VP debate live thread: Biden vs. Ryan
FINAL UPDATE: As predicted, this debate won’t end up mattering very much. Each base will be pleased with its candidate and bewildered anyone could think much of the other guy, but I can’t imagine undecideds picking Obama or Romney based on tonight.
***
UPDATE at 9:50: The story of this debate so far is Biden’s rude and erratic behavior — interrupting Ryan repeatedly and weirdly laughing throughout Ryan’s remarks. As I said before, the obvious strategy is to portray Ryan, and by extension Romney, as untrustworthy. But there’s enough in his own remarks — his claim that no Democrats support Medicare premium support, for example — that should be howled down by the fact checkers that it isn’t going to work.
It will be interesting to see how well Ryan’s barrage of data and statistics goes over. Biden has stuck with one or two figures per answer; even though they’ve often been wrong, out of date, or misleading, the simplicity might work better. We shall see.
***
UPDATE at 9:20: Biden is doubling down on the idea the GOP candidates don’t tell the truth: “malarkey” and “incredible” are the words he uses to open his initial responses to Ryan’s comments. But it seems to me he left himself very much open to the fact checkers with his comment that there were no requests for additional security in Benghazi — there’s already been sworn testimony to the contrary before Congress.
That’s about all Biden said about Libya, as he quickly changed the subject to Iraq and bin Laden. Compared to Ryan’s detailed breakdown of what went wrong in Benghazi, I’m guessing that didn’t go over well with viewers.
***
ORIGINAL POST:
I’ll be updating this post periodically during tonight’s debate between Vice President Joe Biden and his would-be successor, Paul Ryan. I’ll also be tweeting my thoughts, and I encourage you to follow them, too.
On Monday, I wrote about the expectations factor in last week’s first presidential debate. I think that could play out the opposite way tonight: Republicans, in particular, are positively giddy about the prospect the well-spoken Ryan will tear the gaffe-prone Biden to shreds. But this ignores the fact Biden has more experience in this type of setting and a demeanor that could translate well to the viewership. Ryan is an unknown quality as far as debates go, though he’s proven to be effective at retail politics.
And there’s the question of how much tonight will matter, anyway. Who remembers the Dick Cheney-John Edwards debate in 2004? The Cheney-Lieberman debate in 2000? Lloyd Bentsen tore Dan Quayle a new one in 1988, while Quayle performed better than expected against Al Gore in 1992 — and yet neither Michael Dukakis nor George H.W. Bush won their respective races.
A Ryan win could keep momentum on the GOP’s side, while a Biden win could be used to spark an “Obama comeback” story. Would either development outlive next Tuesday’s Round 2 between President Obama and Mitt Romney? I doubt it.
But hey: It will, no doubt, be fun to watch and discuss.
– By Kyle Wingfield
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
234 comments Add your comment
PROUD NAVY VET
October 11th, 2012
5:39 pm
I have seen a video from the Presidential debate last week and it shows Gov. Romney taking papers from his left front pocket as he reaches the podiem and the putting papers up his left sleeve as the debate ends. I’m sure many have seen it, it’s on UTUBE. What was that he took out of his pocket? The rules are no papers, notes or aids of any kind. Someone please tell me what that was. Did he cheat?
@@
October 11th, 2012
5:52 pm
Who remembers the Dick Cheney-John Edwards debate in 2004?
ME!!!!!
I’ve been reviewing past debates and ran across this from the 2007 primaries.
Hillary vs Obama:
Though often accused of not being clear on what she would do to save the Social Security system, Clinton was very clear during the debate about one thing: She was against Obama’s plan to increase Social Security taxes on some people making more than $97,000 a year.
“I do not want to fix the problems of Social Security on the backs of middle-class families and seniors,” she said.
“If you lift the cap completely, that is a $1 trillion tax increase. I don’t think we need to do that.”
A visibly upset Obama responded: “Understand that only 6 percent of Americans make more than $97,000 a year. So six percent is not the middle class. It is the upper class!”
So just five short years ago, Obama thought $98,000 a year was upper class?
What number did he finally settle on? It’s been an up and down proposition with this guy.
Patty
October 11th, 2012
6:03 pm
Proud Navy Vet, if that really did happen and Romney used notes, don’t you think the LIBERAL press would have had a field day with that? Now, why I respect the service you do for your country, please stop with the excuses. Obama lost the debate–it’s over.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 11th, 2012
6:09 pm
Navy Vet, I saw Romney vesting pointers from Elvis just before going onstage.
Hyphen libs have become unhinged since Romney wiped the floor with your Messaiah.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 11th, 2012
6:10 pm
Sorry. Android spell check at work.
MarkV
October 11th, 2012
6:12 pm
@@ @5:52 pm
There is no universal definition of middle- and upper-class, and depending on the subject, it can be quite reasonable to draw the line differently. It is certainly an insignificant issue compared with Romney’s 47% comments.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 11th, 2012
6:13 pm
Hey Kyle! I’m still hoping for that “rip the beating heart out of Biden’s chest” moment you referenced in your earlier comments.
That’s why I have this set to DVR.
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
6:15 pm
A little pre-debate reading for those weary of LDS political intentions
http://www.salon.com/2012/01/29/mitt_and_the_white_horse_prophecy/
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 11th, 2012
6:15 pm
Looks like the Yerkes Primate Center had a religious bigot escape tonight.
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
6:21 pm
A vote for Willard is a vote for Joseph Smith and the Mormon cult. Don’t be fooled by the slick hair and the million dollar smile. Smith wants the LDS to establish a theocracy based on his delusions here in the United States and then the world. That’s why they canvas our neighborhoods with “missionaries” they need more money and more bodies. That’s why Willard contributed so much to the cult. Members are required to do so. The number I was told is 30% of reported income. Yes, they will ask to see your financial records.
jconservative
October 11th, 2012
6:29 pm
I will do something more exciting than sitting through a VP debate. I plan on going outside, turning on the lights, and watching the grass grow.
PROUD NAVY VET
October 11th, 2012
6:45 pm
It you re-read my post, I’m asking what it was. It’s on utube, take a look and tell me what you think it is please.
MarkV
October 11th, 2012
6:48 pm
PROUD NAVY VET @6:45 pm
I believe there was good evidence that it was a white handkerchief.
PROUD NAVY VET
October 11th, 2012
6:54 pm
Oh, yes. The President was beat that night. They both said things that were untrue. I’m not afraid of saying that. I will admit when I feel he is wrong. Because that’s what honorable people do. I truly try to be honest and tell the truth about everything. I have always taught my kids that, tell the truth, no matter what the cost. I also feel Mr. Romney changed his position drastically to appear more center leaning then he has been for over a year. We have an example within the last 36 hours about abortion. That was proven on Starting Point this morning by Soliad Obrian, it also is on utube. Can anyone who supports Gov. Romney say he switched his stance to appear more center? Please, tell the truth. Not trying to bash or tear down Mr. Romney, facts are facts and there is video to support it. Tell the truth.
