Round 2: Live thread for second Obama-Romney debate
UPDATE at 10:28 p.m.: Predicted sound-bite highlights of the night: Romney’s devastating rundown of the failed economic recovery the past four years, Obama’s comment that it’s “offensive” for Romney to suggest he and his administration weren’t forthright about Benghazi attacks. The former was the best, most sustained argument of the night from either man. The latter, a perfect way for Obama sympathizers to say “the president is back!” We’ll see which one — or something else — resonated the most with voters.
***
UPDATE at 9:54 p.m.: One story line tomorrow will be the way Romney dinged George W. Bush for his budget deficits. And, also in his answer to the way he differs from Bush, says his party “has been focused on big business for too long” and should be more focused on small business. That answer flies in the face of one of Obama’s main lines of attack tonight.
***
UPDATE at 9:36 p.m.: Obama says, “It’s just not true.” Romney says, “It’s absolutely true.” The topic doesn’t matter — it’s been like that all night. This one will go to the fact-checkers.
***
UPDATE at 9:15 p.m.: So far, “aggressive Obama” sounds a lot like “lecturing Obama.” He also is making a big bet that viewers will believe his argument that Romney only cares about Big Business and “the rich.” We’ll see how well the two work as a combo.
***
Will we finally see a second-term vision from President Obama tonight? That’s the advice from Democratic consultant extraordinaire James Carville’s firm, Democracy Corps:
The campaign has reached a tipping point where we believe the president has to offer a bold narrative, policies and choice if he is to win re-election and get to a substantial enough victory that enables him to govern and face the great challenges ahead. The first debate really did disrupt the race and presents a painful real-time test of what happens when the president tries to convince people of progress and offer a very modest vision of future change. Voters are not looking for continuity but changes that help the average Joe.
So far, Obama’s second-term vision consists of more of the things he did with Democratic majorities in Congress or would have accomplished, if it weren’t for those darn Republicans after the 2010 midterm “shellacking.” Put another way: leftovers.
Carville’s firm suggests he try something else — but in fact, the advice looks a lot like using better, more poll-tested ways of saying essentially what he’s been saying all along. This is a bit reminiscent of Obama’s customary excuse that he just hasn’t explained himself well enough. And if Obama does come out with new proposals tonight, will that be satisfactory to undecided voters — or will they see it as a cynical ploy this late in the game?
We shall see. The live-blogging will commence shortly after the debate does, and I’ll be tweeting my thoughts as well.
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
361 comments Add your comment
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:48 pm
“Did Romney tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth?”
Instead of asking the question of others, Politico, why don’t you give us some specifics instead of blanket statements?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:50 pm
“You couldn’t fight your way out of bed. So you are the last person that should be telling anyone to man up”
Why are liberals afraid to defend their stances with facts?
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:51 pm
Energy production on federal lands
Romney: “Oil production is down 14 percent this year on federal land, and gas production was down 9 percent.”
In fact, the Congressional Research Service has said that oil production on federal lands was up slightly in 2011 compared with 2007.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82505_Page3.html#ixzz29WbdH7xt
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:52 pm
Hey, religious bigot!
Romney pretty much debunked that whole lie as well tonight, and pointed out that Obama has investments in China and the Caymans in his own portfolio.
Ooops!
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:52 pm
Obama fundraising after Libya attack
Romney: “[O]n the day following the assassination of the United States ambassador, the first time that’s happened since 1979, when — when we have four Americans killed there, when apparently we didn’t know what happened, that the president, the day after that happened, flies to Las Vegas for a political fund-raiser, then the next day to Colorado for another … political event.”
Obama did go to Las Vegas on Sept. 12. But it was for an open press campaign rally there, not a fundraiser. The event was pushed back a few hours so that the president could first speak about the Benghazi attack from the Rose Garden, with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton by his side. Obama continued on to Colorado that night for another planned day of campaigning there.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82505_Page3.html#ixzz29WbqModm
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:52 pm
What were you saying little man?
Bruno
October 16th, 2012
11:53 pm
Politico @ 11:51–Try a little harder. Comparisons are done year-over-year.
Dusty
October 16th, 2012
11:53 pm
Politico
Romney told the truth. Maybe you didn’t recognize it because you don’t use it much.
I will repeat it for you since you seem a bit prejudiced.. Romney told the truth.
Gravy Train
October 16th, 2012
11:54 pm
Yes Willard are, as in plural, as in the many faces and flip-flops
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:54 pm
Tiberius
Spin it for your your hero. Yes, like Obama he lied tonight
Be a good little sheep
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:55 pm
ROMNEY: “I know he keeps saying, ‘You want to take Detroit bankrupt.’ Well, the president took Detroit bankrupt. You took General Motors bankrupt. You took Chrysler bankrupt. So when you say that I wanted to take the auto industry bankrupt, you actually did. And I think it’s important to know that that was a process that was necessary to get those companies back on their feet, so they could start hiring more people. That was precisely what I recommended and ultimately what happened.”
