2012 Tuesday: A real deficit hawk endorses . . .
David M. Walker has been touring America talking about the need to face facts about our federal debt. Walker, who was U.S. comptroller general under Presidents Clinton and George W. Bush, came to Atlanta with former Clinton staffer Alice Rivlin and other members of the bipartisan Fiscal Solutions Tour last March: Here’s what I wrote about it at the time (quoting Rivlin but not Walker). He has even been mentioned as a possible independent presidential candidate in the near future; the New York Times’ Thomas Friedman actually wrote a column suggesting that Walker run this year.
So when Walker says he’s endorsing one of the two men who are major-party candidates for president this year, it’s worth listening. Here’s what he wrote in an op-ed in Sunday’s Washington Times:
From a fiscal perspective, I am convinced that both major presidential candidates want to achieve a “grand bargain,” although they clearly differ on how to get there. Unfortunately, while I would prefer to make a decision based on a candidate’s reform plans, neither of the major presidential candidates has outlined a comprehensive and specific fiscal reform plan that meets the six reform criteria that I have advocated. This plan must be pro-growth, socially equitable, culturally acceptable, mathematically accurate, politically feasible, and have meaningful bipartisan support. Therefore, I am basing my decision on who to support as president and other federal offices on the following criteria:
* The person’s breadth and depth of experience.
* The person’s demonstrated leadership ability.
* The person’s commitment to fiscal responsibility and real transformation of government.
* The person’s commitment to working on a bipartisan basis to achieve real results.
Applying these criteria has led me to decide to vote for both Republicans and Democrats in the upcoming federal election races in my home state of Connecticut. Clearly the most important decision is my vote for president, our nation’s CEO.
Based on the above principles, I believe that Gov. Mitt Romney is the clear choice for president.
He has more to say about Romney at the link. But, given the pressing issue of the federal deficits and debt, and the way the Obama campaign has assailed Romney’s tax-reform plan, Walker’s endorsement of Romney instead of Obama is interesting and should carry a lot of weight with his fellow independents.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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142 comments Add your comment
Georgia
October 30th, 2012
11:45 am
Stay firsty my friends.
cc
October 30th, 2012
11:46 am
Clearly Walker has reached a decision that the majority of American citizens have already reached. It is a good endorsement, though, and I’m sure President Romney is happy to have received it.
adam smith's invisible hand
October 30th, 2012
11:48 am
Does Rev. Moon’s group still own the Washington Times?
Georgia
October 30th, 2012
11:55 am
A proper budget plan must be pro-growth, culturally acceptable, socially equitable, mathematically correct, politically feasible and have meaningful bi-partisan support. Okay, take out the redundancies. culturally acceptable = socially equitable……. mathematically correct is intrinsic to a proper balanced budget plan…….. bipartisan support and politically feasible are dittos.
Thus a proper balanced budget must be pro growth, nonpartisan, and leave social security out of it. In other words, impossible. I’m jealous of David M Walker. His tin foil hat works better than mine.
Beyond The Middle of the Road
October 30th, 2012
11:56 am
It is a significant endorsement but it matters very little for two main reasons. (1) I dare say very few folks know who he is let alone recognize his name, and (2) Sandy is going to steal the headlines for days to come, and deservedly so.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
12:00 pm
Beyond @ 11:56: I guess it comes down to whether we think undecided voters (I know I said “independent” earlier, but there’s a lot of overlap) are high-information voters trying to make sense of it all, or low-information voters just now waking up from their political coma.
The former group will know his name and might consider it important. The latter group, if it hears about his endorsement, will probably say, “huh?”
I don’t know which group is larger at this point…
Tall
October 30th, 2012
12:00 pm
…..”Thus a proper balanced budget must be pro growth, nonpartisan, and leave social security out of it. In other words, impossible. I’m jealous of David M Walker. His tin foil hat works better than mine…”
True. It’s obvious where the cuts need to come from. Eventually, political decisions will be made by the currency and interest rate markets. Hopefull, the Chinese banks won’t need to be repaid on those U.S. Treasury securities ahead of maturity.
Dusty
October 30th, 2012
12:03 pm
Good one, Kyle. Another excellent learned score for Romney.
I go away to think about it.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
12:07 pm
We already know how we’ll Obozo will do in dealing with our fiscal problems–he’s committed to making things worse.
Let’s elect someone who loves their country and has a track record of success.
Let’s Vote American.
RC--(R--apoi)
October 30th, 2012
12:12 pm
Well, this guy’s been a deficit nut for generations, so I reckon he knows a thing or two about it. Got a headache? Take two aspirin, balance the budget, pay off the debt, and call me in the morning. Got colledge cost problems? Balance the budget, pay off the debt, and wait a few lifetimes to go to colledge. No jobs out there? Balance the budget, pay off the debt, and stop eating so much.
Anyhow, you get the picture. He’ll probly pop out of his coffin and chew the undertaker out for charging so much before he goes under.
adam smith's invisible hand
October 30th, 2012
12:14 pm
In answer to my own question – yes, according to Wikipedia, those tied to the Unification Church, founded by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, still own the Washington Times. These conservatives have strange bedfellows.
Beyond The Middle of the Road
October 30th, 2012
12:15 pm
“Let’s Vote American.” So you have no preference between any of the candidates?
Kosh21
October 30th, 2012
12:18 pm
I cannot believe Walker would endorse Romney, whose only plan for the deficit is to cut revenue by $5 Trillion and increase spending (defense) by $2 Trillion. How is that fiscally responsible? Repubs have been trying to “starve the beast” since Reagan tripled the national debt and it never works.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
12:20 pm
Walker was a hero to libtards during Our President Bush’s administration because he constantly railed against His measly $300 billion deficits.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
12:21 pm
Deficits don’t matter!
