Charter school parents explain why we need Amendment One
“How can I in good conscience send my child to a school that didn’t even cheat right?”
The question from Shelby McDonald has surely been asked by many an Atlanta parent since rampant cheating on standardized tests was uncovered in the city’s public schools. Only rhetorically, of course, because the answer is: You can’t.
Unlike many of those parents, however, McDonald found a way out: a public charter school approved in 2009 by a state commission. That commission closed after a 2011 court ruling declared it unconstitutional, but it would be re-created if voters approve Amendment One in next month’s election.
“I did everything right. I looked at every [school’s] test score between here and what was driveable,” says McDonald, a widowed mother of one whose parents had pledged to drive her daughter as far as Macon each day if that’s what it took. She tried one charter-school lottery and lost. As a single mother, private school was out of the question.
“I did what I was supposed to do,” she says. “And what did I find out [about the local schools]? Y’all cheated!”
Cheating wasn’t an issue at the elementary school Rich Thompson’s daughter used to attend — at least, he didn’t think it was. But low expectations were.
Thompson was the PTA president at Deerwood Academy in southwest Atlanta when, one spring, he realized things weren’t as good as they seemed.
“We had the normal end-of-the-year Awards Day program,” Thompson recalls. “Pretty much every grade level walked across the stage, and every kid got some kind of a certificate or ribbon or trophy. The principal was patting them on the back, saying what a great job they did.”
Within a few days, however, Thompson came across the Georgia Public Policy Foundation’s 2009 “Report Card for Parents,” which ranks the state’s public schools according to their test scores. Deerwood Academy’s third-graders ranked 940th out of 1,208 schools statewide. Its fifth-graders were 470th out of 1,201.
“I just got livid,” Thompson recalls. “How in the hell can everybody be so happy with our performance when one grade level is in the 900s and one is in the 400s compared with the other schools in the state? …
“There just wasn’t any interest in doing anything beyond getting the public recognition we were getting. And it just wasn’t enough for me.” His daughter now attends an independent, start-up charter school.
It wasn’t long before that public recognition proved even more hollow: Deerwood was one of the first schools implicated in the APS cheating scandal. “It was just a big sham,” Thompson says of all the certificates, ribbons and trophies.
Accolades for his son at a south Fulton school also seemed suspect to Gavin Samms.
“His teacher said, ‘He’s so wonderful. He’s so quiet,’ ” Samms recalls. “But I said, ‘He isn’t learning anything.’ “
His son, Samms says, “kept coming home with the same worksheets of things I taught him two years before.” No one at the school was interested in giving the boy more challenging work, he says.
Samms didn’t just look for another school. He started one: Fulton Leadership Academy, which the erstwhile state commission approved in 2009. Despite its focus on the STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering and math) and test scores that last year beat both state standards and south Fulton schools’ averages, the Fulton school board denied FLA’s application to keep its charter. The state granted it under provisional authority that is highly questionable in light of the 2011 court ruling.
“They [the Fulton board] said we’re not ‘unique,’ ” Samms says. “It’s an all-boys school. We have STEM, we have an aviation focus. … You must see African-American boys in planes every day, because apparently we’re not unique enough.”
A note to those who think Amendment One is designed to pave the way for a modern white flight from Georgia’s public schools: Like Samms, McDonald and Thompson are black. Charter schools have a higher percentage of minorities or low-income students than traditional public schools, according to the Georgia Charter Schools Association.
They’re also more likely to serve them better, to hear these parents tell it.
– By Kyle Wingfield
RELATED:
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The real statistics for Georgia’s charter schools
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361 comments Add your comment
Buzz Aldrin
October 25th, 2012
5:56 am
Hmmm…spin from one side, spin from the other.
Li'l Aynie
October 25th, 2012
6:07 am
How about improving the public schools, rather than siphoning off money to fund charter schools run by for-profit corporations, or heaven forbid, religious organizations?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 25th, 2012
6:15 am
“How about improving the public schools, rather than siphoning off money to fund charter schools run by for-profit corporations, or heaven forbid, religious organizations?”
Because public schools can never be improved so long as they are run by the government and their agendas controlled by the NEA.
Karl Marx
October 25th, 2012
6:19 am
LiL Aynie please tell us just how public schools are loosing money? Last I checked they do not fund Charter schools BUT THEY DO KEEP THE PROPERTY TAXES THEY COLLECT. Talk about double dipping.
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
6:20 am
They’re also more likely to serve them better, to hear these parents tell it.
And there’s the argument for big government intervention? Desperate parents know a state appointed board will serve them better than a local elected board? Where does this magical knowledge come from?
I thought “we gotta do SOMETHING, ANYTHING, let’s throw more money at the problem” was a liberal mantra. Amazing how that’s acceptable when the money is being thrown at you.
As a taxpayer, my interest is in ALL children using MY tax dollars. Creating a little lifeboat for somebody’s precious snowflake (while leaving the other precious snowflakes behind to whatever fate befalls them) is not in my interest. If the local-based system of education is so prone to crappy performance, we need to have a discussion about why small, local government is so bad it needs help from big state government. Maybe local control is not a magic panacea.
Oh, wait, I can see why so-called conservatives would rather throw a bunch of kids away rather than face that argument. You might have to reason and use your brain instead of chanting slogans. You might have to question one of your basic precepts and give up your little fiefdoms.
Well, too bad for those kids who will be left out. Guess it’s not all about the chiiiillldren after all.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
6:21 am
Amendment one is a scam to give the for-profit education industry a bigger market from which to access tax dollars. Highlight the public schools that have problems as the AJC and others have done. Promote improvement through transparency. Then again, that’s not your goal, is it.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 25th, 2012
6:24 am
Aquagirl, I know this simple fact will be lost on you, but this amendment only allows an appeal process when a parent / charter school application is turned down by the local school board.
You know, the boards that are captured by the system the day they are sworn into office?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 25th, 2012
6:30 am
“Amendment one is a scam to give the for-profit education industry a bigger market from which to access tax dollars.”
Yeah, ’cause making money while educating our kids is so bad.
How about this, Numbers? Let’s make sure that all the textbook providers are doing so at cost, shall we? Can’t make money off of teaching our children, now can we? And those construction firms that build our schools? Sorry, but no more profits for you, either. Oh, and those food services that sell lunches to the kids; better not be making any money on them. No computers, band instruments, whiteboards or pencils unless everybody provides them without a shred of profit.
THIS is how ridiculous the “we can’t have for-profit education” argument is.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
6:36 am
The last thing we need is a k-12 school system modeled after Phoenix University. Except for Tiberius and Kyle, et al. We should all make as much profit off of them as possible.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 25th, 2012
6:41 am
“We should all make as much profit off of them as possible.”
Nobody has said that, Numbers, But when you’re caught with your pants down in an argument, the best thing is to just make up stuff, right?
If the job of educating kids gets done as good, if not better than public schools, why shouldn’t the people who accomplish that make some money?
What’s the goal here? Education? Or making sure someone doesn’t profit from it?
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
6:42 am
You know, the boards that are captured by the system the day they are sworn into office?
If those boards are being captured by the system, then we need to discuss the system. Not enable a few people to escape and let the rest to rot.
Your utter lack of concern for a lot of kids is showing. Not that it matters to you or a bunch of so-called conservatives.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
6:51 am
Nobody has said that, Numbers, But when you’re caught with your pants down in an argument, the best thing is to just make up stuff, right?
That was such a quick backtrack, I thought you were Mourdock or Romney posting for a moment there.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
6:53 am
Your utter lack of concern for a lot of kids is showing. Not that it matters to you or a bunch of so-called conservatives.
So long as there is a profit to be made, it’s all good with these conservatives. They only believe in using the label “non-profit” when looking for more tax deductions.
cc
October 25th, 2012
6:55 am
We continue to repeat the mistake of pouring money into a system that is not producing the desired result. Government indoctrination centers (public schools) are a failure. Those students who excel in learning do so DESPITE the abysmal education offered in those centers.
It is not strictly the fault of many of the teachers for they must teach to the lowest level in the class. The brighter students become bored and tend to lose interest.
Why is there so much opposition to an alternative means of education? Is it because we must promote the idea of equality of outcome? Must we produce equally ignorant graduates? Isn’t this just a tool used in the ‘dumbing down’ of America?
If we rely on the government indoctrination centers, we will be producing ‘dumbed down’ and ignorant citizens and voters. Maybe that is the reason primarily democrats so vigorously defend the public schools and just as vigorously fight the charter school amendment? Could the opposition’s purpose be to produce more democrat voters?
@@
October 25th, 2012
7:13 am
Opponents believe that black parents and their children don’t deserve better.
I think it’s what GWB called THEIR soft bigotry of low expectations.
cc
October 25th, 2012
7:26 am
@@:
I believe President Bush made a very valid point . . .
Eddie Hall
October 25th, 2012
7:32 am
A couple of points; Yes many think this amendment will take us down the road of segregation, but not just divided on racial lines, but along socio-economic ones.
If parents will not get involved and ELECT good BOE members, and demand improvement from the ballot box, why should the rest of the state pay the price for a few failed systems? Be careful when you give up your right to vote to an “appointed” committee. It is a start down a slippery slope. Last but not least, Why does NONE of the pro-charter supporters, including the media, fail to discuss the states this has been tried, and is working no better, and even worse, than what we now have, and they are run by some of the very same companies pouring money into THIS campaign? Another question to Kyle. Why not feature the MANY systems that are successful and maybe try to model the failing ones after THEM? I will be voting NO! We can do better than this.
stands for decibels
October 25th, 2012
7:32 am
Kyle, I do try to keep an open mind when reading the cases you make, but frankly this one is starting to smack of “we had to destroy the village in order to save it[1].”
Yes, this metro area’s public schools have serious issues. Yes, we have to be flexible in how we address them. No, we do not need to create an overarching statewide authority that institutionalizes and normalizes what should be a rare occurrence–the takeover of a school district.
also too:
A note to those who think Amendment One is designed to pave the way for a modern white flight from Georgia’s public schools: Like Samms, McDonald and Thompson are black. Charter schools have a higher percentage of minorities or low-income students than traditional public schools,
…which doesn’t really prove much of anything. small sample size, correlation doesn’t equal causation, et cetera.
I’ll leave you with thoughts from a guy with whom I’ve had some very, very serious issues, who is about as far from being a bleeding-heart liberal as you can get, who said this about the referendum:
“Go ahead and approve charter schools, but make sure you use a vehicle that’s already available to you. (With this amendment) you’re setting up a dual school system, and quite frankly folks … you know we’ve had two school systems before in this state. We used to say they were separate but equal. Now, the separate was correct, but I don’t think the equal was, do you?”
—–
1. which, yes, I recognize, is an apocryphal quote. Work with me here.
Permanent
October 25th, 2012
7:34 am
Changing our constitution is a very serious, very permanent action. To change it to resegregate GA’s schools run by out of state corporations is a really bad idea. Letting seven people in Atlanta instead of our local communities have the say-so is a really, really bad idea. Vote no.
Buzzy
October 25th, 2012
7:35 am
The taxpayers of Georgia already by our Department of Education to manage charter schools.
I plan to vote NO on this amendment because I don’t want these schools managed by the current majority in our legislature. Too many cooks spoil the soup.
Really?
October 25th, 2012
7:37 am
The University of Phoenix and all the so-called ‘universities’ of similar ilk are a perfect example of what is wrong with for-profit education. Would you seriously hire anyone with an on-line degree? Really? I don’t believe if you have a choice of hiring a college graduate with equal grades from UGA, GT or U of Phoenix that the latter would stand a chance. Get real. You want government money to fund your private school but that support stops at post secondary education. Why would that be? If it is fine for grade, middle and high school, then it should be o’k for post secondary education… but it isn’t … everyone knows that and these ‘universities’ are under severe scrutiny for essentially fraud. How can it be flawed at that level and not at the grade, middle or high school level? It can’t. It’s the same.
stands for decibels
October 25th, 2012
7:41 am
Guess it’s not all about the chiiiillldren after all.
I feel genuine pity for any Amendment One supporter who truly believes otherwise.
This is on the ballot, worded as it is, for one reason and one reason only: Profit.
dc
October 25th, 2012
7:45 am
How about not sacrificing my kid so you can piously claim it’s better to “fix the public schools we already have”…….. The few kids that attend our worst schools and actually want to learn, are dragged down in life by the thugs around them who don’t. So they end up stuck in a life of poverty and ignorance. And yet we continue to hear people say that allowing these kids the opportunity to move into an environment where learning is actually valued somehow hurts those “left behind in the big public school”…….seriously?
The reason these few kids (and parents) who actually care need to be allowed an alternative, is exactly because of the “other kids” who don’t give a crap.
It amazes me how many self proclaimed “caring” liberals can actually make the heartless decision to not open up a way out for these families. What a bunch of complete hypocrites………. When you vote, please consider this……and care enough about the students (they are what matters….not the school itself, which is just a tool) to give them an opportunity and a way out to a better life.
Gail
October 25th, 2012
7:55 am
I understand that some people do need alternatives to their local school but I don’t think changing the state constitution is the answer. Make a law to create an appeals process if that is the problem.
Remember the HOPE scholarship? Do you really trust the same people who changed the rules in the middle of the game on thousands of college students to be the ones approving the people serving on a charter school commission?
What you are told now about funding can change next year. i was told that currently charter schools get $2100 more state tax dollars per student than public schools get per student.
What’s to prevent the legislature from changing the funding allocations? Nothing. They may decide that charter schools need even more money next year. They will have the power. This indirectly affects state funding to public schools. And is the commission going to work for free? Where will they get the money to pay them? It will come from the education budget that is allocated to all the school;systems.
And what determines “upon the request of the local communities?” I was at a community meeting on the Charter school amendment the other night, and I think there was someone in the audience from ALEC. He was the first person with a statement during the Q&A section. He was not from my community. Since it says “upon the request of the local communities” does that mean we get to vote on the request? I don’t think so.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
7:58 am
Deerwood Academy’s third-graders ranked 940th out of 1,208 schools statewide. Its fifth-graders were 470th out of 1,201.
So, how do you fix that? Oh, maybe that is too tough a question for the cons? Let’s not do the difficult work of addressing the problem. Instead, let’s go over here and create an identical system that won’t have those problems….for a while.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
8:00 am
You think this looks like a good answer but all this will do is siphon tax dollars into the greedy hands of a couple of companies. Once they have bled the state dry they will move on to another state and do the same thing.
And all you folks who voted for this solution will be looking for where you can get reamed again in order to “fix” the problem.
stands for decibels
October 25th, 2012
8:01 am
Do you really trust the same people who changed the rules in the middle of the game on thousands of college students to be the ones approving the people serving on a charter school commission?
Glad you asked. Why, no. I do not.
And that is a great example of what to expect down the road if this abomination is passed. These are not people who are likely to care about the actual individuals who are at the end of the battering ram being applied to shape their lives. I respectfully submit that they will care about the livelihoods of those who will profit from the schools and, of course, the political machine to which favors will be owed.
