unhappy citizens. Even our highest level security is being compromised, all and everywhere there is a rising tempo of discord.
All of the above being said, it is a grand time to be a witness to history coming full circle. Every day the news is over the top. I even get up in the middle of the night so I won’t miss anything.

JamVet

November 14th, 2012
1:49 pm

When Mitt “tax haven” Romney’s effective tax rate is essentially the same as those Americans whose wealth is one one-thousandth of his, something is terribly awry.

You Republicans do not want to address this. And you have tried to avoid it for a long, long time.

Now you pretty much have to address it.

Do it or suffer yet more trickle-down consequences like those from last week…

@@

November 14th, 2012
1:49 pm

Could be Obama’s just putting on a show for his base. He’s good at that…been doing it for four years.

schnirt

Peadawg

November 14th, 2012
1:49 pm

Kyle, compromise: entitlement reform (Dems don’t want) and tax increase on top 2%(GOP doesn’t want)

Fair enough?

JamVet

November 14th, 2012
1:50 pm

Sorry Barry, your message isn”t getting through. Maybe you need to charge up your Obamaphone?

Ouch.

And LOL…

@@

November 14th, 2012
1:56 pm

I guess Obama doesn’t need Billy Boy anymore. Wonder how Bill feels about being the O-pimped one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JfZ6Z3eKqw

mike

November 14th, 2012
1:56 pm

Kyle, you’re right, the SS & MC fund has been raided by every administration and the revenues spent in the general fund. However, the United States must honor those Treasury bills. Either that or declare bankruptcy which will never happen.

Back to work. Later.

Sister Sarah

November 14th, 2012
2:02 pm

“I won” (and won again too)! Well… he DID, did he not?

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 14th, 2012
2:03 pm

Sorry Barry, your message isn”t getting through.
——–

Funny…that’s the second lib response to my message that “isn’t getting through”.

Mr. Snarky

November 14th, 2012
2:04 pm

Should he have an “I lost” attitude?
Kyle, you’re a political genius. I’m sure the repubs will follow your instructions.

JDW

November 14th, 2012
2:04 pm

@Kyle…”I think it would be a mistake for Obama to assume everyone is interested in “rates” vs. “taxes paid.” There is a less economically destructive way to raise revenues than by raising marginal tax rates.”

Maybe, but I don’t agree. I think the rates have to go up and the deductions have to be metered at least on the high end of the income spectrum. We keep gnashing our teeth about how bad the deficit is but want to ignore the fact that revenue as a % of GDP is at historical lows and is a full 4-5 points under where it needs to be. At some point we need to stop complaining and get on with it as we did in 1993.

Now for this bit…”In any case, the deficit is never going to be closed as long as GDP is growing at 1-2% a year. The GOP needs to be willing and able to explain that, and why its policies are better for growth.”

If they could do that then we would have a President elect Romney…I don’t agree with that notion and think the mere act of setting a solid path forward that reduces the debilitating uncertainty that we currently suffer from surrounding cliffs, debt ceilings, taxes, immigration etc… will be a main reason growth starts again.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
2:04 pm

I wonder if Bill is teaching the fine art of triangulation at this very moment.

John Bailo

November 14th, 2012
2:05 pm

What we really need to do is lower the taxes for those making less than $200,000 even further.

There is no reason for anyone making under $100,000 to be paying 20% of that in Federal tax…none!

Ivan Cohen

November 14th, 2012
2:09 pm

I’d get John Boehner’s “signaled willingness” in “writing” and not with disappearing ink either. Boehner switched out before, he’d do it again. I wouldn’t put it pass him.

JDW

November 14th, 2012
2:09 pm

” there is a seccession movement in several states.”

Less than 100,000 people out of 300+ million is noise level from the lunatic fringe.

GasMan

November 14th, 2012
2:11 pm

No one seems willing to comment on Kyle’s actual proposal. There are two sides to it, the policy and politics. I think it makes a lot of sense as policy.

It might be a good political maneuver but it will not work as politics for one simple reason: you have misread the mood of the American public. The Republicans were rejected, not because their ideas were worse, but because we don’t like them (uncool, judgmental, out of touch, controlling, hypocritical, you pick it). In that light, they are going to get blamed for obstructionism, so make the best deal you can and move on.

For the record, I voted for Romney.

curious

November 14th, 2012
2:11 pm

Just like our collective disgust with Congress, except for OUR Congressman; everybody wants to cut Except when it impacts them personally.

With this attitude we would have been so hopelessly in debt after WW2, our economy would have resembled Somalis’s.

JamVet

November 14th, 2012
2:13 pm

There is no reason for anyone making under $100,000 to be paying 20% of that in Federal tax…none!

Agreed.

But now that most HUGE welfare-fed corporations are paying a fraction of the percentage of of the share of revenues to Uncle Sam that they used to, the trickle downers have to get it from somewhere.

And I realize that even though they are making RECORD PROFITS, we simply can’t ask these gigantic multinationals to pay their fair share, so this is where we are.

A decimated middle class of flat-lined wages (for decades on end) whereby working families can’t even afford to pay their (outrageous) insurance premiums or send their kids to college….

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
2:14 pm

Wal Mart employees are gearing up for a black Friday strike.

This should be fun!

clem

November 14th, 2012
2:17 pm

the prez speaking at news conference shows so much more grasp of things then w ever could. he does not have a teleprompter. if repubs not so full of it on protecting the rich, i feel our country would be further on the road to recovery. go ahead put party first over country and i have no doubt who will prevail. keep listening to slant head and lumpy…

JDW

November 14th, 2012
2:19 pm

@LBB…”f you doubt me, check out Obozo’s 2013 budget, table 1.1″

Bushs last budget…spending of $3.517 trillion
Obama’s first budget…spending of $3,456 trillion

I not only doubt you, I am calling BS.

Georgia , The "New Mississippi"

November 14th, 2012
2:21 pm

Damn Kyle

President Obama has to come up with the plan, find common ground on the details, write the plan, then sign it into law………..Our Congress is useless !!!

GasMan

November 14th, 2012
2:24 pm

The only real way to get out of this hole is to grow our way out which is what happened under Clinton / Republican Congress. Of course much of that revenue was due to an overheated economy due to Internet and then Housing Bubbles which we are still getting over. Since I don’t see another asset bubble appearing to bail us out (temporarily), we need to do the responsible thing. Let all the tax rates revert, adjust Soc Security retirement ages, eliminate a boatload of corporate welfare and personal deductions, tweak Medicare, and cut defense by 10%. See how easy that is? Just piss off everyone!

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 14th, 2012
2:25 pm

Sorry, JDW, but you’re including Obozo’s “stimulus” spending in Our President Bush’s last budget year.

Nice try, but your lie has been debunked long ago.

JDW

November 14th, 2012
2:28 pm

@Kyle…”That’s not Obama getting everything he wants in exchange for nothing the GOP wants ”

You need to check that exit poll again 47% plus 13% means 60% of the country wants higher taxes on the top earners..it is not just Obama.

bookman parrot

November 14th, 2012
2:28 pm

I just can’t understand why anyone would question the glorious one in office. Must be racism. LOL.

Reebok

November 14th, 2012
2:34 pm

Obama is craving a head-on collision with the GOP because he just won re-election, the Dems picked up more seats in the Senate, and the polls make it clear that the public would blame the Repubs if there’s no deal. And why shouldn’t they? The Republican party and their media allies spent 4 years actively pulling for Obama to fail and voting NO on anything he proposed, even if it was a Republican initiative to begin with. The GOP needs to behave, smile, nod politely, and get out of this with as little damage as possible. Their saving grace is, Obama can’t kick their a$$e$ in another national election.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 14th, 2012
2:34 pm

I just can’t understand why anyone would question the glorious one in office. Must be racism. LOL.

Its not everyone but racism does play a part.

Did you happen to see the states Mitt Romney won ?

Most of them Confederate states. Traitors in the past one and all.

Coincidence. Hardly.

Obama won the American States.

JamVet

November 14th, 2012
2:35 pm

parrot, that racism angle has worked out smashingly well for you lately.

Keep up the good work…

JDW

November 14th, 2012
2:35 pm

@LBB…”Sorry, JDW, but you’re including Obozo’s “stimulus” spending in Our President Bush’s last budget year. Nice try, but your lie has been debunked long ago.

Au contraire…it was yours that was debunked…

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/29/barack-obama/obama-inherited-deficits-bush-administration/

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 14th, 2012
2:36 pm

Alan West wants another recount.

From one Gomer to another Gomer: surprise surprise surprise.

JamVet

November 14th, 2012
2:38 pm

Barry, you’re still writing about “Our President” (Bush)?!

Give it up!

That administration and its toxic legacy are killing you guys!

But on second thoughts …………… keep up the good work!

WAW

November 14th, 2012
2:39 pm

The House Republicans hold the key to their party’s future. Work the President or bury the party. Simple choice!

btw: Johnny and Lindsey ain’t gettin’ ‘nough air time. Pres does old movie “if you want it, come after me” scene. ‘Bout time!!!!!

bluecoat

November 14th, 2012
2:41 pm

His “I won attitude” Just what attitude should he have?

WAW

November 14th, 2012
2:43 pm

The House Republicans hold the key to their party’s future. Work WITH the President or bury the party. Simple choice! (with is most important! Romney just lost because they tried to “work” the President)

@@

November 14th, 2012
2:43 pm

Why Nancy Pelosi should step down as House Democratic Leader

House Democrats badly need to transition to younger leaders. The three highest-ranking Democrats in the House are 72 (Pelosi), 73 (Minority Whip Steny Hoyer) and 72 (Assistant Leader Jim Clyburn). The only way that process begins in earnest is if Pelosi steps aside, allowing Hoyer to move up to minority leader (likely without a challenge) and Clyburn to assume the whip role (also likely unchallenged).–WaPo

Because she’s an old white woman by one year?

schnirt

==============================

I could also attach myself to GasMan’s idea.

bookman parrot

November 14th, 2012
2:46 pm

To Bye Bye Cheesy Grits
November 14th, 2012
2:34 pm
My point was to say how ludicrious it is that so many can’t understand that a large many people opposed BHO on strictly ideology. Not race.
I will concur with you, that a small number voted against BHO strictly on race, but i’ll also say other voted for BHO strictly on race. Both foolish!!!!

bookman parrot

November 14th, 2012
2:48 pm

I was listening to a video clip of Pelosi. She is a big smart-ass like Biden and BHO and what seems to be so many Democrat politicians. Does the DNC teach that, or does these people just have a predisposition to be jerks with their yappers.

TRUTH

November 14th, 2012
2:48 pm

HAVE THE PEOPLE NOT SPOKEN?? DID THE PEOPLE (NOT THE “URBAN” AREAS, OR EVEN THE FAILURE OF ROMNEY’S “ORCA). THE PEOPLE. THE ELECTORATE. VOTED FOR THE PRESIDENT AND HIS VISION.

SO…FOR THE LIFE OF ME…HOW CAN THE GOP EVEN THINK THAT THEIR “IDEAS” HOLD ANY WATER WHEN THE NATION HAS CLEARLY VOTED AGAINST IT?

CAN YOU SAY….OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY?

OH, AND ABOUT THAT SECESSION IDEA.. SERIOUSLY??

cc

November 14th, 2012
2:52 pm

“You need to check that exit poll again 47% plus 13% means 60% of the country wants higher taxes on the top earners..it is not just Obama.”

So . . . if 60% of us decide to confiscate everything you own, is that OK, too?

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
2:54 pm

Peadawg @ 1:49: And I addressed in the OP why the entitlement reform may not happen if they’re done separately.

cc

November 14th, 2012
2:56 pm

“SO…FOR THE LIFE OF ME…HOW CAN THE GOP EVEN THINK THAT THEIR “IDEAS” HOLD ANY WATER WHEN THE NATION HAS CLEARLY VOTED AGAINST IT?”

I think that it has been said far better than I can say it . . .

“Do not blame Caesar, blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoiced in their loss of freedom and danced in his path and gave him triumphal processions…Blame the people who hail him when he speaks in the Forum of the ‘new, wonderful good society’ which shall now be Rome, interpreted to mean ‘more money, more ease, more security, more living fatly at the expense of the industrious.’”

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
2:57 pm

JDW @ 2:28: Yes, but I was responding to a commenter who claimed there was a majority in favoring of raising everyone’s taxes.

Cherokee

November 14th, 2012
2:57 pm

“I’ve seen projections of more than $160 billion in 10 years ”

Kyle if you expect to be taken seriously, this is silliness. You’ve seen projections? Where? Who made them? And why would they be more believable than the official projections?

That in general is one problem with right wingers – you set up your own ‘reality.’ Seems like someone as smart as you are would recognize that that was part of the problem in the recent election.

@@

November 14th, 2012
2:58 pm

In addition to the chief executives of General Electric, Honeywell and IBM, the White House meeting is set to include the heads of Xerox, American Express, Wal-Mart, Procter & Gamble, Ford, PepsiCo and Chevron.

No small business owners?

Interesting.

JamVet

November 14th, 2012
3:00 pm

“You need to check that exit poll again 47% plus 13% means 60% of the country wants higher taxes on the top earners..it is not just Obama.”

So . . . if 60% of us decide to confiscate everything you own, is that OK, too?

The classic strawman argument!

Which is a logical fallacy based on misrepresenting an opponent’s position so as to more easily refute it.

FAIL!

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
3:00 pm

Cheesy @ 2:34: Romney won 24 states. There were only 11 Confederate states … and Obama won two of them. So, it’s wrong to say “most of them [he won were] Confederate states.” Not that facts have ever stopped you before.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
3:02 pm

bluecoat @ 2:41: I am referring to the attitude he took in 2009, when he told everyone who would listen that he wanted to work in a bipartisan fashion. Everyone but congressional Republicans, that is: To them, he said, “I won.”

cc

November 14th, 2012
3:03 pm

“FAIL!”

Yes, you do . . . at most everything you attempt, but don’t let that stop you.

Liz

November 14th, 2012
3:07 pm

I hope they will take this opportunity to correct the unfairness in the tax code, addressed in the Simpson Bowles plan (treating capital gains and dividends as ordinary income, just as it done with 401(k) investors); and health care insurance; why should employees get tax free treatments, when those in the private market have to pay in post tax dollars?)

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
3:09 pm

Cherokee @ 2:57: It was the Joint Committee on Taxation in Congress, per the Tax Policy Center.

Peadawg

November 14th, 2012
3:10 pm

Kyle Wingfield
November 14th, 2012
3:02 pm

Fair enough. But that was 2009. Move on dude. Let’s focus on the (crappy) politicians we’re stuck with now and hope they get a deal done that includes both entitlement reform, defense cuts, and tax increase on the wealthy.

Peadawg

November 14th, 2012
3:11 pm

I added ‘defense cuts’ after I typed both…doh!

Jefferson

November 14th, 2012
3:11 pm

Stopped by for a laugh.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
3:12 pm

Now, what was that about setting up one’s own reality?

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
3:14 pm

Peadawg @ 3:10: “that was 2009″

True, but it would help some of us “move on” if he weren’t displaying the very same attitude right now. You don’t signal a different approach by going for double what was attainable before and, unlike then, asking to wait on everything else.

Peadawg

November 14th, 2012
3:17 pm

Ah, another compromise:

Obama stops displaying the “I Won” attitude.

Republicans stop displaying the “NO” attitude.

:)

Compromise is a beautiful thing. If only politicians could do it…

@@

November 14th, 2012
3:18 pm

Europe unites in austerity protests against cuts and job losses Millions take part in strikes, stoppages and marches on day of co-ordinated action as eurozone teeters on return to recession

Millions!!??!!

Probably why Obama’s afraid to address spending.

MO’ MONEY! MO’ MONEY! MO’ MONEY!

Things are heatin’ up in Gaza. According to Hamas, Israel has committed an act of war…opened up the gates of hell.

JamVet

November 14th, 2012
3:28 pm

Brilliant rejoinder, cc.

One that does not even rise to the level of a logical fallacy.

Just an immature inability to acknowledge the truth.

I was mildly surprised that Romney lost Florida.

I originally thought that he and Ryan were gonna get hammered because of their stance on SSI. Which is of course a huge problem for them vis a vis the blue hairs down there.

Turns out that I was right, as always! (LOL at me!)

But alas, I listened to the conservative mainstream media in the last couple of weeks and they swore that Mitt was the favorite in the Sunshine State.

Silly me…

@@

November 14th, 2012
3:30 pm

WASHINGTON | Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:16pm EST

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A computer used by Paula Broadwell, the woman whose affair with CIA director General David Petraeus led to his resignation, contained substantial classified information that should have been stored under more secure conditions, law enforcement and national security officials said on Wednesday.

President Barack Obama told a news conference on Wednesday that there was no indication so far that any classified documents had been disclosed as a result of the scandal but said he will not prejudge the investigation results.

Has our “Commander” in Chief been out of the loop or what?

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 14th, 2012
3:31 pm

Cheesy @ 2:34: Romney won 24 states. There were only 11 Confederate states … and Obama won two of them. So, it’s wrong to say “most of them [he won were] Confederate states.” Not that facts have ever stopped you before.

Meaning Romney won 9 of the 11. Strong argument you have there Kyle. And the ones Obama won have had huge demographic and are the most northern ones. Of the other states Romney won most weren’t states during the civil war I have a good feeling where they would have fallen on the issue.

