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© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
331 comments Add your comment
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 24th, 2012
9:07 am
Mike, in a worldwide market you can’t pay someone $50,000/yr to assembly box fans. If you inflate the price of the fan to cover the taxes, wages, insurance, raw materials, etc, the fan costs more than it is worth. The Indonesians, Indians, or Chinese will have a fan on the shelf next to yours selling for half the price of the US made fan.
Outsourcing creates wealth in those countries, rather than destroy wealth as you say. People move into the urban areas from the farms and go to making $6000 per year as opposed to previously making $600/yr. Yes, folks in the US will not and should not accept those wages, but we have to get past that. We don’t like in a guaranteed salary world or a guaranteed standard of living world. If we impose that the rest of the world will leave us in the dust. Our challenge is to find a way to get some of the wealth created in other countries and bring it back home. We need to produce things that we can export and make a profit on, it is the only way, I am afraid. We have to be smarter, more efficient, and more creative than the rest of the world, or learn to live with a lower standard of living I’m afraid.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 24th, 2012
9:11 am
What is the big difference in Romney evolving on abortion and Obama evolving on same sex marriage? I could post contradictory quotes from Obama on same sex marriage.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 24th, 2012
9:16 am
“I wonder where the key word “funding” is hidden in those statements, which do not even remotely refer to the question of funding.”
MarkV, we’ve already talked about this. Your capacity to read beyond the sound bite level is rather disturbing.
Most intelligent people actually read position papers, work their way through tedious but necessary transcripts, and look for layers of thought when figuring out who they are going to vote for.
Not cherry-picked and parsed sound bites.
This link is especially appropriate for you and JDW:
http://news.yahoo.com/people-arent-smart-enough-democracy-flourish-scientists-185601411.html
I’d suggest you read it, but since it can’t fit on a bumper sticker your eyes will be glazing over within a minute at best. But it was written with you libs in mind.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 24th, 2012
9:24 am
but that’s why I’m here; because I have no friends cause I have a nasty habit of talking down to everyone – no matter who they are.
fixed yer typo. You’re welcome.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 24th, 2012
9:27 am
LOL, Rafe. Romney isn’t evolving on abortion. Romney beliefs depend on who his audience is at any given moment.
Do you not watch the debates? One belief is given in person on the stump to the conservative base. The Romney on national television, on the other hand, is more of a centrist who accepts that he has 100% of his base’s vote so they should ignore him at the moment.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 24th, 2012
9:32 am
Liberal heads are about to explode.
Rasmussen has Romney and Obama tied 48%-48% today in Ohio.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 24th, 2012
9:35 am
“I have a nasty habit of talking down to everyone”
Well, it’s true I do not suffer fools gladly, Finn.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 24th, 2012
9:49 am
Finn, I can say the same about the Mistake. On the debates he is a centrist, who talks tough on foreign policy, and actually mentions the deficit and fiscal responsibility. On the stump, he is all about class warfare, tax the rich, never mentions the deficit or debt, never mentions foreign policy, and complains about how unfair America is. When he is overseas, he apologizes for American action and gives the impression of an appeaser. When he talks to Wall Street, he sounds like a wealthy industrialist or a banker. A man for all seasons, is Barry.
So, the choice is a flawed candidate or a flawed President. You have an employee at work, who despite much counseling and instruction is just not getting the job done after four years and his action is harming the company’s prospects. First decision, should be to let him go. Then you worry about who you hire to replace him. The Marlins decided that they just could not get better anytime soon with Ozzie Guillen, did they worry about finding someone else, before they fired him. Nope, fire him and then start looking. We have a candidate who has demonstrated his excellent ability to be successful at anything he has tried. A great candidate on tap, no need to tarry with the firing.
MarkV
October 24th, 2012
9:53 am
Tiberius @ 9:16 am
Tiberius, since your intellectual capacity is not sufficient to comprehend the meaning of two simple, declarative statements, I am not interested in your “arguments.”
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 24th, 2012
9:54 am
The Romney on national television, on the other hand, is more of a centrist who accepts that he has 100% of his base’s vote so they should ignore him at the moment.
Yep, someone I heard yesterday agreed with you. He said it looked like Romney had his base sewed up and was working on the undecideds. He said it looked like Obama was trying to rally his base. He said if you are worried about your base, at this late point, you are in trouble. Yes Romney sounded Presidential, Barry sounded like a candidate trying to make up a big support deficit.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 24th, 2012
9:59 am
MarkV
Stalking off mad, just because you are losing the argument?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 24th, 2012
10:08 am
“I am not interested in your “arguments.”
Of course you’re not, MarkV.
