Chapter 3: Live thread for the final Obama-Romney debate
UPDATE at 10:40 p.m.: The candidates very much got back to foreign policy. If Romney’s goal was to present himself as knowledgeable and reasonable on foreign policy — i.e., not a war-monger — he achieved it. He has been much more conciliatory toward Obama than vice versa — he’s eschewed many opportunities to attack Obama, whereas Obama has been on the attack all night. Which suggests both candidates saw Romney as the front-runner coming into tonight’s debate.
If so, I saw nothing tonight to change that. Each candidate had some good moments, but neither truly drew blood. If Obama needed a win, I don’t think he got it tonight.
The pundits are talking about Obama winning on “debate points.” I don’t think that’s the way undecided voters view these things. They wanted to see, as in the first debate, if Romney was this wild-eyed extremist the Democrats have been painting him as. Obama didn’t sleep-walk through this debate by any means, but Romney achieved the same goal of coming across as reasonable and, this time, believable as a commander-in-chief. That’s all he needed tonight.
***
UPDATE at 9:41 p.m.: Both candidates are trying very hard to turn this into something other than a foreign-policy debate. Which probably makes political sense; only so many voters are going to pull the lever based on what they think will happen in Damascus. But given that Obama has managed no more than a tie from the first two debates, and is saying nothing new on domestic policy tonight, you have to wonder why he thinks this is a good strategy.
***
UPDATE at 9:28 p.m.: So far, Romney sounds as if the last words — maybe the only words — he heard before he went on stage were: “Don’t sound bellicose.” Which is smart, but he doesn’t have to sound bellicose to draw a clear line between his policies and priorities and Obama’s. And so far he isn’t doing that effectively.
For his part, the president has turned every question so far back to “nation-building at home.” He’s been saying that for years now. His problem is that his idea of nation-building at home isn’t necessarily what the people at home want. Obamacare? Dodd-Frank? Deficit spending for stimulus?
***
Tonight is President Obama’s last chance to beat Mitt Romney in a head-to-head debate — and, possibly, to grab hold of the prevailing narrative of this election as it enters its final two weeks.
To recap: Romney changed his fortunes in the first debate in Denver on Oct. 3. Within a week of his solid defeat of a listless Obama, Romney had gone from trailing by 3.1 percentage points in the Real Clear Politics average of national opinion polls to leading by 1.5 points. More important, he took control in swing states that traditionally back Republicans (e.g., Missouri and North Carolina) and put some typically Democratic-leaning states (think Michigan, Wisconsin and even Pennsylvania) into the toss-up category.
Last Tuesday’s debate on Long Island finished with many observers — including, naturally, all those Democrats who had been wringing their hands about the first debate — declaring Obama the winner. I took some heat from some of my regular commenters for predicting Obama wouldn’t get a boost from the debate. But sure enough, Romney is a slightly larger favorite in the RCP average six days later. And the most crucial swing states — particularly Ohio, but also New Hampshire, Iowa, Nevada and perhaps even Wisconsin — remain within either man’s grasp. The race definitely is in “too close to call” territory.
But the first two debates were largely about domestic policy. Now we get a night all about foreign policy — at least until each candidate can segue to the domestic implications of any given topic — and that ought to be firmer ground for the current commander-in-chief than for his challenger. Will Obama be able to capitalize on that? Or will Romney be able to portray his presidency as one of missed opportunities and even missteps, particularly when it comes to the inflamed Middle East?
We shall see. Tune in here and on Twitter for real-time commentary, and look out tomorrow for a special post-debate discussion on AJC.com with yours truly and my colleague, Jay Bookman.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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195 comments Add your comment
MarkV
October 22nd, 2012
6:56 pm
The interesting question is, which of his many positions on any subject Gov. Romney will adopt in today’s debate.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 22nd, 2012
7:01 pm
Soledad O’Brien for Vice Pres in 2016!
Warren/O’Brian 2016!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 22nd, 2012
7:02 pm
MarkV
Today is a new day! Romney has a whole new etch a sketch plan laid out.
cc
October 22nd, 2012
7:08 pm
. . . and when the smoke clears, Obama will have been erased forever from the etch-a-sketch. By this time next year, Obama will be a distant but unpleasant memory.
cc
October 22nd, 2012
7:15 pm
Two more interesting questions are:
(1) How many questions will Obama not answer tonight?
(2) How many lies will Obama tell tonight?
td
October 22nd, 2012
7:17 pm
MarkV
October 22nd, 2012
6:56 pm
The interesting question is, which of his many positions on any subject Gov. Romney will adopt in today’s debate.
You mean which lie will Obama tell tonight about Libya?
@@
October 22nd, 2012
7:18 pm
Foreign policy ought to be firmer ground for Obama?
You give him more credit than he deserves, Kyle.
From what I’ve seen, he’s delegated all foreign policy issues to anyone other than hisself.
MarkV
October 22nd, 2012
7:22 pm
td @7:17 pm
“You mean which lie will Obama tell tonight about Libya.
td, another liar, lying about Obama and Libya.
cc
October 22nd, 2012
7:31 pm
“From what I’ve seen, he’s delegated all foreign policy issues to anyone other than himself.”
Latest word has it that the White House chef has now assumed those responsibilities. The chef not only knows more about foreign affairs than Hillary, but is also capable of cooking.
Obama now considers foreign policy anything which occurs and is situated in the U. S. outside the ghettos of Chicago.
Scrivener
October 22nd, 2012
7:38 pm
MarkV, your devotion to this incompetent empty suit in the White House is duly noted.
MarkV
October 22nd, 2012
7:43 pm
Scrivener @ 7:38 pm: “MarkV, your devotion to this incompetent empty suit in the White House is duly noted.”
Scrivener, your inanity and non sequitur are duly noted.
