Award for Ivy Prep shows just how wrong Lowery and others crying ‘resegregation’ are
Dear Rev. Joseph Lowery: Before you agree to record another advertisement decrying state charter schools as a maneuver to reinstate segregation in Georgia, perhaps you should check out the news about Ivy Preparatory Academy.
Ivy Prep, to which the Gwinnett County school board refused to grant a charter, and which as a result had to resort to the state’s chartering process, was named one the state’s highest-performers among schools with a high proportion of low-income students.
This news ought to be of interest to Gwinnett voters, given that their school system has fought tooth and nail to prevent the state from having a process to approve charter schools in general, and Ivy Prep specifically. The Gwinnett system was one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit that resulted in the old State Charter Schools Commission’s being declared unconstitutional, and about 20 percent of all the money donated to the anti-amendment campaign has come from administrators in the Gwinnett system alone.
But this news may be of particular interest to Lowery because Ivy Prep’s student body includes a much higher percentage of black students than the schools around it: 75 percent, compared to 46 percent for its nearest peer (Peachtree Elementary School) and 30 percent for Gwinnett’s entire public school system. (These and other data in this post come from the most recent Adequate Yearly Progress Reports available, those for the 2010-11 school year, on the Georgia Department of Education’s website.)
It may also be of interest to Lowery because black students at Ivy Prep were more likely to exceed state standards for both math (43 percent) and English/language arts (48 percent) than their peers at Peachtree Elementary (42 percent and 34 percent, respectively) or Gwinnett as a whole (36 percent and 38 percent, respectively).
And Ivy Prep’s black students were much less likely not to meet standards: just 6 percent on math and 2 percent on English/language arts, compared to 13 percent and 7 percent for Peachtree Elementary; and 12 percent and 5 percent for Gwinnett as a whole.
These students and their parents have chosen to attend Ivy Prep, rather than the traditional public schools Lowery defends as being better for black students — on what grounds and evidence, no one knows.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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209 comments Add your comment
Kyle Wingfield
November 1st, 2012
2:21 pm
Jimbo @ 2:11: Sorry, I didn’t make it past this line: ” the amendment was does everything it can to hide the fact that this amendment takes control away from local school boards and turns it over to the state.”
Which power, exactly, does the amendment take away from local school boards? Or, what will they not be able to do after the amendment that they can do now?
curious
November 1st, 2012
2:22 pm
Close all public schools.
privatize education. We’ll then get what we pay for.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
2:22 pm
“The tone of your comments suggest someone who is a legend in their own mind.”
Actually, carlos, the tone of Charters’s comments suggest someone who seriously knows what they are talking about.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
2:24 pm
But, Kyle, we can’t go having the wisdom of our august school boards being questioned . . .
. . . given the superior product they’ve been churning out for so long.
curious
November 1st, 2012
2:24 pm
Close all public schools.
Privatize education w/ exclusively charter schools.
At least we’ll be getting more results from our investment.
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
2:25 pm
@ JDW, let’s make it simple.
How much should it cost to educate the average Joe/Josephine pupil in Georgia? Any district – shouldn’t matter, right? Because the average kid is the average kid no matter where you live.
Let me tell you why I ask this question – it is because, for example, Clay County spends $14,900 per pupil on average and Pataula Charter Academy (a state charter school) spends $5500 per pupil on average. Since Pataula is outperforming Clay, then I believe I can make the argument that Clay County is way more than enough. I believe I can also make the argument that the taxpayers are getting a WAY better return on investment with Pataula.
Secondly, 67% is actually pretty good, especially since the state average is about 62% (and we used to have the 65% rule, which many, many, many districts did not follow). APS is at 48% for instruction – many fall in the 50s…and yet, they always manage to find money for central office and to pay their school boards.
As for the schools managed by EMOs, what you may not realize is that for-profit contracts vary a lot. The state, for example, reports on some of the EMO managed schools but does not account for the fact that the contract covers salaries and benefits, too – and instead, reports the full amount paid to the EMO. It’s a bit misleading, and it also does not report in the same format that districts are reported. If you go pull the school’s budgets, you can better see what goes towards categories that fall under instruction versus the straight management fee…. and it will never be anywhere close to 17% – that is actually impossible from a numbers standpoint.
Kyle Wingfield
November 1st, 2012
2:26 pm
curious @ 2:24: You can’t privatize education by replacing one kind of public school with another kind of public school.
