Poll: Young voters, young parents back charter schools amendment
Mark Rountree of the locally based Landmark Communications has a new poll for Channel 2 Action News that shows two results you might have expected: Mitt Romney is almost certain to win Georgia, and the charter schools amendment is heading for a very close finish.
There are a number of interesting numbers within the poll, however, and the one I find most intriguing is this one about the charter schools amendment (as posted at Peach Pundit):
There is a stark difference in levels of support based on the age of the voter. Younger voters are strongly supportive of the Amendment (57-32% among those aged 18-35), while older voters slightly oppose the Amendment (40-41% in opposition among those over age 64).
People aged 18-35, of course, largely represent two groups: Those who are most recently graduated from high school, and those with young children either already in school or about to enter school. (For instance, this newly minted 34-year-old — my birthday was Saturday; and, yes, the Bulldogs gave me the only present I wanted — has a son who’s two autumns away from starting school and an infant.) It would also include teachers in the first half of their careers.
The poll doesn’t break down that result further — i.e., whether 18- to -35-year-old parents who aren’t teachers view the amendment differently than teachers of the same age, whether they’re parents or not. But I think it speaks volumes that this age group so strongly supports the idea that we need to try some new things when it comes to public education in this state.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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177 comments Add your comment
Greg
October 29th, 2012
2:49 pm
Young voters also backed Obama, so I am not sure I look to them for wisdom…
Greg
October 29th, 2012
2:51 pm
Also, I am 36 with an 8 year old and a 5 year old, so this amendment will have an impact on me.
ragnar danneskjold
October 29th, 2012
2:54 pm
I voted today, for the amendment. “Education” issues do not burn at my soul, and my vote was purely ideological. I simply rephrased the question to ask, “which vote increases options for the individual?” The evil of government is that it constrains choices, and gives the overlords power to make decisions we prefer to make ourselves.
There are elements of the question I dislike – voting “for” the amendment theoretically increases government by making it more useful through expansion. I rationalized my choice as “increasing power for one set of bureaucrats”, and “diminishing another set of bureaucrats,” effectively a wash.
ragnar danneskjold
October 29th, 2012
2:56 pm
Our host’s essay solicits demographics – I am older than dirt.
JDW
October 29th, 2012
3:07 pm
My guess is that most of them don’t really understand what they are voting for. I have had several discussions with people that think there will not be any new Charter Schools unless this amendment is passed and that is simply not true.
I can’t let this pass…
@Ragnar…”The evil of government is that it constrains choices, and gives the overlords power to make decisions we prefer to make ourselves.”
So you fought back by voting to create a seperate state run infrastructure to usurp the wishes of the locals…now how does that make sense.
sailfish
October 29th, 2012
3:09 pm
kyle
First off, your election chat with bookman was pretty good. At least you come off way more “nuanced” than some of your political partisan writings.
I maintain that charter schools are pie in the sky, but then I’m from that older demographic. We’ve been around awhile longer and it is significantly harder to bamboozle us; that’s basically what charters do – looks good on paper but doesn’t hold water upon execution.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 29th, 2012
3:10 pm
JDW cherry-picks again.
Go back to the previous statement by ragnar.
He wants options.
This is an appeals board – nothing more, nothing less. Hardly the term “infrastructure would be used for.
MANGLER
October 29th, 2012
3:24 pm
Can the GOPers on here please help explain how this isn’t corporate welfare at the expense of the tax payers? If the companies and outside interests want to open a charter school and charge a tuition to join it (much like private and perochial schools already do) then let them, on their own dime. You’re for choice? OK. Then choose to pay for your childs education yourself and not funnel the money from the rest of us. Choosing to send your child to a private school but making me pay for it is not, how would you say, fiscally conservative? Moral or ethical?
Public School Parent
October 29th, 2012
3:25 pm
Voting NO. This public school parent within the 18-34 demographic opposes Amendment #1. I’m voting no because this amendment won’t fix the problems ailing public education in Georgia and is likely to compound bloated government systems and stressed school budgets.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 29th, 2012
3:29 pm
Who does Mangler think pays for public school?
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
3:29 pm
MANGLER: Charter schools aren’t private schools. They’re public schools. What isn’t fiscally conservative is continuing to pour more and more money into a system that produces the same mediocre results.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
3:30 pm
sailfish @ 3:09: “looks good on paper but doesn’t hold water upon execution.”
Au contraire, mon ami.
Matz
October 29th, 2012
3:30 pm
If the amendment passes, then an appointed board gets to make decisions about how school taxes are spent in local jurisdictions, while the people who live in those jurisdictions have no say in those decisions whatsoever. BIG GOVERNMENT INTRUSION, but somehow, the tightie righties think big gubmint is a good idea whenever their crooked state officials use it to line the pockets of their corporate friends from out of state. Basically this would amount to publicly-funded private schools, since these “options” will certainly not be available to all the children who want them. Once again, profits over people: Brought to you by the the Georgia GOP and their billionaire sponsors.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
3:31 pm
JDW @ 3:07: “My guess is that most of them don’t really understand what they are voting for.”
I could say the same thing about many people who oppose it. See MANGLER @ 3:24, who indicates a belief that charter schools are private schools.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
3:36 pm
Matz @ 3:30: Almost completely false.
But especially this part: “Basically this would amount to publicly-funded private schools, since these “options” will certainly not be available to all the children who want them.”
These schools have to take all comers. If there are more applicants than slots, they’re filled by lottery. There is no favoritism.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
3:39 pm
This was a particularly clever phrasing, Matz: “an appointed board gets to make decisions about how school taxes are spent in local jurisdictions”
The way you’ve phrased it is technically true: The state board would be able to authorize money to be spent on schools in local jurisdictions. After all, where else would the schools be located? But the implication, that the state would be appropriating locally raised school taxes, is completely false.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 29th, 2012
3:39 pm
“Can the GOPers on here please help explain how this isn’t corporate welfare at the expense of the tax payers?”
Sure, as soon as you an explain why giving school tax dollars to private construction companies to build schools isn’t corporate welfare.
“You’re for choice? OK. Then choose to pay for your childs education yourself and not funnel the money from the rest of us.”
As Kyle pointed out, they’re still public schools. However, mangler, to your point, I’m all for choice as well. So if I choose to put my kids into a private school, at least I deserve what I was forced to pay in school taxes for the public school I’m no longer using to help pay for that private school, right?
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
3:40 pm
Public School Parent @ 3:25: Please explain how an unpaid commission of seven members, aided by the same DOE staff already working on charter applications, is “likely to compound bloated government systems.”
Matz
October 29th, 2012
3:44 pm
When schools morph into instruments of trade on the stock market, then it’s not really about the kids anymore. When taxpayers and parents no longer have a say in their local schools, it’s not about public education anymore.