THE FACTS: What Romney recommended did not happen, and his proposed path probably would have forced General Motors and Chrysler out of business. He opposed using government money to bail out the automakers, instead favoring privately financed bankruptcy restructuring. But the automakers were bleeding cash and were poor credit risks. The banking system was in crisis. So private loans weren’t available. Without government aid, both companies probably would have gone under and their assets sold in pieces
Bruno
October 16th, 2012
11:55 pm
What were you saying little man?
Better read your own links lest you look foolish, Politico, From the article:
“According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, sales of crude oil and other “condensate production” on federal lands and waters are down from last year — though they’re higher than during the later years under Bush. The agency says that amounts to 627 million barrels in 2011, 726 million barrels in 2010″
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:55 pm
ROMNEY: “The proof of whether a strategy is working or not is what the price is that you’re paying at the pump. If you’re paying less than you paid a year or two ago, why, then, the strategy is working. But you’re paying more. When the president took office, the price of gasoline here in Nassau County was about $1.86 a gallon. Now, it’s $4.00 a gallon. The price of electricity is up. If the president’s energy policies are working, you’re going to see the cost of energy come down.”
THE FACTS: Presidents have almost no effect on energy prices; most are set on financial exchanges around the world. When Obama took office, the world was in the grip of a financial crisis and crude prices—and gasoline prices along with them—had plummeted because world demand had collapsed. Crude oil prices have since risen even as U.S. oil production has soared in recent years because global demand is reaching new heights as the developing economies of Asia use more oil.
Other energy prices have fallen during Obama’s term. Electricity prices, when adjusted for inflation, are down, and homeowners are finding it much cheaper to heat their homes with natural gas. That’s because natural gas production has surged, reducing prices both for homeowners and for utilities that burn gas to generate electricity.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:56 pm
“Obama did go to Las Vegas on Sept. 12. But it was for an open press campaign rally there, not a fundraiser. ”
Yeah, ’cause of course they don’t ask for donations at any campaign rallies, do they, Politico?
And the point being made was that if Romney had been President, he would have canceled any political rally and gotten to the bottom of the attack right away, because the death of an ambassador in the service of his country is more important that grubbing for votes.
Are you sure you aren’t MarkV? You wordsmith with the best of them.
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:56 pm
ROMNEY: “I’m going to bring rates down across the board for everybody, but I’m going to limit deductions and exemptions and credits, particularly for people at the high end, because I am not going to have people at the high end pay less than they’re paying now.”
THE FACTS: Romney is proposing to cut all income tax rates by 20 percent, eliminate the estate tax and the alternative minimum tax, maintain and expand tax breaks for investment income, and do it all without adding to the deficit or shifting the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle class. He says he would pay for the tax cuts by reducing or eliminating tax deductions, exemptions and credits, but he can’t achieve all of his goals it under the budget rules presidents must follow.
The Tax Policy Center, a Washington research group, says in a study that the tax cuts proposed by Romney would reduce federal tax revenues by about $5 trillion over 10 years. The study concludes that there aren’t enough tax breaks for the wealthy to make up the lost revenue, so the proposal would either add to the deficit or shift more of the tax burden on to the middle class.
Gravy Train
October 16th, 2012
11:56 pm
Willard is getting destroyed by fact checkers yet again.
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:56 pm
ROMNEY: “A recent study has shown that people in the middle class will see $4,000 a year in higher taxes as a result of the spending and borrowing of this administration.”
THE FACTS: Romney’s claim is based on an analysis by the conservative American Enterprise Institute that examines the amount of debt that has accumulated on Obama’s watch and in a potential second term and computes how much it would cost to finance that debt through tax increases. Annual deficits under Obama have exceeded $1 trillion for each year of his term.
However, Obama is not responsible for all of the deficits that have occurred on his watch. Most of the federal budget—like Medicare, food stamps, Medicaid and Social Security—runs on autopilot, and no one in a leadership position in Washington has proposed deep cuts in those programs. And politicians in both parties voted two years ago the renew Bush-era tax cuts that have contributed to the deficit. Even under the strict spending cuts proposed by Romney, the debt would continue to rise, just not as fast.
Gravy Train
October 16th, 2012
11:58 pm
I guess those magic underwear have lost their mojo?
Bruno
October 16th, 2012
11:58 pm
Lot of “probably”s in your 11:55, Politico. That doesn’t meet the threshhold of a “lie”.
So far, Tiberius 2, Politico 0, and Ti hasn’t even made a statement.
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:58 pm
There are plenty for Obama as well.