Some just cant see the forest for the trees.

I try to help.

jconservative

November 14th, 2012
3:34 pm

I say that the White House will win that argument.

As Kyle points out the “Sequestration” and the “Expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts” are on the books and are scheduled to take effect. No one has to do anything. No one has to vote on anything. Everybody’s taxes are going up January 1, 2013.

But! The Senate has passed a bill to renew those tax cuts “for 98% of all Americans”. If the Republican House refuses to do the same, the president wins that argument hands down.

If the Republicans, the same Republicans who voted against the Dream Act, who voted to stick “vaginal probes” into ladies, who voted in many states to restrict voting, if those same Republicans refuse “98% of all Americans” a tax cut, just to protect the tax cuts of 2% of taxpayers, then the game is over and Republicans lose.

This is about politics not economics and budgets. The Republican’s lost this battle on November 6. As a reminder, Democrats took 69% of the Latino vote, 55% of the women’s vote, 68% of the unmarried women’s vote, 93% of the black vote and the president with the worst economy in 80 years was reelected.

Politics.

wallbanger

November 14th, 2012
3:40 pm

For taxes to be fair we just need to tax spending. What is going to happen is we will go over the cliff, and then Obama will offer to cut taxes for the middle class but not the Rich, and what will the Republicans do? What can they do? They will have to dance to his tune. He is the epitome of a politician, but he is a socialist, and the end of this won’t be good.

MarkV

November 14th, 2012
3:44 pm

It is quite a feat for Kyle to turn the reality upside down. First he argues against the tax increase for high earners on the basis of our most progressive tax system in the industrialized world, neatly ignoring that the US also has one of the highest income inequalities in the industrialized world, which has not been compensated by the progressiveness of the tax system.

One might ask: If the Republicans agree with the need for more revenue, and want to do it through capping deductions, and even argue, like Kyle does, that it would raise more revenue than the tax, AND 80% would come from the 1% earners, why are they so opposed to the modest tax rate increase for high earners? The answer is rather clear: Revenue from the tax is a certainty, while the deductions and loophole route would be up to endless negotiation and changes. To get sufficient revenue, why not add a reasonable tax reform of loopholes and deductions to the change in tax rate?

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
3:47 pm

No, Cheesy, meaning 13 of the 24 weren’t CSA. You were the one who said those states made a majority for him, not that he won a majority of those states.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
3:51 pm

MarkV: I never said “it would raise more revenue than the tax.”

Btw, the idea that “revenue from the tax [rate increase, presumably] is a certainty” has been proven wrong many times. The budget crunchers almost always overestimate the new revenues to come from a tax-rate hike, as well as the revenue “lost” from a tax-rate decrease. That’s because they use static scoring, which assumes no one changes their behavior in the face of a tax change, which is ludicrous. They defend static scoring by arguing it’s impossible to accurately model behavioral changes in a dynamic scoring model. Which is true as far as it goes. But it doesn’t mean the static scoring is correct, or even more accurate than dynamic scoring.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 14th, 2012
3:53 pm

No, Cheesy, meaning 13 of the 24 weren’t CSA. You were the one who said those states made a majority for him, not that he won a majority of those states.

Bottom line Romney won 9 of the 11 CSA states. The two Obama won was because of the Hispanic vote changing things.

Coincidence. Hardly.

Michael

November 14th, 2012
3:53 pm

Kyle maybe your next coulumn can be about teaching the Repulicans how to compromise without offending Grover or the Tea Party! They will want to be reassured that they wont lose their meal ticket jobs.

Don

November 14th, 2012
3:55 pm

The crux of the problem is that 80% of us taxpayers don’t understand how the progressive income tax works. It’s just to hard a concept for most. There is plenty of evidence in the comments here….

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 14th, 2012
3:55 pm

If a lot of innocent people were affected id almost like to see the South secede,

Within a generation the very poor South would be a third world Theocracy ruled by the Baptist Church.

It would be a great experiment that they would lose.

md

November 14th, 2012
3:57 pm

Well, we go over the cliff and I’m guessing 50% of folks will blame it on the gop and 49% will blame it on the dnc…….meanwhile, the 23 million currently unemployed/underemployed will get a lot of company…..

cc

November 14th, 2012
4:00 pm

“Within a generation the very poor South would be a third world Theocracy ruled by the Baptist Church.”

As opposed to what? A third-world socialist/communist dictatorship ruled by a “progressive”?

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 14th, 2012
4:04 pm

As opposed to what? A third-world socialist/communist dictatorship ruled by a “progressive”?

No. A first world capitalist society where no Religion is favored over the other and people are free to live their lives as they see fit with regards to race, sexual orientation, reproductive issues. The list is a mile long.

The rich ( Northern ) states with huge economies would do just fine.

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
4:07 pm

Kyle why does your byline pic look like your in your twenties but on video you look like your in late forties? Must have been taken in that Repug bubble!

cc

November 14th, 2012
4:11 pm

LeftInTheSouth:

It must be gravy stain! lineralefty doesn’t punctuate as well . . .

cc

November 14th, 2012
4:13 pm

LeftInTheSouth:

On second thought (after re-reading) . . .

MANGLER

November 14th, 2012
4:15 pm

Hello Kyle,
your 3:02 comment about President Obama wanting to work with everyone but Congressional Republicans.

Would those be the same Congressional Republicans who stood in front of a camera and said that they would make it their #1 goal to see he didn’t win a second term? Those Congressional Republicans who blocked, argued, and filibustered every single jobs bill, or bill in general, that the President put forth? The ones who promised not to work with him?

Don't Tread

November 14th, 2012
4:17 pm

They want to raise taxes to punish those evil, racist, greedy rich 1% people? I say let them. Then when the economy REALLY goes in the crapper and their entitlements aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on, they will have no one to blame but themselves.

This “raising taxes creates jobs and prosperity” idea is ludicrous (along with the “we can spend more than we make in perpetuity” idea)…let them find out first hand how far they’re stuck on stupid. Those of us who actually produce something of value will be fine.

@@

November 14th, 2012
4:18 pm

I wonder if Kyle’s noticed the change from yesterday’s column to today’s.

Yesterday the libs were his BFF. Today, he’s enemy #1.

Liberals cannot be trusted. You’re either all in or you’re nothing to them.

Give ‘em an inch and it’ll be miles to go before they sleep.

Beyond The Middle of the Road

November 14th, 2012
4:19 pm

A part of me wants us to go over the so-called Fiscal Cliff. Any sincere, real attempt to approach balancing the budget should be painful to everyone. I know the timing is bad with the economy being as weak as it is but when will the timing ever be good?

As for Obama being so implacable… it wasn’t all that long ago that the GOP was universally beholden to the Norquist Tax Pledge. And Obama won the election and to the winner goes the spoils.

Also please keep in mind that tax brackets are marginal meaning that the rate is applied for each bracket before moving on to the next bracket. So even the very wealthy would receive some tax savings if the lower brackets remain untouched.

Stephenson Billings

November 14th, 2012
4:20 pm

ObamAusterity….. you get what you vote for.

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
4:20 pm

cc, according to Webster’s
lineral
The word you’ve entered isn’t in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
4:21 pm

You really won’t admit to being wrong, will you, Cheesy? Not that I’m surprised.

Stephenson Billings

November 14th, 2012
4:22 pm

Democrats Like a Romney Idea on Income Tax

“With both parties positioning for difficult negotiations to avert a fiscal crisis as Congress returns for its lame-duck session, Democrats are latching on to an idea floated by Mitt Romney to raise taxes on the rich through a hard cap on income tax deductions.”

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49803756/

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
4:23 pm

LeftInTheSouth @ 4:07: Well, I’m 34, so I’d say it has mostly to do with your being bad at guessing someone’s age.

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
4:24 pm

Maybe you need some oil of Olay and less fat in your diet.

splavistic

November 14th, 2012
4:25 pm

Aw, Kyle, is Obama getting a little too ‘uppity’ for your tastes? You said NOTHING the last few years when the GOP was stonewalling every effort to run this country properly. NOW, when we win AGAIN, you have issues with a politician (Obama) leading a charge and not wavering on their principal.

GOP R.I.P.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
4:26 pm

MANGLER @ 4:15: The ones who said that 21 months after he took office? Right before the midterm elections? After he’d declined to work with them in any meaningful way on the stimulus or health reform but insisted on calling them the Party of No? Yeah, those are the ones.

Linda

November 14th, 2012
4:27 pm

Obama wants $1.6 T in new revenues over the next decade. That’s $160 B per year. The budget deficit was $120 B LAST MONTH!!!!!

Obama has said that raising taxes would hurt the economy in slow economic times.

Obama has acknowledged that raising capital gains taxes has never increased capital gains revenues, but that he wanted to do it anyway for “fairness.”

Obama & the Democrats are counting on their minions to be unable to calculate basic math. (That is, zeroes to understand zeroes, trillions vs. billions). Obama & the Democrats are deliberately sabotaging the economy & punishing success, playing their class warfare games.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 14th, 2012
4:27 pm

You really won’t admit to being wrong, will you, Cheesy? Not that I’m surprised.

I do when I am.

Romney won the majority of Confederate states ( 9 of 11 ). The only two he didn’t get were the ones where the white vote was marginalized because of Hispanic voters.

The other states he didn’t win in the upper Midwest would have been confederate states in 1860 as well.

From Bookman

“…I do enjoy seeing the secessionists’ viewpoints if only for the schadenfreude,” wrote Paul Hoover, of Buckhead, employing a German word for reveling in the troubles of others. “Can you imagine Georgia without federal oversight? Shudder…”

Shudder indeed.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
4:28 pm

You can always leave it to a lefty to insert race into a discussion completely apropos of nothing. See: splavistic @ 4:25. When they have nothing else, they run your motives through the mud.

Stephenson Billings

November 14th, 2012
4:29 pm

ObamAusterity…. love it! (and weren’t we called liers for saying he was gonna cut health care?)

“Obama’s 2013 budget sought to reduce borrowing over the next 10 years by about $4 trillion, counting $1.1 trillion in agency cuts already in force. In addition to raising taxes, Obama proposed to slice $340 billion from health-care programs and to count about $1 trillion in savings from ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/obama-to-open-fiscal-talks-with-plan-to-raise-taxes-on-wealthy/2012/11/13/9984cd78-2dc1-11e2-89d4-040c9330702a_story.html

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
4:30 pm

“Did you happen to see the states Mitt Romney won ?

Most of them Confederate states.”

Unless you meant “most of them thar Confederate states,” Cheesy, I think you’d have to admit you were wrong this time. And your line about “the upper Midwest [states Romney won] would have been confederate states in 1860 as well” displays an unsurprising amount of historical ignorance.

@@

November 14th, 2012
4:30 pm

Oh well….Denmark just abolished their “fat tax”. Didn’t work out as planned.

Danes went elsewhere to get their cheese. The cost was 20% lower in Germany and Sweden.

Kewl!

RW-(the original)

November 14th, 2012
4:30 pm

I believe you can check the transcript of today’s lovefest with the media and you’ll see he’s clearly holding onto that “I won” line of talk.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This redefinition of the phrase “raising revenues” to equate with raising taxes is insanity. If I sell 100 widgets a day for a dollar each and I want to double my widget revenue I can try the Democrat plan and just raise the price to two dollars a widget but I bet that won’t work very well, except in the extremely short term and then I go broke.

/db

jconservative

November 14th, 2012
4:32 pm

Kyle,

Does this mean that Boehner is in control of his caucus? I do not have a handle on this.

“Price loses House Republican leadership bid.”

jms

November 14th, 2012
4:33 pm

People will react rationally to tax increases so we shouldn’t be surprised when realized revenue is less than projected.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
4:33 pm

jconservative @ 4:32: I’d say it bodes well for Boehner. There were some heavy hitters on Price’s side, starting with Paul Ryan.

Thomas Heyward Jr

November 14th, 2012
4:35 pm

Say goodby to Washington Doctor Ron Paul…You’re too decent to be there.
And Say HELLO to America.
There’s alot more work to get done Sir.
From Todays Ron Paul’s farewell speech—————
.
.In many ways, according to conventional wisdom, my off-and-on career in Congress, from 1976 to 2012, accomplished very little. No named legislation, no named federal buildings or highways—thank goodness. In spite of my efforts, the government has grown exponentially, taxes remain excessive, and the prolific increase of incomprehensible regulations continues. Wars are constant and pursued without Congressional declaration, deficits rise to the sky, poverty is rampant and dependency on the federal government is now worse than any time in our history.

All this with minimal concerns for the deficits and unfunded liabilities that common sense tells us cannot go on much longer. A grand, but never mentioned, bipartisan agreement allows for the well-kept secret that keeps the spending going. One side doesn’t give up one penny on military spending, the other side doesn’t give up one penny on welfare spending, while both sides support the bailouts and subsidies for the banking and corporate elite. And the spending continues as the economy weakens and the downward spiral continues. As the government continues fiddling around, our liberties and our wealth burn in the flames of a foreign policy that makes us less safe.”
.
I will never forgive the Neo-cons who besmiched this statesman.

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
4:37 pm

Linda, We know who really started class warfare…..Reugs! Welfare Queens (Ronald Reagan )! Takers vs Makers (Romney and Ryan). Oh but it’s ok to deride the poor!

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 14th, 2012
4:38 pm

Remember, Kyle, the left considers anyone unwilling to bend over and take it as obstructionist.

Stephenson Billings

November 14th, 2012
4:39 pm

Hmmm, guess France didn’t learn anything from Denmark:

FRANCE GOES AFTER FATTY SNACKS WITH ‘NUTELLA TAX’

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/france-goes-after-fatty-snacks-nutella-tax

Aquagirl

November 14th, 2012
4:39 pm

There were some heavy hitters on Price’s side, starting with Paul Ryan.

A Price slapdown? Awesome. Ryan’s inclusion is the icing on the cake.

Stephenson Billings

November 14th, 2012
4:42 pm

Glad to see Reid has his priorities….

Senate Votes On Polar Bear Carcasses In First Roll Call Since September

“Congress is back in town after the election to find a way around automatic tax increases and spending cuts in January. But first, lawmakers are dealing with 41 polar bear carcasses.

In its first roll call since September, the Senate voted 92-5 on Tuesday to debate a bill to ease restrictions on hunters and fishermen and allow 41 U.S. hunters to bring home polar bear carcasses trapped in Canada due to a ban on trophy imports.”

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/11/14/senate-votes-on-polar-bear-carcasses-in-first-roll-call-since-september/

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 14th, 2012
4:44 pm

Your inability to do anything but hump my leg doesn’t amaze me at all, John Q.

Move on, Sonny.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 14th, 2012
4:45 pm

Unless you meant “most of them thar Confederate states,” Cheesy, I think you’d have to admit you were wrong this time. And your line about “the upper Midwest [states Romney won] would have been confederate states in 1860 as well” displays an unsurprising amount of historical ignorance.

Hey your the moderator.

Id say voting for Newt Gingrich displays a certain amount of ignorance as well.

Too each his own.

Aquagirl

November 14th, 2012
4:47 pm

Move on, Sonny.

Well, well, look what batch of sour grapes rolled in.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 14th, 2012
4:49 pm

The more telling graphic concerning which states Romney won was the right to work states.

You know, the ones where 72% of all new jobs were created over the past few years.

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
4:53 pm

Tiberius, the more telling graphic would be concerning which states Romney won is they are the ones that receive the most entitlements that the tea party rails against.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
4:54 pm

Tiberius and John Q: Knock it off.

tiredofit

November 14th, 2012
4:55 pm

Yes, all of those 5 dollar an hour jobs.

RAMZAD

November 14th, 2012
4:55 pm

Kyle, you have always been very capable soldier of the of the “get Obama” brigade. It is clear, Kyle, that we don’t want any Republicans as President- not now.

Your war against Obama is futile. Republican hate, propaganda, and racist pot stirring is futile. Your energies would be more well directed if they went towards telling Republicans how they may join the President to improve America.

Being part of the anti-Obama movement sullies your credential as a forward thinking journalist. you sound more like a Right Wing hack that writes at your part time job.

Sandra

November 14th, 2012
4:57 pm

Kyle,
You are really acting like a spoil sport who didn’t get his way. Stop insulting my and others intelligence about tax rates verus deductions versus spending cuts. BTW, you only have Boehner’s word about the deal last year. At least the President showed information about what they proposed. Of course, because Boehner is a Republican he must therefore be telling the truth? Try again. The Republicans have been the ones who for the last several years have been cuts, cuts, cuts and ONLY cuts to spending. Now they have a change of heart and agree to limiting deductions! Give me a break!

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 14th, 2012
4:59 pm

The more telling graphic concerning which states Romney won was the right to work states.

You mean the states where workers are prohibited from assembling and bargaining for better pay or benefits. In other words take the pay and benefits we give you and you better like it.

Wonder why corporations would move business there ?

LOL

MarkV

November 14th, 2012
4:59 pm

Kyle,

The Republicans have argued incessantly that the part of tax revenue due to the proposed increase in the marginal tax rate was almost negligible to reduce the deficit.

