Round 2: Live thread for second Obama-Romney debate
UPDATE at 10:28 p.m.: Predicted sound-bite highlights of the night: Romney’s devastating rundown of the failed economic recovery the past four years, Obama’s comment that it’s “offensive” for Romney to suggest he and his administration weren’t forthright about Benghazi attacks. The former was the best, most sustained argument of the night from either man. The latter, a perfect way for Obama sympathizers to say “the president is back!” We’ll see which one — or something else — resonated the most with voters.
***
UPDATE at 9:54 p.m.: One story line tomorrow will be the way Romney dinged George W. Bush for his budget deficits. And, also in his answer to the way he differs from Bush, says his party “has been focused on big business for too long” and should be more focused on small business. That answer flies in the face of one of Obama’s main lines of attack tonight.
***
UPDATE at 9:36 p.m.: Obama says, “It’s just not true.” Romney says, “It’s absolutely true.” The topic doesn’t matter — it’s been like that all night. This one will go to the fact-checkers.
***
UPDATE at 9:15 p.m.: So far, “aggressive Obama” sounds a lot like “lecturing Obama.” He also is making a big bet that viewers will believe his argument that Romney only cares about Big Business and “the rich.” We’ll see how well the two work as a combo.
***
Will we finally see a second-term vision from President Obama tonight? That’s the advice from Democratic consultant extraordinaire James Carville’s firm, Democracy Corps:
The campaign has reached a tipping point where we believe the president has to offer a bold narrative, policies and choice if he is to win re-election and get to a substantial enough victory that enables him to govern and face the great challenges ahead. The first debate really did disrupt the race and presents a painful real-time test of what happens when the president tries to convince people of progress and offer a very modest vision of future change. Voters are not looking for continuity but changes that help the average Joe.
So far, Obama’s second-term vision consists of more of the things he did with Democratic majorities in Congress or would have accomplished, if it weren’t for those darn Republicans after the 2010 midterm “shellacking.” Put another way: leftovers.
Carville’s firm suggests he try something else — but in fact, the advice looks a lot like using better, more poll-tested ways of saying essentially what he’s been saying all along. This is a bit reminiscent of Obama’s customary excuse that he just hasn’t explained himself well enough. And if Obama does come out with new proposals tonight, will that be satisfactory to undecided voters — or will they see it as a cynical ploy this late in the game?
We shall see. The live-blogging will commence shortly after the debate does, and I’ll be tweeting my thoughts as well.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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361 comments Add your comment
The AntiBoortz
October 16th, 2012
11:11 pm
All these posts are just so much, “Yeah for our guy!” What a waste.
mike
October 16th, 2012
11:12 pm
You just can’t trust Republicans like George Will! Anybody knows that!
Georgia
October 16th, 2012
11:12 pm
Hey everyone! There’s an after debate party going on right now over at the political insider blog. Great fun!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:13 pm
mike, make your case then.
Using facts, not opinion.
I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for THAT kind of response from you.
Bruno
October 16th, 2012
11:13 pm
I want Romney to run my company, but I want Obama to run my country.
Georgia–Maybe you’ll wise up one day and realize that a strong economy cures nearly all ills. No amount of handouts ever lifted anyone out of poverty, which has been the Obama approach thus far.
The AntiBoortz
October 16th, 2012
11:14 pm
I’m moving to a state where my vote counts.
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:15 pm
They both lied………………
Anyone who thinks different is a liar themselves……..
Some polls will give edge to Romney and others to Obama
Doubt swing state polls sway too much either way
mike
October 16th, 2012
11:16 pm
“mike, make your case then.”
What are you talking about?
Dusty
October 16th, 2012
11:16 pm
Politico,
If Romney lied, he surely did fool me.because I did not hear any lies..
The president lied because he bragged on how well he had done in the past four years on many things.
The whole concept that we have had four good years under Obama is a total misconception which is a nice word for “LIE”.. We have not had four good years and only a fool would think so.
mike
October 16th, 2012
11:18 pm
“a strong economy cures nearly all ills.”
What we need is a “strong economy” like what George W. **** left us with.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:18 pm
Frank Luntz’s undecided focus group on FNC is going big for Romney. 2/3rds say they voted for Obama, five are keeping their votes, and 7 are going to Romney, but they were largely not impressed with Obama, saying he was on the defensive all night long.
MarkV
October 16th, 2012
11:18 pm
People who watched the debate can be divided into two groups: Those who know that Obama won the debate and say it, and those who know that Obama won the debate and deny it.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:19 pm
“What are you talking about?”