You sheep keep thinking that it is just Obama who lies
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:59 pm
ROMNEY: Obama’s health care plan “puts in place an unelected board that’s going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have. I don’t like that idea.”
THE FACTS: Romney is referring to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, a panel of experts that would have the power to force Medicare cuts if costs rise beyond certain levels and Congress fails to act. But Obama’s health care law explicitly prohibits the board from rationing care, shifting costs to retirees, restricting benefits or raising the Medicare eligibility age. So the board doesn’t have the power to dictate to doctors what treatments they can prescribe.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
12:00 am
“THE OPINION: What Romney recommended did not happen, and his proposed path probably would have forced General Motors and Chrysler out of business. He opposed using government money to bail out the automakers, instead favoring privately financed bankruptcy restructuring. But the automakers were bleeding cash and were poor credit risks. The banking system was in crisis. So private loans weren’t available. Without government aid, both companies probably would have gone under and their assets sold in pieces”
Fixed your typo in the second word, Politico.
Here’s the facts, Politico. Corporations both large and small undergo restructuring each and every day without government help, and do so while staying open for business.
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
12:00 am
However, Obama is not responsible for all of the deficits that have occurred on his watch. Most of the federal budget—like Medicare, food stamps, Medicaid and Social Security—runs on autopilot, and no one in a leadership position in Washington has proposed deep cuts in those programs.
The old, “I’m not responsible” crap once again.
Your cut-n-pastes have already grown stale, Politico.
It’s this simple: If you want 4 more years of whining and making excuses, then vote for Obama. If you want someone who will actually try to solve problems, vote for Romney.
Politico
October 17th, 2012
12:01 am
Two Bookman rejects hanging on for life
hahahahahha
ROMNEY: “Right now, the CBO says up to 20 million people will lose their insurance as Obamacare goes into effect next year.”
THE FACTS: Romney is making selective use of the Congressional Budget Office’s March findings on how employers might adjust to the new health law. The neutral Washington scorekeeper actually gave Congress four scenarios — ranging from a net increase in employer-provided coverage for 3 million people to the decrease of 20 million that Romney cited.
Politico
October 17th, 2012
12:02 am
Bruno
You claim to be the smartest dude around. If so, then you should have read I am not voting for either of those clowns
So speaking of stale…… telling me about Obama is just stupid and stale on your part
Dusty
October 17th, 2012
12:02 am
What a joke! POLITICO thinks there is a big difference in a fund raiser and press conference. Both are to raise funds and voters whether through the ;press or ;promises. But he knows that and so does Romney.
So many liberals never give up twisiting the facts to give the right answers. A fundraiser by any other name is still to raise funds whether through the press, the people, or propaganda.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
12:04 am
“The Tax Policy Center, a Washington research group, says in a study that the tax cuts proposed by Romney would reduce federal tax revenues by about $5 trillion over 10 years. The study concludes that there aren’t enough tax breaks for the wealthy to make up the lost revenue, so the proposal would either add to the deficit or shift more of the tax burden on to the middle class.”
You DO realize that the very people you cite (The Tax Policy Center) have disputed the conclusions being made about Romney’s tax plan by the Obama campaign, don’t you, Politico?
News Flash! They have. You’re just reprinting DNC talking points now.
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
12:04 am
You sheep keep thinking that it is just Obama who lies
I never said that, but you haven’t exposed even one lie by Romney yet, while Obama passed a few whoppers off.
But Obama’s health care law explicitly prohibits the board from rationing care
Are you really that dumb, Politico?? Treatments will be either approved or denied across the board by this unelected “Independent Payment Advisory Board”. In some cases, that may be a good thing, but to deny that care will be rationed vie this approval process is just plain stupid.
If you want to appear to have any intelligence at all, you’re going to have to do better than these mindless cut-n-pastes.
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
12:05 am
Tibi: For your name calling to be correct, the Mormon Cult would have to be a universally recognized legitimate religion. Sadly, for you, it is not. It is a cult based on the delusions of an egomaniacal psychopath, Joseph Smith. To drive home the point, I challenge you or any other cult member to produce scientific empirical data proving the claims put forth in the “Book of Mormon.” Archaeological, geological, genetic or multiple historical accounts are all acceptable.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
12:05 am
“ROMNEY: “Right now, the CBO says up to 20 million people will lose their insurance as Obamacare goes into effect next year.”
THE FACTS: Romney is making selective use of the Congressional Budget Office’s March findings on how employers might adjust to the new health law. The neutral Washington scorekeeper actually gave Congress four scenarios — ranging from a net increase in employer-provided coverage for 3 million people to the decrease of 20 million that Romney cited.”
You DO understand the meaning of the words “up to”, don’t you Politico? Romney was right again.
This is too easy.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
12:07 am
“ROMNEY: Obama’s health care plan “puts in place an unelected board that’s going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have. I don’t like that idea.”