As for “the idea that “revenue from the tax [rate increase, presumably] is a certainty” has been proven wrong many times,” that is ludicrous. If it does not, which would mean, that those affected by the tax change would not pay any more than before, then why is anybody opposed to it? Whether the expected revenue is overestimated is beside the point. I was talking about the certainty of the measure itself, i.e., of a clear-cut tax rate number, not a certainty of the amount.

cc

November 14th, 2012
5:03 pm

“Senate Votes On Polar Bear Carcasses In First Roll Call Since September”

Good ol’ staunch Democrat, nose-to-the-grindstone Harry Reed! He knows you have to deal with the really tough issues first. Then you can move along to things like deficits, debt, taxes, unemployment, national security, GDP problem and whatever secrets his little friend whispers in his ear.

Give Nancy a call, Harry. Your Obamaphones are working, right?

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 14th, 2012
5:04 pm

JDW, you’re grasping at straws…we were talking about spending and you try to deflect the issue to deficits.

Bottom line: Obozo increased spending $500 billion above Our President Bush.

It’s the spending, stupid.

JamVet

November 14th, 2012
5:05 pm

I’m guessing 50% of folks will blame it on the gop and 49% will blame it on the dnc.

Uh no…

53% would blame the GOP congress, 29% the president and 10% both equally.

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/11/14/obama-holds-upper-hand-in-budget-confrontation/

Linda

November 14th, 2012
5:05 pm

Left@4:37, The US does not have a class system.
Class has nothing to do with income.
Class has everything to do with manners, behavior, upbringing, culture, style, taste, etc.
Anyone who tries to divide Americans by attempting to place us in classifications based on income & demonizing the highest earners basically has NO class.
It’s no more “ok to deride the poor” than it is to deride those with which you disagree.

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
5:05 pm

Exhibit B in the random playing of the race card: RAMZAD @ 4:55.

Btw, I find it odd that so many people are blasting me as a partisan obstructionist for advising the GOP to pass Obama’s beloved Buffett Rule and proposing to raise taxes, almost all on the rich, by $750B over 10 years. Some people really do protest about partisanship too much.

Dusty

November 14th, 2012
5:06 pm

Well, Kyle, mentioning taxes is like opening the door to the snarling pack. And I see they are all here. Cheesy, JDW, JamVet, Finn with a host of friends. But where is the informative Tiberius?

This talk about listening is somewhat superfluous. Obama is not going to listen to any Republican. Boehner is not on his “to do” list. The president skates into the future heading for thin ice with a 16 trillion $$$ debt on his back and we are supposed to make suggestions?

The lifeline was broken at the last election. We are on our own. Taxation with useless ;representation is the same as no representtion.

Until the president recognzies that Congress is an essential part of our government just as much as he is, we hang in limbo. a Republic without representation….a ship without a stable crew…a disinherited population….a dream drowned in debt…and no rainbow.

I.

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
5:08 pm

cc,
“Your Obamaphones are working, right?”
Compared to Romney’s ORCA app, hell yeah!

JamVet

November 14th, 2012
5:09 pm

…demonizing the highest earners…

Except that that is not what is happening.

We are deriding a perverse and pernicious tax code that gives the vast number of tax breaks, handouts, giveaways and havens/shelters to the highest earners; virtually none of which we working class Americans get.

To our elected representatives in Washington:

Lower taxes on wages/earned income. Increase taxes on wealth and unearned income.

The way it used to be in this country…

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
5:09 pm

MarkV: Forgive me for thinking this — “Revenue from the tax is a certainty, while the deductions and loophole route would be up to endless negotiation and changes.” — referred to certainty about the amount of revenue from the tax.

In any case, how does what I suggested — keeping the current rates, adding the 30% Buffett Rule rate on top of them for $1M+ earners, and capping deductions at $50,000 — not qualify as clear-cut numbers?

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
5:10 pm

Linda, yeah right! You weren’t deriding Obama? Stay classy!

JamVet

November 14th, 2012
5:11 pm

Calling Paul Ryan a heavy hitter is a bit of a stretch, is it not?

His own congressional district went for Obama…

Stephenson Billings

November 14th, 2012
5:13 pm

Doesn’t sound like Obama wants to compromise (surprise surprise)…. although Libs typically define compromise as the other side compromising their principles.

“Meanwhile, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner and other senior Democrats on Tuesday said Obama would not be willing to maintain the Bush tax rates in exchange for a cap on deductions for households earning more than $250,000 a year, a leading Republican alternative.”

Kyle Wingfield

November 14th, 2012
5:18 pm

JamVet: You mean the recent vice presidential candidate and, presumably, continued Budget Committee chairman? I’d say he still holds a lot of sway in the House GOP caucus.

Aquagirl

November 14th, 2012
5:20 pm

I’d say he still holds a lot of sway in the House GOP caucus.

Heck yeah…Just ask Tom Price.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 14th, 2012
5:21 pm

Sorry Kyle. Missed your earlier admonition. I would suggest you research who consistently initiates the attacks before spreading the blame.

And its nice to see Cheesy Grits finally admit that unions kill job creation.

A miracle has happened!

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
5:21 pm

Aquagirl nice comeback!

Stephenson Billings

November 14th, 2012
5:25 pm

For those of you wondering what will be cut via sequestration (AKA ObamAusterity)… hint, it’s not only defense….

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedStates/Local%20Assets/Documents/us_chs_Sequester%20Report_Monday%20Memo_091712.pdf

Beyond The Middle of the Road

November 14th, 2012
5:25 pm

Billings @4:42: Actually, it’s my understanding that traditionally the Senate, regardless of which party is in control, opens the session with a quick vote that will easily pass. I guess it’s an attempt to start the session on a good note. Of course, these days that’s mostly wishful thinking.

fair and balanced

November 14th, 2012
5:34 pm

I remember some president babbling in 2004 about he earned capital by winning the election and he intended to spend it as he saw fit. Of course that did t include over a trillion dollars in war funding with no new revenue and unfunded Medicare drugs while the country went in the ditch. That president got 284 electoral votes. Obama got 332 electoral votes. So he has a lot of capital to spend and unlike that babbling fool in 2004 he wants to raise revenue to help pay for prior administration’s wars and the costs of bringing our economy back from the brink. I think some guy named Roosevelt did the same thing after the Republican president before him ran the country into the ditch. Wasn’t too bad a president was he?

Thomas Heyward Jr

November 14th, 2012
5:35 pm

One last excerpt from Doctor Paul’s speech.
And eventhough Wingfeild’s knees tremble at even the remote possibility of individual Liberty…he IS showing some kind of bravery by allowing this post.
It’s never to late Kyle to embrace it.
.
From the speech————

Liberty can only be achieved when government is denied the aggressive use of force. If one seeks liberty, a precise type of government is needed. To achieve it, more than lip service is required.

Two choices are available.

1. A government designed to protect liberty—a natural right—as its sole objective. The people are expected to care for themselves and reject the use of any force for interfering with another person’s liberty. Government is given a strictly limited authority to enforce contracts, property ownership, settle disputes, and defend against foreign aggression.

2. A government that pretends to protect liberty but is granted power to arbitrarily use force over the people and foreign nations. Though the grant of power many times is meant to be small and limited, it inevitably metastasizes into an omnipotent political cancer. This is the problem for which the world has suffered throughout the ages. Though meant to be limited it nevertheless is a 100% sacrifice of a principle that would-be-tyrants find irresistible. It is used vigorously—though incrementally and insidiously. Granting power to government officials always proves the adage that: “power corrupts.”

Once government gets a limited concession for the use of force to mold people habits and plan the economy, it causes a steady move toward tyrannical government. Only a revolutionary spirit can reverse the process and deny to the government this arbitrary use of aggression. There’s no in-between. Sacrificing a little liberty for imaginary safety always ends badly.

Today’s mess is a result of Americans accepting option #2, even though the Founders attempted to give us Option #1.

The results are not good. As our liberties have been eroded our wealth has been consumed. The wealth we see today is based on debt and a foolish willingness on the part of foreigners to take our dollars for goods and services. They then loan them back to us to perpetuate our debt system. It’s amazing that it has worked for this long but the impasse in Washington, in solving our problems indicate that many are starting to understand the seriousness of the world -wide debt crisis and the dangers we face. The longer this process continues the harsher the outcome will be.
.
It really is…………….that simple.

JDW

November 14th, 2012
5:36 pm

@md…”Well, we go over the cliff and I’m guessing 50% of folks will blame it on the gop and 49% will blame it on the dnc…….”

Actually the polls show 53% would blame the GOP while 29% would blame Obama…

md

November 14th, 2012
5:36 pm

” BTW, you only have Boehner’s word about the deal last year”

Actually, Woodward published the details in his book…..of which I do believe he talked to numerous sources……

md

November 14th, 2012
5:39 pm

“Uh no…

53% would blame the GOP congress, 29% the president and 10% both equally.”

Well Am, I was using numbers from a little bit bigger poll sample…..the one from Nov 6th……but you are welcome to pick your poison.

JDW

November 14th, 2012
5:39 pm

@LBB…”Bottom line: Obozo increased spending $500 billion above Our President Bush.”

Bottom line is that is a false statement…

Aquagirl

November 14th, 2012
5:40 pm

traditionally the Senate, regardless of which party is in control, opens the session with a quick vote that will easily pass.

There’s nothing more heartwarming than bipartisan agreement on dead polar bears. Now hunters can import those pen!s bones (no kidding) and put them up on a mantle right here in the good ‘ol U.S. of A.

Peace

November 14th, 2012
5:41 pm

Why is it that the libs only mention the ‘credit card’ when referring to ‘Bush’s’ wars? Like that’s the only spending that brought us to a near $17 trillion deficit….

MarkV

November 14th, 2012
5:42 pm

Kyle Wingfield @ 5:09 pm
“In any case, how does what I suggested — keeping the current rates, adding the 30% Buffett Rule rate on top of them for $1M+ earners, and capping deductions at $50,000 — not qualify as clear-cut numbers?”

The difference is this: The tax rate change is a much more definite measure than anything dealing with deductions. It is a virtual certainty that a tax rate change, once voted in, will last for a fair amount of time, at least a few years. But anything about deductions can be changed by anybody in Congress adding a rider to an important piece of legislation for some loophole and get it approved that way – as we have seen with all those loopholes that exist in the tax code.

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
5:44 pm

“Why is it that the libs only mention the ‘credit card’ when referring to ‘Bush’s’ wars? ”

Because he hid those costs and kept them off the books.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 14th, 2012
5:45 pm

JamVet: virtually none of which we working class Americans get.
————————-

Guess who’s going to be squealing the loudest if Our President Bush’s tax cuts are all allowed to expire?

Not the rich.

The working class. And you and the other Obozo receptacles will be squealing right along with them.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 14th, 2012
5:47 pm

Obozo’s unprecedented, unpatriotic trillion-dollar deficits get charged to the very same credit card as Our President Bush was using.

If you’re still stuck on stupid, using that “unpaid for” phrase, you’re an ignorant hypocrite.

MarkV

November 14th, 2012
5:47 pm

It is rather funny – and frustrating – to see some people (namely, Dusty) complaining all the time to high heaven about the national debt, but when there is a suggestion that taxes should be higher to pay it back, it is only no, no, no.

Banderson

November 14th, 2012
5:47 pm

The Republicans need to give in on the rate issue and trade it for spending cuts. It isn’t “the” solution, but it’s part of the solution. The CBO has said it won’t hurt the economy and even conservatives such as William Kristol are saying it ought to be done. Taxes on dividends should not be increased (or increased much), as taxes have already been paid on dividends by the corps paying them (assuming the corp. owed taxes), but top rates could go back to the Bush years, when we began going in the hole. And, if you want to complain about the market the last few days, just remember, that stimulus spending is a big reason why the Dow is still up over 60% from when Obama took office. If Boehner and friends hold the economy hostage to protect millionaires’ ability to buy an extra BMW or two, then we can see things go backwards in a hurry.

md

November 14th, 2012
5:48 pm

You too JDW….

Beyond The Middle of the Road

November 14th, 2012
5:50 pm

“There’s nothing more heartwarming than bipartisan agreement on dead polar bears” LOL

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 14th, 2012
5:52 pm

MarkV: when there is a suggestion that taxes should be higher to pay it back, it is only no, no, no.
————————

Given the Democrat party’s track record on following through with their spending cut promises, Dusty’s caution is quite reasonable.

It’s the spending, stupid.

cc

November 14th, 2012
5:54 pm

“Why is it that the libs only mention the ‘credit card’ when referring to ‘Bush’s’ wars?”

Because, of course, the libs would NEVER use a credit card . . . when they have access to an EBT card!

md

November 14th, 2012
5:55 pm

“but when there is a suggestion that taxes should be higher to pay it back, it is only no, no, no.”

Some out there like me have no problem raising taxes if needed, but I have a major problem when folks start voting for others to do the paying without also offering up their own. THAT is the problem, and will lead to a very bad ending…….

Georgia

November 14th, 2012
5:59 pm

Because the track record of congress is gridlock on the debt, the deficit, and the tax rates, then it’s unlikely that any progress can be made now. Obama should focus only on Obamacare and make sure nobody pulls the plug on it. Even if it means giving the filty rich their stinking free ride.

Centrist

November 14th, 2012
6:01 pm

I like Kyle’s “keeping the current rates, adding the 30% Buffett Rule rate on top of them for $1M+ earners, and capping deductions at $50,000″.

I doubt the Democratically controlled Senate would go along with that because it would increase every single Senators’ taxes. But no doubt the first part of keeping current rates is going to happen – the House is not going to budge on current top rate, and Obama is not going to let the rates expire/rise on the middle class. Just brinkmanship negotiating for another month while the economy and stock market continue to skid.

md

November 14th, 2012
6:02 pm

“Even if it means giving the filty rich their stinking free ride.”

Explain to me how that works when roughly 50% of the population is paying no income tax……the math you suggest just doesn’t add up.

JamVet

November 14th, 2012
6:05 pm

OK, Kyle.

But in the larger picture, especially after that odd “plan” of his, I don’t think many Americans view him as much more than just another far right wing, intellectual light weight.

md, those numbers that I cited are from a newly released Washington Post/Pew Center poll.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/11/13/National-Politics/Polling/release_173.xml

I must have missed your cite!

Our President Bush’s…

Man, you crack me up with that one Lil BB.

Oh and BTW, I suspect that you are dead wrong when you wrote, “Not the rich.”

They got the lion’s share of the bennies, so they would pay the lion’s share back. Much teeth gnashing there, to be sure.

Do some research and you’ll see.

Or don’t…

BTW, Kyle and other responsible Republicans calling for the Buffet Rule to be implemented must REALLY burn your arses, huh?

md

November 14th, 2012
6:08 pm

I wonder if Obama knows his legacy is on the line…..we go over the cliff, odds are it will be he that takes the blame through the eyes of history.

To this day, Clinton gave us a “surplus”……never much mention that the gop congress had a big hand in it as well.

md

November 14th, 2012
6:09 pm

“I must have missed your cite!”

Nov 6th Am…..Nov 6th.

MarkV

November 14th, 2012
6:11 pm

md @5:55 pm
“Some out there like me have no problem raising taxes if needed, but I have a major problem when folks start voting for others to do the paying without also offering up their own.”

One more time, the US has one of the worst income inequalities of the industrialized countries. If one part of the population is having skyrocketing income, and the other part has a stagnated income, which one is to pay more in taxes, when there is a need?

mike

November 14th, 2012
6:16 pm

The hounds are in “full-howl” tonight! How is it that the Republican House has obstructed every single thing that Obama and the Democrats have tried to do since 2010? Recall that the Bush tax cuts were scheduled to expire at the end of 2010. But no, the Republicans in Congress blocked that so that the unemployed would not be thrown to the wolves. Because of the Republican House, NOTHING has changed (fiscally) since Obama took office. We’re still running the $1 trillion+ deficits Obama inherited from George W. Bush. Not only that, but we will probably continue to experience these deficits for the foreseeable future. It’s so much easier to blame Obama than the real cause.

JamVet

November 14th, 2012
6:19 pm

Hello?

A date is not a cite, md!

cite -verb
1. to quote (a passage, book, author, etc.), especially as an authority: He cited the constitution in his defense.

OK, out and about for some pre-holiday fun!

Later, peeps…

@@

November 14th, 2012
6:21 pm

The Clinton surplus was a myth.

The government can have a surplus even if it has trillions in debt, but it cannot have a surplus if that debt increased every year….which it did.

And yes, Newt used the myth to bolster his bona fides.

md

November 14th, 2012
6:22 pm

“One more time, the US has one of the worst income inequalities of the industrialized countries. If one part of the population is having skyrocketing income, and the other part has a stagnated income, which one is to pay more in taxes, when there is a need?”

And once again Mark you discount choices…….we are much more than numbers, but that is what you are trying to reduce it to.

Why should Little Johnny street thug that chooses to forgo education and instead run around the neighborhood terrorizing his neighbors get a pass on paying his “fair share” while you run down the street and take money from Dr Watson just because he has it???

I don’t get the logic…..one has to pay just because he made the better choice???

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
6:25 pm

Linda, where are you now? md is deriding Little Johnny as a street thug! Stay classy!

md

November 14th, 2012
6:25 pm

Geez Am, do I have to hold your hand and do your thinking for you too?

Nov 6th…..51% voted for Obama and 49% voted for Romney…..the biggest poll in the country.

