Hurricane Sandy prompts two sharply divergent views on how society should respond
It’s been a while since we’ve heard from Occupy Wall Street, the group alleged to be the left’s answer to the tea party. But you might hear more about these messages yesterday from the group expressing apparent approval of the wrecked state of New York City post-Hurricane Sandy:
No subways. No electricity. No chains. #capitalism #sandy #nyc
I don’t think the person tweeting from the OWS account really believes things would be better in a world with so much physical destruction (although, in light of the way OWS treated the Manhattan park where it held its famous rallies last year, I may be giving him/her too much credit). I do, however, think these messages betray an astounding lack of recognition that free-market capitalism is the most accurate system mankind has yet devised to represent how members of a community want to interact with one another.
So, when OWS tweets,”Insurance is the capitalist answer to what should be an effort of mutual aid from the community. #sandy,” while philosophizing, “That community you’re experiencing, in the face of crisis? It’s always there. Think about what it is that usually obscures it. #sandy,” it’s missing the point that people usually don’t “experience” “community” in this way because they’d prefer to make other arrangements and not live like the world is collapsing around them. Arrangements such as insurance.
But whither government? After all, liberals like to say government is “simply the name we give to the things we choose to do together.” That sentiment, however, suggests everyone is always on board with what government takes from them and does on their behalf. The more government does, the less that’s true.
Back to the topic at hand: That doesn’t mean conservatives think government should be out of the disaster-relief business altogether — even if some of us think government should refrain from some other spending and set that money aside to make sure we don’t have to borrow money to cover these expenses, while others believe the more local and state governments can handle emergency management, the better it will be done. (Not to mention that the private sector is often quicker and more efficient in delivering aid than government agencies, as Wal-Mart famously demonstrated in post-Katrina New Orleans.)
This topic tends not to get the thoughtful treatment it deserves in the midst of a crisis, and then it’s usually forgotten once the crisis leaves the headlines. So, we get broad claims about Mitt Romney’s alleged heartlessness based on one brief segment of one interview in which he promoted a federalist approach to disaster relief. Which is about as fair as it would be for me now to point out that President Obama has said nice things in the past about OWS and argue he must necessarily subscribe to its anti-capitalist view of how the world works.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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331 comments Add your comment
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
10:46 am
Americans believe in free market capitalism, equal opportunity, personal responsibility, strong families, and working for a living.
Obviously, Obozo is no American.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
10:46 am
Tiberius @ 10:38 am
“And all of a sudden, when pressed to prove the lie, MarkV goes silent. All too typical of his kind. We know them as – cowards.”
Again, very typical for Tiberius, and his lack of intelligence. I called the statement “And only one of them has had the evidence suppressed and/or covered up, “ Tiberius’ reference to Obama, a lie. Tiberius, thinking he was so clever, asked to “Prove the lie, MarkV.” (@10:22). Therefore, he was asking to prove a negative. Stupid, of course.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
10:48 am
Iran Contra.
Oh, snap!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
10:50 am
free market capitalism
what utter BS. Show me some “free market” capitalism.
Americans love them some regulated capitalism with tax breaks, government subsidies and government protections (copyright, etc, etc, etc)
“free market” LOL
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
10:51 am
Where is this “cover up” of which you speak? I haven’t seen a cover up.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:53 am
Nice try at wordsmithing again, MarkV (your usual modus operandi when caught), but it is lost on the intelligent.
You claimed the statement I wrote saying this administration is covering up and/or suppressing information on Benghanzi was a lie.
Prove it.
Coward.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
10:55 am
Free market capitalism is the ideal. The further we’ve straye from it, the weaker our economy has become, and the more frequent and more severe are the shocks to it (recessions, depressions, financial collapses)
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
10:57 am
Liberal fascists love them some regulated capitalism with tax breaks, government subsidies and government protections
———-
Fixed.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:58 am
Finn, you have to watch a real news network every now and again. One with reporters who continue to find out more and more information about this administration’s incompetence and callous disregard for the safety of their ambassador to Libya.
