A spirited debate that ultimately won’t boost Obama
If President Obama needed a win — any kind of win, by any margin — in last night’s presidential debate, maybe he can claim victory. But if he needed a decisive win in which he regained the initiative by spelling out his vision for the next four years, he’ll have to wait until next week and hope the third time’s the charm.
For Obama did not win such a victory. Personally, I would have called it a draw at worst, because the best, most sustained argument all night came from Mitt Romney, talking about Obama’s economic record, in response to a man who asked the president why he should vote for him again. It was a withering recitation of the missed opportunities of Obama’s presidency. “We don’t have to live like this” and “we don’t have to settle for [insert specific item from Romney's list of Obamanomics miseries here]” were simple but powerful points about what voters overwhelmingly call the most important issue of this campaign. The fact that Romney was responding to a question from a black man, whose demographic has been described as unanimously in favor of Obama, only made his answer more effective.
In snap polls of undecided voters by both CBS News and CNN, Romney won on the economy question by almost a 2-to-1 margin, reminiscent of his debate drubbing of Obama in Denver on Oct. 3.
Overall, those surveyed by both CBS and CNN gave Obama a narrow victory. CBS had it at 37 percent saying Obama won, 30 percent saying Romney, and 33 percent calling it a draw. CNN: 46 percent Obama, 39 percent Romney, 15 percent tie.
In other words, on a night when he needed to regain the momentum, more than half of undecided voters did not say Obama won — and his pluralities not only were at or below his current level in national polls but were also within each poll’s margin of error. This was no thunderbolt like Romney’s Denver performance, which registered the largest margin of victory in Gallup’s history of polling debate results. Yes, Obama “showed some life.” But is this what the Planet-Healer and Sea-Lowerer has fallen to? Showing a pulse?
So, perceptions about the candidates haven’t altered much. Did either land any blows on substance?
Besides the economic monologue by Romney I already mentioned, there were few, if any, clear-cut victories. The Obama campaign will try to make hay out of the president’s sharp line about being “offended” by Romney’s suggestion that he or members of his administration were playing politics with the lethal attack on our consulate in Benghazi. But Obama also kept the issue alive by insisting he’d said terrorists were behind the attack as soon as the second day, when in fact his reference that day to “acts of terror” came after he mentioned the original 9/11 attacks and was not specifically applied to Benghazi. What’s more, Obama and members of his administration still kept referring to the anti-Islam YouTube video and the protests it allegedly sparked for weeks after the attacks; we now know the State Department knew very early on that there had been no such protests in Benghazi. Hashing this out in the press for even a couple of days more does not help Obama — and we’re bound to revisit the issue during next week’s debate, which specifically covers foreign policy.
On energy, both men essentially accused each other of lying about the facts on U.S. fossil-fuel production. National Journal notes that oil production on public land rose between 2008 and 2011, as Obama said — albeit possibly due to policies put in place by the Bush administration, given the lag time between policy making and the effect in the field — but there was less natural gas and coal from public land, as Romney said.
The back-and-forth about Romney’s tax plan covered little new ground, and each candidate can point to a study that supposedly proves his point. About the only thing new was Romney’s hint that taxpayers will have a cap for whichever deductions they choose to use. He emphatically promised more than once neither to raise taxes on the middle class nor to lower the tax burden on the wealthy. Obama could do little else but insinuate Romney would break these promises.
In all, the one big thing Romney did well was to keep the president tied firmly to his record in office, while the one big thing Obama failed to do was sketch out a vision for the next four years other than staying the course — a course, of course, of which a majority of Americans disapprove. Those are the two most relevant outcomes from the debate, and they don’t help the incumbent.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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406 comments Add your comment
Mr. Holmes
October 17th, 2012
9:33 am
Funny. In the echo chamber, it’s “at worst a draw.” Everywhere else, however…
The larger point, however, about the impact being undetermined, is certainly true.
They BOTH suck
October 17th, 2012
9:34 am
Kyle
Does CNN do just undecideds or registered voters?
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 17th, 2012
9:34 am
92 killed at American embassies under Reagan.
33 killed at American embassies under Bush.
4 killed at American embassies under Obama.
President Obama is right. He has the BEST record of defending our embassies.
Obama won big last night. All the polls reflected just that.
Its Kyles job to downplay it as much as possible but make no mistake.
Obama just assured his second term.
Henne
October 17th, 2012
9:35 am
According to Huffington Post, Obama nailed Romney to the wall last night. I was asleep during the whole thing.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 17th, 2012
9:35 am
Does CNN do just undecideds or registered voters?
Voters with a +8 margin to the republicans.
And Obama still won that poll.
They BOTH suck
October 17th, 2012
9:37 am
Kyle
CBS polled undecideds. If CNN does not do the same then you do not have an apples to apples comparison.
Either way it was a draw imo with each side probably having enough ammo to claim victory.
tiredofIT
October 17th, 2012
9:38 am
Romney’s constant flip-flops are becoming more apparent all of the time. The GOP should be embarrassed to be represented by this guy.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 17th, 2012
9:38 am
Voters with a +8 margin to the republicans.
And Obama still won that poll.
Notice Kyle will conveniently leave that out.
Wolf Blitzer had to admit that the of the people they polled there were many more Republicans.
And yet Obama still won.
Very telling.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 17th, 2012
9:39 am
The GOP should be embarrassed to be represented by this guy.
They aren’t. Not in the slightest.
They BOTH suck
October 17th, 2012
9:40 am
Cheesy Grits
My point is that if CNN is polling registered voters regardless of whether they are undecided or not and CBS is polling undecideds then it isn’t really a good comparison.
I can find where CNN states registered voters but not undecideds, but I could be wrong. That is why I am asking Kyle.
BW
October 17th, 2012
9:40 am
There are no undecided voters…period. They are leaning one way or the other and a debate will not ultimately sway them unless they are complete idiots.
As far as being decisive, we’ll see. It certainly is 1-1 over the two debates. This is going to be about ground game and turning out the base. I wonder if the polls post first debate were more about Obama supporters stepping out on a ledge or if it was genuine support for Romney. I think most people have made up their minds even before the debates regardless of what these polls may say, margin of error nonwithstanding.
Bob Loblaw
October 17th, 2012
9:42 am
Kyle, Romney was playing fast and loose on fuel production on Federal lands. Holding a lease until a company believes it is most profitable for them to begin drilling only raises fuel costs for the American consumer. The Feds locked down on the practice and Romney twisted it to look like the Administration was trying to stop production and increase demand on foreign oil. Romney’s face showed it. He got busted.
Romney used to stand in front of coal plants and directly link them to deaths of citizens of MA. Now, since the Koch Bros. are dumping millions all over America to defeat the President, he’s suddenly all for it.
You can’t believe a thing Romney says. Well, maybe you can believe it, but you can’t rely on it.
ApostasyUSA
October 17th, 2012
9:51 am
Take a $ 69 Billion Clinton surplus. Give a trillion Bush tax cuts to the wealthy, prosecute 2 unfunded global wars, an unfunded Medicare prescription add-on, fire deficity-hawk Treasury Sec. Paul O’neil saying as Cheney told him ‘Reagan proved deficits don’t matter’, keep Al Greenspan as Fed Chief when he couldn’t see a housing bubble mammothly growing till it pops, add a Defense industry and Lobby increasingly addicted to the public trough and voila! It’s all Obama’s fault, case closed.
Why do Republicans get away with being such fakes?
Like when they cried about that healthcare mandate? That evil, evil individual mandate. From where could such a terrible, senseless idea arise? Deep breath. The Heritage Foundation. Yes, a conservative think-tank. And who would ever adopt such a terrible principle in practice? Deeper breath. Mitt Romney.
Please… Conservatives and Republicans are the biggest fakes the world has ever known.
Republicans don’t really care about spending. Republicans only care about money that we spend on education and healthcare (things that actually improve society)…..but spending three trillion dollars we borrow from China on unnecessary war in Iraq…..Halliburton and Karl Marx approved!!
4500 dead Americans and 100,000+ innocent Iraqi civilians’ deaths later and now Republicans care about “life”? I think not…..
They might be able to rouse the bigots and some religious zealots telling others who they can’t marry but the Republican policies of lowering taxes and deregulating have unequivocally failed all but maybe 5% of Americans.
Republicans don’t actually stand for anything, and funny thing is, no one asks them to. Especially their hacks in the payola media, and the people who vote for them.
It’s time America votes in the Democrats to send the Republicans a message; it’s time to get real.
carlosgvv
October 17th, 2012
9:59 am
The question is not who won this debate. The question is how did we come to a point where The Presidency may be decided by who has the best stage presence and most salesmanship ability? How did style come to be more important than substance?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 17th, 2012
10:00 am
obozo said the exact same things last night that he said in 2008 when debating Bruno Clinton, think about that for a minute.
Zero accomplishments, bigger problems.
Mr. Holmes
October 17th, 2012
10:01 am
And again, the clearest evidence that Romney got it handed to him last night? Fox’s blaring headline this morning is essentially crying moderator bias.
Last time Fox was practically doing a victory dance down Pennsylvania Ave. Not today.
Glenn
October 17th, 2012
10:04 am
Of course it will boost Obama . He came across as strong and decisive . The third debate will be big .
Joe the Prophet
October 17th, 2012
10:04 am
ATTENTION GUN OWNERS…Mitt Romney wants to take your weapons..!! He did the same thing is Massachusetts..!!!
He wants to turn America into one big cultist colony, where all you can do is ride bikes, wear black neckties, and worship Joseph Smith. Forget about your Copenhagen, your Jack Daniels, and your daughters. They belong to him now..!!! This is EXACTLY why they ran him out of Massachusetts..!!!!
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
10:05 am
Kyle, I am beginning to be embarrassed for you. Your shameless lap dogging is becoming more apparent with every post. Willard got dusted. He tried to bully his way through the debate and Crowley was having none of it. Good for her. Why don’t you explain to us what “binders full of women” are? Why was Willard so red faced when he couldn’t have his way? Why aren’t you hammering your plutocrat master on his lack of details? All Willard has is a vague “5 point plan.” Even my grandma, who has Alzheimer’s can come up with one of those. If the President has a blind trust, how does Willard know about it? Have you gotten your magic underwear yet? Kiss your “surge” good bye. And stop peeing on the carpet or you will be put back in the crate, Willard is refusing to pay for cleaning up the mess.
Joe the Prophet
October 17th, 2012
10:07 am
Glenn
October 17th, 2012
10:04 am
Of course it will boost Obama . He came across as strong and decisive . The third debate will be big .
==================
Romney/Ryan is the weakest foreign policy ticket in American history.
Joe Biden – Senate Leader on Foreign Relations…Al Gore..Vietnam Veteran…Jimmy Carter…U.S. Naval Academy…Gerald Ford…Veteran…..Spiro Agnew…Veteran….Lyndon Johnson…Veteran…!!!!!!!
ZERO foreign policy experience on the Romney/Ryan ticket, but I heard Paul Ryan can see Canada from his house….Jobs don’t matter when America is under attack from it’s enemies…!!!!!!
ByteMe - Got ilk?
October 17th, 2012
10:07 am
It’s telling that there are many more “undecideds” at this point who lean Republican than there are those who lean Democrat. Romney can’t make the sale to his base by changing his positions to and fro.
My point is that if CNN is polling registered voters regardless of whether they are undecided or not and CBS is polling undecideds then it isn’t really a good comparison.
CBS found undecideds who agreed to watch; CNN took pretty much anyone registered to vote who would watch and respond.
I’d think both would also skew heavily westward, because who wants to stay up watching until 10:30 and then answer questions after that when they have to get the kids off to school at 6 am?
ByteMe - Got ilk?
October 17th, 2012
10:09 am
My take on the debate: Willard does better against an empty chair. So he clearly lost last night.
And people who think Romney has a plan and Obama has “no plan” need to figure out what “plan” actually means. Both have “ideas”, not a “plan”. Romney doesn’t trust us with the specifics of anything related to money, either his taxes or ours. Obama doesn’t reveal everything either.
Joe the Prophet
October 17th, 2012
10:10 am
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin…
October 17th, 2012
10:00 am
obozo said the exact same things last night that he said in 2008 when debating Bruno Clinton, think about that for a minute.
Zero accomplishments, bigger problems.
===============================
President Obama has killed 4 of the 5 top terrorists on America’s Most Wanted list, including Osama bin Laden…that is more than Bush/Cheney…!!!!! What has the bloated Mormon blunderbuss done..?!?!? Except put American lives in danger…!?!?!
Steven
October 17th, 2012
10:10 am
I did not even watch the debate. I do not believe for one single solitary moment that there are any undecideds out there. The undecideds may tell you they are undecided but I really believe they know for whom they are going to vote. So give me a break, these focus groups after the debate are a complete farce in my opinion.
If a debate helps a person decide who they are going to vote for, how shallow that person is. And I must say, we have so so so many shallow people in American electorate. I’m a Republican voting for the PREZ. My party has gone so far to the right where it is unsustainable. Yes there are some things that the POTUS has done or not done that I’m unhappy with but overall I’m satisfied that he’ll get my vote for four more years. My party, on the other hand, needs to come back to the center in the succeeding years. I so agree with less taxation and limited government. My party only sites this when it comes to the Entitlements but they will want government intervention when it comes to wars and the Middle East.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
10:10 am
Agreed. Obama needed to win big and he didnt. Momentum will continue to move over to the Romney side. The debate was a tie.
Joe the Prophet
October 17th, 2012
10:11 am
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY is going to take away my guns, my Jack Daniels, and my Copenhagen…!!!!!!
ByteMe - Got ilk?
October 17th, 2012
10:13 am
I’m a Republican voting for the PREZ. My party has gone so far to the right where it is unsustainable
There are people on that side of the aisle who would argue that just you saying that makes you a “lib”.
but they will want government intervention when it comes to wars and the Middle East.
And unnecessary trans-vaginal untrasounds.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 17th, 2012
10:14 am
Romney likes to talk about ” apology tour ” a lot as well.
But isn’t that exactly what he had to do when he went overseas ?
He had to apologize for something at every stop.
Including insulting our closest ally the UK.
He would be a foreign policy disaster.
MANGLER
October 17th, 2012
10:14 am
Did anyone else hear Romney say “Government does not create jobs!”. He yelled that over Obama. Kind of destroys his entire job creation platform of “creating” the 12 million jobs that economists say will be created anyway over the next several years. Play it back, he yelled that.
Oh, and if you are a woman who cares about her own reproductive rights and maybe a little bit about parody in the workplace, then I just don’t see how the hell you can vote for an ardant pro-life, why are you at work all day and not making dinner ticket (again, things Romney said).
TBone
October 17th, 2012
10:15 am
Based on the questions asked last night, I fail to see how any of these people are considered undecided. People who stand in the middle of the road eventually get run over. Obama is toast now that Honey BooBoo has endorsed him.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
10:15 am
Not even the RNC mouthpiece known as Fox News is brazen enough to make the leaps Kyle is today. Very telling. All they’ve got is “Willard isn’t who you think he is, and it’s the moderator’s fault.” Just like when Boy Blunder got blasted last week. “Our guys suck because of the moderator” And they wonder why all they have is poorly educated white men to lean on…
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
10:18 am
Agreed.
Team Uppity Muslim is in front (where it EC counts) and did not need to win big and they didn’t.
Team Money Boo Boo still trailing late in the fourth quarter. And their quarterback keeps stepping on his tongue…
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
10:19 am
Gravy, so apparently Ms. Crowley gang banged Mitt Romney?
Wow.
I’m lovin’ this Con Cabernet Sauvignon from Crybaby Vineyards this morning…
Georgia
October 17th, 2012
10:20 am
An poll of an unfocused group of undecideds, unlikely-to-votes and early absentees has revealed that we should tear up the constitution and start over.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
10:20 am
Next Monday Obama is going to hold Romney down and cut his hair.