You know, mike, you shouldn’t drink and blog at the same time. I said it was a draw, and you disputed that claim, but didn’t back it up with anything but an insult.
Try facts, mike. Make your case that it wasn’t a draw.
mike
October 16th, 2012
11:20 pm
Romney came out looking for a free pass and found a growling bulldog.
Game over.
ODD OWL
October 16th, 2012
11:20 pm
President Obama had a great debate… He defeated Romney hands down… Obama won by 70% to 30% for Romney…
Hillbilly D
October 16th, 2012
11:20 pm
I didn’t watch the debate but watching the comments here, I’d say most people decided who won before it ever started.
td
October 16th, 2012
11:21 pm
I just watched a focus group of swing state voters and of the 10 that voted for Obama in 08, 5 are now going to vote for Romney (one said she was going to stay at home but now she will vote for Romney). This is all I need to know about this debate.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:21 pm
“People who watched the debate can be divided into two groups: Those who know that Obama won the debate and say it, and those who know that Obama won the debate and deny it.”
We already have one focus group denying your claim, MarkV, and they at least have open minds.
mike
October 16th, 2012
11:22 pm
If you think this debate was a draw, you will be enlightened tomorrow when the polls come out.
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:22 pm
Dusty
You are a fool if you think that Romney did not lie. Get you head out of his behind and start looking at other sources besides those that lean right.
They both lied
Ignorance is bliss. So carry on if that makes you feel good
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:22 pm
mike, try to take a view that is non-partisan.
Do you really think a “growing bulldog” is going to go over well with undecided women voters?
Bruno
October 16th, 2012
11:23 pm
You’re going to lose. Just like you lost in 2008 only worse.
mike–Although I’m sure that I’m wasting pixels by addressing you at all, let me help you see the light. At the end of Bush’s time in office, he was so unpopular that it was a virtual lock that the Dem candidate would win. The Republicans didn’t help themselves a bit by nominating an old, angry candidate (McCain) who picked a bimbo for a running mate (Palin). Yet, even with those disadvantages going into election night, McCain made it fairly close.
This time the circumstances are a bit different. Obama was a blank slate in 2008, but now he has a record for folks to see–a failed record that is. The economy isn’t really any better now than 4 years ago, so why should the average American think it will be any different 4 years from now?? Romney is far from a perfect candidate, but he at least offers us some hope that things will change for the better.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:23 pm
mike, try less opinion and more facts.
HOW did Obama win – not from a partisan point of view, but using an open mind.
ODD OWL
October 16th, 2012
11:25 pm
Mirttens Romney tried to bully Candy Crawley, but she shot him down and shut him up… When the debate was over, Romney ran off that stage like a scowled dog…
mike
October 16th, 2012
11:25 pm
Non-partisan is not me. “Growing (sic) bulldog” has nothing to do with women. They love him!
How much have you had to drink?
You’re going to lose! Own it! Accept it!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:26 pm
“You are a fool if you think that Romney did not lie.”
Feel free to point out one, Politico.
The oil drilling leases discussion on Federal lands has already been given to Romney as being correct. Obama was either incorrect, or lied about them.
mike
October 16th, 2012
11:27 pm
Bruno: that’s a wonderful fantasy! Hang onto it. It will serve you well in the days after the election.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:28 pm
“When the debate was over, Romney ran off that stage like a scowled dog…”
Actually, he hung around for pictures and autographs, ODD. What coverage were you watching?
Dusty
October 16th, 2012
11:28 pm
Mark V
I have seen high school debates that were better organized than this debate. Nobody scored well in this one because there was a feeling of poor timing, evasion, omissions, lack of direction, a “picked’ audience, and a partial moderator.
Maybe I like Romney because I like his plans but the president showed no class whatsoever I like a president who sets a good example no matter the stress.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:29 pm
“Non-partisan is not me.”
Admitting you’re an unthinking myrmidon is the surest way to have your comments ignored, mikey.
mike
October 16th, 2012
11:29 pm
OK, Tiberius. Romney won. Feel better now? Now that we’ve got that out of the way, maybe we can move on.
adam smith's invisible hand
October 16th, 2012
11:32 pm
Romney looked beat down and like he could have used a good cup of coffee. Oh wait, he can’t have coffee. Maybe an ice cold beer would help him chill after the loss. What? He can’t have one of those either? Can he at least go to the comforting, loving arms of one of his wives? No longer legal? That’s too bad.
Bruno
October 16th, 2012
11:32 pm
Bruno: that’s a wonderful fantasy! Hang onto it. It will serve you well in the days after the election.