How “conservatives” who have the nerve to use that term to self-identify can back such a thing truly boggles my mind.
I was at a community meeting on the Charter school amendment the other night, and I think there was someone in the audience from ALEC.
Wouldn’t surprise me a bit. They’ve been working very hard for their clients to get this, um…”Crammed down our throats,” I believe is the phrase we’re supposed to use when it comes to heartless government takeovers, right?
stands for decibels
October 25th, 2012
8:02 am
oy. forgot to turn off the slanties after the first paragraph, before turning them back on again for the fifth, @ 8.01. my bad.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
8:03 am
dc,
quit whining and go pony up for a private school. Quit looking to the rest of us to provide special privileges for your kid.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
8:05 am
allowing these kids the opportunity to move into an environment where learning is actually valued somehow hurts those “left behind in the big public school”
No one is NOT allowing these kids any opportunities. Open your wallet and pay for it or pipe down.
JDW
October 25th, 2012
8:07 am
@Tiberius…”What’s the goal here? Education? Or making sure someone doesn’t profit from it”
The goal is the best education at the best price. Adding a profit motive siphons money from that objective while atthe same time making the education secondary to the profit. Thats why the stats on the quality of education provided by for profit institutions are abysmal.
MAY
October 25th, 2012
8:08 am
To all that say change your local school board….the board in Gwinnett County have served an average of twenty something years. If you take out the longest standing member, it’s still something like 16 years. It can be nearly impossible to turn over one seat let alone four. They’re protecting the status quo and that’s what a no vote will do. If you vote no, don’t walk around like you care and say stupid things like ‘change the system we have’. The wall the establishment has built around itself will absolutely not allow for rel change. Charter schools are simply options. The boys at Fulton Leadership Academy are doing great, really great, but big Fulton education doesn’t want to see that happen. I don’t know why but without the state approval process, those boys stand a greater chance of falling into lifestyles that cost the taxpayer a heckuva lot more than a state approved charter school. Vote yes if you really believe small change can occur.
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
8:09 am
It amazes me how many self proclaimed “caring” liberals can actually make the heartless decision to not open up a way out for these families.
…sez the con who wants to “leave behind the thugs.”
Your claim to the moral high ground is repulsive and screamingly fake.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
8:14 am
Maureen, alleges that Mitt Romney lied about the value of Staples, pretending its stock was virtually worthless so as to prevent Maureen from getting much money from her ex-husband.
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/25/an_actual_october_surprise/
That would be sweet justice for that woman! Take the bully down, Maureen!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
8:18 am
Go to your CTO and tell them you know a programmer with a degree from U of Phoenix and then watch them roll on the ground laughing before they go to HR to discuss replacing you with someone who has a brain.
stands for decibels
October 25th, 2012
8:18 am
the board in Gwinnett County have served an average of twenty something years. If you take out the longest standing member, it’s still something like 16 years. It can be nearly impossible to turn over one seat let alone four.
I would have a tremendous amount of personal sympathy for this sentiment, save for one thing: Hardly anyone bothers to get off their fat butts and vote in school board elections.
If there were a will there’d be a way to purge the GBOE of its skunks. From my experience, there ain’t no will.
(and this dovetails nicely with those who bemoan–with a great deal of justification, frankly–the lack of parental involvement in their own kids’ school careers. In this case, it’s a lack of VOTER involvement. which is pretty dumbfounding, frankly, given how much of each voter’s actual income is forked over every year in property taxes to fund these enterprises.)
stands for decibels
October 25th, 2012
8:25 am
Go to your CTO and tell them you know a programmer with a degree from U of Phoenix and then watch them roll on the ground laughing before they go to HR to discuss replacing you with someone who has a brain.
But Finn, they have such pretty commercials, with people who are Going Places. What you say can’t be true; I saw otherwise on my TeeVee.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
8:28 am
looks like Elizabeth Warren is pulling ahead in MA.
mwuahahahahaha
Whirled Peas
October 25th, 2012
8:31 am
Our public schools are a black hole where normal rules do not apply. Political correctness and mediocrity are the governing principles. You can put as much money in these things as you want, they will all be mediocre. In the 1980’s the Kansas City school system was taken over by a Federal Judge forcing racial busing on the people. He dictated a major increase in money going into the schools. The judge demanded highly paid teachers, shiney new schools with great facilities and lots of professional attention. It didn’t matter. As whites left the school system, the grades dropped. The judges efforts to make people behave has he wanted failed so badly that they gave up on racial busing. They should have given up on government monopoly schools too. But some people learn too slowly.
Vote for good schools for our children. Vote yes on charters.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 25th, 2012
8:32 am
“Your utter lack of concern for a lot of kids is showing.”
Point out where any lack of concern exists, Aquagirl.
That’s right. You can’t. Making up stuff just like Numbers does.
JKL2
October 25th, 2012
8:33 am
dc- The reason these few kids (and parents) who actually care need to be allowed an alternative, is exactly because of the “other kids” who don’t give a crap.
Well said. I find it amaizing how all these people who spent years complaining about “no child left behind” are now endorsing it as the holy grail of our education system.
stands for decibels
October 25th, 2012
8:43 am
Point out where any lack of concern exists, Aquagirl.
I think the bit about “dragged down in life by the thugs around them”, which AG reasonably interpreted as favoring “leaving the thugs behind”, which she specifically cited, covers that.
Making up stuff just like Numbers does.
Tiberius, your concern is duly noted.
/drive by. back later, perhaps…
cellophane
October 25th, 2012
8:50 am
I’m tired of hearing we need to approve this amendment because of the cheating in APS. APS has approved more charter schools than any other school district. Options are being created for APS. This amendment does not guarantee charter schools will be created where they are needed. With private for profit companies in charge, charter schools will be created where they are profitable (wealthy suburbs). And the talking point about public schools getting to keep “all the local tax dollars”– hello, have you seen a 5-year history of a local tax digest lately? Those numbers are dropping 5-10% annually, tens of millions of dollars dropping out of the local side of funding. There is no big funding windfall created when charter kids leave a local school district when the property values are in free fall.
Bob
October 25th, 2012
8:55 am
Aquagirl, why are you concerned about kids that may be left out of charters. Close to 45% of Atlanta public school kids don’t graduate now, how have you helped those kids and why do you want the status quo ?
Georgia
October 25th, 2012
9:03 am
Remember, understand the way the bill is worded on the actual ballot. Because of clever phrasing, a yes vote means you favor passage and want Obama to release his college transcripts. A no vote means you favor status quo and want Obama to release his passport records. If you don’t vote then you blame the whole education mess on the Mohammed Video. I hope that helps.
Peach Fuzz
October 25th, 2012
9:03 am
If the local schools are falling behind, what’s to say new schools under a separate government entity will fare any better? Fix the local schools first, before creating a new problem. Where’s the guarantee that new charter schools won’t cheat test scores to maintain their funding? This sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors. Just say “No” to the charter school amendment.
Russ Moore
October 25th, 2012
9:08 am
I worked as a consultant on Dr. Samms’ school (Fulton Leadership Academy). I can attest that it is absolutely unique. It also has a dynamic board of local parents and leaders that is everything you would want in such a group: diverse, committed, cooperative and very, very focused on the students and student achievement. The boys wear uniforms to school. The parents – many of whom are poor – are rich in engagement. They are determined that their children will avoid the traps that most African-American boys face in public schools: drugs, crime, gangs, cheating, and bad scores. FLA teaches morals as well as academics, and the students learn (as the school name suggests) TO BE LEADERS. Responsible leaders. We need more leaders like Gavin Samms and Rich Thompson. Kudos as well to FLA’s other founder, Richardean Anderson (an African-American woman).
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
9:14 am
Good line:
[Republican] party’s near-unanimous acceptance that government should not do much of anything beyond fielding an army, policing sexual conduct and subsidizing corporations.
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/i-might-be-disillusioned-about-election-2012-stakes-country-are-still-huge
One perspective....
October 25th, 2012
9:15 am
If the local schools are falling behind, what’s to say new schools under a separate government entity will fare any better?
So… don’t do anything because the charter school might not be better? What kind of twisted logic is that?
People keep saying “fix the current schools first”. What, in the last 100 years of trying, makes you think that is possible? Why should a kid be trapped in a school TODAY because you believe that the school might be able to be fixed by some nebulous future miracle?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
9:16 am
Peach Fuzz, that sounds like the conservative argument against government spending and current federal debt levels.
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
9:19 am
Aquagirl, why are you concerned about kids that may be left out of charters.
Because despite the wishes of people like Tiberius those children don’t magically disappear when you remove your precious snowflake from their presence.
I give Whirled Peas credit for being honest, unlike some of y’all. You can’t pray the gay away, and you can’t charter the black people away either.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
9:21 am
People keep saying “fix the current schools first”. What, in the last 100 years of trying, makes you think that is possible?
But Charter Schools are the magic bullet? But then you say the magic bullet has never been found before and probably impossible to find???
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
9:23 am
Aqua, they don’t want to address the problems, they want to remove their kids from the problem but can’t (or refuse to) pay for private schools.
So, pipe down and pony up for these snowflakes. K, thanks.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
9:29 am
Finn @ 9:21: Find one person, anywhere, who has said or implied that “charter schools are the magic bullet.” Just one.
In fact, charter-school advocates almost always say the exact opposite: Charter schools are not a magic bullet. But they can be part of the solution — especially if they aren’t run or overseen by the same people running and overseeing the schools we have now.
Peach Fuzz
October 25th, 2012
9:29 am
@ One perspective: If you feel like your kid is trapped in public school, then send him to private school on your own dime. Providing a superior educational experience for your “special” child is not the responsibility of taxpayers.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
9:31 am
Aquagirl @ 9:19: I would like to have some basis, other than figments of your imagination or the imaginations of people who write talking points opposing this amendment, that this amendment would have the intended or unintended basis of “charter[in] the black people away.”
It is a baseless claim that actually flies in the face of the evidence.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
9:32 am
Finn @ 9:14: Yeah, most “lines” grounded in fantasy do sound good.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
9:34 am
Peach Fuzz @ 9:03: “If the local schools are falling behind, what’s to say new schools under a separate government entity will fare any better?”
For starters, the data.
Junior Samples
October 25th, 2012
9:38 am
Charter Schools are much cheaper and your kids actually learn something.I am against government anything, especially a government that brainwashes your kids into their ideological way of socialist thinking. Vote Yes!
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
9:39 am
cellophane @ 8:50: “With private for profit companies in charge, charter schools will be created where they are profitable (wealthy suburbs).”
Funny, I thought the location of charter schools might have something to do with demand — which happens to be in the exact opposite of the wealthy suburbs you’re talking about, because wealthy suburbs already tend to have good schools or, failing that, people with the means to take their kids elsewhere. The point of letting the funding follow the child is to allow lower-income people to have options.
Peach Fuzz
October 25th, 2012
9:39 am
Kyle @ 9:34 am: And we know from historical precedent that statistics can’t be manipulated to serve and bolster a political agenda. And like so many things, past performance is not a guarantee of future returns. Sorry, but it take more than numbers on a sheet of paper to convince me that adding a new arm to the Leviathan is keeping with the best interests of Georgia taxpayers.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
9:41 am
stands @ 8:18: So the fact that people pay little attention to school board elections makes you have less sympathy for that sentiment? I would have thought it’d make you have more.
md
October 25th, 2012
9:43 am
I hate to be so blunt (or do I), but we have been creating a very un-realistic society in the past few decades. We’ve become so PC in an attempt to not hurt any feelings that we no longer prepare our kids for the real world.
Sometimes, we need to understand that we actually do suck at some things……we can not improve ourselves if we think we are doing just fine when in reality we are not.
The suckiest kid on the ball team needs to understand that his trophy WASN’T for doing a good job……it was for trying……….and trying doesn’t always cut it in the real world……….
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
9:43 am
Finn @ 9:23: ” they want to remove their kids from the problem but can’t (or refuse to) pay for private schools.”
The “refuse to” part is one thing. But are you honestly saying that people should stay stuck in bad schools because they can’t afford to get out? When we as taxpayers are going to pay the same either way?
EDUCATE OR INCARCERATE!
October 25th, 2012
9:43 am
Education reform needs to start somewhere!!! What we have been doing obviously doesn’t work. Georgia is #48 in the country-we have MORE 25% high school drop out rate. It is a fact that lack of Education equals HIGH CRIME RATE, LESS JOBS COMING TO GEORGIA & LOW PROPERTY VALUES. Should we invest in prisons or education? THE PROBLEM IS THAT LOCAL SUPERINTENDENTS WANT THE CONTROL! IF CHARTERS EDUCATE WITH LESS MONEY (AND THEY DO)- HOW DO THE SUPERINTENDENTS LOOK? Amendment 1 is neccessary if we are going to improve the education in Georgia. We will make the Schools accountable when then need to compete to keep up with the Charters.
md
October 25th, 2012
9:46 am
As for charter schools, we already have them to a degree, but many aren’t seeing it. The choice is called “moving”, and that will continue for any that have the means to do so……forever.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
9:49 am
Peach Fuzz @ 9:39: Actually, the manipulation of stats is being done by the opponents of the amendment, who water down the comparison to the broadest, least instructive level. What I did in that column was compare like to like. And it reveals that state-chartered schools are performing far better than the opponents let on.
As for the ” adding a new arm to the Leviathan” part: One argument by opponents is that this commission would be redundant because the state BOE already can approve charters. As I’ve argued before, that power is highly questionable in light of the 2011 Supreme Court ruling, and an amendment would take away that uncertainty. But even if we ignore the aspect of uncertainty: This “new arm of the Leviathan” would comprise seven unpaid appointees. The staff aiding them would be the same DOE staff aiding the state board now. They would have no more latitude to approve charters than the state board does now. So I fail to see how this adds more government in any substantial way.
Creflo Dollah
October 25th, 2012
9:54 am
I wanna teach children jesus rode on a dinosaur, and get paiiiiiiiiid!
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
9:54 am
I would like to have some basis, other than figments of your imagination or the imaginations of people who write talking points opposing this amendment
Are you claiming people will not vote for this amendment so kids can “get away from the thugs?” Or that those people are as scarce as hen’s teeth?
One of the most putrid aspects of current conservatism is the blatant use of fringe a-holes (like birthers and racists) while claiming “oh, we’re against that.” Posters like Whirled Peas aren’t rare here. So please spare me the kumbayah stuff about how you empathize so much with Ms. McDonald while someone here basically says her kid’s problem is negro genes.
BTW, I notice Ms. McDonald entered a charter lottery and didn’t get a slot. That’s too bad but if you propose we open charter schools for every parent that wants one, be honest and give us a cost assessment. I bet some of your conservatives would be a little less empathetic and concerned for the chiiiildren if they knew the price tag.
Peach Fuzz
October 25th, 2012
9:58 am
Ok, so who gets to pick and choose which students are sent to the new charter school, and which ones get left behind at the underperforming public school? Or will we be dealing in percentages where kids falling into a certain category get schlepped across town while those who fall below the bar are abandoned to mediocrity at the old school? Or will this be a lottery based system where the haves and have-nots are selected at random?
