What matters today and tomorrow from yesterday’s debate
A few more thoughts from last night’s debate between Vice President Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan before we move on:
1. This was a trial run for the second presidential debate, especially in light of President Obama’s comment this week that he was “too polite” the first time around. I don’t think Obama will follow Biden’s lead exactly — in fact, I assume part of the strategy was for Biden to be so over the top with his laughs, smirks and interruptions that Obama can be fairly rude toward Mitt Romney next week but look gentlemanly by comparison. If nothing else, the media’s panning of Biden’s demeanor will surely dissuade Obama from going too far in that direction.
2. That said, Obama almost certainly will pick up where Biden left off — and from his own recent stump speeches — in branding Romney as dishonest. I noted this last night, but a clear part of Biden’s plan was to call Ryan’s credibility into question with labels such as “malarkey” and “incredible.” The laughs were surely part of that, too: This guy’s lying so much I’m ROTFL! The problem is that Biden’s subsequent “arguments” about Ryan’s accuracy rarely amounted to more than “that’s wrong!” And he told a number of whoppers himself. To name a few:
- saying there had been no requests for additional security in Benghazi, despite testimony to the contrary on Capitol Hill this week;
- saying he voted against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, when in fact he voted to authorize both;
- saying Obamacare does not force Catholic institutions to subsidize contraceptives and abortifacients against their religious convictions, which is patently false — or else we’d never heard about the “war on women” when those institutions and the GOP objected to the coercion;
- saying Sarah Palin talked about “death panels” during the 2008 vice presidential debate, when quite obviously that phrase wasn’t coined until months later when Obamacare was proposed.
Some of that’s fluff — in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t really matter when Palin started talking about death panels — but much of it gets to substance. And for all the talk from the left about Biden’s supposed superiority on substance, I have to ask: When was that? He was wrong about Libya (as noted above); wrong about the tax cuts being scheduled to expire for “millionaires and billionaires” (they’re scheduled to expire for everyone, and there is no tax bracket solely for “millionaires” or “billionaires”); wrong about Obamacare’s effects on health-care providers; wrong about how Ryan’s proposed premium support model for Medicare would work and whether it is a bipartisan idea.
3. He was spot-on correct, however, in his recitation of Democratic caricatures and talking points. But none of that was new. Nor was it likely to resonate beyond the Democratic base — which, as with the Democratic National Convention, was the entire intended audience. We’ll see if, as with the DNC, that’s reflected in the momentum of the race. As Mary Matalin said on CNN last night, when you’re still having to rally your base this close to the election, you’re not in good shape.
4. I noted on Twitter last night that Ryan was doing a better job of bringing the discussion back to Romney than Biden was to Obama. Now someone has done the math: Ryan made 26 references to Romney, Biden just one to Obama. It’s as if the Obama campaign was trying to make up lost ground in the race by making the public forget Obama’s the one running for president …
5. Finally, in case you never thought you could laugh like Biden, Current TV (that’s Al Gore’s network) analyst David Shuster said the debate had made Biden “the frontrunner for 2016.”
If true, Republicans surely think that was the very best news of the day.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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148 comments Add your comment
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
2:53 pm
Funny that the math whiz Ryan can’t enlighten us on how his numbers will work out.
~ You people need to trust us?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
2:53 pm
“He also failed on multiple occasions to provide a simple, clear cut answer as to how he is going to cut revenues while increasing spending without contributing to the national debt.”
Who writes this stuff for you, Gravy?
They are not proposing to cut revenues, but rather tax rates. At the same time, they are going to offset those reduced rates with less deductions and loopholes, thereby maintaining current revenue levels. In fact, they expect increased revenues due to a better economy through their 5-point plan. And they are NOT proposing to increase overall spending, but cut it.
Your entire premise is completely and totally false.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 12th, 2012
2:53 pm
Tiberius, yes, more malarky from Biden on the Stimulus fund request. I have said before, it is like a frat party where some drunk decides to open the tap on the keg and leave it on. You move to turn it off and he objects and is much bigger than you. You have a choice, whip his butt and turn it off ,or just put your mug underneath and get some before it hits the ground.