RW-(the original)
October 17th, 2012
10:21 am
I’m pretty sure an “act of terror” isn’t just a phrase, it also has a legal definition. That legal definition requires premeditation which precludes a Youtube demonstration getting out of hand and becoming an “act of terror” so obviosly our Lawyer in Chief wasn’t talking about Benghazi.
It was nice of Candy Crowley to correct herself in front of the 6 people that watch CNN after blowing it in front of 60 million the first time around though.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
10:22 am
The Cons aren’t voting for Romney, they are voting for ABO (Anybody but Obama)
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
10:25 am
Teh quotes:
“Romney says he’s got a five-point plan. Governor Romney doesn’t have a five-point plan; he has a one-point plan. And that plan is to make sure that folks at the top play by a different set of rules. That’s been his philosophy in the private sector; that’s been his philosophy as governor; that’s been his philosophy as a presidential candidate. You can make a lot of money and pay lower tax rates than somebody who makes a lot less. You can ship jobs overseas and get tax breaks for it. You can invest in a company, bankrupt it, lay off the workers, strip away their pensions, and you still make money.”
ouch
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
10:27 am
Finn, hysterical.
Is he gonna get Candy to sit on Mittens while he clips away?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
10:27 am
Well, Kyle is showing some gumption by putting out his prediction on how this affects/does not affect Obama’s polling numbers.
Let’s look back here Monday morning to see he got it right.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
10:28 am
If you believe anything Willard says, then I would like to show you some magic underwear and billions of dollars invested in Chinese manufacturing.
How is investing billions “tough on China?” I mean it is tough on the workers, but just how tough is it on the most oppressive communist regime also known as Willard’s chief business partners?
Obama 2012
October 17th, 2012
10:29 am
This was a HUGE victory. Romney continued to flip flop and lie and I still don’t have a clue of what he is going to do to make this country better. He has a “Five Point Plan” that doesn’t tell me anything. I watched this county fall to pieces under Bush and when the President took office it was in complete free fall. I’ve watch over the last 4 years a president get the recession to bottom out and start job growth. I’ve watched him pass historic bills all while fighting with a republican majority (the last 2 years). We are creating jobs and getting the economy back where it needs to be.
Personally, I’ve bought my first home being approved for the same loan that I wasn’t when this country was under Bush. I watched lay off after lay off at my job in 2008-09. Yeah Obama was president but that was not from him. It was from what he took over when he became the President. I’ve watched my same company now higher over 100 people this year alone in my particular department. I’ve watched unemployment decrease. Why in the heck would I want to go with Romney.
More tax cuts for people like me, not for people rich like him. He is so out of touch he is willing to cut funding for PBS. He tells us to get money from our parents. He tells us 47 percent of people (students and soilders and our elderly) aren’t important to him. He tells women they can’t have pregnancy protection all while telling them not to go out and have kids. He tells us the problem with violence is not having 2 parents in the home. I’m working on my master’s and I only had my mom. I’m not out here shooting up the place with AKs.
Romney needs to get a clue and stop lying. He doesn’t represent me or most Americans out here. OBAMA 2012!! Let’s continue the growth of America.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
10:29 am
Something about Mormons and “binders full of women” doesn’t sound good.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
10:31 am
Anyone else notice how the ditto-heads are eerily silent this morning? They probably don’t get up this early anyway because the liquor stores aren’t open yet.
get a job
October 17th, 2012
10:32 am
Do any of these liberals whining this morning have jobs? Any of them?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
10:37 am
Do any of these liberals whining this morning have jobs?
No, we are job creators, we give you guys jobs. Now get back to work before I dip into your retirement account.
Obama 2012
October 17th, 2012
10:38 am
@ get a job October 17th, 2012 10:32 am
Aren’t you on the same blog blogging with the liberals? So either YOU also don’t have a job or you are on your job not working. Typical conservative. Don’t worry, you must can ask your parents for money when you come up short from not working.
jconservative
October 17th, 2012
10:38 am
Who won the debate is not the point.
The point is that this election, with this Incumbent, in this economy, with 4 years of trillion dollar deficits, is essentially tied 21 days before election day.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
10:40 am
The “binders full of women” and Willard’s insistence on bullying the President are not surprising if you are familiar with the practices of the Mormon cult. Blacks and women are at the bottom of the chain. Women are expected to be silent and obedient to the “priest” of the family. Yes, every male in the cult is considered to be a “priest.” There is no degree or theological training required. Another mormon man simply has to “lay his hands” on another mormon male to qualify him as a “priest.” Sadly, this is a very true statement. I’ll let them tell you what “laying of hands” means. I don’t roll that way. If only all of us had two rich parents who we could borrow money from, Willard would be the perfect president.
Drudge
October 17th, 2012
10:44 am
No fair – it was 2 against 1…
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
10:45 am
The stupid is strong on the lib side this morning.
Not an original thought yet this morning.
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
10:45 am
What’s more, Obama and members of his administration still kept referring to the anti-Islam YouTube video and the protests it allegedly sparked for weeks after the attacks; we now know the State Department knew very early on that there had been no such protests in Benghazi.
For anyone interested, here’s the entire transcript of Obama’s Rose garden speech following the Libyan attack.
http://www.forextv.com/forex-news-story/full-transcript-of-obama-s-rose-garden-speech-after-sept-11-benghazi-attack
If you will scroll down to paragraph 4, Obama makes reference to what he believes is the “cause” of the attack:
“Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. But there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts.”
So while Obama and his sidekick Candy Crowley continue to play word games, it is clear where the Obama Administration stood from Day 1. I can only hope that the Far Left media will tell the truth for once.
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
10:48 am
Not an original thought yet this morning.
Ti–All I saw last night on this blog was a bunch of mindless cheerleading from the Lefties last night. When challenged on specific points, all they could do was regurgitate false DNC talking points. If the group here is representative of the average Obama voters, it’s no wonder that our country is in trouble.
ragnar danneskjold
October 17th, 2012
10:48 am
As per my custom, I elected not to watch the game show. I understand that President Obama is now affirming that he immediately called the Benghazi attack “terrorist,” rather than “due to a video.” Remarkable.
Lambeau
October 17th, 2012
10:49 am
Two things that shows Obama knows he is in the wrong and that he doesn’t want the average American to know the truth:
1) He is trying to twist his words to make everyone think that he was calling the Benghazi attack a terrorist attack the day after it happened. This was not true and its a shame hes using semantics to try and justify why he kept going with the video excuse.
2) He waited until the very end to bring up the “47%” comment. This gave Romney no chance to explain and Obama knows that he is taking Romneys words out of context. Instead of allowing the other side to defend and have a discussion about the issue, Obama was a coward and took a cheap shot at the end.
It’s just a shame the president has to resort the such tactics to try and pull off a win. Yes I think Obama took a “victory” and it’s not an excuse when you say he had more time and was cut off many less times than Romney was (those are facts) but it was much closer than most Democrats are admitting. With Obama coming out all hot and bothered, of course it’s going to appear as though he won outright.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
10:51 am
From Thomas Sowell: “Economist Edward Lazear has cut through all of Barack Obama’s claims about “creating jobs” with one plain and inescapable fact — “there hasn’t been one day during the entire Obama presidency when as many Americans were working as on the day President Bush left office.” Whatever number of jobs were created during the Obama administration, more have been lost.”
Read that money quote again: “Whatever number of jobs were created during the Obama administration, more have been lost.”
The epitome of a failed economic policy.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
10:52 am
One last thing before the blog is overrun with old, white male, xenophobes and racists:
If Willard isn’t a career politician, why has he spent his whole life trying to be a politician? If Willard has such a sterling record as governor of Massachusetts, then why was he not re-elected for a second term? Why has Willard not learned from his first debate walloping at the hands of Ted Kennedy back in 1994? He got exposed for not having details then too.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
10:52 am
” If the group here is representative of the average Obama voters, it’s no wonder that our country is in trouble.”
They may be representative of the average Obama voter, Bruno, but they are distinctly below average Americans.
Georgia
October 17th, 2012
10:53 am
American society of the 19th century tried to exterminate every vestige of Mormonism with the same sense of Divine Will they used to justify the genocide of the Indians. America was sure that neither population deserved to exist. We still have a little of that in our national DNA, and that’s why Romney is as unelectable as Geronimo. The debates are for entertainment purposes only and any resemblance to any real issues is strictly coincidental.
Lambeau
October 17th, 2012
10:55 am
Also, a mistake from Obama when he said something along the lines of “Romney is a very successful investor”.
Del
October 17th, 2012
10:55 am
Candy Crawley saved Obama’s hindquarters on the Benghazi security failures but that I’m certain only gives Obama a brief reprieve until their final debate on foreign affairs where this issue will once again come up. Romney effectively challenged Obama on his attempts to dodge and lie about his actual reduction in drilling permits on federal land. He also got Obama on the economic issues, which Obama couldn’t defend. Obama attempted to borrow from Joe Bidens’s high school Harry playbook but only made himself appear foolish in his obvious attempt to mimic. We shall see how the needle may or may not move but Obama lost so much from his poor performance in the first debate that just being a bit more effective in last nights debate probably won’t buy him much.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
10:57 am
Truly stupid comments from our resident religious bigot this morning:
“If Willard isn’t a career politician, why has he spent his whole life trying to be a politician?”
Because he hasn’t. His first race for public office was senator from Massachusetts. His second one was for governor. Before that, he spend the majority of his lifetime in the PRIVATE sector. So he has ONE elected office in his reume, Gravy. One. Not even close to the definition of a career politician.
“If Willard has such a sterling record as governor of Massachusetts, then why was he not re-elected for a second term?”
Because he didn’t run for one. Idiot.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
10:58 am
It’s just a shame the president has to resort the such tactics to try and pull off a win.
whaaaaaaaaa
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
10:58 am
“Sure Willard is going to create jobs, too bad they’re all in China.”
Check mate.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
10:58 am
Wow, three religious bigots on the same blog.
Too bad some people just can’t advance in life.
RW-(the original)
October 17th, 2012
10:58 am
Tiberius…,
I’d say you buied the lede. The money quote was “there hasn’t been one day during the entire Obama presidency when as many Americans were working as on the day President Bush left office.”
Georgia
October 17th, 2012
10:59 am
After the first debate, America tried on Romney’s suit of clothes. They liked the sheen and the feel of the material, but last night, they pulled one loose thread and the sleeves fell off.
Ike
October 17th, 2012
10:59 am
Romney is so far ahead I won’t even have to go vote.
monty
October 17th, 2012
11:00 am
Obama simply doesn’t have a leg to stand on. He can’t show where his 4 years have improved the quality of life in America, it’s gotten worse and only a fool or someone with a political agenda to push would refuse to believe that. Will Romney pull us out of free fall? Who knows. But this current President has proven he doesn’t have a clue. Obama lied about calling it a terrorist attack the day after and the leftward leaning moderator saved his bacon. He won’t be so fortunate next week.Four more years of the same? No thanks. See ya at the polls.
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
11:00 am
It was a withering recitation of the missed opportunities of Obama’s presidency. “We don’t have to live like this” and “we don’t have to settle for [insert specific item from Romney's list of Obamanomics miseries here]” were simple but powerful points about what voters overwhelmingly call the most important issue of this campaign.
Kyle–As I’ve been saying all along, “All politics is local”. People are going to vote with their pocketbook, period. And, as poll after poll shows, Americans trust Romney far more than Obama to lead us to prosperity.
Blog prediction: If Romney is elected and the economy improves, the Libs will claim until their dying day that Obama should get credit for laying the groundwork.
Lambeau
October 17th, 2012
11:01 am
Finn, If Obama has a strong case in EITHER of the two points I brought up, why would he try and dodge them and why would he wait until there can be no discussion on the “47%”? If he or his party felt they had a strong/winning case in those areas then he would tackle the issues head on.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
11:02 am
Del you can switch a lot of your words out with “Navy Seals” and “Bin Laden”.
In other words, Obama in no way played any role in the success of that event.
Latino Voter
October 17th, 2012
11:02 am
I was really disappointed with both candidates as they spent more time arguing with each other than answering the questions. When they were not arguing, I thought that Romney did a better job explaining his course of action and because of that and the professionalism portrayed by Paul Ryan in the VP debate they will get my vote.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
11:02 am
For Tibi:
From Red State:
“He could have. He wasn’t term limited. There was no legal reason that prevented Mitt Romney for running for reelection. So, why didn’t Mitt Romney run for a second term as governor of Massachusetts?
He would have lost. And, not just lost by a little. He would have been creamed.
Romney won his first term with about 49% of the vote. After 4 years in office he had a 30% approval rating–30%.
You can’t blame this on Romney being a Republican. Massachusetts, when it comes to electing governors, is friendly to Republicans. For 16 straight years Massachusetts elected nothing but Republican governors (Weld, Cellucci, Swift, and Romney).
Yet, it only took one Romney term to destroy this Republican popularity streak.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
11:03 am
Finn, If Obama has a strong case in EITHER of the two points…</i?
You serve cheese with that whine?
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
11:05 am
There is no degree or theological training required. Another mormon man simply has to “lay his hands” on another mormon male to qualify him as a “priest.” Sadly, this is a very true statement.
In case you’re unaware, Gravy Train, there are no legal requirements for any person to call themselves a “minister”, “priest” or even “bishop”. It’s the same for all faiths. But, I’m sure you won’t let that fact get in the way of your asinine rants.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
11:05 am
. Romney’s response had nothing to do with women’s inequalities, but everything to do with his bizarre quest to find “qualified women” for his campaign, which apparently was so difficult that he had to collect “binders full” of those things called “women.”
salon.com
LOL
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
11:06 am
“He would have lost. And, not just lost by a little. He would have been creamed.”
Pure conjecture on your part. There s a HUGE difference between a sitting “approval rating” when not campaigning and one during an ongoing campaign.
You do not know anything you are talking about, Gravy.
As usual.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
11:07 am
Finn, why do you continue to post that nonsense from salon.com?
No one but the brainwashed faithful believe that stuff.
Rightwing Troll
October 17th, 2012
11:08 am
“Zero accomplishments, bigger problems.”
Better economy than 4 years ago, better employment than 4 years ago, OBL is dead, GM is alive, Stock market has practically doubled from where it was 4 years ago…
Maybe in your angry little corner of the world things aren’t better, but everywhere else they are…
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
11:08 am
So a 30% approval rating equals a sterling record? Only in the minds of those who think George Bush (34% approval rating) was great too. You guys can’t really be that stupid?
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
11:09 am
Tibi, go change your magic underwear, they’ve lost their mojo.
adam smith's invisible hand
October 17th, 2012
11:10 am
If Romney was such a great gov. of Mass, then why didn’t he think he could get re-elected for a second term? If Romney was such a great gov. of Mass., then why is he trailing Obama by 15 or more points in the polls there? I guess to know him is to loathe him.
Lambeau
October 17th, 2012
11:10 am
Really Finn? Say that Im whining right here? I’m not whining at all but bringing up a valid point. Why doesn’t Obama want to tackle the issues head on? Why is he avoiding them? When you dont have an answer to those you resort to saying im whining. Very mature. Come back when you can join in grown-up talk.
Just Saying..
October 17th, 2012
11:11 am
Credit Romney at least with using Binders full of Cons to take the nomination he needed to become the Centrist-right candidate for President.
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
11:11 am
Gravy Train: If Willard has such a sterling record as governor of Massachusetts, then why was he not re-elected for a second term?
Ti: Because he didn’t run for one. Idiot.
Gravy Train: He would have lost. And, not just lost by a little. He would have been creamed.
Ti–Hard to argue with “logic” like that.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
11:12 am
Too bad none of that is “my words.” They are the words of your pals at red slate. Cue the price is right loser sound effects!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
11:13 am
“Better economy than 4 years ago,”
Being the tallest if the midgets doesn’t get you on the basketball team.
“better employment than 4 years ago,”
Actually, less people working today than 4 years ago, and more people not even looking anymore.