PROUD NAVY VET
October 11th, 2012
6:55 pm
Markv, I sure hope it was.
Aquagirl
October 11th, 2012
6:55 pm
It’s a hanky, for cryin’ out loud. Obama’s campaign says the yootubers et al. claiming otherwise are a tinfoil hat crowd.
Leave the crazy internet mutterings to the Birthers and other kooks. They’re doing a much better job of crazy.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-sheffield/2012/10/11/obama-campaign-derides-liberal-bloggers-tinfoil-hat-crowd-promoti
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 11th, 2012
7:13 pm
Proud Navy Vet
You are sounding a lot like Van Jones and Cynthia McKinney here tonight.
Del
October 11th, 2012
7:18 pm
Given Obama’s poor performance in the first presidential debate and resultant Romney/Ryan big bump in the poles It’s hard to envision a strategy of having Biden of all people come into this debate with guns blazing. I think Axelfraud and the DNC want Biden to just maintain composure and come out of it wound free. The Obama campaign if they have their way would rather come out of this debate with a draw that they can spin as a victory. Their problem may be Joe, who could lose discipline and gaffe terribly. Should that happen Ryan will come out a distinct winner much like Romney.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 11th, 2012
7:20 pm
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/timesbay-news-9herald-exclusive-florida-poll-romney-51-obama-44/1255882
Posted in memory of DannyX, who has just disappeared along with Barry’s support. Where oh where is DannyX, the poll master? We have really missed our daily posting of new polls, Danny.
Dharma Bum
October 11th, 2012
7:23 pm
PROUD NAVY VET
You should totally investigate that further and file a report…
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
7:27 pm
Will the debate be closed captioned so that normal decent people can understand o’bidens psychobabble?
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 11th, 2012
7:30 pm
Should that happen Ryan will come out a distinct winner much like Romney.
Del, Prediction- if Ryan clearly wins, the spin will be that he lied.
They said Romney lied because he couldn’t defend how he was going to pay for the 5T dollar tax cut, that he never proposed. So, you are supposed to be prepared to discuss your economic plans and the one the Dems have written for you as well. If you don’t embrace the plan they crafted for you then you have changed your position, you are not an extremist now, but are trying to be a moderate, according to them.
It is just downright funny to watch a regime, with a very poor record, few accomplishments, no plan for a second term other than more of the miasma, try to wage a campaign with only one plank, tar and feather the other guy.
md
October 11th, 2012
7:30 pm
Romney didn’t flip on abortion……all he said was he had no plans to offer legislation to change the status quo, but at the same time he acknowledged he is still anti-abortion.
Del
October 11th, 2012
7:33 pm
Proud Navy Vet,
Soledad O’Brian isn’t exactly an unbiased media personality. We conservatives felt Romney has stayed close to our principals and understand that he’s in this to win. Obama was in it to win during the 08 campaign that saw him appear to remake himself into a centrist. Obama is not a centrist, he’s a far left radical who slipped by the electorate. The Romney shift if indeed there has been one is minor in comparison to Obama’s deception.
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
7:45 pm
So, no word from the Ryan camp about magic underwear? They seemed to work really well for Willard. He’s for and against the same thing at the same time. Abra freakin’ cadabra!
Del
October 11th, 2012
7:48 pm
Rafe, of course they’ll accuse Ryan of lying as they have Romney. They have a timing problem, however, because of this inexcusable loss of life in Benghazi. They can’t escape from the White House and State Department lies and coverup of this tragic incident. This may be of and in itself the downfall of this pathetically incompetent administration.
Del
October 11th, 2012
7:53 pm
Me thinks the lib’s are terrified of their impending loss and can’t even make semi coherent comments.
@@
October 11th, 2012
7:57 pm
MarkV:
If the government’s gonna divide us into classes, I need which pigeonhole I belong in.
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
7:57 pm
For the record: I accept all religions. In America, we are free to worship as we choose. I have friends of all faiths and I enjoy our discussions. Religious cults like the Latter Day Saints or Mormons, on the other hand, should be viewed with much skepticism. There is a dangerous fanaticism that has always been an element of their organization. Yes, they even have murdered Americans from time to time. It all started with Joseph Smith shooting and killing three of his own townsmen before trying to flee the scene by jumping out of a second story window. Why would Joseph Smith’s own people raise charges against him? Eventually, his true intentions were revealed. How do you get away with adultery? Call it polygamy and declare it an official practice of the cult. How do you bypass God’s law? Put Joseph Smith above God. Willard didn’t make his way to a high office in the cult by fluffing his way through. This is his core.
iggy
October 11th, 2012
8:00 pm
“It you re-read my post, I’m asking what it was. It’s on utube, take a look and tell me what you think it is please.”
A large communion wafer, perhaps?
@@
October 11th, 2012
8:05 pm
Gravy Train:
Religious cults like the Latter Day Saints or Mormons, on the other hand, should be viewed with much skepticism.
Then don’t join the LDS church.
Simple enough?
Del
October 11th, 2012
8:07 pm
Gravy Brain,
I’ve seen nothing in my generation or previous generations let alone today that gives any indication we have anything to be concerned with as we do from radical Islamic jihadists.
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
8:07 pm
You know, I forgot something. If Lyin’ Ryan gets stuck, he can always fall back on Atlas Shrugged material. LOL, you guys actually nominated these clowns. Excuse me. The PLUTOCRATS that run your party nominated these clowns! They are right, you are easy to manipulate.
They BOTH suck
October 11th, 2012
8:07 pm
@@
Since the 1st time read Gravy and his sock puppets posts it has been the same exact thing.
Nothing new. Doesn’t matter which AJC blog
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
8:08 pm
Research how Brigham Young declared war on the United States of America, Del.
Del
October 11th, 2012
8:12 pm
Off to watch the pregame. Y’all enjoy.
@@
October 11th, 2012
8:12 pm
A picture of Romney wiping his nose with the nefarious cheat sheet.
getalife
October 11th, 2012
8:12 pm
Jack Kemp said it was not trickle down, it was Niagara Falls.
How did that turn out cons?
Niagara Falls for the deficit.
getalife
October 11th, 2012
8:15 pm
Bring em young was a radical.
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
8:23 pm
Congressman, I served with Dan Quayle, I knew Dan Quayle, Dan Quayle was a friend of mine. Congressman, you’re no Dan Quayle. (Prolonged shouts and applause.)