~ Dick Cheney
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
12:22 pm
Repubs have been trying to “starve the beast” since Reagan tripled the national debt and it never works.
No, they haven’t. Republicans only talk that game when they aren’t in power. When they get in power it’s time to throw money about like a sailor in port.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
12:25 pm
Finn agrees with Cheney?
carlosgvv
October 30th, 2012
12:25 pm
Walker lists six things he knows are not going to happen. Then he endorses Romney. What he really wants for the middle class and poor is to “let them eat cake”.
md
October 30th, 2012
12:26 pm
“I cannot believe Walker would endorse Romney, whose only plan for the deficit is to cut revenue by $5 Trillion and increase spending (defense) by $2 Trillion.”
Too funny…….and the biggest change of all…..unleash the private sector, which just so happens to make ALL the capital to run this country, something Obama is totally clueless about……he has this strange notion that the gov’t has it’s own piggy bank and is the benevolent one……..
md
October 30th, 2012
12:28 pm
“What he really wants for the middle class and poor is to “let them eat cake”.”
Keep going in the direction we are going and cake won’t even be an option…….did Greece not teach you folks anything? Spain? How about France? Google can help with one’s education should one avail themselves of the opportunity…………
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
12:30 pm
Want desperation?
And while Romney also said he would suspend his campaign on Monday and Tuesday, that turns out not to be true. Romney is holding a big rally in Ohio today, which the campaign is pitching as a “storm relief event” in the hope of insulating themselves from criticism.
Using the storm for political means? Check.
southpaw
October 30th, 2012
12:31 pm
Invisible hand-
The article you cited mentions that Moon himself founded the Washington Times. Are you surprised that people close to him own it? Or are you just going for guilt by association? A lot of us conservatives don’t adhere to all of the beliefs of the Unification Church, but if the Unification Church wants to issue a conservative publication, we’re not going to try and censor them. Freedom of speech, and such things.
That Black Guy
October 30th, 2012
12:35 pm
Off topic.
Bruno, hope your family made it through Sandy with no drama.
My brother in Cape May lost power but everyone is ok.
H.E. Pennypacker
October 30th, 2012
12:38 pm
To some extent he is making a point similar to David Brooks and David Frum in that Romney is much more likely to be bipartisan, if nothing else due to the exceptionally high obstinacy of the GOP members of Congress.
MarkV
October 30th, 2012
12:46 pm
Someone who endorses Romney from a fiscal perspective, after Romney had proposed a fiscally totally irresponsible tax plan, has no credibility.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
12:47 pm
Harry Reid is already promising Democrat obstruction regardless of who wins, Pennypacker.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 30th, 2012
12:50 pm
Well, at least we know Walker isn’t retarded.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 30th, 2012
12:51 pm
I take that back, even a tard can see how obvious this is.
JDW
October 30th, 2012
1:03 pm
Interesting logic…doesn’t really hold water but interesting. For example he says
“A super-majority also support putting everything on the table to achieve a fiscal grand bargain, including a combination of spending reductions and additional tax revenue”
Yet he want to endorse the candidate that has already sold his soul to Grover Norquist and has unequivocally said NO NEW REVENUE…bit bassakwards now isn’t it?
His other faulty premise is this one…
“A President Romney would have far more influence over a Republican-controlled House, which seems to be assured.”
Most assuredly true, however he would be at an equal disadvantage with a Democratic Senate which seems equally assured. Walker seems to place great weight on a issue that is going give neither candidate an advantage.
I apply many of his criteria yet reach the opposite conclusion primarily because of this one point…
“I am convinced that both major presidential candidates want to achieve a “grand bargain,””
Romney has said nothing to support that belief and in fact has made a number of statements that run directly contrary to it. A grand bargain must, by definition include spending cuts and revenue increases and Romney is only playing the game with half the cards.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 30th, 2012
1:05 pm
* The person’s breadth and depth of experience.
One can almost see Walker giggling as he typed that one.
Logical Dude
October 30th, 2012
1:05 pm
Quoting the quote: Clearly the most important decision is my vote for president, our nation’s CEO.
Clearly, this person does not comprehend that “CEO” is not the same as “President”.
CEO works for the profit of the company,sometimes at the expense of workers and customers.
Presidents make tough decisions that have nothing to do with money, so trying to make President equal to CEO is just wrong. Sure, some people look at it that way, but it shouldn’t be.
/driveby
sailfish
October 30th, 2012
1:06 pm
I don’t know how he comes to the conclusion that romney’s math is better when nobody knows the answer to what it is exactly that romney will be cutting?
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
1:06 pm
JDW @ 1:03: It’s very simple. The choice is between Romney and Obama. The latter has been a fiscal disaster of historic proportions.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
1:07 pm
President Romney never ruled out new revenue. He’s been pretty clear that it wouldn’t come through raising taxes however.
MANGLER
October 30th, 2012
1:09 pm
Let’s compare:
“Failure” rate of companies Bain invested in while under Romneys watch: 22%
“Failure” rate of companies the DOE invested in while under Obamas watch 8%
But that’s not exactly apples to apples is it? See, an equity firms sole purpose is to extract profit no matter how for the benefit of its shareholders. The DOE, and vicariously the Gov’t in general’s sole purpose is to serve the greater population, not necessarily eek out the maximum profit from each division.
