Hurricane Sandy prompts two sharply divergent views on how society should respond
It’s been a while since we’ve heard from Occupy Wall Street, the group alleged to be the left’s answer to the tea party. But you might hear more about these messages yesterday from the group expressing apparent approval of the wrecked state of New York City post-Hurricane Sandy:
No subways. No electricity. No chains. #capitalism #sandy #nyc
I don’t think the person tweeting from the OWS account really believes things would be better in a world with so much physical destruction (although, in light of the way OWS treated the Manhattan park where it held its famous rallies last year, I may be giving him/her too much credit). I do, however, think these messages betray an astounding lack of recognition that free-market capitalism is the most accurate system mankind has yet devised to represent how members of a community want to interact with one another.
So, when OWS tweets,”Insurance is the capitalist answer to what should be an effort of mutual aid from the community. #sandy,” while philosophizing, “That community you’re experiencing, in the face of crisis? It’s always there. Think about what it is that usually obscures it. #sandy,” it’s missing the point that people usually don’t “experience” “community” in this way because they’d prefer to make other arrangements and not live like the world is collapsing around them. Arrangements such as insurance.
But whither government? After all, liberals like to say government is “simply the name we give to the things we choose to do together.” That sentiment, however, suggests everyone is always on board with what government takes from them and does on their behalf. The more government does, the less that’s true.
Back to the topic at hand: That doesn’t mean conservatives think government should be out of the disaster-relief business altogether — even if some of us think government should refrain from some other spending and set that money aside to make sure we don’t have to borrow money to cover these expenses, while others believe the more local and state governments can handle emergency management, the better it will be done. (Not to mention that the private sector is often quicker and more efficient in delivering aid than government agencies, as Wal-Mart famously demonstrated in post-Katrina New Orleans.)
This topic tends not to get the thoughtful treatment it deserves in the midst of a crisis, and then it’s usually forgotten once the crisis leaves the headlines. So, we get broad claims about Mitt Romney’s alleged heartlessness based on one brief segment of one interview in which he promoted a federalist approach to disaster relief. Which is about as fair as it would be for me now to point out that President Obama has said nice things in the past about OWS and argue he must necessarily subscribe to its anti-capitalist view of how the world works.
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
331 comments Add your comment
Hurricane Sandy prompts two dramatically divergent sights how society should … – Atlanta Journal Metabolic rate (blog) | occupyfeeds
November 1st, 2012
12:59 am
[...] Source [...]
Attack Dog
November 1st, 2012
5:29 am
1. Romney bet Rick Perry $10,000 about Obamacare, but only puts up $5,000 in a fake Sandy Relief Drive. 2. American Crossroads GPS is sinking $17 million in meaningless attack ads in Blue states, while the Eastern Seaboard is at the crossroads from destruction. 3. Scary words, “I’m from Bain Capital, and I’m here to help.”
Jack
November 1st, 2012
5:52 am
There are hundreds, maybe thousands of those empty Katrina trailers that could be moved to NJ & NY. Taxpayers from all over helped pay for them. Taller sea walls will have to be built which will be paid for by taxpayers from all over. Anytime you live by an ocean or large body of water, there’s a danger of flooding and there’s flood insurance available.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
7:09 am
Goody Three Shoes: Sad we have the two we have to chose from.
——————-
Ah, the old “lesser of two evils” ruse.
Would your ideal candidate raise taxes or lower them? Raise spending or lower it? Increase government involvement in health care decisions, or reduce it? Reform entitlements, or status quo? Increase government control of private enterprise, or reduce it?
Don’t just whine about your choices, tell everyone what you’re looking for.
Me, I’m fine with the American in the race. Mere citizenship doesn’t qualify one to hold the office.
Vote American.
Master (de)Bater
November 1st, 2012
7:14 am
Jiggle @ 11:06 pm
“Describing Christie as a populist means he would put his allegiance toward the masses and the common good over the elites and in so doing, cut across common divisions such as political parties, social class and economic station. It was grudgingly meant as a compliment and most politicians would kill to be labeled as such. Unless they are running in a Republican primary.”
You’re right. I took the populist thing too far, but if Christie can be a populist depends on your definition of “elite.” If it means “the rich,” then I don’t believe it, because Christie doesn’t equate rich people and elite. OTOH, if “elite” is defined as a small group of people who wield power and control how other people live, then we can agree on him being “populist.” Most people don’t use the definition right and I just assumed that you were not using it literally. I’m sorry for making that assumption. My fault, and you were right to call me on it.
“In the end, you and I are trying to reasonably converse in the middle of a fraternity kegger–I don’t know why I bother with these comment sections…”
Ah. You already know what to do with the other stuff…you just pull that handle all the way and…FLUSH!
