Hurricane Sandy prompts two sharply divergent views on how society should respond
It’s been a while since we’ve heard from Occupy Wall Street, the group alleged to be the left’s answer to the tea party. But you might hear more about these messages yesterday from the group expressing apparent approval of the wrecked state of New York City post-Hurricane Sandy:
No subways. No electricity. No chains. #capitalism #sandy #nyc
I don’t think the person tweeting from the OWS account really believes things would be better in a world with so much physical destruction (although, in light of the way OWS treated the Manhattan park where it held its famous rallies last year, I may be giving him/her too much credit). I do, however, think these messages betray an astounding lack of recognition that free-market capitalism is the most accurate system mankind has yet devised to represent how members of a community want to interact with one another.
So, when OWS tweets,”Insurance is the capitalist answer to what should be an effort of mutual aid from the community. #sandy,” while philosophizing, “That community you’re experiencing, in the face of crisis? It’s always there. Think about what it is that usually obscures it. #sandy,” it’s missing the point that people usually don’t “experience” “community” in this way because they’d prefer to make other arrangements and not live like the world is collapsing around them. Arrangements such as insurance.
But whither government? After all, liberals like to say government is “simply the name we give to the things we choose to do together.” That sentiment, however, suggests everyone is always on board with what government takes from them and does on their behalf. The more government does, the less that’s true.
Back to the topic at hand: That doesn’t mean conservatives think government should be out of the disaster-relief business altogether — even if some of us think government should refrain from some other spending and set that money aside to make sure we don’t have to borrow money to cover these expenses, while others believe the more local and state governments can handle emergency management, the better it will be done. (Not to mention that the private sector is often quicker and more efficient in delivering aid than government agencies, as Wal-Mart famously demonstrated in post-Katrina New Orleans.)
This topic tends not to get the thoughtful treatment it deserves in the midst of a crisis, and then it’s usually forgotten once the crisis leaves the headlines. So, we get broad claims about Mitt Romney’s alleged heartlessness based on one brief segment of one interview in which he promoted a federalist approach to disaster relief. Which is about as fair as it would be for me now to point out that President Obama has said nice things in the past about OWS and argue he must necessarily subscribe to its anti-capitalist view of how the world works.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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331 comments Add your comment
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
11:26 am
The answer, Kyle, as in all things in life (sans extremists), lies somewhere in the middle.
Can the private sector do some things better than government in a disaster? Of course it can. You only have to witness the American Red Cross in action following each and every disaster to see that. And without the donations from the private sector to the Red Cross, their record wouldn’t be as good as it is. But they only fill a particular niche in the relief equation.
The Federal government has a role as well. In many cases, they alone can provide some of the industrial and military-grade equipment to clear out large-scale debris and destruction in a case such as Sandy. Their ability to provide short-term financial relief through guarantees is also helpful.
The bulk of the feet on the ground will be the local and state relief efforts, as they always have been.
Private sector utility companies will all step up and assist from states all over the nation to get that power grid back up and running.
It is a symbiotic relationship where all parts need to work together to get results, and it largely does them well in times of great need. I was struck, however, with Obama’s remarks the other day at the Red Cross HQ, where he actually directed the Federal portion of the relief effort to essentially get out of the way regarding paperwork, regulations, and red tape, and to just make it happen.
Would that he could think that way on a daily basis.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
11:33 am
Those who have contracted with evil insurance companies (or abused the taxpayers by purchasing flood insurance at below-market rates) to cover such losses will be quickly made whole. Those relying on government will be waiting for whatever scraps are available.
Beyond The Middle of the Road
October 31st, 2012
11:34 am
“Would that he could think that way on a daily basis.”
A crisis often requires extraordinary measures. If you’re rushing your mother to the hospital I wouldn’t blame you if you make illegal left turns, fail to stop at red lights, don’t buckle your seat belt and speed like hell. But during ordinary times those rules and regulations are there for valid reasons.
iggy
October 31st, 2012
11:38 am
The devastation in NJ, NY is only an appetizer of what we are in for should Oblunder be re-elected.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
11:41 am
Sorry, Middle, but if those rules are in place in “ordinary” times, you just don’t willy-nilly decide to ignore them following a storm. The life and death situations are largely over, so your rushing mom to the hospital situation no longer applies.
If you find the rules cumbersome during times like these, you should change the rules in ordinary times to eliminate their cumbersome nature.
Matz
October 31st, 2012
11:42 am
For MORE fun, follow the tweets of LOLGOP:
“Hi, Gov. Christie, this is the Romney campaign. We have 100 cans of garbanzo beans, a robe & 4 copies of Eat, Pray, Love for storm relief.”
MANGLER
October 31st, 2012
11:45 am
Where did the OWS activists go during the storm and flooding? Did they ride it out on the sand bags? Did they climb up into trees? They better not have gone to a shelter! That would be, sort of hypocritical.
Matz
October 31st, 2012
11:45 am
“Mitt Romney’s entire campaign is a charity event for the 1 percent.” LOLGOP
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
11:46 am
will be quickly made whole.
LOL, are you 12?
John
October 31st, 2012
11:48 am
“That doesn’t mean conservatives think government should be out of the disaster-relief business altogether ”
Have you forgotten Romney’s famous lines about taking it out of federal hands is giving it to the states is good and giving it to private secror is even better. Of course now, when pressed about it several times yesterday, he ignored every single question on it.
You mentioned the slow response during Katrina (under a Republican president) but failed to mention the quick response to Sandy (under a Democrat president). Republican Chris Christy is praising Obama and the federal government’s response. And Michael Brown (remember him) is critizing the federal government for acting too quickly.
ByteMe - Got ilk?
October 31st, 2012
11:49 am
(Not to mention that the private sector is often quicker and more efficient in delivering aid than government agencies, as Wal-Mart famously demonstrated in post-Katrina New Orleans.)
Good idea, bringing up an incompetent FEMA run by a Bush crony as an example where pretty much a blind duck could do better. Perhaps FEMA is doing better under new management? Where’s the recent example of FEMA failing so visibly?
BenDaho
October 31st, 2012
11:50 am
Obama saying lets cut the red tape and help the people is about as brilliant as saying yes when presented with the opportunity to kill Osama Bin Laden. And the liberal lemmings find brilliance in him.
JDW
October 31st, 2012
11:52 am
@Kyle…”So, we get broad claims about Mitt Romney’s alleged heartlessness based on one brief segment of one interview in which he promoted a federalist approach to disaster relief. Which is about as fair as it would be for me now to point out that President Obama has said nice things in the past about OWS and argue he must necessarily subscribe to its anti-capitalist view of how the world works.”
Except that Obama has certainly not supported the beliefs espoused by the Twitter feeds, while Romney has reiterated his in the statement earlier this week…
“Governor Romney believes that states should be in charge of emergency management in responding to storms and other natural disasters in their jurisdictions,”
On a related note guess who thinks Obama acted too quickly to prepare…why “Brownie” himself…
“I noted that the president should have let the governors and mayors deal with the storm until it got closer to hitting the coastal areas along the Washington, D.C.-New York City corridor.”
You are right there are “two sharply divergent views on how society should respond”
Lambeau
October 31st, 2012
11:53 am
And democrats bashing Romney for trying to help is just pathetic. If you flip it around, they would be praising Obama for holding an event to try and give support to those in the northeast.
H.E. Pennypacker
October 31st, 2012
11:53 am
I believe Governor Romney has had multiple opportunities to clarify his view on FEMA and disaster relief, but has chosen to avoid the question.
Obama may have expressed verbal sympathy towards OWS, but he provided them and many of the rest of us the ultimate slap in the face with his appointment of Timothy Geitner as Secretary of the Treasury.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
11:53 am
Well, I see it didn’t take long at all for any thoughtfulness to be thrown out the window.
Is it any wonder that occurred right after the libs got on board?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
11:54 am
So what did the other 99.99% of the government do this weekend?
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
11:55 am
A lot of those beachfront homes destroyed were owned by very rich people. I remember how the insurance companies weren’t going to pay for flood damage after Katrina, as the policies clearly stated flood damage was not covered. Of course, Trent Lott, wealthy Republican from Mississippi, and owner of a mansion near the beach, sued State Farm and received a settlement. I guess my little payments to State Farm helped pay for that. That’s a redistribution of wealth that the GOP can get behind.
JF McNamara
October 31st, 2012
12:02 pm
Disaster relief is and should remain a federal activity. The southern states, by far the poorest, are the people often in need from hurricane relief. Left to handle the problem alone, states like Mississippi and Alabama would have to raise taxes in a massive way to cover the occasional hurricane damage.
On top of that, I don’t really trust my state to handle a disaster situation well because it is contained. If Georgia needs help from Florida and South Carolina, how does that get coordinated? If Florida and South Carolina are in trouble too, then the whole system falls apart.
We already tried the federalist system from 1777-1789. The exact problems they had are what I described in the paragraph above. States couldn’t or wouldn’t coordinate. Maybe we have it right as is and we should leave it alone. Aside from Katrina (which was caused by horrific management), its worked out very well for us.
carlosgvv
October 31st, 2012
12:05 pm
When things are going well, it’s easy to talk about local and state governments handling emergency management. However, when a Katrina or Sandy hits and your material and pyschic world has gone to hell in a handbasket, you want relief NOW, and it won’t matter at all if it comes from the Federal Government.
ragnar danneskjold
October 31st, 2012
12:06 pm
Those pictures from NYC almost look as bad as Nashville did a couple of years ago. Big diff, though – NYC will not recover nearly so quickly, because it lacks the private industry infrastructure. In NYC, everyone depends on the government for everything.
Kyle Wingfield
October 31st, 2012
12:07 pm
JDW @ 11:52: The unfairness I was talking about is the allegation that this stance means Romney is heartless, rather than espousing a different way of accomplishing the same thing.
ByteMe - Got ilk?
October 31st, 2012
12:07 pm
I remember how the insurance companies weren’t going to pay for flood damage after Katrina, as the policies clearly stated flood damage was not covered. Of course, Trent Lott, wealthy Republican from Mississippi, and owner of a mansion near the beach, sued State Farm and received a settlement
Did they actually settle? I know his lawyer in the case was indicted for witness tampering and bribery related to the case. But I can’t find anything saying that they actually came to a settlement and what the settlement was.
cc
October 31st, 2012
12:08 pm
“Have you forgotten Romney’s famous lines about taking it out of federal hands is giving it to the states is good and giving it to private secror is even better.”
Have YOU forgotten that we have a president running $1.4+ trillion deficits annually, has increased the national debt by $6+ trillion and that we are indebted #16+ trillion? How would you suggest such natural disasters be approached? How about people purchasing ADEQUATE insurance to cover any potential losses? Now, that is a unique idea!
Tealiban Party
October 31st, 2012
12:09 pm
Chris Christie, fierce Obama critic, praises president’s response to Hurricane Sandy
New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who has blasted President Obama’s leadership, heaped praise on Obama on Tuesday for his handling of Hurricane Sandy.
“The president has been outstanding in this and so have the folks at FEMA,” Christie said on NBC’s “Today” show.
Christie, whose state is among the hardest hit by the storm, made appearances on several morning talk shows on Tuesday and applauded Obama at each stop.
On MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” Christie said “the president has been all over this, and he deserves great credit. He gave me his number at the White House and told me to call him if I needed anything and he absolutely means it, and it’s been very good working with the president and his administration.”
On CNN’s “Starting Point with Soledad O’Brien,” Christie added that Obama “has been incredibly supportive and helpful to our state, and not once did he bring up the election.”
http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/10/30/chris-christie-fierce-obama-critic-praises-president-response-hurricane-sandy/0JUUf3NDsg6GuUleJr20XJ/story.html
Don't Tread
October 31st, 2012
12:10 pm
I knew it wouldn’t be long before OWS celebrated the destruction on…wait for it…Wall Street. The pictures of NYC look like the scenes from a video game.
I’m surprised at how many in the Northeast don’t have flood insurance.
Just Saying..
October 31st, 2012
12:10 pm
Nobody in favor of the Chris Christie approach…?
Always the Benjamins
October 31st, 2012
12:11 pm
Interesting the coverage of this storm along with the photo/video images being so different than Katrina. Where are the thousands of people needing rescue, hanging on rooftops, why wasn’t Madison Square Garden opened to allow people in (followed by the inevitable trashing of it by the people sheltered there, someone explain that to me?)? Maybe the people in the Middle Atlantic and Northeast are just smarter and actually paid heed to the warning given them, rather than trying to ride it out. New Orleans being 10 feet BELOW sea level also added to the problem, but you live in a place like that and you can’t help but expect a disaster to occur.
The whole thing seems way less dramatized (despite far wider destruction affecting probably 5-10x the number of people). Why is that?
iggy
October 31st, 2012
12:12 pm
We will see how helpful people will feel Obama is in say 25 days from now when this mess still remains….