So then when you see that the Gov’t is better in this case at keeping it’s investments alive than a company who’s sole purpose is to make investments …
But that kind of stuff is frivolous spending and adds to the deficit? Those deficits that don’t matter when the GOP is in control (Reagan, Bush and Bush), but suddenly matter when a Dem is in charge? Those deficits?
Georgia
October 30th, 2012
1:11 pm
2012: the first election in our history to be decided by barometric pressure.
sailfish
October 30th, 2012
1:11 pm
**The latter has been a fiscal disaster of historic proportions**
I guess you would have to include bush and congress as complicit partners for a true picture of the total deficit debacle.
JDW
October 30th, 2012
1:13 pm
@Kyle…”It’s very simple. The choice is between Romney and Obama. The latter has been a fiscal disaster of historic proportions”
That is factually inaccurate…you want to talk disaster lets talk Duhbya…Obama has been average which is a damn sight better than his “Worst in Modern History” predecessor. Now you want us you believe many of the same lies repackaged…PHLEEEEZE
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
1:14 pm
Logical Dude, also note that CEO’s rarely are expected to make decisions that can affect/effect violent conflicts around the globe. Rarely do CEO’s need to make decisions that call for Americans to give their lives for the sake of the country.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
1:16 pm
The Bush years were so great and ended on such an high note that we should vote to get us 4 more years of that!
“This sucker could go down”
~ Shrub, the Decider
JDW
October 30th, 2012
1:16 pm
@LBB…”He’s been pretty clear that it wouldn’t come through raising taxes however.”
What are you planning…a return to the virtues of alchemy? Maybe you could let Bernie out of jail and he could run a worldwide pyramid scheme.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
1:18 pm
JDW @ 1:13: Average? Average?? What has been “average” about Obama’s fiscal record?
Bush’s deficits were bad. I’ve never argued otherwise. But Obama’s have been catastrophic. This is true even if you include all of FY09 on Bush’s ledger, which you and I have argued about before.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
1:18 pm
MANGLER, you’re ignoring the fact that Bain was a turnaround firm–the companies it invested in we’re in trouble before Bain got involved. To have saved 80% of them is an excellent success rate.
sailfish
October 30th, 2012
1:21 pm
“Average? Average?? What has been “average” about Obama’s fiscal record?”
A better question would be; what has been “above average” about obama’s fiscal record?
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
1:21 pm
JDW, until you’re able to understand how tax revenue can go up without raising tax rates, I’m afraid any time spent on you is wasted.
carlosgvv
October 30th, 2012
1:24 pm
md – 12:28
That is a non sequitur.
A dictionary can help with one’s education.
sailfish
October 30th, 2012
1:24 pm
lil
yes, lets look the other way with all the companies bain gutted and fileted piling on debt and stripping the assets, bravisimo.
md
October 30th, 2012
1:24 pm
Some of you seem to be forgetting that Bush was calling for reform of F&F as far back as 2001…….I’m totally amazed how many want to lay it all at his feet.
I can actually see the collapse not happening had something been done at that point, but we will never know. But what we do know is that the party of no already existed, and it didn’t begin with an r……….
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
1:24 pm
Obozo’s deficits and spending have been above average.
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
1:28 pm
Kyle-
Average? Average?? What has been “average” about Obama’s fiscal record?
I couldn’t let this slide, besides the stimulus, what actually did he do to affect our fiscal situation. Most increases in the budget are built in(7.5%) And doesn’t the house control all spending anyway?
And you do realize there are breakdowns of what is the cause of the year over year deficits right?
md
October 30th, 2012
1:28 pm
“A dictionary can help with one’s education.”
I doubt one will find much on the downfall of Greece, or the current fiscal crisis of the other 2 in a dictionary…….but one is more than welcome to give it a try……they’ll probably have the same amount of info as when they started though and ignorance can be bliss……….
adam smith's invisible hand
October 30th, 2012
1:30 pm
The debt has gone up under Obama – no doubt about it. It’s great that some of you have amnesia (or Romnesia) and forget how horrible the economy was at the end of Bush’s term in office. If the feds had not injected money into the economy we’d be having soup lines, not lines for the iPhone 5. If you really want to protest how the economy has done under Obama, I suggest you give back profits in your stock/savings/IRA portfolio from the 60% gain in the stock market while Obama has been president.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
1:30 pm
Revenues as a % of GDP, 1946-2009 average: 17.8
Spending as a % of GDP, 1946-2009 average: 19.7
Deficit as a % of GDP, 1946-2009 average: 1.9
Revenues as a % of GDP, 2010-2012 average: 15.4
Spending as a % of GDP, 2010-2012 average: 23.7
Deficit as a % of GDP, 2010-2012 average: 8.3
And before you scream “Bush tax cuts!”: Revenues as a % of GDP, 2002-2008: 17.4 — almost the same as the entire 1946-2009 average. It’s the recession, which brings us to Obamanomics…
ran
October 30th, 2012
1:30 pm
Enter your comments here
jconservative
October 30th, 2012
1:32 pm
I have wondered why Walker has stayed out of the fray. Glad to see he has recommended and the recommendation is no surprise.
Now if Romney will read some of Walker’s writings and adopt some of his ideas, we may get out of this mess yet.
Randy Ayn
October 30th, 2012
1:35 pm
Kyle – do you understand how percentages work? Bush killed GDP, so, of course revenues/GDP would appear to be high. The denominator, our economy, got smaller which makes the percentage rate higher. Now go post how the stock markets have done under GOP vs. Dem presidents.