Quite honestly, even though I haven’t seen many of your posts, I’m impressed with your ability to reason among the fracas. Most libs on these forums don’t do that well. Look forward to some intelligent discussion with you in the future.
fair and balanced
November 1st, 2012
7:49 am
Governor Christie must have gotten his back up about Romney suggesting that a free can of food and and some free diapers along with private contractors will solve all the problems instead of FEMA coordination of federal and state agencies and federal disastermoney. Same as lyin Ryan asking for stimulus funds for some green pork in his district or voting for unfunded Medicare drugs.At least Christie got his priorities straight and knew who was buttering his bread. Maybe the cons in Congress will be forced to follow his example after Tuesday instead of worshiping Grover and Rush.
rwcole
November 1st, 2012
8:12 am
I wonder if Kyle and the rest of the cons are tired of telling us what Romney meant to say instead of that thing he did say. I wonder when any of the rest of them will start to wonder why they have to keep reinterpreting what their candidate says. It really is Bizarro world because I actually respect Chris Christie today and now I’m wondering how long it will be before Kyle and his friends at Fox throw their hero, Christie under a bus.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
8:24 am
Before you two get any farther down the road on this one, who do you think Chris Christie is STILL going to vote for for President?
He ain’t pulling the level for Obama.
His state needs help, and he’s not stupid enough to bite the hand that feeds him. Nothing more, nothing less.
carlosgvv
November 1st, 2012
8:33 am
Barry – 7:09 “I’m fine with the American in the race”
This post shows just how large a streak of the common runs in you.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
8:34 am
He ain’t pulling the level for Obama.
Think about it. Christie wants to be Prez in 2016 so OF COURSE he is going to vote for Obama.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
8:36 am
I guess Romney doesn’t listen when the Red Cross tells people to NOT send food items. That causes transportation and storage problems. They DO want people to send cash so they can put it to use immediately where it is needed.
Idiot
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
November 1st, 2012
8:36 am
Barry needs to make a DR appointment to get his anti-depressants ASAP.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
8:40 am
Uh, Finn?
That food won’t go to waste.
There’s still a lot of people who voted for Obama that need assistance these days.
DawgDad
November 1st, 2012
9:08 am
The irony is the leftist nut-cases trash-talk capitalism and promote all this “togetherness” nonsense in the face of disaster while they and their leaders are screaming for help from the government. Who do they think the government represents and where the government money comes from? The people, and from our capitalist system. When the leftists start solving problems with their own money I might start to listen to them. Since that by definition will never happen . . .
These people legitimately need help and the American people and our government will respond, despite all their trash talk and ingratitude.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
9:16 am
This post shows just how large a streak of the common runs in you.
———-
Most libs, like the one above, consider a love of country as “common”.
DawgDad
November 1st, 2012
9:20 am
“This post shows just how large a streak of the common runs in you.”
Were you addressing that to me? If so, I confess I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.
md
November 1st, 2012
9:37 am
“I wonder if Kyle and the rest of the cons are tired of telling us what Romney meant to say instead of that thing he did say.”
I’ve never had a problem understanding what he meant…..maybe it’s because I read the entire quote vs just the talking point put out by the left…………try it, it may help, but I’m not going to hold my breath.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
9:39 am
No, DawgDad, I was quoting carlosgvv…
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
9:40 am
Me, I’m fine with the American in the race. Mere citizenship doesn’t qualify one to hold the office.
Vote American.
Substitute “White” for American and you’ll get the real picture.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
9:41 am
I’ve never had a problem understanding what he meant…
Neither have I. Thats the problem.
“I am learning to say y’all and I like grits, and… strange things are happening to me.”
- Mitt Romney
carlosgvv
November 1st, 2012
9:44 am
Barry – 9:16
Most Americans, liberal and conservative, do love their country. In that sense, they are common. Unlike you, however, most also consider Obama to be an American. Since you think he’s not, please furnish us the irrefutable proof of such.
md
November 1st, 2012
9:53 am
“I am learning to say y’all and I like grits, and… strange things are happening to me.”
And??
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
9:54 am
Morning, y’all. I got started this morning right with a biscuit and some cheesy grits.
_ Mitt Romney
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
9:55 am
And???
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
9:55 am
“I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that’s the America millions of Americans believe in. That’s the America I love.”
- Mitt Romney
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
9:57 am
“I’m an unofficial southerner.”
- Mitt Romney
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
9:57 am
I don’t see anyone rushing to the defense of this administration following the reporting of that classified cable from Ambassador Stevens regarding Benghazi to the State Dept. 3 weeks before he was murdered.
Georgia
November 1st, 2012
9:58 am
GOP definition: “Communism is anything that benefits the guy at the other end of the handshake that secures a “deal”.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:00 am
A serious thought would get lost in Cheesy’s poor excuse for a brain.
Georgia
November 1st, 2012
10:02 am
Insurance contracts have fine print that indemnifies any payments to homeowners. They also have fine print which guarantees all payments to shareholders. buy. Buy. BUY!!!!!!!!
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
10:02 am
92 killed at American embassies under Reagan.
33 killed at American embassies under Bush.
4 killed at American embassies under Obama.
President Obama was right. He has the BEST record of defending our embassies.