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
8:24 pm
V.P. Joe Biden, the pit bull attack dog has been unleashed… He haven’t been fed in a week…. The pit bull is going to beat that Boy like a Govment mule… Biden is going to rip that little Wisconsin whippersnapper a new +++ ++++… Heh heh heh !!!
iggy
October 11th, 2012
8:26 pm
Test…
iggy
October 11th, 2012
8:26 pm
The PMSNBCrs are working themselves in to pre-meltdown…
cc
October 11th, 2012
8:27 pm
PROUD NAVY VET@5:39 pm:
“I have seen a video from the Presidential debate last week and it shows Gov. Romney taking papers from his left front pocket as he reaches the podiem and the putting papers up his left sleeve as the debate ends”
I watched the debate and certainly missed seeing any papers being moved from pockets to sleeves. Perhaps there has been some clever video editing done post-debate or maybe it was only his handkerchief?
Gravy Train@6:11 pm:
“Kyle, are the cult members loaning Ryan a pair of magic underwear for the debate tonight?”
You are very tiring, very old broken record. Why are YOU so obsessed with ‘underwear’? Do you have some secret ‘underwear fetish’?
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 11th, 2012
8:44 pm
Is either candidate using a teleprompter? I would just like to know?
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
8:47 pm
Congressman, I partied with Sarah Palin, I “knew” Sarah Palin, Sarah Palin was a freak. Congressman, you’re no Sarah Palin. (Prolonged shouts and applause.)
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
8:54 pm
cmad, you mean like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFcNbfp7wig
Grasshopper
October 11th, 2012
9:06 pm
Biden did not even attempt to answer the Libya question.
iggy
October 11th, 2012
9:08 pm
Smilin Joe has no answer.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
9:08 pm
Well, if smiling like an idiot is a qualification, then o’biden really is a VP.
Grasshopper
October 11th, 2012
9:21 pm
Biden acts a complete fool with that ceramic grin on his botoxxed face. Can you imagine him as president? Complete disaster.
Gravy Train is on one for sure
October 11th, 2012
9:30 pm
Yeah, we sure would hate to have a successful, decent, honorable man who respects the rights of all Americans as President. That would just be horrible.
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
9:47 pm
Don’t look now, but Boy Blunder Lyin’ Ryan is getting torched!
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
9:50 pm
Obviously, magic underwear is no match for the truth. SHAZAAM!
DLS
October 11th, 2012
9:50 pm
What is with the moderator asking permission to change the subject. One of the worst debate moderators ever.
iggy
October 11th, 2012
9:51 pm
Where is Train Wreck?
Red
October 11th, 2012
9:53 pm
#hohum @yawn. so bored- wonk wonk what?
bv
October 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
Joe B is rude
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
No big advantage to either side on the facts, but Biden has shown time and again that he’s short on manners.
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
bv– Coke!
Hillbilly D
October 11th, 2012
9:56 pm
Y’all are missing some damn good baseball.
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
9:59 pm
Not me, HD–I’m split-screening it. Good NCAA football game as well, W. Kentucky at Troy.
BCE753
October 11th, 2012
9:59 pm
I’m 42. I’ve been working and paying social security taxes since 1986 and I am so tired of hearing Romney Ryan say its ok for my generation–that has also planned its future figuring in the return on our lifetime investment in social security–to make the sacrifice for the benefit of current seniors and baby boomers about to retire. No one is publicly objecting I this generational wealth transfer. Wake up! When my generation hears social security reform qualified with the words “for current seniors,” it’s another way of saying to us F-U!
p bellue
October 11th, 2012
10:00 pm
VP Biden has talked out of turn, and still says nothing. He has no record to talk on, he can only be rude and say nothing. the mediator cannot control Biden. this is a truly a fall away debate. Biden has only one thing going for him. more talk.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:00 pm
Paul “Ayn Rand” Ryan has a new one… Not only will Ryan not be elected V.P., Ryan will not be re-elected to his Congressional seat… Pitiful.. So sad…
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 11th, 2012
10:02 pm
If you’re planning on relying on SS for your retirement, you must not have much self respect. SS provides a pathetic standard of living. You should be saving and planning for a decent retirement for yourself.
MAScott
October 11th, 2012
10:02 pm
I am so happy to see Paul Ryan called what he is a liar…I want all his benefits back and then let us see how he functions!
eve
October 11th, 2012
10:07 pm
Biden is a caricature of himself. His smirking and interrupting overshadows any valid points he can make. Look at these 2 men. Which one would you choose to be the replacement for the President? If being and looking presidential matters, then Ryan undoubtedly is the choice.
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
10:07 pm
Lyin’ Ryan in the Oval Office? America says “NO!”
p bellue
October 11th, 2012
10:08 pm
this is pitiful. Biden lying to keep face. have the dems not briefed him?
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
10:10 pm
I hope Ryan is not wearing the mythical mormon magic underwear. He definitely has soiled them. LOL The PLUTOCRATS stuck you with this chump. LOL
Lscott
October 11th, 2012
10:10 pm
Who picks these moderators??? Find a bright non partisan person who can handle the debates.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:11 pm
Paul “Rand” Ryan had a chance to serve in the military… He could have volunteered to fight in the first Gulf was, the second Gulf war and the Afghan war… Ryan chose not to fight… Ryan==> Chicken Hawk, just like Mittens Romney… Both of them are “soft.”
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:13 pm
Non rich Republicans ==> All style, no substance… No plan…
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
10:15 pm
Paul “Rand” Ryan had a chance to serve in the military…
Last I checked, neither Obama nor Biden served in the military either. Your point??
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:16 pm
I wonder which idiot in the audience o’biden is playing his giggle about Ryan game with.
Can there possibly be two whackjobs in the same building?
smart
October 11th, 2012
10:16 pm
Obviously Joe has kicked his butt.
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
10:17 pm
Not me, HD!
1 -1 in the eighth.
The cons next door are reporting that Baltimore is up 9 -1 and Biden got crushed!
LOL…
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:17 pm
Romney/Ryan is toast… A footnote in the history books… Obama/Biden will win re-election in a historic landslide…
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
10:17 pm
UPDATE 10:19 Kyle is scrambling like mad to spin this disaster that is Lyin’ Ryan.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:21 pm
o’biden doesn’t impose his beliefs on anyone??????????????????????????????????????????????
Who does o’biden think pays for planned parenthood and all the other government sponsored murderers of unborn children?
Who levies taxes, moron?
md
October 11th, 2012
10:22 pm
I think Joe got his marching orders to be stern, and he certainly started out that way…….then he morphed into an angry old man……..a bit grouchy and rude.
Can’t say I’m impressed with either of them.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:24 pm
Hoking a Veteran up with a poverty level income is a “sacred obligation” to o’biden. Wow, isn’t he the man?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:24 pm
hooking, geez
Bhoefner
October 11th, 2012
10:25 pm
Has this moderator heard of separation of church and state…personal feelings have no place in office.
