What matters today and tomorrow from yesterday’s debate
A few more thoughts from last night’s debate between Vice President Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan before we move on:
1. This was a trial run for the second presidential debate, especially in light of President Obama’s comment this week that he was “too polite” the first time around. I don’t think Obama will follow Biden’s lead exactly — in fact, I assume part of the strategy was for Biden to be so over the top with his laughs, smirks and interruptions that Obama can be fairly rude toward Mitt Romney next week but look gentlemanly by comparison. If nothing else, the media’s panning of Biden’s demeanor will surely dissuade Obama from going too far in that direction.
2. That said, Obama almost certainly will pick up where Biden left off — and from his own recent stump speeches — in branding Romney as dishonest. I noted this last night, but a clear part of Biden’s plan was to call Ryan’s credibility into question with labels such as “malarkey” and “incredible.” The laughs were surely part of that, too: This guy’s lying so much I’m ROTFL! The problem is that Biden’s subsequent “arguments” about Ryan’s accuracy rarely amounted to more than “that’s wrong!” And he told a number of whoppers himself. To name a few:
- saying there had been no requests for additional security in Benghazi, despite testimony to the contrary on Capitol Hill this week;
- saying he voted against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, when in fact he voted to authorize both;
- saying Obamacare does not force Catholic institutions to subsidize contraceptives and abortifacients against their religious convictions, which is patently false — or else we’d never heard about the “war on women” when those institutions and the GOP objected to the coercion;
- saying Sarah Palin talked about “death panels” during the 2008 vice presidential debate, when quite obviously that phrase wasn’t coined until months later when Obamacare was proposed.
Some of that’s fluff — in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t really matter when Palin started talking about death panels — but much of it gets to substance. And for all the talk from the left about Biden’s supposed superiority on substance, I have to ask: When was that? He was wrong about Libya (as noted above); wrong about the tax cuts being scheduled to expire for “millionaires and billionaires” (they’re scheduled to expire for everyone, and there is no tax bracket solely for “millionaires” or “billionaires”); wrong about Obamacare’s effects on health-care providers; wrong about how Ryan’s proposed premium support model for Medicare would work and whether it is a bipartisan idea.
3. He was spot-on correct, however, in his recitation of Democratic caricatures and talking points. But none of that was new. Nor was it likely to resonate beyond the Democratic base — which, as with the Democratic National Convention, was the entire intended audience. We’ll see if, as with the DNC, that’s reflected in the momentum of the race. As Mary Matalin said on CNN last night, when you’re still having to rally your base this close to the election, you’re not in good shape.
4. I noted on Twitter last night that Ryan was doing a better job of bringing the discussion back to Romney than Biden was to Obama. Now someone has done the math: Ryan made 26 references to Romney, Biden just one to Obama. It’s as if the Obama campaign was trying to make up lost ground in the race by making the public forget Obama’s the one running for president …
5. Finally, in case you never thought you could laugh like Biden, Current TV (that’s Al Gore’s network) analyst David Shuster said the debate had made Biden “the frontrunner for 2016.”
If true, Republicans surely think that was the very best news of the day.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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148 comments Add your comment
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
1:16 pm
Cheesy,
I watched the hearings live, did you?
No I have a job.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
1:17 pm
“No abortion ever per Ryan.”
Jaynie, in case you missed it, this will be the ROMNEY / Ryan administration, and as President, Mitt Romney believes in exceptions to abortion. Limited ones, but exceptions nevertheless.
Del
October 12th, 2012
1:18 pm
“Because of Republican budget cuts.”
One trick pony. If you had watched the hearings you would know budget cuts had nothing to do with it. Well maybe you would know.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
1:19 pm
Mitt Romney believes in exceptions to abortion. Limited ones, but exceptions nevertheless.
He is just saying that now. When he gets in office that will get etch a sketched right out.
Abortion will become illegal again under Romney.
There can be no doubt.
Del
October 12th, 2012
1:23 pm
Cheesy,
A sitting president doesn’t have the power to make abortions illegal.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
1:27 pm
A sitting president doesn’t have the power to make abortions illegal.
Yes he does. He can appoint SC judges to do just that
And Romney will have that chance.
And he will do it.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
1:30 pm
“There’s no legislation with regards to abortion that I’m familiar with that would become part of my agenda,” Romney said.