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
12:12 pm
Leave it to libtards to think insurance companies should cover losses they weren’t contracted to cover. Morons.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
12:12 pm
ragnar – ever been to Nashville or NYC? You can build all of Nashville with a few 2×4’s, some sheetrock and a coat of latex. NYC is a little more complicated. Oh, and, when you are able to travel without your parents, I suggest you go to NYC – you’ll see plenty of private industry. It’s pretty much the capital of private industry for the world.
iggy
October 31st, 2012
12:14 pm
“I’m surprised at how many in the Northeast don’t have flood insurance.”
Really? Everyone knows how much more intelligent northerners are than us dumb southerners. They probably have piggy banks stashed full of dollars to pay for their lack of flood insurance ie, they choose to “self-insure.”
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
12:15 pm
Lil Barry – guess you’re including Trent Lott as a libtard. On another note, I’m assuming OWS is today’s Rush/Fox topic. There’s got to be a reason so many sheeple are commenting on it.
JDW
October 31st, 2012
12:22 pm
@Kyle…fair enough…I don’t think Romney is heartless just wrong and without concrete political beliefs.
BTW, Silver has one of the more interesting looks at the numbers today…boils down to state polls are always more accurate, they don’t agree with the National Tracking polls and EVERY site that aggregates poll data has reached the same conclusion on the current status of the race.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/31/oct-30-what-state-polls-suggest-about-the-national-popular-vote/
cc
October 31st, 2012
12:23 pm
Hmmm . . . Michigan may be up for grabs? What a shock!
iggy
October 31st, 2012
12:25 pm
“The whole thing seems way less dramatized (despite far wider destruction affecting probably 5-10x the number of people). Why is that?”
Because at this point, it isnt Bushs fault. Should it become Bushs fault the coverage will become intense with addl aspects of rape, murder, extortion, robberys, and just general chaos.
BenDaho
October 31st, 2012
12:25 pm
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
12:12 pm
ragnar – ever been to Nashville or NYC? You can build all of Nashville with a few 2×4’s, some sheetrock and a coat of latex. NYC is a little more complicated. Oh, and, when you are able to travel without your parents, I suggest you go to NYC – you’ll see plenty of private industry. It’s pretty much the capital of private industry for the world.
It won’t be for too much longer so you better get there soon ragnar.
http://247wallst.com/2012/03/19/the-six-states-where-tax-revenues-are-soaring/3/
Tealiban Party
October 31st, 2012
12:27 pm
Tuesday, on “Fox and Friends,” NJ Governor Chris Christie was asked by host Steve Doocy… “whether he would invite Mitt Romney to New Jersey to survey storm damage.
“I have a job to do,” he said. “I’ve got 2.4 million people out of power, I’ve got devastation on the shore, I’ve got floods in the northern part of my state. If you think right now I give a damn about presidential politics then you don’t know me.”
“I have no idea, nor am I the least bit concerned or interested,” he said. “I’ve got a job to do here in New Jersey that’s much bigger than presidential politics and I could care less about any of that stuff.”
http://thehill.com/video/campaign/264853-gov-christie-i-dont-give-a-damn-about-presidential-politics-right-now
cc
October 31st, 2012
12:29 pm
“with addl aspects of rape, murder, extortion, robberys, and just general chaos.”
iggy, you left out looting!
MarkV
October 31st, 2012
12:30 pm
I have read many Kyle’s articles, which I had my reservations with, but I do not remember one so utterly ridiculous. Kyle selects a few meaningless tweets from OCW and from them spins a whole set of nonsense.
“I do, however, think these messages betray an astounding lack of recognition that free-market capitalism is the most accurate system mankind has yet devised to represent how members of a community want to interact with one another.”
Capitalism is “an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth.” It is the most efficient system for this purpose, but that does not, by itself, “represent” how members of a community want to interact with one another. Members of some primitive society, which does not have the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth of a modern capitalist society, still might have an even better way “to interact with one another.” What do the words “accurate system” mean anyway in this respect? ACCURATE?
But the purpose of Kyle’s article seems obvious: to counteract the recognition, that in time of a natural disaster, such as hurricane Sandy, we do indeed want the government to help those in need, and in case of such a large area destruction, it is the federal government that has the means and is best positioned to provide assistance. It is quite ridiculous to argue that “the private sector is often quicker and more efficient in delivering aid than government agencies,” and presenting as evidence “what Wal-Mart famously demonstrated in post-Katrina New Orleans,” to cover the incompetence of the Bush administration.
It is equally ridiculous to compare something nice that president Obama said in the past about OWS in general with the very specific view that Mitt Romney presented in the specific case of disaster relief, and which has now become a political liability.
cc
October 31st, 2012
12:31 pm
iggy:
You also left out sniping at police officers!
iggy
October 31st, 2012
12:31 pm
Oh yeah…and coolers of Heineken being dragged thru the murky waters.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
12:32 pm
“It is quite ridiculous to argue that “the private sector is often quicker and more efficient in delivering aid than government agencies”
Actually, it isn’t ridiculous, as the Red Cross proves each and every disaster, MarkV.
cc
October 31st, 2012
12:35 pm
. . . and who can ever forget the interview of the displaced mother who said, “My chirrun have to commit crimes in a strange city!”
david c
October 31st, 2012
12:41 pm
“Leave it to libtards to think insurance companies should cover losses they weren’t contracted to cover. Morons.”
You mean libtards like Trent Lott?
Hillbilly D
October 31st, 2012
12:43 pm
You can build all of Nashville with a few 2×4’s, some sheetrock and a coat of latex.
Not hardly.
JDW
October 31st, 2012
12:44 pm
@iggy…”Because at this point, it isnt Bushs fault. Should it become Bushs fault the coverage will become intense with addl aspects of rape, murder, extortion, robberys, and just general chaos”
Wrong…its because unlike Katrina the government was prepared and has won nothing but praise from those invovled.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
12:45 pm
Maybe the people in the Middle Atlantic and Northeast are just smarter and actually paid heed to the warning given them
The adequate, incessant repetition of the danger is the difference between Katrina and Sandy. Nagin was told he would need 24 hours to evacuate the city but he waited until there were only 12 hours left. He also turned down an empty Amtrak train offering a free ride to get citizens out of harms way.
We learned a lesson during Katrina – that’s why we were inundated from Friday to Sunday last week.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
12:46 pm
Nothing in those tweets is saying capitalism is bad; it’s saying this is an opportunity to put aside the greed and remember we are a community/society/country.
teaching taxpayer
October 31st, 2012
12:46 pm
@Lil Barry, I understand insults, even nasty ones, are par for the course on these blogs. Your “-tards” as your insult of choice for liberals tells us a lot more about you then it does about liberals, however. Haven’t you learned by now that insulting people with a legitimate disability is low, very low. I think you can do better — can you?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
12:48 pm
You can build all of Nashville with a few 2×4’s, some sheetrock and a coat of latex.
And a couple of gee-tars. Don’t forget them gee-tars.
iggy
October 31st, 2012
12:50 pm
“Wrong…its because unlike Katrina the government was prepared and has won nothing but praise from those invovled.”
Agreed. During Katrina, State and Local Govt failed miserably.
The Gov of LA and Mayor of NO refused to request help from the Feds until after all hell had broken loose and found they needed a scapegoat on which to lay their stupidity.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
12:50 pm
A close friend’s grandparents were living in Nashville at that time. They weren’t paying attention to the news and decided to drive out to dinner. They got washed away in their car and drowned.
teaching taxpayer
October 31st, 2012
12:51 pm
@cc, FYI, the reports of snipers shooting at rescue workers and police in NOLA after Katrina are almost certainly an urban myth.
iggy
October 31st, 2012
12:51 pm
“They got washed away in their car and drowned.”
Well I guess they wont make that mistake again…DOH!
iggy
October 31st, 2012
12:52 pm
@tt. Most certianly they are not urban myth.
NEXT!!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
12:52 pm
now iggy, the state and local governments didn’t deliver toxic FEMA trailers to those citizens.
You have to admit putting Brownie in that position was about as smart as trying to put Harriet Myers on the Supreme Court.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
12:53 pm
Haven’t you learned by now that insulting people with a legitimate disability is low, very low.
———-
So you think being a liberal is a legitimate disability? I’d put it in the same class as alcoholism–a personality flaw.
iggy
October 31st, 2012
12:58 pm
Something yet addressed that has me very worried. I was curious if anyone has seen the reports on Snooki, “The Situation”, J Bow Wow and the others? Did they make it thru the hurricane ok? It would be a shame to loose such national treasures.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
1:02 pm
Yeah, iggy, the big bad mayor of New Orleans stopped the itty-bitty feds from coming into the area and helping after Katrina. Even you can’t believe the things you come up with.
Hillbilly D
October 31st, 2012
1:04 pm
Just as a point of interest, I was watching the TV the other night, forget which channel, and they were talking with local officials in NJ. These officials were talking about people who lived on one of the barrier islands, who had declined to evacuate when they were told to. After things started happening and the rising waters had cut off access to the island, people who had stayed started calling in on cell phones, asking for help. The moral of the story is that no matter where these things occur, there are always going to be some people who don’t use good common sense. That’s just the nature of humans.
It’s kind of pointless to make snide remarks about folks in one place or another, as humans act pretty much the same everywhere.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
1:06 pm
Comparing Katrina (the storm) to Sandy (the storm) and the devastation each caused is moronic at best. As does trying to compare the responses to each.
The only similarity is that both regions had days of warning to evacuate. New Orleans residents chose to ignore those warnings and didn’t have a much of an alternative to go to even if they had. East Coast residents either heeded the warnings or had better alternatives (as in higher buildings and ground to go to).
What people forget about the main issue regarding Katrina was that rescue took priority over recovery in that instance, where the reverse is true with Sandy. No amount of preparedness could make up for the incompetence of the local officials and residents of New Orleans, and the physical situation of massive flooding had no solution. It’s not as if you could get large boats into the area due to deeper drafts, so you were limited to smaller boats.
As far as flooding is concerned, most of the remaining flooding just days after Sandy is gone, largely remaining in tunnels underground. The US Army Corps of Engineers are pumping those out as fast as they can, but how do you pump out an entire city / county worth of water following a broken levee? Logic and physical differences in size, scope and elevation says that Katrina’s issues were exponentially worse to address, and couldn’t be undertaken until the people in danger were rescued first.
This is not to say that everything went well, or even acceptable in the case of the Federal response to Katrina, but to compare it to the response to Sandy displays a lack of intelligence all too frequently seen on this blog.
iggy
October 31st, 2012
1:07 pm
Nice try Randy…
NEXT!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
1:14 pm
Regarding the divergent views: So, some of you think we should have 50 FEMA-type institutions – one for each state – instead of a single unit? With all the duplication that would bring in personnel, equipment, resources, etc?
Do we need 50 Marine Corps, each with a full slate of equipment, facilities, and personnel?? Do we need 50 postal service systems – each set up differently, some with new computer software, some on decade-old software? Some with up to date training and access to the latest equipment and some a bit lagging?
And if you pass it to the private sector, how/who is going to make money on it? How are we going to treat those who make money off people in dire situations?
ideasbm
October 31st, 2012
1:14 pm
It is how stupid the press is. When Obama had his cabinet behind him and in a televised interview, he told the press I have told the agencies to bypass the red tape and LEAN FORWARD….
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
1:17 pm
Finn, do you even know what aid, specifically, the government is providing right now?
Michael H. Smith
October 31st, 2012
1:17 pm
Liberals do so hate any idea whatsoever of a weak central Federal government of limited size and powers that is subject to the near unlimited powers of State governments.
Signified
October 31st, 2012
1:23 pm
Why is it always “us vs. them” with you, Kyle? Typical right-wing divisive ‘wedge’ style analysis, day i and day out. Capitalism isn’t “all good” and everything else isn’t “all bad” – an intellectually honest reading of history and reality bears that out, but all you care about is 51% of America, and you think everyone else should just shut up and fall in line. Pathetic, and intellectually bankrupt.
Oh, and by the way – if you think the US economy is truly a “free market”, you need to go back to college. At best it is a highly (and very imbalanced) regulated-for-specific-industries-and-outcomes market (not free at all), and at worst, it is a Plutocracy. You do know what that means, right? You should – it is the natural end result of your regularly simplistic take on policy.
Kyle Wingfield
October 31st, 2012
1:29 pm
Gotta love someone who asks why it’s “always ‘us vs. them’ ” with me, then goes on to ascribe it to “typical right-wing divisive ‘wedge’ style analysis.” Sounds like someone has an unacknowledged “us vs. them” problem of their own.
stands for decibels
October 31st, 2012
1:30 pm
President Obama has said nice things in the past about OWS
ok, you made me look. Here’s what he’s quoted as saying:
“I understand the frustrations being expressed in those protests,” Obama told ABC News senior White House correspondent Jake Tapper in the interview to air this evening on ABC News “Nightline” from Jamestown, N.C.