THE FACTS: Romney is referring to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, a panel of experts that would have the power to force Medicare cuts if costs rise beyond certain levels and Congress fails to act. But Obama’s health care law explicitly prohibits the board from rationing care, shifting costs to retirees, restricting benefits or raising the Medicare eligibility age. So the board doesn’t have the power to dictate to doctors what treatments they can prescribe.”
Prescribe? No, and that’s not what Romney was saying, either.
Pay for? You bet! How many people are going to have a procedure they can’t pay for, Politico?
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
12:08 am
You claim to be the smartest dude around. If so, then you should have read I am not voting for either of those clowns
I don’t really care who you’re voting for. I’m just pointing out, as Ti did above, that you’re mindlessly regurgitating DNC talking points with no analysis of your own.
Any time you want some real debate, look me up. There’s not a Lib on this board who can keep up with me or Ti.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
12:09 am
“To drive home the point, I challenge you or any other cult member to produce scientific empirical data proving the claims put forth in the “Book of Mormon.””
Right after you provide scientific proof that Jesus turned water into wine, or was resurrected, Gravy.
Politico
October 17th, 2012
12:10 am
Make that 3 Bookman rejects…….. sorry to leave you out Dusty
My apologies
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
12:12 am
Make that 3 Bookman rejects…….. sorry to leave you out Dusty
You’re turning into a bigger POS with each post, Politico. Why son’t you skedaddle back to Bookman’s where your BS wont’ be challenged. You obviously can’t handle any real debate.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
12:13 am
“However, Obama is not responsible for all of the deficits that have occurred on his watch. Most of the federal budget—like Medicare, food stamps, Medicaid and Social Security—runs on autopilot, and no one in a leadership position in Washington has proposed deep cuts in those programs.”
Really? Then who is the Chief Executive of the USA, Politico? If he isn’t, who is? When is this administration going to take ANY responsibility for their actions (or non-actions)?
And I thought according to you libs that Medicare and Social Security were not contributing to the deficit and debt . . .
Ooops!
Gravy Train
October 17th, 2012
12:13 am
Cool, Tibi. Just duck the question and deflect (just like Willard) because you’ve got nothing but magic underwear to prove your point.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
12:15 am
So, got anymore DNC talking points I can debunk for you on the “Romney lied” front, Politico?
Keep setting ‘em up so I can keep knocking ‘em down!
Politico
October 17th, 2012
12:15 am
Bruno
Don’t call someone what you are………….
You ball spiker.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
12:17 am
Gravy, if your argument is to debunk Mormonism as a religion because of a lack of scientific proof, you should be able to prove Christianity is based on scientific proof, right?
The bottom-line is that BOTH require FAITH, Gravy.
And you’re just a petty, small-minded religious bigot.
Dusty
October 17th, 2012
12:17 am
POLITICO
Why are you here berating all conservatives when you say you are not voting for Romney or Obama? All this namecalling just for fun?
Maybe you are sick or just not honest in what you say.. Either way is bad news.
Politico
October 17th, 2012
12:18 am
Dusty
I said Obama was a liar as well and a clown just as Romney is
What do you want? If you are in love with Romney and Gravy Train is in love with Obama that is your choice.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
12:21 am
“I said Obama was a liar as well and a clown just as Romney is”
And yet every attempt you’ve made to prove Romney lied has come straight from the DNC handbook, Politico.
Epic failure on your part to make a case.
Bruno
October 17th, 2012
12:22 am
Maybe you are sick or just not honest in what you say.. Either way is bad news.
Nah, just one more Lib Loser who can’t argue his way out of a paper bag. Then, when all else fails, he falls back on grade school blog gossip in order to save face.
Politico
October 17th, 2012
12:23 am
Actually you cherry picked the post and didn’t address all of them, but if you feel better about yourself and Wingfield is going to send you a gold star, then I do not want to stop him from doing so.
Politico
October 17th, 2012
12:25 am
Bruno
Don’t cry man. It will be ok.
The sun will shine tomorrow and we will have one of two clowns elected in November.
Politico
October 17th, 2012
12:27 am
Bruno
And facts are not gossip. If the truth to you is “gossip” that is on you, but believe as you see fit. You are a grown man.
Take care everyone
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 17th, 2012
12:28 am
“Actually you cherry picked the post and didn’t address all of them”
No, I think I covered them all, Politico.
.
Another failure for you
Matz
October 17th, 2012
12:30 am
“… and they brought us whole binders full of women!”
HAHAHAHA! ROFLMAO
Dusty
October 17th, 2012
12:32 am
POLITICO
I think maybe you ARE sick. This is politics not a love affair. You fall all over Obama and then start smirking and insinuating ol’ stuff.. Move on! You are making yourself look lower than dirt.