Poll Position: How to avoid the fiscal cliff?

Id say making people like Cheesy Grits pay a higher rate than 14 percent when the average America pays a much higher percentage would be a start.

When your Military is spending more than the next 10 countries combined something is wrong. Bring troops home from Germany and S Korea and other places where they aren’t really needed.

Some, like Cheesy Grits, are still stuck in a cold war way of thinking about the Military etc. Listen Russia isn’t going to invade anytime soon. Our biggest threat is terrorism anyway and you can fight that with a lean focused military.

Get rid off all the loopholes that allow some, like Cheesy Grits, to simply move their money to the Cayman Islands or to a Swiss bank account.

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Your poll wouldn’t let me vote for one tax and one spending choice, so I just picked closing tax loopholes.

I would have also picked the across the board cuts if I could.

Loved your snarky comment about Obama’s first order of business as well, Kyle.

Nice to see he has his priorities in place.

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There is again that “sky is falling” notion, in this case January 1st as a cliff to “take a flying leap” from. Actually, nothing much will happen if a decision is not reached by January 1st. True, some tax laws will nominally expire and others will take effect, but the Congress and the President can take retroactive action at a later date. Inaction by January 1st may cause a drop on the stock market, but we have seen those before and they do not have to have a permanent effect.

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Two thoughts.

I like the Boortz 23% Flat Tax Rate Plan. If this was implemented, the rich like Governor Romney could never get away with paying a 14% tax rate. Can you imagine the additional revenue that would be generated from the rich if they had to pay a 23% tax rate?

I am a little disappointed in that we will never see the Romney/Ryan Super Duper Secret Plan to balance the budget by the end of their second term. Let’s see, cut spending and close “tax loopholes”, thereby increasing revenue. What loopholes? What Spending? That was the Super Duper Secret that we will never know!

In hindsight it may have been a bad idea to keep a Super Duper Secret from the American voters! Even lots of voters of the Pale Male Party had a hard time with that one.

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By all means, Kyle – the obvious way to avoid the fiscal cliff is to screw the middle class, right?

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Govt spending and projected growth rates are clearly unsustainable. A balance of spending cuts and revenue increases has the best chance of improving the stability of our system, only if they are tied to a system to cap future spending increases. Politicians have an incentive to spend not just all they bring in, but more to keep as many constituents happy as possible – this needs to be curtailed by law.

What was lost in the debate on the rich paying their fair share is that raising tax rates to 39.6% or more for top income earners will not affect Mitt Romney or Warren Buffet. You need equalize all income – whether from investment (capital gains), or labor and tax at the same rate (hopefully keeping rates the same as now while increasing net revenue). This would level the playing field for those of us who are trying hard to get wealth to those who are living off their current wealth.

All 1%ers are not the same. Some of us pay 40+% taxes (including state) while others focused on by Obama and the media pay only 14%. Yet the solutions proposed hit those already paying high rates. It makes no sense.

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Obama is going to Thailand for Thai Sticks!! That explains Debate1. Obama was stoned! OMG. I figured it out. I’m at a McDonalds. there’s cars pulling up with screetching tires, and men in suits and guns….help, they’re ge

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The Founding Fathers created a system of checks and balances inside of a Constitutional Republic which keeps democratic solutions (as in, the tyranny of the majority) from taking place.

The legislative branch is part of those checks and balances.

The President would be wise to remember that fact.

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Procrastination, thy name means put off until tomorrow as in free fall economics.

Sky divers say free fall is fun but i don’t want to try it. Not by jumping off the fiscal cliff. .

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“No layoff notices will go out if there is still negotiation going on.”

Not in the real world, MarkV. Join us there sometime. If negotiations are still ongoing, yet not vote has been taken to delay the sequestration, the cuts go into effect, sonny.

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The truth about the fiscal cliff is that it’s the grand canyon and nothing can be done, except to send evel kneivel over it as a side show, (the election?).

If you say, “Cut Spending”, then nothing can be done. If you offer to raise taxes, then nothing can be done. If you offer both, then nothing can be done.

There is no solution. Nobody will cut spending. not my money. Go head. make my day. Nobody will raise taxes. Not my taxes. go head. make my day. nobody will do both. not my taxes and money. go head. make my day.

WE aren’t capable of even discussing the fiscal cliff, which is an idiotic way of saying resource allocation, than we are of discussing medical pot, man.

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The President would be wise to remember that fact.

The Republicans just got their tails kicked in the election.

White House – Lost
Senate – Lost Seats
House – Lost Seats

They should remember that fact.

2014 isn’t that far off and if they dont work with Obama Republicans will lose the House.