Scrivener
October 22nd, 2012
7:51 pm
Non sequitur how? And “inanity” seems to your word du jour.
@@
October 22nd, 2012
7:55 pm
cc:
I can recall, during 2008, when Obama said this:
“I think it is going to be part of the president’s job to be able to deal with more than one thing at once.”
He’s been campaigning since his first day in office. It’s painfully obvious that he’s unable to campaign and run the country at the same time.
Georgia
October 22nd, 2012
7:58 pm
Obama’s only got an hour to invent more stinking lies.
Hillbilly D
October 22nd, 2012
7:59 pm
I’ll be watching the ballgame, y’all have fun arguing.
Raymond Tindell
October 22nd, 2012
8:04 pm
How many assists will Obama get from a loving supportive biased moderator????
cc
October 22nd, 2012
8:07 pm
@@, I believe that campaigning is ALL that Obama is capable of doing. Can you imagine how much worse off we would be if he actually focused on running the country considering his lack of knowledge as to how America works?
MarkV
October 22nd, 2012
8:07 pm
Scrivener @ 7:51 pm
“Inanity” is a perfect word for your comment.
Non sequitur – an argument in which its conclusion does not follow from its premises. When I call someone telling lies a liar, or remind of the many changes of Romney’s positions, it shows nothing about any devotion that could be “duly noted.”
MarkV
October 22nd, 2012
8:09 pm
Raymond Tindell @ 8:04 pm
“How many assists will Obama get from a loving supportive biased moderator????”
A good indicator of who lost a debate – complaints about the moderator.
Nick
October 22nd, 2012
8:12 pm
What time is the final debate between president Obama and Mitt Romney? thank’s.
Scrivener
October 22nd, 2012
8:13 pm
MarkV says: “Inanity” is a perfect word for your comment. Non sequitur – an argument in which its conclusion does not follow from its premises. When I call someone telling lies a liar, or remind of the many changes of Romney’s positions, it shows nothing about any devotion that could be “duly noted.”
And, Mark, that is a perfect example of why it’s pointless to argue with you. I’ve read your back-and-forths with people, and you frankly make no sense. You parse words ad infinitum and give them meanings that suit your purpose. Obfuscation is clearly your modus operandi, so instead of getting further entangled in your word games, I’ll just sit back and watch. Knock yourself out.
td
October 22nd, 2012
8:24 pm
I can see MarkV is all fired up to make Obama’s last stand tonight.
Nick
October 22nd, 2012
8:24 pm
I just noticed that will take place at 9 pm local time. and (0400 AM GMT) for people from Hellas.
iggy
October 22nd, 2012
8:28 pm
OBlunders time has come. Hopefully, this will be one of his last Hurrahs!!
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 22nd, 2012
8:35 pm
Speaking of Etch a Sketch, that would be Obama’s version of what happened in Benghazi. Everyday he shakes and bakes and we get a different story. Will he fess up tonight and straighten out all the story lines. Can he weave all those stories into one logical narrative? Doubtful.
iggy
October 22nd, 2012
8:43 pm
The Good, Romney, the Bad, Obama and the Ugly, Biden is on tonite…
cc
October 22nd, 2012
8:43 pm
Gone to watch the debate, and then off to bed! Good night to all my fellow conservatives . ..
nelson
October 22nd, 2012
8:47 pm
After the debate there will be a “data smog” of polls. The sheer volume of data being sent out into the cacophony of noise touting which polls telling everyone what the pollsters want to tell. Nothing but a fog of facts and figures. It is called the pollution of information. The Gallup is the only poll with a track record going back to 1938. The Poll has picked every winner of the presidency, with the exception of picking Dewey over Truman in 1948 and Ford over Carter in 1968. No other poll has that record over time. The Gallup Poll also makes its “raw data” available which others do not.
It gives Romney a 7 point lead among the voters.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 22nd, 2012
8:49 pm
One is inexperienced, one is inept.
One makes promises, one makes excuses.
One makes accusations, one invents answers.
One is for strength, one is for comity.
One is for Israel, one is for impartiality.
One knows what terror is, one doesn’t like to talk about terror.
One wants to take on China, one is afraid of starting a trade war.
One knows the truth about Putin, one likes his reset switch.
One is sad about Embassy deaths, one thinks the deaths are not optimal.
iggy
October 22nd, 2012
8:54 pm
PMSNBC cant help themselves wrapping Romney in the “W” flag.
Desparate times call for desparate actions.
MarkV
October 22nd, 2012
8:56 pm
Scrivener @8:13 pm
Of course you will do that. Like some other moral cowards here, you just write an insult or accusation and then when you are challenged and unable to support it, you just bail out.
iggy
October 22nd, 2012
8:57 pm
Chris Mathews is attempting to channel Tip Oneil.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 22nd, 2012
8:59 pm
Benghazi.
What did Obozo know, when did he know it, and why did he and his regime lie to the American people for two weeks?
Osama is dead. Al Qaeda is alive.
iggy
October 22nd, 2012
9:12 pm
Romney needs to go on the offense….
Rose Barr
October 22nd, 2012
9:12 pm
“Go after the bad guys” … Really… Sounds like the foreign policy of a 4-yr-old.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 22nd, 2012
9:16 pm
watch the Obama beatdown
td
October 22nd, 2012
9:18 pm
We are going to community organize Syria and let the protesters go it on their own without weapons against tanks and aircraft.
cdub
October 22nd, 2012
9:23 pm
Romney can not Stop his flip flopping! He is going to be deafeted by Obama tonight. Obama is def. already winning
Old timer
October 22nd, 2012
9:26 pm
Ob….Muslim countries owe nothing to make things better to fit our picture of what should be done. They kill girls who want a education….it is not our vision.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 22nd, 2012
9:28 pm
The Kenyan, Muslim, Socialist is killin it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
9:32 pm
Romney is all over the map, stumbling. He really has no idea how to handle foreign policy. Heavy arms to Syria, but make sure they aren’t used against us or our allies. How?
