A spirited debate that ultimately won’t boost Obama
If President Obama needed a win — any kind of win, by any margin — in last night’s presidential debate, maybe he can claim victory. But if he needed a decisive win in which he regained the initiative by spelling out his vision for the next four years, he’ll have to wait until next week and hope the third time’s the charm.
For Obama did not win such a victory. Personally, I would have called it a draw at worst, because the best, most sustained argument all night came from Mitt Romney, talking about Obama’s economic record, in response to a man who asked the president why he should vote for him again. It was a withering recitation of the missed opportunities of Obama’s presidency. “We don’t have to live like this” and “we don’t have to settle for [insert specific item from Romney's list of Obamanomics miseries here]” were simple but powerful points about what voters overwhelmingly call the most important issue of this campaign. The fact that Romney was responding to a question from a black man, whose demographic has been described as unanimously in favor of Obama, only made his answer more effective.
In snap polls of undecided voters by both CBS News and CNN, Romney won on the economy question by almost a 2-to-1 margin, reminiscent of his debate drubbing of Obama in Denver on Oct. 3.
Overall, those surveyed by both CBS and CNN gave Obama a narrow victory. CBS had it at 37 percent saying Obama won, 30 percent saying Romney, and 33 percent calling it a draw. CNN: 46 percent Obama, 39 percent Romney, 15 percent tie.
In other words, on a night when he needed to regain the momentum, more than half of undecided voters did not say Obama won — and his pluralities not only were at or below his current level in national polls but were also within each poll’s margin of error. This was no thunderbolt like Romney’s Denver performance, which registered the largest margin of victory in Gallup’s history of polling debate results. Yes, Obama “showed some life.” But is this what the Planet-Healer and Sea-Lowerer has fallen to? Showing a pulse?
So, perceptions about the candidates haven’t altered much. Did either land any blows on substance?
Besides the economic monologue by Romney I already mentioned, there were few, if any, clear-cut victories. The Obama campaign will try to make hay out of the president’s sharp line about being “offended” by Romney’s suggestion that he or members of his administration were playing politics with the lethal attack on our consulate in Benghazi. But Obama also kept the issue alive by insisting he’d said terrorists were behind the attack as soon as the second day, when in fact his reference that day to “acts of terror” came after he mentioned the original 9/11 attacks and was not specifically applied to Benghazi. What’s more, Obama and members of his administration still kept referring to the anti-Islam YouTube video and the protests it allegedly sparked for weeks after the attacks; we now know the State Department knew very early on that there had been no such protests in Benghazi. Hashing this out in the press for even a couple of days more does not help Obama — and we’re bound to revisit the issue during next week’s debate, which specifically covers foreign policy.
On energy, both men essentially accused each other of lying about the facts on U.S. fossil-fuel production. National Journal notes that oil production on public land rose between 2008 and 2011, as Obama said — albeit possibly due to policies put in place by the Bush administration, given the lag time between policy making and the effect in the field — but there was less natural gas and coal from public land, as Romney said.
The back-and-forth about Romney’s tax plan covered little new ground, and each candidate can point to a study that supposedly proves his point. About the only thing new was Romney’s hint that taxpayers will have a cap for whichever deductions they choose to use. He emphatically promised more than once neither to raise taxes on the middle class nor to lower the tax burden on the wealthy. Obama could do little else but insinuate Romney would break these promises.
In all, the one big thing Romney did well was to keep the president tied firmly to his record in office, while the one big thing Obama failed to do was sketch out a vision for the next four years other than staying the course — a course, of course, of which a majority of Americans disapprove. Those are the two most relevant outcomes from the debate, and they don’t help the incumbent.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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406 comments Add your comment
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 17th, 2012
2:16 pm
David Bowie – Thought you were dead! Was trying to put a little humor in today, you guys seem so stressed. A fact – small businesses and working people like Romney, those that always want handouts and freebies want Obama. Face it, small businesses do not like Obama! Obama will probably win, moochers are not willing to give up freebies, even if a job is available. Unless same party wins President, Senate and House, nothing significant will get done. Those two parties will NEVER agree? When we are dead and gone, they will still be arguing!
gm
October 17th, 2012
2:17 pm
kayaker 71
Compare Candy education and journalist background to Rush the Scum,
Limbaugh: High School drop out, ex druger, ex top 10 DJ, its not even close;;;;;;;;
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
2:18 pm
kayaker
Why show your own self loathing but demeaning the appearance of the moderator?
It speaks volumes about you. Not her
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
2:19 pm
Tom
They have been arguing since the inception of the country
Nothing new. Either one is a prize.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:19 pm
From our friend on the left, Mr Bookman…
“Gallup: Romney busts out a six-point lead
1:48 pm October 17, 2012, by Jay
Obama supporters buoyed by last night’s debate performance just got a glass of cold water in the face in the form of the latest Gallup numbers among likely voters:
Romney: 51 percent
Obama: 45 percent”
And there it is. Like rats running for the lifeboats our dem friends will continue to grasp at anything as the USS Obama slides slowly under the cold frigid waters of reality.