“In some ways, they’re not that different from some of the protests that we saw coming from the Tea Party. Both on the left and the right, I think people feel separated from their government. They feel that their institutions aren’t looking out for them,” he said.
Just to be nitpicky, because that’s what I do–this is only a “nice thing” to say about OWS if you happen to believe that the Tea Partiers have been especially justified in their protests.
If, on the other hand, you think Tea Partiers are (say) a whiny bunch of ill-informed ingrates, it’s not all that nice, really.
Darwin
October 31st, 2012
1:31 pm
Isn’t it true that disaster relief has gone to million dollar homes built on the shores of N.C. and other coastal areas hit by hurricanes? They build on high risk properties and get bailed out by the government each time a storm blows it down. And then they build it again. Just asking.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
1:32 pm
Yeah, Kyle – divisive liberals – or, “libtards” as the right likes to call them, in their non-divisive way.
Kyle Wingfield
October 31st, 2012
1:33 pm
stands: I was referring to the “we are on their side” part.
stands for decibels
October 31st, 2012
1:36 pm
Kyle, so you mean this…
“The most important thing we can do right now is those of us in leadership letting people know that we understand their struggles and we are on their side, and that we want to set up a system in which hard work, responsibility, doing what you’re supposed to do, is rewarded,” Obama said. “And that people who are irresponsible, who are reckless, who don’t feel a sense of obligation to their communities and their companies and their workers that those folks aren’t rewarded.”
That would appear to be addressing a much larger group of people than just OWS, but I get your overall point, thanks.
cc
October 31st, 2012
1:36 pm
“FYI, the reports of snipers shooting at rescue workers and police in NOLA after Katrina are almost certainly an urban myth.”
FYI, you can SAY that if you weren’t one of the people actually being SHOT at by the poor, poor, pitiful victims . . .
Dunwoody
October 31st, 2012
1:38 pm
Government done locally is always better. Why, we in Dunwoody formerly had to look all the way to Decatur to see Dekalb County’s incompetent leadership, whereas, now we only have to go a few blocks to see the City of Dunwoody’s incompetent leadership. It’s just more convenient.
hsn
October 31st, 2012
1:39 pm
Michael “You’re doing a heck of a job” Brown actually claimed Obama acted “too quickly” when he cancelled campaign events to help with hurricane Sandy relief efforts.
http://www.thedaily.com/article/2012/10/30/103012-news-brown-sandy/
What is wrong with you, right-wing nutcases? Kyle “Republican cheer-leading” Wingfield, how do you defend this? Even when the President does a great job in times of crises some con artist has to try to make him look bad. Are you guys that desperate? How many Republican Chris Christies exist today?
Kyle Wingfield
October 31st, 2012
1:41 pm
Randy: Yes, divisive liberals. The kind who say things like:
“Punch back twice as hard.”
Let’s “punish our enemies.”
“She is a typical white person…”
“I want you to argue with them and get in their face[s].”
Divisive things like that.
curious
October 31st, 2012
1:43 pm
How can Obama be running 1+ trillion $ deficits when it’s Congress that appropriates the $ ?
Kyle Wingfield
October 31st, 2012
1:44 pm
hsn: Why do you think it’s my job to defend, or not, anything that someone, somewhere, has said?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
1:47 pm
hsn, if the President can allegedly get his National Security briefings remotely (as many liberals on here defended) and if he had no problem going to sleep the night his ambassador to Libya was being murdered, then jetting off to Las Vegas for a campaign rally just hours following that, why must he be in Washington, D.C. to coordinate Sandy relief?
It’s not as if he’s on the front lines doing the work.
Master (de)Bater
October 31st, 2012
1:54 pm
Kyle @ 12:07 pm
I’m with Tiberius (at least I think it was him) that this, like governance, is best when the is balance built in to the system. These kinds of things should be handled partly BOTH ways, just like representation in the house and senate. In the Senate, each state is equally represented, and in the House each state is represented according to how large it is. In cases like this, there should be state-based, more federalistic relief, with states that have more disaster issues (i.e. CA, FL, LA, gulf states, etc.) where the state is responsible for getting a reasonable amount of disaster $ from its own citizens. However, the nature of natural disasters is that they can surprise, and so there should ALSO be relief that is centralized so that we all contribute to a degree. I think this kind of balanced approach is most consistent with the principles followed by our founding fathers. Wouldn’t you agree?
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
1:55 pm
we want to set up a system in which hard work, responsibility, doing what you’re supposed to do, is rewarded,” Obama said.
———–
When did it become government’s job to reward legal/constitutional behavior they like and punish behavior they don’t like?
Oh, right, when liberal fascists gained power.
@@
October 31st, 2012
1:56 pm
Some truth to what the OWSers tweeted.
I can recall working with the community of Sunnyside after the 2011 tornado. Government agents were armed and ready with a table, papers & chairs.
From what I could see, not many people engaged the red tape brigade. Too much work to be done.
Kyle Wingfield
October 31st, 2012
1:58 pm
Master @ 1:54: I wouldn’t argue with most of that or what Tiberius posted earlier.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
1:58 pm
All inclusive conservatives- like “the moochers vs. the producers” or not needing to care about 47% of the population? Like there are no hard working, decent people who happen to live on the wrong side of town. Oh, and run that “libtards” label past your hero, Sarah Palin, and see how well it goes over.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
2:00 pm
I doubt that Sarah Palin considers herself a libtard.
Get a grip.
Kyle Wingfield
October 31st, 2012
2:01 pm
Randy: My point was that both sides do this stuff. And you’ve never seen me use the word “libtard” myself. If you want to know why I allow it on the comments threads, see No. 2 on this list.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
2:03 pm
All for a photo op…
The Romney campaign changed a planned campaign event in Dayton, Ohio into a Hurricane Sandy “storm relief event,” but due to the last-minute change was left spending $5,000 at Walmart for “donations” to put on display.
~Buzzfeed
Kyle Wingfield
October 31st, 2012
2:06 pm
Finn: As opposed to Obama’s tour of NJ today? C’mon, man. Both sides are playing this game. We’re six days out from Election Day.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
2:08 pm
The left really do want Americans to have a lower standard of living than we now enjoy. The fringe, OWS for example, are honest about it and know that Obozo is their guy. The mainstream left want the policies that will deliver that lower standard of living but aren’t smart enough to see where they lead. Obozo is their guy, too.
God help us if they outnumber Americans next Tuesday.
Vote American.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 31st, 2012
2:08 pm
Ah, yes. Buzzfeed. The same site with the dopey ” reporter ” saying there was a 40% chance Romney would say something stupid.
Great pick, Finn.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
2:09 pm
Kyle’s favorite song:
“If Lovin’ Mitt is Wrong, I Don’t Wanna Be Right>”
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
2:11 pm
” reporter ” saying there was a 40% chance Romney would say something stupid.
LOL, I missed that. Romnay still has 6 days to play footsie in mouthie again.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 31st, 2012
2:17 pm
Yeah Finn, and a good thing Obama at the Red cross yesterday wasn’t a photo op . . .
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
2:18 pm
God help us if they outnumber Americans next Tuesday.
Ahh, you made it through the first 4 with all 20 fingers/toes (and 3 teeth). You’ll be ok for the next 4.
Master (de)Bater
October 31st, 2012
2:18 pm
David c @ 12:41 pm
“Leave it to libtards to think insurance companies should cover losses they weren’t contracted to cover. Morons.”
You mean libtards like Trent Lott?
So you too see how ridiculously even Trent Lott thinks when he starts thinking like a liberal, even for a moment!
@@
October 31st, 2012
2:21 pm
I can empathize.
Bronco Bama?
Too cute.
Signified
October 31st, 2012
2:24 pm
Nice try, Kyle, but you wrote the article with an “us and them” slant, and you almost always have that slant. I was just pointing it out, and pointing out that the right wing is the master of wedge issue politics (abortion, gay rights, voting rights, immigration… it’s a long list). You haven’t heard any of my take on it because I’m not writing the article, you are. I should say “editorial”, because you don’t write news, just opinion (which is fine, and probably sells, but it isn’t news and it isn’t fact).
And of course you ignored the important question – which is whether you think we actually live in a Free Market economy. I would avoid that one if I were you, also.
Beyond The Middle of the Road
October 31st, 2012
2:26 pm
Of course insurance companies shouldn’t be asked to pay more than what they’re contracted to cover. The insurance companies argued that the storm surge from the Hurricane constituted a flood which is not covered by most homeowners’ policies. Lott and others claimed that the wind caused the surge, and wind is a covered peril under almost all policies. So they were arguing over a technicality.
Del
October 31st, 2012
2:26 pm
Obama spoke well of OWS when he and fellow Democrats thought that the movement would be as formidable for them as the Tea Party was for Republicans in the mid-term election. When the OWS behavior began to embarrass Democrats they turned away. The Federal government should and does play a role in disaster relief, however, state and local government should play the bigger role along with the local communities, faith based organizations and private business The Fed should maintain mostly a supporting role for those entities.
Beyond The Middle of the Road
October 31st, 2012
2:29 pm
Oh, and while I normally gloss over all the epithets, vulgarity and name-calling that goes on in these forums… Barry’s insistence that anyone who doesn’t vote the way he prefers isn’t an American crosses over the line IMHO.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
2:35 pm
It must be OWS day on the Rush hour or something. Liberals mocked them as much as conservatives hated them (see The Colbert Report for some good stuff). The problem with OWS was that their little burning-man circus managed to divert attention away from the real problems with banks too big to fail, disclosure and risk management that nearly sank the economy. The people that profited owe a lot to OWS for taking the focus off of them. Oh, and they also want you to vote for Romney.
Master (de)Bater
October 31st, 2012
2:36 pm
What Del said @ 2:26 pm, ditto.
iggy
October 31st, 2012
2:38 pm
*** Great News!!! ***
As I understand, Pres Oblunder and AF-1 have touched down in NJ. Chris should tell OBlunder. “Ok Daddy Long Legs. Are these the shovel ready jobs you were referring too?”
BenDaho
October 31st, 2012
2:41 pm
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
1:06 pm
Comparing Katrina (the storm) to Sandy (the storm) and the devastation each caused is moronic at best. As does trying to compare the responses to each.
The moronic thing about the Katrina catastrophe is allowing morons to rebuild below sea level in an area that has a bullseye on it from mother nature. What’s the cutoff on the number of rebuilds in New Orleans?
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
2:45 pm
There are good private charities that don’t pay their execs over $500,000 per year. I’m sure the Red Cross does some great things, but here some comments on the Red Cross from others:
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.reviews&orgid=3277
Redcoat
October 31st, 2012
2:48 pm
Unemployed can now get to work cleaning up…….to keep their “unemployment” coming until all the clean up is finished. Should be a work-ready clean up force! Plenty of very willing, dedicated, able bodied pool of eager-to-work people ready to go.
Interested Observer
October 31st, 2012
2:49 pm
Re: “After all, liberals like to say government is ’simply the name we give to the things we choose to do together.’ That sentiment, however, suggests everyone is always on board with what government takes from them”
I’d like to make a small correction to Kyle’s original post. That liberal sentiment mentioned above more accurately suggests that THE MAJORITY OF US is, ostensibly, on board what the government does (that’s sort of how a democracy works). That would include taking such actions as starting a war of choice in Iraq, torturing prisoners of war in violation of the Geneva Conventions, spying on Americans without warrants, passing legislation specifically to prevent a husband from ending life support for his comatose wife, or conversely, electing representatives who would end such practices.
Also, I don’t know how much those who participate in or sympathize with Occupy Wall Street feel about capitalism, but for the record, the behaviors of the big banks and big business that OWS groups are fighting to end to are not part of and have nothing to do with capitalism…to the contrary.
When liberals fight for legislation to increase transparency, give shareholders rights over the compensation of corporate managers, and the like, they are the one’s who are promoting capitalism.
Jiggle the Handle
October 31st, 2012
2:56 pm
Tiberius–
Just as I was about to applaud the literacy and thoughtfulness of your comments, you allowed other posters to get under your skin and devolved to the same level. Oh, well, at least I know you have it in you, so keep posting.
As a Proud Progressive I’m guessing my political philosophy diverges from yours by a country mile, but I appreciate your thoughts and comments. It was a decent discussion until the snarky comments started launching from BOTH camps.
I agree that a Katrina-Sandy comparison is probably pointless, if for no other reason than Katrina was such a painful lesson in the expected outcome of incompetence. Under W, FEMA became a bastion of political appointees–most having no background or experience in emergency crisis management–and it showed. What’s little known is that these political appointees successfully ran off a number of key, highly experienced FEMA professionals who operated at the “ground level” during emergencies. FEMA was management and experience depleted well before Katrina hit.