“OBL is dead,”
1 accomplishment.
“GM is alive,”
And would have been if it had gone through private restructuring, and we wouldn’t have incurred more debt.
“Stock market has practically doubled from where it was 4 years ago…”
Which has almost nothing to do with the overall health of our economy.
But other than that, Troll, you nailed it!
JDW
October 17th, 2012
11:13 am
@Kyle…”A spirited debate that ultimately won’t boost Obama”
Make yourself feel better if you wish, but the hard cold fact is he didn’t need a boost…all he really needed was status quo. Now given the whole $5 Trillion tax cut boondoggle it is obvious Republicans aren’t great at math, but even they understand that if they lose Ohio its over. They could lose Ohio and keep it close enough to whine but they won’t win.
So given that, all that is needed is to maintain the lead in Ohio and last night was enough to accomplish that goal. I think it was better than that, but it doesn’t have to be.
Georgia you are racist liar!
October 17th, 2012
11:13 am
Iggy,
Take that cry towel out of your @$$ and wipe your face with it because lying,filp flopping Mitt got his @$$ whip last night. There is no doubt you are are repubilcan because you wouldn’t know the truth if came up and slap you in the face with your @$$ wipe crying towel. The sad part is your party is built on racism and lies and you people don’t care. On another note, Mitt has only 2 segment of the voting population White people and Racist white people. Obama has white, black, asian, hispanic, women and gays, If you do the math, oh wait you can’t count, there is no way in hell Mitt will win. the numbers don’t add up punk!!!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
11:14 am
“If Romney was such a great gov. of Mass, then why didn’t he think he could get re-elected for a second term?”
How do you know he didn’t run for that reason, adam smith?
Answer: Because you don’t know why he didn’t run, do you?
Rightwing Troll
October 17th, 2012
11:14 am
“Blog prediction: If Romney is elected and the economy improves, the Libs will claim until their dying day that Obama should get credit for laying the groundwork.”
Is that similar to the wingnuts claiming until their dying day that the groundwork laid by W had nothing to do with the economy of the last couple years? Or that Clinton laid the groundwork for 9/11 and W laid the groundwork for the killing of OBL?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
11:15 am
“So a 30% approval rating equals a sterling record?”
No, a sterling record equals a sterling record.
An approval rating is just random opinion.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
11:15 am
For all you ditto-heads:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A
iggy
October 17th, 2012
11:17 am
You could see it in Obamas eyes. He is tired, bored, befuddled, dumbstruck, in over his head and he knows it. The same ole diatribes keep tumbling from his mouth. He has nothing new to say and nothing better to do then further ruin the USA.
Cherokee
October 17th, 2012
11:17 am
Nice try Kyle, but I don’t blame you – I tried the same self deception after the last debate.
A clear win for President Obama. And for America, for that matter.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
11:17 am
“Make yourself feel better if you wish, but the hard cold fact is he didn’t need a boost…all he really needed was status quo.”
I’m sorry, but when did the “status quo” become dropping steadily in the polls, JDW?
iggy
October 17th, 2012
11:18 am
“Mitt will win”
Agreed!!! Mitt will win. Would you prefer a white, brown or black crying towel?
Georgia
October 17th, 2012
11:20 am
It’s now clear that the spin is more important than the win. Polls are showing that voters are like candles in the media-spin wind. All sixty million viewers are commenting on the sixty million blogs that they’ve all started for each other. Here comes everybody, folks.
MarkV
October 17th, 2012
11:20 am
It is quite amazing how some people, in this case Lambeau @10:49 am, can twist truth into a lie and vice versa.
“He is trying to twist his words to make everyone think that he was calling the Benghazi attack a terrorist attack the day after it happened. This was not true and its a shame hes using semantics to try and justify why he kept going with the video excuse.”
Here are Obama’s words from the Rose Garden speech: “No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America.
There is no “using semantics.” Obama clearly connected the death of four Americans in Benghazi with “act of terror.”
This accusation comes from a person who claimed that Obama continued to lie to American people in his UN speech, but cannot find a single sentence fromm that speech that can be shown to be a lie.
JF McNamara
October 17th, 2012
11:21 am
I actually thought that Romney won not that I would ever vote for him. He’s switched positions on a lot of issues and basically disavows his record from anything over a month ago. I just don’t know who the guy is, and the only thing he ever produced that seems authentic is his 47% rant.
He could go a long way by putting pen to paper and coming out with a detailed economic plan where he actually gives specifics on what deductions would be cut. Obama was spot on when he called him out on that.
Del
October 17th, 2012
11:22 am
Finn,
If Romney just sticks to the facts regarding the OBL take down there’s a far greater chance that Obama could really step in it should he attempt to once again thump his chest during the final debate. Fact is that all Obama did was green light the operation and in actuality he had no other choice. Most of the intelligence heavy lifting had occurred prior to Obama setting foot in the Oval Office. The final piece of intel that Identified OBL’s courier cell phone contact with him and thus his location couldn’t be discounted. If Obama had failed to green light the operation word of his failure would have leaked and he would have been political toast.
Rightwing Troll
October 17th, 2012
11:23 am
“Being the tallest if the midgets doesn’t get you on the basketball team.”
Depends on the team…
“Actually, less people working today than 4 years ago, and more people not even looking anymore.”
Depends on who you get your “facts” from… Faux news doesn’t count.
“1 accomplishment.”
Bless your heart, I know it near killed you having to type that…
“And would have been if it had gone through private restructuring, and we wouldn’t have incurred more debt.”
We’d have spent the money one way or the other, if GM had gone under there would’ve been a large number of jobs tertiary to GM’s manufacturing that would’ve vaporized as well… so instead of giving unemployment to folks out of work, we kept them working.
“Which has almost nothing to do with the overall health of our economy.”
Wall Street and the American public disagree… when the market is down, the economy is down, when it rises the economy rises as well…
“But other than that, Troll, you nailed it! ”
Thanks, but I really didn’t need your affirmations when I had the facts on my side…
TBone
October 17th, 2012
11:27 am
I particularly scratched my head when the undecided voter asked the question to Romney how he would compare himself to GW Bush. Yeah that’s the question “undecideds” have alright. And you Ozombies enjoy the last weeks of your guy.
Dearie
October 17th, 2012
11:29 am
I wish these Comments had a “Like” button similar to Facebook. There are so many that are well written, say exactly what I would like to say, and would keep Comments stream lined.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
11:30 am
TBS @ 9:34: CNN polled undecideds last time and I thought I read that they did this time, but apparently this CNN poll was of registered voters who watched the debate. Not even likely voters. So there certainly is a qualitative difference between the two polls; my apologies for stating otherwise.
Given the emphasis on undecideds at this point, as well as the typical edge Democrats have with registered (vs. likely) voters, I’d say this means the CBS poll has more value as far as who benefited most from the debate — meaning it was even closer to a draw than I previously indicated.
Tealiban Party
October 17th, 2012
11:30 am
If the Republicans had such great ideas, then they should talk about them instead of parsing and misconstruing President Obama’s words (i.e. Acts of Terror, Build That).
Instead Mitt and the Republicans, devoid of any new ideas and unable to provide details about how those ideas come to fruition, concentrate on deconstructing a few sentences in a speech.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
11:31 am
Cheesy @ 9:34: “Obama won big last night. All the polls reflected just that.”
There you go again…
So now a plurality within the margin of error is “big”? When does this Cheesy Dictionary of the Parallel Universe’s English Language come out in print? Or are you only going to serialize it here in comments on my blog?
Matz
October 17th, 2012
11:31 am
Know who else has binders full of women? Serial killers.
Get Real
October 17th, 2012
11:32 am
Both bases will consider it a win for their candidate, as we all know it is all about “the undecided”…it is really hard to believe there are any but supposedly there is…anyway, it will take a few days post debate for those opinions to be formed and assessed….stay tuned
Lambeau
October 17th, 2012
11:33 am
MarkV at 11:20… you really just don’t get it do you? You are so enamored with Obama that you can’t see a fault. You AND Obama are using semantics to try and escape the issues. He clearly used the video as an excuse in his UN Speech and he did not acknowledge it was a *planned terrorist act* until several weeks after it happened. You can beat this dead horse you were trying at yesterday as long as you want but it doesn’t make you right.
Beyond The Middle of the Road
October 17th, 2012
11:33 am
While the Vice Presidential and second Presidential debates were mostly even, I think you’ve overlooked one key factor. They have raised the enthusiasm of the President’s base which took a hit after the first Presidential debate. Increasing the turnout of your own supporters is about as important as swaying the undecideds.
Rightwing Troll
October 17th, 2012
11:33 am
“Fact is that all Obama did was green light the operation and in actuality he had no other choice. Most of the intelligence heavy lifting had occurred prior to Obama setting foot in the Oval Office. ”
So W knew where the man was and chose NOT to act (again, like at Tora Bora)???!?? And then Obama sat on this for 2 years?
Here, you’ll probably believe this: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osama_dead.php
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
11:33 am
And here: “Voters with a +8 margin to the republicans.”
No, the party IDs were even. Your “+8 margin to the republicans” comes from the fact CNN has been sampling +8 to the Democrats in all its other polls. Which is more of a partisan split than the D’s had in the wave election of 2008. If you believe this electorate is going to look even more pro-Democrat than this one, it’s no wonder you believe some of the other things you believe.
Matz
October 17th, 2012
11:34 am
Guns don’t kill people. Single mothers kill people.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
11:36 am
carlosgvv @ 9:59 raises a good question. But my guess is it’s always been this way, to some degree.
JDW
October 17th, 2012
11:36 am
@Tiberius…as I said make yourself feel better if you wish…BTW how is it that the beloved former Governor of MA currently trails in the polls there by 15-20 points…seems odd for someone that did such a “bang up” job.
Tealiban Party
October 17th, 2012
11:37 am
Matz
October 17th, 2012
11:34 am
Guns don’t kill people. Single mothers kill people.
Ha! Good one Matz. Wonder how many others picked up on such tangential Romney thoughts last night.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
11:38 am
I am also very amused at the liberal incredulousness about “binders full of women.” The context in Romney’s answer explains it all: he asked for, and received, a lot of female candidates for his cabinet positions. My guess is they’re harping on this somewhat awkward phrasing because they don’t want anyone to notice that he talked about his track record of hiring women to high positions.
Matz
October 17th, 2012
11:38 am
Obama courageously dispels a stereotype:
“I don’t look at my pension, its not as big as yours.”
Matz
October 17th, 2012
11:40 am
Tealiban Party,
Romney needed to take a jab at single mothers to stroke his base. That he chose the assault weapon question as the opening to use could be the subject of extensive psychoanalysis.
Del
October 17th, 2012
11:40 am
“So W knew where the man was and chose NOT to act (again, like at Tora Bora)???!?? And then Obama sat on this for 2 years?”
It’s obvious you don’t know very much about the lead up to the SEAL Team operation.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
11:41 am
Obama 2012 @ 10:29: ” Let’s continue the growth of America.”
You mean the anemic job growth or the anemic economic growth?
Tealiban Party
October 17th, 2012
11:42 am
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
11:38 am
My guess is they’re harping on this somewhat awkward phrasing because they don’t want anyone to notice that he talked about his track record of hiring women to high positions.
You’re right Kyle. We should examine his track record at Bain….
“Romney, however, did not have a history of appointing women to high-level positions in the private sector. Romney did not have any women partners as CEO of Bain Capital during the 1980s and 1990s.”
http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/10/16/fact-check-romney-record-hiring-women/r3gqpykaQudNNqigmLZfuJ/story.html?camp=misc:on:twit:mostpop
iggy
October 17th, 2012
11:43 am
Cheesy dictionary….lol.
Amongst the many things our Grand Poobah refuses to disclose he now denys his pension plan, stocks etc. I bet all his monies are in his kenyan piggy bank.
So sad he tells so many whoppers.
JDW
October 17th, 2012
11:44 am
@Kyle…”I am also very amused at the liberal incredulousness about “binders full of women”
Well outside of the fact I think women will find it offensive, the question was what was he planning to do to support women in the workplace now unless he is going to have a very big cabinet he didn’t help himself with the answer.
Don't Tread
October 17th, 2012
11:45 am
“How did style come to be more important than substance?” Has been since the 90s, and “style” has become increasingly more important since television became affordable to the masses. Dumbing down education hasn’t helped either.
As predicted, the moderator was biased towards Obama, but given her background information, were we expecting a different result?
Del
October 17th, 2012
11:45 am
I think at this point the only undecided’s are those who voted for Obama in 08 undecided if they’ll bother going to the polls and vote for him again this time.
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
11:46 am
You mean the anemic job growth or the anemic economic growth?
Yep, because after the attempted corporate destruction of capitalism and the biggest economic meltdown in four generations – to the tune of $10Trillion – Republicans would have just snapped their magic fingers and everyone would be on easy street.
This sucker could go down. ~George W. Bush, September 2008
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
11:47 am
JF @ 11:21: And what are Obama’s specific plans?
jconservative
October 17th, 2012
11:48 am
“He waited until the very end to bring up the “47%” comment.”
I believe Romney actually brought up the 47% matter when he made the following remarks in answer to the last question.
“I care about 100 percent of the American people. I want 100 percent of the American people to have a bright and prosperous future.”
Then in his answer to the question Obama made his remarks on the 47% as follows.
“I believe Governor Romney is a good man. Loves his family, cares about his faith. But I also believe that when he said behind closed doors that 47 percent of the country considered themselves victims who refuse personal responsibility, think about who he was talking about.”
At least that is what I thought when I heard Romney use the phrase the 100% twice. But then again, I was looking for Obama to bring up the 47% matter.
Jeffrey
October 17th, 2012
11:49 am
A course, of course?
H.E. Pennypacker
October 17th, 2012
11:49 am
This reminds me of Kyle’s earlier assessment of the two political conventions, where I am paraphrasing, but he stated they were pretty much a draw, except he would hand the advantage to Romney for displaying his “soft side”. We now know that the conventions played a contributing factor in an Obama surge, (also fed by the 47% video), which was only arrested when President Obama sleepwalked through the first debate.
I do not expect a similar polling advantage to commence after last night, but Democrats should take comfort whenever Kyle calls something a draw.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
11:50 am
JDW @ 11:44: Why, exactly, would women be offended that Romney asked his staff to seek out female candidate for jobs, they returned with lots of them, and he hired a number of them?
The only answer is that the left is trying to focus on one snippet of his answer rather than the whole thing.
stands for decibels
October 17th, 2012
11:50 am
The context in Romney’s answer explains it all: he asked for, and received, a lot of female candidates for his cabinet positions.
Apparently not, actually. The “asked for” part, at least. If this account is to be believed.
What actually happened was that in 2002 — prior to the election, not even knowing yet whether it would be a Republican or Democratic administration — a bipartisan group of women in Massachusetts formed MassGAP to address the problem of few women in senior leadership positions in state government. There were more than 40 organizations involved with the Massachusetts Women’s Political Caucus (also bipartisan) as the lead sponsor.
They did the research and put together the binder full of women qualified for all the different cabinet positions, agency heads, and authorities and commissions. They presented this binder to Governor Romney when he was elected.
I have written about this before, in various contexts; tonight I’ve checked with several people directly involved in the MassGAP effort who confirm that this history as I’ve just presented it is correct — and that Romney’s claim tonight, that he asked for such a study, is false.
(I do agree that some are going way overboard on the “binders” business though.)
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
11:51 am
Is that similar to the wingnuts claiming until their dying day that the groundwork laid by W had nothing to do with the economy of the last couple years? Or that Clinton laid the groundwork for 9/11 and W laid the groundwork for the killing of OBL?
In case you’re unaware, Troll, and I’m sure you are, there’s a huge difference between correlation and causation . Correlation simply means that one event preceded another, with no connection of the events other than temporally. In order to show causation, there has to be some kind of mechanism by which one can show that the first event was directly responsible for the second event.
