What matters today and tomorrow from yesterday’s debate

A few more thoughts from last night’s debate between Vice President Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan before we move on:

1. This was a trial run for the second presidential debate, especially in light of President Obama’s comment this week that he was “too polite” the first time around. I don’t think Obama will follow Biden’s lead exactly — in fact, I assume part of the strategy was for Biden to be so over the top with his laughs, smirks and interruptions that Obama can be fairly rude toward Mitt Romney next week but look gentlemanly by comparison. If nothing else, the media’s panning of Biden’s demeanor will surely dissuade Obama from going too far in that direction.

2. That said, Obama almost certainly will pick up where Biden left off — and from his own recent stump speeches — in branding Romney as dishonest. I noted this last night, but a clear part of Biden’s plan was to call Ryan’s credibility into question with labels such as “malarkey” and “incredible.” The laughs were surely part of that, too: This guy’s lying so much I’m ROTFL! The problem is that Biden’s subsequent “arguments” about Ryan’s accuracy rarely amounted to more than “that’s wrong!” And he told a number of whoppers himself. To name a few:

  • saying there had been no requests for additional security in Benghazi, despite testimony to the contrary on Capitol Hill this week;
  • saying he voted against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, when in fact he voted to authorize both;
  • saying Obamacare does not force Catholic institutions to subsidize contraceptives and abortifacients against their religious convictions, which is patently false — or else we’d never heard about the “war on women” when those institutions and the GOP objected to the coercion;
  • saying Sarah Palin talked about “death panels” during the 2008 vice presidential debate, when quite obviously that phrase wasn’t coined until months later when Obamacare was proposed.

Some of that’s fluff — in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t really matter when Palin started talking about death panels — but much of it gets to substance. And for all the talk from the left about Biden’s supposed superiority on substance, I have to ask: When was that? He was wrong about Libya (as noted above); wrong about the tax cuts being scheduled to expire for “millionaires and billionaires” (they’re scheduled to expire for everyone, and there is no tax bracket solely for “millionaires” or “billionaires”); wrong about Obamacare’s effects on health-care providers; wrong about how Ryan’s proposed premium support model for Medicare would work and whether it is a bipartisan idea.

3. He was spot-on correct, however, in his recitation of Democratic caricatures and talking points. But none of that was new. Nor was it likely to resonate beyond the Democratic base — which, as with the Democratic National Convention, was the entire intended audience. We’ll see if, as with the DNC, that’s reflected in the momentum of the race. As Mary Matalin said on CNN last night, when you’re still having to rally your base this close to the election, you’re not in good shape.

4. I noted on Twitter last night that Ryan was doing a better job of bringing the discussion back to Romney than Biden was to Obama. Now someone has done the math: Ryan made 26 references to Romney, Biden just one to Obama. It’s as if the Obama campaign was trying to make up lost ground in the race by making the public forget Obama’s the one running for president …

5. Finally, in case you never thought you could laugh like Biden, Current TV (that’s Al Gore’s network) analyst David Shuster said the debate had made Biden “the frontrunner for 2016.”

If true, Republicans surely think that was the very best news of the day.

– By Kyle Wingfield

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148 comments Add your comment

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

October 12th, 2012
11:36 am

fair and balanced

October 12th, 2012
11:48 am

Joe Biden put the 47% of the population dissed by Romney out on the table for all to see who was included and then took a jab at Romney’s low tax rate. Response from Ryan was the flippant “oh he misspoke like you often do.” Give me a break if that is the best Romney/Ryan can do with numerous similar comments throughout the campaign about the other guy giving away the “free stuff” and other comments about freeloaders.
Man up to the comment if that is your belief and let us judge you by it.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
11:54 am

It was a wipe out win for Biden.

My favorite was when Ryan criticized the stimulus then was forced to admit he had asked for stimulus funds.

WOW.

Alot of women after that debate have no doubt either that their reproductive decisions will not be made by them under Romney/Ryan

The Government will be making those decisions for them.