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
2:28 pm
Now, JDW, we can talk about “duplicative efforts.” Let’s do a bit of apples to apples comparison for a minute. The Commission, when it was operational, oversaw 15,000 students….
We have 157 (out of 180 districts, or 87%) of Georgia school districts in this state who oversee LESS than 15,000 kids. EACH of these districts have full central offices and boards which are paid. Would you not agree that there is excessive duplication of efforts amongst these districts (if you believe that the Commission, with oversight of what now equals more like 18,000 kids, duplicates efforts)?
These districts with less than 15,000 students altogether pay $226,850,597 for general administration. There are 622,302 students in all of these districts. That is $365 per pupil on average going towards general administration.
Compare that to the Commission ($650,000 operational budget for 15,000 students), which is $43 per pupil.
Looks like the Commission is not only NON DUPLICATIVE, but also a better cost savings for tax payers.
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
2:30 pm
@ Curious – a privatized public charter school is actually an oxymoron.
Jimbo
November 1st, 2012
2:32 pm
Hi Tiberius, I can vote against my BOE. I can’t vote against a state commission. I have been paying atttention and I know what’s happening in my state government. Got a nickle, you can own a legislator.
curious
November 1st, 2012
2:34 pm
I thought all these new charter schools would be publicly funded.
Charter schools must be doing something better than in the public school systems we have now, so why do that something better in all schools.
Kyle Wingfield
November 1st, 2012
2:34 pm
Here’s another take on wrong-headed anti-amendment arguments, by Rep. Edward Lindsey.
Ray
November 1st, 2012
2:34 pm
Kyle’s analysis assumes that the kids that go to Ivy Prep were not already testing higher than the students at nearby public schools, and, perhaps more importantly, were not from families of higher socio-economic status, on average, than the public schools that they draw from. Chances are that the Ivy Prep kids were already higher achieving students from higher SES families.
That’s the problem with the argument and discussion surrounding many charter schools, and especially those that draw from struggling traditional public schools (which are pretty much always located in lower SES areas). The charter school draws off many of the students in the upper half achievement-wise and test score-wise from the public school, so it’s no surprise when the resulting charter school then tests a little higher. Is that because the charter school is better? Not really — you just shifted more of the stronger kids to the charter school. But it does cause the traditional public school left behind to have an even tougher time because now it serves mostly lower half students. So are we really better off overall with charter schools, or are we just fixing the problem for some, and making it worse for others?
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
2:34 pm
@ SBnF -
LOL (sorry), but it’s impossible to get a large enough sample size if we can’t get charters authorized in Georgia. We have 70 schools, 16 totally autonomous and state authorized. That’s the best we can give you at this time.
Dearie
November 1st, 2012
2:34 pm
Kyle ~ I wish there was a way to “like” a comment similar to Facebook’s “like”. Some people’s comments are so well written, and really address what others are thinking
.
Kyle Wingfield
November 1st, 2012
2:36 pm
Ray @ 2:34: “Chances are that the Ivy Prep kids were already higher achieving students from higher SES families.”
You have no more way of proving that statement than I have of disproving it.
JDW
November 1st, 2012
2:37 pm
@Kyle…”By that logic, local schools get short-changed any time we build a road, too.”
Conceivable but not apples to apples. Road money is a different line item and is not going to be a big driver of school funding. But as, Tiberius points out the prevailing thought process will be if you have fewer students you get fewer dollars. While that should be true from a variable cost perspective it is not altogether a dollar for dollar trade. Fact is education spending will be lumped into one big bucket and funding will suffer.
curious
November 1st, 2012
2:37 pm
I thought all these new charter schools would be publicly funded.
Charter schools must be doing something better than in the public school systems we have now, so why NOT do that something better in all schools.
Corrected my earlier post.
Jimbo
November 1st, 2012
2:39 pm
Kyle 2:11.
The amendment deprives the local school board the right to deny a charter school that it doesn’t think would be in the best interests of the district. It gives the power to a state commission to override that decision and force the school onto the community, local voters be damned.
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
2:41 pm
@ Carlos, My TONE reflects my impatience with people who can’t reason through things or who contradict themselves or say ignorant things, or who say things that are patently false and not substantiated by data. I can assure you, I’m quite knowledgable about the charter sector, as I’ve been engaged with it and traditional public schools for many years. I am sure you’re just as knowledgeable in your own field.