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I told you once before, Tiberius, but I understand your memory is faulty, so I will repeat: I am not your son, would be ashamed if I were. You already had to stop the mocking distortions of blog names you had practiced, and that should have taught you.

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How to avoid the fiscal cliff . Maybe a nation wide lottery to reduce the debt? Better make it quick.

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The main purpose of the President’s trip is to attend the East Asia Summit. The three stopovers in Cambodia, Myanmar and Thailand are visits of convenience. The Summit is being attended by Premiers, Prime Ministers and Presidents from a lot of high-profile countries including China, Russia, India, Japan, Australia, Singapore, Malaysia and many others. The timing of the trip may not be ideal but the importance of the trip can not be underestimated. Heck, the very fact that China is throwing a temper tantrum over the Myanmar stopover is worth the price of admission. And keep in mind that we finally swapped ambassadors with this country earlier this year for the first time since the Bush 41 administration so this visit will help seal the newly improved relationship we have with that country.

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Obama’s on the way to see his comrade, the former leader of the KGB, Vlad Putin and take care of what he promised him after the election. He will take care of the fiscal cliff later if it’s not to late.

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Hey, let us not condemn President Obama’s important triip to Thailand , Cambodia, etc.

He has a PLAN!

First: He will bring some of that great Thai cuisine back and feed Congress. Voila! Le compromise!

Second: He will bring a promise from Cambodia to rid itself of Pol Pot. Eureka! A great achievement! Democrats celebrate at the UN. (But but Pol Pot died in 1998. But let us not bother with minutia.)

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I think the choices in the survey are too limiting. What it may take is a combination of all of the above!!

I do believe we need to look at some things separately – such as Social Security and Medicare. These should have separate budgets and should be balanced within ts own budget. Unlike some folks, I don’t think Medicare should be subsidized with general income tax revenue. Also things such as the Highway trust fund should have a balanced budget within their own budget.

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MarkV’s blather at 11:29 shows he’s incapable of admitting he was wrong on his earlier point.

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If Obama has reduced the Fed debt by ONE CENT from what it is today by the end of his 2nd term I will donate my house to his favorite charity. Unfortunately I won’t be moving out.

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“And btw nobody said Romney did anything illegal.”

How quickly the clueless forget. That’s ALL you Obama folks could insinuate when Romney didn’t give you what you wanted.

Stephanie Cutter called him a felon (although it wasn’t on his tax returns).

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Kyle:

The ONLY way this can be done is by:

Cut spending across the board, cap future increases, and raise tax rates on everone equally.

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“The main purpose of the President’s trip is to attend the East Asia Summit. ”

Some people might actually feel as if avoiding a fiscal cliff might be more important than this photo-op.

Send Biden.

Ooops, never mind . . .

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I should amend : avoiding a fiscal cliff that could take down the world’s largest economy and bring the rest of the world with it”

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grits – Romney was within the law. He gave millions to charity and that reduced his % of tax but you know that. He has paid more tax and donated more to charity than all the Dems in Congress, Bill Clinton and Obama included. Hillary wrote off Bill’s worn out underwear. Obama’s donation to charity is miniscule, Biden’s is non existent. Go investigate them.

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Maybe the Dems won because they have superior technology – no more horses and buggies, no more bayonets, no more out houses, no more telegraphs and Pony Express riders.

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Hey, Sheldon Adelson, how you like that Citizens United now?

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Is this the first President capable of multi-tasking?

sounds like it…..

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I hear Kyle uses a runner to send in his blog posts. After it comes off the Selectric, the runner takes it to the guy working on teh interwebs.

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those of you who only got to pick one option before can now pick two

Cons been voting twice all week!

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Kyle, your poll construct is inartful and will probably lead to inaccurate results. You should have included one option of “spending cuts and tax increases” which most people understand. I think the 2 vote instruction you gave is confusing. Factually, you are just wrong about Social Security being a driver of deficits. It is off the general budget and is not included in deficit calculations. Further, it has not contributed one penny to the deficit to date and has a huge multi-trillion dollar Trust Fund balance invested in safe interest earning U.S. Treasury bonds–the same investment that is probably part of your 401-k and is also held by most billionaires, banks, stock brokers and many foreign countries. Until last year in fact, the annual revenue from FICA taxes exceeded the SS payments to Seniors. There was a shortfall last year which will probably continue until the economy improves FICA revenues but that shortfall was paid by earned interest on the invested U.S, Treasuries combined with some redemptions. Even if there are continued shortfalls, there is enough in the Trust Fund investments to continue paying retirees 100% of their earned SS benefits until at least 2033. I hope the rest of your “facts” are more accurate.