INVESTMENT ADVICE ON CNBC: http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000109398
“It’s a high-demand product… The industry is growing about 12-13% a year…. high-growth, stable, recession-resistant BUSINESS…. it’s a PUBLIC PAYER, the state is the payer in this category….”
The Koch Bros don’t live in Georgia. Do you think they’ve been pumping money into this ad campaign because they suddenly give a good gosh darn about the poor, perpetually under-educated, disadvantaged children of this state? Yeah, right. Only a sucker would willingly vote to cede their own voice for somebody else’s stock values. Geezus.
Public School Parent
October 29th, 2012
3:48 pm
@ Kyle, because the operating budget of the old Charter Commission was around $1 million. And because Amendment supporters have identified no way to pay for the new schools and can’t or won’t fund local charter schools and traditional public schools which already exist.
Matz
October 29th, 2012
3:49 pm
“These schools have to take all comers.”
Uh-huh. Sure they will. Because the people you prefer to trust said so. Because their track record of honesty and full disclosure is spotless.
jd
October 29th, 2012
3:50 pm
The unconstitutional state commission did appropriate $1 million of Gwinnett County Funds when it chartered Ivy Prep — and hence the lawsuit that declared such action and the commission unconstitutional — so, tell us again how those local funds are not going to be hurt given the implementing legislation? And, are not state tax dollars, which the implementing legislation authorizes at higher per pupil amounts than K12, local dollars?
JDW
October 29th, 2012
3:51 pm
@Tiberius…”This is an appeals board – nothing more, nothing less. Hardly the term “infrastructure would be used for.”
Maybe in Tiberusville..back in the real universe John Barge says….
“I cannot support the creation of a new and costly state bureaucracy that takes away local control of schools and unnecessarily duplicates the good work already being done by local districts, the Georgia Department of Education, and the state Board of Education,”
Now what party does he represent…oh yeah I remember now…I suppose he is banished for “free thinking”
JDW
October 29th, 2012
3:54 pm
@Kyle…”I could say the same thing about many people who oppose it. ”
That is most likely true as well…arggghhhh…I guess you can’t peel thier heads back and pour knowledge in.
Of course you think its about choice and I think its about money and turf…
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 29th, 2012
3:54 pm
Kyle, there’s just no getting these anti-amendment people off of their faux talking points, no matter how much you may try.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
3:55 pm
Matz @ 3:44: For years, we’ve operated under the assumption that businesses want good public education so that they will have a good work force. Are you saying that’s suddenly not true?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 29th, 2012
3:57 pm
Barge was not only co-opted by the education lobby years ago, he also got slapped down really hard for campaigning on this issue with government funds.
You picked a poor example, JDW.
Ray
October 29th, 2012
3:57 pm
The pro-amendment folks, including Kyle, love to keep saying that charter schhols are public — not private. But if an out-of-state private charter school company comes in and starts a state approved charter school, using mostly public funds, are they really “public” or “private”? Is the Univ. of Phoenix “public” because it receives 90%+ of its funding from federal tax payer funded student loans? What’s the difference with a private charter company using public funds for its school? Seems to me that just because a private entity uses public funds doesn’t make it a “public” operation — it’s just a private operation funded by public money. Sort of like out-sourcing to private companies.
JDW
October 29th, 2012
4:06 pm
@Tiberius…”You picked a poor example”
No I picked the perfect example…you and your brethren just don’t like that the one Republican in the best place to evaluate the impact didn’t come down on your side…as for the construction lobby…my guess is they are all for it…got to build all those new state sponsored charters after all.
Matz
October 29th, 2012
4:07 pm
Mr. Wingfield @ 3:55,
I’m delighted to see you making a standard Democratic Party talking point: Good school systems attract businesses and good jobs. Let’s improve public education, which improves not only the future generations’ ability to compete in the world, but the caliber of businesses we attract to our communities, our local economies, and of course, our property values. I agree, and think this is a much more pragmatic approach than the, “I got MY kid in a decent school, to heck with your kid, because your kid is not my problem” talking point I hear so often from well-to-do Republicans.
That still does not explain why it would be a good idea for the citizens of Georgia to cede their right to a voice in the schools in their own communities because for-profit corporations are asking them to do so. Mama always said, “It doesn’t hurt to ask!” Mama also said, “Just because he asks, does not mean you have to say yes.”
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:08 pm
Public School Parent @ 3:48: “because the operating budget of the old Charter Commission was around $1 million”
Wrong. Check the state’s funding reports. The state administrative costs of running the commission never reached even $300,000 in a single year.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:08 pm
Matz @ 3:49: “Because the people you prefer to trust said so.”
No, because that’s already the way it works in practice. And there’s nothing in HB 797 that would change that.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:10 pm
jd @ 3:50: Because HB 797 does not replicate the old system. It supplements state-chartered schools’ funding from the general budget, not by reducing local systems’ allotments.
And no, state dollars raised by state taxes are not the same as local dollars raised by local taxes.
carlosgvv
October 29th, 2012
4:10 pm
Young Christian fundamentalist parents don’t want their children exposed to those liberal lies from hell, evolution and The Big Bang Theory. So, they want to send them to charter schools where the State won’t determine the courses taught but local school boards filled with fundamentalists will.
When it comes to being near or at the bottom in catagories that matter, Georgia is always there. And, it’s no accident. We work at it!!!!!
JDW
October 29th, 2012
4:10 pm
@Kyle…”The state administrative costs of running the commission never reached even $300,000 in a single year.”
The money is not in the commission its in operating all those new charter schools…it is just math. If you add 7 new schools a year it costs $430 million a year (according to Barge) sooner or later that money has to be diverted from somewhere.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:15 pm
JDW @ 3:51: Go read the law. Here’s a link. Read lines 154-185, which describe the kinds of applications the state commission could consider, and in which ways. It is an appeals board.
For the link-lazy, here are the key bits:
“…the petitioner shall concurrently submit such petition to the commission, to the local board of education in which the school is proposed to be located, and to each local school system from which the proposed school plans to enroll students.”
and
“The commission shall not act on a petition unless the local board of education in which the school is proposed to be located denies the petition…”
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:16 pm
JDW @ 3:54: No, I think it’s about choice and about money and turf. Didn’t you read yesterday’s column?
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:18 pm
Ray @ 3:57: In that case, there is no public sector — because every public agency purchases materials or services from some private company or another.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:19 pm
JDW @ 4:06: Charter schools almost never build their own buildings. They tend to rent existing space…usually not as shiny and new as what traditional public schools have.
Savannah Paul
October 29th, 2012
4:19 pm
I agree with Sailfish and I imagine that we are in the same age group. My children went to traditional public schools and did well. Now that they are out I have a large problem with the 18-35 age group thinking that it is no big deal for them to assume that I and probably 2 other taxpayers with grown children would have no problem seeing our tax dollars diverted to charter schools just so that they can have more choice when there is a pretty fair chance that their kids already go to well performing schools.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:22 pm
Matz @ 4:07: This is about improving public education. Because, for the umpteenth time, charter schools are public schools.