Joseph
October 25th, 2012
10:00 am
Everyone please vote “Yes” for Amendment 1
Why would any voter vote “no” on Amendment 1? I’ve heard many tired arguments of adults who oppose charter schools, yet, I’ve found no child who opposes them. Shouldn’t that be the key in deciding the future of education in Georgia?
One argument that’s thrown out by opponents of the amendment is that charter schools take away funding from local schools. That of course is false. Charter schools take away no local funds and many of the people spreading this rumor know it. This is obviously a shrewd way to try and sway voters to vote their way.
Another argument is that charter schools take the best students from area public schools. Perhaps that’s somewhat true but there’s still a process that each and every student must go through before they can attend. But think about this. If a child was a good student in a public school system and had a choice to go elsewhere there must be a reason. Perhaps they were bullied. Perhaps the public school was actually holding back their progress. Perhaps the environment is friendlier. It could be a number of reasons but obviously there must be a problem if that child is willing to leave the public school system.
I honestly do hope voters realize the importance of this amendment’s passage. Thousands of students who already attend charter schools could possibly have to look elsewhere for their education if it fails. Voters should realize its what’s best for our children.
ImprovePublicSchools
October 25th, 2012
10:00 am
Li’l Aynie, and others, you are missing the whole point. Charter Schools ARE PUBLIC SCHOOLS and they are testing methods to IMPROVE PUBLIC SCHOOLS. That was the whole point of the conception of charter schools. The public school system will get much worse if it fails to embrace these changes.
Don't Tread
October 25th, 2012
10:00 am
The comments from the liberals on this blog make me glad I voted “yes”.
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
10:01 am
Two wrongs don’t make a right, and not all public schools and school districts are failing. State-sponsored charter schools may provide benefits to a few select children in the short run, but in the long run this form does not serve the public interest as it will foster corruption and deflect resources and desperately needed attention from the remaining local public schools. Removing local control is just flat out wrong-headed.
Kids do not get “trapped” in a public school. They get ENROLLED in a public school. It’s far beyond time for parents and the public to step up and take responsibility for the quality of their local public schools and the education of their children, public or otherwise.
JKL2
October 25th, 2012
10:04 am
aquagirl- You can’t pray the gay away, and you can’t charter the black people away either
Maybe you should read the article Kyle wrote today. It’s about BLACK parents trying to get a better education for their children. Why are you against educating blacks?
MotherOfTwo
October 25th, 2012
10:06 am
Kyle,
VERY VERY IMPORTANT:
Please stop saying Charter School supporters, as if, there is one unique group. There are Charter School supporters, who support, charter schools at the LOCAL level only.
We DO NOT plan to support the state charter school amendment.
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
10:08 am
MotherOfTwo: “There are Charter School supporters, who support, charter schools at the LOCAL level only.”
Precisely.
yuzeyurbrane
October 25th, 2012
10:09 am
Kyle, you have engaged in what is called “cherry picking”. And you have presented distorted statistics from the charter school association. Break it out on race alone and they will show charters are much whiter than traditional public schools. What generally occurs according to Dekalb Board of Education Chair is that there is segregation more based along economic lines than racial. This is not good either. All children must receive quality education both for the good of themselves and the good of society, regardless of the racial or economic circumstances of their parents, for neither of which the child has any responsibility.
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
10:10 am
yet, I’ve found no child who opposes them.
Great. Let’s put pony rides, free candy, and abolition of bedtimes on the ballot and let kids vote. Let’s put a few in office. How about an Unlimited Recess Czar?
Although looking at our current crop of Republicans letting 10 year olds run the government would be a distinct improvement.
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
10:10 am
“Actually, the manipulation of stats is being done by the opponents of the amendment”
I haven’t looked at a single stat. As a conservative, I reject this Amendment on principle.
DeKalb Dad
October 25th, 2012
10:14 am
Good work Kyle.
Do the ignorant establishment apologists have a serious suggestion for INDIVIDUAL parents who have no choice other than a failing/cheating local school?
The only suggestions I hear are move to a better zip code or give every school in the state an additional ~$100 per student and watch all schools thrive together.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
10:14 am
Peach Buzz @ 9:58: Charter schools by law have to take all comers. If there are more applicants than slots, a lottery is held.
Scrooge McDuck
October 25th, 2012
10:14 am
If Amendment One gives Travelin’ Don Balfour and Will the Winner “Chip” Rogers more control over my treasure, what’s not to like?
md
October 25th, 2012
10:15 am
Seems to me that those opposed to making any changes are voting for the status quo……which means those with the ability to move will do so and the poor will remain stuck in the non-performing schools…………..
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
10:17 am
Aquagirl @ 9:54: Nice try suggesting Whirled Peas speaks for all, or even a majority, or even a significant portion, of the amendment’s supporters. I’m sure we could find some opinions of opponents you wouldn’t want to subscribe to.
And I haven’t heard anyone suggest “we open charter schools for every parent that wants one.” What has been proposed is that there be a way for quality charter applications to be approved even if local boards deny them, on grounds that may well have nothing to do with the quality of the application.
md
October 25th, 2012
10:18 am
“Great. Let’s put pony rides, free candy, and abolition of bedtimes on the ballot and let kids vote. Let’s put a few in office.”
We already allow the ignorant to vote, might as well add the kiddies………..
cc
October 25th, 2012
10:19 am
“Maybe you should read the article Kyle wrote today. It’s about BLACK parents trying to get a better education for their children. Why are you against educating blacks?”
Far too many of these comments either claim or allude to racism in this proposed amendment. It’s the same old liberal ploy: if you can’t defeat that which you dislike with logic and reason, claim that it is “RACIST”. Sorry, y’all have used that word into extinction, and no logical person is buying it anymore.
teaching taxpayer
October 25th, 2012
10:20 am
If Governor Deal wants to give Georgians an actual choice, why haven’t he and the legislature put forward an amendment that would have the citizens ELECT the board that would review charter appeals? The APPOINTED board Amendment 1 would put in place would have zero accountability to taxpayers and voters.
I would support Amendment 1 in a minute if We The People could vote in or vote out the people deciding how to spend OUR money. However, that would give the people too much power to suit Governor Deal and the Gold Dome Gang.
St Simons
October 25th, 2012
10:21 am
VOTE NO TO ALL AMENDMENTS
out of respect to the “no big gubmint” & “strict constitutionalist” con
hypocrites. We already voted.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 25th, 2012
10:21 am
cc@6:55 AM
I can’t say it any better!
JDW
Take the waste involved in government schools and give that amount to those who would teach for profit, and there is their profit. Better education/same costs. Bonus, if they do not live up to expectations, fire them all and hire someone else.
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
10:22 am
“and the poor will remain stuck in the non-performing schools”
Why? Why? Why? Why on EARTH has the dialog shifted from FIXING the non-performing schools? Have we thrown in the towel on the poor victims of corruption and neglect? Go ahead, say “yes” and THEN try to convince me to vote for any other tax increase.
Liberals are running away from NCLB because it EXPOSED the corruption. It was a God-send, shedding light on the leeches in the education system. We have to confront problems in the public sector to fix them, not run away from them.
This whole charter thing is so wrong-headed it boggles the mind.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
10:22 am
MotherOfTwo @ 10:06: I have made that distinction far more often than have the amendment opponents who pretend that all charter schools perform equally (they don’t), and that local boards always approve quality charter applications (they certainly don’t).
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
10:23 am
Do the ignorant establishment apologists have a serious suggestion for INDIVIDUAL parents
Not really, egotistical jerks only concerned about their personal situation are pretty much beyond help. They’ll be self-centered people who don’t give a damn about the hundreds of other kids in that school no matter what.
My suggestion for those parents would result in a ban, because I don’t like selfish self-centered people who are unapologetic about their selfish self-centered demands.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
10:25 am
yuze @ 10:09: What have I cherry-picked? And what is distorted about the statistics I presented?
“All children must receive quality education both for the good of themselves and the good of society, regardless of the racial or economic circumstances of their parents, for neither of which the child has any responsibility.”
This is the whole point of the amendment! The whole point of letting funding follow the child! So that children whose families don’t have the means to move to another school can take the money we’re already spending on them and seek a better education elsewhere.
cc
October 25th, 2012
10:25 am
Thanks Rafe, I consider that a high compliment coming from you!
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
10:26 am
“This is the whole point of the amendment! The whole point of letting funding follow the child! ”
Then give them a voucher.
curious
October 25th, 2012
10:27 am
Make all schools Charter. Otherwise we are guaranteeing a two tier education system where the Charter Schools are producing high students/outcomes and the others are left to wallow in substandard school our better educated “leaders” care very little about.
Segregation returns.
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
10:28 am
“Make all schools Charter. ”
I like that idea, too. Not this one.
carlosgvv
October 25th, 2012
10:29 am
Most Georgia parents who are so desperate for charter schools would put it this way:
“How can I in good conscience send my child to a school that teaches evolution and modern astro-physics? After all, we fundamentalists know these evil teachings are straight from the pits of hell”.
Hillbilly D
October 25th, 2012
10:29 am
I’m for local control. As I’ve said before, I also think that this is another one of those statewide solutions to a localized problem. A large number of counties in Georgia only have one high school and one middle school. When you get right down to it, I don’t trust any government entity to do what’s right (or rather the people in it) but I’d rather take my chances with a local board who has to face election, than with a state board that is appointed. And before anybody asks, yes, I have some problems with my local school board but at least I can walk up to them in the grocery store and talk to them.
mike
October 25th, 2012
10:29 am
It sure seems that deriding public schools is the answer. And if parents can divert their property taxes to private schools then Little Johnny will excel. Schools are not miracle workers. Especially schools in Southwest Atlanta where the property tax digest has virtually collapsed. Once again this whole argument is about one thing and that is to allow parents to divert their property taxes into private schools at the expense of the public schools. Since most of the costs associated with the public schools are fixed that means that everyone else’s taxes are going to have to go up. Don’t be deceived by false promises.
curious
October 25th, 2012
10:29 am
Don’t worry. The appointees to the Charter School review board will be the same type as that buddy of Gov Deal who just happened to have some land to sell.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
10:31 am
DawgDad @ 10:22: “Why on EARTH has the dialog shifted from FIXING the non-performing schools?”
This is about providing a better education for students in non-performing schools. Why are you so wedded to the institution rather than the kids? The institution has been telling us for decades that improvements are just around the corner. Those improvements have never materialized. Why do you believe that’s going to change?
“We have to confront problems in the public sector to fix them”
This IS about confronting problems in the public sector — by providing other public avenues (charter schools are public schools, too) for educating the public. If you want to avoid that confrontation, then by all means, vote no on Amendment One and let the same old gang keep running the same old schools the same old way and produce the same old results.
I am frankly shocked that so many people who have such an obviously low opinion of the public schools in this state think the answer is to keep the power and money in the hands of the same people who have been running those public schools. That’s what boggles my mind.
JKL2
October 25th, 2012
10:31 am
aquagirl- Although looking at our current crop of Republicans letting 10 year olds run the government would be a distinct improvement
I agree. I think you are confused about obama being a Republican though…
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
10:33 am
DawgDad @ 10:26: Do you seriously think the Legislature is going to go the voucher route if this amendment is defeated? A defeat will be the end of serious education reform in this state, because it will suggest that the entrenched bureaucracy has the backing of the people.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
10:34 am
curious @ 10:27: The first step to making “all schools charter” is to make some schools charter.
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
10:35 am
Look, I certainly don’t expect Kyle to agree with me, and it is a bit surreal being in the company of some opponents of this Amendment. But there is most definitely a “principle-based” opposing view that has NOTHING to do with trying to protect failing public shools or shield bad educators and administrators. I am dead-set against eroding local control of public schools, although I support State standards and oversight, and intervention into failing or corrupt systems. I just want to see that position aired fairly and represented properly.
EDUCATE OR INCARCERATE!
October 25th, 2012
10:36 am
It has been proven that Local Control means NO Charter. Do some research! They have and will close schools down even the ones that out-performing them! BECAUSE THEY WANT A MONOPOLY! If you were a Walmart owner would you want Target accross the street? If you want education to improve — competition will be necessary!
A VOTE FOR AMENDMENT 1 WILL END BUSINESS AS USUAL!!!!! AMENDMENT 1 IS A VOTE FOR EDUCATION TO IMPROVE EVERYWHERE! WE MUST START SOMEWHERE, AND GEORGIA’S CHILDREN AND THE FUTURE DEPEND ON IT.
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
10:37 am
“Do you seriously think the Legislature is going to go the voucher route if this amendment is defeated?”
What does that have to do with my stance, based on the principles I’ve espoused? I will remain VERY firm in my beliefs regardless of what the legislature does or doesn’t do. I don’t change stripes with the wind.
sneak peak into education
October 25th, 2012
10:37 am
I agree with the writer – the cheating scandal in Atlanta is an abhorrence and should never have happened. However, if you think that the cheating scandal is just limited to traditional schools and not charters, think again. I found an example in just 30 seconds and I am sure that there are many, many more out there. So please don’t push for charter schools as a remedy to end cheating because they won’t, especially when you consider that they are supposed to be closed down if they don’t meet their targets. See the link below:
http://dianeravitch.net/2012/10/24/treasure-the-whistleblowers/
Also, in response to those who complain about the local BofE, you are complaining about a democratically elected board and you cry foul that they don’t dance to your tune. Instead of complaining and whining about them, run against them and convince the public that you are the future for the change and reform.
Lastly, there is no need to take the drastic step of changing the constitution to give up your democratic vote and put it into the hands of a non-elected board that is controlled by our current governor and his cronies-they have shown their true colors as poor guardians for public education and their contempt is blatant with the severe cutbacks and underfunding. They are pushing the policies of ALEC and their wish to see public education privatized. This is about MONEY and NOT ABOUT CHILDREN. Also, they have not said where the extra money to run these schools will come from. How does that make sense?
The only thing that makes sense is to VOTE NO in NOvember.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
10:38 am
OK, DawgDad, I’ll bite: What is your “principle-based” solution that addresses failing public schools, tackles the problem of bad educators and administrators, and provides for state standards, oversight and intervention into failing or corrupt systems, but also keeps control of public schools in the same hands as today?
JKL2
October 25th, 2012
10:38 am
aquagirl- They’ll be self-centered people who don’t give a damn about the hundreds of other kids in that school no matter what.
Sorry your children are lacking in the quality parent department. I guess they should have thought of that before they started reproducing. It’s not my fault “baby daddy” isn’t holding up his end of the deal.
One perspective....
October 25th, 2012
10:39 am
“Maybe you should read the article Kyle wrote today. It’s about BLACK parents trying to get a better education for their children. Why are you against educating blacks?”
Actually, its about ALL parents trying to get a better education for their children… pretty much anywhere there is a failing school.
A parent cannot turn around a failing school. Parent of a failing school cannot elect different board members without the support of the citizens of the city/county they live in. Example: if there are a handful of failing schools in a school district of one hundred schools, it is unlikely that the parents of those school can affect any change in elected school board members. They are a tiny number compared to the voting population. Even when the entire school district is failing (Clayton Co.), it can be nearly impossible to make effective changes to the school board. So what would you have the parents of students in those schools do? No amount of involvement or political activism is going to make a difference.