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If they’re smart (I’ll give you a minute to stop laughing your arse off), they’ll kill two birds with one stone by striking a deal to improve social security.

What am I talking about? Get rid of the SS cap that says you don’t have to pay into it on income above $200,000. This cap is one of the most asinine things going on right now since it basically forces SS as a regressive tax.

Maybe then, Obama gets the “rich pay a little more” and the GOP avoids the increase in tax rate.

I’ll hold my breath.

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Trillion dollar budget deficits are unsustainable. Prediction: This president is presiding over the demise of the U.S. does anyone really think that we can be 20+ trillion in debt four years from now and our country survive as we know it? Seriously? And if Democrats hold congress/presidency for 8 more years, that goes to $27+ trillion. That is like having $50k in income and being $250k in Credit card debt. It is not likely the U.S. will EVER grow enough to reduce that kind of income/debt ratio.

And when the U.S. goes down, so does the world. No recovering from that kind of fall … even in the lifetimes of our children.

Sorry, but this election was about the long term survival of our country… and the country voted to go bankrupt in about 10 years.

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“hey, i like instant grits! Cheesy instant grits….”

For better or worse I fear many people will begin to have the opportunity to get acquainted with such fine dining, as after losing their job, is all they will be able to afford.

“What, me worry”

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Another option would be to let China foreclose.

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“MarkV’s blather at 11:29 shows he’s incapable of admitting he was wrong on his earlier point.”

Tiberius’ worn out, stupid response: To proclaim his victory.

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“How to avoid the fiscal cliff?”

I would say the most important thing is for both sides not to take anything off the table. And this will be the most difficult part of resolving the issue. Since the election both sides are taking items off the table.

For example, in his column Kyle takes over 30% of spending off the table. “…the main drivers of budget deficits: Social Security, Medicare and, to some degree, Medicaid.” Where is defense?
Defense must be on the table.

The president and the Democratic Senate want more revenue. They will get it starting 12/31/2012 when the Bush and Obama tax cuts expire. Nobody has to vote on any bill, nobody has to sign a bill. It is a done deal.

The president and the Republican House want spending cuts. They will get their spending cuts on 1/2/2013 when the sequestered spending cuts go into effect. $110 Billion the first year. And, like the revenue increase, nobody has to vote for anything or sign anything. It is a done deal.

This is a deal done by the Republicans and Democrats in Congress and a Democratic White House.

You do not like the deals? How bad do you not like it? Do you hate it enough to compromise on “This” in order to get “That”?

If either side refuses to compromise, we are headed over the cliff.

And that may be the best solution for the long term health of the country.

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I voted for across-the-board cuts, but there is great opportunity for huge short-term savings in defense that absolutely will not jeopardize our security.

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Let us explore what Peter Morrison, the Treasurer of Hardin County in Texas, Republican, has to say about our President and the folks who voted for him. “Maggots” was the genteel term he used for folks voting for our President. The country is” lost”… so what is the answere ???? Leave the Union of course… a very natural reaction for confederates. Please leave and welcome the Republic of Mexico as your new fedral government.

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I went back and looked at federal spending back in 2001 to see what it looked like before the tax cuts, wars, Medicare part D, Bush programs, Obama programs, etc. I looked as spending in the major categories( SS, healthcare, education, defense, welfare and everything else), now compared to then. If you look to reduce expenses to $2.8 trillion ( not feasible, but much closer to current revenues ), and set spending to the same proportion as 2001, education, defense and welfare all need a reduction of 38%. Healthcare is not far behind at 30%. Surprising to me, Social Security would only need a 13% cut while everything else would only need a cut of 8.5%.

That tells me that everyone has some blame in this fight. Some will harp on defense spending, some welfare and education, and a bunch on healthcare and social security. A big problem is that social security really hasn’t increased much yet but we know it is coming. Same with healthcare ( Medicare, Medicaid). These two areas will increase automatically, we know they are going to increase without reform, and yet overall they have not, contrary to popular opinion, been the main drivers in increased spending. If we decide we cannot touch these two areas, even more drastic cuts are necessary in the remaining areas and eventually that will not cover it.

Even if we could magically raise taxes to the point that we cover current expenditures, the other categories would have to be cut pretty drastically to cover future increases in social security and healthcare. We cannot raise taxes to that level without having a devastating effect on the economy and therefore tax revenues, at least not all at one time. The sad truth is that it is past time for reform in SS and medicare but that can will most likely continue to be kicked down the road. It has simply become too difficult politically to do so. Therefore, I think we go over the cliff whether it is soon or some day we push it to in the future. I hate to be so pessimistic, but we have shown very little fortitude in dealing with the small pain and I don’t see us coming to our senses to deal with the big pain until we are absolutely forced to. The sad truth is that a significant portion of our GDP is dependant upon government deficit spending. It is going to hurt to take that away but until we do, we are just living on borrowed time and money.