Ryan was just filling his cup before it all was wasted.
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
2:58 pm
Right, Tibi. They are going to make up the difference by eliminating the only breaks middle class people get. So thank you for illustrating the point that Boy Blunder and Willard want to cut plutocrat’s taxes while raising taxes on the middle class. Which deductions? You guys are all smoke and mirrors.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 12th, 2012
2:58 pm
Finn – Earlier this morning you said you would like a Biden/Warren ticket in 2016? Wouldn’t a Biden/Pelosi be better for your party. One laughs all the time and the other forces a smile when she speaks!
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
2:59 pm
Rafe. Thank you for confirming your idiocy here for us today.
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
3:02 pm
Well one thing is for certain. If Lyin’ Ryan and Bachmann and Palin are the future of the GOP, you guys better get used to losing. LOL
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
3:02 pm
“They are going to make up the difference by eliminating the only breaks middle class people get.”
Really, Gravy? Name the ones they have specified to be eliminated.
I’m waiting.
Streetracer
October 12th, 2012
3:02 pm
Rafe:
That is a great anaolgy, but I’m the kind of guy who doesn’t like to waste anything, especially beer, so I would probably turn it off.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
3:04 pm
Tom, no, Nancy is a worker bee so she belongs in the House. Warren has bigger ideas than Nancy Pants.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
3:06 pm
Name the ones they have specified to be eliminated. I’m waiting.
As are the rest of us Americans.
But they can’t tell us cause they don’t have the guts to speak the truth. It’s gonna be tax breaks for the wealthy and austerity for the rest of us.
Tighten your belts, America, the fat cats gotta eat!
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
3:09 pm
What an astute answer for such a big brain, Tibi. Fire up the smoke machine!
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 12th, 2012
3:09 pm
Gravy
You can’t get a response from a poster on your incessant “magic underwear” soliloquy. No one paying any attention to you, poor fellow! So, you have resorted to personal attacks? Why don’t you go back to looking over that Book of Mormon, and post some more inane observations that you come across, you bigot.
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
3:12 pm
People notice that a cult priest is running for president. Just because you want to ignore it, doesn’t mean the rest of us will. You’ll see in November. As for you, go read a book, any one at all. Moron.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
3:14 pm
“But they can’t tell us cause they don’t have the guts to speak the truth. It’s gonna be tax breaks for the wealthy and austerity for the rest of us.”
Really, Finn? And what are the lottery numbers for this weekend, since you know everything with such certainty?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
3:15 pm
“What an astute answer for such a big brain”
So I guess this is your version of, “I’ve got nothing”.
Got it, Gravy.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 12th, 2012
3:19 pm
Gravy
I am currently reading one about the Popular Front’s activities in Spain during the Spanish revolution, just prior to WWII. You and Cheesy should both Google the Popular Front movement, you both would make excellent recruits.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
3:34 pm
Why don’t you go back to looking over that Book of Mormon, and post some more inane observations that you come across, you bigot.
Here is one.
The Book of Mormon tells of the resurrected Jesus Christ and His visit to His faithful followers in ancient America. After His visits to His disciples in the Old World, He descended out of heaven and appeared to His followers in ancient America.
The Book of Mormon describes how, during His visit, Jesus Christ healed their sick, taught them His gospel, blessed their children, and called twelve disciples to organize His Church in the Americas (3 Nephi 11:18; 3 Nephi 12:1-2).
Who would have thought Jesus hung out with the Indians.
Amazing.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
3:38 pm
But they can’t tell us cause they don’t have the guts to speak the truth. It’s gonna be tax breaks for the wealthy and austerity for the rest of us
Yup. All with a big smile.
Its back to trickle down economics.
If nothing actually trickles. Hey its not their fault. Eat some cake.
Besides Romney needs that car elevator. How else is he supposed to get all his cars out of the big garage?
The sad part is these idiots here actually think Romney cares about them.
That guy in the 47 percent speech he gave to the ultra wealthy must have been an alien.
jeffrey
October 12th, 2012
3:48 pm
Wow if this costs Ryan his seat in the house even an ayn rander would feel sorry for him I like Joe biden he reminds me of my nice uncles.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
4:00 pm
“The sad part is these idiots here actually think Romney cares about them.”