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
2:21 pm
This beefy liberal heifer…
Classy.
But what would one expect from someone who wrote that “blacks have only recently come down out of the trees.”
I ____ you not.
The Limbaugh-led poster boy of the Georgia GOP – K71.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 17th, 2012
2:21 pm
Gravy Train@1:24 – Not nice to say that about Kyle, at least he is skilled enough to have a job, even if it means listing to Obama groupies like you. Go back to your hero’s blog site, Mr Jay Big Bird Bookman, I hear him calling you for dinner! I think CROW is on the menu today!!
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
2:23 pm
gm, 2:17,
This high school dropout has the largest daytime radio show in the world, carried on over 600 stations with an excess of 2,000 sponsors. His listening base on a daily basis is over 3M people. I would say that this dropout has done pretty well.
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
2:23 pm
iggy, you do realize how we elect the POTUS, right?
Are you one of those UGA guys who obsesses over the Time of Possession stat instead of the scoreboard?
gm
October 17th, 2012
2:24 pm
Who cares about Gallop? its all about Ohio, Va, Fl Obama is either leading or tied,
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:24 pm
“beefy” LOL!!!
Matz
October 17th, 2012
2:25 pm
Gallup is setting the stage for the Diebold fix. Neither corporation will disclose the fees they received for their valuable service.
Kyle Wingfield
October 17th, 2012
2:26 pm
JamVet: You do realize that, if Romney wins the popular vote by 6 points, he will win 300+ EVs?
Fwiw, I think the Gallup poll is wrong. Just like the ABC/WaPo poll a couple of days ago that had Obama up 3 points. Throw those out, and the other five polls still listed in the RCP average go like this: Romney +1 in three polls, Obama +1 in two polls.
Which means it’s a dead heat in the popular vote … which means it’s either man’s game in the Electoral College, too. You wouldn’t have a popular vote that close and have all the swing states fall in one candidate’s direction.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:27 pm
FL has moved to the Romney column
VA has moved to toss up.
FL, VA, OH, NH, WI will come home to the Romney camp and probably will CO.
Jam…I heard we have something called the Electaplorable College?
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
2:28 pm
JamVet, 2:21,
You have the quote wrong. It was not, ” that blacks have only recently come down from the trees”. I was describing that Black Panther thug from PA and stated that ” this thug has not come down from the trees yet”. You are as bad as Bookman.
gm
October 17th, 2012
2:28 pm
kayaker 71
Hitler had millions of idiots that followed him, what that tell you his audience are low misinformed bigots who dont have the guts to confront people in their face.
How many protest, stance, or causes have you ever seen this piece of scum involved in thats not siting behind a mic, he uses low, middle class whites to fight for him while he ranks in millions off you idiots””””
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:31 pm
Whenever Obama opens his mouth its considered a Weapon of Gas Destruction.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:33 pm
“Diebold fix”
The GOP has already rigged the machines where needed. Its in the bag!!.
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
2:35 pm
An excess of 2,000 sponsors, my ass.
71, where do you come up with your made up gibberish?
But if what you wrote is true about the trees comment, I owe you a semi-evolved Darwinist apology!
if Romney wins the popular vote by 6 points, he will win 300+ EVs?
And if my aunt had…. (you know the rest.)
But I’m thoroughly enjoying watching you guys genuflect for your train wreck of a gawdawful candidate. The most spineless man I have ever seen in politics. Seriously.
So I’ll do my duty by voting against BHO again, but for you Republirubes, keep on…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycbgHM1mI0k
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
2:36 pm
How do you libs feel about all of the promises that Bozo made to get your 2008 vote? There are a lot of pretty pissed off people that feel that they got shafted for supporting this buffoon. They are wising up, finally. Bozo’s train is losing it’s wheels.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 17th, 2012
2:36 pm
Kyle@2:26 – I respect your honesty in that post. The country is split in half! On one side is the Democrats and on the other side is Americans! Got that line from Frank Lutz(pollster) talking to Bill Maher a couple nites ago. Maher was speechless when he said that! Yes, I have no idea why I was watching Bill Maher on HBO that nite. Just remember Fair and Balanced wins the day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:38 pm
“The most spineless man I have ever seen in politics.”
I think that title belongs to Mr Carter.
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
2:40 pm
JamVet, 2:35,
National sponsors equal about nearly 100. Local sponsors on local radio outlets average close to 4 sponsors/station. 600 stations nationwide that carry his radio show….. you do the math.