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snoqualmiefalls, let’s explore the issue at hand, shall we?

The post election comment thread is below.

Or you could just take some Ritalin and FOCUS!

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Henne @12:15 pm

I respectfully disagree. A short term saving by large cuts in defense spending would be counter- productive, because of the loss of jobs in the defense industry. Small immediate defense spending cuts may be the way to go, but it is the saving in the long term by reducing the huge unnecessary military expenditures all over the world that is necessary for the fiscal health of the country.

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Cant count on Pueto Rico. Everytime the “fish are running” the govt offices are like a ghost town.

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We could sell Texas to Mexico.

actually, that sounds really good!

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We would need to change the name “Puerto Rico” to “Obamistan”.

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you doomsayers really need to get a grip.

He didn’t ruin the place in 4 years, he isn’t going to ruin it in the next 4. Heck, we made it through 8 years with a retarded guy….

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Tell the Speaker to get in line or the cut go through. He is not the president, and he doesn’t get his way. The tax cuts for the upper income people WILL have to expire and some defense cuts WILL be on the table, as WILL some entitlment spending. Congress brought this deadline on themselves, THEY agreed to these cuts if THEY couldn’t reach a deal and THEY will now play ball with the POTUS’s ball or else. Obama tried to be too nice a guy in term 1, this time HE will execute presidential powers!

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The only way merely slower growth in spending would work is if it takes place in a serious way in the main drivers of budget deficits: Social Security, Medicare and, to some degree, Medicaid.

Yes, in the GOP’s parallel universe called Ostrichland, there are only TWO huge components of federal expenditures, not THREE.

You seem to be “forgetting” one, Kyle.

Given that, how in the name of (your favorite deity here) can you economic liberals/spendaholics be considered credible on this matter?

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Jay’s blog gets a mention in Alternet.org

http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/5-very-bad-things-happened-karl-rove-just-2-days

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Dusty, you have a life-sized cut out of W in your room? In his flight suit or in his cowboy get-up?

By the way, when does Obama get to play dress up?

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Finn:(as usual)

Alternet is a liberal mouthpiece. What did you expect? A favorable mention of Kyle’s blog?

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“He didn’t ruin the place in 4 years, he isn’t going to ruin it in the next 4.”

He didn’t help it much, either.

Get used to calling Obama’s term of office “The Lost Years”.

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Kyle, did you ever come up with that third HUGE component?

Maybe one of the other kids here knows the answer…

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So, what’s the best way to go about each problem?

Step one: pass a law that says “we were just kidding about the cliff thingie.” (which of course they’ll do, one way or another; everyone knows it, few will say it.)

Step two: legislate a sensible mix of income tax increases, cut a very few low-hanging-fruit Defense projects, and expand spending on infrastructure, transit, and alternative energy to put more people to work.

Step three: implement the rest of the PPACA, including any kinds of semi-legal extortion required to get dimwits like Nathan Deal to expand Medicaid, and of course allow an autonomous Medicare board to find more payment efficiencies–there are plenty to be had out there. Oh, and (duh) re-importation of scrips + negotiate better pricing with Pharma.

Step Four: repeat all of the above until we are at 4-5% unemployment, and only then take a hard look at how we might achieve budget solvency, if needed, by cutting some more spending, but not until then.

(Hey, you asked.)

/drive-by

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Dusty

The election is over, sir. Please stop with the crying and moaning.

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i didn’t like having to choose one, but I picked entitlements because they’re the core of the problem

but I’m ok with raising revenue too, as long as it only comes through reducing deductions and closing loopholes, although ideally those efforts would be used to lower marginal rates

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and we can afford to cut a decent chunk out of military spending too, and discretionary

if common sense prevailed, this wouldn’t be very difficult

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“we made it through 8 years with a retarded guy….”

I didnt particularly like Clinton either but no need to insult mentally challenged.

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Weeping Mitt, mam

You do your “thing” and I’ll do mine. This is an opinion blog. We haven’t all been brain washed. to speak in chorus.

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one more thing:

Yeah, more deficit spending.

Yep. That’s what we have to do. you can either cry about it or go on allowing people to lend us money for next to nothing in interest for the foreseeable future.

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History will repeat itself…there will be a “deal” made to cut spending in exchange for a tax increase, and the spending cuts will be “forgotten” before the ink is dry. (”What? We didn’t agree to that!”) It happens every time.