Google Fox News, Jennifer Griffin and Catherine Herridge to find out what this administration won’t tell you.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
11:02 am
Tiberius @10:53 am
Proving that a statement that the administration was covering up and/or suppressing information on Benghazi was a lie would mean proving that there was no cover up or suppression – proving a negative.
As usual, when Tiberius is in a corner, he complains about “wordsmithing,” it is, “skillful writing.” Your problem, Tiberius. It can be lost on you, but not on intelligent.
JamVet
November 1st, 2012
11:05 am
No worries!
One of the great humanitarians of our era, Donnie Birther, is going to give millions – with no strings attached – to help his fellow NYC neighbors recover!
Because he is that kind of guy!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
11:06 am
I think those who are claiming the cover up need to prove it; not the people who aren’t claiming it need to disprove it.
You folks are trying to prove it but most Americans aren’t buying it.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
11:12 am
“You folks are trying to prove it but most Americans aren’t even seeing any reporting of it.”
Fixed your typo, Finn.
md
November 1st, 2012
11:13 am
“You folks are trying to prove it but most Americans aren’t buying it.”
Best I can tell, the ones that aren’t buying it are highly partisan and don’t want to ask the questions that might get an answer they don’t want to hear……………it’s much easier to not ask the questions, it allows one to remain partisan without the internal conflict.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
11:20 am
“Proving that a statement that the administration was covering up and/or suppressing information on Benghazi was a lie would mean proving that there was no cover up or suppression”
So when the administration won’t comment on PUBLISHED memos (we’ll leave this new classified cable to the side for a moment) when asked about the inconsistencies in their “stories”, and then insisting on waiting for an “investigation” to be completed, in MarkV’s eyes that isn’t a coverup.
When the Secretary of State has a cable sent directly to her outlining the security concerns of her own ambassador three weeks before he is killed in the very compound he was worried about, and insists she doesn’t have all the information when asked, in MarkV’s eyes that’s not a coverup.
MarkV would have been great in the role of St. Schultz in ‘Hogan’s Heroes’; “I know NOTHING!”
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
11:21 am
Fox News uncovers a classified cable sent 3 weeks earlier by the very ambassador killed, citing security issues at Benghazi due to – wait for it – 10 different terrorist groups in that area. He SPECIFICALLY states that the Benghazi compound cannot be secured from an attack by any of these groups.
And so the guy decides it is a place he needs to visit. Why not stay in Tripoli where all the work was?
“This place can’t be secured, very dangerous, so I think I’ll go and visit it.”
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
11:23 am
Here’s the thing, md.
They’d have to actually watch a real news organization to know anything about this, because the rest of them (except for a couple of reports on CBS) are deliberately not reporting ANYTHING on this.
Can you imagine if this were the Bush administration and this had happened?
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
11:23 am
People, who have any brainpower, should carefully think of the following (one more time) argument made by Tiberius @ 10:22
“Fox News uncovers a classified cable sent 3 weeks earlier by the very ambassador killed, citing security issues at Benghazi due to – wait for it – 10 different terrorist groups in that area. He SPECIFICALLY states that the Benghazi compound cannot be secured from an attack by any of these groups. The cable was sent DIRECTLY to Hillary Clinton and distributed to National Security and State Dept security contacts.’
And Tiberius has called it:
“This is a coverup of epic proportions,…”
The above simply shows (if it is true, and I have no evidence that it is not), that the Secretary of State, National Security and State Dept. security contacts received a classified cable about security problems.
Where is a coverup in the above.? Not to mention one “of epic proportions?” Can a person making such an accusation be both sane and intelligent?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
11:27 am
Can a person making such an accusation be both sane and intelligent?