I do not want anyone determining what I should or should not do regarding my body in regard to contraception or abortion because of their own religious beliefs. Who are these people thinking that they can take women back to the middle ages..leave us alone and impose your beliefs on their own daughters and wives.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:26 pm
Attention all non rich Americans… If you wish to have a happy and prosperous life for yourselves, your Children and your Grand Children, Vote Democrat… Give the Democrats the tools they need to fix what the Republicans screwed up… The Democrats must have a 100 seat majority in the House, a filibuster proof super majority in the Senate and re-elect President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden in a historic landslide…
@@
October 11th, 2012
10:26 pm
The dems need to cut Joe loose while he’s still young enough to get a leading role on some soap opera.
geez!
smart
October 11th, 2012
10:27 pm
There is no way a God fearing BAPTIST could ever VOTE for a very proud CULTLeader (MORMON). That means Romney would be the first non-christian president in our countrys history.
Bhoefner
October 11th, 2012
10:30 pm
Lying Ryan will bring “honesty” to the VP office…REALLY!!!!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:31 pm
Ryan was the clear winner unless, of course, inane talking points is all you’re looking for from your leaders.
Liberal Pariah
October 11th, 2012
10:31 pm
I am a God fearing evangelical Southern Baptist (that’s why I am a Liberal Pariah) and I will vote for Romney. I believe Obama is the first non Christian President in our countrys history.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:32 pm
Attention Romney/Ryan… We the non rich Americans don’t want to hear anymore talk from either of you about tax cuts for rich people… Those days are over with… No one who earn more than $250.000 dollars a year will receive any got damn tax cuts in the forseeable future… So please, don’t insult our intelligence again with this tax cuts for rich people B.S…
Liberal Pariah
October 11th, 2012
10:33 pm
Biden’s condescension is annoying even for a Liberal. He represents failure for the last 4 years. Time for a change. The Republicans screwed nothing up without help from the Democrats. What part of EPIC FAIL do you Libs not understand. Obama has failed and he has no plan, just SPEECHES.
Liberal Pariah
October 11th, 2012
10:34 pm
The people you want to cut taxes on are the job producers. Only an idiot goes for this class warfare garbage.
jconservative
October 11th, 2012
10:36 pm
Liberal Pariah at 10:31
You might want to check the SBC website for this document.
“On June 14th, 2000, the Southern Baptist Convention adopted a revised summary of our faith.”
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:37 pm
All the Founding Fathers Presidents were Deists… They worshipped the Sun God Ra… Ignorance is the Temple of the presumptous… Arrogance is ignorance matured…
smart
October 11th, 2012
10:37 pm
How can a party that claims they support christian values support a MORMON they don’t believe the BIBLE. Wake up people understand what MORMONs are put your prejusdices aside. Romney want be able to pray to GOD because of his CULT believe.
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
Give the Democrats the tools they need to fix what the Republicans screwed up… The Democrats must have a 100 seat majority in the House, a filibuster proof super majority in the Senate and re-elect President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden in a historic landslide…
OWL–In case you were asleep the past 4 years, the Dems had their chance, and fumbled at every turn. Time to give someone else a chance. Making excuses only goes so far.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
So the intelligence community is to blame for the death of Christopher Stephens, according to o’biden. Of course, the intelligence community doesn’t work for o’biden and his little tard boss, who are these shadowy people that call themselves intelligent? Are they from Wall Street, boogey, boogey , boogey. Should we start an Occupy the Intelligence Community protest? Duh. Babble. Wuz n charge hear? What, we have an army? What’s the army do? Are they spying on us? Blah, blah, blah.
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
The people you want to cut taxes on are the trickle downers. (Because it’s worked so damn good for the past thirty years!)
Hillbilly D
October 11th, 2012
10:42 pm
All the Founding Fathers Presidents were Deists…
All Founding Fathers weren’t anything. They were a varied group of people, some Christians, some Deists and some probably didn’t have any beliefs at all.
And y’all do know that Gainesville has already had a Mormon mayor and the world didn’t come to an end? Matter of fact, hardly anybody even noticed.
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
10:44 pm
Can’t say I’m impressed with either of them.
Not a knockout either way, md. Ryan came across as a little bit young and inexperienced, Biden came across as a rude old man who thinks shouting down your opponent = victory.
I have to give the edge to Ryan for his closing statement, however. Even though it came across as totally rehearsed, I appreciated his appeal to character. I believed him when he said that he and Romney won’t duck the tough issues, and certainly won’t spend the next 4 years blaming others.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:44 pm
Ah, the dummycrat position, now I get it. We didn’t do it. We aren’t responsible for it. Not our problem. He did it, whoever he is. Pass the buck. But we’ll get to the bottom, uh huh, wink, wink. I didn’t say I’d get to the bottom of it, he did. Why didn’t you get to the bottom of it, he? Who’s on first?
Del
October 11th, 2012
10:45 pm
Biden was the smiling buffoon he typically is in any venue. One heart beat away. Good job Ryan.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:46 pm
Never has so much blame been passed around by so few people.
Del
October 11th, 2012
10:48 pm
Oddly, the Owl knows little about the faith of the founding fathers.
Patty
October 11th, 2012
10:52 pm
You can’t yell about the separation of church and state, then tell people not to vote for Romney because he’s Mormon and therefore not a Christian. That’s called ‘talking out of both sides of your mouth.’
md
October 11th, 2012
10:54 pm
Bruno……I’m guessing we aren’t the only ones that noticed Biden appeared to be trying to bully Ryan……and it probably worked just fine for his base…….but the base weren’t the ones he needed to win over.
I thought ryan was a bit slow on getting his numbers out there…..he knows his stuff, he just didn’t convey it too well in that setting.
And unlike some of the “takers” yelling up the page, I’m not rich but I’m also not full of envy and realize that we ALL got tax cuts. Only the morally bankrupt vote for others to give theirs back without offering up their own………..we ALL live here and we ALL make choices that put us where we are.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:58 pm
The rich, the elite and their lap dog corporate bosses are NOT job creators… If they created jobs, we would not have a 7.1 unemployment rate, which has gone down the last four years from a high of 12 % under the Bush/Cheney economic meltdown.. Corporations like Bain Capital outsource jobs from America and create jobs in China, India and Mexico.. The Republicans filibustered 79 Democrat bills, half of them jobs bills… So please, Don’t insult my intelligence again with the B.S… President Eisenhowser said about the neo-con Republicans back in 1954, who craved getting rid of Social security, Unions etc and spend all the money on the military industrial complex; “They’re Stupid.”
W. Jackson
October 11th, 2012
11:00 pm
Imagery is very crucial in modern media driven politics. Coming across as your favorite uncle, smiling and telling you things will be alright, was one of the driving forces behind Ronald Reagan’s appeal that crossed the isle to a dissatisfied Democratic voter base.
Yes, Biden came across as relaxed, confident and knowledgeable (as long as you don’t check his facts too closely). He also came across like a life long career politician, one of the people who spent decades creating the mess we’re in. In other words, not your favorite uncle but the smiling used car salesman who sold you a lemon and wants to sell you another.
Biden’s performance will satisfy the Democrats whose minds will never be changed, however, it has done nothing to reassure many questioning Democrats…anymore than Carter did.