Arguments require information (which you refuse to accept) and intelligence (which you do not possess).
MarkV
October 24th, 2012
10:10 am
Rafe Hollister @9:11 am: “ What is the big difference in Romney evolving on abortion and Obama evolving on same sex marriage? I could post contradictory quotes from Obama on same sex marriage.
The big difference is that Obama openly revealed the state of his belief and how it has been changing. Romney, on the other hand, was pro-life when he stated his “belief” that abortion should be safe and legal in this country, reversed that “belief” when it suited better his political chances in the primaries, and now is making another “modification” of his position.
Winky Dinky Dog
October 24th, 2012
10:11 am
“but that’s why I’m here; to correct your deficiencies in knowledge across a whole spectrum of issues.”
Translation: I have already any friends, no hobbies and have nothing better to do, except play blog bully because it makes me feel better about myself.
MarkV
October 24th, 2012
10:13 am
Rafe Hollister@ 9:59 am: “Stalking off mad, just because you are losing the argument?”
Losing an argument? Only in your dreams. Are you another one who lacks either the intellectual capacity to comprehend those statements in question, or the integrity to admit their conflict?
JDW
October 24th, 2012
10:15 am
@Tiberius…”The key word you and the mindless myrmidons on the left continue to omit in the discussion about Romney’s stance on abortion is “funding”.”
O’ Dear the Grand Poohbah of Tiberiusville (an alternate reality where Tiberius is ALWAYS right) has spoken….please dear sir could you point out the missing word for me?
“In a televised debate, Romney was asked “If Roe vs. Wade was overturned and Congress passed a federal ban on all abortions and it came to your desk, would you sign it, yes or no?”"
“Let me say it. I’d be delighted to sign that bill,” Romney said.
http://www.pnj.com/article/20121019/ELECTIONS/121019013/PolitiFact-guide-Mitt-Romney-abortion?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE
JDW
October 24th, 2012
10:22 am
@Rafe…”What is the big difference in Romney evolving on abortion and Obama evolving on same sex marriage? I could post contradictory quotes from Obama on same sex marriage.”
The difference is an evolution along the same line of thought vs. an about face.
In Obama’s case he moved from supporting same sex Civil Unions to Gay Marriage. That is not an about face but simply a stronger position.
In Romney’s case he went from a “belief that abortion should be safe and legal in this country” to happy to sign a federal ban on all abortion. That is an about face.
Now we are keying on abortion because it is an important issue but Romney has done so many about faces he should have a chiropractor on staff to treat whiplash.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 24th, 2012
10:25 am
I think the liberal’s obsession with getting Obama re-elected all boils down to avoiding embarrassment.
They went out on a limb by electing the least qualified person to ever run for President from one of the two major parties based on the dumbest slogan ever – “Hope and Change”
Now, despite 4 years of failure after failure, and a record even the President himself hasn’t run on, they’re facing the realization that the rest of America has finally caught on to this charade. They see a surging Romney, someone they and their slobbering minions in the media created as this unlikeable, uncaring corporate vulture caricature taking the lead with days to go, and they’re in denial.
How can our Messiah be losing to this guy?
Well, when you don’t run against the real guy, and only focus on the caricature you created, reality rises up and bites you on the behind. And when you don’t have a record to run on, and the only strategy is to tear down the other guy, you’d better be going after the real guy and not your fantasy creation.
‘Cause the real guy just showed up, and he’s nothing like your creation. He’s talking about jobs, the economy and the future, while you’re stuck on Big Bird, binders and Romnesia.
Romney goes big, and your guy stays small.
No wonder you’re coming unglued.
md
October 24th, 2012
10:26 am
“Wouldn’t they have jobs if the plants were here? No offense, but that has to be the dumbest argument I have ever heard — bar none.”
Not if one understands the income to expense equation…….
Yes, if the plant was here there would also be jobs, but the number of jobs would more than likely be less and corps only have xx number of dollars to spend on labor and make a profit. If you have all high dollar jobs here in the States, you will NOT be able to have a competitive price on the world market.
And then, one must also be looking at the back end of the equation…….profit for the shareholders and investors. That would be US……and we also want our 401k’s and pensions to do well as SS is not and never will be a living retirement wage…………
Like it or not, our labor rates are not competitive on the world market especially when we have a monthly trade imbalance of 50 billion…….which means WE are buying everything cheap from offshore and that drives down the cost of goods……..LABOR is a component of the cost of goods, so as we the consumer drives down the cost of the goods, we are also driving down the cost of labor.