In the case of 9/11, a lot of folks point to the fact that Clinton gutted our intelligence forces during his time in office, thus handicapping Bush coming in to office. Furthermore, Clinton did little to thwart terrorism world-wide during his tenure, allowing al-Quaeda to grow unchecked.
Per the economic meltdown of 2008, the direct cause was the housing market meltdown, the seeds of which were sown prior to Bush taking office. Specifically, the legislation which allowed banks to engage in high-risk investments was signed by Bill Clinton. More immediately, Bush and other top Republicans began sounding the warning bells about FannieMae and FreddieMac by 2007, but the Dems who were in charge of the banking committees by then, Frank and Dodd, willfully ignored the warnings until it was too late.
As for Bush sharing some of the credit for the killing of Bin Laden, the intelligence which led to his discovery did, in fact, originate prior to Obama taking office.
Now, as far as Obama’s policies somehow improving our economy, I’ll simply invite you to make a case for that. The stimulus moneys spent created almost no immediate results. At the same time, numerous CEOs have publicly stated that the uncertainty created by Obamacare, new onerous regulations and Obama’s anti-business sentiments have caused them to hold back on business expansion.
stands for decibels
October 17th, 2012
11:52 am
I believe Romney actually brought up the 47% matter when he made the following remarks in answer to the last question.
I actually turned to Mrs. sfd and said during Romney’s closing: “Why on earth is he bringing THAT up, now? Obama hasn’t said a peep about it.”
Of course, maybe he had some reason to imagine that Obama would close with it, but still… pretty risky.
Lambeau
October 17th, 2012
11:52 am
j, Romney had to try and do some preemptive “damage control” at that point because he knew Obama would bring it up in his closing argument where Romney couldn’t retort. Again, my point is that if Obama really had a strong case he would approach the matter head on.
md
October 17th, 2012
11:52 am
Typical Obama, claiming credit when none is due and pointing the finger of blame at others. Anyone else notice the “I ended the war in Iraq” statement?
No mention whatsoever that Bush negotiated and signed the SOFA with Iraq prior to leaving office……shows a major lack of character for Obama as far as I’m concerned.
Matz
October 17th, 2012
11:54 am
A binder full of women sells for 77 cents, while a binder full of men sells for a dollar.
HRPufnstuf
October 17th, 2012
11:55 am
Still no specifics on Romney’s tax plan. At this stage of the game, he isn’t going to tell us, and will keep trying to pull the wool over people’s eyes. Don’t Republicans want the specifics? Romney can’t keep saying “I’m going to change the tax code and eliminate loopholes and deductions”, and not say what he’s going to change. I want specifics!
iggy
October 17th, 2012
11:56 am
Thats cuz men are worth more than women.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
11:56 am
Kyle, the guy set up a task force to go find qualified women to serve. Did he not know any? None of his underlings knew any?
“I need some African Americans and Hispanics in my administration. Boys, fetch me some binders.”
Completely out of touch.
NoBodyYouKnow
October 17th, 2012
11:57 am
Hey “cheesy grits”, you didn’t mention Jimmy “peanut” Carters record on how many Americans were killed in his Chic. Sh. administration. What a wimp. O’bama got his dander up when that incident was brought up. Wonder why? Because his leaderships decision on that matter failed. He was too busy going on the VIEW, and Letterman.How in this world ANYBODY can support this guy after all has been brought out about him baffels me? He has no experiance in anything. His education is in Law. Many questons still remain about where and when he attended school. His past has always been in queston. His close friendships with radical socialist. Him attending a church where a pastor cusses and damns America. And after being a member there 20 yrs. and that pastor marrys him he has the gall to say he never heard that man say that? A large majority of Americans were 100% against that healthcare bill and he shoves it through anyway. His statement “the healthcare bill will not cost a cent more”. He confiskates a large amount of money from the medicare program to pay for his Obamacare. The AJC has already said there will be a shotage of doctors in the next 3 to 5 years. The article didn’t say but we all know doctors are getting out of their practice because of that stupid bill. BUT GO AHEAD VOTE FOR THE MAN WITH THE BIG SMILE AND SMOOTH TALKING. Hey he sure can make a great speech. MSNBC loves the guy. Romney’s a much better educated, experianced, and knowledgeable man.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
11:57 am
Pennypacker @ 11:49 conveniently leaves out this portion of my assessment of the conventions:
“But that [very slight edge to Romney] just as well could have been neutralized by greater enthusiasm for Obama among his base, which clearly was the target audience all week.”
Obama ended up with a 2-point bounce out of the conventions. So the base-rousing more than neutralized Romney’s effort, but only by a bit and only temporarily. I was off, but not that far off.
Matz
October 17th, 2012
11:58 am
Thats cuz men are worth more than women.
Unless they’re bundled together in binders. Like Romney’s grandaddy did.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
11:58 am
Instead of offering a fact on his tax plan, Romney throws out a made up number of 25%?????
What are we supposed to do with that? If his numbers don’t add up we can’t hold his feet to the fire.
Is Romney being vague on everything so he doesn’t get hit with a list like Obama has of failed campaign promises and such?
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
11:59 am
sfd @ 11:52: “maybe he had some reason to imagine that Obama would close with it”
That’s all I can come up with. I thought it was risky, too. But probably riskier not to say anything and leave it totally unaddressed … he had to think Obama wouldn’t go the entire debate without mentioning it.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
12:00 pm
I just want the binders of Thai women. K, thanks…
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:00 pm
Finn @ 11:56: Are you saying you’d prefer that he hadn’t hired the women?
Del
October 17th, 2012
12:00 pm
Bruno,
Keep it down some, you know how facts upset the delusional mind sets of our blog friends on the left.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 17th, 2012
12:00 pm
Better economy than 4 years ago, better employment than 4 years ago, OBL is dead, GM is alive, Stock market has practically doubled from where it was 4 years ago…
What planet are you dialing in from today, Troll?
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:00 pm
HRPufnstuf: Same question I posed to JF @ 11:47: What are the specifics of Obama’s plans?
iggy
October 17th, 2012
12:02 pm
“just want the binders of Thai women. K, thanks…”
LOL
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
12:03 pm
!s Romney being vague on everything because he truly does not know what he is talking about?
It sure looks that way.
The legacy of trickle down madness and voodoo economics that have
skyrocketedflatlined our working class wages for the past thirty years.Long Live the Plutocracy!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
12:04 pm
Finn @ 11:56: Are you saying you’d prefer that he hadn’t hired the women?
Well, can you READ, Kyle? Did I say that??
It’s all about his approach to hiring women. Boys, let’s order up some women folk. Gather yer binders.
How about “Boys, get me some Burgundy wine for Xmas dinner. I don’t want any of that Bordeaux wine.”
Matz
October 17th, 2012
12:04 pm
Binder? I just MET her!!
md
October 17th, 2012
12:04 pm
” Romney can’t keep saying “I’m going to change the tax code and eliminate loopholes and deductions””
He can if he understands that it is a framework and that a divided congress will be the ultimate deciders of what stays and what goes………it’s doubtful if Romney wins he will have both chambers of congress and will be unable to cram through legislation such as Obamacare……..
Beyond The Middle of the Road
October 17th, 2012
12:05 pm
Yeah, the “binder” backlash is pretty equivalent to the “didn’t build that” one. Both sides like to quote out of context to try and score points.
Don
October 17th, 2012
12:06 pm
Polls? Before the 1rst debate Obama was kicking Mitt’s butt. After the debate Romney’s numbers were great. What happened to all those polls that were deliberately skewed toward Obama? Funny now that has become a non-issue.
Kyle, you have always been a lap dog for conservatives. This article is no different.
Will the real Mitt Romney please stand up!
MarkV
October 17th, 2012
12:07 pm
Regarding the effect of these debates on the election result, the outcome will depend on whether more voters will believe in illusions that Romney has been selling. Because all his critique of Obama’s performance, as well as Romney’s promises, are illusions (illusion -(1): a misleading image presented to the vision (2): something that deceives or misleads intellectually.)
Implicit in all those Romney’s recitations of the current economic woes is the claim that Obama should have done better and got better results. That is, of course, an illusionary claim that Romney cannot support by any facts. The same is true about any plans and promises he is making. Perhaps Obama should take a page from Romney’s book and counter everything Romney promises by saying that he will do even better. The platitudes that Romney calls his programs are nothing but illusion, which one can only believe or not believe.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
12:08 pm
Obamas last evening reactions to Romney was akin to Navin Johnsons reactions to those cans.
“Hey, these cans are defective…..wah wah wah…He HATES these cans…MORE CANS!!!!”
Matz
October 17th, 2012
12:08 pm
Thank you binders and gentlemen. You’ve been a delightful audience. We’re here every night through the election.
PLEASE, tip your waitress.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:10 pm
As predicted, The Vice President set the stage by destroying ryan and our President finished off mitt.
mitt lost women because he is not for equal pay.
mitt lost Latinos by calling them undocumented illegals.
mitt lost on Libya and our President scolded him on how to act like Americans. Good advice for you cons too.
mitt disrespected and insulted 47% of the American people.
mitt will lose big.
MarkV
October 17th, 2012
12:12 pm
Lambeau @11:33 am
In other words, you still cannot provide any evidence for your lie, but are incapable of admitting that.
Del
October 17th, 2012
12:12 pm
President Mitt Romney just sounds more American than President Barack Obama. Something else to look forward to in 013.
Taqweeshea
October 17th, 2012
12:12 pm
My overall impression was that Obama won slightly on style and that Romney won by a significant margin on substance.
If you listened, Mitt addressed the specifics on nearly every question and Barack kept gravitating to long-winded, off point generalities. On the gun control issue, for example, BHO strayed so far into his yawn inducing narrative about public education that the mod had to remind him the question was about guns.
JDW
October 17th, 2012
12:13 pm
@Kyle…its not so much that I think women are offended as it appears that they are.
It was terrible phrasing…he said “they brought us whole binders full of women”. He did not say we made a concerted effort to find qualified candidates or we sought resumes…he makes it sound like they keep them in the closet until needed.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:14 pm
mitt will be gone in a couple of weeks.
You have to act like Americans to win the White House.
I suggest you cons start acting like Americans for 16.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
12:15 pm
Actually Willard said he would cap deductions “at, let’s say $25,000, and you can chose which to keep,” direct quote. Who in the middle class does he know that has $25,000 worth of deductions already? What if your income is at or less than $25,000? He can’t even get real off the cuff! Kyle, how are those magic underwear working out for you? Seems like such a trivial thing to sell your soul for.
They BOTH suck
October 17th, 2012
12:16 pm
Kyle
Thanks for the follow up. I doubt it moves the needle much either way when looking at the overall debate, however I did want to verify if there was a difference in the two polls.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:17 pm
Gravy @ 12:15: Are you suggesting people in the middle class have less than $25K worth of deductions?
And if so, wouldn’t that necessarily mean their taxes aren’t going up, if their rate goes down and they won’t lose any deductions?
adam smith's invisible hand
October 17th, 2012
12:17 pm
Why would any sane person think that Romney, with the same advisors and policies as GWBush, would have a different result than GWBush? I’ve seen cons use the definition of crazy – repeating the same action and expecting a different result – but I guess you think it doesn’t apply to you.
md
October 17th, 2012
12:17 pm
“Yeah, the “binder” backlash is pretty equivalent to the “didn’t build that” one.”
Not even close…….Obama is still clueless about how gov’t is a drag on the private sector……the private sector built(funded) it ALL, might want to remember that.
Don
October 17th, 2012
12:17 pm
Jam Vet, I was expecting Obama to call Romney’s economic plan just that, voodoo economics. It’s well documented that trickle down didn’t work for Bush or Reagan. Modern history proves that our national debt has increased rapidly under ,not Democrat but Republican administrations. Just imagine what our deficit will be if Romney is elected, when unlike W, he who had the luxury of starting from zero.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:18 pm
Finn @ 12:04: Just checking, because otherwise, I don’t see what you can get mad about. He asked for female candidate, he got them, and he hired them. All the rest is ridiculous spin, even by your standards.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:18 pm
The best part was the look on mitt’s face when mitt whined to Candy like a spoiled rich brat and whined “what”.
Media missed it but it was hilarious.
The next best part was busting mitt on his Libya lie and our President scolded mitt on how Americans act after a attack. The cons and media did not act like Americans.
This proved mitt is not a leader.
Truth Squad
October 17th, 2012
12:19 pm
The truth is that even if Kyle is correct, it doesn’t matter. Governor Romney doesn’t have the electoral votes to win. Ohio has clearly said “no!” to Romney which means he done.
In addition to Indiana, he might take back North Carolina. I wouldn’t bet on him taking any state where Latinos make a big difference. That means states where Latino turnout is traditionally understated in preelection polls:Nevada and Colorado especially, as well as Florida will be blue. Romney’s team has already said they will lose if they cannot get close to 30% of the Latino vote. Right now, he’s around 20-23%.
So no, no boost necessary for President Obama. I guess there’s always that hopey thing Republicans can cling to.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:19 pm
Beyond @ 12:05: Except Romney didn’t spend the preceding five minutes describing making lists of women to put in binders.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:20 pm
No, JDW @ 12:13, you are making it sound that way.
MEGO
October 17th, 2012
12:21 pm
@Bruno 11:00,
Is that not what you guys said ………when President Obama had Osama taken out??? The Bush Administration intelligence was the reason, Mr. Obama did not do anything??
Lambeau
October 17th, 2012
12:21 pm
Mark, I as well as other people presented evidence yesterday and you won’t “accept” it because of semantics. Get over yourself.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:21 pm
Kyle,
mitt is not for equal pay for women.
Are you?
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:22 pm
invisible @ 12:17: “Why would any sane person think that Romney, with the same advisors and policies as GWBush, would have a different result than GWBush?”
Well, Obama has (or had) many of the same advisers as Clinton; have the past four years been Clinton-esque?
sailfish
October 17th, 2012
12:22 pm
kyle
For those of us who want romney to spell out specific cuts, he fails again and again. If you have no credibility, why do you choose to believe a man that claims he can create 12 million new jobs? What’s his proof that he can accomplish that goal, just because he says so? Regardless, his math still doesn’t work concerning deficits, isn’t that what the right wingers and tea party have been complaining about ad nauseum? I’ll stick with the cirrent trends of decreasing unemployment and a stock market that’s rejuvenated my 401k – romney fails to close the deal, again.
H.E. Pennypacker
October 17th, 2012
12:22 pm
Kyle, that is a fair clarification on your debate summary, but I duly noted that I was paraphrasing your conclusion of a draw on the conventions, a not unfair summary characterization.
As for the binder comments, they are much ado about nothing. I give Romney credit for hiring women, although questions have arose since last night if the version portrayed during the debate was accurate. A group called MASSGAP, a bipartisan group of women, have stated that before the election they compiled said binder and handed it to Mr. Romney when he took office to re-mediate the lack of women in top state office.
At the end of the day, is it not about equal pay for equal work and where does Governor Romney stand on Lily Ledbetter? He did not take a position during the debate and his representatives dodged the question post debate. I suspect that means he is against it, but does not want to be on record opposing such, but I am open to other interpretations.
Georgia
October 17th, 2012
12:23 pm
Look, if there was an effective plan to improve the economy, then either candidate who deduced it would be screaming it from the mountaintops. The truth about the economy is that it is cyclical and a total sitting duck to corruption which can aggravate the natural highs and lows.
Lower taxes. Lower interest rates. Print money. Cut spending. Relax trade laws. Interstate commerce. Build roads. airports. trains. canals. armies. navies. War.
It’s all been tried and we still only can achieve endlessly-looped cycles of boom and bust.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:23 pm
“have the past four years been Clinton-esque?”
Yes.
Our President hired his team.
mitt hired neocons.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
12:24 pm
Kyle, Obama is not the one claiming to overhaul the entire tax code. The only detail he needs, he has said repeatedly. Raise taxes on your plutocrat masters. Got it?