In the end, the debate went to Biden, the win went to Ryan.
md
October 11th, 2012
11:02 pm
I thought one had to have intelligence before it could be insulted.
Did I say that out loud?? Shame on me…..
md
October 11th, 2012
11:05 pm
For those that actually have some sense, one might understand what that 2T in corp profits sitting offshore could do for our economy and which party is keeping it offshore……but only for those that actually have a clue.
The angel Moroni
October 11th, 2012
11:06 pm
Somebody get Todd Akin on the phone. I want to know whether what Biden did to Ryan was a “legitimate” rape or just one of those other types of rape. Ryan was owned.
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
11:07 pm
Look at these sheep trying to spin Boy Blunder, Lyin’ Ryan. Where’s Kyle? Come on out and defend the indefensible. Are you getting a pair of magic underwear out of this deal? That’s the least Willard should do for your brave attempt at pushing these clowns on America. Nobody wants a whiny little lap dog in the Oval Office.
md
October 11th, 2012
11:08 pm
The stupid ones are the ones that think Social Security is/was a retirement program………
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
11:08 pm
BOOM!
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
11:09 pm
And unlike some of the “takers” yelling up the page, I’m not rich but I’m also not full of envy and realize that we ALL got tax cuts. Only the morally bankrupt vote for others to give theirs back without offering up their own………..we ALL live here and we ALL make choices that put us where we are.
Virtually every conservative who posts here supports a shared sacrifice, while every Lib wants to hang the recovery on the “rich”. The term “morally bankrupt” isn’t strong enough to describe my feelings toward those who want others to pay their way. We’re all in this thing together, one way or another.
md
October 11th, 2012
11:09 pm
Magic underwear? A bit juvenile don’t you think?
MarkV
October 11th, 2012
11:10 pm
The Libya issue – a minor issue in terms of the overall foreign policy, was the only one Ryan can find some solace in. Biden killed him on taxes, entitlements, Afghanistan.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
11:11 pm
The Republicans have ran up a $13 trillion dollars debt… Pay your debt… Don’t talk about it, pay it off… The reckless Republicans keep attempting to dump their $13 trillion dollars debt at the doorstep of the Democrats… We Democrats are not going to pay one dime of you Republican’s $13 trillion dollars debt… You ran up the debt with tax cuts for the rich… Now you must tax the rich and non rich Republicans and pay down your debt… So please, don’t bring you debt problems to Democrats doorsteps… Pay your bills…
They BOTH suck
October 11th, 2012
11:12 pm
“while every Lib wants to hang the recovery on the “rich”. ”
I will call lie on that, but also say whats up?
I have on numerous occasions advocating the phasing in of the rates during the Clinton years as well as phasing out or changing the EITC.
But your post did make a great soundbite
md
October 11th, 2012
11:13 pm
“Biden killed him on taxes, entitlements, Afghanistan.”
Highly debatable……for another time.
Out…..
The angel Moroni
October 11th, 2012
11:14 pm
md- you’re right about Social Security not being a retirement program. A retirement program is either a pension or personal savings invested in a balanced portfolio. Only an idiot would suggest that for Social Security.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
11:17 pm
The first step to knowing wisdom is knowing your ignorance…
Gb nickles
October 11th, 2012
11:17 pm
The Democratic Party will be cut by half in 20 years. The democratic Party supports gay marriage 2 people that can not reproduce. The democratic party support abortion they will be killing future democrats Oboma care will kill off seniors before their time The democratic party will implode from within.
The angel Moroni
October 11th, 2012
11:17 pm
Wearing magic underwear is a bit juvenile. Talking about people who believe in it and make it part of their daily lives is a valid discussion point.
md
October 11th, 2012
11:18 pm
SS, like welfare, was designed as a safety net program……..never as a lifestyle. If one looks at either as a long term solution one will most likely be highly disappointed.
md
October 11th, 2012
11:18 pm
Now I’m out….
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
11:18 pm
Republicans bring about their own undoing through their tongues…
Patty
October 11th, 2012
11:19 pm
ODD OWL, glad to know you finally recognize your own ignorance.
@@
October 11th, 2012
11:21 pm
Pretty much a draw in my opinion.
Joe laughing while Ryan talked about the Benghazi attack was DEFINITELY out of line.
I’ve never witnessed condescension from an average Joe. Maybe Joe’s below average?
schnirt
Gb nickles
October 11th, 2012
11:28 pm
Laughing Joe how rude!!!!!!
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
11:28 pm
I have on numerous occasions advocating the phasing in of the rates during the Clinton years as well as phasing out or changing the EITC.
TBS–In case you missed it, the Lefties want the Clinton era tax rates restored only for the high earners, while keeping the lowered rates for everyone else.
Plus, I thought that your moniker implied that you are a moderate……
P.S. Send my $100 to Doctors Without Borders and Operation Smile, my two favorite charities.
Michael H. Smith
October 11th, 2012
11:34 pm
“The story of this debate so far is Biden’s rude and erratic behavior”
Rude and erratic behavior is a life long trait of Mr. Biden’s. Fortunately more people probably watched this debate on a television rather than listened to it on a radio, Kyle.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
11:37 pm
V.P. Biden wiped the floor with that inexperienced youngster, Rand Ryan…
They BOTH suck
October 11th, 2012
11:40 pm
Bruno
Never said I didn’t lean left. I just think they both suck at governing. You never read where I said anything good about Pelosi or Reid in terms of how they ran the show.
Michael H. Smith
October 11th, 2012
11:42 pm
The Benghazi attack was a MAJOR FAILURE for obama and biden. Now all they can do is try to cover up, laugh it off and lie.
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
11:43 pm
You never read where I said anything good about Pelosi or Reid in terms of how they ran the show.
Do you trust Ryan and Romney when they say they will seek bipartisan input for their policies??
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
11:45 pm
You Republicans seem unaware of the fact that President Obama lured Mittens Romney into a trap and set him up with his “rope-a-dope” tactic in the debate last week… Now that Romney has been lured in, The president will take him out with a six inch phantom punch…
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
11:50 pm
Biden was a bully?
Good.
I’m sick of these pansy Democrats.
They need to give the neocons a taste of their own FOAD medicine.
LOL!
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
11:51 pm
What manner of braindeadness would cause Romney/Ryan to think that IF they won the election, Democrats would allow any of their legislations to get through the Senate ??? Apparently Romney/Ryan are ignorant of the existence of a litlle Senate procedure called a “Filibuster.”
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
11:53 pm
Biden was a bully?
Good.
Jam–There’s a world of difference between being ass-ertive and being an ass-h*le. Romney was the former in his debate, Biden the latter in his.
They BOTH suck
October 12th, 2012
12:03 am
Bruno
Not really. Romney has switched so many social positions to get the nomination, I am not sure who that guy is. At times he sounds like he would reach across the aisle as he proved in Mass, however at other times he seems to be the same run of the mill partisan working for his party
Obama is average at best.