Umm, neither?
md
November 1st, 2012
11:29 am
Tib,
And the media that is not reporting it are taking a calculated gamble……if it all goes sideways and they were on the sidelines on purpose, the masses will figure it out eventually and these non-media outlets will be exposed for what they are………and they will have killed any credibility they thought they had left……..
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
11:29 am
“And so the guy decides it is a place he needs to visit. Why not stay in Tripoli where all the work was?”
Thanks for bringing up another question, Finn.
Was he ordered by State to travel to Behghazi for some reason? Oh, that’s right – we can’t get any of that information from this administration.
We know e-mails were sent to the WH Situation room during the attack describing what was happening. Was the President in the Situation Room during that time? Oh, that’s right – we can’t get that information from this administration. But we can get pictures of him in the Situation Room during Hurricane Sandy (when he couldn’t do a damned thing).
md
November 1st, 2012
11:31 am
“The above simply shows (if it is true, and I have no evidence that it is not), that the Secretary of State, National Security and State Dept. security contacts received a classified cable about security problems. ”
Yet they put out this story about non-existent protesters and a movie knowing full well the security is unstable due to terrorist elements………and that makes sense to some of you?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
11:37 am
Yeah, md, let’s not forget that the CIA’s Chief of Station told National Security that it was a coordinated attack 24 hours following the death of the ambassador.
Yet 5 days later Susan Rice goes on all the Sunday shows with her phony talking points about a “spontaneous demonstration” due to some obscure internet video.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
11:38 am
if it all goes sideways and they were on the sidelines on purpose,
I like their odds.
md
November 1st, 2012
11:42 am
“I like their odds.”
I don’t……I wouldn’t want to be on the side against the spook community and I’m guessing they don’t like the idea of having their own killed and the truth not being told…….it will come out at some point, just like in the past. Do you think Reagan wanted Iran Contra to be exposed??
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
11:46 am
But it’s not a coverup or suppression of information, is it?
No, it just can’t be with this most transparent administration in the history of this nation! (sarcasm)
BenDaho
November 1st, 2012
11:53 am
Party sympathizers probably didn’t question what Hitler and Joseph Goebbels were up to either…
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
11:55 am
The after-the-fact analysis of Benghazi is important and interesting.
But the real outrage is that the Obozo administration failed to properly protect our consulate in the first place.
Obozo: Incompetent
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
12:10 pm
I see that MarkV and Finn have done what they usually do in the face of superior arguments – retreat.
My hope is that they are merely doing the research they so seriously neglected on this, but knowing their penchant for mindless opinion sites instead of factual news organizations, I don’t have much hope.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
1:08 pm
md @11:31 am
MarkV: “The above simply shows (if it is true, and I have no evidence that it is not), that the Secretary of State, National Security and State Dept. security contacts received a classified cable about security problems. ”
md: “Yet they put out this story about non-existent protesters and a movie knowing full well the security is unstable due to terrorist elements………and that makes sense to some of you?”
md,
Can’t you at least try to keep track of what the argument is about? Tiberius called the report that the Secretary of State, National Security and State Dept. security contacts received a classified cable about security problems “ a coverup of epic proportions,” and my post, which you have responded to, was a reply to that.
You could have joined in the lunacy of Tiberius’ accusation, or reject it, or do nothing. Instead, you responded with a deflection. What has the report of security problems before the attack to do with how the Administration reported the attack? There was no direct relationship. Even with security concerns before, the attack could have been related to the protests, or not related.
As for the “evidence” regurgitated all the time, i.e., the statements of UN Representative Susan Rice, nobody has been able to point out any part of her statements that was not true. The main point of what she stated was that the investigation was in progress, which was the responsible thing to do. As a matter of fact, as far as we, the public, can tell, to this day there is no clear knowledge of the details of the attack, including the motivation.
Lakeisha Jackson
November 2nd, 2012
11:10 pm
Am I the only one who finds it rather comical that the very first thing President Obama and Governor Christie had to do was to remove government restrictions in order to get something done?