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:24 pm
sailfish @ 12:22: Again, how worked up are you about Obama’s lack of specifics?
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:25 pm
getalife @ 12:21: The only thing you got right in that comment is my name.
Georgia
October 17th, 2012
12:25 pm
Obama has NOT had four years. Even Rush Limbaugh admits that the first year was W’s fault. That leaves only two and a half years.
Romney better come up with a plan, and if he does, and if he can sell it, then he’ll win, AND I’ll vote for him.
Del
October 17th, 2012
12:26 pm
The libs sure are defecating in one hand while desperately wishing in the other. As Obama marches ever closer to the firing block the libs will begin to see what they’re getting all over their wishes as they rub their hands together in mental anguish.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
12:27 pm
So how about those magic underwear, Kyle?
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:27 pm
Kyle,
“The only thing you got right in that comment is my name.”
Come on Kyle, you can do better than that.
Lets filter out the bs and get down to the facts.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:27 pm
Gravy @ 12:24: Nice work dodging the question I asked you specifically.
Now, my questions to others about specifics from Obama have been about his entire agenda, not just taxes. Where are the specifics from Obama about anything?
Or do you just want to stick with the juvenile magic underwear jokes?
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:28 pm
Boy, do I know you, Gravy, or what?
adam smith's invisible hand
October 17th, 2012
12:29 pm
I’m certain Romney will win. Well, he’ll win Georgia, because we’re not too smart. As for the presidency, he doesn’t have a prayer. At least he’s got those millions in the Caymans to assuage his pain.
sailfish
October 17th, 2012
12:30 pm
kyle
Lack of specifics? Where have you been, china? He put forward the jobs bill which the house has stalled. Record number of filibusters on many economic fronts, over 30 consecutive months of adding new jobs. I think the trending here is noteworthy, give obama his due, things are moving in the right direction. With romney using tax cuts as his centerpiece it would be more like a hope and a prayer, we’ve seen that movie before, why would you expect a different ending?
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:30 pm
“Romney better come up with a plan”
Same ole plan as always for the gop.
Tax cuts and no regulations then lie about helping the middle class but they refuse to vote to help the middle class.
Nothing new.
The gop has not changed.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:30 pm
Yes, getalife @ 12:27, let’s do get down to facts. And I don’t mean the made-up ones we heard from Obama last night.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:31 pm
sailfish @ 12:30: So, there’s one jobs bill. Anything else?
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:32 pm
What’s his proposal on Medicare? SS? How, specifically, would he make good on his broken first-term promise to halve the deficit within four years? Why would his “green” energy efforts be more fruitful in the next four years than they have been in the past 3.5 — what would he do differently?
Etc., etc.
jconservative
October 17th, 2012
12:33 pm
For the rest of you political junkies here are the details of the next presidential debate.
The next moderator is Bob Schieffer of CBS and he has selected the following topics:
“Subject to possible changes because of news developments, here are the topics for the October 22 debate, not necessarily to be brought up in this order:
America’s role in the world
Our longest war – Afghanistan and Pakistan
Red Lines – Israel and Iran
The Changing Middle East and the New Face of Terrorism – I
The Changing Middle East and the New Face of Terrorism – II
The Rise of China and Tomorrow’s World”
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:36 pm
Kyle,
Read the transcript and post where mitt said he is for equal pay for women.
Don’t give rw media lies. ramash is not credible.
“Binders of women” is called a gaffe.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:37 pm
jconservative @ 12:33: So, nothing on Russia … nothing on possible EU fiscal collapse(s) … nothing on Latin America … nothing specifically on Syria …
Of course the ME is the biggest topic. But that list would make one believe it’s the only topic.
H.E. Pennypacker
October 17th, 2012
12:37 pm
Kyle,
You are correct, there have been few specifics offered by the President, but if you make that charge you have to equally assert such a charge. In today’s politics, it seems that to offer specifics is to lead with your chin. Governor Romney offers only vague tax plans because he knows the Democrats would pull our the least appealing elements and use them like a cudgel. That is no different than how Ryan used the $716 billion cost savings negotiated our of Medicare, (to fund expanded coverage in Obamacare), to take a position as the defender of a program he would like to voucherize and……reduce its costs.
To level the charge of lack of specifics on one side and ignore the same from the other is disingenuous.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:37 pm
LOL, Ramesh is not credible but “getalife” is.
Just Saying..
October 17th, 2012
12:38 pm
I also believe every time Romney says “100% of Americans”, WAY too many voters recall “Oh, yeah, that 47% thing”.
Stop with the % word, already. Just say “…all Americans”.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:39 pm
“What’s his proposal on Medicare? SS? How, specifically, would he make good on his broken first-term promise to halve the deficit within four years? Why would his “green” energy efforts be more fruitful in the next four years than they have been in the past 3.5 — what would he do differently? ”
Perhaps you should listen better and go read his web site.
You did not listen to him on Libya and you (the media) and mitt looked like fools.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:39 pm
Pennypacker @ 12:37. “To level the charge of lack of specifics on one side and ignore the same from the other is disingenuous.”
Correct. Which is why I keep asking the people who began by demanding specifics from Romney to point out the specifics from Obama, or to explain why Obama’s lack of specifics doesn’t bother them but Romney’s does.
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
12:40 pm
After that rousing Romney victory over
CrowleyObama last night (LOL), I’m changing my prediction.I now have Team Uppity Muslim at 295 EC votes (down from 310) and Team Money Boo Boo at 243 EC votes, up from 228.
And for all of you heavy hitters out there don’t forget!
The odds on Team MBB are still great at 2/1, while TUM is only getting 4/11.
Easy money…
Gimme Gimme Gimme
October 17th, 2012
12:40 pm
“Next Monday Obama is going to hold Romney down and cut his hair.
What will he do after that? Eat his dog?
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
12:41 pm
Seems the entire Popular Front moved over here.
Who won, the Dems are frothing at the mouth to say their guy won. Expectations were so low, based on his last non mirror fogging performance, so yeah, he did much better. Did he win? Looked pretty even to me. Romney rapped his miserable record around his neck and exposed the fact that he has no plan for the next four years. Obama made some points against Romney as well, we he talked about Romney’s past disparaging remark about the coal plant. He dodged the Libyan fiasco coverup bullet as time ran out and Crowly threw him a life preserver. That will not stand after Monday.
But, the bottom line is what happens in the polls. Not sure we will get much idea before the next debate. The polls tell which one won. Did women move back toward Obama? IMO, I think people have finally heard enough and made the decision that Obama is all mouth and fairytale and has been proven a failure, and I don’t think he can get them back. We will see soon.
Del
October 17th, 2012
12:41 pm
It seems like some of these meat heads on here today think they’re going to reverse Obama’s loss of woman voters with these stupid posts.
Truth Squad
October 17th, 2012
12:42 pm
Isn’t ironic that Kyle and other Republicans are busy defending Affirmative Action today?
Governor Romney admitted to committing Affirmative Action last night with his rejecting of some presumed qualified men in order to select from a “binder of women” who were also presumed qualified.
I wonder if these same folks will still defend such actions one the Supreme Courts has put an end to the practice?
H.E. Pennypacker
October 17th, 2012
12:43 pm
For those curious, I did find some specifics on Romney’s tax plan.
http://www.romneytaxplan.com/
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:43 pm
I am credible and usually right Kyle.
I filter out the media bs and look at what was said and proposed.
Try it.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:43 pm
getalife @ 12:39: Oh, I’ve been to his web site. Clearly, you haven’t. Here’s the link.
What is his “plan”? Oppose Republicans. Everything else is in the past tense.
Well, everything else except the fund-raising pitch.
It’s just like Geithner said to Ryan: We’re not saying we have a plan. We’re just saying we don’t like yours.
Gimme Gimme Gimme
October 17th, 2012
12:44 pm
getalife – “I am credible and usually right Kyle.”
That’s funny right there. I don’t care who you are.
sailfish
October 17th, 2012
12:46 pm
How’s about raising taxes on those making over 250k, is there a problem with that, do you make over 250k? How many small businesses make over that in reality? Dry cleaners? mom & pop restaurants? Not even close. We need more revenue to tackle the deficit. Medicare & social security needs attention but not vouchers and privitization. These deficits are the result of wars, irresponsible tax cuts, medicare part d and of course the great recession itself. I would not grade out the president higher than a C+ but I certainly wouldn’t replace him with a man who has no specifics, blustering foreign policy, and most likely more loyalty to the wealthy class, he’s a C- as a candidate. I’ll stick with the C+ guy moving in the direction of a solid B over the unknown C- who has promised just about everything for everybody in the past few weeks, it does not add up…
Del
October 17th, 2012
12:47 pm
Obama’s new campaign bumper sticker…We Have No Plan But Yes We Can.
Matz
October 17th, 2012
12:47 pm
“Binders of women” is called a gaffe.
In some states, it’s called p0rn0graphy. In Utah, it’s called a Bridal Registry.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:48 pm
Kyle,
You can find a link to support your opinion and I can find links to support my opinion.
Lets not play this silly game and just write the facts.
Post mitt supporting equal pay for women in this debate.
Post mitt getting busted on lying about Libya.
Lets cut the bs and debate the facts.
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
12:49 pm
Funny you mention Geithner so soon after mentioning Clinton-esque, Kyle.
Give me a minute, it will come to me; which previous prez did Geithner work for?
BHO is GWB II.
Just another in a long line of pro-war, corporate owned wh*res who take their marching orders from Wall Street…
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:49 pm
sailfish @ 12:46: Raising taxes on the “millionaires and billionaires” who make $250K a year is not a plan. It’s one policy. Everything else Obama states amounts to a goal, without specific ways of getting there.
Which is not a wholly bad approach — after all, even Obama acknowledges the POTUS has to work with Congress to make law (except when he’s saying “We can’t wait” and doing the things Congress has declined to do, but I digress). The question is: Why is this acceptable from Obama but not from Romney?
Del
October 17th, 2012
12:50 pm
“That’s funny right there. I don’t care who you are.”
Quite rightly
Dusty
October 17th, 2012
12:51 pm
THIS TIME?
The clock was ticking and time did fly.
Who mobilized the mind with many a sigh?
Did words abound that stirred our souls?
Made voters think before the polls?
Will the poor man say “He doesn’t care.”?
Will the rich man say “He should be fair.”?
Each one of us does seek the truth.
Importance lies in the voting booth.
But truth eludes even an honest man.
A twisted promise will seem best plan.
LIes are lifted then thrown away
But lies still come alive each day.
We long for truth but can we find it?
Not when truth has rot behind it!
We do our best and that is all.
The chips will fly and then they fall.
.
Obama is a LIAR!!!
October 17th, 2012
12:51 pm
Obama lied and
jconservative
October 17th, 2012
12:51 pm
Kyle Wingfield at 12:37 pm
It is what it is. Of course, Scheiffer left himself and out with his comment: “Subject to possible changes because of news developments…” I would think that would cover anything hot, domestic or foreign.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:51 pm
getalife @ 12:39: “go read his web site”
[link to web site provided.]
getalife @ 12:48: “Lets not play this silly game” of looking at web sites.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:51 pm
Kyle,
When your opponent does not provide specific details should you?
No.
The idea to let congress write the details is not leadership.
That is leading from behind.
Obama is a LIAR!!!
October 17th, 2012
12:51 pm
Enter your comments here
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:53 pm
jconservative @ 12:51: Not shooting the messenger. But I would like to hear each candidate on Europe even if Spain doesn’t require a bailout between now and then.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
12:53 pm
Instead of deflecting, a la Willard, why don’t you just provide just one detail? Just one? Or is the plan so double secret that not even you lap dogs are privy to it?
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
12:53 pm
CNN last night used a hologram chart to show how the numbers do not add up. Obama’s one note economic plan, tax the wealthy revenue was added to what revenue was available now. No visible change to total revenue was evident. They pointed out there were no enough ‘wealthy’ to move the chart and to raise significant money from the wealthy, the tax rates on them would have to be extremely high and that Congress would never go along with that.
To be fair, they used the same hologram to show the money Romney says he will add by ending deductions. It was much more than the money from the tax the rich scheme, but again, not enough to balance off the spending. Neither’s math adds up, but only Romney ever gets a question, why is that? Romney is the one that gets the “be more specific question”, but Obama has less specifics to his plan than Romney. Go figure!
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
12:54 pm
Gravy, deflecting: “Why are you deflecting?”
And he wonders why I don’t answer his nonsense most of the time.
sailfish
October 17th, 2012
12:54 pm
Well, time to dive deep, all the flotsam here makes me want to find the sweet water. Just one last point, obama has a record which romney keeps pointing out. He claims it’s a failure, I say it is not because even if you have 6.5% unemployment, if you find yourself in that group its still a depression – for you! Right now 92% of americans are working and that is no small feat after dangling off the cliff four short years ago; be fair, like clinton said no president could’ve solved this problem completely in four years, to state the contrary is just pulling the wool over your own eyes and ears…
Just Saying..
October 17th, 2012
12:55 pm
“How, specifically, would he make good on his broken first-term promise to halve the deficit within four years?”
Kyle, getting a little over amped here? Other than Allah and Joseph Smith, your belief is there is an American politician who could have actually halved the US budget deficit over the past four years? You genuinely believe that promise could have been kept? Should have been kept?
Really?
getalife
October 17th, 2012
12:55 pm
Kyle,
Write without rw media links to prove your point.
You have to actually think for yourself.
I know that is too much to ask from the right but I will keep trying.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
12:57 pm
Also, Kyle, care to explain how Willard claims he will create millions of jobs and then yells “Government doesn’t create jobs!” Reconcile that one, lap dog.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
12:58 pm
I don’t wonder why. I know why. You don’t have any answers. You’re nothing but a low paid lap dog.
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
12:59 pm
My overall impression was that Obama won slightly on style and that Romney won by a significant margin on substance.
Taqweeshea–During the debate, I remarked to PB that Romney should have toned it down a time or two since it was a public forum. He seemed a little swept up in the moment, and should have relaxed a bit more.
On the other hand, Obama’s voice appeared to be a full octave above his normal range for most of the debate, suggesting to me that he was feeling defensive.
md
October 17th, 2012
1:01 pm
“You did not listen to him on Libya and you (the media) and mitt looked like fools.”
Because common sense dictates that his timeline and comments make no sense……no matter how one tries to spin it.
Even if his comment in the rose garden was in reference to Benghazi, it would make no sense whatsoever to then proceed to put out info for 2.5 weeks saying there were protestors…….they knew there were never any protesters long before that……………
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
1:03 pm
How do I know you’re low paid? Because even a well trained baboon can do what you do. The Cox’s know it too.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
1:05 pm
“MR. ROMNEY: I’m going to help women in America get — get good work by getting a stronger economy and by supporting women in the workforce. ”
The question was about equal pay for women.
Del
October 17th, 2012
1:08 pm
” Romney is the one that gets the “be more specific question”, but Obama has less specifics to his plan than Romney. Go figure!”
Rafe, it’s intended to deflect away from Obama’s lack of a plan for a second term. That’s why Romney’s caught up and now leads in the polls because voters are seeing through the smoke screen.Team Romney knows that if they provided more specific detail that Obama’s campaign managers would only attempt to use those details for further defection. They have no plan of their own that Obama can use to sell against Romney’s so all they can do is deflect by arguing that Romney won’t provide details in hopes of discrediting him. It hasn’t been working.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
1:08 pm
“Does the buck stop with your secretary of state as far as what went on here?
PRESIDENT OBAMA: Secretary Clinton has done an extraordinary job. But she works for me. I’m the president. And I’m always responsible. And that’s why nobody is more interested in finding out exactly what happened than I did (sic).
The day after the attack, Governor, I stood in the Rose Garden, and I told the American people and the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened, that this was an act of terror. And I also said that we’re going to hunt down those who committed this crime. And then a few days later, I was there greeting the caskets coming into Andrews Air Force Base and grieving with the families.