Reminds me of Bush & Kerry………………
They BOTH suck
October 12th, 2012
12:04 am
Everyone have a great night
@@
October 12th, 2012
12:04 am
Even the left-wing’s talking heads are calling it a draw.
So a Senator (40 yrs) and sitting VP could only muster up a draw against a Congressman who’s served 14 years?
Nuthin’ to brag about fo sho!
ODD OWL
October 12th, 2012
12:15 am
First national debate polls are out… 60 % for Biden, 40 % for Ryan…
Hillbilly D
October 12th, 2012
12:18 am
Congrats to the O’s for tying up the series with the Evil Empire.
Undecided
October 12th, 2012
12:32 am
Well, Ryan came across as a whiney kid who didn’t know many facts and couldn’t support what he believed. Other than that, he did just fine. I liked him as Eddie Munster better than a vp candidate.
Roswell mom
October 12th, 2012
12:36 am
I thought Biden did a good job of supporting women’s rights. Romney/Ryan want to set us back 40 years. That might be fine for families where the husband’s salary provides enough to pay for housing, food and other necessities, but we haven’t lived in that world since the early Reagan years.
Romney man
October 12th, 2012
12:42 am
Is it too late for Romney to switch to Rick Santorum? Santorum might have been able to compete better with Biden. I know the convention is over, but can Romney make that call on his own?
Ter
October 12th, 2012
12:48 am
My son is on his high school debate team and I would be ashamed to see him act as Joe Biden did tonight. He missed an opportunity to show leadership by smirking, laughing out loud while his opponent was speaking, and interrupting. Rather than rely on the strength of his arguments, he resorted to taunting and disrespecting his opponent. What a shame for our children to see this as an example of leadership. Being derisive and insulting just weakened Biden, making him appear less confident, more like a kid saying “nu-uh” to an opposing argument.
An Observer
October 12th, 2012
1:55 am
Biden was the jerk he always is. The problem with Washington is people like Biden who scoff at others and are not interested in a reasonable discussion on the issues. All they want to do is score points for their side and disrespect the other guy.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
October 12th, 2012
2:02 am
Objectively, both did well on substance. Biden tried the 47% argument with little success. Ryan had good counters on many of the facts he relies upon heavily.
The biggest issue was on style. Biden needed to be more assertive to get back his base, but for independents he probably came off as more of an a$$. The CNN poll after the debate gave Ryan a slight edge on who won the debate, but Ryan had a 15-point advantage over Biden in who was more likeable.
That isn’t going to play well with independents.
Overall, entertaining, and slowed the hemmoraging on the Obama campaign, but won’t move the needle much. If at all.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 12th, 2012
6:54 am
CNN POLL: Ryan 48% o’biden 44%…
Phil
October 12th, 2012
7:03 am
Biden is like a cartoon character! Hell no I would trust you!!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 12th, 2012
7:05 am
as the Weekly Standard’s Fred Barnes saw it: “You don’t win a nationally televised debate by being rude and obnoxious. You don’t win by interrupting your opponent time after time after time or by being a blowhard.… Biden’s out of control conduct … will be long remembered — and not favorably.”
Thomas Heyward Jr
October 12th, 2012
7:20 am
For those who value freedom, Byden nor Ryden won.
.
Judge James Gray did…………by a landslide.
And he didn’t even have to show up for this state-sponsored infomercial.
.
lol
k
October 12th, 2012
7:38 am
How important is the debate…. Listen up fools…. only a heartbeat away from being the president….. In my lifetime, I’ve see a VP become president after an assination, a Speaker of the House assume the position, and yet another VP (two different ones) step in as president while the president was incapacitated…. How important is the debate…. Listen up fools…. only a heartbeat away…
Whirled Peas
October 12th, 2012
7:39 am
Joe would be a good replacement for Jerry Springer. His demeanor is certainly not vice-Presidential.
JamVet
October 12th, 2012
7:43 am
Smirking Freddie Barnes can go suck a PNAC Popsicle.
The biggest tool in the GOP’s shed…
James
October 12th, 2012
7:46 am
Joe, laughing is rude.
Del
October 12th, 2012
7:51 am
Biden’s condescending high school harry demeanor isn’t selling very well. Even though VP debates historically never mean much this one may be an exception and give Romney even a bigger bounce building on the one he took away from his debate with Obama.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
7:55 am
may be an exception and give Romney even a bigger bounce
A bit early to be drinking the bourbon?
tiredofIT
October 12th, 2012
7:59 am
Del
October 11th, 2012
7:48 pm
Rafe, of course they’ll accuse Ryan of lying as they have Romney. They have a timing problem, however, because of this inexcusable loss of life in Benghazi.
++
So how do you feel about Bush/Republicans dropping the ball on 911?
Patty
October 12th, 2012
8:04 am
Roswell, Mom, how did Biden do a good job of supporting women’s rights? You mean by taking about who much his faith meant to him, then going against it? If a woman would take control of her body and use the vast number of birth control methods available instead of relying on abortion as birth control, the whole abortion question would be obsolete. But that would mean taking responsibility.
Del
October 12th, 2012
8:07 am
Finn,
Sorry if your guy made an ass out of himself last night but that’s not your fault, so don’t take it personally.
Mark Johnson
October 12th, 2012
8:11 am
Do us all a favor, focus on the policy differences without the spin.
Del
October 12th, 2012
8:17 am
“So how do you feel about Bush/Republicans dropping the ball on 911?”
Do you know who was in office during the first twin tower bombing? How about the USS Cole attack? Who was President when the Sudan offered up bin Ladin?
9-11 was in the planning stages during Clinton’s administration, H.W. Bush, Carter and maybe even as far back as Reagan’s. Our intelligence community and previous administrations didn’t foresee the rise and effectiveness of the radical Islamic jihad. You need to get your facts correct and quit depending on left wing Kool-Aid to make you look informed.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
8:24 am
Del is testy. Must not have been the overwhelming Lyin Ryan victory he/she fantasized about.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
8:35 am
Reporters approached Vice President Joe Biden about his strategy in tonight’s debate against Paul Ryan. The vice president left them grasping: “You ever see me rope-a-dope?”
salon.com
RW-(the original)
October 12th, 2012
8:41 am
I’m pretty much in agreement with Kyle’s final update. A couple of things that struck me were one that I think the boorish behavior of Biden’s was a trial balloon to see if polling showed that Obama can get away with that in the next debate and secondly I was impressed with Ryan’s grasp of foreign affairs when going in he was portrayed to be just the numbers whiz kid for domestic budgeting issues.
adam smith's invisible hand
October 12th, 2012
8:51 am
RW – Ryan’s not a numbers whiz kid. Have you seen his budget? He’s a numbers idiot.
md
October 12th, 2012
8:52 am
“So how do you feel about Bush/Republicans dropping the ball on 911?”