Why are you so wedded to the system and the institutions rather than the goal of providing a good education for the public?
Btw, there’s already profit in the public schools. It shows up as excessive central administration and bureaucracy. The “for-profit companies” you’re so worried about will, in most cases, contract with the charter school’s governing board to provide these administrative functions at a lower cost. That’s where they find their profit. Class sizes and classroom materials generally remain the same or are better.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:24 pm
carlosgvv @ 4:10: These are public monies, so the same restrictions about using public monies for religious purposes apply.
If the Georgia GOP wanted to introduce religious components to the curriculum, why wouldn’t it do so now? It already controls all the levers of power in this state. It doesn’t need a charter school commission to try to do that.
JDW
October 29th, 2012
4:25 pm
@Kyle…of course they have to be denied by the local board first…got to keep up appearances!
I did read the other column but you are on the wrong side of the money argument… the dollars are flowing from the Walton’s, K12 and other people with a profit motive.
On the turf part, it is the state that is horning in and in my opinion diluting the ability of local schools to take full advantage of the parents at their disposal. See that’s where all that effort that goes into creating unneeded new charters should go, into improving the local school…if that means converting it into a charter fine, but you and I both know we are going to see a rash of new additive schools if this thing passes.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:26 pm
JDW @ 4:10: No, Barge said it would cost $430M over five years, and he got to that number by assuming a linear growth in the number of charter schools that may or may not make sense. There wasn’t a long enough track record under the old commission for us to say what the per-year average should be: After all, you would expect a higher number in the first year or two due to pent-up demand, and then for that number to tail off as that demand is met.
At the same time, Barge is for restoring “full funding” under QBE to existing public schools. That would come out to about $6 BILLION over five years. In your words: “sooner or later that money has to be diverted from somewhere.” Where?
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:28 pm
Savannah Paul @ 4:19: I went to traditional public schools (in Dalton) and did well, too. No charter school would have popped up in Dalton at that time because the traditional public schools were so good. Look at the history of state-chartered schools: They pop up in places where the traditional public schools aren’t good.
Ray
October 29th, 2012
4:28 pm
Kyle @ 4:18: What? I think you’re being disingenuous. Just because a private company uses public funds doesn’t make it a public school. That’s the problem a lot of people have with this amendment — you’re taking public money and giving it to private companies to run schools. That sounds like you’re privatizing the public schools to a lot of people.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:29 pm
JDW @ 4:25: You are right about one thing: The state is trying to stop local schools from taking advantage of parents! And kids!
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:30 pm
Ray @ 4:28: OK, so if it isn’t about funding, then what makes a public school a public school now?
Darwin
October 29th, 2012
4:36 pm
“This is about improving public education. Because, for the umpteenth time, charter schools are public schools.” Answer: They are public schools run by private corporations who give campaign donations.
“Charter schools aren’t private schools. They’re public schools. What isn’t fiscally conservative is continuing to pour more and more money into a system that produces the same mediocre results.” Answer: There is no research that indicates that charter schools out perform traditional public schools. Once it becomes common knowledge, do you think we will eliminate charter schools for something else more competitive? Of course not. The politicians will continue to pour public tax payer money into private enterprise. Because they will receive the benefits of campaign money.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:38 pm
Darwin @ 4:36: “There is no research that indicates that charter schools out perform traditional public schools.”
False. Here’s the evidence.
carlosgvv
October 29th, 2012
4:50 pm
Kyle – 4:24
Because, some of the students would be from non-fundamentalist homes and the Republicans would get much unwanted publicity from outraged parents. On the other hand, a fundamentalist charter school would be filled with 100% of kids from right-wing Christian homes.
Class of '98
October 29th, 2012
4:51 pm
Kyle, I love you dude, but columns about Charter schools are about as exciting as a three day-old tuna fish sandwich.
BORRRRRRRINGGGGGGGG
JF McNamara
October 29th, 2012
4:52 pm
After the Republicans get this pushed through, I’m immediately buying stock in “for profit” schooling. Our kids will probably be collectively dumber, but at least I’ll make some coin off of it along with our state officials.
Think about it. We’re going to create a for profit institution that is going to make itself a necessity paid for with state funds. We’ve seen how for profit colleges take advantage of student loans, so we can expect the same in our state. Kindergarten is $250 a week, and that is also a point of reference on where we can expect pricing. We’re going to get gouged like we do with defense contractors and oil companies under the guise of “competition”.
It’s a no lose scenario for the companies, and we’re probably going to live to regret it.
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:54 pm
carlosgvv @ 4:50: I forgot; with you, there’s always another layer to the conspiracy.
Would you care to point out a single “fundamentalist charter school” anywhere in the entire country? Or do you think we have a particularly entrepreneurial kind of fundamentalism here in Georgia?
Kyle Wingfield
October 29th, 2012
4:57 pm
JF @ 4:52: There is a world of difference between for-profit colleges filled with kids who get federal loans without any kind of scrutiny as to how they’ll be used, and charter schools that contract with private companies to provide some of their administrative services. For more, see my 4:22.
But just out of curiosity: How do you think for-profit companies could be any worse at educating students in the parts of our state with the lowest-performing schools?
Matz
October 29th, 2012
5:08 pm
I’m sorry, but I’m not okay with the idea of charter schools “outperforming” public schools. ALL the schools should perform in such a way as to meet the educational needs of the communities in which they operate. Quality public education is what made “the American dream” possible for generations of Americans. Whether they were the children of immigrants who came here with nothing and spoke no English, or descendants of slaves dragged here against their will and held in both bondage and poverty, or just kids of hard-working, blue-collar parents who tried to do just a little bit better than mon & dad — and succeeded, the common factor is public education.
To sell it out for profit is to sell a piece of our collective national soul. We should invest more in education, not less, and ALL the schools should have the best we can provide, not have their budgets cut year after year, while teachers are berated and told to “do more with less.” For-profit segregation is not the answer.
JDW
October 29th, 2012
5:36 pm
@Kyle…”Where”
Exactly, given the Grover Norquist addled brains that dominate around here every dollar that goes to new unneeded charters is a dollar stolen from your local school.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 29th, 2012
5:40 pm
Matz, your dream of equality of output vs. equality of opportunity is just that – a dream.
“We should invest more in education, not less”
We have . It doesn’t work.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
5:43 pm
The young want school choice. No doubt about it, demographics will put an end to the government school monopoly, if nothing else does!
Ah, the irony
October 29th, 2012
5:46 pm
Well clearly, there ARE some problems with charter school oversight. And anyone who thinks Georgia would do any better a job than Florida is delusional.