Hillbilly D

October 12th, 2012
11:59 am

What matters today and tomorrow from yesterday’s debate

Honestly, probably nothing. The campaign has been going on for 3 1/2 years. Hard to see how anybody’s mind isn’t made up by now.

JF McNamara

October 12th, 2012
12:00 pm

I thought you were going to say something to the effect of, Ryan and Romney don’t actually have a plan on fixing entitlements since they have no details on what they will cut. A plan without details is an idea. They need to step up and put together a real plan and say what they are going to do. They would demand the same of Obama.

On the other side, Biden ducked the question on how they would actually attack entitlements. Not cutting benefits is not a plan on something that we can already see becoming unsustainable.

Double that with both parties being non-committal on when they can get unemployment down, and no one really said anything. In a sense, neither party had a real answer on two of the top questions.

One in the hand in worth two in the bush, and Ryan didn’t show he actually had anything in the bush except ideas and promises. You’d need to be pretty specific to sway me back that way after what Bush did. All I’m seeing is them duck questions on the details.

Mr. Holmes

October 12th, 2012
12:00 pm

Best evidence that Biden won: All the Right can do today is whine about how “rude” Joe was and how Raddatz was “obviously biased” against Ryan.

In politics as in sports, when you’re reduced to complaining about the refs and your opponent’s “dirty play,” chances are you’re probably not the winner of the contest.

Bruno

October 12th, 2012
12:02 pm

He was spot-on correct, however, in his recitation of Democratic caricatures and talking points. But none of that was new. Nor was it likely to resonate beyond the Democratic base — which, as with the Democratic National Convention, was the entire intended audience.

Which was obvious to me as well, Kyle. Predictably, the brain-dead Libs here think it was some kind of run away win for Biden. If it had been a contest to see who could be the bigger A-hole, I might agree with them.

Rarely does the VP selection matter much to the American public, but I can say without hesitation that I would be much more comfortable with a young, inexperienced Paul Ryan at the helm than a shoot-from-the-hip jackass like Biden.

ByteMe - Got ilk?

October 12th, 2012
12:04 pm

5. Finally, in case you never thought you could laugh like Biden, Current TV (that’s Al Gore’s network) analyst David Shuster said the debate had made Biden “the frontrunner for 2016.”

The above isn’t a lie, so I don’t think I will be laughing like Biden was at Ryan. But I will laugh at the statement in my own way. And maybe add my own :roll: <—

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
12:04 pm

Forgot about the 47 percent stuff.

That is the real Romney.

Not the guy you see up there smiling and saying what people want to here.

Russ Moore

October 12th, 2012
12:05 pm

Kyle, allow me to be the first conservative to echo your points. Ryan was respectful and on-point. Biden was rude and immature. His tactic of smiling with disdain and being condescending (to Ryan and, surprisingly, also to the female moderator) are taken from the Al Gore playbook. I give the debate to Eddie Munster by a hair plug.

iggy

October 12th, 2012
12:12 pm

Thanks to Joe, the VP debate was entertaining. Joe was typical Joe. Ryan was typical Ryan.

In the long run this debate will not much matter.

The Almighty has already decided that Obama must be tossed out and sent back to where ever he came from. Romney has been pre-ordained to be the 2012 Presidential winner. It will happen.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

October 12th, 2012
12:13 pm

Biden/Warren 2016?

Hmmmmmm

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
12:14 pm

Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) said today that he voted to cut funding for U.S. embassy security amid political attacks from Republicans that the Obama administration did not do enough to secure the U.S. diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya that was attacked last month.

But hidden beneath the GOP campaign is the fact that House Republicans voted to cut nearly $300 million from the U.S. embassy security budget. When asked if he voted to cut the funds this morning on CNN, Chaffetz said, “Absolutely“:

The truth is starting to come out.

Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)

October 12th, 2012
12:14 pm

Will be interesting to see if Lyin Ryan not only loses the VP seat, but also loses his Wisconsin House seat.

That would be a grand slam.

Mr. Holmes

October 12th, 2012
12:15 pm

I think I’d prefer Warren/Biden 2016. Joe seems to be pretty good at this VP thing.

iggy

October 12th, 2012
12:16 pm

“The truth is starting to come out.”