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
6:26 pm

@@ Living in that Repug bubble eh?

mike

November 14th, 2012
6:30 pm

Funny thing about the truth. It’s like a drunk getting a cold glass of ice water in the face. It sobers you up in a hurry, huh?

@@

November 14th, 2012
6:31 pm

“If Senator McCain and Senator Graham and others want to go after someone they should go after me,” Obama said at a White House news conference on Wednesday. “When they go after the U.N. ambassador apparently because they think she’s an easy target, then they’ve got a problem with me.”

ooooooooooooooooooo, I’m impressed. NOT!

Let Hillary take the fall with nary a word, he did.

I would say Bill can’t be happy about that…..but then Bill’s turned out to be Obama’s wuss.

clem

November 14th, 2012
6:33 pm

feckless price loses today; there is hope

saywhat?

November 14th, 2012
6:33 pm

So Kyle, any suggestions on how the Democrats can turn the GOP’s “we lost, but we still won’t give the people what they want” attitude against them?

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
6:33 pm

@@ Susan Rice is the UN Ambassador not Hillary.

mike

November 14th, 2012
6:38 pm

You know, I don’t really blame McConnell, Boehner, etc. for their doggedness. If they don’t play their parts, there’s a Tea Party candidate just waiting to take their seats. Guys like McConnell & Boehner have been on the government “gravy train” for a long time now. They’ll literally do anything to keep it coming.

MarkV

November 14th, 2012
6:43 pm

md @6:22 pm

I agree, you don’t get it. All you can see is the Little Johnny street thug. Not the millions of hard-working, poorly paid people, and not the rich guys, who manipulate money and reap millions, but do not want to pay a little more in taxes.

bluecoat

November 14th, 2012
6:44 pm

Is Obamaphone same as a Romney cheat sheet?

bluecoat

November 14th, 2012
6:50 pm

My RGR down today.When does the gun confiscation begin? Talk it up.

Hillbilly D

November 14th, 2012
6:56 pm

It’s like a drunk getting a cold glass of ice water in the face. It sobers you up in a hurry, huh?

The only way to sober up is for the alcohol to leave your system (bloodstream). If you throw cold water in a drunk’s face, all you get is an alert drunk. Same with giving them coffee. Only thing that sobers anybody up is time.

mike

November 14th, 2012
6:59 pm

“The only way to sober up is for the alcohol to leave your system (bloodstream). If you throw cold water in a drunk’s face, all you get is an alert drunk. Same with giving them coffee. Only thing that sobers anybody up is time.”

Thank you, Dr. Hillbilly. I was wondering when someone would point that out to me.

md

November 14th, 2012
6:59 pm

Wrong Mark….I see it quite clear, it appears you do not. There are individuals throughout the spectrum that fall into both categories, and you want to paint them all with a broad brush…..I’m well aware there are millions of hard working individuals in the middle and lower class, but I’m also well aware that they exist in the upper class too……..you on the other hand seem to lump them ALL together as merely rich people with money that you think you are somehow entitled to………

Hillbilly D

November 14th, 2012
7:00 pm

You’re welcome.

bluecoat

November 14th, 2012
7:01 pm

Lil B the only one on here that owns an Obamaphone.Did he own it before the election? You don’t think,no he would want more than an obamaphone,wouldn’t he.

mike

November 14th, 2012
7:02 pm

Looks like I’m the skunk here at Kyle’s picnic. I guess I’ll leave for a while so that Tiberius, Lil’ Bar, I Report, cc, and all the rest can get back to howling at the moon. Fair warning: I’ll be back!

md

November 14th, 2012
7:04 pm

Totally off topic, but I keep hearing the media describing the Patreaus fiasco as ’sleeping with his biographer”…….tell me, how do they know they ever did any sleeping??

Peace

November 14th, 2012
7:11 pm

Within a few months our national debt will reach $17 trillion. Various projections put the debt at anywhere between $24 trillion and $35 trillion within a decade. All prognosticators generally agree that the U.S. is going over the fiscal ‘cliff’, regardless of what program of higher tax rates, closing of loopholes, etc. might be approved. Perhaps it would be better to take the plunge at $17 trillion than wait and do a nosedive when it hits $35 trillion. Is there some advantage to be realized in postponing the inevitable?

Dave

November 14th, 2012
7:13 pm

I didn’t read the comments to see if you updated; but, the President pretty much threw away any mandate he had in his press conference this afternoon by saying it was limited to helping the middle class, whatever that is and saying he was open to alternatives to higher taxes on rich folks. I’d love to negotiate with the Prez, he sucks at it.

Del

November 14th, 2012
7:16 pm

Good strategy Kyle. The Democrats think they have a voter mandate but when skin in the game expands and starts feeling some pain, allegiances start to crumble, particularly in politics.

cc

November 14th, 2012
7:17 pm

The Clinton “surplus” lie, as well as the other lies associated with “Clintonomics” are regularly trotted out by the Democrat faithful, paraded around the ring and saluted. People who view and listen to this show without independent verification are misled.

“The claim is generally made that Clinton had a surplus of $69 billion in FY1998, $123 billion in FY1999 and $230 billion in FY2000 . In that same link, Clinton claimed that the national debt had been reduced by $360 billion in the last three years, presumably FY1998, FY1999, and FY2000–though, interestingly, $360 billion is not the sum of the alleged surpluses of the three years in question ($69B + $123B + $230B = $422B, not $360B).”

“As can clearly be seen, in no year did the national debt go down, nor did Clinton leave President Bush with a surplus that Bush subsequently turned into a deficit. Yes, the deficit was almost eliminated in FY2000 (ending in September 2000 with a deficit of “only” $17.9 billion), but it never reached zero–let alone a positive surplus number. And Clinton’s last budget proposal for FY2001, which ended in September 2001, generated a $133.29 billion deficit. The growing deficits started in the year of the last Clinton budget, not in the first year of the Bush administration.”

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/craigsteiner/2011/08/22/the_clinton_surplus_myth/page/full/

md

November 14th, 2012
7:22 pm

“Is there some advantage to be realized in postponing the inevitable?”

I’ve known quite a few that go out and run up their debt knowing they are going to file for bankruptcy……squeeze every last dime out of that credit card and then pull the plug.

If we are going to go belly up, maybe the plan is to enjoy it while we can……freebies for everybody.

Attack Dog

November 14th, 2012
7:25 pm

Yes, Obama was negotiating more for the middle class and tried to up the ante, but Boehner knew that Cantor and the Tea Party were not going to support him on the Grand Bargain. How many remember that Ryan was a key to keeping Simpson-Bowles from moving forward. The President can recommended, but Civics 101 says that he cannot introduce any bills on the floor of the House.

Puck

November 14th, 2012
7:27 pm

Kyle, even if Speaker Boehner and President Obama had made that “deal” in 2011, I seriously doubt that Boehner could have produced the votes from his own party to carry it across the finish line. Just like I doubt he would have the votes now, if by some miracle he and Obama are able to strike a bargain.

@@

November 14th, 2012
7:30 pm

cc:

I left proof of the myth but mine was snagged. The linking process contained three of the federal treasury sites.

You succeed where I fail.

cc

November 14th, 2012
7:30 pm

“Calling the President “Obozo” is itself unpatriotic. Jus’ sayin’.”

Patriotic: Feeling, expressing, or inspired by love for one’s country.

Disliking or demonstrating a lack of respect for an idividual, even if he is the president, is not unpatriotic.

Jefferson

November 14th, 2012
7:30 pm

Time for a tax hike and some stimulus spending .

Jefferson

November 14th, 2012
7:32 pm

Md your apathy is your choice?

cc

November 14th, 2012
7:38 pm

@@:

I am sure the liberals will decry the source, but there were links within the article to Federal treasury sites, too.

One must be so very careful when trashing one of the liberal gods with the truth!

@@

November 14th, 2012
7:39 pm

It’s true that Paul Ryan voted against the Simpson-Bowles recommendations. He did so because Simpson-Bowles raised taxes while doing little to nothing about health-care spending, the biggest driver of growing deficits. However, by rejecting Simpson-Bowles, Ryan felt morally obligated to put forth his own plan, and did so—several times, in the form of his Path to Prosperity and his 2011 and 2012 House budget resolutions.

Notably, he took advantage of his tenure on the Bowles-Simpson commission to forge a bipartisan compromise with Bill Clinton’s budget chief, Alice Rivlin, on Medicare reform.

By contrast, President Obama scuttled a bipartisan Congressional deal to achieve long-term fiscal reform. A few months ago, President Obama sent a budget to Congress for fiscal year 2013, that did not bother to attempt to balance the budget, and was defeated unanimously in both houses, failing to even get a single Democratic vote.—Avik Roy @ Forbes

MarkV

November 14th, 2012
7:40 pm

md @6:59 pm

One more time -hopefully you will get it after all. I am not painting anybody with a broad brush. There are undeserving people in all groups of people. We can exchange charges about who sees what and who does not, but the evidence is in the reality of the income stagnation of the middle and lower class, and the outrageous skyrocketing of the incomes of the top earners.

And what is equally outrageous is your ad hominem attack, our accusation that I think I am entitled to anything. You don’t know me, I have not claimed anything for myself, so keep your insults to yourself.

clem

November 14th, 2012
7:40 pm

i am not that high on rice, but the attacks by mccain and graham border on cowardice. lindsay’s response to being b!tch slapped by obama is hilarious. didn’t they learn from the powell episode who was advocating for their flawed approach.

@@

November 14th, 2012
7:41 pm

When “The Shrub” (their term of endearment) was president, dissent was the highest form of patriotism.

Del

November 14th, 2012
7:42 pm

Will future presidential campaign planks go something like this…I’ll give you free stuff…I’ll give you even more free stuff….I have a history of giving free stuff…Maybe but you could have given even more free stuff and you caved to congress…no I didn’t…yes you did, I’ve always been in favor of giving free stuff, vote for me and get more free stuff.

md

November 14th, 2012
7:44 pm

“Md your apathy is your choice?”

It was in that moment…..just as coming here to waste time is also a choice.

@@

November 14th, 2012
7:44 pm

They had other terms of endearment for Bush but I can’t recall all of them. I’m not one to dwell in the well.

md

November 14th, 2012
7:48 pm

” but the evidence is in the reality of the income stagnation of the middle and lower class, and the outrageous skyrocketing of the incomes of the top earners.”

If one falls for the narrative that we have one pie and it’s split up accordingly. that bs about income disparity is bogus as bogus can be in a world economy……..google “trade imbalance and real wages” and read up on where the wages have been going…….

As for insults…..it’s merely fact…..if one votes for the guy that says he wants to take from one to give to another, then you are endorsing the practice………

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 14th, 2012
7:48 pm

Egalitarianism is so much a part of Obamanism, that they will have to pry those higher tax rates on the rich out of his cold dead hands. He cares more for egalitarianism than he could ever care about economic growth, the fiscal cliff, deficit, debt, jobs, or his legacy.

Either Boehner caves on the rates, or we go over the cliff. Barry is not interested in total revenue raised, only how he can implement punishment on the wealthy, that will live long after he is gone. A responsible president would have as a first priority getting the economy and hiring going, not ideology.

@@

November 14th, 2012
7:52 pm

About Scott Brown, Harry said: “I saw during the campaign his plea for bipartisanship. That is a big joke. It’s a travesty,” Reid told reporters. “He was one of the most partisan people that’s ever served here.”

Seriously!!??!!

61.7% of the bills Brown cosponsored were written by Democrats.

Harry’s delusional.

Linda

November 14th, 2012
7:55 pm

The Bush tax cuts resulted in record govt. revenues. The revenues under Bush were almost a trillion dollars higher than the corresponding years under Clinton. Download any of the 1st 3 tables to see for yourselves.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

Clinton’s surpluses were budget surpluses, i.e. pieces of paper. Budgets submitted months in advance of the beginning of the fiscal year are nothing more than projections. The fact is that there was not a single year under Clinton that actual revenues exceeded actual spending. More debt was added to the national debt each & every year under Clinton.

Hillbilly D

November 14th, 2012
7:55 pm

I’ve known quite a few that go out and run up their debt knowing they are going to file for bankruptcy……squeeze every last dime out of that credit card and then pull the plug.

Saw that happen when I worked in car dealerships. People would buy a new car before they went bankrupt. They usually figure out a way to let you keep a car, in court.

Jefferson

November 14th, 2012
7:56 pm

But some folks time is much more a poor choice to waste as they know it all and think everyone else is stupid, you know the GOP, a real fun group.

md

November 14th, 2012
7:56 pm

“If one part of the population is having skyrocketing income, and the other part has a stagnated income, which one is to pay more in taxes, when there is a need?”

And Mark…..they pay tax on what they make……so they DO pay more in taxes.

But you want more……right? because they have it….right? No other criteria whatsoever……

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 14th, 2012
7:57 pm

Del, re: campaigning by offering free stuff, I heard someone say the other day, something that I hadn’t thought of regarding immigration. I for one thought that the GOP should be the first to present a comprehensive immigration bill with common sense solutions, that might help attract Hispanics.

This person laughed as he pointed out that the Dems will take whatever the GOP offers and say it doesn’t go far enough, that Amnesty for 12 million is not enough, that we ought to give them free college tuition and a Chevy Volt. He pointed out you can never win a give away game with the Dems.

Pretty much what you were saying, I think.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 14th, 2012
7:58 pm

The problem as always isn’t revenue, but spending. I’ve consistently been in favor of reducing or eliminating deductions across the board, even the ridiculous mortgage interest deduction, but I would stick to just those revenue increases until Congress can price to me they can actually cut spending, not just reduce it’s growth.

I don’t trust anybody who would bald faced lie to our faces as Obama sand the dens have done recently.

md

November 14th, 2012
8:00 pm

“Harry’s delusional.”

And never held accountable for his “Romney hasn’t paid tax in 10 years” comment…..that in itself says a lot when it comes from the top guy in the Senate………and just as much about the media.

MarkV

November 14th, 2012
8:02 pm

md @7:56 pm
“And Mark…..they pay tax on what they make……so they DO pay more in taxes.”

I can see that it is hopeless to think that you might understand the term “income inequality.”

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 14th, 2012
8:03 pm

Hillbilly

I had a guy tell me he was thinking of going bankrupt, but didn’t have the money to hire a bankruptcy attorney. Attorney (officer of the court) assured him it was OK to put his retainer on his almost maxed out credit card, as it would be included in the bankruptcy proceedings. Bankruptcy, another government administered fraud, perpetrated on the creditors.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 14th, 2012
8:06 pm

“income inequality.”

I am sure Thomas Jefferson and James Madison spent many sleepless nights trying to figure out how to address that in the Constitution.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 14th, 2012
8:09 pm

Md, just stop trying to convinced MarkV of reality.

He can’t conceive of a world where the rich both make the majority of income AND pay the majority of taxes, even though that is EXACTLY what we already have here.

You’re right. He and his bunch just want more. They’ll never tell you how much more, just that they want it.

mike

November 14th, 2012
8:09 pm

2001 Rev 1,991,082 Exp 1,862,846 Surp 128,236
2002 Rev 1,853,136 Exp 2,010,894 Def -157,758
2003 Rev 1,782,314 Exp 2,159,899 Def -377,585
2004 Rev 1,880,114 Exp 2,292,841 Def -412,727
2005 Rev 2,153,611 Exp 2,471,957 Def -318,346
2006 Rev 2,406,869 Exp 2,655,050 Def -248,181
2007 Rev 2,567,985 Exp 2,728,686 Def -160,701
2008 Rev 2,523,991 Exp 2,982,544 Def -458,553
2009 Rev 2,104,989 Exp 3,517,677 Def -1,412,688
2010 Rev 2,162,724 Exp 3,456,213 Def -1,293,489
2011 Rev 2,303,466 Exp 3,603,061 Def -1,299,595

Linda, thanks for posting that link. Even though George W. Bush raised revenues, he raised expenditures even more. Even with your link, its obvious to see what he left to President Barack Obama.

Linda

November 14th, 2012
8:11 pm

The additional tax revenues that Obama touts are nothing more than a drop in an Olympic-sized sized swimming pool. They will do absolutely nothing to affect the deficit, let alone the debt. As a matter of fact, while he is touting piddly revenue increases, he is touting spending more money on jobs that the states & cities are responsible for: teachers, firefighters & police officers, as well as spending more money just for the sake of spending money. It’s not just a “wash.” Obama’s spending increases are astronomical compared to his tax hikes.

There has never been one single, solitary expense that the Obama adm. has been willing to cut, except defense. He’s both for & against defense cuts.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 14th, 2012
8:12 pm

Remember, MD, their goal is equality of outcome, not opportunity, even if it means we’re all mediocre.

Rightwing Troll

November 14th, 2012
8:12 pm

“You gotta love Obama and the Democrats. They care so much about the middle class that they will let middle-class tax rates rise, if that’s what it takes to stick it to “the rich.” ”

The “rich”, or as you wingnuts and teatards erroneously call them, the “job creators”, have made out like bandits the entire time you morons were wishing for the economy to get worse. Where are the jobs?

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 14th, 2012
8:14 pm

George W. Bush raised revenues,

Finally, a liberal admits that tax cuts stimulate the economy and raise revenues. Next, we will move onto the laws of gravity with the libs.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 14th, 2012
8:14 pm

The jobs are in right to work states, Troll.