But anti-charter groups want to leave it to that SAME dysfunctional school board to voluntarily give up power to a charter school in their midst… a school that if approved might make their school system look bad. What school board in the right political minds would do such a thing (NONE). Local control is never going to result in any new charter schools, and proponents of local control are delusional if they think a local board of education will voluntarily allow for a new charter school.
mike
October 25th, 2012
10:40 am
ok, it just came to me. THE ANSWER! Let’s just eliminate the portion that we all pay on property taxes that is devoted to education and let each parent spend that money they way they see fit. Close all public schools, sell the property and be done with it. Then, your child’s education will be your responsibility and yours alone. Not enough money to send your child to school? Too bad.
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
10:40 am
sneak peak @ 10:37: No one said charters, or the people who run them, are perfect. The difference between charters that cheat and traditional schools that cheat is the charters can be closed down and/or the people who run them can be more easily fired. The traditional schools? How long have the hearings for APS educators implicated in cheating dragged on? And how many board members have been replaced?
curious
October 25th, 2012
10:40 am
Will local BOEs have any control over state approved/publically funded Charter schools? If not, will the state have separate school busses, sports teams/leagues, etc.
In any county with separate, public funded schools, there is going to be a big problem down the road.
Maybe local control needs to be abolished, but it should be across the board.
One perspective....
October 25th, 2012
10:41 am
I am frankly shocked that so many people who have such an obviously low opinion of the public schools in this state think the answer is to keep the power and money in the hands of the same people who have been running those public schools. That’s what boggles my mind.
Bingo.
md
October 25th, 2012
10:43 am
“A large number of counties in Georgia only have one high school and one middle school. ”
And some are that way by their own choosing.
Remember when Valdosta ruled the football universe? Football was the deciding factor as it was the money maker in the county. Valdosta knew that if they built another school in the county, the football team might take the hit……and it did. Now, the county school (Lowndes) is the big kid on the block and Valdosta is basically a has-been.
Another example of the same thing……perennial powerhouse Camden County……..only one high school for the same reason…..economics.
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
10:44 am
“I am frankly shocked that so many people who have such an obviously low opinion of the public schools in this state think the answer is to keep the power and money in the hands of the same people who have been running those public schools. That’s what boggles my mind.”
Voting NO on this Amendment based on the principle of local does NOT mean I think the answer is to keep the power and money in the hands of the same people who have been running those public schools (in the cases where the schools are failing). I think local people, perhaps with State assistance, need to clean house in many Georgia school districts and get some honest and honorable board members and administrators in place. I am opposed to this particular solution. This is NOT the only option, it’s just the only one on this ballot. Think TSPLOST – wrong solution.
mike
October 25th, 2012
10:45 am
I think it should be clear to all why this is such a burr in the side of Republicans. Two words: tax and public. It just reeks of socialism — the thought of having something that is public like a school system. Something that all can attend whether they pay taxes or not. It’s got nothing to do with grades or performance, it’s all about privatization and the money that some giant corporation can make educating your brat. WAKE UP!
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
10:46 am
it will suggest that the entrenched bureaucracy has the backing of the people.
Um, that’s pretty much how it works Kyle. People vote for their representatives and those representatives make the decisions. I didn’t vote for Nathan Deal, yet he’s still the Governor. I don’t get a Federal charter alternative to whatever state service I don’t like. The majority of Georgians voted for him and I accept the rule of law. I may express disagreement but doing an end-run is not my style. Your mileage, along with a lot of other me-firsters may vary.
But then I was never very good at being a sore loser who insisted on taking OTHER PEOPLE’S TAX MONEY and spending it how I want, despite the opinions of the others who are being taxed.
If, like me, you think the entrenched county school board system is a failure, then propose an alternative and work towards that. If you think the State makes better decisions about education then man up and say it. But apparently you want to have your small-government republican cake and eat it too.
Please drop the pretzel maneuvers to justify an unelected state board overruling a local elected board. You’re gonna hurt yourself.
Hillbilly D
October 25th, 2012
10:47 am
md
That may be true but Valdosta is a good sized town. The counties in my area (and in some other areas, too) don’t have the population/students or the money to support more than one school.
These Lying Eyes!!!
October 25th, 2012
10:48 am
Blah, Blah Blah…… If you want the best educations for your child, Get involved at their publc school… be and active parent, speak to the teachers and the administrators….. If that fails to advance the cause for your child, stop looking to undercut the current system… Reach down into your own pockets and PAY FOR THE EDUCATION YOU WANT YOUR CHILD TO HAVE ON YOUR OWN!!!!! Dig deep, take out a loan, cut the cable and get rid of the extras to pay to send your kid to private school! My wife and I decided that the Gwinnette county system was selling us a bill of goods, so I buckled down got a PT job to pay the the $900.00 a month it cost to send my child to the private School of my choice. Thats right…this left wing Obama supporter undersatnds that I am responsible for my own…. ( Wish some of these begging , looking for a handout Right side Cons would do the same!!!
md
October 25th, 2012
10:49 am
“A parent cannot turn around a failing school.”
No, but parents can……….and in actuality, are the only answer to failing schools, for if the parents don’t care nothing will change. The non-caring parents will forever be left on their own……
Bob
October 25th, 2012
10:52 am
Aqua, you have not responded, why should we be happy with the 55% grad rate of APS and how can you defend it ? Don’t blame the tea party or repubs since neither have anything to do with APS. You don’t seem to have a problem with the failure of APS and others and if you and your ilk were in charge I don’t see things changing considering the fact that the left has run APS for 30 or 40 years. APS is on its way to competing with Clayton County and you want to defend the status quo. You can bash others for wanting change you don’t like but you really can’t defend the failure that is APS.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
10:52 am
Take the “for profit” out of the Charter and see whom amongst the Republican backers are still supportive of this amendment. Make the Charter schools answerable to the tax payers in the areas that would establish these schools and see whom amongst the Republican backers are still supportive. Go for it. Only the conned would believe that we need a k-12 Phoenix School System. Anything for a profit.
md
October 25th, 2012
10:55 am
“The counties in my area (and in some other areas, too) don’t have the population/students or the money to support more than one school.”
And I didn’t mean to imply that it is the only reason……..but it is in those instances, and probably a few more. Football means an awful lot to some of these smaller counties and they know where their bread is buttered.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
10:55 am
Gotta love the big government loving libs run screaming away from an itty bitty appeals board.
Likewise the small government conservatives.
We’ve become a nation of unthinking extremists.
mike
October 25th, 2012
10:58 am
I only have a few more years to pay the education portion of property tax. So this issue won’t affect me in a few years. But I will say this: I attended a public school in the City of Atlanta and made good grades. I attended high school in the City of Atlanta and made good grades. I attended public college here in Georgia and graduated — not with honors — but with good grades. I went on to pass a professional examination and now have a professional career. You get out what you put in.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
10:58 am
Numbers, your “for-profit” argument has been debunked.
Move on.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
11:00 am
If the state really was interested in just the students then why didn’t the state legislature write an amendment that authorized the state to step in and take over the administration of specific schools that have a record of not satisfying some minimum standards. The Republicans are not interested in the students. They are interested in profiting off the students and their parents and every other tax dollar they can get their hands on. Take over the APS and show us what you can do. Take over half of the students in each of the schools and give us a side-by-side comparison of your most excellent abilities. I’d pay extra just to see that one.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
11:01 am
Tiberius,
You have not debunked anything. Now move on.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
11:01 am
think the answer is to keep the power and money in the hands of the same people who have been running those public schools
So, can we expect aliens to be appointed? Canadians? Or will we find normal Georgians appointed? In other words, the same people….
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
11:03 am
Aquagirl @ 10:46: You’d prefer they keep taking OTHER PEOPLE’S TAX MONEY and spending it in schools where their kids are being poorly educated and more likely to be a future drag on all those OTHER PEOPLE?
I swear, for someone who claims to be in favor of what’s good for the whole, you sure are opposed to something that would first and foremost help those people who aren’t being helped now.
mike
October 25th, 2012
11:04 am
What I find most interesting about this subject is that the State of Georgia has consistently cut funding to public schools under the guise of lower tax collections and the poor economy. That made my property taxes go up considerably. Now that revenue collections are up I don’t hear the State rushing to renew that funding to public schools. Do you? Rule of thumb: ANYTHING Republicans are for will generally end up costing the average person more and benefiting the well off. Believe it.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
11:07 am
And some are that way by their own choosing.
Absolutely. So many county’s citizens choose to not have the financial means to support more than one high school or the population to justify more than one high school. A for-profit Charter school is just what the doctor ordered.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
11:09 am
I swear, for someone who claims to be in favor of what’s good for the whole, you sure are opposed to something that would first and foremost help those people who aren’t being helped now.
So now you’re talking about the whole as opposed to the micro-subset of the whole. Well. Why didn’t you say so in the first place. I didn’t see anything in that amendment that mentioned a Charter school replacing the entirety of a given underperforming school. Probably just an oversight.
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
11:11 am
Aqua, you have not responded, why should we be happy with the 55% grad rate of APS and how can you defend it ?
Well, I’ll amend my last post since you are obviously not good at reading comprehension: since APS is city based I think the entrenched LOCAL school system is a failure.
Why are you happy with the 55% failure rate in APS? You think state granted charter schools will lower that to 54%? I’m sure you’ll have a great argument to defend 54% let’s hear it.
md
October 25th, 2012
11:14 am
“Absolutely. So many county’s citizens choose to not have the financial means to support more than one high school or the population to justify more than one high school. A for-profit Charter school is just what the doctor ordered.”
The operative word in the sentence was “some”, may want to look that one up if you are having problems with the meaning………
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
11:19 am
The Charter School Amendment is about corporate welfare and political cronyism. Follow the money.
“No one at the school was interested in giving the boy more challenging work, he says.”
So the answer is to siphon off more public funds to subsidize a system that requires less stringent qualifications for teachers?
$48,946,000 in “austerity” cuts to Fulton County Schools THIS YEAR (that amounts to $13,347 PER classroom). Restore public education funding in Georgia. Pay for it by doing away with the State House and Senate pension and healthcare system. Who gets a pension and healthcare from a part-time job?
Here’s the flip side from a parent who actually sent their child to Fulton Science Academy.
http://www.empoweredga.org/Articles/Guest/roswell-mom-no.html
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
11:19 am
On Donald Trump, Obama joked that they knew each other growing up in Kenya: “We had constant run-ins on the soccer field. He wasn’t very good, resented it. When we finally moved to America, I thought it would be over.”
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
11:20 am
Numbers, you failed to refute my very first post of the day. In fact, you ignored my pointing out your lack of logic and consistency in your position.
Repeating a failed talking point doesn’t make it any truer.
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
11:20 am
aquagirl @10:46 a.m.
When I find myself agreeing with you . . .
just this once, OK?
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
11:25 am
Tiberius,
You failed to refute any of my posts and you continue to do so. Now move on.
JDW
October 25th, 2012
11:26 am
@Kyle…”But they can be part of the solution”
Agreed, where we part company is on which part. After looking at this issue from a lot of sides, including the part where I am a parent of a child in a charter school I have come to the conclusion that the role of charter schools is from within the existing system.
Let me explain, if a group of parents wants to improve the local public school by working together and converting it into a charter I am all for it assuming the local school board agrees. If the local school board sees the need for a new school and a group of parents wants that school to be a charter same story. Now in that case I would even be open to some sort of an appeal process if the school board doesn’t agree.
What I am not in favor of is private companies, groups of parents or anyone else using state monies to build and fund additional schools outside the existing framework. I think it dilutes the role of both existing public schools and private schools.
The choice for parents is either work within the system to drive change or opt for private. A new network of charter schools does good for no one.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
11:27 am
The operative word in the sentence was “some”, may want to look that one up if you are having problems with the meaning………
Feel free to back up your claim of “some” by way of example, md.
curious
October 25th, 2012
11:28 am
This is not about improving public education. It’s about us paying to provide a semi-private school education for the proponent’s kids and give out of state companies carte blanche access to our money.
Do you believe privately run prisons are trying to rehab prisoners and get them back as productive members of society. I don’t think so; they want to keep a full house and could care less about the inmates.
For profits in the school business will do the same; do just enough to stay in business i.e. maximize profit for their shareholders.
catlady
October 25th, 2012
11:29 am
I’d be willing to bet the members of the Commission Board have already been chosen. If this amendment is approved, I would bet good money that there will be friends and family of our governor and members of our legislature, and many will “magically” end up with stock in the companies that run many of the charter schools.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
11:29 am
A new network of charter schools does good for no one.
Except the Republican backers that look to profit from them.
JDW
October 25th, 2012
11:30 am
@kyle…”But are you honestly saying that people should stay stuck in bad schools because they can’t afford to get out? ”
That is when they should get involved with their local school…they are the impetus for improvement. If you remove that impetus you will always have a failing school.
Mary Elizabeth
October 25th, 2012
11:30 am
We each have to prioritze what is important to us. There is NO way that I could vote yes to the Constitutional Amendment. My reasons are further expanded in the comments I made on Jay Bookman’s blog at 10:59 am, today. See below.
=================================================
” ‘Atlanta-based Georgia Pacific, owned by the Koch brothers, sent a similar letter to its 45,000 employees, warning that “many of our more than 50,000 U.S. employees and contractors may suffer the consequences” if the wrong man is elected president. . . the packet included columns written by the Koch brothers endorsing Romney and condemning Obama.’
==============================================
The Koch Brothers have also financially supported ALEC, which desires to turn our public schools into quasi-private schools run by corporate management companies for profit. The tactics that the Koch Brothers, et al., have used to attempt to control the minds and votes of their workers will later be used to control the minds and votes of the students and teachers functioning wthin their privately managed schools for profit, imo.
Two different visions for America. Romney and the Koch Brothers view workers, students, teachers, as well as women, and minorities as inferior to the moguls of industry because they see these moguls as all important to the success of this nation through private enterprise in which management’s voice is more important than workers’ voices. This is a hierarchial vision of humanity. If you vote for Romney, one day you, too, may find yourself at the bottom of their hierarchial vision of others, which will end up seeing only the top 1% of this world as worthy.
Jefferson, with his egalitarian vision for America’s evolving ideal, will weep for America if his dream for our democratic republic – and his dream for public education – are forfeited by an unaware electorate, and if unaware citizens cede their voices and their votes to the wealthy/ powerful elite who have stealthily tried to control this nation for their selfish, monetary purposes – through unsavory means – for decades.
Don’t be fooled and don’t be used. Vote for President Obama’s re-election. He will continue Jefferson’s egalitarian vision for America.”
===============================================
And, vote NO to the Consitutional Amendment, Amendment 1.
Cutty
October 25th, 2012
11:30 am
These same folks, including Kyle, were so against the T-SPLOST because they didn’t trust government to do the right thing. Now all of a sudden they trust government to do what’s right for our kids? Thanks,but no thanks. If you want to send your kid to another school, do it on your own dime. I don’t trust Deal or his cronies.