That truth being more misappropriation of funds by The State Dept. In typical Hillary fashion, she let those people be murdered so she could cast blame.

Mr. Holmes

October 12th, 2012
12:19 pm

Yes, Iggy. In much the same way George Bush let those 3,000 people die on 9/11 so he could get a 90% approval rating.

Both ideas are equally preposterous.

A dad

October 12th, 2012
12:19 pm

I’m sure there was stretching of the facts by both sides last night, but what struck me the most was how absolutely childish and arrogant Biden was. Smirking, laughing, constantly interrupting, and being just down right rude. If I were the moderator I would have said something, and probably made him go stand in the corner. This man is our current VP. and last night was just a prime example of how the Obama administration has done in its attempts to build a coalition. Coalition? Sure, if that means the GOP votes the way Obama wants on every issue.
Am a bit baffled at those who say Biden won. I didn’t see a clear cut winner along the lines of Romney’s absolute spanking of Obama, and am really looking forward to the next Presidential debate to see if Obama can perform without his teleprompter.
Biden is an @ss, and a rude condescending one at that. I can only imagine the comments if Ryan had behaved as abysmally towards Biden as Biden did Ryan last night.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
12:21 pm

That truth being more misappropriation of funds by The State Dept. In typical Hillary fashion, she let those people be murdered so she could cast blame.

She didn’t have the funds they requested.

Republicans cut the budget.

Hey but dont let that stop you and Kyle and Cheesy Grits from trying to score political points with dead bodies.

Aquagirl

October 12th, 2012
12:21 pm

In typical Hillary fashion, she let those people be murdered so she could cast blame.

It wasn’t her fault…her evil ladyparts made her do it.

AtlSteve

October 12th, 2012
12:21 pm

Biden proved to be Biden…obnoxious & overbearing. Quite often interrupting Ryan and presenting false facts. Being loud and obnoxoius doesn’t make you the winner. I would say his manner probably cost Obama more votes than Biden got for him.

Kyle Wingfield

October 12th, 2012
12:26 pm

“Biden/Warren 2016?”

Please, please, don’t throw me into that briar patch!!

iggy

October 12th, 2012
12:26 pm

It could be as simple a Joe experiencing cramping and post menopausal hot flashes.

Mr. Holmes

October 12th, 2012
12:27 pm

Y’know, I did think Biden went slightly too far with what clearly was a strategy of aggressiveness and never letting a Ryan lie go unchallenged, but it’s very entertaining to see all these noble warriors of the Right crying like a bunch of little girls today because that mean old man pushed their favorite nerd around the schoolyard.

This is the party of strength, right? The party of no compromise? The party of American exceptionalism and no apologies? What a bunch of cr@p. The modern GOP is nothing more than a trembling collection of chickenhawk bullies who fold like a cheap card table the minute someone stands up to them.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
12:27 pm

Biden proved to be Biden…obnoxious & overbearing. Quite often interrupting Ryan and presenting false facts. Being loud and obnoxoius doesn’t make you the winner. I would say his manner probably cost Obama more votes than Biden got for him.

When they are complaining Biden was “rude” you know he won big.

Kyle Wingfield

October 12th, 2012
12:29 pm

Cheesy: You don’t get it. I’m certainly not “complaining” about Biden’s rudeness. I’m merely arguing that the very thing that you found entertaining and guffaw-worthy probably turned off more voters than not.

JamVet

October 12th, 2012
12:32 pm

HD, is correct, of course.

The election was over months ago.

These dog and pony shows change nada.

Better luck in 2016…

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
12:33 pm

Cheesy: You don’t get it. I’m certainly not “complaining” about Biden’s rudeness. I’m merely arguing that the very thing that you found entertaining and guffaw-worthy probably turned off more voters than not.

Spin.

MarkV

October 12th, 2012
12:38 pm

Kyle claims that Biden told a number of whoppers himself, and in the very first example he gives he distorts Biden’s reply by writing: “ saying there had been no requests for additional security in Benghazi, despite testimony to the contrary on Capitol Hill this week.”