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
9:33 pm
Policy for the future?? What is it Mitt?
ODD OWL
October 22nd, 2012
9:34 pm
Gov. Romney is rambling on incoherrently… Gov. Romney is totally ignorant of foreign policies… He’s a bloviating ignoramus…
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
9:35 pm
Just hit the teacher’s union. What is he thinking?
White
October 22nd, 2012
9:37 pm
Romney is so disrespectful Obama going win this thing
White
October 22nd, 2012
9:39 pm
Ok keep it real! Rep don’t like Obama cause of his skin not his policy!
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
9:39 pm
Romney will take us to war. somewhere, anywhere. “Come on a website and see how we will cut things”
ODD OWL
October 22nd, 2012
9:39 pm
The Governor is getting a good education in civic class by professor Obama… But Romney don’t want to listen… Apparently he has ADHD,,,
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
9:40 pm
Georgia running Medicare?? Are you kidding.
Old timer
October 22nd, 2012
9:40 pm
Obqma is the most disrespectful debate opponent I have ever seen….
ODD OWL
October 22nd, 2012
9:42 pm
Romney ain’t ready…
White
October 22nd, 2012
9:43 pm
Please he need slap Romney for talking him like that! Plz richie rich is so disrespectful
ODD OWL
October 22nd, 2012
9:43 pm
Romney as President ??? Scary…
White
October 22nd, 2012
9:44 pm
Kiss the ring republicans lol
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
9:44 pm
Two conflicts at once? That’s why we are in the deficit mess now.
Gina522
October 22nd, 2012
9:45 pm
Excuse me, but what debate are you fellows watching?
White
October 22nd, 2012
9:45 pm
It’s called prez bush n daddy bush is the reason why
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
9:46 pm
The one on tv.
White
October 22nd, 2012
9:46 pm
The one where richie better go count his money! His material is old!
Patty
October 22nd, 2012
9:47 pm
Talking about foreign policy, here’s what our British allies are reading tonight:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2221596/Libya-consulate-attack-Second-U-S-building-attacked-Benghazi-CIA-base.html
Wonder when US media will finally decide to report this?
ODD OWL
October 22nd, 2012
9:48 pm
We the People don’t call the President the apex ace of asymmetrical warfare and an expert on foreign policy for nothing… Romney spew rhetoric with reckless abandon…
Mark
October 22nd, 2012
9:48 pm
Romney is not prepared tonight probably because he has no foreign policy platform to run on. President Obama once again is knocking Romney off his @ss!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 22nd, 2012
9:48 pm
Romney is O’s beeeeatch
B
October 22nd, 2012
9:49 pm
Romney is looking far from Presidential. Try in another 4 years.
cdub
October 22nd, 2012
9:50 pm
Romney knows nothing about our military or foreign policy. Romney has changed his statements si many times…. Romney is too ignorant to be our président .
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
9:51 pm
No B, we can only hope he doesn’t, plus Ann said he wouldn’t.
iggy
October 22nd, 2012
9:51 pm
Romney is backed off the bluster tonite…catering to the females.
Mark
October 22nd, 2012
9:51 pm
td
October 22nd, 2012
8:24 pm
I can see MarkV is all fired up to make Obama’s last stand tonight
td you mean Romney’s last stand don’t you? I mean once he loses this election his political career is over….again
ODD OWL
October 22nd, 2012
9:52 pm
Romney has 18 of Bush/Cheney foreign policy advisors on his staff… All of them are chicken hawks, who avoided military service…. So we should not be surprise that Gov. Romney seem to be confused and out of touch…
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
9:56 pm
No service in the military is the norm for those who start wars for the economy. Even Dubya’s Dad knew better than to go to war since he had served.
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
10:00 pm
Romney stumbling around. What’s up with him?
iggy
October 22nd, 2012
10:01 pm
Romney is hung over from his Sat night drinking party….He is tired.
Old timer
October 22nd, 2012
10:01 pm
Enter your comments hereSo obama visits a holiest museum and he knows all about Isreal and he will support Isreal….what do you not support.. I am tired of this…
B
October 22nd, 2012
10:03 pm
I love it when Obama uses Romney’s words against him. Romney is his own worst enemy.
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
10:04 pm
Bring the troops home from Afghanistan.
B
October 22nd, 2012
10:05 pm
Absolutely!!
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
10:08 pm
Too many Americans have died, let Afghan troops handle their own country in 2014.
Support our vets when they come back.
B
October 22nd, 2012
10:10 pm
As Obama said, we have accomplished the reasons for being there.
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
10:11 pm
Romney is supporting Obama.
B
October 22nd, 2012
10:12 pm
Romney we can walk away Afghanistan!!
Mark
October 22nd, 2012
10:15 pm
How many times tonight has Romney said he agrees with the President’s position? LMAO!
B
October 22nd, 2012
10:16 pm
That’s because Romney doesn’t have his own foreign policy platform, he is listening to the President and is saying hey this sounds pretty good maybe I can use it.
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
10:18 pm
That’s my impression too.
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
10:23 pm
So far the best line of the night, “We have fewer bayonets now too”
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
10:24 pm
My Dad was the “head” of a car company. Great line Romney.
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
10:25 pm
The people of Detroit don’t forget.
Mark
October 22nd, 2012
10:26 pm
Twice Romney has accused the President of attacking him instead of debating the issues. This is showing that he’s losing this debate tonight and all his followers will cry tomorrow saying the moderator was unfair. LOL!
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
10:27 pm
You’re right Mark.
anon1
October 22nd, 2012
10:28 pm
Thought this was a foreign policy debate?