During the primaries, Romney promised to end federal funding of Planned Parenthood and appoint Supreme Court justices who would overturn the Roe vs. Wade ruling that legalized abortion.
Which one is it ? Who the he77 knows ?
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
1:34 pm
Romney got a slapdown from the mother of Glen Doherty, a former Navy SEAL who was killed last month in the attack on the U.S. consulate in Libya.
At several campaign stops, Romney had mentioned meeting Doherty before he was killed. But Barbara Doherty asked Romney to stop.
“I don’t trust Romney,” she told a Boston TV station. “He shouldn’t make my son’s death part of his political agenda. It’s wrong to use these brave young men, who wanted freedom for all, to degrade Obama.”
A short time later, Romney agreed to stop talking about Doherty in his stump speech.
commoncents
October 12th, 2012
1:35 pm
Cheesy: “Yes he does. He can appoint SC judges to do just that. And Romney will have that chance. And he will do it.”
And Obama would appoint more liberal judges so he can freely mandate any decision he wants, and remove any sort of conservative dissent to his liberal/socialist policies.
*And pregnancy due to rape is a tragic event. But it is outnumbered by the women he choose to have sex, get pregnant and want to murder their unborn child because said infant would cramp their lifestyle.
commoncents
October 12th, 2012
1:36 pm
*** “he” should say “who”
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 12th, 2012
1:40 pm
Ryan fanned on so many hanging curves last night, I guess there were so many he couldn’t swing that many times.
When faced with the lunatic Biden screaming that Ryan cut aid to the Embassies by $300 million, he should have said, dang right Joe, they spent the money the Senate restored buying Chevy Volts for one of the Embassies in Europe. When the battery dies on the street, what are they to do, run for their life. Why did they need more money, when they wasted what we gave them.
When Biden tossed out the old 5T fable, Ryan tried to dispute it with facts, rather than saying that is not our plan, as Romney did. Biden was frothing at the mouth and twitching so, he couldn’t absorb what Ryan was saying, the easiest thing to say is you are lying, we never proposed a 5T tax cut.
Biden at one point said they put the 715 Billion back in Medicare to extend its life. He should have said, then where did you get the 715 Billion to pay for Obamacare?
When Biden tossed out the old where would folks be now if Soc Sec money had been put into private accounts invested in the market. He was really frothing and twitching over this one. The simple answer would be “they are doing great” as the market has pretty much recovered, so what is your point, Joe.
Ryan did not challenge his stupid account of why they kept blaming the Video in the Libya attack for two weeks. He didn’t ask Joe who told Susan Rice to lie, 5 days later.
Their was obviously just not enough time for Ryan to straighten out all the lies that crazy Joe foisted on the audience.
Biden has some serious self control issues and possibly some self esteem issues, and the thoughts of his finger on the button as President, is frightening.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
1:41 pm
“He is just saying that now. When he gets in office that will get etch a sketched right out.”
Really? Cite, perhaps?
“Abortion will become illegal again under Romney. There can be no doubt.”
And what are this weekend’s lottery numbers, Cheesy? Since you can predict the future with such clarity and all . . .
Dusty
October 12th, 2012
1:41 pm
If you mix Gravy Train with Cheesy Grits, would you have a different dish?
No, because both use the same DNC material and it is all outdated. l.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
1:43 pm
“A short time later, Romney agreed to stop talking about Doherty in his stump speech.”
Let’s see . . Romney agrees to stop doing something when asked, and Obama refuses to take down the Big Bird ad when asked.
And who’s more likely to get along with those who have a disagreement with them?
dagnabit
October 12th, 2012
1:44 pm
I’m interested if Romney comes out with his methedrine fueled rant in the second debate. How will Obama handle the drug crazed Romney this time.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
1:44 pm
“During the primaries, Romney promised to end federal funding of Planned Parenthood”
True, but ending funding doesn’t end the right to an abortion.
“and appoint Supreme Court justices who would overturn the Roe vs. Wade ruling that legalized abortion.”
Not true. Not one little bit.
Dusty
October 12th, 2012
1:53 pm
dagnabit,
Drug crazed Romney?
You win, Dag. You have posted the biggest lie of the day.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
1:54 pm
Not true. Not one little bit.