Haven’t you been paying attention?

Linda

November 14th, 2012
8:15 pm

@@ @ 7:30, I think Kyle’s site only allows one cite per comment.

Rightwing Troll

November 14th, 2012
8:15 pm

Like, ahhh here in GA?

cc

November 14th, 2012
8:17 pm

Troll:

“Where are the jobs?”

Why, your president is busily creating millions of them! Don’t you follow the weekly propa . ., er, updates?

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 14th, 2012
8:19 pm

Troll

Read the papers and business mags, the biggest inhibitor of jobs is Obamacare.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 14th, 2012
8:20 pm

cc

Yep, he has “created” 5 million new jobs, full employment should be in about 3 months, right?

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 14th, 2012
8:22 pm

Despite what you may believe, Troll Georgia is only one of 57 – er – 50 states in the union.

@@

November 14th, 2012
8:23 pm

Linda:

I think Kyle’s site only allows one cite per comment.

I know. I was going for the step by step instructions approach.

mike

November 14th, 2012
8:24 pm

More correctly, revenues increased under George W. Bush. The economy had more to do with that than did tax cuts.

mike

November 14th, 2012
8:26 pm

Rafe & Linda & Tiberius, etc. have it all figured out. Everything that George W. Bush was right. That’s why a Republican was elected in 2008 and re-elected in 2012. Nothing to see here, move along.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 14th, 2012
8:27 pm

The economy had more to do with that than did tax cuts.

Mike is trotting out the tired old chicken or the egg argument.

cc

November 14th, 2012
8:28 pm

Rafe, I was expecting that to happen any minute now . . .

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 14th, 2012
8:30 pm

Mike,

Wrong, Bush spent us into a recession with his unpatriotic and irresponsible spending. Obama is more unpatriotic and irresponsible and trying to double down on that Bush spending and push us off the cliff. Too wrongs do not make a right. When will you see that?

Del

November 14th, 2012
8:34 pm

Can we all not just get free stuff from the government is that so bad or too much for us to ask for. After all what difference does it make if the country’s going broke, we should all live for today and not concern ourselves with tomorrow. All this talk about our children, grandchildren and future generations is just pathetic babble. Lets all vote for Democrats and follow them like lemmings over the economic cliff isn’t it easier that way.

@@

November 14th, 2012
8:34 pm

I just dropped by “Irregular Times”….to say they’re OUT THERE is an understatement. They did have one article I found amusing.

Weather the economic storm by growing potatoes. Obama has a garden.

schnirt

Linda

November 14th, 2012
8:34 pm

mike (with a little m) @8:09, Let me refresh your memory or tell you something you might have missed. The US was attacked on 9/11/01 & we went to war in Afghanistan. We also went to war in Iraq, both with congressional approval by both Reps. & Dems. (unlike the Libyan non war war).
Yes, expenditures increased under Bush. Duh!
“…it’s obvious what he (Bush) left to President Barack Obama.” It’s not obvious to me. Bush left a natl. debt of over $10 T. Does that mean that Obama is justified in adding another $6 T to it in 3 1/2 years?
Is there a statute of limitations on Blaming Bush? Is it not “obvious to see what he (Obama) left to President Barack Obama” from his 1st to his 2nd term? If Obama is unable to “fix” the economy, which he has NO INTENTION or CAPABILITY to do, will it still be Bush’s fault in 2016?

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 14th, 2012
8:34 pm

Mike, two things:

One, I have repeatedly told you that I didn’t vote for Bush and that I disagreed with many of his policies. If you can’t keep that straight and refrain from lumping everybody that has a different view than you do, I suggest you find another site where your lack of debate skills would be better appreciated.

Two, you still need to understand the term “cause and effect”

cc

November 14th, 2012
8:38 pm

Let’s see now . . .

Obama had nothing at all to do with the refusal to send aid to the American victims in Benghazi, and wasn’t told about that until after the election.

Obama knew nothing of Iran firing on an American drone in international airspace (an act of war) until after the election.

Obama knew nothing of the CIA director being the subject of an FBI investigation until after the election.

He has lied about so many things and gotten away with it that he thinks he can now lie about anything and the electorate will buy it. He is correct, at least about 51% of the electorate anyway.

LeftInTheSouth

November 14th, 2012
8:42 pm

cc, 8 US Embassy’s were attacked under W where were the investigations? Oh that’s right he and Darth Cheney refused to testify under oath about 9-11 so what good would investigations do!

Del

November 14th, 2012
8:43 pm

leftin The South, opts for anal enlargement under ObamaCare benefits.

Same as last week

November 14th, 2012
8:43 pm

The bitterness, pettiness and whining continues.

Hillbilly D

November 14th, 2012
8:45 pm

Weather the economic storm by growing potatoes.

Takes a mighty big spread to grow enough taters to feed yourself for a year, plus you have to a place to store them, too.

cc

November 14th, 2012
8:46 pm

Hillbilly D

November 14th, 2012
8:47 pm

Linda

November 14th, 2012
8:48 pm

mike (with a little m) @8:26, No, everything Bush did was not right, but minions blaming him solely for the tanking of the economy due to his policies, especially his tax cuts, has been ludicrous for 4 years. Believing that Obama has any intention of improving the state of the economy continues to be the belief of the minions, who can’t seem to see even a piece of the picture, let alone the whole picture.

Bob

November 14th, 2012
8:48 pm

JDW, congressional republicans ran on no new taxes, they won congress which means the people don’t want tax increases. But if Obama won on raising taxes why is he against the Bush tax cuts expiring ? Oh that’s right, the people that want tax increases want tax increases on someone else, they are not patriotic. If Obama has a mandate, so do repubs in congress.

Del

November 14th, 2012
8:51 pm

Good night leftin The Mouth.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 14th, 2012
8:53 pm

IN any of those embassy attacks, did anybody put forth a narrative completely opposite from the truth,leftinthe south?

Of course they didn’t.

Grow up and face facts. This administration has lied to us from day one on benghazi.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 14th, 2012
8:54 pm

cc
November 14th, 2012
8:38 pm

Madonna wishes her audiences were as fawning as that group at the press conference today. I don’t understand why the Mistake avoids the pressers so much, they slobber and fawn over him, and ask such stupid softball questions.

Don’t know how old you are but Dan Rather would have the vein in his neck sticking out and be frothing at the mouth, when he questioned/attacked Nixon at his press conferences. He just about hit GHWB on the air, when interviewing him on the Evening News. Now,it is all giggles and smiles from the fawning press.

Del

November 14th, 2012
8:55 pm

Oops meant Leftin The South but maybe he takes it literally.

@@

November 14th, 2012
8:56 pm

Left is n-a-s-t-y!

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 14th, 2012
8:59 pm

Hillbilly, this Petraeus thing is not going to end well for anybody.

Holder keeping it a secret from Obama (if you believe Jay Carney, which I don’t ) or Obama knowing about it and keeping it a secret until after the election. Add in Benghazi, and this second term isn’t starting off good at all.

Linda

November 14th, 2012
8:59 pm

Kyle, Comments like the one @ 8:34 give your blog, the AJC & our state really bad connotations to those who read from around the state, country & world.
I hereby “report this comment” without disturbing your evening with your family.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 14th, 2012
9:00 pm

LeftInTheSouth
November 14th, 2012
8:50 pm

Crude= synonymous with leftwing bloggers, who do not have the intellectual ability to communicate.

Hillbilly D

November 14th, 2012
9:02 pm

Tiberius @ 8:59

I pretty much agree with you on that. I don’t know whether Obama knew or not (I suspect he did) but if he didn’t, who didn’t tell him? Somebody is going to have to take a fall somewhere.

If Nixon taught us anything, it was the cover-up is usually worse than the crime.

cc

November 14th, 2012
9:07 pm

Rafe, I was witness to all that you describe via TV and through the newspapers. There are very, very few true journalists/news reporters left, and none of those are in mainstream television media, with the exception of the NEWS reporters on FOX (I had to differentiate between the news and the opinion that appear on FOX becuase libs can’t tell the difference!).

bluecoat

November 14th, 2012
9:10 pm

When cc was TD and Newt was still in the running,TD gave Newt credit for the balanced budget during the Clinton yrs.Now he says there was no balanced budget.Could Romney have been a student of Newt also?

cc

November 14th, 2012
9:13 pm

When bluecoat was Aquagirl, he could express himself much better via the written word.

the red herring

November 14th, 2012
9:14 pm

agree kyle— let the republicans put forth a plan that makes sense to 95% of americans and then challenge the senate and obama not to pass it. regardless of the plan they pass (if they pass one) the spending cuts should come before the tax hikes not vice versa—otherwise it will be the same old bait and switch they always pull —lucy pulls the football away one more time. obama has shown nothing but hubris since winning this election (the last one too)— to declare rice “off limits” after he marched her out there to do his bidding is ridiculous. good idea kyle—pass it up the ladder.

Linda

November 14th, 2012
9:15 pm

mike (with a little m) @8:24, So, liberals have blamed the tanking of the economy for 4 years on the Bush tax cuts & now you are claiming that the increased revenues under the Bush adm. had more to do with the economy than the tax cuts.
I’m trying to get this.
Horse. Cart. Before.
Did the economy improve despite the tax cuts & increased revenues OR did the tax cuts & increased revenues improve the economy?
What about the unemployment rates? You do know they also went DOWN after the Bush tax cuts were implemented, don’t you?
See the second graph.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Seems to me that the Bush tax cuts increased tax revenues & lowered unemployment rates. Seems to me that tax increases will lower tax revenues & increase unemployment rates. Just what the progressives have on their menu.

cc

November 14th, 2012
9:17 pm

I want to extend my aplogies to all for allowing LeftInTheSouth to pull me into his conversation, if it can be described as such. I should have ignored him/her/it.

the red herring

November 14th, 2012
9:19 pm

regarding the tax hikes/revenue increases or whatever you so choose to call them— they should be dedicated to reducing the deficit and not new spending. obama won this election by playing the old game of promising every kid in class an ice cream cone if they voted him for class president. it’s a stupid game but he plays it well and a lot of his voters take the bait. the woman who was voting for him because he gave her his “obama phone” is a classic example.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 14th, 2012
9:23 pm

I saw where PETA sued and got the Possum Drop on NYE halted, because of animal cruelty. The owner of the possum should protest by having possum and taters for NYE dinner. It is after all, legal to eat, hunt, and kill possums, but obviously not to lower them in a cage. What a country.

Linda

November 14th, 2012
9:24 pm

bluecoat@9:10, Still getting budgets & debt mixed up? Still getting budgets proposed 6 months PRIOR to the beginning of the fiscal year & budgets AFTER the end of the fiscal year mixed up?
Give Clinton credit. At lease he PROPOSED budgets, totally strange to this senate which has not passed a budget in over 3 years.
Obama’s budget did not receive a single vote in either the House or the Senate, enough proof to me to understand that he is the most radical president in the history of the US. His was not a cliff. It was a burial at sea.

Interesting constituency

November 14th, 2012
9:25 pm

Kyle,
Not getting in the debate of whether Obama’s ideas will work or not. Just wanted to point out that if you look at the posts during the day, there is a decided leftist lean to them. Makes you wonder how the people can continue to spend such time on a computer while they are at work…unless they weren’t working. Maybe at home on their ipad that was bought with tax dollars paid by those with jobs.
After 530 or so, the posts started a lean to the right, presumably as those with jobs and not dependent on a government check got home from work. I may be wrong, but it checks out.

md

November 14th, 2012
9:27 pm

“I can see that it is hopeless to think that you might understand the term “income inequality.””

I understand the false narrative you are trying to present, but I also understand that we choose everything we do……so income equality is a utopian dream…….

cc

November 14th, 2012
9:31 pm

Interesting constituency@9:25 pm:

Astute observation! Well done . . .

Archibald Leach

November 14th, 2012
9:33 pm

Kyle, did you forget that Obama campaigned on NOT extending the Bush tax cuts on folks making over 250K?

md

November 14th, 2012
9:35 pm

“so income equality is a utopian dream…….”

I guess it can also be a communist dream (except the dictators get the most goodies there too), or a union dream…..didn’t care for that much either as the slugs we worked with didn’t carry their weight and STILL got the same paycheck……….

No Mark, it just isn’t possible with a world full of individuals……..

bluecoat

November 14th, 2012
9:36 pm

Red could it be Obama gave her the obamaphone for same reason Lil’B got his?

knowbodyyouknow

November 14th, 2012
9:38 pm

Kyle, I,m glad you’re at the AJC. I,ve been reading Jay Bookheads columns for awhile. I was under the impression the AJC was all Liberal Democrat. Do you ever debate Bookman? The reason Mr, O’bama got elected was the people are enamored with him. Our 1st. black president, pretty wife, 2 cute daughters. He makes a great speech. Is good at the Bull S. promises. Hell let him tax the rich. It sure as hell will not include me. (I hope)

bluecoat

November 14th, 2012
9:45 pm

Linda now you want to give Clinton credit,before it was Newt.make up your mind.May be more out of balance than your budget.Reckon?

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 14th, 2012
9:47 pm

Georgia: Even if it means giving the filty rich their stinking free ride.
——————-

I’d hardly call paying nearly all the income taxes paid in the U.S. a “free ride”.

Why do you hate people who aren’t like you (i.e. responsibly employed and contributing to the operation of their government.)?

Linda

November 14th, 2012
9:54 pm

bluecoat@9:45, I never mentioned Newt. You have me as mixed up with someone else as you have proposed budgets, actual budgets, deficits & debt all mixed up, as do most liberals.
You basically ignored my comment except for the credit I gave Clinton. Did you not understand the rest?

Banderson

November 14th, 2012
9:57 pm

4 cents in additional tax paid for each dollar over $250,000. Republicans want to drive us off the fiscal cliff for 4 cents, the difference in an incremental rate of 39% vs. 35% for people, who, if they manage their money (which they are quite quick to recommend to others), should be able to still put bread on their table.

Jefferson

November 14th, 2012
10:01 pm

Boy that was close.

bluecoat

November 14th, 2012
10:02 pm

Linda @9:15 The horses rear goes in front of the cart.

md

November 14th, 2012
10:08 pm

4 cents? Is that all? Well then, you should be able to handle it for them……….

Morals don’t care if it’s a penny…….offer up your own tax cut then worry about someone else’ s….

Linda

November 14th, 2012
10:08 pm

Magic mirror on the wall, who’s the fairest of them all?
Not you, you socialist, Marxist, nationalist, progressive, radical liberal king or queen, whoever you think or profess to be. And it ain’t Snow White or her roommates, using her to clean & cook for them.
It’s not your highness or the Democrats who decide fairness. It’s me, the mirror, & I’m telling you, it’s the small business owners in this country, who have worked their butts off, mortgaging everything they have, engaging every family member to help, skipping sleep, time with family & simple rest, who are the most deserving members of the economy, those who have provided more jobs than the largest corporations during the most difficult times, sacrificing any & all personal rewards to promote the welfare of their employees.
Fair, my behind. Robbing Peter to pay Paul will result in Peter biting off your behind!

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 14th, 2012
10:08 pm

The increase in income tax rates is perhaps less destructive than the other increases, such as in rates on dividends and capital gains. Those who aren’t paying those rates really should just mind their own business.

Dusty

November 14th, 2012
10:14 pm

Well. looks like a nice day at Kyle’s place. Much better.

Anyway,today I had a good time reading some ancient world history no less. But it soundedalmost like the story of today!!

Remember Demosthenes looking for an honest man? Well, turns out he was one of the greatest orators in the then free and great democratic city/state of Athens in the three hundred years before the birth of Christ. Orators made the people aware of the state of their city..

Now Demosthenes was very worried about the brutish and greedy Philip of Macedonia (father of Alexander the Great) and the complacency of his fellow Athenians. He tried to awake selfless patriotism. but the golden age of Pericles had passed; public unconcern and corruption in high places combined to drag Athens down. It fell to Philip as did other city states.

Read Demosthenes. great speech The Third Philippic and realize some of the same concerns we hear today. Seems people don’t change or learn over the centuries. Almost seems like we wait until it is too late.

Hope I haven’t bored you to death. G’nite.

Linda

November 14th, 2012
10:15 pm

bluecoat@10:02, Earth shattering! You only have a few more nouns to understand.

bluecoat

November 14th, 2012
10:23 pm

dividends,capital gains,interest income should all be taxed for social security,and the income tax rate should be same.All should be treated as earned.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 14th, 2012
10:25 pm

Capital gains shouldn’t be taxed at all. Zero.

bluecoat

November 14th, 2012
10:26 pm

Linda don’t worry about the mule just load the wagon.

MrLiberty

November 14th, 2012
10:28 pm

The only strategy that will work for the GOP is to actually adopt sound economic principles and STICK TO THEM. They talk about the free market and endorce regulations of every kind (including the greatest economic evil, the Federal Reserve). There are no strategies to change the fact that no republican (except Ron Paul) can stand up and say that they support the free markets, have been voting for freedom, believe in small government, have voted for small government, etc. They are all just hipocrits. Romney had a hard time distinguishing himself from Obama because they agree on practically everything. Obama is serving out Bush’s 3rd term, and Romney wanted to serve his 4th. Both are a disaster for the nation as have been the republican and democratic parties and their policies of welfare and warfare and totalitarianism. Stop with the strategies and embrace freedom. It is popular.

bluecoat

November 14th, 2012
10:28 pm

All income should be subject to SS taxes,and income taxes.