But that is no what Biden said. He never said that “there had been no requests.” What he said was: “Well, we weren’t told they wanted more security again. We did not know they wanted more security again.” Nobody on Capitol Hill testified that the President or the VP had seen such requests. And if Kyle wants to argue that “we weren’t told” encompasses everybody in the government, it will be an utterly ridiculous argument.

A dad

October 12th, 2012
12:40 pm

Holmes and Cheesy:
I must be old-fashioned. I expected someone who holds the office of VP to act more in accordance with the status of that office. As for substance, all he did was name call and smirk. Just so happy for you that those are the traits you desire in your VP. Tactics, strategy, etc. aside, I’m hearing a lot of people were really turned off by Biden’s antics last night. Thanks Joe. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out in January.

Del

October 12th, 2012
12:46 pm

Kyle, I think you’re right that Biden’s style was a trial balloon for next week. Obama’s campaign managers will be looking to see if Biden moves the needle one way or the other. If there’s a shift in Obama’s favor, which I doubt, Obama may take on an aggressive posture in the second debate. If it appears by Monday that Romney has continuing momentum or it remains about the same as it is now Obama will have to make some tough tactical decisions. He has no margin for error another poor or even mediocre showing and he’s finished. Strategically Obama will have to successfully attack Romney’s credibility but will he attempt to do so by borrowing from Biden’s style or attempt another approach. Obama’s good at attacking and throwing barbs out on the stump but not so good one on one. The pressure will be mostly on Obama in this next round. Romney drew blood and won the first round decisively so all he has to do is appear very presidential and look for opportunities to force a very concerned possibly scared Obama into making mistakes or even making a fatal mistake.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
12:51 pm

I must be old-fashioned. I expected someone who holds the office of VP to act more in accordance with the status of that office

Ill bet you didn’t have a problem with Palin winking however.

Again if the best they have is that Biden was rude to the little schoolboy.

He won big.

Kyle Wingfield

October 12th, 2012
12:52 pm

Apparently, “spin” to Cheesy means “anything I disagree with.”

I stand by my earlier recommendation that you get a new dictionary.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

October 12th, 2012
12:53 pm

al-Gore couldn’t have done it better.

Del

October 12th, 2012
12:55 pm

“Republicans cut the budget.”

Cheesy,

A state department official either Kennedy or Lamb when asked if the decision not to provide the additional security requested was because of insufficient money the answer was “no”.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
1:02 pm

A state department official either Kennedy or Lamb when asked if the decision not to provide the additional security requested was because of insufficient money the answer was “no”.

The additional security wouldn’t have been needed if Republicans hadn’t gutted the budget in the first place.

Whats your point ?

#1 – Republicans have been cutting hundreds of millions out of Obama’s proposed budget for embassy security and that put all embassies at risk.

#2 – The Paul Ryan Budget that every House Republican voted for cut funding to the State Department by 20% that includes funding for embassy security.

#3 – President Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush Jr. and now Obama have all had attacks on embassies under their watch. Under Bush – 7 different attacks took place where people died.

#4 – Officials at the State Department did turn down requests for funding at the Libyan Embassy although the Regional Security officer of Libya – Eric Nordstrom – did not believe having additional agents would have prevented the assault.

Case closed.

A dad

October 12th, 2012
1:03 pm

Cheesy – I didn’t watch Palin’s debate, nor did I vote R last time around. If you think Biden won big, then nothing you would ever read, see, hear, etc., would change that viewpoint, and that you believe thusly shows that any attempt to have an actual intellectual debate with you is about as pointless as Biden was an @ss last night. Have a nice day dude.

iggy

October 12th, 2012
1:04 pm

Hillary lied our diplomats died. <—Simple as that.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
1:05 pm

Apparently, “spin” to Cheesy means “anything I disagree with.

No it means you are basically making the same old ” Biden was a big meanie ” argument but in a little different way.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
1:06 pm

Hillary lied our diplomats died. <—Simple as that.