Actually it is. Keep drinking that Kool Aid
Cutter and Richards pointed out that Romney has recently said he would be “delighted” to sign a bill banning abortions, called Roe v. Wade one of the “darkest” moments in Supreme Court history, and even penned an op-ed in June 2011 pushing specific legislation on abortion.
Streetracer
October 12th, 2012
1:58 pm
…Cheezy.. whatever:
First @ 11:54 Do you really think that the government should be making decisions about peoples lives? If so, you need immediate help.
Second, there is no budget, so spending is whatever the Executive Branch wants. Related, how many Lybian security guards could have been on site for the cost of Jarrett’s 24/7 Secert Service detail?
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
1:58 pm
And what are this weekend’s lottery numbers, Cheesy? Since you can predict the future with such clarity and all . . .
If you tell me what they are I can tell you them back.
Romney has made it quite clear he will end abortion rights.
He is just denying it now to try and win the election.
Pure and simple.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
1:59 pm
Do you really think that the government should be making decisions about peoples lives?
No i dont.
But Romney feels he knows best when it comes to women’s reproductive choices.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
1:59 pm
“Cutter and Richards pointed out . . . ”
That would be the Stephanie Cutter who has falsely accused Romney of felonies and of causing the death of a man’s wife? That Stephanie Cutter? The one who just the other day claimed that the polls hadn’t moved since the 1st Presidential debate? That Stephanie Cutter?
Talk about drinking the Kool-Aid, Cheesy . . . .
Not true. Not one little bit. WRONG
October 12th, 2012
2:00 pm
Source: South Carolina 2012 GOP debate hosted by CNN’s John King , Jan 19, 2012
I had no litmus test for appointing judges, but I’m pro-life
GINGRICH: Governor Romney did appoint pro-abortion judges.
ROMNEY: I appointed probably 50 or 60 judges–at the trial court level, mostly, the great majority. These were former prosecutors; 80% of them former prosecutors. We don’t have a litmus test for appointing judges–asking them if they’re pro-life or not pro-life. These were people going after crimes and the like. I am pro-life. And the Massachusetts Citizens for Life and several other family-oriented groups wrote a letter two weeks ago and said they’d watched my record, that I was an avidly pro-life governor. I am a pro-life governor; I am a pro-life individual. Is there any possibility that I’ve ever made a mistake in that regard, I didn’t see something that I should have seen? Possibly. But you can count on me, as president, to pursue a policy that protects the life of unborn, whether here in this country or overseas. And I’ll reverse the policies of this president.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
2:01 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqD1fjSp4Sc
Here is a video of him saying just that.
That he would overturn Rowe v Wade with his SC nominees.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
2:01 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAuwuLse1Gg&feature=endscreen&NR=1
And another.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
2:03 pm
“Romney has made it quite clear he will end abortion rights.”
No, he hasn’t. His position is that abortion is a state issue, one in which I happen to agree from a Constitutional standpoint. He also personally agrees to limited exceptions, which effectively neuters your argument regarding “ending” abortion rights.
You are entitled to your own opinion, Cheesy, no matter how wrongly you have come up with it, but not your own facts.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
2:03 pm
“and appoint Supreme Court justices who would overturn the Roe vs. Wade ruling that legalized abortion.”
Not true. Not one little bit.
Will you admit you were wrong ?
I highly doubt it.
Not true. Not one little bit. WRONG
October 12th, 2012
2:07 pm
Two-step process: overturn Roe; then change hearts & minds
Q: Your aides say you see ending abortion as a two-step process: rolling back Roe v. Wade, which would leave it legal in some states; and then a constitutional amendment to ban it nationwide. If abortion is murder, how can you live with it being legal in some states?
A: I’d love to have an America that didn’t have abortion. But that’s not what the American people [want] right now. And so I’d like to see Roe v. Wade overturned and allow the states to put in place pro-life legislation. I recognize that for many people, that is considered an act of murder, to have an abortion. It is without question the taking of a human life. And I believe that a civilized society must respect the sanctity of the human life. But we have two lives involved here–a mom, an unborn child. We have to have concern for both lives & show the expression of our compassion & our consideration and work to change hearts & minds, and that’s the way in my view we’ll ultimately have a society without abortion.