I don’t want my President caring about me, and I certainly don’t want him caring for me, as this one tries to do.
I want him caring about respecting the Constitution and caring about the economy and our national security.
That’s it; that’s all.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
4:01 pm
“I like Joe biden he reminds me of my nice uncles.”
Insanity runs in your family, jeffrey?
Scott Fresno
October 12th, 2012
4:03 pm
I can’t blame Biden, I was laughing at Ryan, too.
Not true. Not one little bit. WRONG
October 12th, 2012
4:05 pm
Tiberius
Is there a need for insults? On one hand, you seem to want to just discuss just the facts. On the other, you are the biggest baby on here.
Keep it real and keep it classy. Let the others be the buffoons.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
4:07 pm
Not True, if you don’t like what I post, don’t read it.
Your opinion of my remarks means nothing to me. Got it?
Del
October 12th, 2012
4:18 pm
Funny that old Joe the buffoon brags about offing OBL when he advised against the raid.
MarkV
October 12th, 2012
4:19 pm
There is no mystery about why Ryan refuses to specify the loopholes and deductions, that would be cut by Romney/Ryan to make their tax plan revenue neutral – because it would be a political suicide. This way he can deceive people into believing that it is possible to achieve that neutrality without cutting deductions the middle class people use and thus increase their taxes. One chance Biden missed was to point out more clearly the dishonesty of the Romney/Ryan argument that independent studies have shown their tax plan feasible. No study can show now such result without making assumptions about the loopholes/deductions affected, and Ryan wants those cuts to be determined only later by Congress. It is both outrageous and hilarious for him to say that the revenue-neutrality of their proposal is “mathematically possible.”
Not true. Not one little bit. WRONG
October 12th, 2012
4:22 pm
Tiberius
You comment when you wish to comment and I will do the same.
“Got it?”
Your bully and baby games will not work here. It might impress others, but not me. GOT IT?
MarkV
October 12th, 2012
4:29 pm
One of the more dishonest of Ryan’s statements – although there is a substantial competition- were his attacks on the lack of security in the consulate in Libya, when he voted in 2009 for an amendment to reduce funding for Diplomatic and Consular Programs.
JDW
October 12th, 2012
4:34 pm
@Tiberius…”And what are the lottery numbers for this weekend, since you know everything with such certainty?”
Thing is it’s just not that hard…If you are giving in tax cuts more than you would get if cut 100% of deductions/tax expenditiures it’s real simple math.
“Romney’s plan couldn’t work because his tax rate cuts would provide $86 billion more in tax relief to people making over $200,000 than Romney could recoup by eliminating tax expenditures for that group.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-12/the-final-word-on-mitt-romney-s-tax-plan.html
Fact is Romney is
A) Lying
B) Telling stories
C) Can’t add
D) Blowing smoke
Take your pick
JDW
October 12th, 2012
4:38 pm
@Tiberius….”They are not proposing to cut revenues, but rather tax rates. ”
O’Dear drinking already I see…OK Math 101 just for you….
If have an effective tax rate of 16% that raises $2.5 Trillion in revenue and you cut that rate by 20% it REDUCES revenue by $500 billion a year.
It’s just math
Road Scholar
October 12th, 2012
4:56 pm
“What matters today and tomorrow from yesterday’s debate?”
Tech and UGA won’t lose a football game! And the Braves won’t lose either!
100 more days
October 12th, 2012
5:15 pm
There seems to be a lot of DemocRATs here today touting Joe the Clown. If his actions are anything
like him, or the DemcRatic party.
Did anyone notice how his antics follow the same stupid actions by those that sit at the feet of their comrade Jay?
If you want a potential POTUS that acts like a little kid at the dinner table, then I am glad I am not a DEMOCRAT
GO ROMNEY/RYAN, beat the Socialist participants, so we can get our country back in the right direction
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 12th, 2012
5:16 pm
Barry won an election on “hope and change”, how specific is that? What is Barry’s plan for the next four years? Still waiting after two debates, no answer other than raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires.