Compare that to today. Obama appointed Craig Fugate as FEMA director, a Jeb Bush appointee, I might add. He used to run the Florida emergency management operation. I would say he knows a thing or two about crisis management and weather-related disasters. On an interview this morning, he was clear that the respective state governors were calling the shots, making the requests and establishing priorities related to resource deployment. He said his job was to provide them with all possible support. They were essentially his boss.
I will also say that Obama has been engaged and accessible throughout the crisis. Compare his recent actions to that of a ” returning from vacation fly-over in Air Force One.” Deploying resources and manpower prior to the storm was the smart thing to do. Credit to Gov Christie for his almost effusive remarks complimenting the Prez on the role he has played and the assistance he has provided during this crisis. It was a classy thing to say from someone who in my opinion hasn’t always been very classy–but I have much greater respect for Christie as a result of his comments.
-Jiggle
Dusty
October 31st, 2012
2:57 pm
Del had it right at 2:36. On a catastrophe as large as Huricane Sandy, we need government in all forms working i.e. federal, state and local. I commend all(private) power companies who seem to be rushing to help wherever they are needed. Red Cross is wondergul and Americans all over the country are doing what they can in many ways. The American way!!!
As to Katrina, it was my understanding that Federal aid cannot be given to a state until a governor ASKS for it. The governor of Louisiana waited to ask for help and that was the first big delay besides the local government in disarray.
Gov. Christi, now one of my favorite politicians, got his state ready and the Federals knew exactly what he expected. President Obama’s response was good and proper. Sometimes he does something right. Too bad it doesn’t happen more often. But, when a huge disaster happens, we all stand together.
JDW
October 31st, 2012
2:58 pm
@Kyle…”As opposed to Obama’s tour of NJ today? C’mon, man. Both sides are playing this game. We’re six days out from Election Day”
Except for one minor detail…name an American President, any one you can remember that HAS NOT visited a disaster site such as this one…they all do election or not. Obama is doing what he would in this situation regardless of the election. Romney is as always attempting to mislead.
BTW did you see GM’s comment on his latest ad in the same vein?…
“The accusation drew a dismissive response from a GM spokesman, who explained, “We’ve clearly entered some parallel universe during these last few days.”
Romney, along with many of those around here have been in a parallel universe for some time.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57542993/gm-like-chrysler-refutes-romneys-auto-industry-ad/
You don't say
October 31st, 2012
3:01 pm
“I commend all(private) power companies who seem to be rushing to help wherever they are needed.”
I think it is awesome that these companies have contractual agreements to help each other. Nothing new and nothing done out of benevolence. They are getting paid to do what they are doing.
I think it is great, however it is not nor has it ever been charity.
Master (de)Bater
October 31st, 2012
3:06 pm
Observer @ 2:49 pm
“When liberals fight for legislation to increase transparency, give shareholders rights over the compensation of corporate managers, and the like, they are the one’s who are promoting capitalism.”
Not really, IO. You may like what they are doing, and may believe it to be noble–I think a part of it is also–but it is not promoting capitalism. Voting with their dollars (or the withholding of those dollars) would be doing BOTH promoting capitalism and doing what you like too. If you believe that a certain company is unfairly compensating their employees, then don’t do business with that company, and don’t buy their stock…unless of course the profit you might make from investing in that company is enough to make you compromise on what you believe. Your choice. That is the freedom that is capitalism.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
3:15 pm
Condi now says to stop jumping to conclusions on Benghazi.
She must be a RINO?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
3:15 pm
“When liberals fight for legislation to increase transparency, give shareholders rights over the compensation of corporate managers, and the like, they are the one’s who are promoting capitalism.”
Sorry, Interested Observer, but when legislation is used in ANY manner, that isn’t promoting capitalism one bit.
And Randy Ayn, if you’re going to have someone oversee a multi-billion $$ enterprise of such importance, you’d better have someone worth paying $500 large per year at the helm.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
3:17 pm
On a catastrophe as large as Huricane Sandy, we need government
SOCIALIST!
Don Abernethy
October 31st, 2012
3:23 pm
All I know to do is to pray for the people who were in the storm. But I wonder if the water washed out all the “trash” at the New York Times?
Master (de)Bater
October 31st, 2012
3:25 pm
Jiggle @ 2:56 pm
“Credit to Gov Christie for his almost effusive remarks complimenting the Prez on the role he has played and the assistance he has provided during this crisis. It was a classy thing to say from someone who in my opinion hasn’t always been very classy–but I have much greater respect for Christie as a result of his comments.”
The funny thing about your comment, Jiggle, is that Governor Christie was saying these things, along with many other things, somewhat combatantly, combating the idea that because he would be “supporting” Mr. Obama with his comments that maybe he shouldn’t say them. He was not saying all these things to be “classy.” He was saying them because they are true! What is funny is that this is his modus operandus, but you only recognize him as “classy” or “nice” or “good” when he speaks truth that you happen to agree with. He, more than any politician I can think of, speaks the truth most of the time, and he does so unapologetically, and quite frequently. I certainly didn’t see you calling him “classy” or singing his praises after his convention keynote.
I think Chris Christie is one of the strongest American leaders I’ve seen in a long time, and he puts our current president to shame most of the time. But Obama is not wrong 100% of the time, just way more than a president should be. Admitting that Obama is performing well on this one thing doesn’t make up for his incompetence that we experience a majority of the time. I think New Jersey is fortunate right now that Christie is in charge there. Few could do it better.
Dusty
October 31st, 2012
3:32 pm
Finn 3:17
SOCIALIST! I haven’t been a socialist since I was three years old.
At that time I changed from demanding care, control and cuisine from everybody else and started my own realization.
You should try such a change sometimes.
.
Kyle Wingfield
October 31st, 2012
3:36 pm
Signified @ 2:24: Funny you should mention those wedge issues, since the Obama campaign has spent so much of this election playing up those very issues, particularly abortion, while the Romney campaign keeps trying to talk about the economy. My earlier comment was merely pointing out the obvious, namely that you do a whole lot of “us and them” while decrying “us and them.” And as I seem to have to point out on this blog every day lately, I make no attempt to hide the fact that I’m an opinion writer. If you have a problem with opinion writing, I suggest you stick to other sections of AJC.com.
And I didn’t take your earlier question about the free-market economy seriously because I didn’t think anyone was laboring under the impression that that’s what we have.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
3:37 pm
Barry’s insistence that anyone who doesn’t vote the way he prefers isn’t an American crosses over the line
————-
It’s not about what I prefer. It’s about opposing someone who doesn’t like America.
Don’t forget to apologize to your children and grandchildren after you vote for Obozo.
Dusty
October 31st, 2012
3:40 pm
Yes, indeed, we all enjoy the work of a fine Republican, Governor Christie. He’s so typical. ABSOLUTELY!
You don't say
October 31st, 2012
3:42 pm
“At that time I changed from demanding care, control and cuisine from everybody else and started my own realization.”
You cooked for yourself at 3? Drove yourself around? Paid for your own housing, clothes, etc? And on and on.
WOW.
You were some kind of prodigy. Congratulations.
MrLiberty
October 31st, 2012
3:45 pm
Kyle, sadly Sandy will not prompt two “sharply divergent” views of how society should respond. Those of you that still actually believe there is a fundamental difference between the republican and democratic parties, or their presidential candidates would like to believe that there are two “sharply divergent” views being kicked around, but there is really just two shades of the same view – the big government view. On one hand we have republicans who have virtually NO respect for the free market but like to pretend they do when it serves their candidacy, and democrats who have absolutely NO respect for the free market when it serves their candidacy but love it immensely when it gets them the big house, the new iPad, the cup of Starbucks, a generally functioning society despite all the socialist/fascist governmental involvement, etc.
The OWS folks have correctly identified a serious problem in our society – big business/corporatism. We do not have behemoth corporations because the free market has blessed them with much business. They are huge because government intervention, either in the form of regulations that impede their competition, easy money from the Federal Reserve, tariffs against foreign competition, taxes that hurt their competition, cushy government contracts, direct subsidies, or similar actions have enabled them to gain an upper hand or have destroyed the competition that would have kept their prices low and their excesses in check. Sadly these folks confuse corporatism with the free market, but they are not alone. If they would bother to educate themselves and understand the difference, they would be a great force for freedom in this country.
The republicans suffer from the same distorted view of the economy. They express support for big business without apology, but cannot recognize that republican-supported policies have little or nothing to do with the free market. Insurance is a great example. While insurance is the right mechanism for hedging one’s bets against natural disasters, proper signals from insurance companies require a truly free and competitive market. Low cost government flood insurance – that most republicans applaud – creates a moral hazard that encourages folks to live in flood-prone areas against common sense. A free market insurance provider would charge rates that would make such construction prohibitively expensive – problem solved. But in their quest for greater property tax revenues and to buy the votes of local developers, republicans and democrats alike on city councils and in state legislatures demand coverage of these areas by the flood insurance programs so that houses can be built and mortgage-holders will be willing to lend to unsuspecting homeowners (all while the taxpayer picks up the tab). Republicans do not favor a free market in insurance either, often being a party to state mandates on insurance coverage, restrictions on insurance company operations, and restrictions on interstate sales of insurance. Big government solutions, quite apart from a free market, are routinely supported by republicans of all stripes (including so-called conservatives – big war and empire come immediately to mind).
Yes, there are plenty of folks who advocate a truly voluntary, cooperative solution to all of society’s problems, but they have no voice in either the democratic or republican parties. Well, they thought they had a voice with Ron Paul, but republican leadership and the Mitt Romney/big corporatism machine shut that effort down. They find great sympathy in the Libertarian Party, but ballot access laws and other bi-partisan collusion works to make their success impossible. Tragically, when the party that is supposed to be “pro free market” cannot tell the difference between corporatism and free market capitalism, then freedom for all Americans is doomed. That is the situation in which we find ourselves today.
Master (de)Bater
October 31st, 2012
3:45 pm
Finn @ 3:15 pm
“Condi now says to stop jumping to conclusions on Benghazi.
She must be a RINO?”
Ha! Would repeatedly stating for the record that the Bengazi attack was caused by a video before we actually KNEW that be the “jumping to conclusions” we shouldn’t DO? Maybe state only what we know, huh? But you wouldn’t like that! The O admin certainly didn’t.
“How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” (Luke 6:42 NIV)
Master (de)Bater
October 31st, 2012
3:49 pm
Benghazi. Sorry.
Dusty
October 31st, 2012
3:51 pm
YOU DON’T SAY, 3:42
Of course I was a prodigy!! First one out the birdnest.
Why are you still living in your mother’s basement?.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
3:59 pm
Well, they thought they had a voice with Ron Paul, but republican leadership and the Mitt Romney/big corporatism machine shut that effort down.
———
No, Ron Paul failed to gain enough support to stay in the race and win the nomination. Ron Paul had the decency to step aside upon that realization. Too bad so many of his supporters don’t have the same classiness and instead cry and run home with their ball.
Jiggle the Handle
October 31st, 2012
4:06 pm
Master @3:25
“I think Chris Christie is one of the strongest American leaders I’ve seen in a long time, and he puts our current president to shame most of the time. ”
Well, obviously I agree only partially. Christie is a strong leader and I appreciate the fact he seems to operate completely without any filter when he speaks his mind. For a politician to do that is exceedingly rare– so rare that his words and style appear disarmingly refreshing and there is a tendency to attach a higher level of candor or truth to everything he says. I don’t think that’s the case. He’s wrong as often as he is right. As they say, “you can can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.”
I think Christie has the makings of a great populist candidate if he can manage to avoid the rigid ideology of the Right Wing Crazies that currently defines the Republican Party. However, it remains to be seen if his bombastic and often bullying style lends itself to effective governing.
I’ll take “Cool Hand Obama” over Christie any day. My Grandmother used to say “an empty wagon always rattles the loudest.”
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
4:07 pm
Aside from the kook blaming Sandy on the gays, how about this guy?
• It’s an excuse for the government to take your guns! Cam Edwards, a spokesman for the National Rifle Association (NRA), went on conspiracy-monger Glenn Beck’s TV show Monday to warn not about the cause of the storm — but rather the way he says the Obama administration will use it.
alternet.org
You don't say
October 31st, 2012
4:11 pm
Dusty
Thanks for confirming you lie.
It seems to come easy for you.
Speaking of “typical”………….
You don't say
October 31st, 2012
4:14 pm
And like to do so……..
Bet it comes honest…………….. And that is certainly the irony of it all.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
4:15 pm
Christie might be able to beat Hillary in 2016. We will probably find out.
Their respective 2016 campaigns start next Wednesday.
mwuahahahahahhaha
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
4:22 pm
hillary’s not enough of a clown to be a dummycrat presidential kandidate, although she comes awfully close.
Nope, gonna be biden in 2016.
Trying to unseat President Romney, what a spectacle that will be, hahahaha.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
4:26 pm
biden holds forth in Florida today, telling the good and decent people out to get a good laugh at his rally that the Cleveland Plains Dealer is their number one newspaper.