Oh…and by the way, taxes were going up anyway…remember the 0bama-engineered permanent tax hike covered up with a temporary tax cut? The temporary tax cut has expired.

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oh, and tib, we’re not going broke.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/8-facts-prove-our-govt-not-going-broke?page=0%2C1&paging=off

/drive-by

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Bring the stait jacket. JamVet has escaped from Bookman’s blog.. Still trying to tell Kyle how to run his blog. …..Tiresome…

I’m going to lunch.

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“Tiresome”

yes, the majority of times you can be

Thanks for the acknowleding what was already known.

Why the long faces?

Cheer up.

Have a super day and weekend. It is going to be nice.

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I just wish states like Georgia would stop being welfare states and support themselves.

The very poor Southern red states take far more in Federal aid than they send in with taxes.

The Northern blue states which aren’t poor basically subsidize the very poor rural south, by sending in more in taxes than they receive back.

The Southern red moocher states must learn to live within their means or we are in big trouble.

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So alternet says the government isn’t going broke?

Not by the “I can’t be broke because I still have some blank checks” standard of not being broke, no.

Idiots.

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“Selling Texas to Mexico is the single best idea on this blog to date.”

You can’t sell a state that is planning secession . . .

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” I’d suggest expanding the sale to include the entire southeastern united states.”

Tell you what. Just let us go, debt, deficit spending and all.

In 30 years, you’ll be asking us to bail you out or defend you from attack, and we’ll just be laughing at you.

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Nope, but thanks for the hospitality.

You do not make the rules here. But you are welcome to continue your crying, weeping, pouting, rants and raves if just can’t help yourself

Be me guest

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“Id say making people like Cheesy Grits pay a higher rate than 14 percent when the average America pays a much higher percentage would be a start.”

Effective Income Tax Rates:

Bottom fifth of earners: -12.3 percent
Second-to-bottom fifth: -4.2 percent
Middle fifth: 4.1 percent
Second-highest fifth: 8.2 percent
Highest fifth: 17.3 percent

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/09/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-most-americans-pay-higher-tax-ra/

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“How about giving Obama’s plan a chance?”

We did.

He got EVERYTHING he wanted in his first 2 years, Reality.

IT DIDN’T WORK!!!!!

He was elected because he’s popular, not because he was competent!

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I don’t call it the “fiscal cliff”, I coined a new term: ObamAusterity because that’s what it is.

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“The majority of people voted for Obama. This means that a majority of people liked what he and the Democrats said compared to the Republicans.”

Really? Wow, what an astute observation. They liked what he said.

Just because the majority (by 2%) buy the sales pitch doesn’t mean they are right.

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And I have no doubt that he will be more than happy with ObamAusterity; after all, sequestration was his idea and he’d love nothing more than to try to hang ObamAusterity around the Republican’s neck.

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John Q, I suggest your bone up on the Constitutional powers of the three different branches of government.

There are big words and no pictures to color, but you might be able to get through them.

I’d further suggest you read a copy of the Federalist Papers, but you clearly aren’t ready for that.

“the election was a referendum on 2 very different visions of the country”

No, the election was a referendum on Popularity vs. Competence.

The pretty girl always wins.

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Kyle, your poll is lacking the correct answer:

Raise taxes AND cut spending. It can’t be one or the other…

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“Everyone agreed that the election was a referundum on policy”

Really?

The biggest differences between the tow parties was on taxation. Obama wants to raise taxes while Romney did not. After that, it was just how much each side wanted to actually cut spending.

Foreign policy? Not a big difference between the two.

Social issues were the biggest divide, and this thread rightly doesn’t address those issues.

The problem is that you bought into the “If my guy is good, the other guy is bad” mantra, when the differences between the two sides on debt reduction revolved around how much one side was going to cut, and if you trusted them to do it.

Otherwise, it was just that the American Idol generation voted back in the American Idol President.

The pretty girl won again.

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…reduce all Fed Spending except the defense.

Except the defense???

That is the EXACT same loser GOP proposition that we have witnessed for years.

Wake Up!

Or keep on pretending that you are serious about fiscal responsibility. And keep on suffering the same electoral consequences as Tuesday night…

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“Obozo’s exceedingly lazy. His idea of dress-up is putting on a flag pin.”

Lil’ Barry wants to show Dusty that he is indeed as clever as she thinks.

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Off to help a friend.

(and yes, I have friends – lots of them)

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“Tiberius – You lie. Obama did not get “everything that he wanted” during his first two year.”