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2012/10/29/failing-charter-finally-closes-and-principal-collects-a-cool-half-million-why-oversight-ought-to-be-important/?cxntfid=blogs_get_schooled_blog
JDW
October 29th, 2012
5:46 pm
@Kyle…”There is a world of difference between for-profit colleges filled with kids who get federal loans without any kind of scrutiny as to how they’ll be used, and charter schools that contract with private companies to provide some of their administrative services”
Really? Somebody better tell Florida…btw did you catch K12’s recent 10k? If this passes I might have to buy stock and profit from our mistake.
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/marketplacek12/2012/09/report_florida_investigating_k12_inc_for_using_non-certified_teachers.html
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
5:46 pm
To sell it out for profit is to sell a piece of our collective national soul.
————————
It was “sold out for profit” (along with other government functions) when government workers were allowed to unionize. Now, our schools aren’t places for learning, they’re jobs programs for teachers, administrators, and union bosses.
Hey Hey Hey
October 29th, 2012
5:51 pm
Lil Barry
GA has teacher’s unions?
JDW
October 29th, 2012
5:52 pm
@kyle…you don’t think the fact that the students, minority or not, that transferred to Ivy had the most active parents made any impact at all…do you…
You are dressing up the same truths…more involvement equals better performance. Of course now the local school has less involvement since they went to Ivy.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
5:55 pm
You’re aware that there are states other than Georgia, Hey?
Or did you go to public schools? You don’t seem to be quite capable of thinking outside your little bubble.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
5:56 pm
Typical libtard thinking–sacrifice your child’s education so that the takers’ kids won’t suffer.
Hey Hey Hey
October 29th, 2012
5:57 pm
Lil Barry
Is the article about the state of the GA or other states?
If you have ADD and can not concentrate on the subject at hand, please seek help.
No need to be a smart behind and act like some alpha……… wannabe.
Beta Barry
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
6:03 pm
Regardless of the article’s topic, my post was about education in general.
And Georgia’s “professional associations” are de facto unions, with the same destructive effects as the NEA and AFT. They’re about maintaining their members outsized pay and gold-plated benefits packages and the kids and taxpayers be damned.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 29th, 2012
6:07 pm
“Is the article about the state of the GA or other states?”
Doesn’t matter. You don’t exclude data from your analysis just because it comes from other states.
Aquagirl
October 29th, 2012
6:18 pm
I’m sorry, but I’m not okay with the idea of charter schools “outperforming” public schools. ALL the schools should perform in such a way as to meet the educational needs of the communities in which they operate.
I think Kyle is right, those 18 to 35 year olds are concerned about building their children a little life raft and screw the other kids left behind in under performing schools.
Of course if you oppose Kyle’s favored solution you’re not for the chilllldren. Watching fake conservatives call for more money and more big government while covering their @$$es with the “you hate children!” card is beyond gross.
If you’re going to abandon logic and reason at least admit you’re being a loon. Most people are extremely emotionally invested in their children and will bend, break, and trample rules if they think something important is at stake. That’s normal and nothing to be ashamed of, people who don’t prioritize their own children above all else are nuts. The problem here is the Kyles of the world pretending their motivation is lofty and sensible. It’s not. It’s about their fears for THEIR child, period. Point out this might screw over other kids and you’ll get endless harrumphing and all sorts of excuses.
People who vote with their fee-fees are dangerous. There’s plenty of well-deserved derision at the college age hopey-changy voters four years ago but our fake conservatives are doing the very same thing. And most of them don’t even have the excuse they’re young and stupid. If you’re a 50 year old voting for this bundle of emotional idiocy you’re just plain gullible.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
6:24 pm
Aren’t libtard loons supposed to be for “choice” and “access”?
Not when it might affect union dues collections, apparently.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
6:25 pm
ALL the schools should perform in such a way as to meet the educational needs of the communities in which they operate.
——————–
And yet, they don’t. Money isn’t the issue–we spend more per student than many other countries that are kicking our butt. The issue is the union terrorists running the schools for their own profit.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 29th, 2012
6:32 pm
Aquagirl, just pointing out that your 6:18 was nothing but invective and insults, with no fact-based objections at all.
Are you sure you’re not AmVet?
Randy Ayn
October 29th, 2012
6:35 pm
Why should we pour more money into public schools, when we can pour more money into public charter schools and have, where big companies can siphon off tax dollars? It’s just a shame they won’t share their secret to providing a superior education so that all schools could use it. It’s also a shame that their test scores, when controlled for selecting students, don’t show that they do a better job.; but, at least some connected people might get some high paying jobs out of the deal (no Deal pun intended).
cc
October 29th, 2012
6:45 pm
Isn’t it time for Mary Elizabeth to chime in?
adam smith's invisible hand
October 29th, 2012
6:51 pm
Well, of course I’m sure the for-profit Edison Learning Inc., the for-profit National Heritage Acadamies, the for-profit Charter Schools USA and the massive on-line education company, K12 – who are the major supporters of this amendment – have our childrens’ best interest at heart. It’s not about the $. It’s just that they’re so public spirited.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
6:59 pm
If the for-profits can get better results for the same or less spending per pupil, what’s the argument against them?
And if they don’t, they can be fired and a better-performing competitor brought in.
Don’t fear change.
Hillbilly D
October 29th, 2012
7:00 pm
I’m an old fart and I get to vote too, same as the youngster.
yuzeyurbrane
October 29th, 2012
7:02 pm
Kyle, are you the press flack for the pro-Amendment group? And why? I am pleased you disclosed your conflict of interest—namely, you have a young one who will be going to school in a couple of years. Let me guess–you can’t afford private school tuition on your grand AJC salary but you want the public to pay for charter school for your child? All parents want that private school advantage for their children so I am not surprised at your poll numbers although I think most we will be disappointed with what they get. And why didn’t you mention huge $1 million plus most recent fundraising bonanza for pro-Amendment groups, mostly from out of state for-profit education industry companies in your last article against anti-Amendment fundraising? Are you selling your usual pro-good govt. views for self-interest? Tell me it isn’t so Joe.
rwcole
October 29th, 2012
7:26 pm
Kyle is for smaller, less intrusive government that gives more power to the people, except for when he isn’t. Typical modern conservatism.
Hey Hey Hey
October 29th, 2012
7:40 pm
“Doesn’t matter. You don’t exclude data from your analysis just because it comes from other states.”
http://www.peachpundit.com/2012/10/26/new-polling-results-on-presidential-race-and-charter-schools/
What analysis do you speak of? The poll was done in GA and it was relating to the charter amendment here in GA.
So yes, one would exclude data from other states in regards to the article Kyle has posted and the poll that was taken.
Thanks for your response.
Hey Hey Hey
October 29th, 2012
7:41 pm
“And Georgia’s “professional associations” are de facto unions, with the same destructive effects as the NEA and AFT.”
Wrong. But nice try.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 29th, 2012
7:44 pm
The Irish singer Bono and co-founder of ONE, a campaigning group that fights poverty and disease in Africa, said it had been “a humbling thing for me” to realize the importance of capitalism and entrepreneurialism in philanthropy, particularly as someone who “got into this as a righteous anger activist with all the cliches.”