Buzzy

November 14th, 2012
10:37 pm

How to turn Obama’s I Win Attitude against him….

I think you’ll have problems with that. It won’t work, because

HE WON.

Linda

November 14th, 2012
10:50 pm

bluecoat@10:23, proves you didn’t take Econ 101.
@10:26, proves you didn’t pass 8th grade English or participate in FFA or 4-H.
@10;28, proves you are a taker & all of the above.
Pitiful.

Linda

November 14th, 2012
10:57 pm

Obama won the battle. It’s the American people who will loose the war. Every single one of us. We will loose our country. Democrats will laugh their way over the fiscal cliff & beyond & below.
What liberals do not understand is that conservatives are not just sad that Romney did not win, but that America did not win. America lost the battle & the war. It’s the beginning of the end.

get out much?

November 14th, 2012
10:58 pm

Lil Barry – actually, capital gains should be taxes at the same rate as ordinary income, just like President Reagan did with is tax reform act of 1986. Then again, you are probably one of the modern day conservatives who believes more in Reagan the Myth, than Reagan the President.

MarkV

November 14th, 2012
11:13 pm

md @ 9:27 pm
“I understand the false narrative you are trying to present, but I also understand that we choose everything we do……so income equality is a utopian dream…….”

Thank you for confirming that you are completely ignorant of the meaning of the term “income inequality.”

ld

November 14th, 2012
11:13 pm

Anyone that believes that removing loopholes and deductions will solve the problem is delusional and not just because the math doesn’t add up — not even initially. Loopholes and deductions for the wealthiest were reduced and/or ‘eliminated’ for the wealthy during the mid eighties in exchange for a reduction in rates BUT then the wealthy hired lobbiests and put most of them and others back in. Expect that will happen again.

Old Timer

November 15th, 2012
12:03 am

Obama got his votes, now he want to dumb down the country to fit his everyone equal in the world plan, the one his FATHER was working on.

killerj

November 15th, 2012
12:43 am

This is going to be fun to watch Kyle! Let me get my peanuts and popcorn to watch the monkeys play! Ha Ha Ha

bluecoat

November 15th, 2012
1:43 am

Obama won with ‘gifts’ to some voters.Now we know where the OBAMAPHONE come from.
Linda@10:50 you are right on all three.I missed out on the Obamaphone,darn.

dagnabit

November 15th, 2012
5:43 am

Kyle: do you think Obama lost the election? Do you think at all? What is clear is Romney can’t think his way out of a wet paper bag.
Does McCain think he won the 08 election?

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 15th, 2012
6:54 am

Not a dime in new taxes until the Idiot Messiah returns spending to the level of his predecessor, which would be about $3 trillion per year.

Jefferson

November 15th, 2012
6:55 am

You will pay to play

catlady

November 15th, 2012
6:55 am

Kyle, how about the whine Romney has going on right now? Apparently he doesn’t consider his “slight changes” in opinion on important matters from the beginning of the campaign, when he was just another conservative, to the end of the campaign, when he was much more moderate, an attempt to buy votes! Poor man, he will feel better after he puts another 10,000 Americans out of work and buys his wife another Caddy.

Jefferson

November 15th, 2012
7:12 am

Romney lost because he was bad choice, you knew it going in, Santorium made it a point to tell you. Talk about “choices”

@@

November 15th, 2012
7:16 am

The Eurozone has fallen back into recession. It’s spreading.

Oh well.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
7:19 am

And the Democrats keep fiddling while Rome burns, @@

What will they do when the Obama recession hits? Never mind:

“It is Bush’s fault!”

clem

November 15th, 2012
7:20 am

most repub congressman have very few folks in districts that will be hit by higher tax rate. it’s their benefactors. as bush said at a gathering of haves and have mores “my base”

get on with it.

lostinatlanta

November 15th, 2012
7:39 am

Kyle, The title of your piece was mean spirited and divisive. I expected better from you.

stands for decibels

November 15th, 2012
7:40 am

I know this has been touched upon somewhat earlier, but…

Raising revenues does not have to mean raising rates.

I get that. I’m not dead-set opposed to a deal that would include changes to some deductions in order to yield higher revenues.

But the biggest problem for me is that legislating away this kind of “tax reform” is relatively simple and can be done through the usual horse-trading that goes on in Congress. Increasing tax rates, on the other hand, is a big fat milestone, one that we seem terrified of moving under any circumstances, and I think that it would be a huge sign of maturity on the part of the GOP (and, frankly, many Dems out there as well) if we could just own up to the need to increase those rates.

and before any noobs out there start going after me personally on this, I’ve long been in favor of returning to the Clinton-era tax rates, meaning that my own income tax load would rise, not just the upper 1%ers.

JDW

November 15th, 2012
7:41 am

Well judging from the headlines I can make a couple of assumptions about Romney/Ryan…

Romney talks like a whining loser—Romney: Obama won with ‘gifts’ to certain voters

Ryan has the fortitude to man up–Ryan: Shocked at loss, Obama won fair and square

tiredofIT

November 15th, 2012
7:42 am

Bill Kristol, for once, is right. The Bush tax cuts for the rich have to go.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-real-gop-fiasco-fairness/

JDW

November 15th, 2012
7:44 am

@LBB…”Not a dime in new taxes until the Idiot Messiah returns spending to the level of his predecessor, which would be about $3 trillion per year.”

pssstttt…Bush’s last budget spent 3.6 trillion…learn to read.

tiredofIT

November 15th, 2012
7:44 am

A capital gains tax rate (making money off money) that is lower than the earned income rate (making money off work) is just not fair. Bestowing that rate on hedge-fund managers through a specially designed loophole is just not fair. Allowing the rich to take mortgage deductions for second and third homes, or for homes worth over $1 million, is just not fair. Allowing business owners like me to take myriad deductions that our employees cannot take is just not fair. But, most of all, allowing the wealthy to pay very low tax rates while interest on the war debt accumulates, deficits continue, and middle-class incomes deteriorate is just not fair.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-real-gop-fiasco-fairness/

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 15th, 2012
7:45 am

tiredofIT: Grow up!
———–

You were close. What you and the Democrat rabble need to do is “pay up”. Start paying something toward the funding of your government.

Moon Mullins

November 15th, 2012
7:55 am

Kyle, it’s not just an “I won” attitude — it’s a REALITY! Obama sits in the Oval Office and will for the next four years. It’s REALITY nor a mere ATTITUDE!

JDW

November 15th, 2012
7:57 am

@Raft…”George W. Bush raised revenues…Finally, a liberal admits that tax cuts stimulate the economy and raise revenues. Next, we will move onto the laws of gravity with the libs.”

Anyone that admits such a thing is plan wrong…below are US revenues in 2005 dollars…

2000 Clintons last year and the baseline…2,309.2

2001…2,214.3
2002…2,027.9
2003…1,900.5
2004…1,949.3
2005…2,153.6
2006…2,324.6
2007…2,413.1
2008…2,288.1
2009…1,899.0
2010…1,927.9
2011…1,998.7

As you can see revenues have YET to recover from Duhbya’s folly and only in 2006 and 2007 did they reach parity.

On the other hand hand revenues ACTUALLY grown say 3% a years this is what today would have looked like…

2000…2,309.2
2001…2,378.5
2002…2,449.8
2003…2,523.3
2004…2,599.0
2005…2,677.0
2006…2,757.3
2007…2,840.0
2008…2,925.2
2009…3,013.0
2010…3,103.4
2011…3,196.5

Cutting rates from 70% to 39% might, and note I say might because the data doesn’t support it, have had a positive impact. Cutting them further is pure folly and has cost us dearly.

cc

November 15th, 2012
7:59 am

“It’s REALITY nor a mere ATTITUDE!”

He was only reelected as the president by a slim margin, he was NOT crowned as the King of America.

JDW

November 15th, 2012
8:05 am

@cc…”He was only reelected as the president by a slim margin”

332 to 205 is NOT a SLIM margin and while he is not King he is expected to enact or try to enact the policies on which he ran. One of which is raising the tax rates and overall taxes on the wealthy.

rwcole

November 15th, 2012
8:06 am

Kyle, you’re going to have to explain your protection of the mooching millionaires to your kids some day. Ouch!!

clem

November 15th, 2012
8:07 am

get mitt to release his tax returns. they would be roadmap on how to reform tax system.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
8:11 am

“332 to 205 is NOT a SLIM margin”

Except that if only 410,00 votes had swapped in only 4 states, Obama wouldn’t have been elected.

The Electoral College gets you into office – it isn’t an accurate indicator of how close an election actually was, JDW.

But keep hanging your hat on statistics that don’t have any meaning in real arguments..

MarkV

November 15th, 2012
8:15 am

md @6:59 pm
“……..you on the other hand seem to lump them ALL together as merely rich people with money that you think you are somehow entitled to………”
md @7:48 pm
“if one votes for the guy that says he wants to take from one to give to another, then you are endorsing the practice………”

It is pointless to argue with someone who is incapable of elementary logic, like md.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 15th, 2012
8:16 am

As JDW just showed, tax revenues increased after the Bush tax cuts were implemented in 2003. Somehow she fails to recognize that recessions, like the Dodd-Frank recession of 2008, cause revenues to drop due to lower economic activity.

Bush’s tax cuts increased revenue, increased growth, and lowered unemployment.

Thanks, JDW!

cc

November 15th, 2012
8:26 am

It is difficult to unite most of the populace of any nation behind a noble, uplifting cause. JFK was successful in this effort with the space program and the moon landing. This endeavor did not truly unite nearly all Americans in the early, tedious preparations of development and testing, but bore fruit with the subsequent sub-orbital and orbital flights. By the time the moon missions began, nearly every American was solidly behind the space program.

A much easier task for a nation’s leader is to develop a point of focus for the majority of the populace to dislike or even hate. One percent of the population (actually more than one percent) is a small number to write off in the cause of unity and the redistribution of wealth. Even though exit polls showed only 47% of the voters agreed with Obama, this issue will be hammered again and again until that number grows. No one is asking this question, “If Obama gets his way with the 1%, who will be next?” A man named Adolph Hitler was very effective at focusing the attention of the German population on the Jews as the source of Germany’s economic problems.

A large percentage of Obama’s supporters and voters enjoy the largesse of government funded by the taxpayers and borrowed money. They are akin to a family with one milk cow. For years they enjoy the milk, cream and butter derived from that milk cow. They decide that steak would be better and the cow is slaughtered for the meat. When the meat is gone, there is nothing left to eat.

Hold firm, Congressmen! Do not let the ignorant and stupid slaughter the cow!

Will YOUR group be the NEXT target?

Thomas Heyward Jr

November 15th, 2012
8:31 am

cc

November 15th, 2012
8:26 am

It is difficult to unite most of the populace of any nation behind a noble, uplifting cause. JFK was successful in this effort with the space program and the moon landing. This endeavor did not truly unite nearly all Americans in the early, tedious preparations of development and testing, but bore fruit with the subsequent sub-orbital and orbital flights. By the time the moon missions began, nearly every American was solidly behind the space program.

A much easier task for a nation’s leader is to develop a point of focus for the majority of the populace to dislike or even hate. One percent of the population (actually more than one percent) is a small number to write off in the cause of unity and the redistribution of wealth. Even though exit polls showed only 47% of the voters agreed with Obama, this issue will be hammered again and again until that number grows. No one is asking this question, “If Obama gets his way with the 1%, who will be next?” A man named Adolph Hitler was very effective at focusing the attention of the German population on the Jews as the source of Germany’s economic problems.

A large percentage of Obama’s supporters and voters enjoy the largesse of government funded by the taxpayers and borrowed money. They are akin to a family with one milk cow. For years they enjoy the milk, cream and butter derived from that milk cow. They decide that steak would be better and the cow is slaughtered for the meat. When the meat is gone, there is nothing left to eat.

Hold firm, Congressmen! Do not let the ignorant and stupid slaughter the cow!

Will YOUR group be the NEXT target?
—————————————————————————–
.
Good screed and all but…………if you’re counting on the GOP to save your milk cow then you’re holding on to a dryed up tit.
.
lol

Jeff

November 15th, 2012
8:47 am

Let me see if I understand your position Mr. Wingfield. Gov. Romney proposed lowering tax rates and capping deductions. Pres. Obama proposed raising tax rates on incomes above 250,000. Your idea of a compromise is to go with Gov. Romney’s plan, despite the electorate rejecting that plan.
I guess you accept the GOP definition of “compromise” which seems to be that compromise happens when Democrats reject their own proposals and accept ours.
By the way, your own proposal raises $91 billion per year. (The high end estimates of the Buffet rule plus the capping of the deductions.) Yet you reject the Obama plan that raises $160B per year as being inadequate.
Throwing out a bunch of numbers combined with indignant rhetoric is hardly a substitute for thoughtful commentary.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 15th, 2012
8:55 am

Eurozone back in recession in Q3

How is that austerity working out for you?

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 15th, 2012
8:59 am

Dodd-Frank recession of 2008

Might want to switch news channels if you think there was anything called the “Dodd-Frank” back in 2008.

Fox News strikes again? Oh yeah. Fox News: Turning America into a bunch of yahoos as fast as we can.

BHG

November 15th, 2012
9:07 am

Instead of raising taxes across the board, why not allow the IRS to take donations? I’m sure Buffett and all these Hollywood millionaires who insist that they’re not paying enough would be more than happy to contribute extra if given the opportunity.

Meanwhile, those of us who prefer to donate our money to other non-profits would still be free to do so. The entire point of deductions for charitable donations is to allow private organizations to fulfill roles that the government cannot. (Except when the current administration has decided that there is no role that it cannot and should not fill.)

tiredofIT

November 15th, 2012
9:07 am

Lil’ Barry Bailout – OBAMAPHONE!!!
November 15th, 2012
7:45 am

tiredofIT: Grow up!
———–

You were close. What you and the Democrat rabble need to do is “pay up”. Start paying something toward the funding of your government.
++
Don’t worry, I pay my share.

JDW

November 15th, 2012
9:09 am

Tiberius…”Except that if only 410,00 votes had swapped in only 4 states, Obama wouldn’t have been elected.”

That is the sort of argument I expect to hear losers make…check out those demographics. Without significant change todays Republican Party won’t come any closer.

JDW

November 15th, 2012
9:11 am

@LBB…critical thinking is not your strong suit is it? I am guessing that you went to the same math class the Romney pollsters attended.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 15th, 2012
9:13 am

439,000 new jobless claims this week, up from an unexpected low jobless claim last week of 334,000. How could that be? Lets see, what happened? We expected 375,000, normally the “experts” are off, only 10,000 or so, so we are left to wonder.

Obamanism—- ain’t it wonderful?

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 15th, 2012
9:18 am

Why don’t we just have the alleged majority of folks in favor of higher taxes pay them?

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 15th, 2012
9:19 am

BHG, I agree, those who are in favor of not reducing spending should have a telethon or pledge drive. They could get Geo Clooney to host with appearances from Madonna, the Ditsy Chicks, Springsteen, etc and take pledges. Probably raise more than the 80B he wants to confiscate from the people making $200K and up.

Kyle Wingfield

November 15th, 2012
9:19 am

LeftInTheSouth is finished here.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 15th, 2012
9:23 am

Thanks Kyle!

iggy

November 15th, 2012
9:24 am

Since Obamas second coranation the DJI have dropped 714.80 points but Im sure it has nothing to do with him or his policies.

Better increase those 401K contributions to offset Obamas impending tax increase.

cc

November 15th, 2012
9:26 am

Rafe, you know what that means, don’t you? We’ll learn this week that unemployment has now dropped to 7.5%!

cc

November 15th, 2012
9:28 am

Kyle@9:19 am:

Thanks . . . and good riddance!

Glenn

November 15th, 2012
9:28 am

Turn his I won attitude against him ? You could remind him that he is just a silly black man . Your party isn’t getting beaten , its imploding . Well at least Bobby Jindal is aware . I guess now Mitt who was wrong about the 47 percent is now right . The perfect exit for that incredibly fake man . If he is even a man .

cc

November 15th, 2012
9:31 am

Finn:

At what time must you leave the keyboard to actually do some work?

cc

November 15th, 2012
9:33 am

“You could remind him that he is just a silly black man .”

RACE ALERT AT 9:28 AM!

iggy

November 15th, 2012
9:34 am

“mooching millionaires” Oh brother. If not for those millionaires most people would not have a job, period.

You commies are really out to lunch.

Glenn

November 15th, 2012
9:36 am

cc

Nice to know sarcasm hasn’t flown right over you .

cc

November 15th, 2012
9:39 am

LBB:

“Why don’t we just have the alleged majority of folks in favor of higher taxes pay them?”

Why don’t we just have the alleged majority of folks in favor of higher taxes stop milking the system, get a job (IF they can find one!) and actually PAY SOME TAXES?

Glenn

November 15th, 2012
9:39 am

Yeah cc

Thats racism . And when your backward pundits call the President Osama thats just because they are concerned about terror . You are part of the implosion cc .

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 15th, 2012
9:46 am

“mooching millionaires” Oh brother. If not for those millionaires most people would not have a job, period.