Actually, I do not lie, and he did get everything he wanted. The GOP was powerless to stop him in either the House or Senate until Scott Brown showed up.

And NOW doesn’t matter, except that NOW he still has to deal with a Republican House.

Just as the Framers envisioned checks and balances.

Now, Reality, find me the “roll over and play dead” clause in the Constitution, and I’ll come over to your way of thinking.

Now I really have to go.

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Tiberius @ 12:02–it’s easy to call me a name by saying I live in a fantasy world, but tell me one thing I stated that is factually incorrect. You can’t. Do you have money in a pension fund? If you do, you would be furious if they were not investing it to earn some interest income but were instead more or less hiding it in the mattress. And most pension funds overwhelmingly in safe investments not only because that is the prudent thing to do with retirement funds but because they have a legal fiduciary duty to do so. Every pension fund I know of invests significantly in U.S. Treasuries. And if you check your 401k, I’ll bet that you will find it at least partially invested in U.S. Treasuries Yet you would have the Social Security Trust Fund keep its principal in the mattress or invest it in the stock market (think 2008)? As to revenues to redeem the bonds, the Trust Fund is at no greater risk than all the other large investors in U.S. Treasuries who are obviously not worried about the full faith and credit of the U.S. as you are since they continue purchase U.S. Treasuries at record levels even though the interest paid is at record lows. Have you ever heard of risk-reward? I also point you to a recent report from Social Security which says those who are currently beneficiaries will have paid more into FICA taxes than they are estimated to receive back in benefits. So what you are suggesting is that the government renege on its solemn committment to these people.

Kyle@12:12–First, I will admit to being so stupid that I misread your instructions before voting and chose only 1 item. Your poll mechanism does not allow this vote to be changed so you are now stuck with an inaccurate response from me and I suspect others. Not really a big deal. But you should think about that in future constructs. Other polls I have seen indicate American people want balanced package of taxes and cuts and that is what I want. As to your other comments, I have mostly responded above to Tiberius and is applicable to most of your thoughts. I would only add emphasis that the “you” you are talking about paying taxes to redeem future Treasury Bonds are your generation and the ones shafted by bond default would be my generation of SS beneficiaries who, as I pointed out, have already paid more than our own share of our own benefits, as well as taxes which have created a society which have personally benefited you and your generational cohorts. I thought we were all in this together? As far as safety of U.S. Treasuries, I don’t know what I could say to assuage your fears beyond what I have already stated. Everything in life has some risk and all we can do with retirement funds is minimize it. I feel that comfortable that my FICA taxes are invested in an instrument that people and countries from all over the world continue to look upon as a safe haven.

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Thanks for the the-post, MarkV!

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Wonder if the Mistake will be able to slip off for a round or two of golf, as they have beautiful courses over there I hear. Should be nice and warm, beautiful beaches, just the place to go to do a little diplomacy and smoozing with these close allies.

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O’ and Kyle…”This time, Obama is inheriting a mess from himself.”

2% or so GDP growth vs 6% shrink
150K jobs a month vs 750K down the toilet
Solid financial sector vs “this sucker could go down”

Yeah right its a big mess

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If Obama wants to see many more Republicans elected in the 2014 mid-terms, just drop the Medicare payment levels to doctors and watch these greed driven “professionals” throw elderly patients out into the street.

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Kyle @ 2:48: It’s all too easy for folks on either side of the aisle to pick and choose statistics that favor their point of view. Here’s a good one that shows that the more educated the state, the more likely they voted for Obama. But in the grand scheme of things I’m not all that impressed either way. I thought you were better than that.

http://static.happyplace.com/assets/images/2012/11/509bedacdc6e5.jpeg

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This time, Obama is inheriting a mess from himself. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that going over the fiscal cliff would plunge us back into recession and push the unemployment rate back above 9 percent. So it’s a pretty darn important issue.

So, Kyle, the Congress, in particular the House of Representatives, has no responsibility for the fiscal cliff? Is that what you’re saying? And the fact that the debt was about $10.5 trillion when Obama took office in January or 2009, so prior Congresses and Presidents had no input to the fiscal cliff. Is that what you’re saying? And the great recession that began in 2007 and ended in 2009 had no impact on the deficit spending of the last few years. Is that what you’re saying?

Many of us white, retired, business men and women who voted this time around for Obama didn’t like the deficits any more than you and your crowd do. But the difference between you and me is I understand from history that our present circumstances were not created exclusively by President Obama and I am confident that as the economy continues to recover and if he and this Congress can get on the same page the debt and deficits will reverse themselves. Those who differ with me fine. America has been here before and we have always found a way to overcome. So you can either be a part of the solution or continue to a part of the problem. And, by the way, going over the fiscal cliff would hurt for awhile but coming out the other side would result in, “voila”, reduced debt and deficits and even the possibility of balanced federal budgets. You know why: the sequester would take most of the budget process out of the hands of the politicians who got us into this mess over the last 40 years creating a sort of a quasi-balance the budget amendment result.