And here’s to hoping a few more of the clueless will see the light.
td
October 29th, 2012
7:47 pm
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 29th, 2012
3:10 pm
“This is an appeals board – nothing more, nothing less. Hardly the term “infrastructure would be used for.”
Sorry my friend but you are dead wrong with this statement. This commission on its own accord can set up state sponsored charter schools over district lines. Please go read the enabling legislation passed last Jan.
mike
October 29th, 2012
7:49 pm
If you liked T-SPLOST, you’ll love Charter Schools. If you want to hand state crony miscreants a giant money machine, you’ll love Charter Schools. If you want decisions about your child’s education made by a state bureaucrat, instead of your local school board, you’ll love Charter Schools. If you want your property taxes or your rent to go up to cover the money that will be diverted to private Christian schools for the rich, then you’ll love Charter Schools. If you want to create an even greater boondoggle than T-SLOST, then your love Charter Schools. Really, Kyle, you have beat this subject to death. BTW, can you guess which way I’m going to vote on this issue? I thought so.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 29th, 2012
7:51 pm
Economist Timur Kuran coined the term to explain why totalitarian regimes usually collapse suddenly. A preference cascade happens when people discover millions of others share their doubts about the Great Leader. Massive media bias has made the term applicable here, Mr. Reynolds said. The Barack Obama that Americans saw in the debates bears little resemblance to the heroic figure portrayed by the news media.
But he’ll still have his morons.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
8:03 pm
rwcole: Kyle is for smaller, less intrusive government that gives more power to the people, except for when he isn’t
———————————–
Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds, rwcole. Where’s that famous libtard appreciation for nuance?
mark.
October 29th, 2012
8:12 pm
I dont think private industry can fix the societial ills. Nor can public education. If they are going to take students with special needs, same percentage of minorities as the local zip code schools, then I am all for it. But the $80000/year student is not what the charter companies have in mind. But if they want mine money, they get them too. Good luck charter school usa, get some good special ed laws, you get them too!!
cc
October 29th, 2012
8:16 pm
“you’ll love Charter Schools.”
I’m sure that I will, and have already voted YES on Amendment 1.
“If you want decisions about your child’s education made by a state bureaucrat, instead of your local school board”
“a state bureaucrat”? Only one person? I don’t think that is the case. Local school boards are notorious for following the lead of the government indoctrination centers’ administrators and teachers. Many of them become merely an extension of that government entity, which partially explains why these government indoctrination centers do such a miserable job for the most part.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
8:18 pm
Yes, let us celebrate the bringing down of the brightest and hardest working by the “special ed” student, most of which are merely poorly behaved punks.
Archibald Leach
October 29th, 2012
8:19 pm
Well, this young voter will be voting NO to amendment 1. The local communities already have a way to create charter schools. If you dont like what your local school board is doing, then vote them out. Georgia is one of the most corrupt states in America. We dont need another bureaucracy
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
8:23 pm
Arch, you may be young, but your thinking is old and outdated.
JamVet
October 29th, 2012
8:33 pm
Kyle, I applaud your tepid attempts at selling this claptrap to the Republirubes here, but my goodness man, look at these people that make up your “constituency” here in Georgia.
It is hopeless.
And though the morons in Cobb were forced to take those gawdawful embarrassing stickers out of those public school science books, they are still fighting the Scope Monkey Trial here for gawdsakes!
Darwin is a nobody and man-induced climate change is a vast liberal conspiracy that only you fake conservatives and the North Koreans have right.
Truly hopeless…
bluecoat
October 29th, 2012
8:33 pm
Private run correctional/prisons/jails.Why not schools?
mike
October 29th, 2012
8:37 pm
bluecoat: “Why not schools?”
Children aren’t prisoners. Neither are their parents.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
8:37 pm
Who’s running Apple? The government?
@@
October 29th, 2012
8:38 pm
I hope, after the election, they break it down by counties. I’d be curious to see which way Clayton County’s voters go.`
Cutty
October 29th, 2012
8:39 pm
Young voters, young parents….. Just the type of voters republicans dislike. But when you need ‘em for this scam………
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 29th, 2012
8:39 pm
Clayton County must be about 80% “special ed”.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 29th, 2012
8:41 pm
“Children aren’t prisoners. Neither are their parents.”
Yes they are. They’re trapped in a failed public education system that keeps getting worse.
Hillbilly D
October 29th, 2012
8:42 pm
@@
They usually break all that stuff down on the Secretary of State website. You can watch the returns on election night.
Dusty
October 29th, 2012
8:42 pm
This Charter School Agreement reminds me of the great TSPLOST discussion. It droned on forever but still was never absolutely clear to everyone. A new board for approval of a new type of school by a non-paying group and it was going to cost nothing more than usual but it was a public school called a Charter School advised by basicly the same government people plus one or something?? Huh?
Sorry, but I don’ t like to vote for a pig-in-a-poke plan. Too many squeals in this one.
mike
October 29th, 2012
8:43 pm
OK, let me explain this REAL SLOW so you can all get it. When you privatize ANYTHING, there has to be a profit. Now, where does that profit come from? More often than not, it comes from workers salaries. In the case of public schools, that profit has to come from teachers’ salaries. Therefore, the private school owners will, of course, seek to hire the lowest priced teachers they can find. Teachers will leave the system for other jobs, turnover will increase. Hey, your school can be a McEducation, too! Where the “teachers” are dispensable. Not permanent. Temporary. Think about it!
cc
October 29th, 2012
8:43 pm
Exactly right, Tib . . .
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 29th, 2012
8:56 pm
“Therefore, the private school owners will, of course, seek to hire the lowest priced teachers they can find. Teachers will leave the system for other jobs, turnover will increase.”
OK, let me explain this REAL SLOW to mike, who doesn’t know beans about the free market system.
Anybody who hires the “lowest priced teachers” will not succeed at what they are doing, and the parents and children will go elsewhere. Charter schools cannot make money if they don’t have students in the seats, bubba.
It’s clear whatever teachers you had in economics and business failed at their task. Too bad you didn’t have the choice to go to a school were they excelled at something.
iggy
October 29th, 2012
9:03 pm
“Then choose to pay for your childs education yourself and not funnel the money from the rest of us”
Sorry…its time to bankrupt the public school system, its good ole boy mentality and the tsunami of stupidty that runs rampant in turn for Charter schools.
Sorry…You lose!!
bluecoat
October 29th, 2012
9:08 pm
Well nothing ain’t for nothing,and nothing ain’t free.Let the locals remain in control.May start at no compensation for the appointed members,but how long will that last?Next they will be going to China to observe.Guess who pays their expense.