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
1:36 pm
Kyle –
It’s the recession, which brings us to Obamanomics…
Didn’t ou just kind of prove the point that the deficit was a result of the recession?
You have a reduction in revenue of 2.4 % and an increase in spending of 4%. That nets to a 1.6% deficit which is below the 1.9& average.
md
October 30th, 2012
1:37 pm
” I suggest you give back profits in your stock/savings/IRA portfolio from the 60% gain in the stock market while Obama has been president.”
I guess some still need reminding that corps slashed 23 million employees and their benefits from the expense side of the income statement……………
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
1:38 pm
Randy Ayn is right by the way. If spending remained flat, as the recession worsened then spending percentage would always look big.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
1:40 pm
MANGLER @ 1:09: You’re right about the comparison not being apples to apples, but not for the right reason.
A private equity firm like Bain is, by definition, risking its investors’ money. The investors understand there are risks. If those risks become unbearable, they’ll take their money elsewhere.
The government, OTOH, is not supposed to be risking taxpayer money to subsidize proprietary research for private, for-profit companies. (Solyndra, Fisker, et al. were not conducting general, basic research.) And if the risks the government takes with taxpayer money become unbearable, we don’t have the choice to direct our taxes elsewhere.
We can, however, vote out the management.
Oblama
October 30th, 2012
1:42 pm
The obvious is that Obama is a a fiscal Socialist Liberal. $6,000,000,000,000 added tot eh Fed debt in just 4 years tells you that.
JDW
October 30th, 2012
1:43 pm
@Kyle…”This is true even if you include all of FY09 on Bush’s ledger, which you and I have argued about before.”
Yet it is simply not true…Bush grew spending during his term (FY01 to FY09) 8.34% a year…quite a bit and higher than Reagan at 6.79% and Bush 1 at 5.4%.
Obama by comparison has grown spending at a 2.61% annual rate, which by the way is one of the issues with economic growth. You are attempting to make the asinine statement that Obama should have been the only President since WWII to DECREASE spending…come on…it will NEVER happen (Romney or insert generic Republican won’t do it either). Best you can do is slow growth as he has.
The problem is this Duhbya grew revenues at a PALTRY 1.18% per year…what a DEBACLE. Compare that with Reagan at 6.59% BTW still slower than spending growth and Bush 1 at 3.26% likewise slower.
Obama has increased revenue at 5.47% which is MORE than spending growth.
Your problem is he isn’t cleaning up the mess fast enough to suit you and you fail to recognize that he has in fact achieved one very large part of the solution…revenues are growing faster than spending.
sailfish
October 30th, 2012
1:44 pm
“We can, however, vote out the management”
Meet the new management, the same as the old management, especially in politics.
Oblama
October 30th, 2012
1:45 pm
Obama is our 1st “Reality Show” President known as “The Great Divider”.. and he is about to “redistribute” a whole lot of wealth to NYC with the excuse of Hurricane Sandy to lard the coffers of his supporters.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
1:48 pm
Randy Ayn @ 1:35: But spending didn’t stay flat; Obama and Congress chose to increase it. So you can’t just chalk it up to a shrunken denominator.
The 2010-12 average (which absolves Obama of all responsibility for FY09, which I’ve previously explained isn’t fair but, hey, I’m feeling generous today) in inflation-adjusted terms has been $3.14T. The 2005-09 average (which puts all the responsibility for FY09 on Bush) was $2.696T.
So, spending has grown by one-sixth on average, even when adjusted for inflation, between Bush’s second term and Obama’s first. That’s a whopper of an increase, independent of what happened with GDP.
md
October 30th, 2012
1:48 pm
” to lard the coffers of his supporters”
Bad choice of words with Bloomberg involved…..I’m pretty sure even the word lard is outlawed in NY
Oblama
October 30th, 2012
1:49 pm
Y’Obama…. time to send you back to the private sector …… YOU ARE FIRED!
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
1:49 pm
JDW @ 1:43: We’ve argued this point about who’s responsible for FY09, and whether that higher level spending should have remained in place or not, dozens of times before. I’m not re-litigating it today.
Georgia
October 30th, 2012
1:52 pm
Consider all comments here as “Been Booed”. Here’s your treat: a nice cookie. Don’t forget to pass it on to the others on your bus.
Most of Wallstreet, nearly all the bankers still can’t explain what happened in 2008. The same finanacial instraments they didn’t understand before are being traded by the same people who sank the system. Obama inherited this windfall. Globalization is probably slowing down projections and we may have entered a new normal of very slow growth. The world is trying to beat us at our own game, so how can we grow like before?
Romney represents the Bush Power Machine. That money is the same. That support is the same. Romney is the new W. Obama is the new Lincoln. He wants to free the Slavs, (foreign policy), he wants to end the 36 civil wars in the world, and he wants to appeal to the better angels of mother nature, (Sandy disaster relief)
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
1:52 pm
The 2010-12 average (which absolves Obama of all responsibility for FY09, which I’ve previously explained isn’t fair but, hey, I’m feeling generous today) in inflation-adjusted terms has been $3.14T. The 2005-09 average (which puts all the responsibility for FY09 on Bush) was $2.696T.
444 billion(based on your averages)..is a whopper in trillion dollar budgets, during a recession….
Is that what you are trying to sell? Is that also comparing apples to apples anyway as Obama included the wars on book and Bush kept them off books by the way?