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
11:38 am
“Repeating a failed talking point doesn’t make it any truer.”
Self-realization?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
11:38 am
Funny how the libs are all about choice when it comes to abortion, but not with education.
Likewise they want us to pay for THEIR choices, but they don’t want to pay for ours.
Typical lack of any logic.
md
October 25th, 2012
11:40 am
“Feel free to back up your claim of “some” by way of example, md.”
I already did…….
becky
October 25th, 2012
11:40 am
“Since she is a single mother, private school was out of the question.”
Are you kidding me? Clearly you are stuck in the 1980s mentality Leonard Pitts discusses in the column next to yours. Being a single mother does not equal not being able to afford private school.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
11:41 am
I see the AJC has also done a little more reporting on one of these Charter Schools that Kyle and Co. find so interesting.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
11:42 am
I already did…….
Then provide a link.
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
11:42 am
“What is your “principle-based” solution that addresses failing public schools . . . but also keeps control of public schools in the same hands as today?”
First, as a backdrop, I would not classify public schools in Cherokee County as “failing”. It is important to me, on principle, to retain local control of public shools. As for the “failing” schools, quite frankly I liked the approach of NCLB. It espoused a mission-based principle (”no child left behind”) everyone should endorse, and the particular implementation exposed a lot of bad apples in the system. I would take the scrutinty to the next level; let’s set standards for boards and administrators/administration and school contracts and expose the leeches and corruption therein. I like the idea of making all public schools “charter” schools; that should be explored. The State can set standards for organization and formation but the control and chartering must remain local. I like vouchers, for ALL, not some, but there have to be safeguards in a voucher system to keep public schools open and effective for those electing that route.
The real question is what to do in school systems where the rot and corruption is so entrenched, and the local politics so corrupted or negligent, that the systems appear to be beyond fixing? That’s one reason I like vouchers, but I don’t believe in running away from problems. At some level people get what they vote for, and at some level kids of people who check out or don’t care are going to suffer regardless of what we do. What we can do is not run away from the problems.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
11:43 am
Self-realization?
We can always hope.
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
11:43 am
When I find myself agreeing with you . . .
Yeah, I feel the same way.
If it makes you feel better I started life as a conservative, back when logic in the GOP was a good word and conspiracy theories were bad. And I’ve voted libertarian and may do so again.
I don’t lose my $#!^ over some parent’s fee-fees which are understandably directed toward their child, even at the expense of other children.
JDW
October 25th, 2012
11:43 am
@Rafe…”Take the waste involved in government schools and give that amount to those who would teach for profit, and there is their profit. Better education/same costs. Bonus, if they do not live up to expectations, fire them all and hire someone else.”
Then you end up with situations like K12 in FL where profit rules and kids get the short end.
http://fcir.org/2012/09/11/state-investigating-virtual-schools-provider-k12/
I have seen other such providers where the percent of revenue that goes to actual education is less than 20%.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
11:51 am
Here’s another article in the AJC. Perhaps Kyle has already provided a comprehensive review for us somewhere so we do not have to go digging for the whole story.
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
11:53 am
“Funny how the libs are all about choice when it comes to abortion, but not with education.”
This close to Halloween I guess a scarecrow, um, straw man is appropriate.
Again, no one is against choice; just big government “conservatism” that would allow “the state” to override locally elected officials. There is a built in “appeals board” already. It’s called the polling booth.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
11:54 am
Real Athens, I’d suggest you address my first post of the day regarding for profit issues, but you lack the basic reading comprehension needed to do so.
Which is why all you have are snarky comments to contribute to this discussion.
Bob
October 25th, 2012
11:55 am
Aqua, I don’t have to defend anything. You say charters will graduate 54% yet have no facts to back it up. You are against change, that is evident, you are for the status quo that has failed the kids you purport to support. Why do you defend a system that spends thousands more per pupil than a school like Pius yet dumps kids on the streets with an 8th grade reading level. My kids were private school kids because of the failed system. We pay some of the highest property rates in the city yet NAHS is a failing school about to be taken over by the state according to the new super, Davis. The money is there, the education is not and it is time to move on.
Darwin
October 25th, 2012
11:55 am
Privatize everything. Money talks. Lobbyists already control government. People don’t care. That’s my answer.
Ol' Timer
October 25th, 2012
11:55 am
I am not convinced and have seen no empirical evidence that Charter Schools have a significantly better outcome than well run public schools, even though the Charters cherry-pick their students.
I agree with those who say we should focus on improving the public school system and not syphon off money into for profit educational corporations who, by their very intent, will have to spend less to accomodate the profits aspects, bonuses, etc.
This is just another privatization scam that creates an income stream for politicians who will be on the receiving end of political contributions and freebies from these corporate lobbyists and executives.
And, so it goes. . . .
mike
October 25th, 2012
11:56 am
JDW: Using uncertified teachers to increase profits? It just can’t be! Not in a private school system!
Bob
October 25th, 2012
11:57 am
Real Athens, you are correct, we have a polling booth and we should gut the pathetic system where it needs to be gutted.
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
12:00 pm
Tibby:
If your schools in Forsyth County are controlled by the NEA, I’m sorry. Georgia is a right-to-work state, with no collective bargaining agreement. We don’t have an education union here. We have a very passionate, super involved, locally elected school board.
Tonto
October 25th, 2012
12:00 pm
“Which is why all you have are snarky comments to contribute to this discussion.”
You must be taking to yourself while you are looking in the mirror
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
12:01 pm
… in Clarke County
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
12:04 pm
Care to cite the number of school board officials kicked out of office by the voters in failing school systems, Real Athens?
I didn’t think so.
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
12:07 pm
Aqua, I don’t have to defend anything.
Oh, sorry, I didn’t realize we were operating according to Magical Bobland Rules. Please re-send the memo, I must have missed that one.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
12:08 pm
Yeah, Real Athens, and our school system still performs like the tallest of the midgets.
As does yours.
And if you don’t think the NEA doesn’t control the education agenda in every state, you’re delusional.
Political Mongrel
October 25th, 2012
12:09 pm
Critic’s Disease: The assumption that the problems of your little corner of hell are everyone’s problems, and the assumption that your fixes of these problems should apply to everyone.
Charter schools proponents are infected with this.
Paul S
October 25th, 2012
12:15 pm
I’m going to ask the one question I’ve never heard an answer for from those who advocate that the solution to public school education is more spending: exactly how much more money – give us a dollar figure, not just a nebulous ‘more than we’re spending now” – how much more would be enough?
Support your number by solid research, as well. Cite examples which state, at a minimum, that “increasing spending by X percent has increased overall test scores by Y amount.” These supporting figures can’t simply be estimates of what someone THINKS could happen, based on theory but actual real-world-testable, real-world-repeatable results. In addition, I would like you to pass along the specific details on what each dollar contributed to the increase in learning levels: “for each dollar spent, we saw an actual increase of X, primarily contributed by Y methodology or Z technology.”
Don’t talk theory – let’s discuss reality and results.
sneak peak into education
October 25th, 2012
12:16 pm
@Kyle-you are saying that charter schools would deal with cheating more efficiently. The reason that it took so long to let the staff go is because of a thing called “due process” and please don’t forget that some of the staff were exonerated from the charges.While I am not agreeing with anything about the cheating scandal and believe that the teachers should have refused to join in, I do feel that many of them did so because of fear and intimidation from above together with the fear of losing their jobs. Don’t you think that in a charter school setting the teacher would be the scape goat for the management company running them? Without any job protections or due process they could be wrongly blamed and then never have the chance for employment as a teacher again. But then again, labor is cheap, right?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
12:16 pm
Tiberius, does your husband control how you vote?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
12:22 pm
I don’t even know what your nonsensical post means, Finn.
Even if I’m used to your nonsense.
cc
October 25th, 2012
12:25 pm
Tiberius:
. . . and nonsense it is!
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
12:27 pm
I don’t even know what your nonsensical post means, Finn.
That’s too bad, ’cause it was pretty funny.
Matz
October 25th, 2012
12:28 pm
Amending our Constitution to surrender our right to have a voice in our own communities is essential to the advent of the coming plutocratic corporatocracy.
Never mind that we currently have dozens of charter schools in Georgia and the mechanism in place to create new ones, and a right to hold the owners and administrators of schools in our own community accountable via our elected school boards. That’s MUCH too democratic for our good, Godly, “we know what’s best for you, so stop trying to make decisions on your own” Republican leaders in this state. After all, THEY — not us — are the recipients of all that yummy green out-of-state cash funneled in by billionaire philanthropists who of course spend their money here from the goodness of their hearts, expecting no profit in return. Right?
We have too many rights for our own good, so let’s listen to our Masters and vote “yes.”
Tim
October 25th, 2012
12:29 pm
Let’s fix the current system and not waste money on for profit education. I have witnessed the fact that this ‘choice’ can be used simply to promote segregation. I agree with some of the comments here about creating an appeals process for parents that are zoned into under performing schools. Let them have an avenue to take their children to another public school if they desire. But don’t do this big change, we will all regret it.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
12:32 pm
What Matz said.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
12:37 pm
More socialist drivel from Katz.
It’s almost as if AmVet was being channelled.
mike
October 25th, 2012
12:38 pm
I predict this amendment will go down to flaming defeat just like the T-SPLOST debacle. After that, maybe our vaunted, uncontrolled GOP leadership will finally realize that the people of Georgia are not stupid like they take us for.
independent thinker
October 25th, 2012
12:40 pm
Pure nonsense and self-pity on exhibit here. One would think all think all APS schools were involved in cheating and have low test scores. The Morningside/InmanGrady cluster is as good as any in the burbs and had no reported cheating. Pure BS. Why has Ms. McDonald not transferred her kids into that cluster?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
12:50 pm
Hey Cons, only 12 days left to procure some ant-depressants.
Romney’s other shoe should be dropping any day now so you all might want to double down.
Aquagirl
October 25th, 2012
12:54 pm
Why has Ms. McDonald not transferred her kids into that cluster?
For that matter her parents are willing to drive 200 miles round trip, she could have hit them up for cash and enrolled her kid in City of Decatur schools.
Or she could sit where she is and complain about her fee-fees, the for-profit schools/fake conservatives will rush to “help” her. Out of the goodness of their hearts, I’m sure.
Mountain man
October 25th, 2012
1:00 pm
Traditional schools have been trying(and failing) to fix their problems fo 40 years. The best they can come up with is to cheat. Do they address discipline? No. Do they address attendance? No. Do they address social promotion? No. Do they spend an inordinate amount of money on SPED students with little return? Yes.
Either fix the schools or let the parents who care get their kids out of the asylum. We know th first ain’t happening. Vote YES!
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
1:08 pm
I don’t care if we need the charter school amendment or not. I’m voting for it to piss off the libtards.
bigbill
October 25th, 2012
1:10 pm
Kyle: Please answer my concern. You say that the need for this charter school amendment is demonstrated by the “demand” that exists in Georgia for charter schools. You imply that it is this “demand” by parents that is driving this support for the amendment. I say the”demand” is coming in large part from out of state radical right-wing Republican individuals and groups who embrace the ideology that promotes privatizing traditional public schools and turning the education of our children over to the for profit, market driven entrepeneurs of capitalism. I submit as evidence for my position that one needs only to look at the list of out of state contributors to the pro-amendment Families for Better Public Schools. It includes the following individuals and companies:
Alice Walton (daughter of WalMart founder Sam Walton), Bentonville, AR: $250,000.00;
K-12, Inc. (a for-profit charter school company), Herndon, VA: $100,000.00;
Charter Schools USA ( a for-profit charter school company) Fort Lauderdale, FL: $50,000.00;
National Heritage Academies (a for-profit charter school company with 70 plus schools around the country including schools in Georgia), Grand Rapids, MI: $25,000.00;
J.C. Huizenga (the son of the founder of Waste Management Company and Blockbuster Videos and himself the founder of National Heritage Academies: $25,000.00;
Education Reform Now (a non-profit charter school advocacy group). New York, NY: $6, 000.00;
Students First (a pro-charter school advocacy non-profit), Sacramento, CA: $6,000.00;
Davidson Companies, Great Falls, MT: $5,000.00;
Edison Learning, (for-profit school company), Knoxville, TN: $2,000.00.
Why is Alice Walton, a notoriously hard right-wing, radical Republican idealogue billionaire supporting this Georgia constitutional amendment to the tune of a quarter of a million dollars? We should all be fully aware of her politics and idealology as we move toward the vote on this amendment. I haven’t mentioned the hard right-wing Republican-Libertarian billionaire Koch brothers whose Americans for Prosperity (AFP) is also in Georgia pushing for this amendment. What is their agenda? It doesn’t bode well for the future of traditional public schools in America.
Why are these out of state for-profit charter school companies and their “non-profit ” advocacy groups funneling huge amounts of money into Georgia to support this amendment? Easy answer: these for-profit charter school companies, the lawyers who represent them, the real estate firms that line up the real estate deals for the charter schools, all will do quite well financially. They all intend to profit from the passage of this amendment. The governor-appointed members of the charter school commission will see to it that they profit handsomely once the amendment passes. And the more charter schools we have in Georgia, siphoning off taxpayer funds that should be going to traditional public schools, the more we move in the direction of completely privatizing our public school systems! Why not? There is a huge amount of money to be made here and these out of state contributors to the astro-turf – so-called “Families For Better Public Schools” organization will be lining up at the trough to cash in.
Isn’t this what’s really going on here, Kyle? It’s all about money. It’s always all about money with this crowd.
So, Ky
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
1:10 pm
If you don’t like charters, don’t send your kid to one.
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
1:14 pm
“Hey Cons, only 12 days left to procure some ant-depressants.”
We WERE having a quite civil debate here, about schools.
md
October 25th, 2012
1:14 pm
Want to fix the schools? Then fine the parents……the non-caring parents won’t care until it hits THEM in the wallet.
JDW
October 25th, 2012
1:17 pm
“I don’t care if we need the charter school amendment or not. I’m voting for it to piss off the libtards.”
Nice…want to know why our country is struggling…it’s people that think like this.
mike
October 25th, 2012
1:17 pm
GREAT POST! bigbill. I saved it for the next time this subject comes up.
md
October 25th, 2012
1:21 pm
What’s the difference between a “for-profit” school that costs the taxpayers 20 million and a gov’t school that costs the taxpayers 20 million??
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
1:22 pm
No, JDW, the country is struggling because public schools are so pathetic that they’ve churned out enough failures to get your Idiot Messiah elected.
mike
October 25th, 2012
1:25 pm
md: “What’s the difference between a “for-profit” school that costs the taxpayers 20 million and a gov’t school that costs the taxpayers 20 million??”
The profit.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
1:28 pm
Republican Rape Advisory Chart
http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/republican-rape-advisory-chart
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
1:29 pm
bigbill: I agree with your point about private self-interest, and that is a HUGE caution flag, but I believe it goes beyond that as well. For decades the public schools have become increasingly more outlets for leftist/socialist brain-washing of our kids, and what we are seeing is in-part a reaction to that. But I do believe gaining State control to facilitate private access to public funds is the primary motivation.