Aynie Sue
October 29th, 2012
9:09 pm
Young people are so naive and gullible!
mike
October 29th, 2012
9:15 pm
“The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) Schools and Staffing Survey data from 2003-04 suggest that, compared to traditional school teachers, charter school teachers are far more likely to leave the profession or transfer to a different school. According to Teacher Turnover in Charter Schools, a 2010 research brief from the National Center on School Choice at Vanderbilt University, attrition in charter schools results from charter schools’ tendency to employ young, uncertified, and part-time teachers, which are categories of teachers who leave all schools at higher rates. Charter school teachers also tend to be dissatisfied with their workplaces (e.g., working hours, salaries, and administrator support).”
http://www.charterschoolcenter.org/newsletter/charter-schools-face-challenge-recruiting-top-teachers
Say it ain’t so!
I WIN! I WIN! I WIN!
Doing my Tiberius imitation!
mike
October 29th, 2012
9:18 pm
Can you say McEducation? How about McSchool? How about McTeacher? OK, how about part-time — as in no benefits? I knew that you could!
mike
October 29th, 2012
9:19 pm
It’s a racket and you’re about to be duped! If you let them!
Dusty
October 29th, 2012
9:25 pm
I wonder if it makes any difference to admissions officers at universities and colleges as to where your scholastic average comes from? Are SAT scores their only guide? Have those places of higher education made any comments on this Charter School vote? Seems like they might have some ideas to add.
Or does it really matter any more? Just get your HOPE sdcholarship, get remedial classes the first year and get some kind of degree in five years.Then go out into the world with your degree in the Socialization Habits of the Dodo bird. That and your enormous school debt will get you a really really good job. Do Charter Schools help?
mike
October 29th, 2012
9:27 pm
Like I said before, the profit gets “squeezed” out of the teachers. Do you really want “part-time,” disposable, uncertified teachers who don’t really care about their jobs teaching your children. Do you want teachers who take their Charter School jobs until something better comes along? Or do you really care?
mike
October 29th, 2012
9:32 pm
I’m going to watch the game. What a dumb topic and an even dumber idea! Dumb and dumber! Yeah, that’s it! And that’s what you’ll get with the idiotic Charter School amendment.
td
October 29th, 2012
9:37 pm
Please forgive me for changing topics but this must get out to the public:
This is all one needs to know about the massacre of American’s and the response from Obama:
Last night on Geraldo at Large, Charles Woods, the father of murdered Benghazi SEAL Tyrone Woods, sent this message to Barack Obama:
“It’s better to die a hero than live a coward.”
Hillbilly D
October 29th, 2012
9:41 pm
I wonder if it makes any difference to admissions officers at universities and colleges as to where your scholastic average comes from?
I think as long as it keeps the students (i.e. the $$$) rolling in, they couldn’t care less.
Dusty
October 29th, 2012
9:44 pm
Well, after this evening of fun and frivolity, I shall depart with these wishes. May your home be warm and dry, your front yard without watery waves, and your child the brightest one on the block G’nite..
Dusty
October 29th, 2012
9:51 pm
G’nite HillBilly.
I hope you stay warm as toast in them thar hills. But if it is the 50’s in Atlanta, must be mighty cold in the mountains.
Hillbilly D
October 29th, 2012
9:54 pm
Dusty
Thank you. It’s a might airy up here tonight.
bluecoat
October 29th, 2012
10:09 pm
Writing about the repatriation of her son’s body, Cheryl Croft Bennett said: ‘The entire afternoon was overpowering and unreal.
‘Little did I know that I would find myself in a reception room being comforted, hugged, and, yes, even kissed by the President of the United States. Along with the President, there was Vice-President Joe Biden, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, and General and Mrs Colin Powell.
‘They were all wonderful. They held my hand, offered condolences, gave warm hugs, and were extremely compassionate and genuinely sad for my loss, as I fought back tears and tried to project an image of strength to honor my SEAL son.’
td
October 29th, 2012
10:14 pm
**GALLUP SHOCK** Romney Up 52-45% Among Early Voters
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/29/Gallup-Shock-Romney-Up-7-with-early-voters
iggy
October 29th, 2012
10:50 pm
These dumb teachers are just as much a problem as the dumb parents, dumb administators and dumb kids. Its time to strip these dumb-bells of their overinflated salarys and egos.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 29th, 2012
11:15 pm
Poor mike.
He just can’t take a discussion to the next level of cause and effect.
Poor, simple, mike.
crankee-yankee
October 29th, 2012
11:15 pm
The problem with the younger demographic is that they have not yet developed a reliable bullsh*t filter. They have not yet begun to think for themselves and for the most part will believe what they hear from purported authority type figures.
cc
October 30th, 2012
6:38 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEhvF8b8Mrg
cc
October 30th, 2012
7:10 am
td@10:14 pm:
Thanks for posting the link. If that proves true, it will confirm what I have thought all along: Obama is on a fast-track for White House departure!
Lil' Barry Bailout -Vote American
October 30th, 2012
7:11 am
Aynie Sue: Young people are so naive and gullible!
———-
They bought “Hope and Change”, didn’t they?
Eddie Hall
October 30th, 2012
8:01 am
@Kyle, while the STATE may not take local money to run these schools, if they decrease state money, where do you think the lost money will come from? LOCAL PROPERTY taxes. That is even if you don’t have a charter within 100 miles!
Kyle have you bothered to look at the many systems that do work? There are other answers to the problems with schools, this is not it! VOTE NO!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 30th, 2012
8:32 am
“Kyle have you bothered to look at the many systems that do work?”
With Georgia being ranked in the mid to low 40’s in states regarding education, there cannot be “many” systems that do work.
tiredofIT
October 30th, 2012
8:32 am
What isn’t fiscally conservative is continuing to pour more and more money into a system that produces the same mediocre results.
Of course the students/family’s have no responsibility.
Pandora
October 30th, 2012
8:44 am
I didn’t back Charter Schools because the Public Schools System in the State of Georgia is suffering enough. Why should MY tax dollars go towards a Charter School? It’s a Public School. I think that either all of the schools in Georgia should be either Public or Charter. My vote was NO. That money need to be filtered back into Gerogias’ public schools for much needed supplies. Like updated Civics books for high school students. Why are they still showing President Clinton as President in 2012? EXACTLY…I already voted and my vote was NO.
Pandora
October 30th, 2012
8:47 am
cc you are DEAD WRONG!!! President Obama WILL be re-elected. What is Romneys’ plan? I guarantee you that whatever plan he has it will be totally different today than it was yesterday. Romney is a fool and so are you…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
8:51 am
Thanks Mitt!
The fatal meningitis epidemic sweeping the United States can now be traced to the failure of then-Gov. Mitt Romney to adequately regulate the Massachusetts pharmaceutical company that is being blamed for the deaths.
At least 344 people in 18 states have been infected by the growing public health crisis and 25 have died so far.