A bit disingenuous to compare specific to general………They knew exactly where Benghazi is, where the Ambassador was, and that he had requested additional security PRIOR to his death……..9/11, much bigger haystack.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
8:55 am
Now does Ryan now have enough credits to earn his “Debate” merit badge? He did good for being up late on a school night.
Del
October 12th, 2012
8:56 am
With a VP only a heartbeat away from the presidency the question becomes who appeared the most presidential last night. On one side you had a grinning buffoon who continually interrupted his opponent in failed attempts to get him off track or change the subject and on the other you had a calm, cool VP candidate who displayed a sound grasp of foreign affairs and domestic issues who articulated in a mature presidential manner. Buffoonery excites many tools for the far- left, so naturally those types will declare Biden the winner.
md
October 12th, 2012
9:00 am
“Now does Ryan now have enough credits to earn his “Debate” merit badge?”
Yes he does……let’s hope he waits awhile to go after his curmudgeon badge that Biden was working on……..
JamVet
October 12th, 2012
9:00 am
My Pet Goat.
He stunk on ice and thousands of innocent Americans were killed due to his incompetence.
But it wasn’t his fault.
It was Jimmy Carter’s.
Who was also responsible for getting Osama bin Laden.
LOL…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
9:10 am
Ever Wonder Where the Extreme Right’s Conspiracy Theories and Paranoid Rumors Get Started? Meet WorldNetDaily
http://www.alternet.org/media/ever-wonder-where-extreme-rights-conspiracy-theories-and-paranoid-rumors-get-started-meet
iggy
October 12th, 2012
9:26 am
Smiling Joe. Atleast he keeps his dentures a nice sparkling white.
Lambeau
October 12th, 2012
9:28 am
Biden was rude, arrogant, and downright disrespectful last night. Made me even more ashamed than I already am to say he’s the VP of the United States. He completely disregarded the intent of a debate and showed he is not willing to at least entertain another view. This just further perpetuates the Obama administrations lack of ability to “reach across the isle” which was so promised in the last election. It makes me sick.
iggy
October 12th, 2012
9:29 am
FL moves to Romney.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Just Say No to New Taxes
October 12th, 2012
9:29 am
Has it occurred to any of you that both the things in the debates last night were liars, thieves, cowards and traitors? Both have had their hands deep into the Washington Pork Pie, both have voted to squander our tax dollars, and both should be sitting in a prison cell rather than on national tv.
iggy
October 12th, 2012
9:32 am
EU get peace prize? Even more staggering than Obama getting peace prize.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
9:47 am
I see Oscar the Grouch is up and running his mouth this morning after his all night drinking binge.
He’s got the name calling and insults in play already. Still waiting for the Socialist slogans and the “unfit to lead” repetitive comments from the guy who is unfit to vote.
ROTFLMFAO
October 12th, 2012
9:49 am
Gravy Train,
Get serious!!! In 1960 many though that Kennedy’s Catholic religion would make him a pawn for the Pope – but that didn’t happen. And Romney’s Mormon religion won’t make him subservient to the “Mormon Cult”, either.
But since you are obviously a religious bigot, nothing I say, or anyone else says, will convince you otherwise.
It’s sad when some people can’t put their bigotry aside – to include white bigots’ opinions about a black President.
P.S. I’m a WASP Republican.
MarkV
October 12th, 2012
10:02 am
Biden disrespectful? Of what? Should he have been respectful of Ryan’s distortions of facts, ridiculous accusations, inability to support his assertions? Biden was not disrespectful of Ryan as a person, but was disrespectful of his positions – as he should have been.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
10:03 am
On Biden’s perfomance:
This is like the Avengers, when the Hulk grabbed Loki and smashed him on the floor.”
hehehe
Magic01
October 12th, 2012
10:03 am
Ok, this ridiculous how people Judge folks……During the Presidential Debate, Romney was cutting the moderator off and over talking out of turn, specifically, when Obama was speaking……It was said that he was “aggressive”…..That’s BS. That was “RUDE” and he showed no self-control. Now people want to say it was rude of Biden to “laugh” during a debate. Are you kidding me?? When someone is telling a bold face LIE….all you can do is laugh. I am glad all Biden did was laugh. Anyhow, they should not have put that adolescent up against his elder to get spanked!!!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
10:06 am
Magic01, I suggest you look up the difference between the words “assertive” and “rude”.
In case you didn’t know, when you feel someone is telling a lie during a debate, you get the chance to debunk that lie on your next turn (see, Romney, 1st Presidential debate). Laughing is NOT a recognized rebuttal form in intelligent debate.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
10:07 am
I haven’t seen a single, solitary post of depth from the liberals on this blog.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
10:08 am
look up the difference between the words “assertive” and “rude”.
Oh, go kick rocks.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
10:10 am
posting in depth about what, Tiberius? This blog thread is stale. There is something green and crusty along its edge. Stick a fork in it and turn it over.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
10:15 am
Why am I not surprised you don’t recognize a lack of depth in posts, Finn?
southpaw
October 12th, 2012
10:24 am
k @7:38 am
Who were the Speaker who stepped up and the President who couldn’t do the job? Just curious.
independent thinker
October 12th, 2012
10:25 am
Thank you Gravy train on that most enlightening article about Romney and Mormon religious beliefs about taking over the government , Lyin Ryan made it clear that his Catholic religious beliefs make him a Theocrat along with his buddy Todd Aiken and that nut job congressman from Georgia and ole Michelle to name a few.
Gravy Train 6:15 pm—October 11:
“A little pre-debate reading for those weary of LDS political intentions
SEE http://www.salon.com/2012/01/29/mitt_and_the_white_horse_prophecy“”"
Here is the part from Gravy Train’s cite last night I like the best:
“”"”"”"”"”"”"Called a “militant millennial movement” by renowned Mormon historian David L. Bigler, Mormonism’s founding theology was based upon a literal takeover of the U.S. government. In light of the theology and divine prophecies of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, unamended by the LDS hierarchy, it would seem that the office of the American presidency is the ultimate ecclesiastical position to which a Mormon leader might aspire. So it is not the LDS cosmology that is relevant to Romney’s candidacy, but whether devout 21stcentury Mormons like Romney believe that the American presidency is also a theological position.
Since his first campaign in 2008, Romney has attempted to keep debate about his religion out of the political discourse. The issue is not whether there is a religious test for political office; the Constitution prohibits it. Instead, the question is whether, past all of the flip-flops on virtually every policy, he has an underlying religious conception of the presidency and the American government. At the recent GOP presidential debate in Florida, Romney professed that the Declaration of Independence is a theological document, not specific to the rebellious 13 colonies, but establishing a covenant “between God and man.” Which would suggest that Mitt Romney views the American presidency as a theological office.”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”
Same comment Mitt made at Colorado debate about god given rights forming the Constitution.