This dude’s a professional democrat.
JDW
October 31st, 2012
4:28 pm
@Finn…”Their respective 2016 campaigns start next Wednesday.”
Naw they will wait until Friday…it will take that long for the Repugnican Nation to stop looking like this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
4:34 pm
Hillary will be almost 70 in 2016, and I’m not sure she wants to take on President Romney’s re-election campaign at that age.
You don't say
October 31st, 2012
4:38 pm
Tiberius
Do you have the winning numbers for the lottery tonight?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
4:39 pm
I doubt if the dummycrats are scouring the back alleys of Kenya for their 2016 nominee, like they did in 2008.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
4:41 pm
biden will be one oh four in 2016 and probably just as sharp as he is now.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
4:43 pm
You don’t say, at some point you might recognize a bit of whimsy or humor, but I suspect not in your current lifetime.
That’s what the little winky face denotes, blowhard.
You don't say
October 31st, 2012
4:46 pm
Tiberius
Don’t cry like a little baby. You have asked the same exact question before when left leaning bloggers have made claims about Obama winning.
Are you not able to take what you give? Based on the lottery question alone, it appears not.
But do cry on.
Notice the little smiley face, blowhard
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
4:50 pm
“You have asked the same exact question before when left leaning bloggers have made claims about Obama winning.”
Yes, I have. But those posts have NOT been done in the same fashion as I did, but rather, as absolute statements of unknown fact by those posters.
So move on, blowhard. If you cannot understand the English language, I suggest you go back to school and learn it properly this time.
You don't say
October 31st, 2012
4:54 pm
Cry on Tiberius, cry on
At least you are consistent.
You don't say
October 31st, 2012
4:57 pm
And get your last word in so you can feel better about yourself
Blowhard
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
5:06 pm
Anybody else remember how the libs screeched and wailed on Valerie Plame, a CIA agent hiding in the US, well, except for when she was doing magazine photo shoots, had her name “outed,” but the exact same libs haven’t a peep for the treasonous abandonment of Benghazi?
Their shame knows no boundary.
Sick of Progs
October 31st, 2012
5:09 pm
You don’t say
October 31st, 2012
3:42 pm
“At that time I changed from demanding care, control and cuisine from everybody else and started my own realization.”
You cooked for yourself at 3? Drove yourself around? Paid for your own housing, clothes, etc? And on and on.
WOW.
You were some kind of prodigy. Congratulations.
And just to think, O’budgetless and his ho have personal chefs, travel planners, chauffers, wardrobe managers, propagandists, dog washers etc. Pretty good for a 3 year old!
Sick of Progs
October 31st, 2012
5:11 pm
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin…
October 31st, 2012
4:39 pm
I doubt if the dummycrats are scouring the back alleys of Kenya for their 2016 nominee, like they did in 2008.
Nope, they’re out combing the pineapple fields of Hawaii!
Sick of Progs
October 31st, 2012
5:13 pm
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin…
October 31st, 2012
4:41 pm
biden will be one oh four in 2016 and probably just as sharp as he is now.
He!!, how do you dumb down an 84 IQ? Get him a dribble bib.
Sick of Progs
October 31st, 2012
5:16 pm
Finn McCool (The System isn’t Broken; It’s Fixed)
October 31st, 2012
4:15 pm
Christie might be able to beat Hillary in 2016. We will probably find out.
Their respective 2016 campaigns start next Wednesday.
mwuahahahahahhaha
If she’s so spineless to throw herself on the sword for this halfrican, only a lib would be able to endorse that intestinal fortitude and endorse her as our nation’s representative to the world.
Mwuahahahahahahha
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
5:18 pm
You don’t say, I’m looking back on all the posts you’ve made on this subject, and shock of shocks, I find no posts that could even remotely be considered “thoughtful”.
Why am I not surprised?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
5:28 pm
Uh, Sick of Progs?
Your points would be better made if you refrained from terms such as “halfrican”.
Just sayin’.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
5:32 pm
Romney has no plan for the economy – or, at least no workable plan. In his famous 47% speech, he essentially admitted it. He thinks that by simply “showing up” he’ll make things better. Other than increase the incomes of the very, very rich, his policies will match Obama’s and his Federal Reserve will mirror Bernanke’s. That’s why social issues, such as women’s rights become the differeniating factors in the election. The right needs to keep those evangelicals and other social conservatives happy with some crumbs so they won’t notice that the middle class, to which many of them belong, is being screwed.
Don't Tread
October 31st, 2012
5:36 pm
As capitalism halts, we experience “an exceptional period of mutual support and common care.”
And apparently looting…would that be classified as “mutual support” or “common care”?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
5:40 pm
“Romney has no plan for the economy – or, at least no workable plan.”
Your opinion is noted, Randy Ayn, regardless how factually inaccurate it may be.
@@
October 31st, 2012
5:48 pm
Now the libs have kind things to say about Christie????
It wasn’t THAT long ago when they were calling him a loud-mouthed bully…not to mention FATSO.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
5:52 pm
Well, Tiberius, here’s a math problem for you. If Romney cuts taxes by $4.8 trillion over 10 years, but is going to make it revenue neutral by eliminating deductions, what is the dollar value of deductions that would need to be eliminated for this to work? Assume a 33% tax rate on the deductions eliminated, if you wish. It makes the numbers come closer. Now, compare your answer to the total deductions taken each year. You’ll find that he could eliminate all deductions and it still wouldn’t work.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
5:54 pm
Obozo had a plan for the economy, and it failed spectacularly. Unemployment went UP. Deficits went UP. Poverty went UP. Credit rating…DOWN.
Doing nothing would have produced better results than Obozo’s “plan”.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
5:55 pm
Randy, you didn’t give us an important number–GDP growth. It’s been pathetic during the failed Obozo regime.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
5:57 pm
Randy, Ayn, if you’re going to continue to use just one of many policies being espoused by Mitt Romney to help fix the economy, while ignoring the rest of them, you’re just not a complex enough thinker to be debating this issue.
Mitt Romney has proposed a 59-point plan to turn this economy around, son, and only ONE facet of that plan is a flattening of the tax rate. The economy runs on more than tax rates. Deal with it.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
6:05 pm
Tib – if you can blow a hole big enough to drive a semi through on the main point of Romney’s 59 point plan, you’ve blown up the whole plan.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
6:08 pm
I guess since YOU couldn’t do it, Randy, you expect Tib to?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
6:08 pm
And yet, it’s not the main point of Romney’s plan, despite you and the rest of your liberal buddies wishing to make it so.
Dave
October 31st, 2012
6:09 pm
“That doesn’t mean conservatives think government should be out of the disaster-relief business altogether — even if some of us think government should refrain from some other spending and set that money aside to make sure we don’t have to borrow money to cover these expenses, while others believe the more local and state governments can handle emergency management, the better it will be done. (Not to mention that the private sector is often quicker and more efficient in delivering aid than government agencies, as Wal-Mart famously demonstrated in post-Katrina New Orleans.)
“This topic tends not to get the thoughtful treatment it deserves in the midst of a crisis, and then it’s usually forgotten once the crisis leaves the headlines.”
So, the thoughtful treatment is? It will be interesting in a few years to compare the federal response to NOLA, Joplin and the the Northeast. The first disaster was on the GOP’s initial watch, the second and third with a Dem President and a Republican Congress. Both sides of the political spectrum have given lip service to the needs of New Orleans and Joplin and not a whole lot in the way of dollars down the road. There are more one percent folks in the path of this storm, I wonder how they will do with federal bucks?
To my mind, how we deal with catastrophes is how we should judge ourselves. If what is increasingly our “the hell with those that have little” attitude prevails, I think we will fail. What the well to do forget (I’m doing okay in the event you were wondering) is that the folks they don’t want to help eventually will be desperate enough to do things that might not be pleasant.
Kill what you eat as a political philosophy just doesn’t work.
Tealiban Party
October 31st, 2012
6:12 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American
October 31st, 2012
5:55 pm
Randy, you didn’t give us an important number–GDP growth. It’s been pathetic during the failed Obozo regime.
As noted many times on here before, Lil’ BB enjoyed the -8.9% GDP in Q4 2008, instead of the positive growth the United States has today.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
6:13 pm
Romney’s plan is to fix Obozo’s mistakes and return the economy to at least the average GDP growth (and likely higher given all the capital Obozo has driven to the sideline).
Stephenson Billings
October 31st, 2012
6:14 pm
BTW, Obama’s plan for sequestration calls for $900 million dollars to be cut from FEMA…. And in a recent interview with the Des Moines Register, Obama basically said he will go through with the sequestration AND let his tax cuts expire. And I was told only conservatives wanted “austerity”
mike
October 31st, 2012
6:22 pm
It’s really hard to grasp the enormity of the damage caused by Sandy until you see actual photos. This will keep you busy for a while….
http://www.weather.com/news/hurricane-sandy-pictures-photos-20121025
mike
October 31st, 2012
6:25 pm
Oh, and BTW, remember that last insurance bill you got for your homeowner’s insurance? You might want to frame it so you have something to remember what you used to pay for homeowner’s insurance.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
6:25 pm
Well, based on all of your responses on Rom’s economic plan, I guess we can say Rick Santorum was right about one thing – the GOP “will never have the elite, smart people on our side.”
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
6:29 pm
Oh, and Randy Ayn?
I’ll take a guy who has spent a lifetime creating jobs through sound economic principles over a guy who hasn’t created a single net new job in four years while bankrupting us in the process.
Stephenson Billings
October 31st, 2012
6:32 pm
Shameless Looters Display Stolen Goods On Twitter
http://www.infowars.com/shameless-looters-display-stolen-goods-on-twitter/
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
6:32 pm
Yeah,Republican businessmen have made great presidents. GW Bush. Herbert Hoover.
Goody Three Shoes
October 31st, 2012
6:36 pm
Stephenson
“Their is a war on for your mind”
Your boy Alex Jones the Ron Paul groupie is no fan of Obama or Romney
The NWO is outside your door
BOOOOOOO
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
6:38 pm
“Yeah,Republican businessmen have made great presidents.”
Well, Democrat community organizers haven’t done so well either, have they, Randy?
Goody Three Shoes
October 31st, 2012
6:38 pm
“There is…………….”
Stephenson Billings
October 31st, 2012
6:41 pm
don’t really care for Alex Jones….. but there wasn’t really any propaganda in that article.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
6:46 pm
I’ll take Obama’s record vs. GW Bush’s or Herbert Hoover’s any day.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
6:48 pm
Color me shocked, Randy.
But given the fact you don;t even understand the intricacies of economics (nor history), it doesn’t surprise me.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
6:49 pm
I think that would make a great slogan for Romney – In the great tradition of Republican businessmen presidents: Herbert Hoover, GW Bush and Willard Mitt Romney. Great Depression, Great Recession and…what? Great Apocalypse?
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
6:50 pm
Sure Tib – Romney’s plan is soooo subtle and nuanced that we just don’t understand it. Maybe it’s detailed in his tax returns.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
6:54 pm
“Romney’s plan is soooo subtle and nuanced that we just don’t understand it.”
No, it’s just that you cannot even grasp simple concepts, Randy.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
6:54 pm
Tib – lame. Try again.
Beyond The Middle of the Road
October 31st, 2012
6:56 pm
“Great Apocalypse?”
Nope, Zombie Apocalypse.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/10/30/why-is-joss-whedon-supporting-mitt-romney-hint-zombies/
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
7:00 pm
OK, Randy, let’s try this:
Name one specific piece of legislation signed by George W. Bush which directly contributed to the recession of 2008.
Let’s see if you really understand history or economics.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
7:03 pm
When did obozo get a “record?”
Are we talking about golf now?
JeninAtl
October 31st, 2012
7:06 pm
Kyle,
I agree with @MarkV, if you have nothing to write either work harder, promote an intern, or just skip a day. This is column unworthy of your name (actually anyone’s name) and appears to be grasping at unrelated, weak, and irrelevant straws. The phrase “Mumbo Jumbo” comes quickly to mind when reading it.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
7:11 pm
JeninAtl, if you don’t like it, don’t read it (and more especially don’t bother to comment on it).
cc
October 31st, 2012
7:11 pm
I Report@5:06 pm:
No, they have no shame. Every situation and every person is to be used to further their cause. What does four deaths mean to them?
I know that if I were serving my country at this time under this administration, I would evaluate my chances of surviving any given situation before I involved myself in it, knowing that I could NOT count on my country to aid me should events go badly. I wonder if those currently in service to our country feel that way?
dabir dalton
October 31st, 2012
7:12 pm
Kyle the conservative concept of the free market is at best a myth and at worst an outright lie promoted by conservatives like yourself. The truth is there is no such thing as a free market as either the market is regulated by the government to prevent corporations from selling tainted and deliberately poisoned food and other unsafe products to unsuspecting consumers. Otherwise corporations would dominate the market and conspire with each other to keep prices high, wages low and competitors out of the market until the economy overheats and crashes just as conservative economic policy allowed it to do in 1929 and 2008.