But the epidemic may also play a role in the presidential campaign, now that state records reveal that a Massachusetts regulatory agency found that the New England Compounding Co., the pharmaceutical company tied to the epidemic, repeatedly failed to meet accepted standards in 2004 — but a reprimand was withdrawn by the Romney administration in apparent deference to the company’s business interests.
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/30/romneys_lax_regulation_fueled_meningitis_outbreak/
Mike
October 30th, 2012
8:55 am
Kyle is responding more to this topic than he usually does…must be important to him.
Kyle, I think this is a lost effort. Local school board members are for the most part, telling their constituents to vote “NO” on this. Mine did.
iggy
October 30th, 2012
9:01 am
“The fatal meningitis epidemic sweeping the United States can now be traced to the failure of then-Gov. Mitt Romney”
Obvious desparation…
philstembridge
October 30th, 2012
9:03 am
Georgia has faling schools and many people want more of the same .Why not try for charters.Also more money will have zero effect.The problem is parents who are not involved in their children’s education.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
9:08 am
At least 344 people in 18 states have been infected by the growing public health crisis and 25 have died so far.
————-
On Obozo’s watch.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
9:09 am
Preachers are telling their congregations to vote “No”.
Baby Jesus don’t need no unelected board of review.
Aquagirl
October 30th, 2012
9:28 am
Kyle is responding more to this topic than he usually does…must be important to him.
I don’t think that’s up for debate, he has two young kids and is suggesting that’s why the 18-35 crowd is for this measure. Because nothing says conservatism like small government, less taxes, local control, and….HEY I HAVE A PROBLEM, WHERE IS THE GOVERNMENT!?!?!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 30th, 2012
9:33 am
To give you good indication of how ate up your typical dummycrat is, Bain Capital created more jobs than obozo ever has.
What would you libs do without your little boogeymen?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
9:40 am
Romney is still the 2-1 underdog with the gamblers.
http://www.oddschecker.com/specials/politics-and-election/us-presidential-election/winner
mwuahahahahaha
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
9:44 am
I’ve had Zeppelin’s “When the Levee Breaks” in my head all morning.
I wonder why?
Gail
October 30th, 2012
9:46 am
Kyle, why do you think that because the funding for charter schools will supposedly come from the “general fund” that it’s not taking money from the existing public schools? Ever heard “six of one, half dozen of the other?” The state has its expected revenues. Then it allocates money to each department. The DOE gets a set amount. If the State then funds the Charter schools as a separate dept do you really think that they aren’t just going to reduce the amount given to the
DOE? And as far as the commission being unpaid – the amendment doesn’t state that, therefore that is at the whim of the legislature and next year it can be a paid commission..
Dusty
October 30th, 2012
10:10 am
Thank you, Finn, for a laughable moment this morning. Sooooo
Romney is responsible for meningitis. Well, meningitis is no joke but blaming it on Romney is absolutely hilarious. Why stop there?
Romney is responsible for Athlete’s Foot. He once went barefoot.
Romney is responsible for colds & fever. He once sneezed without a hankie!
Romney is responsible for gastro-intestinal upsets. He once ate chili for lunch.
Romney is responsible for dandruff. He’s not bald so there!!
See what I mean, Finn? Anything for a laugh, huh? R U bald by any chance?
One perspective....
October 30th, 2012
10:26 am
JDW says: I have had several discussions with people that think there will not be any new Charter Schools unless this amendment is passed and that is simply not true.
Really? Which school systems, without any kind of state involvement, are willing to allow a school that will compete with the traditional public school? Previously, the state (unconstitutionally) was involved with establishing charters. The local school system had a choice: allow the charter or the state may get involved and force one. So, trying to maintain control, they reluctantly allowed charters to be established. Without that threat of state intervention, many charters (such as the one at Johns Creek) would not have been established.
If this amendment does not pass, there is a very high probability that no new charter schools will be established. While it is true that failure of this amendment does not prohibit charter schools, there sufficient disincentives (loss of political power and increased competition) such that no school system will allow one.
Dusty
October 30th, 2012
10:26 am
Looks like Finn is not answering questions this morning. I will have to take a poll (just like Kyle)!!
One answer only for each blogger.
QUESTION #1…Is Finn bald?_______________<—(Yes or no)
QUESTION
Darwin
October 30th, 2012
10:29 am
Darwin @ 4:36: “There is no research that indicates that charter schools out perform traditional public schools.”
False. Here’s the evidence.
Kyle – Right back at you slick. http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/15196/charter-schools-fail-on-promise-to-outperform-public-schools
Dusty
October 30th, 2012
10:38 am
Where oh where has my last post gone? Oh where oh where can it be???
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
10:53 am
Darwin @ 10:29: My evidence is newer and specific to our state. If relying on older data from elsewhere makes you feel better, then suit yourself.
lou
October 30th, 2012
10:53 am
I’m with Matz, and I voted against the amendment.
The wording on this was so deceptive, that it will probably confuse most people and they will vote for it. But that was the intention of the wording, wasn’t it?
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 30th, 2012
10:53 am
Last time I checked, it was the FDA that had responsibility for ensuring the safety of pharmaceuticals, not the governor of a state, and in particular not the governor of a state EIGHT YEARS AGO.
You America-hating leftists are pathetic.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
10:54 am
Gail @ 9:46: If the state builds a prison or road, is it “taking money from the existing public schools”? I guess the state is “taking money from the existing public schools” if it spends less than 100 percent of its revenues on education. After all, the one thing we can count on the educational establishment saying is that what we’re spending isn’t enough.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
10:55 am
Aquagirl @ 9:28: Buckhead’s public schools tend to be pretty good. And the people who don’t want to send their kids to those schools generally can afford other choices, which is why so many private schools are in Buckhead. So I seriously doubt we’ll see a charter school pop up anywhere close to my family.
md
October 30th, 2012
10:57 am
“The wording on this was so deceptive, that it will probably confuse most people and they will vote for it. But that was the intention of the wording, wasn’t it?”
It’s just attorneys/politicians being themselves……..they’ve created this alternate language on purpose for the intent of job security…….the entire legal system is designed to confuse the masses in order to benefit the few………..and it can’t be changed without the approval of the one’s that designed it……..talking about a racket……….
cc
October 30th, 2012
10:58 am
Billboard sign says:
WE built it.
You broke it.
We’ll fix it.
You’re fired!
cc
October 30th, 2012
11:01 am
Kyle:
That is the truth, and it would be the truth if their money was doubled today!
cc
October 30th, 2012
11:03 am
Kyle:
Sorry for not quoting but I was referencing this statement by you:
“After all, the one thing we can count on the educational establishment saying is that what we’re spending isn’t enough.”
Hillbilly D
October 30th, 2012
11:07 am
the entire legal system is designed to confuse the masses in order to benefit the few………..and it can’t be changed without the approval of the one’s that designed it……..talking about a racket……….
Amen to that. There’s a good living in whereas’s and wheretofore’s.