And the suggestion that anybody in my team, whether the secretary of state, our U.N. ambassador, anybody on my team would play politics or mislead when we’ve lost four of our own, Governor, is offensive. That’s not what we do. That’s not what I do as president. That’s not what I do as commander in chief.
MS. CROWLEY: Governor, if you want to reply just quickly to this, please.
MR. ROMNEY: Yeah, I — I certainly do. I certainly do. I — I think it’s interesting the president just said something which is that on the day after the attack, he went in the Rose Garden and said that this was an act of terror. You said in the Rose Garden the day after the attack it was an act of terror. It was not a spontaneous demonstration. ”
Owned.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
1:08 pm
Gravy
Insulting the host is a reprehensible response, just because you are unable to compete with facts and logic. Go back to the underwear jokes, they serve you better!
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
1:08 pm
getalife @ 12:55: I linked to the Obama 2012 site.
Keep digging.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
1:09 pm
Just Saying @ 12:55: As I’ve explained elsewhere in the thread, I’m merely asking the “where are Romney’s specifics?!?!?!” crowd to abide by their same lust for details when it comes to Obama.
md
October 17th, 2012
1:11 pm
“The question was about equal pay for women.”
And? Did he say he was going to repeal LL? Or are you just making up strawman arguments……
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
1:11 pm
Look, if there was an effective plan to improve the economy, then either candidate who deduced it would be screaming it from the mountaintops. The truth about the economy is that it is cyclical and a total sitting duck to corruption which can aggravate the natural highs and lows.
Georgia–Great post @ 12:23. At best, a President can create an environment which is either friendly or unfriendly to business. There are no magic solutions which will instantly offset the effects of the vast over-building which occurred in the mid-2000s. In many ways, we just have to wait it out.
Having said that, I personally rate Obama as being unfriendly toward business. In his rush to portray himself as a man of the people, a champion of the downtrodden, he has demonized the producers at every turn. Toss in the uncertainty about the true costs of Obamacare and it’s easy to see why many CEOs are reluctant to spend money right now.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
1:13 pm
The question was about equal pay for women.
Getalife, I think studies have shown that much of this inequality is just a fact of life and is not deliberate. Women have restrictions on their commitment to work that men do not have. They often are unwilling to travel, have to have more time off for raising children, need more flexible hours, and have to leave the workforce for periods of time more often than men. Usually, there are explanations for why one person gets paid more than another.
Why do women pay more to have a shirt drycleaned than men? Are Drycleaners anti-women? getagrip!
Stevie Ray
October 17th, 2012
1:13 pm
KYLE,
Why do you suppose Romney missed many opportunities last night such as the whole Libya thing is best argued by timeline. Any time BO brought up a record of Romneys Bain offshoring jobs in any amount..why didn’t he refer the the 4, 4 and 3 pinnochios respectively that BO got with these allegations…I bet Romney also wishes he would have conceded the ball to the second half cause he got smoked by 47% thingy…I think that last comment by BO is what really gave him the win..
Voter turnout? BO same as 2008? GOP same as 2008? I think the former is much less likely…seems enthusiasm, as evidenced by at least one question last evening, is nowhere near that of DEMS in 2008..
md
October 17th, 2012
1:14 pm
Libya was a classic example of “shoot first, aim second”…..no if’s and’s or but’s……
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
1:15 pm
sailfish @ 12:54: ” Right now 92% of americans are working”
That’s not what 8% unemployment means. In fact, the employment-to-population ratio is at its lowest level since the early 1980s. Check out the data for yourself at the BLS web site.
Stevie Ray
October 17th, 2012
1:18 pm
KYLE,
Ive mentioned before that the absurdity of this election and ones before is that all this hand jive on right and left sights is ignoring the 800lb gorilla in the room…our system is completely broken so all results are flawed..it like our government is a cancerous pig still within reach of the trough (as the water is drying up) and all anybody wants to discuss is if the pig should be adorned in red or blue…
Another 4 years on nothing accomplished and our interests completely subordinated to the money bags and re-election….Will this get fixed in our lifetimes?
Matz
October 17th, 2012
1:20 pm
Rafe Hollister @ 1:13,
Women should just accept that they’re women and get over it! Right? You’re WOMEN! Your life will never be as cool as our masculine experience. STFU! (Cue up the Billy Ocean: “Get outta my dreams! And into my binder…”)
Dusty
October 17th, 2012
1:20 pm
I thought this debate was the biggest blunder ever bestowed on the American people. High school debates have better planning.
The program was set up for statements, not debate. Romney had to ask for a little time to answer an accusation. The moderator was prejudiced and tried to squeeze in her own questions while the selected audience tried to introduce various ideas. but presented long since discussed questions. The audience was carefully selected to show diversity. of skin color if not for good ideas.The timing was unbalanced. The debaters had to rush forward and speed their comments to give a complete thought.
This was not a time for thinkiing but a flash forward to beat the clock. A few good statements got squeezed in but they were few and far between..
We can do BETTER!
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
1:22 pm
Will this get fixed in our lifetimes?
Well, we have seen the Obama solutions for the last four years, so if he is reelected it will not. Time to try something else. We do not have to settle for what we have!
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
1:24 pm
Rafe, if you’re cool with Kyle taking his shots at me, then you better believe I will fire back! Especially when all Kyle has is deflection as the base of his “argument.” If Kyle doesn’t like it, he has my email address and he can send me a location to meet and discuss face to face, instead of talking tough while hiding behind his keyboard. Little lap dogs usually run away at that point. It’s not my fault that Kyle is low paid for cutting and pasting ditto-head bloviations. If that hurts his feelings, he is more than welcome to attempt to ply his trade elsewhere. My guess is that he is very happy for getting paid to do next to nothing. It’s more than obvious that Kyle has chosen to supplement his low income by being a lap dog for plutocrats. I’m just curious as to the number he settled on. For me, there is no number high enough to sell my soul or my pride for.
Stevie Ray
October 17th, 2012
1:27 pm
RAFE,
Appreciate that…in fact BO did utter the promise in 2008 that “the days of lobbyists controlling the DC agenda are over….then immediately pandered to Telecom, Wall Street and the like. The congress spend 30% of their time on our nickel raising money…and the big money lies on the most extreme left and right fringes..
The deck is so stacked that if any Congress person tried to push a bill eliminated private money (or constitutional amendment) from campaigns and other, he would get pushed out of office so quick heads would spin.
sailfish
October 17th, 2012
1:28 pm
kyle
Please…let’s just keep it simple, we tend to overlook all the people who are working and lending a hand to family members who are in a bind. I should know because two of my brothers work in construction which has been decimated and clearly not by president obama. Once inventory is cleared then the picture will grow brighter regardless who ends up president. Just be fair about this economic mess and the person that had to follow behind and cleanup, that’s where most of you on the other side fall flat cause its like you demand it be fixed right now and that was never possible. A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step, then you already know that I presume?
getalife
October 17th, 2012
1:30 pm
When will you support our troops in Libya?
Are you not Americans?
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
1:31 pm
Since Kyle wants to pretend that the President hasn’t given details, I’ll supply a few:
1. Stop giving subsidies to oil companies
2. Stop giving tax breaks to companies that outsource American jobs.
3. Let the Bush tax cuts for millionaires expire.
4. The American Jobs Act
5. Continue working with our allies on fighting terrorists.
6. Get our troops out of Afghanistan
7. Smile and hold his head high because he knows that his mere existence drives old, white male, xenophobes and racists moon bat crazy. (My personal favorite)
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
1:32 pm
Matz
Women should just accept that they’re women and get over it! Right?
____________________
No, we should just give them a million dollars a piece to ease our guilt. (sarcasm)
I think most women, at least those that are married, realize that it is a family effort. As long as their family is doing well, they are happy. We do not have the power to correct every bit of diversity that nature throws at us. Women have always been the nurturers and nest builders and that is the most valuable work mankind does, bring up the next generation and keep the family going. Men have been the hunter/gatherers bringing home the bacon. Can this be reversed, sure, if that is what they want to do, but most women obviously prefer nature’s way.
Single women compete everyday in every way and often outperform and outproduce and out earn the males. They need no protection as they are every bit as good as the men.
We have the LLB act to protect the case where women are underpaid, time to move on.
Stevie Ray
October 17th, 2012
1:34 pm
GRAVYTRAIN
We usually know who lost a debate by the first one to start the name calling..it does seem on the surface that the easiest job in the world is to simply disagree with everything another party stands for no matter how obvious most things are to most people on the surface…the ones who have to dig deeper are generally on wrong side of argument…
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
1:34 pm
Your turn, Kyle? One detail, any one will do? What cuts will be made? How will he pay for more bombs and tanks that the military doesn’t want or need. How much money has Willard gotten from General Dynamics, makers of bombs and tanks?
Matz
October 17th, 2012
1:34 pm
Mr. Hollister,
To quote Mrs. Castorini (Olympia Dukakis) in the movie Moonstruck: “What you don’t know about women is a lot.”
Georgia
October 17th, 2012
1:36 pm
Those who watched the debate on television, smartphone or Ipad thought that Obozo won. Those who watched the debate on their Ipod, GPS screen, or ebook thought Romney won.
I watched it on my pager and call it a draw.
adam smith's invisible hand
October 17th, 2012
1:36 pm
“U.S. Housing Starts Up 15% in September” – today’s headline from the NY Times and WS Journal. I guess rafe, md and other tinfoil hatted people think the developers are in a conspiracy to get Obama re-elected.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
1:39 pm
Gravy
Because even a well trained baboon can do what you do. The Cox’s know it to.
I will let Kyle deal with you, but I have never seen Kyle compared anyone on here with a baboon, like you just did. Bereft of ideas, you resort to attacking the hosts. He brings facts and logic to his replies to you, not sophomoric insults like you dish out.
Sophie's Choice
October 17th, 2012
1:40 pm
“A spirited debate that ultimately won’t boost Obama”– Oh, Kylie. Don’t you just wish? You & your echo chamber here can click your heels together & repeat it all you like, but that won’t make it true. Your boy got called on his lies, and tripped over his own tongue trying to deny it when he got hammered by his own actual lack of accomplishments while he was Governor of Massachusetts. News flash: except for wingnut media outlets like Faux News, all others are already reporting a bounce for Obama. DEAL WITH IT.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
1:41 pm
“What you don’t know about women is a lot.”
Yep, you could say that about any man.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
1:43 pm
Our President set the record straight on Libya and we have troops there going after the terrorists.
Lets support them.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 17th, 2012
1:44 pm
Sorry conservatives, I hope Obama becomes the next President, of Kenya!! Please take Joey Biden and Nancy Pelosi with you. Thanks
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
1:44 pm
For me, there is no number high enough to sell my soul or my pride for.
Well, have there been any offers, Gravy?
Stevie Ray
October 17th, 2012
1:47 pm
GRAVYTRAIN
1. Stop giving subsidies to oil companies (5 billion or so a year)
2. Stop giving tax breaks to companies that outsource American jobs. (too miniscule to calculate)
3. Let the Bush tax cuts for millionaires expire. ($80 billion a year…)
4. The American Jobs Act (each alleged job costs $235,000)
5. Continue working with our allies on fighting terrorists.(look no further that ME on fire to see how that is working)
6. Get our troops out of Afghanistan (not remotely an original idea)
7. Smile and hold his head high because he knows that his mere existence drives old, white male, xenophobes and racists moon bat crazy. (My personal favorite)(that fits well with you prior comments)
You have suggested in above about $85 billion of additional revenue…can you divide that into $1.4 trillion? SMALL BALL will get us nowhere..
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
1:47 pm
Ground control to Birther Tom
Ground control to Birther Tom
Rehearse your talking points and put your tinfoil helmet on
Ground control to birther Tom
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
1:50 pm
You know Kyle, if you really believed in all of this conservative junk, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is? You could get up some capital and investors and build your very own website instead of riding on the Cox’s coattails. Not even Willard would touch that shady deal, huh? So, here you are. Now do some real work and show us Willard’s magic formula. The vast majority of Americans are waiting.
Stevie Ray
October 17th, 2012
1:52 pm
ADAMSMITH
That is a good sign to be sure…remember that ” was the quickest pace of groundbreaking since July 2008, though data on starts is volatile and subject to substantial revisions.
The other problem is the banks and putting mortgage money into play…if we broke them up..competition would force them to play more even as they continue to lick deep wounds from existing loser portfolios..
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
1:52 pm
Gravy @ 1:24: Why would I waste my time emailing you when you will post half a dozen comments here without answering my question?
And the “hiding behind his keyboard” bunk is hilarious coming from an anonymous commenter like yourself. You Internet tough guys are all the same.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
1:56 pm
Big Candy backs away from last nights backing of obama as does Mr Bookman.
“The premise of the entire debate is false, because the attack on our consulate in Benghazi was not an act of terror. ”
- Jay Bookman
But it was, no it wasnt, thats not what Obama said, yes he did, huh, what?
Stevie Ray
October 17th, 2012
1:56 pm
KYLE,
I promise my mouse is bigger than yours:-)
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
1:57 pm
StevieRay@1:47
Great post, I thought about doing what you did, but with Gravy and those like him, the numbers don’t work. They want the solution to all problems to be the rich are not paying enough. You will never convince them that there just isn’t that much money there, especially in this Obama economy, the number of rich/small businesses etc have been greatly diminished.
It seems their whole political outlook is rapped around their perception of what is fair, and if the solution doesn’t deal with that, then it is flawed in their mind. You just can’t win an argument with this kind of irrationality.
Gotta go make some money!
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
1:58 pm
But don’t worry, Gravy. I’m fixing your tough guy problem, at least on my blog. You’re done here.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:00 pm
I thought his name was Biffy Ocean.
gm
October 17th, 2012
2:00 pm
a course, of course, of which a majority of Americans disapprove
Oh really Kyle? which Americans disapprove, I think the 47% who Mitt wrote off approve, oh I get it you and the right speak for all Americans, typical arrogant, right winger who thinks they are the only ones in this country.
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
2:03 pm
Big Candy backs away from last nights backing of obama as does Mr Bookman.
iggy–For some reason, the Libs like to quote the first two or three paragraphs of Obama’s Rose garden speech, but have memory loss when it comes to the fourth paragraph, reprinted here:
“Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. But there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts.”
Anyone who denies that the Obama Administration blamed this attack on the anti-Islamic video doesn’t deserve any respect. That’s all we heard from Obama et. al. for the first two weeks following the attack.
Bad Choices
October 17th, 2012
2:04 pm
Either way, we simply do not have great choices this election. How tragic for America. One thing I do know – you shouldn’t keep doing the same thing that isn’t working!!! So, I am decided based on that one point alone. The other two that put me over the edge??? How utterly stupid was it to only have “5″ security people in the compound in Benghazi, Libya to protect our Ambassador and the others???? STUPID, STUPID!! We had just assisted in overturning a government, (and if anyone believes the Libyan guards supposedly securing the outside of the Embassy could “all be trusted” then they would be crazy – ever heard of “infiltration?”), it was the anniversary of 9/11 and all we could do to protect these people were put “5″ of our security people in place????? I do not want anyone so stupid and so ignoring of those facts in office ever again…..Those 4 people died for absolutely NO REASON AT ALL!! Secondly, I am sick and tired of neither party giving out facts, but especially the President. The American public doesn’t have a “clue” regarding what he is about to do to them re the Affordable Care Act (”Obamacare”). Why doesn’t he come out with the facts: They are: There are 4 levels of coverage in this Act. Bronze coverage pays 60/40; Silver coverage pays 70/30; Gold coverage pays 80/20; and the Platinum coverage pays 90/10 – with no ceiling of out-of-pocket costs!!! Furthermore, the cost of these coverages is “way above what companies are paying now for PPOs, HMOs, etc. in the insurance industry.” Does anyone wish to ask WHY???