JDW
October 30th, 2012
1:55 pm
@Kyle…BTW your GDP %’s are really irrelevant…Duhbya blew the denominator out of the water…the other thing you COMPLETLEY ignore is that had Obama done as you wish and cut spending by 20% we would be on the front end of Great Depression II.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
1:55 pm
“Some people” also cherry-pick quotes, apparently. I clearly made the point in the very next paragraph that spending is one-sixth higher, which is a very significant increase when we’ve already adjusted for inflation.
Furthermore, the numbers I’ve posted represent actual outlays, not budget figures. Data here. So your “wars off the books” point doesn’t apply.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
1:56 pm
JDW: See my 1:48.
ragnar danneskjold
October 30th, 2012
1:56 pm
Endorsements help the dithering and otherwise weak minds, so the endorsement will not hurt Mr. Romney. I suspect most potential Romney supporters made up their minds without regard to endorsements; thinkers don’t need someone to tell them how to vote.
JDW
October 30th, 2012
2:01 pm
@Kyle…”We’ve argued this point about who’s responsible for FY09, and whether that higher level spending should have remained in place or not, dozens of times before. I’m not re-litigating it today.”
Indeed we have….mine and Politifact’s analysis agree….
“Obama came into office “with a $1.3 trillion deficit before passing any law”
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/29/barack-obama/obama-inherited-deficits-bush-administration/
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
2:02 pm
Was Obozo’s failed stimulus “on the books”, or was it “unfunded” like the Iraq war?
MarkV
October 30th, 2012
2:06 pm
Spending as a % of GDP, 1946-2009 average: 19.7
Spending as a % of GDP, 2010-2012 average: 23.7
When anybody argues with those numbers, then he/she apparently did not notice the 2008 recession. Is it any surprise than when recession creates masses of unemployed who need support, and requires spending to put money into the pockets of people to increase demand, that spending % increases?
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
2:06 pm
Kyle,
I didn’t cherry pick anything.In reference to my point it meant nothing. You say he increased spending by one-sixth, which according to you averages is roughly 444 billion dollars. Considering GDP takes into account government spending, and you have falling consumer spending(also in GDP calculation), wouldn’t it make sense for the government to spend money to keep GDP up.
The off the books part was an actual question. Without you citing the source I asked were you comparing apples to apples.
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
2:07 pm
LBB-
Was Obozo’s failed stimulus “on the books”, or was it “unfunded” like the Iraq war?
It was on the books. And kinda hard to consider it a failure when the CBO and apparently the VP candidate requested funds citing job creation
Scooter
October 30th, 2012
2:10 pm
You could just read the four criteria by which he based his decision and know he wasn’t choosing The Obama, as I don’t see The Obama as any of those.
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
2:15 pm
Kyle
I find that chart pretty interesting.
By comapring CLinton’s last 4 years and Bush’s first 4 and adjusting for inflation, Bush increased spending by 262.6 billion.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
2:21 pm
Some people @ 2:15: Bush’s spending was bad enough. I’ve never defended his spending. Of course, Romney didn’t defend it either, when asked about it at the second debate.
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
2:32 pm
What about ronald Reagan’s 346.4 increase in his second term over Jimmy Carter’s last term.
I’m tryin to find out what is an acceptable level of spending increase because as the population grows, spending grows apparently.
MANGLER
October 30th, 2012
2:34 pm
Kyle,
It’s not OK for Gov’t to risk taxpayer money on private for-profit companies that are creating initiatives and technologies that can alter our dependence as a nation on fossil fuels, but it’s OK to use public dollars to subsidize private for-profit companies to operate public charter schools, or to build mass transit systems and infrastructure with tax dollars only to then privatize them and hand the keys over to private for-profit companies?
The thing is, when a private company attempts to run something for profit and there is no profit, or not enough to make the shareholders happy, it simply shuts the doors regardless of whatever social benifit the company provided. If the Government were to be run like a for-profit company, then there would be no more programs that provided necessary social benifits, like highways, transit, schools, parks, libraries, beaches, police force, fire fighters, or military, because they all cost more to maintain than they could possibly bring in as profit.
Wait, it’s perfectly OK to spend trillions on the military. I forgot about that one.
Del
October 30th, 2012
2:36 pm
It’s hard to imagine any objective voter voting for Obama given his less than stellar first term track record. None the less it looks like a toss up as to who will win.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
2:40 pm
Wrong. Obozo’s failed stimulus was “emergency spending” and was off budget.
But then, Democrats haven’t passed a budget in years, so who really knows?
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
2:42 pm
Del-
It depends on your expectations of what he was going to get accomplished in one term and whether or not you see progress.
To put it in perspective, the Unemployment rate is following the same pattern as Reagan, who conservatives consider perfect.
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
2:44 pm
LBB-
I was referring in terms to outlays on the chart Kyle posted.
My bad.
And you don’t need a budget if you constantly pass appropriation (spending) bills.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
2:47 pm
It’s not OK for Gov’t to risk taxpayer money on private for-profit companies that are creating initiatives and technologies that can alter our dependence as a nation on fossil fuels, but it’s OK to use public dollars to subsidize private for-profit companies to operate public charter schools
—-
You gotta be a real moron to not understand the difference between a government subsidizing a private company, versus purchasing outright a product or service.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
2:49 pm
Budgets are bad for Democrats because it makes there scheming so much more difficult to get away with.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
3:01 pm
But spending didn’t stay flat; Obama and Congress chose to increase it.
Usually when you have a downward economy tax revenues go down. Is that in dispute? I know that’s a little too Keynesian for you.