In regards to Wal-mart the Walton family is one of the richest families in America yet the majority of their employees are paid so low that many of them are forced to rely on welfare and – here in Georgia – on Peach Care to in order to get medical care for their children.
Unfortunately that is the reality of the so called free market and the private sector conservatives promote while covering their covetous nature with a robe of false morality just as their master Satan chooses to appear as an angel of light in his effort to deceive the very elect.
cc
October 31st, 2012
7:13 pm
JeninAtl:
Go on back to Bookie-man’s blog. I’m sure you are miseed there . . .
cc
October 31st, 2012
7:17 pm
“I’ll take Obama’s record vs. GW Bush’s or Herbert Hoover’s any day.”
Do I hear a nomination for “Dumbest Post of the Year”?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
7:19 pm
“Otherwise corporations would dominate the market and conspire with each other to keep prices high, wages low and competitors out of the market until the economy overheats and crashes just as conservative economic policy allowed it to do in 1929 and 2008. ”
dabir, you just flunked U.S. economic history.
But thanks for playing!
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
7:19 pm
Tib – did Bush sign off on tax cuts and get us in wars in two countries? Now, all the righties say that the deficit is our big problem, but this apparently didn’t bother them too much. Then there was the American Dream Downpayment Assistance Act that encouraged people to buy houses they couldn’t afford. Of course, it’s not always what you do – it’s what you didn’t do that hurts. For example, there was Bush’s Office of the Comptroller of the Currency shutting down New York State’s attempt to stop predatory lending. The Supreme Court had to get involved and ruled against Bush’s admin. Heck, even Scalia went against Bush on this one.
Now, I’ve done my part. You go work on that math problem I gave you on how to decrease tax deductions and make Mitt’s tax cuts revenue neutral. I’ve got to hand out some candy – a redistribution of sweets to the neighborhood moochers.
Master (de)Bater
October 31st, 2012
7:25 pm
Jiggle @ 4:06 pm
“I think Christie has the makings of a great populist candidate if he can manage to avoid the rigid ideology of the Right Wing Crazies that currently defines the Republican Party. However, it remains to be seen if his bombastic and often bullying style lends itself to effective governing.”
POPULIST? Have you not paid attention? A populist is one who tries to do what he thinks people want him to do or more importantly say what people want him to say. That is the OPPOSITE of what Christie usually does! He usually says what he thinks is the truth, and he doesn’t pull punches as he does it. He will be at a gathering discussing teachers’ union cuts with mostly teachers in the audience, and he will say mostly what they DON’T want to hear.
You sure we are talking about the same guy?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
7:32 pm
“did Bush sign off on tax cuts and get us in wars in two countries? Now, all the righties say that the deficit is our big problem, but this apparently didn’t bother them too much. Then there was the American Dream Downpayment Assistance Act that encouraged people to buy houses they couldn’t afford. Of course, it’s not always what you do – it’s what you didn’t do that hurts. For example, there was Bush’s Office of the Comptroller of the Currency shutting down New York State’s attempt to stop predatory lending.”
In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, Randy:
“What a maroon!”
So now two wars and a tax cut killed our economy? Really? THIS is your explanation? Prove it.
And the American Dream Downpayment Act which encouraged people to buy houses they couldn’t afford for a couple of years killed it, but the Community Re-investment Act which did the same thing for over 30 years didn’t do it?
And the state of New York is so powerful all by itself, that their lending policies killed the entire U.S. economy?
Pitiful. What’s it like to be brainwashed, Randy?
Bruno
October 31st, 2012
7:47 pm
Happy Halloweenie everyone.
To kick off the festivities, here’s “Ghost Dance” by Robbie Robertson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA0zpemMUow
Sure hope JamVet drops by. Lot of great Halloween songs.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
7:52 pm
Lull in the trick or treaters – OK, Tib – name 3 things – before 2008 – that Bush signed that stopped , or even slowed, predatory lending, mitigated the risk of CDOs, required financial backing for credit default swaps – anything at all Bush did to stop the meltdown. Where was his leadership? What bold steps did he take to get things under control? I guess you’re asking what it’s like to be brainwashed because you wish you had one to bathe.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
7:52 pm
A rat runs down the alley and a chill runs up your spine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6TzeuxwO7A
Hillbilly D
October 31st, 2012
7:53 pm
I commend all(private) power companies who seem to be rushing to help wherever they are needed.
In one of my previous incarnations, I worked for a power company. Yes, they are good to help out areas in time of need but it’s not entirely private. Everybody gets disaster funds out of the deal.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
7:54 pm
My one (and possibly only) contribution to music posts, Bruno:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0thH3qnHTbI
Monster Mash!
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
7:55 pm
Oh – and I love it when cons claim that a 30 year old law caused the meltdown. That’s really telling.
Bruno
October 31st, 2012
7:56 pm
Back at ya, Reporter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKpEoRlcHfA
Buzzy
October 31st, 2012
7:56 pm
Didn’t Romney say he wanted to get rid of FEMA? The guy is completely irresponsible. He’s full of it.
Some disasters are so big, the government is needed. I support volunteer efforts, but it won’t solve all the problems in a large disater.
Also, please don’t ever tell me that the private sector is all that great. I get nothing but voice mail when I call most businesses, and my cable company runs my blood pressure up just thinking about them. As Clark Howard says: Customer No Service. The government is not great, but the private sector has certainly gone down hill as well.
Bruno
October 31st, 2012
7:57 pm
Alright, got Tibi into the action!! Good call.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
7:58 pm
There’s no such thing as “predatory lending”. Loan terms are disclosed to the borrower and they either agree to them or they don’t. What you call “predatory lending” is more accurately called “being stupid”.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
7:58 pm
Oh, no, Randy, I’m not playing your game. I’m not the one blaming Bush. That’s YOUR forte.
Nor am I going to defend him, as I have little with which to defend him.
But I’m not the one who made the claim that Bush caused the recession of 2008 – YOU did.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
7:59 pm
Walking side by side with death, The devil mocks their every step
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odY8nff3h0w
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
7:59 pm
“Oh – and I love it when cons claim that a 30 year old law caused the meltdown.”
That’s because SOME of us understand the concept of “cause and effect”, Randy.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
8:01 pm
“Didn’t Romney say he wanted to get rid of FEMA?”
No. But don’t let those DNC talking points get you all flummoxed, Buzzy.
“Also, please don’t ever tell me that the private sector is all that great.”
Yeah, ’cause the greatest creator of jobs and wealth in the history of mankind sure shouldn’t be held up as something to emulate, now should it?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
8:02 pm
Ain’t got nobody waiting at home
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8DeO2pz2ug
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
8:02 pm
“What you call “predatory lending” is more accurately called “being stupid”.”
Can’t disagree with you there, LBB.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
8:07 pm
There would have been no financial meltdown had Democrats paid their bills.
Hillbilly D
October 31st, 2012
8:12 pm
Few people know this guy started his career as a fiddle player. Here he is playing a fiddle tune that most every fiddle player hates.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGIteyWb8hw
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
8:13 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i__LRINO2oI
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
8:16 pm
LBB, it’s not that simple.
There likely wouldn’t have been a meltdown had bad paper mortgages not been circulated in investment portfolios through the repeal of Glass-Steagall decades before, and the increase in that bad paper due to government-mandated relaxed requirements for purchasing homes. In addition, if both Democrats AND Republicans had paid their bills, the recession likely wouldn’t have occurred. Add to that a government-created housing bubble which artificially heated up the building market, exposing smaller banks to poor lending practices, and you had a recipe for disaster waiting to happen. The fact that investment firms were encouraged through bad tax laws to misbehave didn’t help, either.
Lots of things contributed to this disaster, much of which was government caused.
@@
October 31st, 2012
8:17 pm
Kill what you eat as a political philosophy just doesn’t work.
We’re supposed to eat something while it’s still alive!!??!!
ew
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
8:17 pm
Coming on like a hurricane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kjh9lQXLWk
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
8:19 pm
Even as a New Englander I always liked Roger Miller, Hillbilly D.
But why do fiddlers hate that piece?
@@
October 31st, 2012
8:24 pm
No Angus?
Oblama
October 31st, 2012
8:26 pm
Obama is the leader of the NANNY state…. big bro gub’ment from the cradle to the grave ’cause you are to stupid and incompetent to take care of yourself.
Bruno
October 31st, 2012
8:26 pm
I Ain’t Superstitious:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYlWNb9tmtk
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
8:28 pm
Angus and Bon Scott!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_5kv8QeBBc
Hillbilly D
October 31st, 2012
8:33 pm
But why do fiddlers hate that piece?
It’s a combination of things. First, they’re asked to play it constantly; and it’s not hard to play (although people think it is) so it offers no challenge to a good player. It’s basically just running through the changes.
It’s a tribute to any of these musicians who have long careers that they play a song, virtually every night for decades and manage to either not get sick or it or hide that fact from the audience. Imagine how many times Bill Monroe played “Blue Moon of Kentucky”, or B B King has played “The Thrill Is Gone”, Cab Calloway played “Minnie the Moocher”, etc., etc. They always gave the audience the impression they were playing it for the first time. That’s a talent in itself.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
8:36 pm
I’m gonna parade around the neighborhood as the obamacreep, a freaking monster more interested in hooking women up with syphilis, gonorrhea, aids and other assorted genitalia related issues than it is about creating jobs or increasing the gross domestic product.
You get infected, I pay for it, booowahahahaha
rwcole
October 31st, 2012
8:37 pm
So just because Romney said we can’t afford disaster relief and that he would essentially outsource disaster relief to the private sector, that doesn’t mean he’ll actually do anything. He’s just running for office. Is that what you’re trying to say, Kyle?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
8:39 pm
Whoops and here’s my wife as the nasty pelosi monster, you wanna live in abject poverty, we got a program for that, boohoohoo.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 31st, 2012
8:43 pm
Except Romney never said any of those things,rwcole, but thanks for playing!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 31st, 2012
8:47 pm
Abort your syphilis infected, crack addicted baby, we care, grrrrrrrrrr, I’m the obamacreep!
obamacreep
October 31st, 2012
8:53 pm
Has your daughter reached puberty? Are you not letting her wander the neighborhood unattended on this most solemn of occasions, halloween? Are you some kind of pervert? Let her out and us dummycrats, we’ll take care of her. We got a program especially for her. Protection, rejection, molestation, infestation, abortion, prevention, all covered under our watch. Don’t be a woman hater. Git her out here and you’ll be a honored prog. Mwaauuah, boohoo.
fair and balanced
October 31st, 2012
9:16 pm
I agree with Mitt – get Bain and other private entities to run disaster relief like Halliburton did in Iraq. Let them fix the infrastructiure, hand out food and rebuild houses and get the taxpayers cough up the money plus a healthy profit. Anybody who lost their house can get a free can of food and some diapers from Mitt.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
9:23 pm
“I agree with Mitt – get Bain and other private entities to run disaster relief like Halliburton did in Iraq.”
Strange, but I never read where Mitt said anything like this, unfair and unbalanced. Can you provide a cite, please?
JDW
October 31st, 2012
10:08 pm
@Tiberius…”Your points would be better made if you refrained from terms such as “halfrican”.”
Finally, common ground!
Jiggle the Handle
October 31st, 2012
11:06 pm
Master @ 7:25 pm
“POPULIST? Have you not paid attention? A populist is one who tries to do what he thinks people want him to do or more importantly say what people want him to say. That is the OPPOSITE of what Christie usually does!”
Master, I beg to differ—take a look at Webster’s or at least Wikipedia…
Populism is generally defined as :
“as an ideology that “pits a virtuous and homogeneous people against a set of elites and dangerous ‘others’ who were together depicted as depriving (or attempting to deprive) the sovereign people of their rights, values, prosperity, identity, and voice”
Describing Christie as a populist means he would put his allegiance toward the masses and the common good over the elites and in so doing, cut across common divisions such as political parties, social class and economic station. It was grudgingly meant as a compliment and most politicians would kill to be labeled as such. Unless they are running in a Republican primary.
In the end, you and I are trying to reasonably converse in the middle of a fraternity kegger–I don’t know why I bother with these comment sections…
Goody Three Shoes
October 31st, 2012
11:10 pm
“Color me shocked”
You need new material. After 1000 times it gets a little old.
Goody Three Shoes
October 31st, 2012
11:11 pm
I report @ 8:37
That hate is who you are. Live it, breath it, admit it.