Let me let you in on a little secret, mike. Who wins the election matters little to me, since I am secure in my career and will do well no matter what. I’m more concerned with the folks who are hurting right now. But, instead of throwing them more breadcrumbs, I’d like to see them get well-paying jobs, which isn’t going to happen under Obama.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:33 pm
mike, I stated in my first comment that I thought it was a draw.
I felt Romney will likely win on facts and the truth, and Obama scored points for not being comatose this time around.
Both bases will be satisfied after tonight, but the fact checkers are going to have a field day on both, but especially Obama.
And I don’t think his aggressiveness will play well with women voters.
mike
October 16th, 2012
11:33 pm
“Admitting you’re an unthinking myrmidon is the surest way to have your comments ignored, mikey”
Tiberius, that post certainly is in keeping with your empirical moniker.
It’s obvious that this blog has devolved into nonsensical arguments. Hence, I’m out of here.
Please resume dancing around in a circle.
Bruno
October 16th, 2012
11:36 pm
It’s obvious that this blog has devolved into nonsensical arguments.
Pretty funny talk coming from someone who spoke with the intellect of an eighth-grader all night. Typical Obama voter.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:36 pm
More nonsense from adam smith.
Is it possible for you libs on this blog to put together two cogent thoughts on tonight’s debate?
Thus far, it’s been exceedingly lame.
Hillbilly D
October 16th, 2012
11:37 pm
The Evil Empire falls 2-1 to go down 3 games to none. All is right with the world.
Dusty
October 16th, 2012
11:38 pm
Politico,
I watched the same debate you did so you don’t have to try and bully people around.
Romney was the informed gentleman and Obama was the wandering minstrel.
Do tell me that the past four years were very good. I enjoy jokes.
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:38 pm
Tiberius
Did I say Obama didn’t lie?
Damn dude, wake the f up and smell the coffee
I didn’t exonerate either one
That is your problem is you are caught up in a love affair with one of them and think they were nothing but honest
Bruno
October 16th, 2012
11:38 pm
The Evil Empire falls 2-1 to go down 3 games to none. All is right with the world.
Easy money on the Tigers tonight, although I got a little nervous with Ibanez at bat with 2 guys on in the bottom of the ninth. The “Under” was a pretty safe bet tonight as well.
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:39 pm
Dusty
Did Romney tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Yes or no?
No qualifiers
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:40 pm
Bruno
Thanks for the score
Yankees go down
great
Mark
October 16th, 2012
11:40 pm
President Obama won the debate hands down! good night all!
Bruno
October 16th, 2012
11:42 pm
HD–Since you’re still around, thought you might enjoy this deep cut from Steve Winwood. “Dirty City”. Some killer guitar riffs, real spacey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9t7pcF8rJQ
Mark
October 16th, 2012
11:43 pm
td
October 16th, 2012
11:21 pm
I just watched a focus group of swing state voters and of the 10 that voted for Obama in 08, 5 are now going to vote for Romney (one said she was going to stay at home but now she will vote for Romney). This is all I need to know about this debate.
td you are just one sore ass loser! romney got his ass handed to him tonight and you cannot stand it; therefore, once again you retort to some bogus ass swing states polls that you made up.
Bruno
October 16th, 2012
11:44 pm
Pretty funny to see the blind Obama followers declaring him the winner. It was a close debate, with Romney possibly squeaking out a small win. However, a small win for Romney is actually a huge win, given the low expectations placed upon him by friend and foe alike going into the debates.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 16th, 2012
11:46 pm
“Did I say Obama didn’t lie?
Damn dude, wake the f up and smell the coffee
I didn’t exonerate either one”
Politico, I challenged you to submit a lie that you believe that Romney made, as you claim both lied. Two of Obama’s lies have been exposed as such, but I have yet to hear one from the other side as being something more than a different opinion, not a lie.
Grow up, and more importantly, man up.
Politico
October 16th, 2012
11:48 pm
Tiberius
You couldn’t fight your way out of bed. So you are the last person that should be telling anyone to man up
just saying
Gravy Train
October 16th, 2012
11:48 pm
Tough on China? How? By investing billions in them? The only people Willard are tough on are old men, Big Bird, women and dogs. LOL You idiots let the plutocrats stick you with this magic underwear salesmen. Where can one find a “binder full of women.” The only thing Obama has to do to make Willard look bad is to sit back and watch him eat his own foot on international television. Kiss that “surge in the polls” good bye, you spineless lap dogs.