@ JDW – Thats not oversight…that is the governor,president of the state Senate, and House speaker handing out cookies. You DO realize that the State Board is ONLY appointed by one of these…. and you and the opposition claim that the SBOE can already approve on appeal and that process is working just fine. And BTW, the SBOE has to approve every recommendation by the Commission…it’s in the law.
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
2:42 pm
Excuse me, “Thats not oversight…that is the governor,president of the state Senate, and House speaker handing out cookies.” in my prior post should have had quotation marks as it was a quote by JDW.
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
2:44 pm
@ Jimbo,
No, you are wrong. The state has very limited power – only to approve/deny, oversee, and support quality. The CONTROL goes to the charter governing boards, which are filled with LOCAL people.
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
2:46 pm
@ Curious -
The poor kids and families have lived in that area of Greene County for generations – they didn’t just happen to flock there to mooch. Reynolds Plantation is a very large tract of land owned by one family that just happened to put the development there. This has, by the way, helped the local economy a lot. And the charter has helped the public school system and the kids/families it serves, a lot.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
2:46 pm
“I can vote against my BOE.”
Yeah, you can, Jimbo, but the turnover rate of school board members is disturbingly low, especially given the performance of the schools they manage.
How’s that working out for you?
Jimbo
November 1st, 2012
2:49 pm
CharterStarter, Too 2:44
If the state has the power to approve (ie. force a charter school on us when the local BOE has turned it down) then the power of control is mute. Control what exactly? Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?
Kyle Wingfield
November 1st, 2012
2:51 pm
Jimbo: The local board still has the right to say no. It just won’t have the only say. The question is, why should the local board have the only say over how state funds are used? (Because we are, after all, talking about the use of state funds.)
Kyle Wingfield
November 1st, 2012
2:52 pm
Dearie @ 2:34: Yes, that would be useful. I hope we will have that here in the not-too-distant future.
Kyle Wingfield
November 1st, 2012
2:55 pm
JDW @ 2:37: Supplemental funding for state charters will be a separate line item, too. And I guarantee you we will spend a whole lot more money on roads every year than we will on supplemental funding for state charter schools.
The only people lumping all this funding together in one bucket are the ones desperate to keep their hands on it: Amendment opponents. “Funding vultures,” I think you called them
Jimbo
November 1st, 2012
3:01 pm
Kyle 2:51
If the local board can be overridden every time it says no, then the only “right” it has is to say yes. And, as far as local vs. state power is concerned, please read your columns of the past three years on Obama and try to apply the same logic that used there on this issue.
Kyle Wingfield
November 1st, 2012
3:03 pm
Jimbo @ 3:01: What about the things I’ve written about Obama applies to a situation where the state would be taking more responsibility for what’s already a state obligation (providing a quality education)?
Ray
November 1st, 2012
3:07 pm
Kyle @2:36: Yeah, I figured you’d say that. But I can say the same right back to you: you have no idea that what I say is not true. And I think, chances are, I’m probably right, because it’s well documented that higher SES students test higher.
I must confess I’m not that familiar withn Ivy Prep and nearby Peachtree Elem., which Ivy evidently draws from. But I am very familiar with Drew Charter School in Atlanta, and East Lake Elem. and Coan Middle School that Drew draws from, and there is no doubt that Drew pulled many of the upper half students out of East Lake and out of Coan. So Drew tests higher than EL and Coan — big news flash. The result was that East Lake was so devastated that it had to be closed — and now those mostly lower half EL kids go to Toomer Elem. (they didn’t just disappear) and are no doubt presenting serious challenges at Toomer, a school which previously had things going in the right direction — good luck now. And Coan almost got closed, and with the recent further expansion of Drew middle, Coan is now virtually radioactive — good luck turning that school around. But Drew is full (of mostly better half students), so the Coan kids are pretty much SOL. Has Drew benefitted the overall community? I don’t know — those that go there would probably say it has, but I’d say it’s made the traditional public schools left behind much worse, for an overall net negative for the community. And what is the plan now to help the lower half EL kids at Toomer, and the Coan kids? APS is left to gut it out on its own, as I doubt any new charter school will come in to save the day for bottom half students. But it will be fun for some to throw stones at APS if they don’t work true miracles with these East Lake and Coan kids.
Jimbo
November 1st, 2012
3:07 pm
CharterStarter, Too 2:46
I’m not that impressed with the local BOE but I do have a vote, however tiny and insignificant it may be. But that’s democracy. Under this system I don’t even have that. All I’ve got is a state government that prides itself on low taxes and very little else. We’re in the bottom 10% of state in almost every significant measure of success, and these are the people you want in control. How’s that working out for you?