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:41 pm
Obama seems to have moved on from US President. He is now fixated on becoming King of The World or atleast the Prince of Darkness…BWWWUUHHHAAAHHAAHAA
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
2:42 pm
Which means it’s a dead heat in the popular vote … which means it’s either man’s game in the Electoral College, too. You wouldn’t have a popular vote that close and have all the swing states fall in one candidate’s direction.
Give it some time, Kyle. When people are forced to make their final choice, I think they’ll take a hard look at who will best help our economy. Everything else is just window dressing, especially BS like free contraceptives.
For the record, I’ve been giving Romney at least a 50-50 shot from the beginning, way back to when every poll had him way behind. There’s no way that the next debate is going to help Obama since it focuses on foreign policy, which has been a glaring failure for Obama and Co.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
2:53 pm
So Romney is even lying about the binders full of women? He didn’t initiate the search for women.
UPDATE: And now straight from the horse’s mouth. MassGAP, the women’s coalition responsible for the effort to get more women appointed to state government, gives the Washington Post a statement saying Romney has it wrong — they, and not Romney, initiated the process. The group also notes that female appointments actually fell off during Romney’s tenure.
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/17/the_truth_about_romneys_binders_full_of_women/
Come on, man!
iggy
October 17th, 2012
2:54 pm
Im sorry but Romney initiated the process.
NEXT!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
2:55 pm
equal about nearly 100
so, 65! Is that your number?
About? Nearly, kinda? In the ballpark?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
2:58 pm
The process was initiated in the summer , before the election even took place.
Road Scholar
October 17th, 2012
3:00 pm
” National Journal notes that oil production on public land rose between 2008 and 2011, as Obama said — albeit possibly due to policies put in place by the Bush administration, given the lag time between policy making and the effect in the field…”
So Kyle, from that statement above, you then must agree (although you will deny it along with your minions) that the recession in the first 3 years of the Obama Presidency was the result “possibly due to policies put in place by the Bush administration,” regardless of any changes that were tried to be made, esp since the House blocked most if not all Pres Obama’s changes..
Road Scholar
October 17th, 2012
3:02 pm
iggy: According to Romney!
I wonder how much the women in his “cabinet” were paid in respect to the men? Remember the question was on how women were treated, including pay inequity.
Georgia
October 17th, 2012
3:02 pm
Kyle wrote his headline well before the new poll showing that Romney won the debate, and now has a big lead. Period. Kyle is correct. It looks like an uphill struggle for Obama, because I don’t think Obama can perform any better than he did last night. It’s simply too little too late.
Still not funny Joke I’ve been trying to write all day: ” Those who saw the debate on television thought Obama won. Those who watched the debate on their Etch-a-Sketch thought Romney won”.
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
3:04 pm
Bozo’s foreign policy is worse than his economic guidance. Fodder for the cannon….
1. The Libya fiasco….. this is far from over. It is evident that Hillary fell on her sword to protect her chances in 2016. She and Bill hate Bozo and everything he stands for. They wouldn’t walk across the street for this clown.
2. Fast and Furious….. Holder is guilty of lying to Congress and covering up the worst domestic and foreign cluster in recent history. Getting a border agent killed, covering Holder’s ass with an order of Executive Privilege. Do you think that the American voter is that stupid?
3. The Apology Tour….. Americans don’t like to see their president grovel in front of anyone. That one video of Bozo bowing to that scummy Arab that runs a Wahhabi school that teaches children how to carry around bombs? Americans like winners, not losers. We are the most giving, caring and generous nation on earth….. You don’t see anyone lined up to get into Iran, do you?
4. Foreign Trade….. Bozo loses it when it comes to dealing with the Chinese. All he knows is how to borrow money from them. They have a terribly depressed currency that makes their goods cost more and ours cost less. Our trade balance with them stinks and as Bozo states, he has done very little to raise the currency standard with China.
5. Immigration…… no firm policy, hit and miss, nothing but measures to gain latino votes. Our border is like a sieve and more come across every day. A tougher stance with Mexico and defending our borders to keep Americans that live on the border safe. Bozo doesn’t have the balls.
6. The Middle East….. our policy of appeasement, apology, “leading from behind”, has been a disaster. We should cut aid to all of these countries that burn our flags, bomb our consulates and kill our people. Winning their hearts and minds is impossible at this time. They were all supposed to shove roses in their gun barrels when Bozo was elected president. We all know how that has turned out.
7. Europe….. it is time for the European to step up and defend itself. We expend way to much money on their economy, give away too much aid to those who are able to take care of themselves. Bring em home. I sure enjoyed my tour in Munich, Germany in the 60s but the time has come.
8. Energy Independence…… we should be able to tell OPEC to shove it inside of 8 yrs. By the end of Romney’s second term, we should have enough wells in place on public and federal land to ease way up on gas prices. If we buy what little we need from people like Canada, Brazil and England, we can tell OPEC goodbye.