Never seen anybody dispute those numbers either.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:05 am
“92 killed at American embassies under Reagan.
33 killed at American embassies under Bush.
4 killed at American embassies under Obama.”
And only one of them has had the evidence suppressed and/or covered up, Cheesy.
Can you name which one of the three?
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
10:08 am
Think about it. Almost 100 people killed at embassies during Reagan’s watch.
What the he77 was he doing? Was he asleep?
Unbelievable incompetence.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:11 am
Deflection, Cheesy.
Reagan isn’t on the ballot and didn’t cover up what his administration knew in advance.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
10:11 am
And only one of them has had the evidence suppressed and/or covered up, Cheesy.
Can you name which one of the three?
Yes Ronald Reagan.
Iran Contra.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
November 1st, 2012
10:15 am
“As president, I will create 12 million new jobs.” — Mitt Romney, during the second presidential debate
“Government does not create jobs. Government does not create jobs.” — Mitt Romney, 45 minutes later.
Georgia
November 1st, 2012
10:15 am
The homeowner insurance and health insurance companies have merged. Now the entire Eastern Seaboard has a pre-existing condition: it’s at or below sea level. Payment denied.
Kudos to Romney for acting quickly when he learned that Insurance Industry shareholders needed finger sandwiches, water and coffee for their emergency meeting today at noon. Even though it’s his job to perpetuate injustice in underwriting, he did move awfully quick. Said one shareholder, “Romney called me and said if I needed anything, like a gluten free hors d’oeuvres or those delightfully light croissants, that he’d send a helicopter if he had to.”
md
November 1st, 2012
10:15 am
“President Obama was right. He has the BEST record of defending our embassies.”
And he did it from Vegas……..good job Barry……….(sarc)
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
10:16 am
“92 killed at American embassies under Reagan.
33 killed at American embassies under Bush.
4 killed at American embassies under Obama.”
And only one of them has had the evidence suppressed and/or covered up, “
Only one of the above statements is a lie. Can you name which one?
md
November 1st, 2012
10:17 am
“Government does not create jobs. Government does not create jobs.” — Mitt Romney, 45 minutes later.
Most of us know that means Obama’s gov’t, as it has no clue that the private sector is the money maker…..Romney doesn’t have that problem………
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:18 am
More deflection, Cheesy (or and outright lie).
Reagan had Iran-Contra, but it had nothing to do with the deaths of American diplomats.
You’d know that if you knew, well – anything.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:22 am
Prove the lie, MarkV.
Fox News uncovers a classified cable sent 3 weeks earlier by the very ambassador killed, citing security issues at Benghazi due to – wait for it – 10 different terrorist groups in that area. He SPECIFICALLY states that the Benghazi compound cannot be secured from an attack by any of these groups. The cable was sent DIRECTLY to Hillary Clinton and distributed to National Security and State Dept security contacts.
This is a coverup of epic proportions, except in the fantasy world of Obama supporters who will do anything to defend this administration’s incompetence at every turn.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
10:23 am
You can’t deny Romney’s expertise in cleaning up after a disaster. He has reminded us that he was once involved in cleaning up a school football field.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
10:26 am
“Government does not create jobs. Government does not create jobs.” — Mitt Romney, 45 minutes later.
Most of us know that means Obama’s gov’t, …”
Speak for yourself, md.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
10:28 am
“Fox News uncovers a classified cable sent 3 weeks earlier by the very ambassador killed, citing security issues at Benghazi due to – wait for it – 10 different terrorist groups in that area. He SPECIFICALLY states that the Benghazi compound cannot be secured from an attack by any of these groups. The cable was sent DIRECTLY to Hillary Clinton and distributed to National Security and State Dept security contacts.
This is a coverup of epic proportions,…”
Only in the minds of insane.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:29 am
Even I knew md wasn’t speaking for you, MarkV.
He couldn’t lower his intelligence that far down.
md
November 1st, 2012
10:35 am
““RSO (Regional Security Officer) expressed concerns with the ability to defend Post in the event of a coordinated attack due to limited manpower, security measures, weapons capabilities, host nation support, and the overall size of the compound,” the cable said.”
Make of it what one will, but if true, this BS about a movie and protestors should be an insult to ALL of us……..even those with a blind allegiance to this admin……..
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
November 1st, 2012
10:38 am
And all of a sudden, when pressed to prove the lie, MarkV goes silent.
All too typical of his kind.
We know them as – cowards.
MarkV
November 1st, 2012
10:38 am
Tiberius @10:29 am
“Even I knew md wasn’t speaking for you, MarkV.
He couldn’t lower his intelligence that far down.”
How typical for Tiberius, when he, as usual, has nothing intelligent to write.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
November 1st, 2012
10:41 am
Unlike you, however, most also consider Obama to be an American. Since you think he’s not, please furnish us the irrefutable proof of such.
———-
You understand the difference between mere citizenship and being an American, right?
Obozo: citizen.
President Romney: American.