Kyle Wingfield
November 1st, 2012
3:14 pm
Ray @ 3:07: I understand your argument. But I would point out that Drew is a locally approved charter, not the kind of state charter school at issue in this amendment.
Ray
November 1st, 2012
3:15 pm
I should add to my last post, that it will be fun for some to throw stones at APS if they don’t work true miracles with the mostly bottom half East Lake and Coan kids, while the same people simultaneously sing the praises of Drew Charter School that serves mostly the upper half.
Go ahead if that’s your game. But it is a game, and it’s not really fixing the problem.
Ray
November 1st, 2012
3:22 pm
Kyle @ 3:14: Yeah, Drew is locally approved (which is another, separate, point of mine — local school boards are approving these charter schools, and lots of them in APS and DeKalb, so why do we need this amendment?). But what difference does it make? The point is that charter schools in these areas — whether locally approved or state approved — often may make things better for some, but things even worse for others, often for an overall net negative. At least the local school board would have some idea about this local impact — I doubt Nathan Deal’s state political appointees would actually figure out the local landscape.
md
November 1st, 2012
3:22 pm
“Single mom (divorced)
Works full time 2 jobs
Lives with grandparents to help care for her daughter when she’s working because she can’t afford day care.
Grandparents own their home and can’t see it in this economy
Grandparents also need to stay close to great grandmother who recently had a stroke and owns her own home, too
What would this mom do if her daughter attended a failing school? ”
Need more info, where’s the father? The father’s relatives? Grandparents might think about renting…..rent theirs out and then rent in better district……
I never said they were easy choices, only that choices do exist……not exercising a given choice is also a choice…….it boils down to priorities, IF educating the child is the number one priority, choices will be made accordingly, if other family matters take precedence, it is still a choice as to which takes precedence……..there are currently families from other countries that split themselves up in order to send their children to a possible better life………must be a very difficult choice, but a choice non-the-less.
JDW
November 1st, 2012
3:28 pm
@Charterstarter Too…ok you are beginning to mix issues…lets take this one…
” Would you not agree that there is excessive duplication of efforts amongst these districts”
Yep, and the county/city governments as well. The whole county/city governance methodology in Georgia is terrible. We should have at most 12-15 counties in this state and as such 12-15 school boards. However that is no reason to add another “school board” that will spend money that doesn’t have to be spent. If this commission is not approved those school boards will not have to spend one extra dollar on administration. The commission is 100% duplicative.
Kyle Wingfield
November 1st, 2012
3:40 pm
JDW @ 3:28: I am in favor of some consolidation, but 12-15? No more county govts/school boards than we have members of Congress??
JDW
November 1st, 2012
3:44 pm
@CharterStarter Too…”How much should it cost to educate the average Joe/Josephine pupil in Georgia? Any district – shouldn’t matter, right? Because the average kid is the average kid no matter where you live.”
Not really true, there are big differences in things like land costs and economies of scale. For example in Clay County they spend $12,497 per pupil to educate 358 students. That requires an awful lot of fixed costs that are allocated over very few students leading to a false impression of schools that are “overfunded”. As for Pataula…they educate 440 students and seems like they were plopped down right in the middle of Clay and 4 other counties. Looks like a perfect example of diluting the strength of the region, in this case by siphoning the white students. My guess is they would have been better served if all that effort had gone into the existing structure rather than creating another.
As for their budget…it does not seem to be readily available, unlike more traditional publicly funded schools.
JDW
November 1st, 2012
3:53 pm
@Kyle…”I am in favor of some consolidation, but 12-15? No more county govts/school boards than we have members of Congress??”
I would be good with it…we have 159 counties, trailing only Texas, and average 61,000 residents per county. Top end of that scale is California at around 650,000 per county.
If we were really serious about it you would have to study it relative to densities it might be the right number is 15 or 30 or even 45 but its damn sure not 159 or 160 if this Milton nonsense ever picks up steam
Jimbo
November 1st, 2012
4:03 pm
Kyle 3:03
You’ve been pretty consistent with your criticisms of Obama on government expansion although impartial observers might consider some of his actions to be the proper function of government oversight of mandated duties. But, leaving that aside, the State of Georgia has contributed a smaller portion of school funding every single year since the Perdue years and counted on more and more of the funding to come from the school districts (mainly through property tax). Since my public school education tells me that Article 8 states that it is a primary mission for the state to provide for an adequate education for its citizens, then it doesn’t seem to me that a portion of this ever shrinking pie should be allocated to a schools that the local citizens have deemed unnecessary.