These are just for openers. I am sure that Romney is better at pointing this out and I am. But count on it….. this next debate will be the final nail in Bozos’ coffin. He has no excuse.
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
3:10 pm
kayaker
were you the one that said “count on it” for last night’s debate as well?
JamVet
October 17th, 2012
3:12 pm
71, are you using Reaganomics to “explain” the number of Rush’s sponsors?
I’m still laughing at how th oaf stepped on his fat tongue vis a vis American women are sluts, prostitutes and FemiNazis and he wants the videos.
think that title belongs to Mr Carter.
Please do explain, iggy.
Mitt couldn’t shine Carter’s Naval Academy boots.
…which has been a glaring failure for Obama and Co.
Nope, B.
He punked the neocons at their own War on Terror game.
He surged into Afghanistan. Though the suddenly war weary Republicans (LOL) mysteriously fought him over that.
He droned the hell out of a SLEW of bad guys/Taliban types.
He helped NATO kill a bunch of Libyan thugs with no loss of American lives.
And he got Public Enemy Number One.
So the Romney PNAC stooges are left scratching their birther heads…
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
3:17 pm
David Bowie, 3:10,
If the Gallup Poll taken today is any indication of how the candidates did, I think you have answered your own question. As each day goes by, America is waking up. If the election were held today, Bozo would lose big time. And its just 23 days away with a debate on foreign policy next. Can’t wait.
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
3:19 pm
kayaker
Odds are great in Vegas. How much you laying down on Romney?
You could make a bundle
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
3:21 pm
kayaker
And I am sure you are intelligent enough to understand that the Gallup poll was completed yesterday before the debate, right?
Put keep dreaming.
kayaker 71
October 17th, 2012
3:25 pm
David Bowie, 3:21,
And the bookies said that the Jets could never win Super Bowl three either. There have been only 2 one term presidents in the last 50yrs and we are ready to make it three.
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
3:31 pm
kayaker
They don’t build those huge hotels in Vegas, Biloxi and Atlantic City because they are losing on a regular basis….
The lose, but “lets the odds ever be in your favor”
David Bowie
October 17th, 2012
3:32 pm
They lose………………….
Truth Squad
October 17th, 2012
3:32 pm
Wow, now the Gallup poll is ok again since it shows what appears to be good news for Romney.
But the truth is found in the crosstabs of the poll: Obama leads in the East and Midwest- 52-48. Obama leads in the West-53-47.
The only section Romney leads in our beloved South-61-39!
Now if folks like Kyle believe such a disparity is enough to produce a majority electoral vote in November for Romney, then they best look at a map of our country and do the math. But hey, they’ve got that hopey thing working for ‘em right now.
MarkV
October 17th, 2012
3:42 pm
Dusty @1:20 pm
Dusty,
I am a little surprised by your strong condemnation of the debate. Could the reason be that this time President Obama did not allow Gov. Romney to bully him, like in the first one?
I was also surprised by your accusation that “The audience was carefully selected to show diversity. of skin color if not for good ideas.” How do you know that? Considering that only one questioner was African- American, what do you mean by the “skin color” comment?
While I, as you know, usually respond strongly to lies, I do not thing that there were too many in this debate. There were many misleading statements and inaccuracies on both sides, but few true lies. One exception was Romney’s accusation that “The president’s policies throughout the Middle East began with an apology tour…” This disgusting piece of demagoguery has been called totally false many times and still Romney is dishonest enough to repeat it.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
3:46 pm
Crowley: ‘Gov. Romney, sit down’.
mwuahahahahahha
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 17th, 2012
3:57 pm
Most recently, we’ve learned that Arthur Allen, CEO of ASG Software Solutions, sent an email to workers with the following subject line: “Will the US Presidential election directly impact your future jobs at ASG? Please read below.”
alternet.org
Way to go, Cons. Voter intimidation.
Del
October 17th, 2012
4:00 pm
Candy Crawley is now saying that Romney was correct but that’s only to salvage her reputation as a creditable media personality. It was clear to anyone with an unbiased view that she was tipping for Obama last night.
getalife
October 17th, 2012
4:06 pm
If you refuse to unite to show patriotism and play politics instead on the Libya attack you are a terrorist sympathizer.Period.
Patty
October 17th, 2012
4:09 pm
I love how the whole embassy thing is being downplayed, especially in light of what our allies are reporting.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218841/Presidential-Debate-2012-Outrage-moderator-Candy-Crowley-sides-Obama.html
Bob
October 17th, 2012
4:15 pm
I watched the entire debate. Obama mostly mopped the floor with Romney.
Del
October 17th, 2012
4:22 pm
” Obama mostly mopped the floor with Romney.”
Bob, You’re among the few who saw it that way. If Gallup’s 6 pt. jump for Romney over Obama is accurate, Romney’s mopping the floor with Obama where it counts and that’s in the poll of likely voters.