Goody Three Shoes
October 31st, 2012
11:14 pm
Where is the talk about the Romney surge that was so prevalent in the last several weeks?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
11:22 pm
Shifting to Benghazi (you know, the story where our ambassador and three other Americans were murdered this past 9/11 and nobody but Fox News and occasionally CBS bothers to report on it), Catherine Herridge reports tonight that a classified cable from the ambassador himself was sent directly to Hillary Clinton and distributed to State Dept. security and National Security contacts which detailed the deteriorating situation in Benghazi.
The ambassador specifically mentions that the consulate was incapable of withstanding an attack by local forces – those forces which included Al Qaeda and other militant or terrorist groups (up to 10 different ones). It also speculated that the Libyan forces detailed to guard the consulate had been infiltrated by these groups and were no longer considered reliable.
Is anybody going to defend this administration’s actions after this?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 31st, 2012
11:30 pm
“Where is the talk about the Romney surge that was so prevalent in the last several weeks?”
Surges come and go, Goody.
Right now the race is frozen. Latest NYT/CBS poll has Obama with slight leads in FL, OH and VA, HOWEVER, they oversampled Democrats by more than the 2008 turnout differentials in each state which in reality shows a likely Romney lead in all of them. In OH, 185k less Democrats have early voted / absentee voted than in 2008 at this same time, while 75k more Republicans have done so. Since Obama only won OH by 265k votes in 2008, this put them in a virtual dead heat. With many more Republicans going to the polls traditionally on Election day than Democrats, this could be a huge win for Romney.
All this is to say that objectively, the dynamics of this last week still slightly favor Romney in many states, and OH is still in play but not as dire as Democrats would like you to believe it is for Romney.
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
11:42 pm
Mitt gets credit for calling off his campaign rally in Ohio out of respect for those affected by the hurricane. Instead of having a campaign ralley in Ohio, he had a campaign rally in Ohio (you’d understand this type of double speak if you spoke Romnish). He even bought some canned goods to send to “he guesses” New Jersey. .
Randy Ayn
October 31st, 2012
11:48 pm
Good call, fair and balanced. Haliburton can help rebuild NY and NJ. You don’t want to touch the plumbing in the bathrooms, however, as we were losing soldiers to electrocution in the showers left and right. But, hey, shareholders got a nice return on their investment in getting Bush elected.
Goody Three Shoes
October 31st, 2012
11:58 pm
Tiberius
You make it sound good for Romney, however I do not want you to be surprised.
He is not going to win. It isn’t in the cards for him.
Goody Three Shoes
November 1st, 2012
12:02 am
Tiberius
Not an Obama fan, however somethings are what they are.
Randy Ayn
November 1st, 2012
12:03 am
Tib – here’s a youtube clip of Romney clearly saying that we need to send FEMA back to the states and look into having it privatized. Rather than just say things you haven’t researched or shoot off questions for other people to look things up for you, why don’t you try studying up on the issues and then come back and post. If you read enough, you may even change sides. The internet can be your friend,.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTSHxR_4rc8
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
12:13 am
“You make it sound good for Romney, however I do not want you to be surprised. ”
Goody, I won’t be surprised either way. I have consistently predicted this race as being a less than 20 Electoral Vote margin from day one. However, the polls are being manipulated by organizations to show something that isn’t really happening. Don’t know why; I’ll leave that speculation to the conspiracy theorists.
Goody Three Shoes
November 1st, 2012
12:16 am
Manipulated to imply that Romney has a chance, yes.
Sad we have the two we have to chose from.
Thanks for the exchange. Have a great night.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
12:17 am
“here’s a youtube clip of Romney clearly saying that we need to send FEMA back to the states and look into having it privatized.”
And yet strangely, Romney never mentions FEMA at all in that clip, Randy.
Go figure.
When you speak about a $1.6 trillion deficit, you’re speaking in generalities, not specifics.
Another epic fail on your part, son.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
12:28 am
“Manipulated to imply that Romney has a chance, yes.”
Sorry, but not so, Goody.
If you build in a 6 point Democrat advantage in a given state into your poll, when the Democrat advantage in 2008 was only 2 points (when everybody was so hyped on Obama), you’re skewing the poll towards a narrative that is patently false.
Goody Three Shoes
November 1st, 2012
12:33 am
Tiberius
You make a great case, however I am seeing through the spin of both campaigns. Something stinks for sure.
It is all a charade. Obama is going to win. I am not impressed with him nor Romney, but something is fishy as you indicated. I just see the slight of hand coming from a different direction.
Either way; have to run.
Thanks again
Hurricane Sandy prompts two dramatically divergent sights how society should … – Atlanta Journal Metabolic rate (blog) | occupyfeeds
November 1st, 2012
12:59 am
[...] Source [...]
Attack Dog
November 1st, 2012
5:29 am
1. Romney bet Rick Perry $10,000 about Obamacare, but only puts up $5,000 in a fake Sandy Relief Drive. 2. American Crossroads GPS is sinking $17 million in meaningless attack ads in Blue states, while the Eastern Seaboard is at the crossroads from destruction. 3. Scary words, “I’m from Bain Capital, and I’m here to help.”
Jack
November 1st, 2012
5:52 am
There are hundreds, maybe thousands of those empty Katrina trailers that could be moved to NJ & NY. Taxpayers from all over helped pay for them. Taller sea walls will have to be built which will be paid for by taxpayers from all over. Anytime you live by an ocean or large body of water, there’s a danger of flooding and there’s flood insurance available.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
7:09 am
Goody Three Shoes: Sad we have the two we have to chose from.
——————-
Ah, the old “lesser of two evils” ruse.
Would your ideal candidate raise taxes or lower them? Raise spending or lower it? Increase government involvement in health care decisions, or reduce it? Reform entitlements, or status quo? Increase government control of private enterprise, or reduce it?
Don’t just whine about your choices, tell everyone what you’re looking for.
Me, I’m fine with the American in the race. Mere citizenship doesn’t qualify one to hold the office.
Vote American.
Master (de)Bater
November 1st, 2012
7:14 am
Jiggle @ 11:06 pm
“Describing Christie as a populist means he would put his allegiance toward the masses and the common good over the elites and in so doing, cut across common divisions such as political parties, social class and economic station. It was grudgingly meant as a compliment and most politicians would kill to be labeled as such. Unless they are running in a Republican primary.”
You’re right. I took the populist thing too far, but if Christie can be a populist depends on your definition of “elite.” If it means “the rich,” then I don’t believe it, because Christie doesn’t equate rich people and elite. OTOH, if “elite” is defined as a small group of people who wield power and control how other people live, then we can agree on him being “populist.” Most people don’t use the definition right and I just assumed that you were not using it literally. I’m sorry for making that assumption. My fault, and you were right to call me on it.
“In the end, you and I are trying to reasonably converse in the middle of a fraternity kegger–I don’t know why I bother with these comment sections…”
Ah. You already know what to do with the other stuff…you just pull that handle all the way and…FLUSH!
Quite honestly, even though I haven’t seen many of your posts, I’m impressed with your ability to reason among the fracas. Most libs on these forums don’t do that well. Look forward to some intelligent discussion with you in the future.
fair and balanced
November 1st, 2012
7:49 am
Governor Christie must have gotten his back up about Romney suggesting that a free can of food and and some free diapers along with private contractors will solve all the problems instead of FEMA coordination of federal and state agencies and federal disastermoney. Same as lyin Ryan asking for stimulus funds for some green pork in his district or voting for unfunded Medicare drugs.At least Christie got his priorities straight and knew who was buttering his bread. Maybe the cons in Congress will be forced to follow his example after Tuesday instead of worshiping Grover and Rush.
rwcole
November 1st, 2012
8:12 am
I wonder if Kyle and the rest of the cons are tired of telling us what Romney meant to say instead of that thing he did say. I wonder when any of the rest of them will start to wonder why they have to keep reinterpreting what their candidate says. It really is Bizarro world because I actually respect Chris Christie today and now I’m wondering how long it will be before Kyle and his friends at Fox throw their hero, Christie under a bus.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
8:24 am
Before you two get any farther down the road on this one, who do you think Chris Christie is STILL going to vote for for President?
He ain’t pulling the level for Obama.
His state needs help, and he’s not stupid enough to bite the hand that feeds him. Nothing more, nothing less.
carlosgvv
November 1st, 2012
8:33 am
Barry – 7:09 “I’m fine with the American in the race”
This post shows just how large a streak of the common runs in you.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
8:34 am
He ain’t pulling the level for Obama.
Think about it. Christie wants to be Prez in 2016 so OF COURSE he is going to vote for Obama.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
8:36 am
I guess Romney doesn’t listen when the Red Cross tells people to NOT send food items. That causes transportation and storage problems. They DO want people to send cash so they can put it to use immediately where it is needed.
Idiot
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
8:36 am
Barry needs to make a DR appointment to get his anti-depressants ASAP.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
8:40 am
Uh, Finn?
That food won’t go to waste.
There’s still a lot of people who voted for Obama that need assistance these days.
DawgDad
November 1st, 2012
9:08 am
The irony is the leftist nut-cases trash-talk capitalism and promote all this “togetherness” nonsense in the face of disaster while they and their leaders are screaming for help from the government. Who do they think the government represents and where the government money comes from? The people, and from our capitalist system. When the leftists start solving problems with their own money I might start to listen to them. Since that by definition will never happen . . .
These people legitimately need help and the American people and our government will respond, despite all their trash talk and ingratitude.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
9:16 am
This post shows just how large a streak of the common runs in you.
———-
Most libs, like the one above, consider a love of country as “common”.
DawgDad
November 1st, 2012
9:20 am
“This post shows just how large a streak of the common runs in you.”
Were you addressing that to me? If so, I confess I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.
md
November 1st, 2012
9:37 am
“I wonder if Kyle and the rest of the cons are tired of telling us what Romney meant to say instead of that thing he did say.”
I’ve never had a problem understanding what he meant…..maybe it’s because I read the entire quote vs just the talking point put out by the left…………try it, it may help, but I’m not going to hold my breath.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
9:39 am
No, DawgDad, I was quoting carlosgvv…
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
9:40 am
Me, I’m fine with the American in the race. Mere citizenship doesn’t qualify one to hold the office.
Vote American.
Substitute “White” for American and you’ll get the real picture.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
9:41 am
I’ve never had a problem understanding what he meant…
Neither have I. Thats the problem.
“I am learning to say y’all and I like grits, and… strange things are happening to me.”
- Mitt Romney
carlosgvv
November 1st, 2012
9:44 am
Barry – 9:16
Most Americans, liberal and conservative, do love their country. In that sense, they are common. Unlike you, however, most also consider Obama to be an American. Since you think he’s not, please furnish us the irrefutable proof of such.
md
November 1st, 2012
9:53 am
“I am learning to say y’all and I like grits, and… strange things are happening to me.”
And??
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
9:54 am
Morning, y’all. I got started this morning right with a biscuit and some cheesy grits.
_ Mitt Romney
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
9:55 am
And???
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
9:55 am
“I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that’s the America millions of Americans believe in. That’s the America I love.”
- Mitt Romney
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
9:57 am
“I’m an unofficial southerner.”
- Mitt Romney
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
9:57 am
I don’t see anyone rushing to the defense of this administration following the reporting of that classified cable from Ambassador Stevens regarding Benghazi to the State Dept. 3 weeks before he was murdered.
Georgia
November 1st, 2012
9:58 am
GOP definition: “Communism is anything that benefits the guy at the other end of the handshake that secures a “deal”.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:00 am
A serious thought would get lost in Cheesy’s poor excuse for a brain.
Georgia
November 1st, 2012
10:02 am
Insurance contracts have fine print that indemnifies any payments to homeowners. They also have fine print which guarantees all payments to shareholders. buy. Buy. BUY!!!!!!!!
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
10:02 am
92 killed at American embassies under Reagan.
33 killed at American embassies under Bush.
4 killed at American embassies under Obama.
President Obama was right. He has the BEST record of defending our embassies.
Never seen anybody dispute those numbers either.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:05 am
“92 killed at American embassies under Reagan.
33 killed at American embassies under Bush.
4 killed at American embassies under Obama.”
And only one of them has had the evidence suppressed and/or covered up, Cheesy.
Can you name which one of the three?
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
10:08 am
Think about it. Almost 100 people killed at embassies during Reagan’s watch.
What the he77 was he doing? Was he asleep?
Unbelievable incompetence.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:11 am
Deflection, Cheesy.
Reagan isn’t on the ballot and didn’t cover up what his administration knew in advance.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
10:11 am
And only one of them has had the evidence suppressed and/or covered up, Cheesy.
Can you name which one of the three?
Yes Ronald Reagan.
Iran Contra.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
10:15 am
“As president, I will create 12 million new jobs.” — Mitt Romney, during the second presidential debate
“Government does not create jobs. Government does not create jobs.” — Mitt Romney, 45 minutes later.
Georgia
November 1st, 2012
10:15 am
The homeowner insurance and health insurance companies have merged. Now the entire Eastern Seaboard has a pre-existing condition: it’s at or below sea level. Payment denied.