JamVet
October 24th, 2012
10:27 am
Howdy from Denver, gang. So BHO won the last debate and now we must endure another fortnight to see if Willard can pull this thing out of his ***. Good times and hang tough, cons. 2016 will be here before you know it…
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 24th, 2012
10:28 am
JDW, JDW, JDW.
Most people, when they find themselves in a hole, simply stop digging.
You, on the other hand, continue digging with relish.
What part of “Most intelligent people actually read position papers, work their way through tedious but necessary transcripts, and look for layers of thought when figuring out who they are going to vote for.” did you NOT understand?
Let me answer that for you – ALL of it!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 24th, 2012
10:34 am
Let’s keep it simple for the libs out there, since you have neither the intellectual capacity nor the patience to do actual research on important issues.
Vote for Obama.
The rest of us will save the country by doing our jobs and thinking before we vote.
md
October 24th, 2012
10:34 am
In numbers for you Mike:
If a corp can only afford to pay $20 in total wages, and the cost of labor here is $5 and the cost of labor over there is $1, then a corp has a choice.
They can employ 4 people over here, 20 people over there, or a combination of the two……..odds are the 4 people here are not going to be enough to get the job done at a competitive price with those companies offshore that are doing it with 20 people………..
JDW
October 24th, 2012
10:34 am
@Tiberius…interesting article. I have been familiar with the premise for some time. As a matter of fact I have and continue to do a great deal of work in the corporate environment that helps people understand this sort of dynamic and improve their skills.
I suggest you spend a lot of time analyzing these two points in the context of your life.
“people are self-delusional when it comes to their own intellectual skills.”
“To the extent that you are incompetent, you are a worse judge of incompetence in other people,”
As for me, I am one of the most well tested and vetted people you will every encounter. I know EXACTLY where I rate on the bell curve on a variety of things ranging from raw intelligence to critical thinking to an ability to make decisions on limited data.
My big blind spot…I really struggle with those that are shall we say…a bit slower.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 24th, 2012
10:36 am
“I know EXACTLY where I rate on the bell curve on a variety of things ranging from raw intelligence to critical thinking to an ability to make decisions on limited data. ”
I know where you rate as well, JDW.
Incredibly low.
JDW
October 24th, 2012
10:37 am
@Tibierus…”What part of “Most intelligent people actually read position papers, work their way through tedious but necessary transcripts, and look for layers of thought when figuring out who they are going to vote for.” did you NOT understand?”
No part…found any mention of funding yet…nope didn’t think so.
JDW
October 24th, 2012
10:39 am
“Incredibly low.”
Only in Tiberiusville…
Winky Dinky Dog
October 24th, 2012
10:48 am
JDW
Let Tiberius have his fun. It makes him feel better about himself.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 24th, 2012
11:03 am
“found any mention of funding yet…nope didn’t think so.”
Let’s get this straight.
I argue against using sound bites to make an intelligent argument about a candidate, and JDW wants me to use a sound bite to make my point.
Got it.
Is there any wonder why these rubes bought into “Hope and Change”?
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 24th, 2012
11:11 am
Mark, JDW, yes, Romney has changed his mind on positions, but his opponent is also a flip/flopper, like a beached perch on the sand. Just a few examples,
He believed that legislation should be discussed on C-Span, before the vote.
He believed in traditional marriage
He believed that Bush was unpatriotic and irresponsible for creating a 4.5 T deficit, now……………
He believed in ‘transparency”, now he is deceptive and secretive.
He believed in gun control until he “evolved” and now “says” he supports the second Amendment, a political conversion, much like Romney’s conversion on Abortion, as he ran for MA governor. Most everyone with a working brain, knows that Barry is lying about his second amendment support.
I just don’t see much difference in their “consistency”.
So, we are left deciding, do we want to reelect someone who has proven to be a failure, or try someone else. If all you have is the flip/flop argument, you have run out of arguments, that one is a draw, at best.
Bruno
October 24th, 2012
11:18 am
Well, when you don’t run against the real guy, and only focus on the caricature you created, reality rises up and bites you on the behind. And when you don’t have a record to run on, and the only strategy is to tear down the other guy, you’d better be going after the real guy and not your fantasy creation.
Ti–Good post. In case you were unaware, Bookman has been accusing us Cons of living in an echo chamber the past 4 years, framing this election in terms of one’s basic grip on reality. The implication being, of course, that Obama is such a standout candidate in comparison to Romney, that only a crazy person would consider voting for Romney.
I don’t see it that way. I think Romney presented himself well in all three debates, and would likely make a good President. In the end, each person has to decide which candidate best represents their interests and core values. For me, helping the economy grow again is at the top of the list, so Romney is getting my vote.