Combine that with the fact that Obama wants to “penalize people who cannot afford this atrocious coverage.”
Economy is in the toilet, jobs are in the toilet, our stance in the world is in the toilet, and I refuse to have another 4 years of the same thing that isn’t working…..while I am totally unsure as to whether Romney’s plans will work – I AM TOTALLY SURE THAT OBAMA’S HAS NOT!!!
getalife
October 17th, 2012
2:04 pm
Our President will win the last debate too..
Our President will strike the terrorists in Libya.
Our President will lower unemployment in the October job report.
Our President will get patriotism after the obl movie.
Our President will win reelection.
I have no doubt.
gm
October 17th, 2012
2:04 pm
Amazing when Obama had a off night 2 weeks ago the nut jobs were happy with the moderators, now the losers can not take Obama exposed this rich fraud, who has made millions off the backs of middle class workers, yet the idiots in Georgia dont seem to mind.
Now we know why Georgia is never in play in elections, ””””
getalife
October 17th, 2012
2:05 pm
Free Gravy Train!
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
2:06 pm
But don’t worry, Gravy. I’m fixing your tough guy problem, at least on my blog. You’re done here.
No loss, Kyle. I actually enjoy intelligent debate from those with whom I disagree. The Train was here for one reason and one reason only, and it wasn’t intelligent debate.
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
2:07 pm
Post Gallup Poll today…. Romney 51% Bozo 46% ……. it appears that a lot of Bozo 2008 voters are changing their mind in a big way. Luntz’s small sample post debate was very telling. 2008 Bozo voters are disillusioned, disappointed and filled with regret at having their vote wasted on this clown. And Republicans are filled with enthusiasm and very up beat about our political future. I have said it before and now again…… Romney 320 electoral votes Bozo 218 electoral votes ….. a landslide for the GOP.
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
2:08 pm
Free Gravy Train!
I also enjoy getalife’s barbs, though they don’t always rise to the level of intelligent debate.
gm
October 17th, 2012
2:09 pm
Rush scum bag, high school dropout Limbaugh called Candy a “Hack, another disrespect towards women, but the low self esteem rep women never seem to mind, and gutless Mitt will never stand up to this scum.
gm
October 17th, 2012
2:13 pm
kayaker 71
Luntz’s small sample post debate was very telling. 2008 Bozo voters are disillusioned,
You mean the fox all white male audience that Luntz spoke with? that is really telling, how can you take a poll in Nevada but there are no latinos in the audience? oh well that fox low viewers for you.
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
2:13 pm
gm, 2:09,
This debate was not about Candy Crowley’s image….. it was about allowing the voting public to have a close look at the candidates. This beefy liberal heifer has had her 15 min of fame at the expense of an intelligent electorate who knows the difference between a journalist and a liberal hack.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 17th, 2012
2:16 pm
David Bowie – Thought you were dead! Was trying to put a little humor in today, you guys seem so stressed. A fact – small businesses and working people like Romney, those that always want handouts and freebies want Obama. Face it, small businesses do not like Obama! Obama will probably win, moochers are not willing to give up freebies, even if a job is available. Unless same party wins President, Senate and House, nothing significant will get done. Those two parties will NEVER agree? When we are dead and gone, they will still be arguing!
gm
October 17th, 2012
2:17 pm
kayaker 71
Compare Candy education and journalist background to Rush the Scum,
Limbaugh: High School drop out, ex druger, ex top 10 DJ, its not even close;;;;;;;;
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
2:18 pm
kayaker
Why show your own self loathing but demeaning the appearance of the moderator?
It speaks volumes about you. Not her
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
2:19 pm
Tom
They have been arguing since the inception of the country
Nothing new. Either one is a prize.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:19 pm
From our friend on the left, Mr Bookman…
“Gallup: Romney busts out a six-point lead
1:48 pm October 17, 2012, by Jay
Obama supporters buoyed by last night’s debate performance just got a glass of cold water in the face in the form of the latest Gallup numbers among likely voters:
Romney: 51 percent
Obama: 45 percent”
And there it is. Like rats running for the lifeboats our dem friends will continue to grasp at anything as the USS Obama slides slowly under the cold frigid waters of reality.
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
2:21 pm
This beefy liberal heifer…
Classy.
But what would one expect from someone who wrote that “blacks have only recently come down out of the trees.”
I ____ you not.
The Limbaugh-led poster boy of the Georgia GOP – K71.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 17th, 2012
2:21 pm
Gravy Train@1:24 – Not nice to say that about Kyle, at least he is skilled enough to have a job, even if it means listing to Obama groupies like you. Go back to your hero’s blog site, Mr Jay Big Bird Bookman, I hear him calling you for dinner! I think CROW is on the menu today!!
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
2:23 pm
gm, 2:17,
This high school dropout has the largest daytime radio show in the world, carried on over 600 stations with an excess of 2,000 sponsors. His listening base on a daily basis is over 3M people. I would say that this dropout has done pretty well.
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
2:23 pm
iggy, you do realize how we elect the POTUS, right?
Are you one of those UGA guys who obsesses over the Time of Possession stat instead of the scoreboard?
gm
October 17th, 2012
2:24 pm
Who cares about Gallop? its all about Ohio, Va, Fl Obama is either leading or tied,
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:24 pm
“beefy” LOL!!!
Matz
October 17th, 2012
2:25 pm
Gallup is setting the stage for the Diebold fix. Neither corporation will disclose the fees they received for their valuable service.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
2:26 pm
JamVet: You do realize that, if Romney wins the popular vote by 6 points, he will win 300+ EVs?
Fwiw, I think the Gallup poll is wrong. Just like the ABC/WaPo poll a couple of days ago that had Obama up 3 points. Throw those out, and the other five polls still listed in the RCP average go like this: Romney +1 in three polls, Obama +1 in two polls.
Which means it’s a dead heat in the popular vote … which means it’s either man’s game in the Electoral College, too. You wouldn’t have a popular vote that close and have all the swing states fall in one candidate’s direction.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:27 pm
FL has moved to the Romney column
VA has moved to toss up.
FL, VA, OH, NH, WI will come home to the Romney camp and probably will CO.
Jam…I heard we have something called the Electaplorable College?
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
2:28 pm
JamVet, 2:21,
You have the quote wrong. It was not, ” that blacks have only recently come down from the trees”. I was describing that Black Panther thug from PA and stated that ” this thug has not come down from the trees yet”. You are as bad as Bookman.
gm
October 17th, 2012
2:28 pm
kayaker 71
Hitler had millions of idiots that followed him, what that tell you his audience are low misinformed bigots who dont have the guts to confront people in their face.
How many protest, stance, or causes have you ever seen this piece of scum involved in thats not siting behind a mic, he uses low, middle class whites to fight for him while he ranks in millions off you idiots””””
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:31 pm
Whenever Obama opens his mouth its considered a Weapon of Gas Destruction.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:33 pm
“Diebold fix”
The GOP has already rigged the machines where needed. Its in the bag!!.
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
2:35 pm
An excess of 2,000 sponsors, my ass.
71, where do you come up with your made up gibberish?
But if what you wrote is true about the trees comment, I owe you a semi-evolved Darwinist apology!
if Romney wins the popular vote by 6 points, he will win 300+ EVs?
And if my aunt had…. (you know the rest.)
But I’m thoroughly enjoying watching you guys genuflect for your train wreck of a gawdawful candidate. The most spineless man I have ever seen in politics. Seriously.
So I’ll do my duty by voting against BHO again, but for you Republirubes, keep on…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycbgHM1mI0k
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
2:36 pm
How do you libs feel about all of the promises that Bozo made to get your 2008 vote? There are a lot of pretty pissed off people that feel that they got shafted for supporting this buffoon. They are wising up, finally. Bozo’s train is losing it’s wheels.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 17th, 2012
2:36 pm
Kyle@2:26 – I respect your honesty in that post. The country is split in half! On one side is the Democrats and on the other side is Americans! Got that line from Frank Lutz(pollster) talking to Bill Maher a couple nites ago. Maher was speechless when he said that! Yes, I have no idea why I was watching Bill Maher on HBO that nite. Just remember Fair and Balanced wins the day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:38 pm
“The most spineless man I have ever seen in politics.”
I think that title belongs to Mr Carter.
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
2:40 pm
JamVet, 2:35,
National sponsors equal about nearly 100. Local sponsors on local radio outlets average close to 4 sponsors/station. 600 stations nationwide that carry his radio show….. you do the math.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:41 pm
Obama seems to have moved on from US President. He is now fixated on becoming King of The World or atleast the Prince of Darkness…BWWWUUHHHAAAHHAAHAA
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
2:42 pm
Which means it’s a dead heat in the popular vote … which means it’s either man’s game in the Electoral College, too. You wouldn’t have a popular vote that close and have all the swing states fall in one candidate’s direction.
Give it some time, Kyle. When people are forced to make their final choice, I think they’ll take a hard look at who will best help our economy. Everything else is just window dressing, especially BS like free contraceptives.
For the record, I’ve been giving Romney at least a 50-50 shot from the beginning, way back to when every poll had him way behind. There’s no way that the next debate is going to help Obama since it focuses on foreign policy, which has been a glaring failure for Obama and Co.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
2:53 pm
So Romney is even lying about the binders full of women? He didn’t initiate the search for women.
UPDATE: And now straight from the horse’s mouth. MassGAP, the women’s coalition responsible for the effort to get more women appointed to state government, gives the Washington Post a statement saying Romney has it wrong — they, and not Romney, initiated the process. The group also notes that female appointments actually fell off during Romney’s tenure.
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/17/the_truth_about_romneys_binders_full_of_women/
Come on, man!
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:54 pm
Im sorry but Romney initiated the process.
NEXT!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
2:55 pm
equal about nearly 100
so, 65! Is that your number?
About? Nearly, kinda? In the ballpark?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
2:58 pm
The process was initiated in the summer , before the election even took place.
Road Scholar
October 17th, 2012
3:00 pm
” National Journal notes that oil production on public land rose between 2008 and 2011, as Obama said — albeit possibly due to policies put in place by the Bush administration, given the lag time between policy making and the effect in the field…”
So Kyle, from that statement above, you then must agree (although you will deny it along with your minions) that the recession in the first 3 years of the Obama Presidency was the result “possibly due to policies put in place by the Bush administration,” regardless of any changes that were tried to be made, esp since the House blocked most if not all Pres Obama’s changes..
Road Scholar
October 17th, 2012
3:02 pm
iggy: According to Romney!
I wonder how much the women in his “cabinet” were paid in respect to the men? Remember the question was on how women were treated, including pay inequity.
Georgia
October 17th, 2012
3:02 pm
Kyle wrote his headline well before the new poll showing that Romney won the debate, and now has a big lead. Period. Kyle is correct. It looks like an uphill struggle for Obama, because I don’t think Obama can perform any better than he did last night. It’s simply too little too late.
Still not funny Joke I’ve been trying to write all day: ” Those who saw the debate on television thought Obama won. Those who watched the debate on their Etch-a-Sketch thought Romney won”.
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
3:04 pm
Bozo’s foreign policy is worse than his economic guidance. Fodder for the cannon….
1. The Libya fiasco….. this is far from over. It is evident that Hillary fell on her sword to protect her chances in 2016. She and Bill hate Bozo and everything he stands for. They wouldn’t walk across the street for this clown.
2. Fast and Furious….. Holder is guilty of lying to Congress and covering up the worst domestic and foreign cluster in recent history. Getting a border agent killed, covering Holder’s ass with an order of Executive Privilege. Do you think that the American voter is that stupid?
3. The Apology Tour….. Americans don’t like to see their president grovel in front of anyone. That one video of Bozo bowing to that scummy Arab that runs a Wahhabi school that teaches children how to carry around bombs? Americans like winners, not losers. We are the most giving, caring and generous nation on earth….. You don’t see anyone lined up to get into Iran, do you?
4. Foreign Trade….. Bozo loses it when it comes to dealing with the Chinese. All he knows is how to borrow money from them. They have a terribly depressed currency that makes their goods cost more and ours cost less. Our trade balance with them stinks and as Bozo states, he has done very little to raise the currency standard with China.
5. Immigration…… no firm policy, hit and miss, nothing but measures to gain latino votes. Our border is like a sieve and more come across every day. A tougher stance with Mexico and defending our borders to keep Americans that live on the border safe. Bozo doesn’t have the balls.
6. The Middle East….. our policy of appeasement, apology, “leading from behind”, has been a disaster. We should cut aid to all of these countries that burn our flags, bomb our consulates and kill our people. Winning their hearts and minds is impossible at this time. They were all supposed to shove roses in their gun barrels when Bozo was elected president. We all know how that has turned out.
7. Europe….. it is time for the European to step up and defend itself. We expend way to much money on their economy, give away too much aid to those who are able to take care of themselves. Bring em home. I sure enjoyed my tour in Munich, Germany in the 60s but the time has come.
8. Energy Independence…… we should be able to tell OPEC to shove it inside of 8 yrs. By the end of Romney’s second term, we should have enough wells in place on public and federal land to ease way up on gas prices. If we buy what little we need from people like Canada, Brazil and England, we can tell OPEC goodbye.
These are just for openers. I am sure that Romney is better at pointing this out and I am. But count on it….. this next debate will be the final nail in Bozos’ coffin. He has no excuse.
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
3:10 pm
kayaker
were you the one that said “count on it” for last night’s debate as well?
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
3:12 pm
71, are you using Reaganomics to “explain” the number of Rush’s sponsors?
I’m still laughing at how th oaf stepped on his fat tongue vis a vis American women are sluts, prostitutes and FemiNazis and he wants the videos.
think that title belongs to Mr Carter.
Please do explain, iggy.
Mitt couldn’t shine Carter’s Naval Academy boots.
…which has been a glaring failure for Obama and Co.
Nope, B.
He punked the neocons at their own War on Terror game.
He surged into Afghanistan. Though the suddenly war weary Republicans (LOL) mysteriously fought him over that.
He droned the hell out of a SLEW of bad guys/Taliban types.
He helped NATO kill a bunch of Libyan thugs with no loss of American lives.
And he got Public Enemy Number One.
So the Romney PNAC stooges are left scratching their birther heads…
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
3:17 pm
David Bowie, 3:10,
If the Gallup Poll taken today is any indication of how the candidates did, I think you have answered your own question. As each day goes by, America is waking up. If the election were held today, Bozo would lose big time. And its just 23 days away with a debate on foreign policy next. Can’t wait.
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
3:19 pm
kayaker
Odds are great in Vegas. How much you laying down on Romney?
You could make a bundle
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
3:21 pm
kayaker
And I am sure you are intelligent enough to understand that the Gallup poll was completed yesterday before the debate, right?
Put keep dreaming.
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
3:25 pm
David Bowie, 3:21,
And the bookies said that the Jets could never win Super Bowl three either. There have been only 2 one term presidents in the last 50yrs and we are ready to make it three.
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
3:31 pm
kayaker
They don’t build those huge hotels in Vegas, Biloxi and Atlantic City because they are losing on a regular basis….
The lose, but “lets the odds ever be in your favor”
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
3:32 pm
They lose………………….
Truth Squad
October 17th, 2012
3:32 pm
Wow, now the Gallup poll is ok again since it shows what appears to be good news for Romney.
But the truth is found in the crosstabs of the poll: Obama leads in the East and Midwest- 52-48. Obama leads in the West-53-47.
The only section Romney leads in our beloved South-61-39!
Now if folks like Kyle believe such a disparity is enough to produce a majority electoral vote in November for Romney, then they best look at a map of our country and do the math. But hey, they’ve got that hopey thing working for ‘em right now.
MarkV
October 17th, 2012
3:42 pm
Dusty @1:20 pm
Dusty,
I am a little surprised by your strong condemnation of the debate. Could the reason be that this time President Obama did not allow Gov. Romney to bully him, like in the first one?