And, by the way, if I had given Karl Rove any of my money to be invested (in this case a Romney win) and he performed the way he did, I would fire him. You conservatives ought to be more angry with him and the conservative talk show buffoons who were the real ones who lost this election for the Republicans. They lied to you and how they could produce a win for the GOP.

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http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/andrea-mitchell-david-petraeus-resigns-due-to-extramarital

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Sucks to lose, doesn’t it Kyle.

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Lame, JohnQ. The recession started well after Republicans lost the House in 2006. Democrats are guilty as charged.

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Is the Fiscal Cliff the new……?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gUzD1Ud4Lk

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One in five are on Medicaid. Think that might have something to do with the deficit?

It’s the spending, stupid.

Thanks to Democrats, what was a safety net is now a hammock.

Welcome to Obozo’s “Loser America”.

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I’m for closing tax loopholes, especially since most of us here don’t have the ability to use them.

Loopholes may be legal, but most are the result of special interest group lobbyists.

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Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American
November 9th, 2012
3:25 pm
“One in five are on Medicaid. Think that might have something to do with the deficit?
It’s the spending, stupid.”

If it’s spending, then let sequestration take place.

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Good article, Kyle.

Until the end, when the author does a Ron Paul and dookies in his journalist bed.

Even so, the message up to that point was pretty rational and reasonable.

And that is exactly why I am guessing that it will be dismissed out of hand by both the GOP’s intransigent power brokers and those in the party’s self-destructive “base”…

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Mortgage? Mortgages are for chumps.

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“all of the damage from Bush’s policies occurred during the period from Jan 01 until the new congress in 06.”

Yeah, ’cause we can’t put any blame of the people who didn’t lift a finger to fix all the ills that allegedly started before, can we, John Q?

The sad fact is he really believes the crap.

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It’s clear to pretty much everyone that Republicans need to something about their “Latino problem” — everyone, that is, except for perhaps most Republicans.

hehehe. An excellent read on the dividing issue of immigration reform inside the Republican party:

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/09/conservatives_revolt_over_immigration_shift/

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Not at all, John Q.

You claim all of the damage was done pre-Pelosi / Reid, yet you do not take them to task for never lifting a finger to fix anything.

In fact, the very people put in charge of fixing the housing issue poo-pooed the idea (remember Barney Frank?).

In short, you have ZERO clue what caused the problem, and you and your party refuse to take any responsibility for not fixing it.

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Let all the tax cuts expire and THEN give the middle class a tax cut. Republicans wouldn’t dare deny the cut for political reasons.

Next.

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“Interesting that he was scheduled to testify next week and he did make some conflicting statements after Bengahzi about the events.”

He won’t be the last, Del. Protection of Obama is imperative!

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When the emails start getting deleted and the use of personal email for official government business is found out we will be on to something.

My bad, Bush Administration already pulled that stunt.

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Del & cc

I hadn’t read your comments on Petraeus before I made mine. Did not mean to overlook them.

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Protection of Obama is imperative!

Given what just transpired this past Tuesday, you conspiracy nuts should probably work on finding the second gunman on the grassy knoll!

And his birth certificate…

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Del, I’ve all but given up any notion of coincidences in the political arena. All such described events are just a little too handy.

Not to worry, Dusty. I have a hard time reading everything that is posted!

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“Given what just transpired this past Tuesday, you conspiracy nuts should probably work on finding the second gunman on the grassy knoll!”

We’re working on that now.

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When was Petraesus slated to testify?

Thanks in advance for the link and information.

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Well,

At least Petraeus did not try to save his job by having his wife announce, “It’s all just a conspiracy against the general!”

Oh the unforgetable soap opera days of President Clinton that passed before us! .

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Weeping Mitt,

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/cia-petraeus-dni-clapper-testify-benghazi-next-week-171155262–election.html

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Del

Thanks. Can he not be issued a subpoena?

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CIA director resigns. Why? Navy Seals reprimanded for classified secrets sold to video gamers. When? Did the terrorists use the video game secrets to attack the consulate at Benghazi? What is going on? I demand to know!!! Someone get Hillary on the phone.

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Hillbilly D

Exactly. This conspiracy about his upcoming testimony and his announcement doesn’t wash.