White
October 22nd, 2012
10:29 pm
Wow Romney is losing it! He is lying! Guess his boy want to slap him
Tall
October 22nd, 2012
10:32 pm
..”asking the wealthy to do a little more…”
We always bounce back…I will listen to you …..I will work with you liar…LIAR…..LIAR!!!!.
B
October 22nd, 2012
10:33 pm
Wow, Romney’s closing statement was a ramble.
cdub
October 22nd, 2012
10:44 pm
Obama won
Sister Sarah
October 22nd, 2012
10:45 pm
Wow! Jay’s blog, Kyle’s blog. I think we know what the deal is, especially since those who are on Romney’s side aren’t even standing up for him over here. I see tumbleweeds. Not good.
MarkV
October 22nd, 2012
10:52 pm
Romney tonight: Me too, me too. I agree with everything Obama is doing, and I will do the same, only better.
RW-(the original)
October 22nd, 2012
10:53 pm
When you boil this debate down to it’s essence you see that Romney wants to further the greatness of this country and Obama wants to make sure they tell you on The View tomorrow that he got in a nice barb. The differences in these two men couldn’t be more clear.
RW-(the original)
October 22nd, 2012
10:56 pm
And for a little multi-tasking I should add that a 3-1 lead doesn’t get blown often in the NLCS but when it does it’s usually the Cards doing the blowing.
Progressive Humanist
October 22nd, 2012
10:57 pm
Romney looked weak tonight and was exposed as a man without core beliefs. He agreed with Obama on almost every point and denied having held contradictory positions just weeks ago. He showed he knows little about the military and that his talk about getting tough on Iran and China is nothing but cheap bluster. Tonight’s performance could not have helped him.
JDW
October 22nd, 2012
11:00 pm
I wonder if Romney hurts his neck when he changes direction so abruptly
Scrivener
October 22nd, 2012
11:02 pm
Obama looked royally p’d off all night and tried to insert his talking points even when they weren’t relevant. He looked desperate. Romney looked relaxed and was on point on all his answers. I’m quite sure he appealed much more to the independent voters tonight.
Progressive Humanist
October 22nd, 2012
11:03 pm
Nice way to spin a loss, Scrivener.
Scrivener
October 22nd, 2012
11:07 pm
Get back to me after the election, PH, if you’re not too depressed.
Progressive Humanist
October 22nd, 2012
11:07 pm
CBS snap poll:
53% thought Obama won
23% thought Romney won
Progressive Humanist
October 22nd, 2012
11:08 pm
Oh, I’ll get back to you, happily. You must not understand the electoral college.
RW-(the original)
October 22nd, 2012
11:08 pm
The only difference I have with Scrivener’s take is that I don’t think Obama looked p’d tonight, I thought he looked robotic and could never quite figure out when to throw in his talking points, but he was determined to blurt them out anyway.
JDW
October 22nd, 2012
11:10 pm
BTW, looks like Kyle’s baseball prognosticator is going to be 23 for 27…SF 8 to zip
Progressive Humanist
October 22nd, 2012
11:11 pm
Wishful thinking, rw, but that’s what I’d expect from the great obfuscator.
RW-(the original)
October 22nd, 2012
11:17 pm
“The Great Obfuscator” has a nice ring to it, but I think I’ll stick with my own handle.
Anyway, PH, I know this is beyond your ability to comprehend but I’ve only proffered my opinion so it really isn’t subject to your declaration. If you’d like me to make a declaration I will and you’re free to foolishly bat it down, but here goes. Romney will carry Georgia. Feel free to flail away.
hsn
October 22nd, 2012
11:18 pm
That line from Obama with “….Less bayonets and horses…” was classic and golden !!!
O 2012!
Rush
October 22nd, 2012
11:21 pm
That boy looked desperate tonight………..
jod
October 22nd, 2012
11:22 pm
Did obummer need to take a dumb, cause he looked strained all night.
Progressive Humanist
October 22nd, 2012
11:23 pm
You really went out on a limb there, rw. Okay, I’ll make a somewhat riskier prediction: Obama will take Ohio.
jod
October 22nd, 2012
11:23 pm
Dump*
Rush
October 22nd, 2012
11:23 pm
But somehow we need “more teachers” in today’s technology based world, hsn? Guess those union teachers need to be able to sit on their…………and do nothing as usual.
Rush
October 22nd, 2012
11:24 pm
Lack of TOTUS has really impacted The One………..
jod
October 22nd, 2012
11:26 pm
Hmmm…. bayonets, pretty sure every soldier and marine has that standard issue. Maybe Obama doesn’t even know our own military …. just saying.
Babatunde
October 22nd, 2012
11:27 pm
SCHIEFFER: We know that Pakistan has arrested the doctor who helped us catch Obama (sic) bin Laden.
Hands down the best, and funniest, line of the evening!
RW-(the original)
October 22nd, 2012
11:34 pm
Obama will take Ohio.
Nice move, PH and I’ll go out on the limb extending from the other side of that tree. Romney carries Ohio, or Oiho as Obama spells it, and wins the Presidency.
Babatunds,
What he actually said was “Obama’s Bin Laden” which is almost funnier.
RW-(the original)
October 22nd, 2012
11:38 pm
What a tough call for the umps. 9 zip with 2 down in the ninth but it’s a freaking monsoon
Jod
October 22nd, 2012
11:38 pm
Lol… I heard that too rw.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 22nd, 2012
11:41 pm
U.S. Government’s Foreign Debt Now $47,495 Per Household
obozo has a point, why make war on your sugar daddy?
Progressive Humanist
October 22nd, 2012
11:46 pm
rw- Possible but unlikely. CBS/Quinnipiac has Obama up 5% in Ohio as of today and 60% of early voters there have voted Dem. I think tonight’s debate can only help Obama there. Now I think you need to get back to using your super secret decoder ring to investigate that scraggly UGA computer science sophomore who scared you, Andy, and Buy Danish into calling the FBI, oh back in 2005 was it?
jconservative
October 22nd, 2012
11:56 pm
OK. The Giants won so I guess we can start speculating who Obama will nominate as the next Sec of State. Will he keep Geithner at Treasury? What about Attorney General?