Source: 2007 GOP debate at UNH, sponsored by Fox News , Sep 5, 2007
Not true. Not one little bit. WRONG
October 12th, 2012
2:08 pm
Absolute good day for America when Roe v. Wade is repealed
Q: Would the day that Roe v. Wade is repealed be a good day for America?
ROMNEY: Absolutely.
BROWNBACK: It would be a glorious day of human liberty and freedom.
GILMORE: Yes, it was wrongly decided.
HUCKABEE: Most certainly.
HUNTER: Yes.
THOMPSON: Yes.
McCAIN: A repeal.
GIULIANI: It would be OK to repeal.
TANCREDO: After 40 million dead because we have aborted them in this country, that would be the greatest day in this country’s history when that, in fact, is overturned.
Source: 2007 GOP primary debate, at Reagan library, hosted by MSNBC , May 3, 2007
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
2:09 pm
You are entitled to your own opinion, Cheesy, no matter how wrongly you have come up with it, but not your own facts.
Jesus some people just cant see the forest for the tress.
You show them something with the man saying it and they will still deny it.
No help for people this lost.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
2:09 pm
Cheesy, your conclusion is wrong. I cannot help it if you don’t put everything into your post to make it clear.
I have clarified Romney’s position, and neutered yours.
Not true. Not one little bit. WRONG
October 12th, 2012
2:11 pm
Said in 1994: “I had a dear, close family relative that was very close to me who passed away from an illegal abortion. We will not force our beliefs on others. And you will not see me wavering on that.”
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 12th, 2012
2:19 pm
Cheesy
Romney dropped the ad at the mother’s request. When does this mother get answers to her questions, rather than the “baloney” she describes getting from the Obama regime.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/11/mother-of-slain-official-demands-answers-from-obama-administration/
MarkV
October 12th, 2012
2:20 pm
Here is another Biden’s “whopper,” according to Kyle, which is not what he tries to make it by excising part of the statement.
“saying he voted against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, when in fact he voted to authorize both;”
And here are the actual Biden’s words:
“ It came from this man voting to put two wars in a credit card, to at the same time put a prescription drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion- dollar tax cut for a — very wealthy. I was there. I voted against him.”
Biden voted against the prescription drug benefit law, Ryan for. How does Kyle know what Biden had in mind when he said “I voted against him?”
RW-(the original)
October 12th, 2012
2:21 pm
Cutter and Richards pointed out…
Forget Kyle’s example up top. That’s you real “Chuckle-like-a-Biden” moment.
Halftrack
October 12th, 2012
2:25 pm
What kind of America do we want? One that is guided by laughs, grimaces and antics such as Biden demonstrated? Biden does not know what is in the Obummercare bill because he has not read it even tho it has been passed. The USA is on a fiscal cliff with all the tax increases that are about to start up in January and the automatic cuts to spending. Our security and military are also at risk, not to mention our safety. Last night Biden said that Iran did not have a bomb yet for the fissile material. All they need is a Jacka$$ with a suitcase or backpack to come through our open borders and blow up some stadium, town, or airport. Do you really think Iran is far off in obtaining a bomb? It is as close as the next backpack or suitcase that you see.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 12th, 2012
2:28 pm
Duplicity from the Obama regime, Biden bragging that he voted against Medicare Part D bill at one point, and bragging about all the benefits seniors are now getting from Obamacare, one of which was that they added money to close the donut hole in Part D.
You can’t make this stuff up, the current regime is like children, they will take any side of any issue in order to try to get one over or besmirch Romney. Like Obama says, if you have a bad record, make the people run from the other guy.
Rasheida
October 12th, 2012
2:28 pm
Most Americans, I believe, except for those on the hard left and hard right couldn’t care less about abortion.
A bigger issue is our proclivity for going to war, then bogging down year after year while the bills and bodies pile up. Not a Dem fan here but Biden seriously outmaneuvered Ryan on the Afghan War issue. Ryan almost sounded like he thought we should stay there forever, maybe even start some new wars…long as they were in the ‘national interest’. Probably not the pitch you want to make to undecided voters.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
2:29 pm
Thanks for proving my point and neutering Cheesy’s, Not true.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 12th, 2012
2:34 pm
Halftrack sounds like you don’t believe crazy uncle Joe that Iran doesn’t have a weapon to put it in. What the heck does this mean? Is he saying they do not have a delivery system? Nuclear waste in a coffee can is a weapon. Does he think N Korea can’t sell them some aluminum tubes? I was certainly confused by his illogical rant and not sure why Ryan didn’t call him out on it, other than there were just too many stupid things brought up by Biden to be addressed in two minutes.