Obama is over
October 12th, 2012
5:18 pm
Biden failed to present any ideas on what an Obama/Biden second term would do about entitlement reform, tax reform, and job creation other than raise taxes. The Obama campaign is centered around catch phrases and personal attacks because they have been in office too long to continue to blame Bush, can’t defend their mediocre record, and have no plans for the future. Obama can become “more agressive” in the next debate by interupting Romney with snarky comments, but Americans want answers to the problems facing the country right now, not MSNBC style grand standing. One of Churchill’s fundamental political tenets was to not waste time disparaging your enemies. The Obama campaign’s emphasis on branding Romney a liar is not only an example of how morally bankrupt these people are, it is proof that they are completely devoid of any new ideas on how to solve the problems of the country.
Dusty
October 12th, 2012
5:26 pm
Well, if you want to know who won the debate just look at this blog. Liberals here are pouring their extra strength propaganda flame throwers all over the place. Biden was king of clown in the debate and liberals here are trying to make him king of the hill.
Won’t work.
Americans know the difference between sincerity and show business and Biden put on a show. I’m sorry he did. I once thought of him as a genial, pleasant and sincere man. But not any more. He has been thoroughly liberalized and obviously convinced that such tactics are necessary. He replaced class with crass.
It isn’t a pretty sight to see.
.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 12th, 2012
5:30 pm
The Carney Barker today said that what Biden meant when he said that “we had no request for more security”, is that the White House did not know the State Dept had turned down the repeated requests for more security. So in other words, we are not responsible for the State Dept decisions.
However, we killed Osama. Get the irony. They claim they did all the hard work of their employees if it turns out good, and if not, well that is not our purview. Children one and all, in Obamatown.
Not true. Not one little bit. WRONG
October 12th, 2012
5:35 pm
Dusty
Romney closing, but except for Rasmussen, you might want to check the Electoral College projections.
Rasmussen could be right, but outside of him, it is Obama either close or with a decent margin.
But hang in there.
Not true. Not one little bit. WRONG
October 12th, 2012
5:40 pm
Frank Luntz who is a regular on Fox News was on Bill Maher last week.
Said even with Romney’s dominating performance in the 1st debate, Obama is still going to win.
Streetracer
October 12th, 2012
5:46 pm
Mark V:
Vote to cut security? Why does Jarrett have 24/7 Secret Severce protection when a consulate is protected by local contractors armed with walkie-talkies? Seems to me that is a misuse of government money.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
5:47 pm
JDW, if you can’t argue a point without telling the whole story, don’t argue it it all.
it just points out your lack of intelligence, or honesty, or both.
MarkV
October 12th, 2012
5:59 pm
Dusty @5:26 pm
“Americans know the difference between sincerity and show business and Biden put on a show. “
Dusty,
With all due respect, is the above the depth of your evaluation of the debate? Did Biden and Ryan just performed a show, and not debated some important election issues? Have you nothing to say about those?
Streetracer
October 12th, 2012
6:00 pm
Rafe @ 5:30
That is right. They sound like a drunk in a small town beer joint; willing to fight anyone that hasn’t shown up yet
Not true. Not one little bit. WRONG
October 12th, 2012
6:03 pm
MarkV
Dusty seems to have put on her own show. No, she doesn’t have anything of substance to say.
Michael H. Smith
October 12th, 2012
7:02 pm
Can we get a conservative partisan hack as a moderator of the next debate?
Okay, let’s move on Martha!
Michael H. Smith
October 12th, 2012
7:09 pm
Dusty @5:26 pm
“Americans know the difference between sincerity and show business and Biden put on a show. “
Spot on Dusty and the rest of us on this blog know who should first elevate their intelligence and discourse before attempting to debate.
JDW
October 12th, 2012
10:58 pm
@Tiberius…”the whole story”
You mean the part about how one pays for reducing tax revenues by $500 billion a year I suppose…
BTW you are right…not telling that story shows a lack of intelligence and honesty.
Since you are a “bud” of Mittens how about you clue him in.
JKL2
October 13th, 2012
9:04 am
cheesy- Under Bush – 7 different attacks took place where people died.
How many of those did he try to cover up?
obama is a liar (no wonder you love him so much)