Kyle Wingfield
November 1st, 2012
4:16 pm
Jimbo @ 4:03: You rightly note that the Georgia Constitution says the state shall provide for an adequate education for its citizens. So why do you insist the state should have no role in creating public education alternatives? Why should local citizens have all the say over which schools the state can spend state funds on?
JDW
November 1st, 2012
5:00 pm
@Kyle…”So why do you insist the state should have no role in creating public education alternatives?”
I got to pick on this one…the state should and under the current law DOES have a role in creating alternatives. What they should not have is duplicate roles. They should also spend more time improving with we have in place rather than trying to make end runs to tear it down.
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
5:00 pm
Drew’s Demographics:
http://archives.gadoe.org/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=102&SchoolId=36252&T=1&FY=2011
Bologna they “pulled” all of the upper half kids and caused Coan to close.
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
5:09 pm
@ JWD -
Before we disagree, because I like to give the benefit of the doubt when somebody brings up a reasonable point, please clarify this….
What do you think are “fixed costs” in the instance of, say Clay versus that of, say, a Cobb County?
As for Pataula …
Look at the census data for each of the counties they serve – they are nearly 50/50 or 60/40 minority:white. Now look at the school systems – they are nearly 100% minority. Patuala did open enrollment and are ALREADY, even with the deep, deep racial divide down there, more integrated than the traditional school districts (who, by the way, are failing abysmally these minority families) and continue to grow. And, by the way, their minority students are flourishing!
Keep in mind that Pataula, as a state school, has not taken a dime from the counties they serve. These districts have kept 100% of their local funding to be spread over less kids. AND, if we take your assumption (which I am not sure is exactly true, but let’s go with it)… if Pataula has more white students, the majority of these came NOT from the public school system, so they didn’t even lose those kid’s QBE funds. The districts in this area got a bit of a windfall, but they won’t acknowledge that.
Let me encourage you to do an open records request of Early County – everybody in the area seems to rather attend Early County schools rather than their district schools. Go ask them how may students they get from what district and what race those students represent…and how much is paid in tuition by the parents.
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
5:10 pm
As for the budgets – do what I do to get district budgets:
1. Go through their board minutes OR
2. Do an open records request
They are subject to open records.
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
5:12 pm
And… let me assure you many districts in this state don’t post their budgets. Several don’t even post their board agendas or meetings minutes.
Law says it has to be accessible, but doesn’t say it has to be convenient. I’d support a stricter requirement for both charters and traditionals for greater transparency.
CharterStarter, Too
November 1st, 2012
5:17 pm
I’m with Kyle on the consolidation thing. We need to consolidate, by a reasonable amount, and 12-15 total is way unrealistic. The state funds school districts at 100% for central admin. if they have 3300 kids. We could reduce the number of districts by around (at my last calculation if memory serves) 37 districts….and millions and millions and millions in savings to go back into classrooms.
JDW
November 1st, 2012
5:21 pm
@CharterStarter Too…”if Pataula has more white students”
From a prior column by Jay Bookman…
As it turns out, the state Department of Education maintains a demographic database of every public school in the state, including state-sanctioned charter schools. (The most recent year in which such data is available is the 2010-11 school year). And the data tell us a lot.
Let’s look at Pataula Charter Academy, which serves students in kindergarten through grade six in a five-county area in southwest Georgia. That’s a poor region — in Early County, 76 percent of students are eligible for a free or reduced lunch. In Randolph County, it’s 90 percent; in Calhoun, 92 percent; in Baker, 83 percent and in Clay County, it’s 92 percent.
The public school systems in those counties are also overwhelmingly black. In Calhoun County, where Pataula Charter is located, just 2 percent of the student body in the local school system is white. In Clay County, it’s a mere 1 percent.
Yet in Pataula Charter, 75 percent of the student body is white. Moreover, the percentage of the Pataula student body eligible for free or reduced lunches (54 percent) is well below the regional average.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2012/10/01/state-created-charters-sidestep-public-schools/
This one is a poster child for what should not happen.
JDW
November 1st, 2012
5:33 pm
@CharterStarter Too…”What do you think are “fixed costs” in the instance of, say Clay versus that of, say, a Cobb County?”
Well in Clay they spend fewer dollars than Cobb but the per student number is a lot higher I expect.