Aquagirl
October 30th, 2012
11:12 am
I seriously doubt we’ll see a charter school pop up anywhere close to my family.
I didn’t mean to imply you saw direct personal benefit if this amendment passes, you’re not THAT crass.
But I think you’re affected by the feeling “what if those were my kids?” Whether it’s the best thing to do or a good idea takes a back seat to the OMG visceral panic factor to do something, anything, right now.
Gail
October 30th, 2012
11:12 am
I don’t expect 100% of funds to be spent on education. And I understand that money given could probably be used more efficiently. But yes, you could say that building a prison or road does take funds from “the existing public schools” if the DOE’s allocation % is reduced to fund said prison or road
And that’s what will happen if this passes. The % of funds allocated to the DOE will go down.
Dusty
October 30th, 2012
11:16 am
Come on, folks. This is beginning to get as dull as dishwater. I have done the Eager Beaver Early voting and that’s it!! Your best link ever won’t change it.
Besides, I’m so sad. No more mutiny on the Bounty. She sank in the storm and I think the Captain went with her. Such a beautiful ship.
Dusty
October 30th, 2012
11:20 am
Aquagirl,
Quit blowing bubbles. “Crass” is YOUR middle name.
md
October 30th, 2012
11:23 am
“Besides, I’m so sad. No more mutiny on the Bounty. She sank in the storm and I think the Captain went with her. Such a beautiful ship.”
I was just aboard that ship this summer and talked with many of the crew…….such a sad ending for a beautiful boat…………
catlady
October 30th, 2012
11:26 am
Kyle, it isn’t as simple as having a lottery to show that the school is open to everyone. If the school offers no transportation, they are already selectinga special group. If the school offers no sped classes, let’s say, for visua lly impaired kids, or BD kids then they cannot go there–selection/discrimination. If a school requires parental effort, and that parent knows they are not going to be able to meet that requirement, so they do not apply, that is selection/discrimination. There are all kinds of ways, from the very beginning, that children attending many charter schools are a “special group.” When students are randomly selected and sent to charter schools, which have to provide and put up with all that the public schools do, THEN you can make that argument.
Aquagirl
October 30th, 2012
11:27 am
“Crass” is YOUR middle name.
I resent that….I spent years learning to drink tea with my pinkie sticking out.
That %$!^ is totally hard &*!% work.
Dusty
October 30th, 2012
11:33 am
md
As Keats said in Endymion, “A thing of beauty is a joy forever.”. We shall always enjoy the memories and pictures of the Bounty. She was a “thing of beauty”.
Your special memories will always be special. I wish that I had been able to visit the decks of the Bounty..
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
11:33 am
Aquagirl @ 11:12: Glad to know you don’t think THAT lowly of me…
What moves me about this issue is the fact that an educated public is an important goal to which we already devote a lot of money, and yet the results have been poor. And the people who have gotten the worst of it live in the very same communities where charter schools tend to open — because, even if they haven’t been able to change the situation in their traditional public schools, they recognize the problem they face and the opportunity of having another option. This amendment won’t fix everything, not by a long shot. But it promises to be enough of a net positive change that I think we’d be foolish to pass it up.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
11:35 am
Gail @ 11:12: “But yes, you could say that building a prison or road does take funds from “the existing public schools” if the DOE’s allocation % is reduced to fund said prison or road”
You’re either missing or confirming my point. Who decides what “the DOE’s allocation %” is supposed to be? Who’s to say it would have been higher if the state didn’t spend this money on charter schools? Why wouldn’t it be just as correct to say that charter-school spending is taking away from “the DOT’s allocation %”?
Dusty
October 30th, 2012
11:40 am
AquaGirl
You get the Anti-Crass Pinkie Award for trying. Salute! The porcelain teacup awaits you.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 30th, 2012
11:45 am
Romney now flips on FEMA – he wants to keep it.
Another day in Romneyland.
Gail
October 30th, 2012
11:46 am
You could say that charter school spending is taking from “the DOT allocation %” That’s my point. The money to fund the charter schools is taking funding from some other state entity whether you say it’s the DOT, DOE, EPD or Office of the Governor (ha!). It has to come from somewhere and the proponents of this amendment act like it is not taking funding from any other department.. We may just have to, as they say, agree to disagree on this.
Dusty
October 30th, 2012
11:49 am
PS….Aquagirl…shhhhhh
Don’t believe a word that Kyle says. He’s MAD at you!! He’s just being nice. You know. He’s got MANNERS!! Now don’t insult his Charter School House. shhhhh
md
October 30th, 2012
12:02 pm
“Romney now flips on FEMA – he wants to keep it.”
Can’t flip it if he never said it in the first place………I’ve read his response and he never said “get rid of fema”……but that won’t stop folks like you from preforming your mental gymnastics………
catlady
October 30th, 2012
12:31 pm
Kyle: The DOE is supposed to get the QBE allotment, as per the formula put into law. THAT”S who says how much public ed is supposed to get.
Darwin
October 30th, 2012
12:55 pm
Bottom line is there are too many students to privatize our educational system. All you’re doing is cutting some corporations into the action and giving them tax dollars. If our educational system is failing our kids so badly, does anyone ever think of looking at the kids? I know someone who works at a charter school. There are kids from dysfunctional homes who act up, and spoiled kids who act up at school. All the time. Smart kids who want to learn do fine at our non charter public schools. I went to college with these kids and I know. People who support this amendment are just buying into the same old right wing theme – government’s bad for everything (except I guess for wars).
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
12:59 pm
catlady @ 11:26: Students aren’t “randomly selected” for traditional public schools, either, so I fail to see your point. Everyone “self-selects” to some degree by choosing where to live — because, in any school system with more than one of any level of school (elementary, middle, high), students are assigned by geography. And that almost always means they’re assigned in large part by income. If some of the ones assigned by geography/income want to go to a charter school instead, I’m not going to be the one standing in their way.
Kyle Wingfield
October 30th, 2012
1:05 pm
Darwin @ 12:55: ” All you’re doing is cutting some corporations into the action and giving them tax dollars.”
So you think we should have a Department of Construction to provide the buildings state agencies need? I guess we’ll need Departments of Concrete, Steel, Wood and Masonry to provide the materials. And a Department of Office Supplies to manufacture and distribute paper, pens and such. Wouldn’t want any tax dollars going to corporations for providing services and materials to the public sector.
“Smart kids who want to learn do fine at our non charter public schools.”
Do you honestly believe this is true universally, or even in a majority of our public schools? If so, how are Georgia’s schools constantly mired toward the bottom of national rankings?
Look, I attended traditional public schools and got a fine education. My experience does not mean all “smart kids” will “do fine” at ALL of our traditional public schools. (Btw, does your “I went to college with these kids” suggest your parents lacked your confidence in the local public schools and sent you elsewhere? Or am I reading too much into your comment?)