Yes thank you thank you sir.

Oh lordy what would I ever do without some millionaire to look after me.

You see the rich are the only ones to be trusted with money. They are the “ruling class”

They must be given every advantage. For some like Mitt Romney they must even pay half the tax rate most Americans do. The rich must be protected at all costs.

Now a .50 free lunch program for poor school kids.. Well we can get rid of that.

But people like Mitt Romney must under no circumstances pay higher taxes.

Im sure if we let the rich just have all the money some of it will trickle down to us.

iggy

November 15th, 2012
9:46 am

Dont forget tomorrow is “Pizza for Papa” Friday. Show support for Papa John, his stance against ObamaCare and his stance for Private Enterprises.

iggy

November 15th, 2012
9:48 am

“Now a .50 free lunch program for poor school kids.. Well we can get rid of that.”

Get rid of it? Nope. Have a serious investigation with regard to parental fraud, theft…Absolutely!!

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 15th, 2012
9:50 am

BTW the real Mitt Romney came out in his conference call to his donors.

He put the phony Mitt ” Cheesy Grits ” Romney away now that its all over.

That is the kind of man you guys wanted running this country.

Shameful.

Rush

November 15th, 2012
9:50 am

Can someone explain to the rest of us what a rich person is in terms of annual income? Just curious since the mantra appeears to be to “sock it to the rich”. Thanks.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 15th, 2012
9:53 am

Can someone explain to the rest of us what a rich person is in terms of annual income? Just curious since the mantra appeears to be to “sock it to the rich”. Thanks.

Id say the number they are using. 250,000 and above qualifies as rich.

Certainly anywhere in the poor Southern states if you make that much you will be doing quite well.

In the Northern richer states maybe not as well but still very well.

cc

November 15th, 2012
9:54 am

“Now a .50 free lunch program for poor school kids.. Well we can get rid of that.”

No, but why are we feeding them breakfast (and dinner) in many places?

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 15th, 2012
9:55 am

Dont forget tomorrow is “Pizza for Papa” Friday. Show support for Papa John, his stance against ObamaCare and his stance for Private Enterprises.

I will. I will never order another Papa Johns pizza.

This is just more bullying by a corporation who treats there employees like crap. Doesn’t give them any benefits. And then when they think the Government might force them to do it they get pissed.

Pizza isn’t that good anyway.

tiredofIT

November 15th, 2012
9:55 am

iggy
November 15th, 2012
9:46 am

Dont forget tomorrow is “Pizza for Papa” Friday. Show support for Papa John, his stance against ObamaCare and his stance for Private Enterprises.
+++
Support your local pizza businesses instead!

iggy

November 15th, 2012
9:59 am

“This is just more bullying by a corporation who treats there employees like crap”

So a businees owner has no right to make a profit…you sound like a 4th grader.

cc

November 15th, 2012
10:02 am

Glenn@9:39 am:

There is an implosion coming, and you will be a part of it, too. The implosion is going to impact us all equally. Maybe you can’t see it coming? If not, it will be a surprise for you . . . but not one in which you will take much pleasure . . .

iggy

November 15th, 2012
10:05 am

“Mommy, protect me from the big bad bullying boogieMan…wwwaaahhhh”

LMAO!!!

Glenn

November 15th, 2012
10:05 am

A business has no right to hand the taxpayers a bill for his sick employees who are not insured . If a Papa John’s employee gets sick and isn’t covered he will get medicaid . It will be the state picking up the tab…..That counts you as well iggy .

iggy

November 15th, 2012
10:10 am

No Sir. We now have a remedy…ObamaCare. And its no like employers havent been stating they would drop employees from thier HCare roster if ObamaCare was made the law of the land.

Plus and according to Obama the cost is minimal. This being the case its a win, win for everyone.

Try again.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 15th, 2012
10:10 am

Corporations don’t incur medical bills. People do. If a medical bill isn’t paid, the deadbeat is the person (or parents) who asked for medical care.

cc

November 15th, 2012
10:10 am

“This is just more bullying by a corporation who treats there employees like crap. Doesn’t give them any benefits.”

Yeah, maybe those employees would rather work less hours or lose their jobs. That’ll show ‘em!

iggy

November 15th, 2012
10:11 am

Sew the wind, reap the whirlwind.

Enjoy that ObamaCare, brother!!

DeanO

November 15th, 2012
10:11 am

The best way for the Republicans to turn Obama’s “I won” attitude would have been to win.

Glenn

November 15th, 2012
10:14 am

The far majority of employees that work for Papa Johns don’t have healthcare . He’s been getting a free ride . What makes this guy so entitled ? You try again .

Glenn

November 15th, 2012
10:18 am

What ? Lil Barry bailout ? Do you know how many social workers are in a hospital ? Do you what they do ?

iggy

November 15th, 2012
10:19 am

LIKE I SAID. We now have a remedy. A corp is not obligated to do anything other than pay a wage in return for work and pay the obligatory taxes….

You want benefits. Well now ObamaCare is available. You wanted it, you got it.

YOU LOSE!!

iggy

November 15th, 2012
10:20 am

451ST….YEAH BABY!!!!

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
10:22 am

“Your idea of a compromise is to go with Gov. Romney’s plan, despite the electorate rejecting that plan.”

At some point, Jeff, you’re really going to have to start actually READING Kyle’s posts before arguing against them.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 15th, 2012
10:23 am

Glenn, if employer-provided health care is so important to those workers, why don’t they take jobs that offer that benefit? My guess is because they haven’t done the things necessary to be able to qualify for better jobs.

Odis

November 15th, 2012
10:24 am

Elections have consequences!

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 15th, 2012
10:25 am

A business has no right to hand the taxpayers a bill for his sick employees who are not insured

If a business does not make a profit it goes out of business and employees are let go. So, beside lack of health care, the employee is left without money for rent, food, transportation, utilities, etc., which is foisted off on the taxpayers. So, while you are deciding what rights business has, don’t give them the right to go broke, either.

So, to carry your silly statement to its fullest extreme lets change it to…….

A business has no right to go broke and hand the taxpayers a bill for all of his unemployed former workers, rent, utilities, transportation, food, and healthcare. That probably is somewhere in Obama’s new regulations, right?

iggy

November 15th, 2012
10:26 am

I fail to see the problem here. Obama promised ObamaCare would be cost-effective with the same or better/equal services offered and the private market.

You PapaProtestors should be jumping for joy at this “reverse-boycott” inititated by the liberals. ObamaCare is no different than the private market.

Other than your liberal diapers being full, whats the problem. You got what you wanted…ObamaCare.

iggy

November 15th, 2012
10:28 am

I LOVE IT…PapaJohn is boycotting his employees.

LMAO!!!!

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
10:29 am

“That is the sort of argument I expect to hear losers make…check out those demographics. Without significant change todays Republican Party won’t come any closer.”

And your argument, JDW, is what people incapable of analytical skills make.

Your first one regarding the Electoral College is called – spin. When you can rationalize a “big win” by citing a system where one vote wins it all, while ignoring the results that allotted the winner those votes you’re just spinning.

You’re second argument is just deflection and wishful thinking. Parties change. back in the late 1980’s the Democrats were given up for dead. Look what changed. Candidates change. The American Idol President is thankfully term-limited. Laws change.

The only thing that doesn’t change is your inability to think beyond the blinders of your own beliefs.

Nate Silver

November 15th, 2012
10:29 am

“Time to eat your own dog food, losers.”

Tranlsation: I am a bitter loser with low self-esteem. The election just compounded it. Get em lil “b”.

Get on your step stool so you can look people in the eyes and tell them what you really think

hahahahahhahahaha

:-)

cc

November 15th, 2012
10:29 am

“Elections have consequences!”

. . . as the Obama-supporting “winners” will soon learn.

Nate Silver

November 15th, 2012
10:33 am

Tiberius

You are the one spinning. It is over. The sting should have already gone away. Maybe not the emotional scars, but some of you had them before the election results came in.

Charles Krauthammer declared a mandate for Bush in 04 with less EC votes and not much different popular vote, but is crying like you that Obama doesn’t have a mandate now.

I do not care if he has one or not. Just knowing you guys are still pouting and whining just as strong as last week is all that needs to be said or read.

iggy

November 15th, 2012
10:35 am

So John Q, are you saying you are a little Hitler or a little Brezhnev.

Glenn

November 15th, 2012
10:36 am

Point being Barry is its the taxpayer , you and me , that pick up the tab . I don’t like Obama care . Its to pricy . If we were to come up with Glenn care . It would involve a catastrophe plan & employers would no longer subsidize healthcare plans . That I believe that would lower rates . On the other hand the insurance lobby would go nuts .

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 15th, 2012
10:38 am

Obozo has a mandate? Let us see him enact it into law.

Robert

November 15th, 2012
10:41 am

Mr. Romeny continues to put his foot in his mouth with comments about why he lost the election. He blames President Obama for giving free stuff away to the poor.

Jay Bookman wrote a great article today. “So let me get this straight: When Romney, in the first debate, promised a tax cut to the middle class, he wasn’t promising them a gift? When he wooed his backers on Wall Street by telling them that he would repeal Dodd Frank, abolish the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau and lower corporate taxes, that wasn’t promising a gift? When he went to Viriginia to promise to build even more nuclear-powered submarines that just happened to be built right there in Virginia, that wasn’t a gift? When he went to coal country to promise to weaken environmental regulations that protect the air we breathe, that wasn’t a gift? When he traveled to Florida to promise to replace $716 billion in Medicare funding allegedly cut by the Obama administration, that wasn’t a gift? Or is it only a “gift” when offered to poor African Americans or Hispanic Americans? All in all, it is quite something to see complaints about pandering from a man who wafted in the political breeze with all the gravity of a dandelion seed.”

Great article Jay Bookman

Nate Silver

November 15th, 2012
10:42 am

“I earned capital in this campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it,” Bush told reporters. “It is my style.”

As he had done in his victory speech Wednesday, Bush spoke of building a bipartisan consensus and reaching out to the 48 percent of Americans who voted against him. Yet he made plain that he had no intention of moderating his agenda to reach that goal.

“When you win, there is … a feeling that the people have spoken and embraced your point of view,” Bush said. “And that’s what I intend to tell Congress, that I made it clear what I intend to do as the president; now let’s work.”

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Bush-claims-mandate-sets-2nd-term-goals-I-2637116.php#ixzz2CJ3×4fNw

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 15th, 2012
10:43 am

Glenn, that’s the government’s call, not the employer’s. if you have a problem with government mandates requiring you to pay the bills for folks who don’t, take it up with government.

iggy

November 15th, 2012
10:44 am

Romneys hair looks better than Bookmans wig. Its just a case of sour grapes.

Nate Silver

November 15th, 2012
10:46 am

“As President-elect Bush has made very clear, he ran on a particular platform that was very carefully developed. It’s his program, it’s his agenda, and we have no intention at all of backing off of it. It’s why we got elected.

So we’re going to aggressively pursue tax changes, tax reform, tax cuts, because it’s important to do so. [...] The suggestion that somehow, because this was a close election, we should fundamentally change our beliefs, I just think is silly.”

Dick Cheney

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
10:47 am

“Charles Krauthammer declared a mandate for Bush in 04 with less EC votes and not much different popular vote”

Strange, Nate Silver, but I hadn’t heard of Charles Krauthammer until a couple of years ago, and even stranger, I’m not Charles Krauthammer.

So his partisan thoughts don’t much concern me, either.

But when .0033% of votes cast differently over just 4 different states can reverse the results of an election, that is the very definition of a close election.

Glenn

November 15th, 2012
10:48 am

That makes no sense Barry .

zeke

November 15th, 2012
10:49 am

Mike,

Military/defense is one of the very few things the Constitution allows to the central government! If any NON CONSTITUTIONAL PROGRAMS ARE ELIMINATED, WELFARE, MEDICAID, ADC, WIC,, or, simply reduced 5% or 10% you would save $300 to $500 billion a year! AND THESE ARE NOT UNDER AUTHORITY GIVEN TO THE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT BY THE CONSTITUTION!

iggy

November 15th, 2012
10:49 am

Why are we discussing Bush? Oh yeah…Its Bushs Fault.

Speaking of pizza…anyone recall the mid 1970 SNL skit with Father Guido Sarduchi and is “Find the Pope in the Pizza Contest”.

Hilarious.

Nate Silver

November 15th, 2012
10:50 am

Tiberius

Keep spinning and check out the Bush and Cheney quotes.

And I do not care whether you voted for him or not, however they were the last POTUS and VP.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
10:51 am

Robert, praise for Jay Bookman belongs on Jay Bookman’s blog. We don’t go there unless we want to read illogical nonsense from the writer and his followers.

The missing piece of Jay’s argument is, of course, that Romney intended to pay for his so-called “gifts”. Obama has not, and has no intention to do so.

Nate Silver

November 15th, 2012
10:55 am

Tiberius

Even though Republican’s have a majority in the House, is there majority any less valid because Democrats actually received more combined votes across the nation in House races?

No, it does not.

Suck it up. Bring someone better to the table next time. Republicans couldn’t even beat a mediocre President.

Heck, Republicans have lost the popular vote 5 of the last 6 Presidential elections. However it took until last week for the party to say, we might want to start reaching out more than we have done in the past.

When Senator Graham mentioned the “reach out” issue several months back, right leaning pundits and some in the party jumped all over him for what was nothing but the truth.

Oh well, keep turning those sour grapes into whine.

Be good.

iggy

November 15th, 2012
10:56 am

I guess we are now beginning to see the problem wth liberal thinking like “we have to pass it to find out whats in it”.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Chew on that one, libbys!!!

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
10:57 am

Nate, there is no spin here – only cold, hard analysis of the total vote.

It doesn’t matter what ANYONE has said in the past about mandates.

Doesn’t. Matter.

iggy

November 15th, 2012
11:00 am

If Obama were to read from his teleprompter the phrase “sniffing glue is a nutritional part of any Post Toasties breakfast” you would see fights breaking out over Elmers, Testers glue products and their respective profits skyrocket.

Nate Silver

November 15th, 2012
11:00 am

“only cold, hard analysis of the total vote”.

ROMNEY LOST……..

Analyze that. All else is nothing but your spin. The demographic issue that has been overlooked by the Republican Party and confirmed by several RNC Chairmen (Mike Steele & Ken Melhman) is at their door now. We will see how the Republicans proceed.

SBinF

November 15th, 2012
11:02 am

Yes, mandates only matter when it’s a Republican president.

Tiberius, your argument is a red herring anyway. Obama won in a landslide in 2008 and you and folks like you still called him illegitimate. You will think he is illegitimate no matter the margin of victory.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
11:04 am

“Even though Republican’s have a majority in the House, is there majority any less valid because Democrats actually received more combined votes across the nation in House races?

No, it does not. ”

Absolutely correct, Nate, because the voting structure for Congress is completely different than for President. Nice of you to open your mind, even if it compare apples to oranges.

“Republicans couldn’t even compete in a popularity contest for President.”

Fixed your typo, Nate. he American Idol President is term-limited. Republicans will do better next time simply because popularity drives many of the voters who came out in 2008 and 2012 to vote for Joe Cool.

bluecoat

November 15th, 2012
11:07 am

Georgia’s economic forecasters say in 2014 the recession will be in the rearview mirror.
This shows confidence in President Obama.
Obamaphones are only available to ones that voted for Obama.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 15th, 2012
11:09 am

2014? Yeeee-freaking-haaaa! Only five years after it ended!

JDW

November 15th, 2012
11:10 am

@Tiberius…”And your argument, JDW, is what people incapable of analytical skills make.”

I am making no argument. It is over and is black and white 332 to 205. No matter how you spin it that is not a very close result. You are the one attempting to make a sour grapes argument to dilute that victory and it won’t work with me nor apparently the President.

He has won. There are 2 more Dems in the Senate. There are 7 or so more Dems in the House. He was elected after making several proposals that by his election have been validated by the electorate and will be pursuing those.

First on the list is raising taxes on those that are most fortunate. The Republicans will either get on board or see the entirety of the Bush Tax Cuts expire, which is my personal preference. Should that happen they can try to spin it in 2014.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
11:11 am

“Obama won in a landslide in 2008 and you and folks like you still called him illegitimate. You will think he is illegitimate no matter the margin of victory.”

No, SBinF, I called him unqualified (still do). Don’t paint with such a broad brush next time. In fact, if you were to review my posts on the subject throughout the past 4 years, you’d see me defending his birth situation against many who questioned it.

Another epic fail on your part.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
11:14 am

Facts dilute Obama’s victory, JDW. Nothing more, nothing less.

JDW

November 15th, 2012
11:20 am

@Tiberius..your guy lost and your whining doesn’t change anything. The President will now move forward to implement his proposals.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 15th, 2012
11:21 am

“First on the list is raising taxes on those that are most fortunate.”
———-

Powerball winners? Doesn’t seem like that will do much to fix Obozo’s unpatriotic trillion-dollar deficits.

bluecoat

November 15th, 2012
11:24 am

First 4 years( our goal to make him a one term president)well that failed.Y-F-H

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
11:25 am

JDW, I am not trying to change anything. I realize the better man (and this country) lost. But I am not going to sit by and allow the winners to once again create a false impression (one they specialized in during the election) to inflate his victory into epic proportions, when none exist.