Unfortunately it isn’t.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
1:07 pm

Have a nice day dude.

You too big guy.

Del

October 12th, 2012
1:08 pm

Cheesy,

It’s clear you haven’t been following the facts that have been coming out in the aftermath of this tragic terrorist attack in Libya.

Jaynie

October 12th, 2012
1:09 pm

You’re complaining about Biden being rude becuase he smiled and chuckled? You didn’t complain when Ryan said rape was a method of conception that did not change the definition of life. No abortion ever per Ryan. He is in favor of women who have been raped being forced to bear their rapist’s baby. Don’t you think the person who had suffered the rape should make that call instead of the Big Daddy Government? Ryan is a jerk. Of course none of these guys are prizes, but at least the Obama/Biden party don’t think I should have to suffer rape, suffer pregnancy, suffer child birth, then be on my own with a baby born from violence. A woman can certainly bear that child if SHE chooses. She can keep that child if SHE chooses. She can give up that baby for adoption if SHE chooses. A woman can also choose not to bear a child that is a result of rape. A woman should certainly have a choice, whatever that choice is.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
1:11 pm

Mitt Romney has been using one of the victims – a slain Navy Seal – in his stump speech to further politicize this; the Navy Seal’s mother has asked him to stop HERE:

“I don’t trust Romney. He shouldn’t make my son’s death part of his political agenda,” Barbara Doherty told Boston’s WHDH. “It’s wrong to use these brave young men, who wanted freedom for all, to degrade Obama.”

Shameful.

A President Romney would really make you proud of America huh.

A man who will say or take any position to win. Who will use the death of American soldiers for his own political gain. The same man WHO NOT ONCE MENTIONED THE TROOPS AT HIS CONVENTION !!!!

I almost hope you guys get what your asking for. But I dont know if this country can survive another Republican Administration. Especially after the last one.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
1:12 pm

Cheesy,

It’s clear you haven’t been following the facts that have been coming out in the aftermath of this tragic terrorist attack in Libya.

Its clear you’ve been getting yours from one source.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed

October 12th, 2012
1:14 pm

“But hidden beneath the GOP campaign is the fact that House Republicans voted to cut nearly $300 million from the U.S. embassy security budget. When asked if he voted to cut the funds this morning on CNN, Chaffetz said, “Absolutely“: ”

Cheesy, you need to learn about the appropriations cycle before posting this nonsense again.

The House passed a couple of budgets which cut funding for embassy security, true, but that only tells half the story (as you libs so love to do when you don’t know the facts).

The other half is that the Senate hasn’t passed a budget in over 1,000 days, which means that ALL previous funding levels are available to every agency since the last budget was passed – 3 years ago. So it doesn’t matter what the Republicans passed or who voted for what; the dollars are still there if an agency requests to use them.

The State Dept. didn’t bother to approve the requested funding. The State Dept. is the diplomatic arm of the Obama administration, therefore the Obama administration is responsible for funding levels. It is the State Dept. under President Obama that got those 4 Americans killed.

No spin. Just facts. Learn them instead of DNC talking points.

Del

October 12th, 2012
1:14 pm

“Eric Nordstrom – did not believe having additional agents would have prevented the assault.”

I think you got that from a NYT’s report on the hearings. Nordstrom was very critical of the State Departments failure to provide additional security. Preventing the assault isn’t the issue, the issue is there wasn’t sufficient security to thwart the assault or at least hold it off long enough for the arrival of a reaction force.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
1:14 pm

A woman can also choose not to bear a child that is a result of rape. A woman should certainly have a choice, whatever that choice is.

And that choice will be gone with Romney/Ryan.

The Government will make that decision for you little lady.

I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please

October 12th, 2012
1:16 pm

Preventing the assault isn’t the issue, the issue is there wasn’t sufficient security to thwart the assault or at least hold it off long enough for the arrival of a reaction force.

Because of Republican budget cuts.

and round and round we go.

Del

October 12th, 2012
1:16 pm

Cheesy,

I watched the hearings live, did you?