When the private sector isn’t spending then the government has to step in and spend some money to keep the economy going. That’s why it’s foolish to try to cut the deficit now. You cut during the good times and spend during the bad times – pretty much the exact opposite of the private sector. That’s why it works and we shouldn’t reverse our path now.
rightwing troll
October 30th, 2012
3:01 pm
“The latter has been a fiscal disaster of historic proportions”
And the former promises to be as well…
rightwing troll
October 30th, 2012
3:02 pm
“It’s hard to imagine any objective voter voting for Obama given his less than stellar first term track record.”
2004?
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
3:09 pm
MANGLER @ 2:34: Every one of your comments about “for-profit companies operating public charter schools” proves your lack of understanding about what these companies do. As I’ve explained in previous comments, these companies contract with charter schools to provide some administrative and management services. They don’t own the school. They are vendors — just like construction companies, textbook publishers, school supplies providers, technology providers, etc.
OTOH, the federal government was simply handing money to these “green” companies with nothing in exchange for taxpayers. These were investments, except that the companies kept any gains and taxpayers bore any losses. Any research they conducted was proprietary.
As for mass transit: I have never advocated giving public infrastructure to private companies. Rather, I would support contracting with private companies to provide services. So, a private company might staff the trains, but the trains and rails would remain publicly owned assets.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
3:09 pm
less than stellar first term track record
ACA
Kicked Banks Out of Federal Student Loan Program
Expanded Pell Grant Spending
DADT
Bin Laden
Detroit
When is the last time a pirate messed with us? Oh yeah, he has a hole in his head
Dodd-Frank
Improved America’s Image Abroad
higher fuel efficiency standards
lame?
cc
October 30th, 2012
3:12 pm
“lame?”
Indeed you are! Finally something on which we agree!
JDW
October 30th, 2012
3:17 pm
@Kyle…more thoughts on the fallacy of Romney cutting spending…it won’t happen
…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/10/30/mitt-romneys-voodoo-spending-cuts/
Of course the main reason is he won’t be elected…but even if he were…it won’ happen.
JDW
October 30th, 2012
3:21 pm
@Kyle…”As I’ve explained in previous comments, these companies contract with charter schools to provide some administrative and management services. They don’t own the school. They are vendors — just like construction companies, textbook publishers, school supplies providers, technology providers, etc.”
Sorry but that is simply not true…they may not own the real estate,, but in some cases they may, in almost every case they own the business…everything from hiring teachers on.
The only type of charter school that really works is one where the Parents are the “operators”
Del
October 30th, 2012
3:26 pm
lame? Yep lame accomplishments not to mention the economic recovery failure and huge increase in the deficit. I will give him recognition for OBL, however, he didn’t do any of the heavy lifting like he wants the public believe.
Dusty
October 30th, 2012
3:33 pm
OH my goodness, I have to go get my early vote and make some changes.
According to what is written here many times, BUSH is running again. Seems it is Reagan. BUSH & BUSH. (I bet Reagan is surprised!). Then there’s “Shrub the Divider” and the “BUSH Power Machine” ON & ON. iI don’t think liberals even know how to spell O-b-a-m-a anymore…
They are so empowered by BUSH. It’s BUSH here, BUSH there and BUSH everywhere..
If so…. I look forward to happy days without all the scares in Washington, the foot in mouth, the forgotten Libya security, the soaring deficit, and the fancy vacations.
Oh nevermind .. Bush is not running. I will leave my vote for that great guy Romney! Happy days are here again. Go ROMNEY, the thinking man!
Aynie Sue
October 30th, 2012
3:34 pm
There’s just one nagging little problem with the “deficit hawk” notions. Deficit spending creates and sustains millions of jobs, so eliminating the deficit will plunge the nation into economic depression.
The choice is economic recovery vs. deficit reduction. You can’t have both. The best course of action is economic recovery now, deficit reduction later. Consumer demand must first recover to a level that encourages profitable investment opportunities for private capital.
The deficit hawk Walker is also a bad judge of character. Romney’s commitment to this and that is just drivel about non-existent “plans” and numbers snatched out of thin air. What kind of leader agrees with all sides of every issue, and makes up lies to cover his consistently bad positions on past issues?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
3:35 pm
Sorry folks but Romney isn’t going to win Ohio. No way – not when he is spreading lies about Jeep to the very people who work in those plants.
What an IDIOT! Go sell that crap in Iowa or Nevada but not to the very people who make a living at it.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
3:36 pm
Aynie Sue is spot on.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
3:39 pm
JDW @ 3:21: If they are contracted to provide management services, who else would you expect to hire the teachers?
Dusty
October 30th, 2012
3:40 pm
Would someone please tell JDW to take off his scary Halloween outfit and stop talking about charter schools?
Boo! It’s the deficit, honey. The OBAMA deficit! Move on..
Bruno
October 30th, 2012
3:40 pm
Bruno, hope your family made it through Sandy with no drama.
My brother in Cape May lost power but everyone is ok.
TBG–Thanks for asking. I didn’t call yesterday in the middle of the maelstrom, will call tonight. Fortunately, my sisters both live inland a while, so flooding shouldn’t be a problem.
Looks like Gov Christie is doing his part:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/n-j-gov-chris-christie-lauded-for-storm-efforts/
Democrats Patronize Women and Blacks
October 30th, 2012
3:52 pm
If Obama has such a stellar track record, why is he running like the challenger. Other than the fact he killed OBL, he hasn’t done much bragging this campaign. Interesting that the vast majority of Obama’s accomplishments from Finn are all Liberal centric successesss. ACA,DADT and Dodd-Frank are some of the exact reasons I am voting against Obama. And as for improving our image abroad….the Terrorists don’t seem to love us anymore than under Bush and he is trying to cede some of our sovereignty to the UN. Epic Fail on that particular point. Never had Finn figured for a Kool-Aid drinker.