He can be ordered to testify regardless. If he will not speak and he has been found to have done something illegal, he can be charged regardless.

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Weeping Mitt, you would think so, but I’m not sure about it.

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Some speculation that he might be falling on his sword or that he’s being set up as the scape goat. In time the truth will come out if there’s a smoking gun.

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Del

If he refuses to testify next week and then refuses to testify if subpoenaed then you might be on to something.

However there are several steps that must take place before that happens.

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You may have a point there, JamVet, however . . .

Republicans do not seem nearly as likely as Democrats to end up with DEAD mistresses.

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JamVet,

What would that have to do with this? The wonderment here is the timing in light of his expected testimony on Benghazi. We shall see if there’s any linkage or not.

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Sure, JamVet, there are plenty of every kind.

But at the top of the pile is PRESIDENT Clinton, the one your selective memory wants to forget. .

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“I advise the President to let the Bush-era tax cuts lapse, and then negotiate.”

Stay by your phone. I’m sure he will be calling you to seek your advice.

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Weeping Mitt,

I’m not speculating it’s just that this is a curious development at this particular time.

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“It pays to have good PR people and/or a “major historian” or two, in your pocket.”

That’s the truth, fo’ sho’, Hillbilly.

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Just shut down the federal government. Another option would be to implement Ron Paul’s economic proposals – they cut $1 trillion the first year and balanced the budget in 4 by abolishing 5 departments and taking a big axe to empire spending while retaining solid defense spending and shoring up Medicare, SS, etc. for those dependent on these addictive and unconstitutional programs.

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JamVet,

His cheating is in my opinion between him, his wife and family as well as God if he’s a believer. As an American citizen it’s primary for me to learn if there’s any linkage to Benghazi and his scheduled testimony before congress.

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“As an American citizen it’s primary for me to learn if there’s any linkage to Benghazi and his scheduled testimony before congress.”

Four dead Americans who were refused assistance AND why we were transferring Libyan arms to muslim jihadists!

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“Four dead Americans who were refused assistance ”

Already been proven to be false. You are either ill informed or just a partisan lying baby. Look it up

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Only one time has the U.S. ever been debt free; January 1835. Didn’t take long after that until they were back in debt again and have been ever since.

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JohnQ, your judgementalism and prudishness are offensive to the freedom loving.

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My question about Benghazi isn’t that things went wrong; that stuff happens. My question is why the silly “movie” story for well over a week. They knew it wasn’t true when they were pushing it.

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“423 billion is a good chunk of change, but it does not offset an annual trillion dollar deficit. ”

You are correct, it probably offsets about 42% of it.

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“I also advocated that both Bush and Obama be removed from office for being war criminals and for serial violations of the United States Constitution.”

“they are first, foremost, last and always about trying to bring down Barack Obama.”

I don’t guess that advocating Obama be removed from office for the reasons you so stated and “trying to bring down Barack Obama” are the same thing in your mind.

Go count your medals . . .

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Of the $423 billion that allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire would raise, guess who gets $358 billion? That’s right, the middle class, who the lying Democrats claimed weren’t helped by Our President Bush’s tax cuts.

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I type Barry rants

Pavlov’s theory being proven before your eyes

hahahahahah

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This is totally off-topic but does the AJC ever update the links at the right side of the page? Under “More from the AJC” the first link is “UGA assistant coach leaves for NFL”. So like a dumbass I click on the link and it takes me to a story from Feb 2011. Geez.

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LBB:

“Why” will be back with you in a minute: she’s busy on her Obamaphone just now.

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LBB:

No way to keep up with them, and getalife is having coffee with Bernie at present.

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At least the VAT got a minority of the vote. Perhaps all the Progressives are off shopping for new Birkenstocks…

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@cc

You mean, we can’t just print more money-Did we run out of ink?

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Slam the throttle wide open. We’ll see what we can make out of the remains. We don’t necessarily have to rebuild those burnt-out cities.

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I’m in agreement with All-American.

Cut spending across the board, cap future increases, and raise tax rates on everone equally.

It’s the only way to take power from the politicians.

Every voter is equally abused. When we’ve had enough, it’ll be the government, not the people that pays. They work for us, not the other way around.

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He got EVERYTHING he wanted in his first 2 years, Reality.

Not remotely true.

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@Kyle…regarding the double snark…Obama may very well want to get a little facetime with Vladimir or any one of a number of other folks and thats ok. As someone that has used the Cisco Telepresense rooms quite a bit I can tell you they work great. If he needs to get face to face with Boner while he is gone it is not a problem. Besides Valdimir might not have one…at $500K a pop, two required to talk, they are a bit pricy.

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