As a conservative, I believe in a proper limited role of government, with local control preferred. Corporatocracy or whatever you want to call it is no better than liberal socialism; in the end it is corrupt if not outright tyranny.
Private education means sending your kids to a private school, or home schooling, NOT sending your tax dollars to the State to pay someone to compete with your local public schools (compete with yourself, essentially). This is so wrong-headed it makes me increasingly more nauseated.
md
October 25th, 2012
1:29 pm
And if the for profit is getting better results Mike, why should it matter?
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
1:29 pm
The difference is that teachers unions and associations are threatened by the thought that their outsized pay packages and gold-plated benefits might be brought back into line with the folks who pay the taxes.
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
1:32 pm
“Care to cite the number of school board officials kicked out of office by the voters in failing school systems, Real Athens?”
Easy. Two school board members were replaced in our last local election (2012) and we’ll choose another in this one (as a former board member was elected to the commission).
If you don’t like the way the constituents vote in Forsyth County, move. It’s not like it’s some liberal bastion. Don’t ask the state to fix local politics. Those are Marxist, Socialist, Chicago — possibly even Kenyan-style — solutions,
“the NEA … controls (sic) the education agenda in every state”
And your citation? Please don’t say Neil, Rush or Sean
If the NEA controls education in every state, why is it that Georgia is consistently ranked last? Would you complain if we were ranked first?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
1:33 pm
Yeah, we have such a big teachers union problem here in GA.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
1:34 pm
For decades the public schools have become increasingly more outlets for leftist/socialist brain-washing of our kids
examples? Or just making stuff up?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
1:35 pm
Md, the answer to your earlier question is that I can fire my for profit school if they fail.
I’m stuck with my public school no matter how bad they get.
mike
October 25th, 2012
1:36 pm
md: “And if the for profit is getting better results Mike, why should it matter?”
OK, let’s try this: let’s close down all public schools in Georgia and replace them with private for-profit schools. Then, all these problems we have now will magically disappear, right? It’s a panacea! Why didn’t we think of it before?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
1:38 pm
Real Athens, you said “replaced”.
Were they voted out, or did they leave willingly?
Kinda weren’t very specific
md
October 25th, 2012
1:40 pm
“OK, let’s try this: let’s close down all public schools in Georgia and replace them with private for-profit schools. Then, all these problems we have now will magically disappear, right? It’s a panacea! Why didn’t we think of it before?”
One would be amazed at what accountability can do for a business……..gov’t accountability? I don’t think that even exists………..
Rockerbabe
October 25th, 2012
1:42 pm
Even though I do not have any kids and none in school, I usually vote for the tax amendments for our public schools as I believe the kids should have what they need given that they are growing up in such a complicated world. However, all of the duplication and mistrust amendment #1 on charter schools represents, is more than I am willing to gol along with at this time. I listened to the panel discussion at the Atlanta Press Club on PBS last Sunday and found it to be enlightening. After some thought, I actually voted no on the amendment when I went to the polls on Tuesday. I think this charter school stuff has gotten out of hand and is really just a way to further denigrade the teachers in our community. Charter schools are not the answer and since there is little transparency with this amendment [as I understand its provisions], I think tax dollars need not be spent on such a secret society. As I have said in the past on post regarding public schools, if you really want to improve education, get the politicans out of the mix and turn the schools over to the local school board, the parents, teachers and principals. No good has ever come of politicians mixing up the public with their brand of “solutions”.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/reports-on-charter-schools-expose-new-problems/2011/10/31/gIQAcMye3M_blog.html
md
October 25th, 2012
1:43 pm
“I’m stuck with my public school no matter how bad they get.”
Which takes us back to the only option for those that can afford it…..move. Which is why we keep getting pockets of bad schools……..
And I really don’t see the cycle ending anytime soon, there will always be those that choose not to care or participate…….
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
1:45 pm
mike is afraid to answer the question. The reason he would oppose for-profit schools even if they did a better job for the same cost is that he, like Obozo and Marx, oppose free markets and think the government solution is the only solution.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
1:48 pm
I can fire my for profit school if they fail.
So, you move your kid from school to school until one day it dawns on you that maybe it isn’t the school that is at fault, maybe it is the child.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
1:49 pm
this isn’t a question of free markets. When there is an application process and a limited head count there is no free market in play.
mike
October 25th, 2012
1:50 pm
Lil B: “mike is afraid to answer the question. The reason he would oppose for-profit schools even if they did a better job for the same cost is that he, like Obozo and Marx, oppose free markets and think the government solution is the only solution.”
As I have stated and has been stated numerous times here today, I don’t really care if it’s a for-profit or public school, I don’t want my property taxes to go up because people are diverting their property taxes from the public school system.
No one, including yourself, have offered any real examples where a wholesale replacement of the public school system results in any marked improvement in outcomes.
Tonto
October 25th, 2012
1:52 pm
Is Marx opposing from the grave?
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
1:52 pm
“Real Athens, you said “replaced”. Were they voted out, or did they leave willingly? Kinda weren’t very specific.”
It’s all about semantics with you, isn’t it; always t least half of your straw-man arguments. Voted out.
Sorry you’re so obtuse:
ob·tuse/əbˈt(y)o͞os/
Adjective:
1. Annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.
2. Difficult to understand.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
1:53 pm
So, Finn, it would appear that the answer is MORE charter schools, given the additional demand.
Glad to see you’re on board.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
1:53 pm
Mike, economics 101.
When you move kids to a different school, you need less people at the old school, therefore your cost goes down accordingly.
sam
October 25th, 2012
1:55 pm
lets be honest here about the real problem with Gedorgia’s schools. we’ve been breeding dumb down here for hundreds of years. its gonna take a while to reverse that.
mike
October 25th, 2012
1:56 pm
Tiberius: “When you move kids to a different school, you need less people at the old school, therefore your cost goes down accordingly.”
You are wrong. The fixed costs, i.e. debt service, support staff, teachers, utilities, materials, etc. do not change
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
1:58 pm
Real athens, forgive me, but you libs are trained to tell half the story or just plain lie
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
1:58 pm
mike, you listed several variable costs (support staff, teachers, utilities, and materials) as fixed.
sneak peak into education
October 25th, 2012
1:59 pm
I have to question those that blame the unions for the “ills” of public education; the schools with the best scores are, for the most part, in states that are unionized. If the unions are such a huge obstacle to the successful education of children, how does that equate in your world? Also, look at Finland, top of the world when it comes to education; their entire workforce is unionized. Does that mean I am totally pro-union; it doesn’t matter. The facts speak for themselves.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
2:00 pm
So the numbers of teachers aren’t reduced when student loads are reduced, Mike?
Thanks for confirming how badly run government schools are.
DawgDad
October 25th, 2012
2:01 pm
mike: Personally, I’d expect to see Haverty’s schools in the affluent areas, Ikea or Rooms-to-go in the working class areas, and Pawn Shops in the poorer areas. But maybe I’m a class-bigot; I don’t think so, though. The root problem is how to deliver education in areas where significant numbers of students and parents either don’t care or don’t have the wherewithall to act in their self-interest.
You have to wonder about all the APS students who ran through the test-cheat mills. No doubt some learned of their own accord and initiative, but many likely cakewalked through and are now paying a price, and extracting a price from the rest of us.
Now is the time for Finn to ask for examples.
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
2:06 pm
No need to beg forgiveness. You can’t help it. You Dixiecrats just can’t figure out where to fit in these days … drink the tea? Side with the neocons? (but they’re so smart, and from the northeast)
It was so much easier when you could just walk around in sheets, wasn’t it.
mike
October 25th, 2012
2:06 pm
* On average, charter middle schools that hold lotteries are neither more nor less successful than traditional public schools in improving student achievement in reading and math. However, these averages mask wide variation across individual charter schools in their impacts.
* Study charter schools were more effective for lower income and lower achieving students and less effective for higher income and higher achieving students. In addition, charter schools in large urban areas had positive impacts on students’ achievement in math; those outside these large urban areas had negative impacts on achievement.
* Study charter schools did not significantly affect most of the other outcomes examined, including attendance, student behavior, and survey-based measures of student effort in school.
* These charter schools did positively affect levels of satisfaction with school among both students and their parents.
http://www.mathematica-mpr.com/newsroom/releases/2010/Charterschool_6_10.asp
Not quite the panacea you were looking for, huh?
mike
October 25th, 2012
2:08 pm
DawgDad: great analogy!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
2:09 pm
Finn’s too busy salivating over another Gloria Allred non-event.
Not that he’s ever focused, but he’s particularly unfocused today.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
2:09 pm
Panacea? That’s for the parents to decide.
It’s about parental choice.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
2:12 pm
Real Athens, I take my belief in the equality of mankind seriously. You crossed the line with your last comment
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
2:12 pm
“Panacea? That’s for the parents to decide.
It’s about parental choice.”
So give LOCAL parents the last word about THEIR local school systems — not a board of bureaucrats appointed by the “gub’mint”
Tonto
October 25th, 2012
2:13 pm
“When you move kids to a different school, you need less people at the old school, therefore your cost goes down accordingly.”
Depends on how many are moved and over what period of time?
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
2:13 pm
If you’re against charter schools, don’t vote for the amendment. You’ll be on the losing side. And when charter schools start popping up across the countryside, don’t complain and whine, just remember the words of your Idiot Messiah.
To paraphrase: “We won”
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
2:15 pm
Tibby:
I’ve been reading your posts for awhile. Just because you wrote it, doesn’t make it so.
Personally, I don’t believe you.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
2:15 pm
So give LOCAL parents the last word about THEIR local school systems
——————–
I’d rather give them the last word about their SCHOOL.
profroberts
October 25th, 2012
2:15 pm
There are many, many public schools here in Georgia along. We have heard about teachers cheating and so many other negative things about or surrounding public schools. Now what do you do about it, really! Can you improve on these schools…yes, it can be done if we stop creating more and more problems about public schools which many want private and now charters school…..well, they are all the same and no different. If you think your children are getting more than the other one, great, but that just don’t happen. When we have finance being the issues someone or somebody will always try to get the first millions for school that they children are in, private, charter etc, but we all suffer because somebody have to pay and if it is done right the money for public schools should take the first millions because all schools are public no matter what we want to called them. Stop making school more than others because they are not!
Tonto
October 25th, 2012
2:16 pm
“Finn’s too busy salivating over another Gloria Allred non-event.”
If her crap is anywhere close to Trump’s birther bs and yesterdays dud, she as usual will be in the same boat.
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
2:20 pm
Cons want to take away choice and yield it to the state and claim that it is about choice. And they believe their own con game.
mike
October 25th, 2012
2:20 pm
Let’s say we DO turn over our education system to private corporations. What do you think is the first thing they are going to do? You guessed it. They’re going to cut teachers’ salaries to increase profits. By cut, I don’t mean “trim,” I mean cut. Then, guess what? Teachers will leave the system and new teachers will be reluctant to enter the system. Is this what you really want? Remember, these are your children we are talking about. Do you want teachers who make a little more than what they can make at Wal-Mart teaching your children? Think about it.
Gail
October 25th, 2012
2:20 pm
I’m not against charter schools, just this amendment and the people who created it.
Part of the reason students drop out or take longer than 4 years to graduate is the state’s increased graduation requirements. We need to be realistic. All students do not need four years of math and science. Starting with the class of 2012, there is hardly any room in a high school student’s schedule for career exploration. In my county, a student must go to a satellite school for vo-tech options. All students are not college material.
State approved charter schools will not solve this problem.
JKL2
October 25th, 2012
2:22 pm
finn- Republican Rape Advisory Chart
What we really need to do is sit down and talk with the rapist. If we better understood their position, we would be able to reach an understanding with them.
Gail
October 25th, 2012
2:23 pm
Oh and I forgot to mention accreditation. This was brought up at a meeting I attended.
If the state charter schools are not accredited, graduates will not be eligible for Pell Grant and federal loans.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
2:26 pm
Real Athens, you have read NOTHING in my posts to come to that conclusion.
I suggest an apology is in order.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
2:29 pm
Mike you forget. If the charter school is failing I can fire them.
cc
October 25th, 2012
2:31 pm
Tiberius:
Pay “Real Athens” no mind. He is convinced that he is the savior of the racially oppressed and sees racists behind every tree, bush and leaf in the state. Although his status is self-appointed, he takes himself much more seriously than anyone else does.
A psychologist might believe him to be projecting due to his own racist attitudes . . .
bigbill
October 25th, 2012
2:32 pm
Dear Kyle: I am wondering if you might respond to my concern that support for the charter school amendment is not driven by parent concern, as you say in your piece above, but is in fact one more scheme to further the radical right-wing Republican goal of privatizing traditional public schools for the sake of profit. And the out of state (and many in-state) contributors to the astro-turf organization, Families For Better Schools, certainly supports my assertion that the hundreds of thousands of dollars in contributions from for- profit education companies and the hard right-wing Republican idealogues who support the elimination of traditional public schools and replacing them with for-profit schools (think Phoenix University – type elementary, middle, and high schools) supports my contention.
More evidence: the Georgia Chamber of Commerce contributed $10,000.00 to the astro-turf (meaning definitely-not-genuine-grass-roots) pro- charter school amendment group, Families For Better Public Schools. Gosh, the Georgia Chamber of Commerce, an organization which promotes business interest, business profits, and lobbies incessantly for pro-business issues whenever and wherever it can, now reveals that it is a big supporter of the Georgia charter school amendment. Their motto is: “We believe the state’s economy would best benefit from legislation that allows market force principals to work.” And that apparently applies to public schools because by making this $10,000.00 donation the Chamber aligns itself and its members with all the other business interests which made donations here and plan to profit from the passage of the amendment, namely the for-profit charter school industry, the for-profit private school industry and all the affiliated businesses which work with (and profit from) them. Believe me, this $10,000.00 contributions give lie to the Chamber’s assertions on its web site that it fully supports public schools in Georgia. Baloney! The Chamber doesn’t make move in any direction that is not focused on the profit streams of their members. And, Kyle, I’ll say it again, there are billions of dollars to be made in privatizing public education, billions to be made in “supporting legislation that allows market force principals to work.” And the Georgia Chamber of Commerce knows it. Your response?
mike
October 25th, 2012
2:37 pm
Tiberius: “If the charter school is failing I can fire them.”
Uh-hmmmh! And replace them with what?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
2:41 pm
A different charter school Mike.
mike
October 25th, 2012
2:42 pm
Tiberius: “A different charter school Mike.”
Now why didn’t I think of that? Tiberius’ superior intellect is the only thing I can attribute it to!
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
2:43 pm
Tibby:
All day, everyday, you flame people here with your intolerance and inferior intellect. Then you feign alarm and insult when someone calls you out for what you are:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot
Your carbon copy isn’t much different.
Grow a pair and get over yourselves.
JKL2
October 25th, 2012
2:44 pm
mike- Now why didn’t I think of that?