Streetracer
October 12th, 2012
2:35 pm
Cheezy:
Go back to your 11:54 post. That is exactly what you said.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
2:38 pm
Bottom line, this debate did a few things:
It put an enormous amount of pressure on Obama to perform better than he did in the first debate. That being said, anything better than not looking as if he wishes he were anywhere else might just be enough for his fawning sycophants.
It stopped the hemorrhaging, but not the bleeding that the Obama campaign has been undergoing since the first debate. Anything worse than a grade-A performance by him, and the hemorrhaging renews.
Ryan can hold his own against a career pol on both foreign and economic issues.
Joe Biden is a classless jerk.
Pizzaman
October 12th, 2012
2:40 pm
I’ve already voted so none of this matters.
Vote Early, Vote Often. Ignore Republican voter ID, vote absentee!
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
2:40 pm
Kyle, what will matter tomorrow and on November 6th is that Boy Blunder got pantsed on national television. Nobody in their right mind would want a whiney, little lap dog in the Oval Office. He affirmed his support for vouchers, more war, and more tax breaks for his masters. He also failed on multiple occasions to provide a simple, clear cut answer as to how he is going to cut revenues while increasing spending without contributing to the national debt. Care to tackle that one Kyle? So far Willard and Lyin’ Ryan can only say “Trust us.”
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
2:41 pm
Col. Ralph Peters on Fox News regarding the recent attempt by Baghdad Jay to spin Biden’s gaff last night on the Benghazi consulate attack last month:
“Jay Carney has all the integrity of a telemarketer, but without the charm”.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
2:43 pm
“Duplicity from the Obama regime, Biden bragging that he voted against Medicare Part D bill at one point, and bragging about all the benefits seniors are now getting from Obamacare, one of which was that they added money to close the donut hole in Part D.”
Kinda puts Biden’s outrage about Ryan voting against the Stimulus, then writing letters on behalf of 2 little grants in a whole different light, doesn’t it Rafe?
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 12th, 2012
2:45 pm
Rasheida
Not a Dem fan here but Biden seriously outmaneuvered Ryan on the Afghan War issue.
Not sure about that, but Ryan did not do too well explaining himself on withdrawing the troops during fighting season. I guess he was interrupted or shouted down and didn’t get to finish. Biden was saying that it was better to get them out and let the Afghan forces fight the battles. Ryan was saying but we still have troops there. Biden would say, but not as many, which is good.
NO, it may be good for those coming home, but as Ryan pointed out we have less forces fighting the same number of Taliban. The dangers to those that are left are multiplied because they are undermanned. They can’t trust the Afghans and are left to fight, with depleted support. Either get them all out or leave troop strength up until winter, when the taliban withdraws. 500 fighting a thousand is better than leaving 200 fighting the same thousand.
Took too long to explain and Ryan was being interrupted incessantly by Biden and the moderator. I think some one said Biden interrupted 82 times, and the moderator 25 or so. Ryan had no chance to express any thought that took more than 45 seconds.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
2:47 pm
Cheesy, arguing with Tiberius is like arguing with a 2 year old. Just fughetaboutit.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
2:48 pm
“Ryan almost sounded like he thought we should stay there forever, maybe even start some new wars…long as they were in the ‘national interest’.”
And just what debate were you watching last night, Rasheida?
Since you missed it, Ryan stated at least twice that he and Romney agreed with the 2014 timetable. Pay better attention next time.
And since he as asked specifically by the moderator when boots on the ground would be necessary, he answered it. Would you have preferred he didn’t answer it at all, or said that they’d never put American boots on the ground no matter what the issue? And his threshold was “directly affect our national security”, not “interest”.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
2:50 pm
Ryan had no chance to express any thought that took more than 45 seconds.
But it usually took Ryan 2 or more minutes to enunciate those 45 seconds of thought?
Zombie boy from Wisconsin.