RW-(the original)
October 22nd, 2012
11:56 pm
CBS/Quinnipiac has Obama up 5%
Lucky for us SeeBS polls don’t actually count, but nice try.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 22nd, 2012
11:57 pm
CNN poll following the debate:
Who was more likeable: Obama 48%, Romney 47%
President Likeability took a hit tonight.
60% think Romney could be President.
24% changed their vote to Obama, 25% changed their vote to Romney. 50% didn’t change at all.
Doesn’t matter who “won” the debate. With numbers like these, there will be no momentum shift from this.
OldTimer
October 23rd, 2012
12:01 am
The Marines still use bayonets–but what do you expect from a someone that has never served in the military and unfortunately runs it. He is a self appointed King served by czars handling his heavy lifing work. Obama also messed up on the auto bailout .He was only interested in saving union votes with taxpayers money. Been around the block too long to be impressed by political carnival barker talk.
Dealmaker
October 23rd, 2012
12:02 am
Romney did not embarrass himself tonight with missteps on the facts like he did in the last debate. However, he disclosed a lack of expertise when he attempted to score points on the size of the Navy by claiming the number of ships was an indicator of military weakness. Obama correctly pointed out that the technological capability of the modern Navy was the strongest that it has ever been so that we didn’t need as many ships. Romney was attempting to link ship building to economic and jobs potential. Obama countered with rebuilding of domestic infrastructure as a much better application of our limited budget dollars. Obama out scored Romney on the savvy the Commander in Chief needs to effectively govern. Romney gave up most Conservative positions agreeing with the President on 90% of the President’s policies. Debate sore is Romney 1 Obama 2.
WowRUKiddingMe?
October 23rd, 2012
12:02 am
Wow, Kyle Wingnut, you lived up to your name tonight! Must get really dizzy, spinning so much, constantly, constantly, then having to spin around the other way.
I do have to give RMoney credit, though–he was at least smart enough to agree on many of Obama’s strategies, but he still wants to move American jobs overseas to Communist Chinese slave labor. Didn’t I hear he bought one of the Chi-Comm companies that had fences around it to keep workers in? Oh, yeah, he said it was to keep “eager workers” out!
The fact that you right-wingers continue to pervert the words of Jesus to enrich yourselves and screw over the very young, sick, old, and poor makes me sick.
Of course you and your Fox-programmed armies can attack me just for saying the obvious. As usual.
Those who do precisely the opposite of what Jesus taught can’t call themselves “Christians.” But I do recall a word that describes those with your mindset in the Bible… it’s somewhere in the back.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
12:04 am
It’s always funny to hear Obama tell us (and Romney) what Romney’s policies are, Old Timer.
Too bad Obama doesn’t actually know what they are.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
12:09 am
“Obama correctly pointed out that the technological capability of the modern Navy was the strongest that it has ever been so that we didn’t need as many ships. ”
Tell that to the Navy commanders. Doesn’t matter how technological they are if you don’t have enough to do the job, and the Navy is grumbling big-time.
WowRUKiddingMe?
October 23rd, 2012
12:11 am
http://blogs.ajc.com/kyle-wingfield/2012/10/22/chapter-3-live-thread-for-the-final-obama-romney-debate/?cp=3#comment-159297
“[w]hat do you expect from a someone that has never served in the military”?
You mean like RMoney, who went to France to spread his religion that Billy Graham, till a couple days ago labelled a cult?
Obama didn’t have a war to get into, and didn’t get exemptions, like Bush, JR, who kept the commies out of Texas, or Dick “Five Deferments/I-had-better-things-to-do” Cheney.
Say, Mittens’ wife says since their kids went around proselytizing for what was until very recently for Billy Graham, a “cult,” and that’s just the same as serving in a war. Is it? Those poor boys had doors slammed in their faces! Doors! SLAMMED! Surely that’s the same as seeing your kids come home in pieces, in body bags, or maybe just a blood-stained set of dog tags. Right?
Man, your world is so much easier than reality.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
12:11 am
“but he still wants to move American jobs overseas to Communist Chinese slave labor.”
Really? Cite the policy, Kidding.
“Didn’t I hear he bought one of the Chi-Comm companies that had fences around it to keep workers in?”
Only if you believe the DNC talking points memo.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
12:12 am
Looks like Gravy Stain is trying to make a comeback on here.
WowRUKiddingMe?
October 23rd, 2012
12:16 am
“Really? Cite the policy, Kidding.”
Policy? It’s not gubmint policy, but it’s what RMoney did while buying up American companies, bankrupting them, looting the pensions of American workers and sending their American jobs to China, which is still a communist country which employs slave labor. That’s a fact. Don’t even have to check one o’them evil librul “democrat party” sites. It’s public record.
Nite! Some of us have to work tomorrow.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
12:18 am
Good riddance, Stain.
bluecoat
October 23rd, 2012
1:43 am
Hang down you head TD hang down your head and cry.Tom Dooley (Dula)At least Romney did not have his cheat sheet with him,or in view.Oh I forgot,that was a magic hankerchief….It’s sad when 1/3 of post are from same person with different monikers.
bluecoat
October 23rd, 2012
1:45 am
handkerchief
Steve Johnson
October 23rd, 2012
5:03 am
The author must have been watching some other debate….because I have no idea how someone could walk away thinking the last two debates were a tie. Obama swept the floor with Romney, especially tonight. Romney showed he didn’t even pay attention in his geography classes in regards to water ways from Iran. Plus he has no concept of WHY we have fewer ships in our Navy. Not to mention, Romney has no clue of how to actually create jobs…because all Bain Capitol did was destroy jobs. Sorry man, you need to go back to journalism school and learn how to fact check and take notes while watching a debate.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
6:43 am
“Sorry man, you need to go back to journalism school and learn how to fact check”
You can’t make this stuff up.