Liberals: We only believe in choice if your talking about abortion!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
2:49 pm
Prove it with FACTS, Real athens.
Otherwise you’re just another lying lib.
mike
October 25th, 2012
2:52 pm
Uh-oh! Irish ire is rising! (Sung to the tune of Irish Eyes are Smiling!)
curious
October 25th, 2012
2:54 pm
How do we know Charter Schools aren’t cheating? Any oversight planned?
Without oversight/regulation cheating will take place. All you have to do is look at Emory University. The temptation to “fudge” is too much for some.
MotherOfTwo
October 25th, 2012
3:09 pm
Kyle Wingfield
October 25th, 2012
10:22 am
You can’t lump all “local” school systems or boards with a few.
The charter school in Gwinnett (GSMST) is extraordinary; I know for a fact, because my child is a student. The school is diverse, the AP Exam and SAT scores are way above average.
The state didn’t have to force our superintendent or school board to create a high performing charter school; nor should it have a say in if we choose to allow certain charter schools to exist within our mist.
For those who say, that I am selecting the same old things, by choosing local school choice; I would suggest you go over to GSMST and see for yourself. Better yet, talk to the students and see where they are headed in the future.
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
3:11 pm
Tibby:
Facts? When have you let a fact get in the way of your proclamations and decrees?
You need look for proof no further than the five preceding pages on this blog today.
“Another lying lib”. You slay me.
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
3:16 pm
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
11:38 am
and
JKL2
October 25th, 2012
2:44 pm
Original thought? Or same pundit/master?
You decide.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
3:19 pm
How do we know Charter Schools aren’t cheating?
When you are teaching that Adam and Eve walked with the dinosaurs you don’t really need to worry about cheating. All non-scientific answers are the right answers.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
3:20 pm
Charter schools that don’t do a good job will go away, because the parents will pull their kids out. The demand for quality education will attract new charters. The government monopoly on public schools produces such poor results that we are forced to have this conversation. If they were getting the job done, we wouldn’t.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
3:22 pm
I’m afraid we’re going to have to ask for an example of a public charter that is teaching Adam and Eve walked with the dinosaurs, Finn.
mike
October 25th, 2012
3:26 pm
Tiberius walks out and Lil’ Barry walks in. Inquiring minds want to know.
BTW that government monopoly school(s) I attended did a pretty good job with me. But then I did a pretty good job with my schoolwork.
MotherOfTwo
October 25th, 2012
3:26 pm
Kyle,
I also support the people who run my local government, a lot more than, I approve of those who run our state. I can easily attend a school board meeting to vent my concerns; with many of these outside charter systems being run by organization outside of Georgia; I trust them a lot less to deal with my concerns.
Also, if there truly are as many people locally who disapprove of their local school systems/boards. I would think they could have taken over their local schools.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
3:29 pm
“Finn’s too busy salivating over another Gloria Allred non-event.”
Yeah, tell that to Herman Cain and Meg Whitman. She helped derail both of their campaigns.
mike
October 25th, 2012
3:31 pm
You know what? Let’s just take this to its logical extreme. Let’s just do away with government and all of its institutions. No legislature, no police, no schools, no nothing. Then, you’re on your own. Educate your children the best you know how. And, if you make bad choices like having your job shipped to China, and can’t afford to educate your children, well that’s just too bad. Survival of the fittest. Ayn would be so proud of me.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
3:32 pm
tell that to Herman Cain and Meg Whitman. She helped derail both of their campaigns.
————————
Where is JDW to decry “that kind of thinking” as the reason for our national decline?
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
3:35 pm
Why would I educate my own child, when I can take a job that allows me to pay someone to do a better job of it than I can? Should we all grow our own vegetables, mill our own wheat, and tend our own cattle too? That would make zero sense, but then mike previously admitted he’s a product of public schooling.
RAMZAD
October 25th, 2012
3:37 pm
Probably; the most curious variable in the Amendment One controversy is African Americans.
We have a long and sometimes bloody history of distrust for local authority. The local police, zoning board, chamber of commerce, PTA, local judiciary, and local school board. We have never been shy about taking matters to the state or federal constitutional deliberation or administrative adjudication, because we have always felt that local authority was up to no good, and frequently we were right- until this nonsensical switch-aroo.
It does not make sense, because African American children are the most likely to be failed by local public academic systems- smallest SAT scores, smallest graduation rates, smallest amounts of academic scholarships, smallest matriculation to college, most likely to wind up in an alternative school, most likely to be murdered during school pursuits, most likely to graduate to prison, most likely to be a baby momma. You name it and we are going to be distinguished for being the worst at what local public school systems say they do or offer. So; you would think African Americans would want to run to the state for refuge. Not this time!
Selfishness; a treasured classic in our race, is at work here. I will explain. Education is one of the few endeavors where African Americans have a foothold. It it not medicine. We are not regularly doctors. It is not the judiciary. We are not frequently lawyers. It is not science and engineering, because we are not frequently scientists, but every African American alive knows a black teacher or school administrator. The public school house is an African American preserve.
So, in order to stay on this preserve African Americans will go to the mat for this local control we always abhor- this time. It is not concern for our students. We were willing to cheat our own out of an education to keep our rank in and our checks from the school house. So, for African Americans, this has nothing to do with the quality of education for black children. The waves of “local control” cheating scandals in predominantly African American districts all over the country proved that eminently well.
It is about the loss of control that will be a necessary condition of passage of Amendment One that blacks fear. We saw what happened to the incumbent mayor and to Michelle Rhee, DC School Superintendent when African American school hegemony was challenged in Washington DC about four years ago. We saw what happened in Chicago last month when attempts were made to tie teacher advancement to student performance.
Amendment One is necessary to break this African American dictatorship in local public school control. We have seen the results of this dictatorship, and it is horrible.
East Lake Ira
October 25th, 2012
3:40 pm
Coming soon to GA if this passes:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/25/14698079-500000-payment-to-failed-charter-school-principal-sparks-outrage?lite
mike
October 25th, 2012
3:43 pm
“Orange County School District officials say they were unaware of the principal’s payment because the school isn’t required to report it under Florida’s charter school law, according to the Sentinel.”
From the article at 3:40
Well, now, this is very interesting. Don’t have to report payments under the Charter School Law. What’s not to like?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
3:45 pm
Why would I educate my own child
Why would society allow you to breed?
mike
October 25th, 2012
3:47 pm
“The law is very clear that school boards cannot put limits or control how a charter school spends their money, including payouts like this” Sublette told the Sentinel. He called the payment “a shameful abuse of public tax dollars” and “immoral and unethical.”
Charter schools are privately run public schools with fewer regulations than traditional public schools. Charters, like public schools in Florida, receive state money based on student population.
This is what we need here in Georgia.
East Lake Ira
October 25th, 2012
3:50 pm
Start a school, fail, take home a cool half million dollars.
Where do I sign up?
getalife
October 25th, 2012
3:50 pm
The gop attack on education is working on the uneducated voters voting gop.
All children left behind was another w failure and if the gop proposes it, it is always a bad idea for the people.
md
October 25th, 2012
3:51 pm
“All non-scientific answers are the right answers.”
And what’s the scientific answer to the beginning of evolution??
I do believe it is also a belief……….
mike
October 25th, 2012
3:51 pm
Ira: that site went straight to the bookmarks.
Ignorant, imbecilic Republicans banging the drum for this kind of idiocy. Boggles the mind.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
3:52 pm
Actually, No Child Left A Behind was a W/ Ted Kennedy effort.
W and the Cons just decided to not fund it.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
3:53 pm
Why would society allow you to breed?
—————-
“Society” didn’t–superior genetics did. Didn’t you study Darwin in your public school?
mike
October 25th, 2012
3:57 pm
Lil’ Barry:”Didn’t you study Darwin in your public school?”
No, Lil’ Barry, I went to a Christian school-ah and the abomination-ah of Evolution-ah warn’t allowed to be taught.
cellophane
October 25th, 2012
3:58 pm
Kyle- Charter Schools USA is one of the big corporations bankrolling the pro-amendment campaign. They have two special charter schools in Georgia. The one in Coweta County has 9 percent of its students qualifying for free and reduced lunch in a county where the average is over 40 percent; the other school is in Cherokee, where the charter school has 16% of students on free and reduced lunch rate in a county averaging 32%. By not providing transportation, only providing applications and information in a single language (English), they guarantee a certain demographic– and it is not low income. Parents are required to volunteer, but you can buy your way out of the commitment with extra school supplies and other donations, neither of which works well for a struggling family.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
3:59 pm
Didn’t you study Darwin in your public school?
That came after we learned about our magic underwear. My underwear’s magical ability is self-cleaning.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
3:59 pm
Too late, mike, you admitted earlier that you went to government schools. Liars need good memories, and yours isn’t so good if you can’t even remember what you’ve posted here on page 6!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
3:59 pm
Almost 1.4 Million Pledge For Jesus as Write-In Candidate in 2012, as Disgruntled Evangelicals Vent Their Anti-Mormon, Anti-Obama Ire
http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/almost-14-million-pledge-jesus-write-candidate-2012-disgruntled-evangelicals-vent
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 25th, 2012
4:02 pm
My underwear’s magical ability is self-cleaning.
——————
Your underwear is disposable. That’s not the same as self-cleaning.
mike
October 25th, 2012
4:03 pm
Lil’ Barry: “Too late, mike, you admitted earlier that you went to government schools.”
Lil’ Barry, I just can’t slip anything past that steel-trap mind of yours. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 25th, 2012
4:04 pm
Your underwear is disposable.
With Power Rangers!
Bruno
October 25th, 2012
4:05 pm
I don’t have a dog in the fight since I don’t have any kids, but I just voted in approval of the charter school amendment.
Count 1 vote for Romney as well, and 1 vote to continue banning Sunday sales of alcohol.
Dusty
October 25th, 2012
4:05 pm
I’m so tired of hearing about this , I am about ready to say “Close all the schools and throw the kiddies out in the woods!” They’d probably learn how to survive better than how to pass a crooked exam with a crooked teacher in a crooked school system with crooked parents/singles directing them. .
I am really really tired of indifferent parents or singles who expect their children to thrive while being raised like weeds. Charter schools wont be any different. There will still be dumbed down children being raised with boyfriends instead of husbands, siblings with all different “fathers”, life with no moral instruction, no manners, no good examples and none of it the children’s fault.
Send the parents to school. That’s who needs it. They obviously missed “it” when they should have gotten it. Make THEM go to school.
Of course, this is not a real expectation. A cure for dumb parents! But it is no different from expecting underprivileged children to come to school ready to learn. Charter schools will pull out the few smart ones and leave the rest behind. That may be smart for some but it is not fair for the helpless..
Who will open the first Charter school for PARENTS???
Real Athens
October 25th, 2012
4:23 pm
Dusty:
Your stereotypical, stereotyping, aside – I think you might have just found your calling.
mike
October 25th, 2012
4:27 pm
Here’s what happens when “faith healers” have differences between themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuQ4SJWECBY
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
4:49 pm
Real Athens = race pimp.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 25th, 2012
4:50 pm
Sorry.
Lying race pimp.
mike
October 25th, 2012
4:51 pm
Well Tiberius it’s good that you could join us again. I guess Kyle doesn’t mind those kind of personal attacks as long as it’s “one of his” doing it. Do you Kyle?
Numbers-R-US
October 25th, 2012
4:53 pm
Tiberius – pulling the tail of the left AND right
Sorry. Lying race pimp.
Whatever.
Dusty
October 25th, 2012
4:55 pm
Real Athens
I found my “calling” a long time ago and it is not an atypical fractious intelligentsia.such as you present.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 25th, 2012
4:56 pm
3 oh won!
mike
October 25th, 2012
4:56 pm
Tiberius: what are you talking about?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 25th, 2012
4:57 pm
11 days, 11 hours and 1 minute until this long, stupid, disgusting national nightmare is ova.
buh bye obozo.
JDW
October 25th, 2012
5:04 pm
@mike…do you really think he knows?
JDW
October 25th, 2012
5:08 pm
@Bruno…while I think you are wrong, I can understand your vote for Romney and the amendment…what I don’t get is how a vote to ban alchol sales on Sunday squares with that whole personal freedom, gubment is bad mantra.
JDW
October 25th, 2012
5:13 pm
@LBB…”I’m afraid we’re going to have to ask for an example of a public charter that is teaching Adam and Eve walked with the dinosaurs,”
You need to open that closed mind of yours and learn what has happened in other states that went down the Charter Schools road…
http://www.myneworleans.com/New-Orleans-Magazine/June-2012/Charters-Vouchers-Creationism/
JDW
October 25th, 2012
5:18 pm
@LBB…”Where is JDW to decry “that kind of thinking” as the reason for our national decline?”
Gloria? Not my favorite she kind of reminds me of Andrew Briebart except she is usually right.
As for the goods on Romney, anyone with any sense already knows Romney has perjured himself on the value of companies…that’s how he got a $100 million 401k.
md
October 25th, 2012
5:44 pm
“Send the parents to school. That’s who needs it. They obviously missed “it” when they should have gotten it. Make THEM go to school. ”
I’ve been advocating that for a long time. If one chooses (and it is a choice) to drop out of the taxpayer funded opportunity program called education and then subsequently finds themselves in a different line for assistance, then dropping back into the education program should be a condition of said assistance………
One shouldn’t be allowed to not participate when they are offered an opportunity and then turn around and ask for more generosity………
@@
October 25th, 2012
6:10 pm
Getalife:
All children left behind was another w failure and if the gop proposes it, it is always a bad idea for the people.
It continues under Obama, only it takes on a different form:
President Obama said that the waivers were necessary because the law was “driving the wrong behaviors, from teaching to the test to federally determined, one-size-fits-all interventions.” But what neither the president nor Secretary Duncan admits is that Duncan’s mandates will promote even more teaching to the test, while posing a heavy fiscal burden on the states at a time when they are strapped for cash.
[snip]
The states that won a waiver must agree to accept the Common Core State Standards, a national curriculum in mathematics and English language arts developed by nongovernment groups that has yet to be field-tested anywhere; they must agree to evaluate teachers and principals based in large part on the test scores of their students; and they must agree to intervene forcefully in the lowest-performing schools. At the same time, the Obama administration is promoting merit pay, so teachers whose students get higher test scores will be paid more.
The sum of all these changes means that test scores will matter even more in the states with waivers than in the states oppressed by NCLB’s heavy-handed regulations. Teachers will be evaluated based on whether their students’ scores rise or fall. Testing experts agree that gains in student scores will be smallest for teachers of children with disabilities and children who are English language learners and probably greatest for those teaching children in relatively affluent districts. In other words, those who teach children with the greatest needs are likeliest to get a bad evaluation and eventually fired. This will add to the already high level of teacher turnover in the neediest districts.