Kudos to Romney for acting quickly when he learned that Insurance Industry shareholders needed finger sandwiches, water and coffee for their emergency meeting today at noon. Even though it’s his job to perpetuate injustice in underwriting, he did move awfully quick. Said one shareholder, “Romney called me and said if I needed anything, like a gluten free hors d’oeuvres or those delightfully light croissants, that he’d send a helicopter if he had to.”
md
November 1st, 2012
10:15 am
“President Obama was right. He has the BEST record of defending our embassies.”
And he did it from Vegas……..good job Barry……….(sarc)
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
10:16 am
“92 killed at American embassies under Reagan.
33 killed at American embassies under Bush.
4 killed at American embassies under Obama.”
And only one of them has had the evidence suppressed and/or covered up, “
Only one of the above statements is a lie. Can you name which one?
md
November 1st, 2012
10:17 am
“Government does not create jobs. Government does not create jobs.” — Mitt Romney, 45 minutes later.
Most of us know that means Obama’s gov’t, as it has no clue that the private sector is the money maker…..Romney doesn’t have that problem………
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:18 am
More deflection, Cheesy (or and outright lie).
Reagan had Iran-Contra, but it had nothing to do with the deaths of American diplomats.
You’d know that if you knew, well – anything.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:22 am
Prove the lie, MarkV.
Fox News uncovers a classified cable sent 3 weeks earlier by the very ambassador killed, citing security issues at Benghazi due to – wait for it – 10 different terrorist groups in that area. He SPECIFICALLY states that the Benghazi compound cannot be secured from an attack by any of these groups. The cable was sent DIRECTLY to Hillary Clinton and distributed to National Security and State Dept security contacts.
This is a coverup of epic proportions, except in the fantasy world of Obama supporters who will do anything to defend this administration’s incompetence at every turn.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
10:23 am
You can’t deny Romney’s expertise in cleaning up after a disaster. He has reminded us that he was once involved in cleaning up a school football field.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
10:26 am
“Government does not create jobs. Government does not create jobs.” — Mitt Romney, 45 minutes later.
Most of us know that means Obama’s gov’t, …”
Speak for yourself, md.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
10:28 am
“Fox News uncovers a classified cable sent 3 weeks earlier by the very ambassador killed, citing security issues at Benghazi due to – wait for it – 10 different terrorist groups in that area. He SPECIFICALLY states that the Benghazi compound cannot be secured from an attack by any of these groups. The cable was sent DIRECTLY to Hillary Clinton and distributed to National Security and State Dept security contacts.
This is a coverup of epic proportions,…”
Only in the minds of insane.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:29 am
Even I knew md wasn’t speaking for you, MarkV.
He couldn’t lower his intelligence that far down.
md
November 1st, 2012
10:35 am
““RSO (Regional Security Officer) expressed concerns with the ability to defend Post in the event of a coordinated attack due to limited manpower, security measures, weapons capabilities, host nation support, and the overall size of the compound,” the cable said.”
Make of it what one will, but if true, this BS about a movie and protestors should be an insult to ALL of us……..even those with a blind allegiance to this admin……..
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:38 am
And all of a sudden, when pressed to prove the lie, MarkV goes silent.
All too typical of his kind.
We know them as – cowards.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
10:38 am
Tiberius @10:29 am
“Even I knew md wasn’t speaking for you, MarkV.
He couldn’t lower his intelligence that far down.”
How typical for Tiberius, when he, as usual, has nothing intelligent to write.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
10:41 am
Unlike you, however, most also consider Obama to be an American. Since you think he’s not, please furnish us the irrefutable proof of such.
———-
You understand the difference between mere citizenship and being an American, right?
Obozo: citizen.
President Romney: American.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
10:46 am
Americans believe in free market capitalism, equal opportunity, personal responsibility, strong families, and working for a living.
Obviously, Obozo is no American.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
10:46 am
Tiberius @ 10:38 am
“And all of a sudden, when pressed to prove the lie, MarkV goes silent. All too typical of his kind. We know them as – cowards.”
Again, very typical for Tiberius, and his lack of intelligence. I called the statement “And only one of them has had the evidence suppressed and/or covered up, “ Tiberius’ reference to Obama, a lie. Tiberius, thinking he was so clever, asked to “Prove the lie, MarkV.” (@10:22). Therefore, he was asking to prove a negative. Stupid, of course.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
10:48 am
Iran Contra.
Oh, snap!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
10:50 am
free market capitalism
what utter BS. Show me some “free market” capitalism.
Americans love them some regulated capitalism with tax breaks, government subsidies and government protections (copyright, etc, etc, etc)
“free market” LOL
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
10:51 am
Where is this “cover up” of which you speak? I haven’t seen a cover up.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:53 am
Nice try at wordsmithing again, MarkV (your usual modus operandi when caught), but it is lost on the intelligent.
You claimed the statement I wrote saying this administration is covering up and/or suppressing information on Benghanzi was a lie.
Prove it.
Coward.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
10:55 am
Free market capitalism is the ideal. The further we’ve straye from it, the weaker our economy has become, and the more frequent and more severe are the shocks to it (recessions, depressions, financial collapses)
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
10:57 am
Liberal fascists love them some regulated capitalism with tax breaks, government subsidies and government protections
———-
Fixed.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:58 am
Finn, you have to watch a real news network every now and again. One with reporters who continue to find out more and more information about this administration’s incompetence and callous disregard for the safety of their ambassador to Libya.
Google Fox News, Jennifer Griffin and Catherine Herridge to find out what this administration won’t tell you.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
11:02 am
Tiberius @10:53 am
Proving that a statement that the administration was covering up and/or suppressing information on Benghazi was a lie would mean proving that there was no cover up or suppression – proving a negative.
As usual, when Tiberius is in a corner, he complains about “wordsmithing,” it is, “skillful writing.” Your problem, Tiberius. It can be lost on you, but not on intelligent.
JamVet
November 1st, 2012
11:05 am
No worries!
One of the great humanitarians of our era, Donnie Birther, is going to give millions – with no strings attached – to help his fellow NYC neighbors recover!
Because he is that kind of guy!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
11:06 am
I think those who are claiming the cover up need to prove it; not the people who aren’t claiming it need to disprove it.
You folks are trying to prove it but most Americans aren’t buying it.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
11:12 am
“You folks are trying to prove it but most Americans aren’t even seeing any reporting of it.”
Fixed your typo, Finn.
md
November 1st, 2012
11:13 am
“You folks are trying to prove it but most Americans aren’t buying it.”
Best I can tell, the ones that aren’t buying it are highly partisan and don’t want to ask the questions that might get an answer they don’t want to hear……………it’s much easier to not ask the questions, it allows one to remain partisan without the internal conflict.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
11:20 am
“Proving that a statement that the administration was covering up and/or suppressing information on Benghazi was a lie would mean proving that there was no cover up or suppression”
So when the administration won’t comment on PUBLISHED memos (we’ll leave this new classified cable to the side for a moment) when asked about the inconsistencies in their “stories”, and then insisting on waiting for an “investigation” to be completed, in MarkV’s eyes that isn’t a coverup.
When the Secretary of State has a cable sent directly to her outlining the security concerns of her own ambassador three weeks before he is killed in the very compound he was worried about, and insists she doesn’t have all the information when asked, in MarkV’s eyes that’s not a coverup.
MarkV would have been great in the role of St. Schultz in ‘Hogan’s Heroes’; “I know NOTHING!”
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
11:21 am
Fox News uncovers a classified cable sent 3 weeks earlier by the very ambassador killed, citing security issues at Benghazi due to – wait for it – 10 different terrorist groups in that area. He SPECIFICALLY states that the Benghazi compound cannot be secured from an attack by any of these groups.
And so the guy decides it is a place he needs to visit. Why not stay in Tripoli where all the work was?
“This place can’t be secured, very dangerous, so I think I’ll go and visit it.”
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
11:23 am
Here’s the thing, md.
They’d have to actually watch a real news organization to know anything about this, because the rest of them (except for a couple of reports on CBS) are deliberately not reporting ANYTHING on this.
Can you imagine if this were the Bush administration and this had happened?
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
11:23 am
People, who have any brainpower, should carefully think of the following (one more time) argument made by Tiberius @ 10:22
“Fox News uncovers a classified cable sent 3 weeks earlier by the very ambassador killed, citing security issues at Benghazi due to – wait for it – 10 different terrorist groups in that area. He SPECIFICALLY states that the Benghazi compound cannot be secured from an attack by any of these groups. The cable was sent DIRECTLY to Hillary Clinton and distributed to National Security and State Dept security contacts.’
And Tiberius has called it:
“This is a coverup of epic proportions,…”
The above simply shows (if it is true, and I have no evidence that it is not), that the Secretary of State, National Security and State Dept. security contacts received a classified cable about security problems.
Where is a coverup in the above.? Not to mention one “of epic proportions?” Can a person making such an accusation be both sane and intelligent?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
11:27 am
Can a person making such an accusation be both sane and intelligent?
Umm, neither?
md
November 1st, 2012
11:29 am
Tib,
And the media that is not reporting it are taking a calculated gamble……if it all goes sideways and they were on the sidelines on purpose, the masses will figure it out eventually and these non-media outlets will be exposed for what they are………and they will have killed any credibility they thought they had left……..
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
11:29 am
“And so the guy decides it is a place he needs to visit. Why not stay in Tripoli where all the work was?”
Thanks for bringing up another question, Finn.
Was he ordered by State to travel to Behghazi for some reason? Oh, that’s right – we can’t get any of that information from this administration.
We know e-mails were sent to the WH Situation room during the attack describing what was happening. Was the President in the Situation Room during that time? Oh, that’s right – we can’t get that information from this administration. But we can get pictures of him in the Situation Room during Hurricane Sandy (when he couldn’t do a damned thing).
md
November 1st, 2012
11:31 am
“The above simply shows (if it is true, and I have no evidence that it is not), that the Secretary of State, National Security and State Dept. security contacts received a classified cable about security problems. ”
Yet they put out this story about non-existent protesters and a movie knowing full well the security is unstable due to terrorist elements………and that makes sense to some of you?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
11:37 am
Yeah, md, let’s not forget that the CIA’s Chief of Station told National Security that it was a coordinated attack 24 hours following the death of the ambassador.
Yet 5 days later Susan Rice goes on all the Sunday shows with her phony talking points about a “spontaneous demonstration” due to some obscure internet video.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
11:38 am
if it all goes sideways and they were on the sidelines on purpose,
I like their odds.
md
November 1st, 2012
11:42 am
“I like their odds.”
I don’t……I wouldn’t want to be on the side against the spook community and I’m guessing they don’t like the idea of having their own killed and the truth not being told…….it will come out at some point, just like in the past. Do you think Reagan wanted Iran Contra to be exposed??
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
11:46 am
But it’s not a coverup or suppression of information, is it?
No, it just can’t be with this most transparent administration in the history of this nation! (sarcasm)
BenDaho
November 1st, 2012
11:53 am
Party sympathizers probably didn’t question what Hitler and Joseph Goebbels were up to either…
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
11:55 am
The after-the-fact analysis of Benghazi is important and interesting.
But the real outrage is that the Obozo administration failed to properly protect our consulate in the first place.
Obozo: Incompetent
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
12:10 pm
I see that MarkV and Finn have done what they usually do in the face of superior arguments – retreat.
My hope is that they are merely doing the research they so seriously neglected on this, but knowing their penchant for mindless opinion sites instead of factual news organizations, I don’t have much hope.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
1:08 pm
md @11:31 am
MarkV: “The above simply shows (if it is true, and I have no evidence that it is not), that the Secretary of State, National Security and State Dept. security contacts received a classified cable about security problems. ”
md: “Yet they put out this story about non-existent protesters and a movie knowing full well the security is unstable due to terrorist elements………and that makes sense to some of you?”
md,
Can’t you at least try to keep track of what the argument is about? Tiberius called the report that the Secretary of State, National Security and State Dept. security contacts received a classified cable about security problems “ a coverup of epic proportions,” and my post, which you have responded to, was a reply to that.
You could have joined in the lunacy of Tiberius’ accusation, or reject it, or do nothing. Instead, you responded with a deflection. What has the report of security problems before the attack to do with how the Administration reported the attack? There was no direct relationship. Even with security concerns before, the attack could have been related to the protests, or not related.
As for the “evidence” regurgitated all the time, i.e., the statements of UN Representative Susan Rice, nobody has been able to point out any part of her statements that was not true. The main point of what she stated was that the investigation was in progress, which was the responsible thing to do. As a matter of fact, as far as we, the public, can tell, to this day there is no clear knowledge of the details of the attack, including the motivation.
Lakeisha Jackson
November 2nd, 2012
11:10 pm
Am I the only one who finds it rather comical that the very first thing President Obama and Governor Christie had to do was to remove government restrictions in order to get something done?