Dusty
October 30th, 2012
3:57 pm
Bruno
Glad to hear your NJ family is away from the stormy coast. .
So Christie is being lauded for storm efforts. Those Republican governors know how to get things done!! You can tell a lot about a man who has had a good experience running a state. It is one every president needs.
Liberal Pariah
October 30th, 2012
3:58 pm
Can’t wait to see how Aynie Sue connects the dots to government spending and increased long term consumer demand.
Must understand Voodoo Economics
Del
October 30th, 2012
3:59 pm
More bad news for the Obummer
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/30/new-polls-give-gop-enthusiasm-edge/
joe
October 30th, 2012
4:00 pm
Everyone in American should heed Walker’s endorsement and follow suit by voting for Romney. Not only is he the only candidate who can actually create jobs, but he is also the only candidate who will not spend us into Greece.
The future of the USA depends on Romney winning. Think about your children and what you will burden them with by voting for Obama.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
4:06 pm
as for improving our image abroad
This has less to do with how our enemies see us and more to do with how our friends and accomplices think they can work with us.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
4:12 pm
he is also the only candidate who will not spend us into Greece.
Spending isn’t Greece’s problem. Greece’s problem is the systemic tax avoidance where even doctors claim they only make 2,000 drachma’s (or whatever it is) a year so they don’t have to pay taxes. They have a revenue problem.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
4:17 pm
more on Greece
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/09/tax-evasion-greece
md
October 30th, 2012
4:20 pm
“Deficit spending creates and sustains millions of jobs, so eliminating the deficit will plunge the nation into economic depression. ”
I do believe the operative word missing from your analysis is ‘may”……..may create jobs or may sustain jobs. There is no certainty that it will do either…….what is certain though is that it WILL add to the debt.
Japan has been trying to stimulate their economy for several decade now and currently have a debt to gdp ratio of 200%…….
Greece………will we all know how their gamble paid off…….
Georgia
October 30th, 2012
4:21 pm
The outlay vs budget data is interesting. I put a template of the Mayan Calendar over the table of actual outlays, (and not budget figures), and I came to the same conclusion. Tilt Romney. Actually, the table predicts a Romney war and hyper-inflation. Think of the stock market. Buy Gold. Support the Troops. God Bless America. After all, we Americans are the beloved 5%, using unproportional amounts of the resources also available to the despised 95% just so that we can make war on them.
I don’t see a problem. Vote Romney.
It’s comforting to know that the Mayans fashioned tin too. 122112
md
October 30th, 2012
4:27 pm
“Sorry folks but Romney isn’t going to win Ohio. No way – not when he is spreading lies about Jeep to the very people who work in those plants.”
The scary part are the folks like you Finn that hear the lies of the President, the VP AND Bill Clinton and do not challenge them……..
“Fiat is in “very detailed conversations” with its Chinese partner, Guangzhou Automobile Group Co. (2238), about making Jeeps in the world’s largest auto market, said Mike Manley, chief operating officer of Fiat and Chrysler in Asia. Chrysler hasn’t built Jeeps there since before Fiat took control in 2009.
“The volume opportunity for us is very significant,” Manley, who is also president of the Jeep brand, said in an interview at Chrysler’s Auburn Hills, Michigan, headquarters. “We’re reviewing the opportunities within existing capacity” as well as “should we be localizing the entire Jeep portfolio or some of the Jeep portfolio.” ”
So Finn……who exactly is doing the lying??
MarkV
October 30th, 2012
4:30 pm
Dusty @3:33 pm
“It’s BUSH here, BUSH there and BUSH everywhere.”
Why Dusty,
I would have thought you would be happy to hear so much about your favorite President.
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
4:31 pm
Liberal Pariah
Can’t wait to see how Aynie Sue connects the dots to government spending and increased long term consumer demand.
She can’t because that’s not what she said.
We measure growth in GDP. If consumption is down, and we cut spending, then you have no growth.
GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
4:34 pm
md-
according to politifact, it would be Romney
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/30/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-obama-chrysler-sold-italians-china-ame/
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
4:35 pm
MD-
Apparently they are building Jeeps in China, to sell in China because they don’t have the capacity
md
October 30th, 2012
4:45 pm
Notice one does not see the quote I just posted from Mike Manley on Politifact……seems they must have missed that wee bit of fact.
And the meat of the quote is “should we be localizing the entire Jeep portfolio or some of the Jeep portfolio.”
Last I checked, “entire” meant all of it………and it isn’t my quote, it came from the horses mouth.
And no, the 3 I mentioned above are the other end of the horse……….
MANGLER
October 30th, 2012
4:54 pm
I’ll cede to your point about managing vs. owning, but you’ll have to admit that in such a situation, the private companies “didn’t build that” – but are profiting from those who did.
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
4:59 pm
MD-
you mean this article:
Chrysler is strongly denying a report the company was considering moving all of its Jeep production to China.
The company has not been shy about wanting to build Jeeps in China, but Chrysler says it won’t quit building them in the United States.
“Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China,” Gualberto Ranieri, the company’s senior vice president for corporate communications, wrote Thursday in a blog posted on Chrysler’s Web site.
“It is simply reviewing the opportunities to return Jeep output to China for the world’s largest auto market.”
Bloomberg reported earlier this week that Fiat SpA, the majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, was in talks with its Chinese partner, Guangzhou Automobile Group Co., about making Jeeps in China. Jeeps were built in China from 1983-2009.