[snip]
One thing that the waivers will not end is teaching to the test, even though President Obama said in his State of the Union that teachers should stop doing it. With so many districts and states endorsing merit pay (at the Obama administration’s urging), teachers who want a bonus will be compelled to teach to the test. And with the careers of teachers and principals hinging on test scores, teachers who want to remain employed will be compelled to teach to the test. To avoid having their school fall into the pit of those marked for drastic “intervention” or closing, schools will concentrate as never before on teaching to the test.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/10/obama-grants-waivers-to-nclb-and-makes-a-bad-situation-worse.html
cc
October 25th, 2012
6:40 pm
Dusty:
“. . . it is not an atypical fractious intelligentsia.such as you present.”
You’re my hero!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 25th, 2012
7:03 pm
Is Kyle gonna do a World Series blog?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 25th, 2012
7:04 pm
bookman – The Urinal’s E.J. Dionne wannabe.
Tonto
October 25th, 2012
7:11 pm
I Report
Guess you were banned, huh?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 25th, 2012
7:17 pm
Tonto – So I didn’t measure up to E.J.’s standards, I’m kinda curious, should I be concerned?
Moquanisha
October 25th, 2012
7:19 pm
The margin of victory for Amendment 1 will be comparable to, or even greater than, the margin of defeat in the TSPLAT referendum.
People are simply tired of government inefficiency and inertia, especially where it affects our children. Charter schools hold out the hope of making things better. I believe most of the people lamenting how Amendment 1 will be the EOTWAWKI are in the public education racket; can’t really blame them, their livelihoods are on the line.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 25th, 2012
7:22 pm
If I hadn’t been banned by kookman, I would feel as though I failed somehow.
Tonto
October 25th, 2012
7:22 pm
I report
Seeing that you were crying about it @ 7:04 for what I assume was a ban sometime ago, you tell me.
Act like an adult, you don’t get banned. You didn’t get banned just because you had a different opinion. Acting like a baby and throwing fits was more like it.
Tonto
October 25th, 2012
7:27 pm
I report
Just let it go. You will feel better about yourself. You failed over there, but you have the ability to succeed here or elsewhere.
Don’t hold a grudge for a decision that was made due to your actions.
Man up and move on.
You can do this if you try.
Good luck and godspeed.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 25th, 2012
7:31 pm
Apparently, Tonto is new to this.
I had hardcore libs complaining about my banning. They liked what I had to say more than they cared about miss kookman’s hurt feelings.
Just sayin…
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 25th, 2012
7:33 pm
Mitt Romney’s campaign announced this morning that the GOP ticket and the Republican National Committee raised $111.8 million between Oct. 1 and Oct. 17.
A 111 million reasons to see promise for America’s future.
Laprincey
October 25th, 2012
7:34 pm
“You didn’t get banned just because you had a different opinion.”
OK I’m going to throw a flag on that one.
Don’t know what I Report did to get blackballed, maybe he deserved it. But I’ve done this long enough to notice that some of the blogmeisters, especially the lefties, like for everyone to be on the same page. They notice if you disagree and sometimes will use a slight foot fault as justification for banishment.
Tonto
October 25th, 2012
7:36 pm
I report
Act like an adult when you are in another person’s house.
If you are unable to do so blogspot.com might be where you need to go.
You can set the rules and parameters as well as who blogs ad who doesn’t.
“just sayin………….”
Stop the tears and let it go.
You can do this man. I know you can.
Have a wonderful evening and work on your grudges and resentment, it currently shines as bright as the north star.
Hillbilly D
October 25th, 2012
7:42 pm
Me and IRYW sometimes agree and many times disagree but I saw far worse things done at the other place than what I saw him do and nary a peep was heard from the powers that be.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 25th, 2012
7:43 pm
Kyle – Notice how the libs escalate these petty grudges of theirs? I understand that we are dealing with the intellectual equivalent of a mere child here and therefore I refuse to participate, but will they not come back tomorrow as though I caused the whole kerfuffle? I agree that you are forced to represent the Conservative and adult constituency, unlike kookman, but don’t you just occasionally wanna let them have it?
I don’t mind being your attack dog, should you find a need for one…
Tonto
October 25th, 2012
7:56 pm
“I don’t mind being your attack dog, should you find a need for one…”
Now that was funny. You could do stand up as a moonlighting gig……..
I’m being serious
cc
October 25th, 2012
7:58 pm
I Report:
If you were indeed banned by Bookie-man, I can only offer my congratulations! You probably shouldn’t have been there anyway. Always remember: you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas!
@@
October 25th, 2012
8:03 pm
I’ve lost track of all those jay has banned. The libs get a temporary vacation. Conservatives are permanently retired.
I’m enjoying mine!
schnirt
cc
October 25th, 2012
8:10 pm
@@:
I’m almost positive that I could also be banned by Bookman, if I ever blogged there. Geez, that’s a scary place, though!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 25th, 2012
8:15 pm
cc – I always put on my Advantage flea collar before I logged in.
And sprayed with Lysol when I logged out.
cc
October 25th, 2012
8:18 pm
I Report:
Smart moves!
yuzeyurbrane
October 25th, 2012
8:35 pm
Kyle, it is cherry-picking because you have picked a few charter school families who are not a representative sample to make your point. The rest of your argument sounds like an argument for vouchers, which is not at issue here. I believe that is what you and other proponents are ultimately pointed to and would be happy to have that discussion. Simply not germane now.
@@
October 25th, 2012
8:42 pm
Strassel: A Chronic Case of Obamnesia
Obama flipp’n and a-flopp’n all ovah da place.
schnirt
My apologies if it’s already been posted. I’ve been busy.
teaching taxpayer
October 25th, 2012
8:51 pm
Make the board that hears denied charter schools’ appeals an ELECTED board, not a board APPOINTED from among the Governor’s cronies, and I’ll vote for it. If this board has the authority to spend TAXPAYER dollars, it should be accountable to the taxpayers. This amendment takes choice away from VOTERS and gives it to unelected bureaucrats. Kyle, why are you betraying this basic conservative principle?
@@
October 25th, 2012
8:57 pm
For Hillbilly if he’s around.
Clayton County high schools has a (maybe more) vocational class(es)? I knew one of our charter schools did, but I had no idea others did.
LOVEJOY — Lovejoy High School senior Marcus Gooch and his classmates begged last week and tried to convince Price Jacobs, the school’s construction teacher, to reconsider heading into retirement next month.
They enjoyed having him as a teacher, so they didn’t want him to go, said Gooch. He said the seniors were especially saddened to hear Jacobs was retiring because they’d been with him for four years. After Nov. 30, however, he will no longer be there to teach them about foundations and roof trusses.
http://www.news-daily.com/news/2012/oct/22/price-less-leadership/
Kewl!
Rupurt
October 25th, 2012
9:04 pm
“I don’t mind being your attack dog, should you find a need for one…”
Tough bark behind a keyboard
Sick em
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 25th, 2012
9:07 pm
These pestilent Detroit people just need to go ahead on and choke, like we all know is gonna happen.
But then again, that would mean that the San Franfreakins will win, so I’m open to suggestions.
Still in all, I don’t even know why Detroit exists.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 25th, 2012
9:11 pm
I see that Rupurt hasn’t been intellectually slaughtered yet but when she’s ready, be sure to get back with me.
The bark ain’t worse than the bite.
Don't Tread
October 25th, 2012
9:27 pm
“if the gop proposes it, it is always a bad idea for the people.”
This coming from the guy who said we should revise our standards of treason to be more like Russia’s (where any criticism of the people in power will soon be considered “treason”).
I hate to rain on your Party, but the First Amendment still stands despite your best attempts to kill it.
Rupurt
October 25th, 2012
11:57 pm
“The bark ain’t worse than the bite”
whew………. tough kid
catlady
October 26th, 2012
6:55 am
Anyone care to guess what percentage of charter schools now open serve mostly low income, minority kids? And, should this pass, anyone care to guess what percentage of charter schols this commission would authorize would serve low income, minority kids? My guess would be less than 20%. ‘Cause that is where the money is–upper income kids are most likely to do well, to show positive “results” for the charter company. Think,, people!
And, anyone care to guess who would be named to the charter commission? I would bet we would see mostly friends and family of our current “leaders,” as well as large contributors to their elections. They would, of course, be “highly qualified” by either their bloodlines, friendship patterns, or history of financial support!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 26th, 2012
7:00 am
Looks like Gloria Allred’s October Surprise fizzled out:
From Howie Carr’s column in the Boston Herald: “Marty (Baron, editor of the Boston Globe), when did you realize you were out on a limb? Was it when you started reading all those punctuation-challenged tweets from someone named “Maureen Stemberg” at the Huffington Post about the Romneys and Mormons:
“One word: Deplorable!… These people are not healthy. Another word: SCARY!!”
(I guess at the Globe it’s as fashionable to hate Mormons as it is to despise Catholics.)
“Yet even in Biz he only has a very small circle of friends. I have seen that side of him about 15 years ago. He & She were at my home for a Xmas party… I think he has a terrible time with dealing with the 47%. I truly do believe he has a fear and dislike for anyone who has less than 99,000,000! He just can’t relate and obviously queen ann is the same.”
And they wanted a gag order lifted on this petty witch?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 26th, 2012
7:01 am
“My guess would be less than 20%.”
And you make up your mind on “guesses”, catlady?
Certainly explains the election of Obama.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 26th, 2012
7:53 am
With more than 40 million Americans on food stamps, welfare is the fastest-growing portion of the budget under Obama. Food stamp usage is up a staggering 46% and the cost of the program has increased by 72%. Over the next four years, the President is preparing to increase spending on these programs to enable the government to increase benefits and provide for an increasing share of the population.
Can you say Zimbabwe?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 26th, 2012
8:01 am
Gamblers and election winners:
In 2008, 90 percent of gamblers correctly forecast an Obama victory. They were also on the money with 48 of 50 states. Gamblers’ success in this arena is nothing new. In presidential races beginning in 1896, the New York Times, Sun, and World provided daily betting quotes. The papers’ sources were bookies who had agents at every stump and whistle-stop to gather intel and quantify popular sentiment. Between 1884 and 1940, the bettors erred on just one of sixteen elections, Wilson’s 1916 upset of Hughes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-thomson/how-gamblers–historys-mo_b_2011534.html
cc
October 26th, 2012
8:37 am
Tib, Gloria was “all red” in the face when her little surprise detonated prematurely. I guess you might call her a “suicide boo-boo”!
Stewie
October 26th, 2012
8:49 am
Why do libs buy into Obama’s lies? Because he does it so fancifully.
Obama’s fanciful claim that Congress ‘proposed’ the sequester
Rated a WHOPPER with 4 Pinnochios!
He’s the dems’ fancy man.
cc
October 26th, 2012
9:11 am
Stewie:
Obama has done nothing but lie throughout his political career. He has become very accomplished at lying from his years of experience. Absent a news media who will call him out and who, in fact, enable him, he continues to speak half-truths and lies. Unfortunately, there are many who are either unwilling or intellectually unable to recognize him as the liar he is.
sneak peak into education
October 26th, 2012
9:44 am
For all the proponent of charter schools, especially Kyle; here is piece on a principal of a Florida charter school who paid them self $500,000 when the school FAILED. This is what we can look forward to with the passage of this amendment. If you think that the students will be educated more efficiently you are wrong; yes, less money will go to them but the admin and management companies will make sure they get their pound of flesh.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/education/os-charter-principal-500000-payout-20121024,0,6968446.story
Real Athens
October 26th, 2012
10:00 am
Awwww.
“I found my “calling” a long time ago and it is not an atypical fractious intelligentsia.such as you present.”
So focused on the definition of those big words that you missed the usage part on the same page. LOL. Typical.
Real Athens
October 26th, 2012
10:05 am
Read about Bobby Jindal’s (GOP poster boy and opportunist) education experiment in Louisiana. Keep in mind, before Katrina the population of NOLA topped 1.6 million. At the last census it was slightly over 400,000.
http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/2012/10/what_will_the_education_market.html
Real Athens
October 26th, 2012
10:24 am
Another middle right pundit (here in Georgia) bemoans this boondoggle and the ignorance of the state legislators who support it.
http://onlineathens.com/opinion/2012-10-25/yarbrough-charter-amendment-not-about-schools
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 26th, 2012
10:39 am
I see the lying race pimp is back on today.
cc
October 26th, 2012
10:51 am
Tiberius:
Galloway must have run the “lying race pimp” off his blog. I believe he will find the bloggers here too much of a challenge. His somewhat limited attributes will not pove to serve him well here.
cc
October 26th, 2012
10:53 am
“pove” should read “prove”
Sorry for the typo . . .
East Lake Ira
October 26th, 2012
11:05 am
The smugness you cons display would be laughable but there are sooooo many of y’all it’s just sad.
If Mitt wins, the poor are done.
Who do you think they’ll blame?
You. And, you’ll deserve it.
I’ll just sit back and laugh at you getting beatdowns etc…
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 26th, 2012
11:16 am
Looks like the lying part for Real Athens is certainly accurate. Yesterday’s response to me: “Care to cite the number of school board officials kicked out of office by the voters in failing school systems, Real Athens?”
Easy. Two school board members were replaced in our last local election (2012) and we’ll choose another in this one (as a former board member was elected to the commission).”
Seems as if Real Athens doesn’t really know what he’s talking about, or lying again when caught.
According to their Athens Patch website, these are the candidates who qualified for the 2012 primary:
Clarke County Bd. of Education:
District 2: Vernon Payne (incumbent)
District 4: Carl Parks
District 6: Charles Worthy (incumbent)
District 8: David Knox Huff (incumbent)
Note only one non-incumbent. That’s because the incumbent chose to run for county commissioner. Another resigned abruptly due to health reasons.
So only ONE board member was replaced in the primary, and it was because she ran for higher office. The other board member being replaced is due to voluntary resignation.
So Real Athen’s contention that Clarke County votes out their school board members is completely and totally false, and proves my comments that school board members rarely, if ever leave at the hands of voters.
Real Athens
October 26th, 2012
11:26 am
Tool. Can you read? I said the 2010 elections.
Real Athens
October 26th, 2012
11:26 am
News flash: The 2012 elections haven’t happened yet
Real Athens
October 26th, 2012
11:29 am
Whoops! I did write 2012. My apologies I meant 2010 as the 2012 elections HAVEN’T OCCURRED YET.
I can admit an error.
Race pimp? Hilarious.
Real Athens
October 26th, 2012
11:31 am
cc: I haven’t been run out of anyplace. I also haven’t changed “my name” here to further mask my anonymity as you have.
For Public Schools
November 1st, 2012
2:16 am
Just reading the comments from both sides has convince me more to vote no for charter schools. If you say you are for students, be there for all of them. The good students and the not so good students. My suggestion is to create alternative schools. If there is a student that don’t want to learn, send them there. If they don’t want to learn there, send them to a vocational school to learn a trade. (Not forgetting the not so good students). Remove them from the good students, because when you get students together with the students that want to learn, test scores will increase. Also, find an advocate from each school district to gather data on what is working for other school districts and work together to implement those strategies. PROPERTY TAXES has always been my concern. Will PROPERTY TAXES go towards public or charter or both? Will increase? decrease? or remain the same. If they remain the same. How will they be allocated?