“Romney has no clue of how to actually create jobs…because all Bain Capitol did was destroy jobs.”
Here’s a fact check, Steve Johnson: Bain Capital, under Mitt Romney’s leadership, created or maintained jobs in over 70% of the companies they invested in.
iggy
October 23rd, 2012
7:13 am
CO comes over to the Romney side….
cc
October 23rd, 2012
8:06 am
After reading the posts from last night, I have to wonder if there were actually TWO debates last night! The debate that I saw featured a very UN-presidential Obama dispensing snide remarks and attempting to insert ‘points’ at inappropriate times. My thought was that his verbiage and point-making ploys probably did NOT appeal to the undecided voters.
ktbl
October 23rd, 2012
8:06 am
If you have been following the two people in the ring for president, you will understand that Mitt don’t have any ideals as to what is important. He lives for the rich, downing the poor….of all races. He then comes back changing his stories one right after another….so if you sure you want him to be your leader vote for him and ryan and see where you end up. Yes, he will get the us in aother war his face and his words say’s he cannot be trusted. Where are we as a people siding with this person(s) and we are right back where we started because we have not gain anything for ourselves nor is any representatives or congressmen doing anything for us……..it is all about them and their famillies. the sad part is, our tax dolllars going overseas could be use for our homelessness, poor, starving citizens of these united states of america! That is why I am upset with the people who you all keep electing to serve as congressman. They need to look out for us! Excuse me if you think I am not honest.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
8:27 am
ktbl, sometimes you just have to refrain from drinking until after 5 pm.
iggy
October 23rd, 2012
8:33 am
“Excuse me if you think I am not honest.”
Nice summation.
MarkV
October 23rd, 2012
8:53 am
The best exchange of the evening? Romney’s foolish comparison of our Navy now and in 1917, and Obama’s response pointing out the capabilities of the modern military.
Deavastating.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 23rd, 2012
8:54 am
I was somewhat disappointed in Romney’s gamble last night. He decided to play prevent defense, like the NFL coaches do most every game. I am not a big fan of the “prevent”. I think Romney passed up too many opportunities to point out the failures of this abysmal regime, for the purpose of appearing thoughtful, stable, Presidential, and not bellicose. He may have thrown the debate, in an effort to win over the undecideds and women. I think he thought that was the best way to win the election. I hope he made the right choice that winning the war was more important than winning the battle.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 23rd, 2012
9:04 am
MarkV
I agree that Obama won this point, however, it was because Romney did not argue the issue. No matter how sophisticated your armaments are if there are not enough of them, then often you lose.
As the battle waged in Libya, I’m thinking, why is no help coming. Obviously we had no aircraft carrier in the Med, or we could have supplied some air cover against the assault and brought in troops from helicopters. Why no carrier in the Med, because the few we have are on patrol in other places, like the Persian Gulf. The number of aircraft carriers and ships have been greatly reduced over the last 20 years. Many of the light attack ships are now used in the drug wars as the Coast Guard is short.
If Romney gets some ex Navy guys to embellish the need for more ships and sailors in the next few days, he can blunt Obama’s advantage. But, as I pointed out above his strategy was to win over the women and undecideds, who probably don’t care one way or the other.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 23rd, 2012
9:06 am
Multiple choice Mitt on full display last night.
He moved as hard as he could to the center.
For those saying Mitt was playing prevent.
Who plays prevent defense when you are tied ? ( Actually behind in Electoral College and behind in Ohio which you must win )
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 23rd, 2012
9:08 am
If Romney gets some ex Navy guys to embellish the need for more ships and sailors in the next few days, he can blunt Obama’s advantage.
The old swift boat strategy.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
9:09 am
“The best exchange of the evening? Romney’s comparison of our Navy now and in 1917, and Obama’s petulant and childish response pointing out the capabilities of the modern military.”
Embarrassing to Obama.
Fixed your typo, MarkV.
PROUD NAVY VET
October 23rd, 2012
9:09 am
One question that has really been on my mind for a few days is this. When the election is over and a new President has been chosen, how does the country heal? The wounds from this election go deep. What will it take for the right to actually do what is needed to get America whole again if Obama wins? I ask the same question of us on the left. Will we fall in line and help Romney do what he feels is in the nations best interest? I sure hope so. I will do all I can to help the new Prez be successful. Because with the shape Europe is in, there will be trouble in the United States and we have to be on the same page to get through that. Is it possible?
iggy
October 23rd, 2012
9:11 am
For last nights debate, Romney CLEARLY accomplished his goal.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
9:12 am
Cheesy, Romney didn’t play prevent. He played disarm.
All week long the Obama campaign was talking about Romney the war-hawk.
Romney didn’t let Obama goad him into anything like that.
The CNN numbers show nothing changed, which still leaves a small momentum with Romney, with 60% of their respondents saying Romney was Presidential.
Not good for Hopey-Changey
iggy
October 23rd, 2012
9:13 am
Is it possible? Its possible but not probable. The left is intent on doling out dollar after dollar to the lazy and the morally bankrupt. That has to stop.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
9:17 am
“What will it take for the right to actually do what is needed to get America whole again if Obama wins?”
Ask yourself this, Navy Vet: What might OBAMA do to heal the divide if he is re-elected, as he has caused much of this division himself.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 23rd, 2012
9:18 am
Is it possible? Its possible but not probable. The left is intent on doling out dollar after dollar to the lazy and the morally bankrupt. That has to stop.
And Republicans are intent on giving everything to the rich.