The President can TRY to move forward to implement his proposals, but the Constitutionally-elected checks and balances of Congress will blunt his impulses of excess this time.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

November 15th, 2012
11:27 am

Fox 19 anchor back on the air after suspension for calling Rachel Maddow an ‘angry young man’ on Facebook.

Now that’s funny.

TBone

November 15th, 2012
11:28 am

I don’t think the GOP will need to do much to turn this election victory against Obasma. He will with the help of the usual elitists blow the doors off the outhouse previously known as the USA. Just take a look around; the post office continues bleeding billions of dollars and nothing is done; the private sector will scale back wages and salaries and consequently have to charge more for goods and services to pay for Obasmacare and leadership has been changed to mean teltprompter speeches. We are in deep doodoo.

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 15th, 2012
11:33 am

First on the list is raising taxes on those that are most fortunate

JDW, attributing high income with fortune, like they won the lottery or something.

No, they stayed in school, developed excellent skills, took risks, and achieved their status. Why do Libs always try to imply that wealth is just something that is randomly distributed to the “fortunate”? Did someone give you a fortune, JDW? Maybe that is why there are so many poor people supporting the Dems, waiting on fortune to make them rich, rather than doing the things that have been proven to make one a success.

iggy

November 15th, 2012
11:35 am

“angry young man”

Hilarious…

SBinF

November 15th, 2012
11:38 am

No, SBinF, I called him unqualified (still do). Don’t paint with such a broad brush next time. In fact, if you were to review my posts on the subject throughout the past 4 years, you’d see me defending his birth situation against many who questioned it.

Another epic fail on your part.
——————–

Exactly my point, his margin of victory is hardly the issue, so why do you mention it? He was elected handily, he thumped Romney, the GOP is in shambles, and they have zero leverage in discussions on sequestration and tax cuts. It’s downright hilarious that Kyle and co. are finally out of mourning and looking to spin what can only be described as a complete drubbing of the GOP.

Turn his “I won” attitude against him? The folly! His first term isn’t even up yet. To that point, Mitch McConnell said it was his #1 goal to see that Obama is only a one-term president. It must crush him to know that the last two years of his life are a complete waste, and not only was Obama reelected, but Dems picked up seats in both houses of conference.

Someone is failing, all right.

Rush

November 15th, 2012
11:41 am

So $200k is rich for an individual but $250k is rich for married couples? Why not $400k for married couples? Seems like then we could treat men and women equal. Also what about same sex couples what is the rich threshold?

Rush

November 15th, 2012
11:42 am

What is a house of conference, SBinF? Kind of like a house of Tsar’s?

Nunna Yobinnes

November 15th, 2012
11:43 am

Clem – if you really believe your own post, get some remedial math help. You don’t need to make up lies about Romney just because you don’t like him. The returns are out on the internet for anyone to see. (Except I can’t get Bynum’s or Obama’s 2011 returns to open. Wonder what they’re hiding.) Anyone can see his effective tax rate was well above 14%. Stop perpetuating left wing campaign lies.

SBinF

November 15th, 2012
11:44 am

Oh gee, I used the incorrect word, and I’m sure you can’t figure out that I meant Congress.

Great job Rush, you’re clever. You should write for Leno.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 15th, 2012
11:44 am

Clem – if you really believe your own post, get some remedial math help. You don’t need to make up lies about Romney just because you don’t like him. The returns are out on the internet for anyone to see. (Except I can’t get Biden’s or Obama’s 2011 returns to open. Wonder what they’re hiding.) Anyone can see his effective tax rate was well above 14%. Stop perpetuating left wing campaign lies.

SBinF

November 15th, 2012
11:46 am

Though Rush, I can fully understand your need to be petty. You have no substantive counter to the facts I laid out. And poor Romney has decided to double down on his 47% remarks. Those of us who voted for Obama are a bunch of ignorant, lazy moocher.

And people wonder how the GOP lost this election. Goodness, it’s such a mystery.

independent thinker

November 15th, 2012
11:47 am

All I care to know is how much Romney’s taxes will go up and if there is any way he can be made to pay more than capital gains tax on his secret millions in profits from the federal auto bailout funds through Delphi. Sure hope someone has the stones to nail him for failing to disclose that little conflict of interest. Would love to see an invitation for him to visit the IRS.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
11:49 am

“A good number of our multi-millionaires and billionaires are that way because of inheritence.”

Really?

Please provide figures.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
11:50 am

“Exactly my point, his margin of victory is hardly the issue, so why do you mention it? He was elected handily, he thumped Romney”

If his margin of victory isn’t an issue, why do your comments make it sound so, SBinF?

Another epic fail.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

November 15th, 2012
11:52 am

Out for the rest of the day.

Continue the classlessness and spiking the ball, libs.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 15th, 2012
11:53 am

Tiberius – What’s wrong with inheriting something? Up until recently, the gub-ment took 50+/-% of estates in estate taxes (after they paid income taxes all their lives). You feel that the only beneficiary of estates should be the gub-ment, not the children of the decedent?

Nunna Yobinnes

November 15th, 2012
11:54 am

Sorry Tiberius. I read your post quickly and failed to realize you were quoting someone else.

Rush

November 15th, 2012
11:56 am

No Leverage? You do realize in which “House of Conference” appropriations bills originate, right? Do you actually realize which party controls that chamber? I suppose that it petty analysis whereas your nuanced thinking will carry the day? LOL

Rafe Hollister, dreading the eventual decline caused by Obamanism

November 15th, 2012
11:58 am

John Q

Very few rich people are there because of inheritance. The “Fortunate” card is just one of many in the Wealth Envy deck. It is there to make it easy to demonize the rich by attributing their wealth to good fortune. It makes the less well off feel better about their lot in life, if they can blame their status on bad luck, rather than poor preparation and their uncomfortableness with risk.

Linda

November 15th, 2012
11:58 am

Kyle@9:19, Thank you, sir!

iggy

November 15th, 2012
11:58 am

I saw on this a.m. news those making > $70K annually, can expect their taxes to increase by $4000 annually.

Thats on ehelluvan increase for middle class persons.

iggy

November 15th, 2012
11:59 am

John Q

November 15th, 2012
11:35 am

Just cant stand it can ya…

Thulsa Doom

November 15th, 2012
12:00 pm

Independent thinker,

If Romney has “secret” millions in profits from the auto bailout via delphi than how are these millions “secret” if you know all about them. Sometimes you say things that are just jaw dropping dumb. This comment is but one of many foolish statements that you’ve made.

Rush

November 15th, 2012
12:01 pm

What exactly is internets, John Q? Libs once again proving their mettle…….quick to pop off their mouth without thinking or reviewing their own lies.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 15th, 2012
12:01 pm

iggy – Doesn’t it make you want to go out and thank a democrat for raising your taxes by $4,000 in the current economic environment?

independent thinker

November 15th, 2012
12:07 pm

Loser cons- Kyle, Rove, Grover and Governor Robme still think the voters were too dumb to realize that Romney was the better candidate. The businessman had nothing to do wuitha failed ground game, incompetent polling data and a failed ORCA system designed to get out the vote. But a community organizer had none of those problems. Why?
They would prefer a liar, hypocrite, manipulator of government bailout money for personal gain, outsourcer in chief, vulture capitalist.draft dodger con artist and champion of the rich and bigot to someone who is trying to rescue the economy and fight three active wars successfully. LOSERS
Lets go off the cliff and let everyone’s tax cuts expire. After all the deficit is the most important issue-right cons???

Kyle Wingfield

November 15th, 2012
12:09 pm

John Q @ 10:33: Perhaps you didn’t see the comments LeftInTheSouth made before I removed them, but they were of the same vulgar nature for which I have banned other commenters. When people resort to that kind of talk, I give zero thought to their political leanings before banning them.

cc

November 15th, 2012
12:12 pm

“independent thinker”

You are neither . . .

mike

November 15th, 2012
12:14 pm

independent thinker: “They would prefer a liar, hypocrite, manipulator of government bailout money for personal gain, outsourcer in chief, vulture capitalist.draft dodger con artist and champion of the rich and bigot.”

Man, that’s GOOD! Mind if I save a copy?

As usual when you confront the cons on this blog with the truth they run and hide. I’m sure this will be no different. As The Con Squirms.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

November 15th, 2012
12:15 pm

Romney’s upset that Obama gets to give his voters things and that he doesn’t get to give his rich pals increased tax breaks.

whaaaaaaa. whaaaaaaa

SBinF

November 15th, 2012
12:16 pm

No Leverage? You do realize in which “House of Conference” appropriations bills originate, right? Do you actually realize which party controls that chamber? I suppose that it petty analysis whereas your nuanced thinking will carry the day? LOL
—————————–

If they do nothing, the cuts are put into place and the revenue increases happen automatically. Boehner and the GOP have no leverage in the matter. Appropriations begin in the Congress….if my elementary school civics serves me correctly, anything from Congress must be signed by the president to be enacted.

So yeah….no leverage. I’m sure the sequester seemed like a good idea at the time to Republicans, but now that it is looming, the appearance that they have options is almost laughable.

SBinF

November 15th, 2012
12:24 pm

And by God, the only reason the GOP even has the House is because of gerrymandered district. Lest we forget, Dem House votes outnumber GOP house votes nationally.

Nunna Yobinnes

November 15th, 2012
12:31 pm

SBinF – That only counts when we officially become the Union of Soviet Socialist American Republics.

cc

November 15th, 2012
12:32 pm

SBinF:

We all know the dims have NEVER gerrymandered any districts, son’t we?

cc

November 15th, 2012
12:35 pm

SBinF:

We all know the dims have NEVER gerrymandered any districts, don’t we?

Nunna Yobinnes

November 15th, 2012
12:35 pm

Aren’t you all just looking forward to sending in your additional $4,000 in taxes? Woo hoo.

SBinF

November 15th, 2012
12:35 pm

Maybe, maybe not. But right now we’re talking about districts redrawn by GOP legislatures after the 2010 elections. Try to stay on topic.

TBone

November 15th, 2012
12:35 pm

Independent thinker is an oxymoron,.

iggy

November 15th, 2012
12:36 pm

Jay Bookman

November 15th, 2012
12:17 pm

LMAO!!

JDW

November 15th, 2012
12:39 pm

@Rafe….”No, they stayed in school, developed excellent skills, took risks, and achieved their status.”

With status comes responsibility…it is now theirs to pay a more equitable tax rate on their earnings over $250K and capital gains. The thing I find staggering is that most of the folks that are in this group have no issue with that responsibility…it is the wannabes that keep up the yelling.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 15th, 2012
12:42 pm

When people resort to that kind of talk, I give zero thought to their political leanings before banning them.

Oh I think you give some thought to it.

For example you were very very quick to reprimand anyone mentioning that Mitt Romney was indeed a Mormon.

But for years here Obama was referred to as a Muslim without a word being spoken.

JDW

November 15th, 2012
12:45 pm

@Tiberius…”I am not trying to change anything. I realize the better man (and this country) lost. But I am not going to sit by and allow the winners to once again create a false impression (one they specialized in during the election) to inflate his victory into epic proportions, when none exist.”

Whatever helps you keep your grandiose self image intact.

As for this…”The President can TRY to move forward to implement his proposals, but the Constitutionally-elected checks and balances of Congress will blunt his impulses of excess this time.”

We shall see, I think a good number of House Republicans have gotten the message and I expect some movement on immigration and other issues. If not good luck in 2014. As for the issue of the moment…to get my desired result Congress simply has to do nothing. Something the Republicans have exceled at over the last two years.

Kyle Wingfield

November 15th, 2012
12:46 pm

Cheesy: The comments I am talking about are of an entirely different nature. And in any case, did I ever ban you for your bigoted comments about Romney and the Mormon church?

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 15th, 2012
12:48 pm

Sbinf, how do you think those districts got gerrymandered? Because the GOP has taken over state legislatures despite your contention that the party is in demise.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 15th, 2012
12:48 pm

All you need to know about the spin and this past election is …

Nate Silver and THE NEW YORK TIMES.

Totally nailed it 100 percent accurate.

Fox News, Dick Morris, Karl Rove, Kyles gut, and the Republican leaning polls Rasmussen and Gallup…. all way way off.

Very telling isn’t it.

And trust me its this way on most every issue. Its just on those we dont have a vote to tell you your wrong. So you just keep watching Fox not realizing it.

Del

November 15th, 2012
12:48 pm

Man the libs are giddy to the point of psychosis over the election outcome. I wonder how they’ll feel when the country can no longer borrow because of our debt to GDP ratio and reduced credit rating down to third world status. When austerity has to be implemented provoking riots just like in Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece with more European countries to come along since the E.U. is back in deep recession. Helluva time for total war to break out in the M.E. Anybody willing to give odds for a successful Obama second term? The libs will still sing praise to their dear leader even after they hear the lemming call and begin their final march to the cliff.

Bye Bye Cheesy Grits

November 15th, 2012
12:49 pm

Cheesy: The comments I am talking about are of an entirely different nature. And in any case, did I ever ban you for your bigoted comments about Romney and the Mormon church?

No you did not.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

November 15th, 2012
12:51 pm

Excellent point Kyle.

If attacking Romney for being a Mormon was a cause for banning, Cheesy Grits would have been banned long ago. He’s full of phoney poutrage. :lol:

Linda

November 15th, 2012
12:51 pm

independent thinker@ 12:07, Obama is trying to rescue the economy? That’s a new one. Did he start this morning?

Seems to me that he’s done everything in his power (& outside his power) to sabotage it.

Del

November 15th, 2012
12:55 pm

Cheesy’s comments can get pretty cheesy.

Hillbilly D

November 15th, 2012
12:57 pm

If attacking Romney for being a Mormon

Nobody ever attacked Harry Reid for the same thing. Imagine that.

iggy

November 15th, 2012
12:58 pm

Once the economy fails the liberals will be treated to a constant diet of Govt Cheesey Grits. Yummy!!!

cc

November 15th, 2012
1:04 pm

Del:

“I wonder how they’ll feel when the country can no longer borrow because of our debt to GDP ratio and reduced credit rating down to third world status. When austerity has to be implemented provoking riots just like in Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece with more European countries to come along since the E.U. is back in deep recession.”

You know the answer to that question without having to ask? I assume your posing of the question was only rhetorical?

The answer is, of course that they will “blame Bush”.

cc

November 15th, 2012
1:11 pm

“Nobody ever attacked Harry Reid for the same thing. Imagine that.”

Of course you’ve not heard or read it. Republicans don’t stoop that low and dimocrats view Reid as an “enlightened Mormon”, meaning one who will swallow the party line – hook, line and stinker.

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 15th, 2012
1:13 pm

A leader who did something about 37,000 Syrians killed by their government would be a deserving Nobel Peace prize winner.

Linda

November 15th, 2012
1:14 pm

Liberals think austerity is a program, rather than the result of programs. Guess they think homelessness is a lifestyle.

Nate Silver

November 15th, 2012
1:17 pm

And the whining continued……….

Lil' Barry Bailout - OBAMAPHONE!!!

November 15th, 2012
1:20 pm

Cheesy’s comments are from today forward to be known as “Cheese Whiz”.

Del

November 15th, 2012
1:28 pm

“The answer is, of course that they will “blame Bush”.

cc, I think that excuse wore off awhile back and wasn’t the reason Obama won reelection. I hate to say that I agree with those who think the left has finally succeeded after many years of working at it to get half the country reliant on some form of government assistance. They exceeded the vote control threshold during Obama’s first term. Add to that a well planned and executed ground game in the swing states and we have Obama once again in for a second term. I think,however, the day of reckoning for the Democrats is close at hand as the country begins to longer afford providing financial assistance to a growing number of Americans who are becoming dependent. Politics could change back to the right when that begins to visibly occur or there could be a revolution.

cc

November 15th, 2012
1:47 pm

Del, to the point of your original post, they must blame someone other than themselves. They, like Obama, will accept responsibility for NOTHING!

[...] There: – United Airlines computer problems strand thousands of travelers for the third time since June. – Sirens wail in Tel Aviv. – The United State Postal Service lost $15.9 billion. Yes, that’s billions with a B. Your government at work. – Ohio and Pennsylvania post highest jobless claims the week after the election. How inconvenient. – Zipper problems? Go work for the CIA, but wait a couple of months. – More Washington budget drama. [...]

[...] – Zipper problems? Go work for the CIA, but wait a couple of months. – More Washington budget drama. – BREAKING: Hostess Brands Inc. is going out of business and laying off most of its 18,500 [...]

"All in"

November 18th, 2012
6:09 am

Kyle, I love you man… I personally have declared war on the Obamaites… I have decided to employ their tactics against them. But first, why would I do this? First, I never agreed, nor signed any contract to engage in any agreement wherein the Obamaites can agree by 51% of the popular vote to take my freedoms away, to agree to collectively put their hands in my pockets, and I never agreed to spring for lunch for all of them either. So here’s the deal: 1) I quit working (this should really get your jealousy going) because I can; 2) spend my intellectual capital joining those taking advantage of government benefits and giveaways (it’s not that hard, because liberals aren’t that smart anyway); 3) then just take a front row seat to watch the amazing crash and fireball. I am “all in” Go Obama! Crash the country… Go liberals, cheer him on! By the way, how will you collect nothing from nothing?