Bloomberg quoted Mike Manley, who is president and CEO of the Jeep brand as well as the chief operating officer of Fiat and Chrysler in Asia.
“The volume opportunity for us [in China] is very significant,” Mr. Manley was quoted as saying.
“We’re reviewing the opportunities within existing capacity” as well as “should we be localizing the entire Jeep portfolio or some of the Jeep portfolio.”
They clearly say” we are not quitting production in the United States.
tiredofIT
October 30th, 2012
5:02 pm
Expectations need to be set. We as a country need to decide just what kind of society we want for America. And, we need public campaign financing with a campaigning “time-frame”.
Some people are stupid
October 30th, 2012
5:03 pm
MD-
From the same Bloomber Article:
Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China.
WTF!!!
MarkV
October 30th, 2012
5:03 pm
Dusty @3:33 pm
“I look forward to happy days without all the scares in Washington, the foot in mouth, the forgotten Libya security, the soaring deficit, and the fancy vacations.”
Fancy vacations, in the same sentence with the soaring deficit and Libya security … But of course, we remember Obama’s India trip costing the taxpayers $200 million a day – according to Michele Bachmann…
Just Saying..
October 30th, 2012
5:11 pm
Well, anyone good enough for Thomas Friedman…
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
5:11 pm
If the federal flood insurance program were run like Obozocare, tens of thousands of storm victims would be out buying policies today to cover yesterday’s losses.
Obozo and his receptacles: Idiots.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
5:16 pm
Obama’s India trip costing the taxpayers $200 million a day – according to Michele Bachmann
—————————-
And Joe Biden claimed Paul Ryan voted for a $500 trillion tax cut.
Oh, but that’s different.
tiredofIT
October 30th, 2012
5:16 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American:
So you support those that don’t take personal responsibility for their actions and need assistants. Sounds socialistic to me.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
5:17 pm
tiredofIT: So you support those that don’t take personal responsibility for their actions and need assistants
————————
You’ll have to show me where I said that, since it doesn’t sound at all familiar.
Didn’t think so.
md
October 30th, 2012
5:19 pm
spas,
ok, and I have some land I’ll sell you in the Okefenokee when you need it.
If one thinks an Italian run company building Jeeps in the US AND China continues to build most of their product in the country that costs the most to produce it then I’ll reserve that land for you…….
Corps need to make profits to survive, where do you think they’ll be able to do that on a long term basis??
And if they start selling them to other countries in the world, where do you think they ramp up production??
Mr Manley let the cat out of the bag, of course they aren’t going to tell Detroit what they plan to do long term, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see the cost difference………shoot, it’s made Apple into the most profitable company on the planet, you really think other corps haven’t taken notice??
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 30th, 2012
5:32 pm
“I think Charles is a little too hard on Obama. Frankly, it’s huge progress that he didn’t blame this hurricane on a video,” Jonah Goldberg, fellow “Special Report” panelist, joked.
“Or on George Bush,” Krauthammer shot back.
They’re probably formulating that strategy now, you know how slow dummycrats are.
tiredofIT
October 30th, 2012
5:38 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American
October 30th, 2012
5:17 pm
tiredofIT: So you support those that don’t take personal responsibility for their actions and need assistants
————————
You’ll have to show me where I said that, since it doesn’t sound at all familiar.
Didn’t think so.
++
Obamacare requires everyone to contribute. Sounded like you where against this, therefore willing to support those with no skin in the game.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
5:39 pm
Obozocare allows people to buy insurance after they get sick. That was the point.
md
October 30th, 2012
6:07 pm
“Obamacare requires everyone to contribute.”
No it doesn’t, where in the world did you get that idea? It expands medicaid by the millions to be paid for by the rest of us that will be forced to pay for it………
Lil' Barry Bailout -Vote American
October 30th, 2012
6:12 pm
If you’re a liberal, David Walker is smarter than you and he’s endorsing Romney.
@@
October 30th, 2012
6:48 pm
Applying these criteria has led me to decide to vote for both Republicans and Democrats in the upcoming federal election races in my home state of Connecticut.
Did the same thing today in Clayton County. Tossing in the locals running, I voted an equal split D&R. It’s all Democrats all the time down here in Clayton County.
My first write-in for SHERIFF Garland Watkins. Here’s hopin’…..!!!!!!!!!!!!
Based on the above principles, I believe that Gov. Mitt Romney is the clear choice for president.
Me too, Mr. Walker…me too! It was the choice between a serious adult candidate and an immature wannabe (no racial slur intended). Obama needs to grow up.
Puck
October 30th, 2012
11:16 pm
Deficit chicken hawk is more appropriate …
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 31st, 2012
8:31 am
Libtards loved them some David Walker back when he was scolding Our President Bush for His relatively microscopic $300 billion deficits.
Ablazia
November 2nd, 2012
3:54 pm
So, the GOP Congressional and totally political tactics of blocking EVERYTHING that could have put more people back to work already should be rewarded by giving them a Republican to work with??? OH PLEASE! Reward ugly, petulant behavior? That sends a great message! How could anyone want to go backward to the Bush/Cheney policies (that will be on steroids with Romney) that destroyed the economy in the first place? Walker must have investments with Bain, just like a lot of the other people who support Romney and are chomping at the bit for the big tax returns they will ALL get and We, the people (the 99%), will pay for! As Grover Norquist has stated, “All we need for a President is someone with enough digits to sign ALL the Republican bills.” God help us all if Norquist gets what he wants……the marionette named Mitt!