We can both plan that game.
Most poor people I know work 2 or 3 jobs and live on a shoestring budget.
Somewhere along the line you guys have lost sight of that. I guess being poor and working all the time with no insurance makes you a “freeloader” or “moocher” to Republicans.
After all if you are poor you probably chose to be poor right ?
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 23rd, 2012
9:19 am
What might OBAMA do to heal the divide if he is re-elected, as he has caused much of this division himself.
Right. LOL.
Everybody was all hugs and kisses when W was in Office.
You dont really believe half the stuff you type do you ?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 23rd, 2012
9:21 am
After Mitt Romney went on the attack about how the Navy has fewer ships than it did in 1916, Obama countered that the military also has fewer “horses and bayonets.”
“I think Governor Romney maybe hasn’t spent enough time looking at how our military works. You mentioned the Navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916,” Obama said. “Well, Governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets because the nature of our military has changed. We have these things called aircraft carriers, where planes land on them. We have ships that go underwater; nuclear submarines.”
Obama added: “And so the question is not a game of ‘Battleship’ where we’re counting ships. It’s: What are our capabilities?”
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/23/obama_the_military_also_has_fewer_horses_and_bayonets/
mwuahahahahahahahahahahaha
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 23rd, 2012
9:23 am
Either way this whole thing comes down to Ohio.
Obama is ahead there and I cant see him losing that state especially with Multiple Choice Mitts 34 different positions on the auto bailout.
Obama wins Ohio and wins a close re-election.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 23rd, 2012
9:25 am
I don’t think Mitt can hang on to Florida.
O wins in a landslide.
DawgDad
October 23rd, 2012
9:31 am
If this election is going to be decided by voters undecided going into this debate — this nation is in a world of hurt.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 23rd, 2012
9:31 am
I don’t think Mitt can hang on to Florida.
Personally I dont either.
Alot of Seniors down there may not like Obama. But when they get in that booth and think about Romney and Medicare and vouchers.
Its gonna scare them back to Obama.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 23rd, 2012
9:34 am
Cheesy
Romney doesn’t have 3 different positions on the bailout of the Auto industry. He has one position and it is written down in an opinion piece published in a newspaper. Look it up, it says what he says it says. Fact checks I saw last night, said he was correct. Obama has tried to convince people that Romney wanted the industry to be liquidated. Romney proposed that it go through normal bankruptcy with some government guarantees. Obama wanted to give the companies to the Unions and to see that the union members were not harmed during the restructuring. Mitt’s position is in writing. Like every other position, Obama is smoke and mirrors, nothing in writing that can be used to hold him accountable. Romney had the right position on the bailout.
Regarding playing “prevent”, obviously Romney thinks the trend is for him to win, so he was trying not to do any harm to the momentum he is building daily.
iggy
October 23rd, 2012
9:35 am
“After all if you are poor you probably chose to be poor right ?”
Chosing to be poor? No.
Chosing not to work? Yes.
You dont know any poor people. You are just making up things.
iggy
October 23rd, 2012
9:36 am
Earning misses all over the road. The Obama economy is in the ditch.
Dow down 172. Thanks OBLUNDER!!
Vet
October 23rd, 2012
9:37 am
Even if the results at the polls does not show it, Romney has no clue about nothing. Yes he will grow the Military so he can put our children in harms way, but people can not see this. As a retired Vet of 24 years I understood what the President said about the horses. We do not fight like that any more. 20 year ago I need every Soldier I could get now the job can be done with half the Soldiers because we are just that advance. I just really wish these President basher would just stop BS’ing and just said it, say the words ” I dont like him becasue of his skin color, not policies or anything else. The presidents has not done no worst than the last President have done.
DawgDad
October 23rd, 2012
9:37 am
Finn: Selective editing on your part? You conveniently omitted Romney’s lead-in citing the number of ships is below the minimum the Navy said was needed. Sure, Obama’s line was cute. Rhetoric is cheap.
iggy
October 23rd, 2012
9:40 am
“Romney has no clue about nothing.”
Really? Are you serious?
If he has no clue about nothing, as you indicate then you indicate he has A clue about something.
I can only suggest you Get a Clue.
And yet another jewel…”The presidents has not done no worst than the last President have done.”
Huh? No wonder you identify with OBlunder.
iggy
October 23rd, 2012
9:41 am
Dow now down 193…Thanks OBlunder.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
9:42 am
Vet pulls out the same, tired race card, ignoring the abject record of failure this President has on almost everything he’s tried.
MarkV
October 23rd, 2012
9:43 am
PolitiFact rated the Romney/Ryan comparison of Navies “Pants on Fire.” I would call it ignorant, preposterous and laughable.
DawgDad
October 23rd, 2012
9:45 am
“Alot of Seniors down there may not like Obama. But when they get in that booth and think about Romney and Medicare and vouchers.”
The ovewhelming majority of seniors are no where near that stupid. Romney’s voucher proposals have nothing to do with them or their Medicare.
My father had a railroad retirement, after 30+ years of service. He repeatedly reminded us what he could and should have accumulated had he been allowed to invest his contributions personally.
iggy
October 23rd, 2012
9:46 am
The wheels are coming off the OBlunder bus.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
9:47 am
Politifact – funded by George Soros.
Got it, MarkV.
Try an unbiased source next time. Maybe one that doesn’t cherry-pick and parse comments.
You know – like you do.
MANGLER
October 23rd, 2012
9:51 am
iggy, do you blame Obama for the DOW being at 13,400+/- today vs. 8,000 +/- when he took office?
Cajun
October 23rd, 2012
9:54 am
Tiberius
Soros? You can provide the link that substantiates that assertion?
Noticed you attacked the source and did not refute the information.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
9:55 am
Obama has about as much to do with the stock market as the stock market has to do with the overall health of the economy, which is very, very little.