I was also surprised by your accusation that “The audience was carefully selected to show diversity. of skin color if not for good ideas.” How do you know that? Considering that only one questioner was African- American, what do you mean by the “skin color” comment?
While I, as you know, usually respond strongly to lies, I do not thing that there were too many in this debate. There were many misleading statements and inaccuracies on both sides, but few true lies. One exception was Romney’s accusation that “The president’s policies throughout the Middle East began with an apology tour…” This disgusting piece of demagoguery has been called totally false many times and still Romney is dishonest enough to repeat it.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
3:46 pm
Crowley: ‘Gov. Romney, sit down’.
mwuahahahahahha
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
3:57 pm
Most recently, we’ve learned that Arthur Allen, CEO of ASG Software Solutions, sent an email to workers with the following subject line: “Will the US Presidential election directly impact your future jobs at ASG? Please read below.”
alternet.org
Way to go, Cons. Voter intimidation.
Del
October 17th, 2012
4:00 pm
Candy Crawley is now saying that Romney was correct but that’s only to salvage her reputation as a creditable media personality. It was clear to anyone with an unbiased view that she was tipping for Obama last night.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
4:06 pm
If you refuse to unite to show patriotism and play politics instead on the Libya attack you are a terrorist sympathizer.Period.
Patty
October 17th, 2012
4:09 pm
I love how the whole embassy thing is being downplayed, especially in light of what our allies are reporting.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218841/Presidential-Debate-2012-Outrage-moderator-Candy-Crowley-sides-Obama.html
Bob
October 17th, 2012
4:15 pm
I watched the entire debate. Obama mostly mopped the floor with Romney.
Del
October 17th, 2012
4:22 pm
” Obama mostly mopped the floor with Romney.”
Bob, You’re among the few who saw it that way. If Gallup’s 6 pt. jump for Romney over Obama is accurate, Romney’s mopping the floor with Obama where it counts and that’s in the poll of likely voters.
Patty
October 17th, 2012
4:22 pm
Most recently, we’ve learned that Arthur Allen, CEO of ASG Software Solutions, sent an email to workers with the following subject line: “Will the US Presidential election directly impact your future jobs at ASG? Please read below.”
alternet.org
Way to go, Cons. Voter intimidation.
_______________________________
He just took a page out of the Labor Unions’s playbook.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
4:34 pm
Gravy Train/Real Answers Please/the other names you’ve tried: We can keep playing this little cat and mouse game, but you will lose in the end.
But take heart: I’m sure trolling is a much more high-paying job than writing for a newspaper.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
4:37 pm
Hmm…this woman was happy to be in the binder.
I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that being in the binder helped her get a job?
Del
October 17th, 2012
4:37 pm
Wonder what handle he/she gravy train uses over at Bookman’s blog.
Lambeau
October 17th, 2012
4:41 pm
Funny how after the last debate the Democrats latched on to a random one-liner taken out of context that Romney said and harped on it like crazy. Now they are doing the same thing after this debate. It’s because they have nothing of substance to hold against Romney.
@@
October 17th, 2012
4:46 pm
…his reference that day to “acts of terror” came after he mentioned the original 9/11 attacks and was not specifically applied to Benghazi.
That HAS to be the most pitiful attempt to gloss over the facts as I’ve ever seen.
PIT-I-FUL, I tell ‘ya!!!!!!
Anyhoo, about the best Obama can claim is he beat himself in the first debate.
schnirt
Pizzaman
October 17th, 2012
4:50 pm
Time to fly the Flag upsidedown!
cc
October 17th, 2012
4:58 pm
iggy@2:38 pm:
“I think that title belongs to Mr Carter.”
Not any longer! The torch has been passed to another generation, and the winner is . . . Obama!
Georgia@3:02 pm:
“I don’t think Obama can perform any better than he did last night”
It’s not so much his performance last night, Georgia, as it is his performance for the past nearly four years. That performance is the one that will result in his resounding defeat in November.
getalife@4:06 pm:
You could be characterized as a “blog terrorist”: repeated, frequent mindless shots which always miss whatever is the intended target.
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
5:04 pm
James Earl Carter is five times the man and American than Mitt and Barack are.
Put together.
Sailfish
October 17th, 2012
5:05 pm
Truth Squad
@
October 17th, 2012
3:32 pm
Just the facts, moby dick couldn’t have said it better, thanks…
Georgia
October 17th, 2012
5:05 pm
Both candidates made campaign stops today, and they are both on cruise control, stuck with using the buzz words, (binders, etc.), that were gaffed last night. So don’t expect the discussion to be advanced, you know the discussion, the one about how we can all benefit from the country we inherited from our founding fathers.
cc
October 17th, 2012
5:07 pm
Kyle Wingfield@4:34 pm:
I don’t think I’m alone in hoping Gravy Train’s impending loss of the game is ‘sooner’ rather than ‘later’!
cc
October 17th, 2012
5:12 pm
Enter your comments here
cc
October 17th, 2012
5:12 pm
JamVet:
Carter is indeed thankful for Obama. Obama has displaced Carter as the worst president in American history moving him down to only the second worst president!
JDW
October 17th, 2012
5:19 pm
@kayaker 71 …”If the election were held today, Bozo would lose big time.”
Uhhhh…Nope. See around here we use the Electorial College…if the election were held today the President would win…most likely 294 EV’s to 244…but VA is real close so it could be 281 to 257…either way it would be a win.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map_no_toss_ups.html
JDW
October 17th, 2012
5:21 pm
@cc…”Obama has displaced Carter as the worst president in American history moving him down to only the second worst president!”
My guess is Obama will be rated middle of the pack, but no one will “challenge” Duhbya for worst in our lifetime…I hope…even Mittens could do better than that.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
5:23 pm
But the election isnt being held today so whats your point? Enjoy that map because for OBlunder its all down hill from here.
JDW
October 17th, 2012
5:25 pm
@Kyle…”You wouldn’t have a popular vote that close and have all the swing states fall in one candidate’s direction.”
Not all…just the ones in the south…as someone pointed out earlier Obama leads comfortably in the West, Midwest and East…it’s only the South.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
5:33 pm
Wonder what handle he/she gravy train uses over at Bookman’s blog.
Let me give him some suggestions, Latter Day Gravy, Stale Gravy, Runny Gravy, Mormon Gravy, or Lumpy Gravy.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 17th, 2012
5:36 pm
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/17/14514354-man-arrested-in-alleged-plot-to-attack-federal-reserve-in-nyc?lite
Since you get full blame for any Terrorist acts that are successful you must get full credit as well for those that are not.
Anything else would be hypocrisy.
Thank you for keeping me safe President Obama.
JDW
October 17th, 2012
5:38 pm
@Kyle…re your earlier question on specifics…
Obama has laid out a broad plan and you can find some specifics in the budgets past but in general it is hold the line for the middle class, ask more from those that can pay, hold the line on spending and let revenue growth close the gap over time. While I agree that he has not given a large number of specifics neither has he made promises he can’t keep.
Mittens on the other hand promises to:
–cut tax rates 20%
–eliminate dividend and interest taxes
–eliminate AMT
–not raise middle class taxes
–used to be cut high income taxes now it has evolved to not lower, but not higher high income taxes
–cut the deficit
and more…the problem ole’ Mitt has is the all that is mathematically impossible to achieve so people naturally want to know specifically how? He would have been much better off to paint a broad picture of lower rates and fewer deductions while not digging an impossible hole for himself.
In the real world at the end of the day Obama’s approach slowly closes the gap (we can debate our disappointment in how fast) while Mitt’s approach grows the deficit pretty quick.
Just look at the Reagan, Clinton and Bush years its all there for you to see
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 17th, 2012
5:39 pm
Cheesy is Obama’s Julia.
Thank you for taking care of me because I’m too stupid to take care of myself.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 17th, 2012
5:43 pm
Cheesy is Obama’s Julia.
Thank you for taking care of me because I’m too stupid to take care of myself.
LOL.
And thank you for being too stupid to make a rational argument.
Its what your side does best.
As ive always said.
The lower the education level the redder the state.
The higher the percentage of college graduates.
The bluer the state.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 17th, 2012
5:44 pm
Dont quit your day job, JDW, because an economist you’re not.
Nor are you a soothsayer.
You can have an opinion, no matter hoe faulty, but it is still just your opinion.
Del
October 17th, 2012
5:45 pm
“Thank you for keeping me safe President Obama.”
Cheesy, wouldn’t it be great if Ambassador Stevens and the other 3 could be here to say the same.
@@
October 17th, 2012
5:46 pm
Too funny! Add this to Obama’s PITIFUL pile.
Obama was asked yesterday who made the decision to deny a request for more security for the U.S. diplomats in Libya. The president did not answer this question during the debate, but he followed up with the questioner (Kerry Ladka), after the debate and said something absurd.
“As to Ladka’s question about who turned down the Benghazi security requests and why, Obama reportedly told him that ‘releasing the individual names of anyone in the State Department would really put them at risk,’ Ladka says,” per The Washington Post.
So all those State Dept. employees are testifying from behind a screen…names withheld?
The sad part is….the questioner bought it.
@@
October 17th, 2012
5:47 pm
Chicken gravy?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 17th, 2012
5:54 pm
Gravy Stain?
@@
October 17th, 2012
5:55 pm
Michelle Obama and Ann Romney showed up to last night’s presidential debate wearing dresses in the same hue of bright pink.
Viewers of the debate took to Twitter to analyze the matching dresses. The Daily Beast tweeted that the twin dresses were “awkward.”
Being a woman, you’d think I’da noticed. I didn’t.
Talk about awkward twits.
It’s Breast Cancer Awareness Month.
@@
October 17th, 2012
5:56 pm
Red eye gravy?
schnirt
cc
October 17th, 2012
5:57 pm
Del@5:45 pm:
“Cheesy, wouldn’t it be great if Ambassador Stevens and the other 3 could be here to say the same.”
It would also be great if the people at Fort Hood, TX had been kept safe. Brian Terry, along with many other Americans, should have been kept safe rather than dying from gunshot wounds from weapons courtesy of Obama/Holder and ‘Fast and Furious’. The list could go on and on . . .
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
5:59 pm
From CNBC
Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Tuesday Germany needs to stimulate domestic economic demand and urged opposition parties to stop blocking proposed tax cuts in the upper house of Parliament.
JDW, I guess you need to “educate” her about how government spending grows the economy and not tax cuts. She has the strongest economy in Europe and needs your advice.
JDW
October 17th, 2012
6:04 pm
@Rafe…” I guess you need to “educate” her about how government spending grows the economy and not tax cuts.”
There you go again
What I said was tax cuts for the rich that don’t get spent do nothing to grow the economy.
Tax cuts that get spent or government spending will grow the economy.
JDW
October 17th, 2012
6:06 pm
@tiberius..
I’ll put my day job and forecasting record up against yours any day.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
6:06 pm
Feisty Gravy? Gravy again?
@@
October 17th, 2012
6:09 pm
Geez!!!
Jimmy Kimmel asks who won debate before it happened
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
6:09 pm
What you said JDW, is that “government spending” not Reagan’s tax cuts accounted for the GDP growth in the mid 80’s.
Angela disagrees, but she doesn’t have your experience, I’m guessing?
They BOTH suck
October 17th, 2012
6:12 pm
@@
Why get worked up over a late night talk show host?
Really?
That Black Guy
October 17th, 2012
6:16 pm
Road Scholar
October 17th, 2012
3:00 pm
So Kyle, from that statement above, you then must agree (although you will deny it along with your minions) that the recession in the first 3 years of the Obama Presidency
_______________________________________________________
The recession ENDED 6 to 8 months into Obama’s FIRST year. Where you get 3 years?
Dusty
October 17th, 2012
6:20 pm
Well, I will try to answer MarkV although I am getting weary of this subject. Did not take long, did it?
Anyway, I think I stated fairly well why I did not like the debate. Perhaps I did think it was not fair for Romney to be short changed in time (he was), interrupted by the moderator to change his statement,(she did), but both men had to race back and forth to present their comments. There was no need for an audience who had routine questions. The audience was absolutely politically correct (another thing of which I tire). Their percentages in skin color matched the percentages of the entire US population so that is why I say they were politically correct. One lady had a Hispanic name..(I’m really not a bigot in case you are wondering!) They did miss a representative from the Indian Nations of America, the Dine. That I do not like.
I prefer a debate with the debaters seated, pertinent questions asked, time limits imposed, questions allowed to be answered, no audience participation and a moderator who is absolutely impartial. That is the way to conduct a debate. The planners of that debate need to go to Toastmasters and learn a few things.
As to Prez Obama’s foreign policy, that doesn’t worry me too much. Hillary seems to be responsible for that. It’s the finances of this country that worry me. But right now I shall not worry while enjoying chicken and noddles!! Ah yes!!….
@@
October 17th, 2012
6:21 pm
TBs:
I’m not upset. Disappointed in the voting public is all.
MarkV
October 17th, 2012
6:28 pm
Dusty @ 6:20 pm
Dusty,
I do not have much liking for the town hall debate format either, but then, apparently some people like it.
Enjoy your chicken and noodles.
cc
October 17th, 2012
6:33 pm
Thin Gravy . . . VERY thin gravy!
CrownAchiever
October 17th, 2012
6:36 pm
It seems like Romney has let a number of good opportunities to attack the president’s record and administration by staying on message and hitting the basics for undecided voters.
I also find it curious that through the two domestic policy debates, no questions have been posed concerning gay marriage to the first president that has come out in support of marriage equality.
@@
October 17th, 2012
6:36 pm
This upsets me.
JONESBORO — The Clayton County Democratic Party is asking voters to re-elect Victor Hill as sheriff on Nov. 6 while simultaneously accusing his write-in opponent of betraying the party.
Democratic Party Chairman Albert Barker called Chief Deputy Garland Watkins’ write-in candidacy against Hill — who is awaiting trial on a 37-count felony indictment — an attempt to “split” the Democratic vote.
^^^ That’s what you call party interests before Clayton County’s interests.
JDW
October 17th, 2012
6:38 pm
@Rafe…”What you said JDW, is that “government spending” not Reagan’s tax cuts accounted for the GDP growth in the mid 80’s”
Reagan increased spending in excess of 6.25% a year and that had a large impact on his sucess…he didn’t even get the top income tax rate below 50% until 1986….well after the recovery.
cc
October 17th, 2012
6:39 pm
That Black Guy:
“The recession ENDED 6 to 8 months into Obama’s FIRST year. Where you get 3 years?”
Ask the people who are “living” the recession if they think it has ended. “It ain’t over ‘til it’s over”, and it won’t be over until Obama is history in January.
cc
October 17th, 2012
6:41 pm
@@, it’s just typical dimocrat behavior.
@@
October 17th, 2012
6:43 pm
Meat drippings?
The brown bits stuck on the bottom of the….
.
.
.
skillet?
cc
October 17th, 2012
6:50 pm
Giblet Gravy?
cc
October 17th, 2012
6:52 pm
Runny Gravy?
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
7:33 pm
Faux gravy!
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 17th, 2012
7:36 pm
The “official” recession ended in Jun 2009; we have been suffering with Obama’s faux recovery for 3+ years.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 18th, 2012
6:45 am
Finn: The Cons aren’t voting against Obozo, they are voting American.
—————
Fixed.
kelly
October 19th, 2012
4:03 pm
Romney should be clobbering Obama. But he’s not even ahead! That should tell us something about the quality of the candidate. He and his running mate are neophytes at foreign policy and would be a disaster. The Middle East would look at these two guys and think “uh, oh…here comes Bush again.” Their simplistic pronouncements on Israel, Iran, the Palestinians, China, etc., are frightening.
Chapter 3: Live thread for the final Obama-Romney debate | Kyle Wingfield
October 22nd, 2012
6:31 pm
[...] debate — declaring Obama the winner. I took some heat from some of my regular commenters for predicting Obama wouldn’t get a boost from the debate. But sure enough, Romney is a slightly larger [...]