MarkV
October 23rd, 2012
9:57 am
“Noticed you attacked the source and did not refute the information.”
Standard MO for Tiberius.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
10:05 am
I don’t need to refute the information, as I already have it at hand, Cajun.
Romney was speaking about numbers of ships, which are down from where they were (and where they should be). Obama childishly spoke of aircraft carriers and nuclear subs, which are only part of what the Navy needs to do. Subs are largely good for one thing – killing other subs and some surface ships, but they cannot PROJECT power. Aircraft carriers can project power, but need lots of support / screening ships for protection in wartime situations. If you reduce the number of support ships, you increase the vulnerability of the carrier. You lose one carrier, there’s not a lot of replacements waiting around to fill that void.
In addition, if you have to move men and materiel, planes ain’t gonna cut it, Cajun. You need sealift capability and protection for the convoys that will move them. The sealift capability will come from the merchant marine side of the house, but the protection still has to come from the Navy.
And remember, that’s today’s situation. Obama is talking about cutting that even further.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 23rd, 2012
10:10 am
You need sealift capability and protection for the convoys that will move them
Protection from WHOM? Who has a Navy even remotely able to threaten a US convoy? NOBODY. Nobody now, nobody tomorrow, nobody next year, nobody the next year.
Cajun
October 23rd, 2012
10:10 am
Tiberius
Did you lie when you linked Politifact to Soros?
Politifact is run by the Tampa Bay Times and published by the Times Publishing Company, which is owned by Poynter Institute.
Please verify any direct or indirect financial interests that would allow Soros to dictate what goes on at these organizations.
It is linked to Soros, right? Or did you lie?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
10:13 am
Cajun, I don’t play the “lie” game. Go back to your parent’s basement and grab another bag of Cheetos.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 23rd, 2012
10:13 am
Cons are like the elementary school kid with a dime in his pocket. Another elementary kid walks up with a nickle and offers to trade coin for coin and the Con agrees cause the nickel is bigger than the dime.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
10:15 am
What’s the matter, Finn? salon.com not providing you that information this morning?
Cajun
October 23rd, 2012
10:15 am
Tiberius
You made the assertion now back it up. You are a liar. And lied again when you said you do not play the “lie game”.
You do have the substantiated info, correct?
Thought so……… LIAR
Cajun
October 23rd, 2012
10:19 am
Tiberius in his attempt to say Politifact was far left went for the Soros card……
All well and good, but he can’t prove it. So speaking of “bias”; it might be best not to regurgitate information from biased sources or flat out lie as he did today……
Have a good one
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 23rd, 2012
10:21 am
Cajun thinks I’m a liar. Now I won’t be able to function for the rest of the day.
Isn’t that how it works with you libs? Maybe I’ll try to sign up for disability now, since my esteem has been so devastated . . .
Cajun
October 23rd, 2012
10:23 am
Tiberius
And yet to back up your assertion
Wonder why? You know why………….. It is because you LIED and knew it when you said it
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 23rd, 2012
10:25 am
Tib needs a bigger Navy cause those mean old Canadians scare the poo out of him.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 23rd, 2012
10:31 am
Romney’s 24 myths in 41 minutes:
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/debate-romney-told-24-myths-41-minutes
Peggy woods
October 23rd, 2012
11:42 am
I always enjoy your writing. I taught your dad in 3 rd grade…what a good student he was! I just lost my newspaper brother,Paul R Davis, which reminds me to thank you for what you do. Paul was a Lifetime journalist in Ala. I appreciate you newspaper folks who tell it like it is. I live in Decatur. I asked Pete some time ago if you were family.
bu2
October 23rd, 2012
12:02 pm
Interesting how many Dems liked his condescending line on ships and subs. I found that deeply offensive. Treating your opponent with disrespect simply indicates you lack an open mind to differing opinions and a reasonable explanation of your position (bayonets and horses was ok, but tacky-his condescending comments after that were what was bad-he looked unfit to be our president). Obama never explained why he could get by with less than 50% of what Reagan had and Romney never explained why they needed 313. Both were very shallow. Obama trying to show he could be as obnoxious as his VP and Romeny trying to avoid making a mistake.
bu2
October 23rd, 2012
12:05 pm
With his caustic style, its no wonder Obama failed to get his vast majority in the house and senate to pass a budget for the 1st time in US history. He lacks leadership skills and perspective. He keeps making W and Bill look better and better.
jay
October 24th, 2012
2:16 am
Enter your comments here
jay
October 24th, 2012
2:37 am
well not for nothing im pretty sure most people commenting on this debate had their minds made up before the debate even started so obviously you can easily be judgemental and pick out the small things that may bother you…neither the candidate nor the president is perfect and they both have their flaws, but i honestly believe obama handled his side just fine…of course its going to be a little condesending and maybe a little bit harsh, but im sure they both want to be in office just as much as the other…its a debate its going to be that way…their both going to be cut eachother down and try and make eachother seem horrible…ill be honest romney doesnt thrill me and bush doesnt disturb me…he hasnt done anything to make me hate him…and he favors the middle class…which is obvious most of the upper class is prolly the ones writting all these comments on here…honestly from the update and debate i was satisfied with the way obama played…general motors and the hole detroit banckruptcy ordeal and tax cuts..i mean the hole instagram satire was funny…but just makes obama administration seem desperate which i dont think they are…as oyu can see i would like to conversate about this right now but im sure ill get fired back on and crapped on for my comments but from the basic public view, a common interest is that we dont want to see a close fight…i dont think thatll win a change to romney…if he blew obama out of the water in everything then i could see it happening but im sure we can all agree nobody got blows out of the water…and its alright to like obama still after four years…give him another chance…and just a lil extra ryan for vp? thats one rediculous thing i can say for sure…obiden crapped on em he was begging for air