Which God Bishop Mitt??? And why will you not answer questions about Joseph Smith you’re professed mentor and your faith like both Biden and Ryan did last night.?????????
Of course if you are one of the cons who believes we have a practicing Muslim in the White House none of this matters.
PROUD NAVY VET
October 12th, 2012
10:26 am
Who would buy a car from anyone who when asked what the warranty is and the salesman says oh, it’s covered, don’t worry. If the President were to say that about any of his plans, what would the right say? They would go through the roof. All of the independent experts say there is not enough information to make an informed assessment. It’s just that simple. If my home mortgage deduction is taken away, I will be super pi**ed!! Seriously, it only makes common sense to have all of the facts so an informed decision can be made. Any deal made in any form of business, both parties has to know what they are entering into. Even the right will be upset if that deduction is lost. I admitted the President embellished on some points during the debate. Yesterday I asked for anyone on the right to admit Gov. Romey embellished also. No takers. We as Americans have to tell the truth, even when our choices don’t. They ALL lie. Again, just one Romney supporter say the Gov. did not tell the truth in some of the statements he made. I feel the VP debate was good. Both men held their own, I call it a draw. Ryan is a smart guy, Biden is also.
iggy
October 12th, 2012
10:27 am
More yummy goodness. Soon the swing States will begin to fall like dominos into the Romney/Ryan basket.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/willis-report/blog/2012/10/11/computer-predicts-election
Hillbilly D
October 12th, 2012
10:43 am
The problem with political “debates” at the national level is that the candidates are preaching to the converted. The comments here back that up. The campaign has been going on for 3 1/2 years, so how anybody could be “undecided” at this point, is beyond me anyway.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
October 12th, 2012
10:46 am
Here is the piece de resistance:
These people are my mom and dad — the people I grew up with, my neighbors. They pay more effective tax than Governor Romney pays in his federal income tax. They are elderly people who in fact are living off of Social Security. They are veterans and people fighting in Afghanistan right now who are, quote, “not paying any tax.”
I’ve had it up to here with this notion that 47 percent — it’s about time they take some responsibility here. And instead of signing pledges to Grover Norquist not to ask the wealthiest among us to contribute to bring back the middle class, they should be signing a pledge saying to the middle class we’re going to level the playing field; we’re going to give you a fair shot again; we are going to not repeat the mistakes we made in the past by having a different set of rules for Wall Street and Main Street, making sure that we continue to hemorrhage these tax cuts for the super wealthy.
~Joe “Roppin’ & Doppin’” Biden
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
10:48 am
Perhaps, Navy Vet, instead of issuing a blanket “he lied” statement, you might try to articulate a particular lie or two you claim Romney made, and see if we buy it.
However, based on your earlier “Romney cheated with notes” post, you really need to work harder to convince us that you have any credibility.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
10:50 am
I see that “independent” “thinker” (two words that should never be used in conjunction with his posts) has joined the Gravy Train religious bigot bandwagon.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
11:02 am
Finn, your “piece de resistance” only plays to the base (meaning you).
People with critical thinking skills know that Romney wasn’t speaking about what Smilin’ Joe was speaking about. We know Romney was referencing the 47% of people who will vote for Obama no matter what – because he’s a Democrat, he’s black, or yes, because he’ll make sure the social programs many of your base feel are mandatory for government to issue, and people to take advantage of continue or expand.
It was an inarticulate way of saying that he’s never going to reach those people with ANY argument whatsoever. And he’s 100% correct in that regard.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
October 12th, 2012
11:13 am
What I took away from this “debate”.
Biden showed the most disrespect and rude behavior, I ever remember seeing from a Vice President.
The Dems do not think we are in a financial crunch, no need for any spending reforms or entitlement reforms, just keep on keeping on, things are getting better.
After two debates neither Barry nor Joe has mentioned anything they want to accomplish in a second term or any plans they hope to implement, other than raising taxes on the rich.
Their plans to raise taxes on the rich has nothing to do with budgets or deficits, it is just their effort to impose their version of “fairness” on America. They do not deny the charges that the amount raised from the tax increase on the wealthy is not going to significantly cut the deficit.
That Joe Biden has serious self control and self esteem issues. I would be very fearful of him as a possible President.
Drudge
October 12th, 2012
11:25 am
Someone forgot to tell Biden that he wasn’t arguing in Trump’s boardroom on Celebrity Apprentice.
Old Timer
October 12th, 2012
11:27 am
For Biden civility is dead.
I demand to see Cheesy Grits Birth Certificate- Long Form Please
October 12th, 2012
11:32 am
Romney didn’t flip on abortion……all he said was he had no plans to offer legislation to change the status quo, but at the same time he acknowledged he is still anti-abortion.
Then he said basically the exact opposite hours later.
PROUD NAVY VET
October 12th, 2012
11:34 am
Tiberius,
1. “My health plan will cover pre-existing.”
2. An ‘Unelected Board’ Controlling Your Health Care- as the Associated Press points out , the board that is tasked with bringing down Medicare costs is prohibited from “rationing care, shifting costs to retirees, restricting benefits or raising the Medicare eligibility age. So the board doesn’t have the power to dictate to doctors what treatments they can prescribe.” This Romney claim also hearkened back to Sarah Palin’s lie that Obamacare created “death panels,” which was a straight up lie.
3.. A Bipartisan Record -Romney referred to his alleged “bipartisan” record in Massachusetts as governor during the debate. But what’s the real story on this? ABC News calls the claim “not quite factual.” Indeed: Romney’s health care plan was enacted with the help of a Democratic legislature. But in general, the body was “frustrated” with Romney “because he wanted to govern like a ‘CEO’ and ‘didn’t pay heed to the legislature and they resented that,’” according to the Massachusetts Taxpayer Foundation’s Michael Widmer.
4.Dodd-Frank Labels Banks as ‘Too Big to Fail’-
One contrast between the candidates that emerged during the debate was over Dodd-Frank, the weak Wall Street reforms and regulations passed after the 2008 financial collapse. Romney wants to repeal Dodd-Frank, and part of the reason why is his claim that the bill designates banks as “too big to fail” and therefore gives them “a blank check.” But as ThinkProgress notes, this is far from the truth: “the law merely says that the biggest, systemically risky banks need to abide by more stringent regulations . If those banks fail, they will be unwound by a new process in the Dodd-Frank law that protects taxpayers from having to pony up for a bailout.”
5. The Failure of the Obama Economy -Romney hammered Obama on the economy’s performance over the past four years. One claim Romney made was this: “[We have] 23 million people out of work…The proof of that is that 50 percent of college graduates this year can’t find work.”
But here’s the AP breakdown of the facts on this claim: “The number of unemployed is 12.5 million, not 23 million. Romney was also counting 8 million people who are working part time but would like a full-time job and 2.6 million who have stopped looking for work, either because they are discouraged or because they are going back to school or for other reasons.”
And on the college graduate claim, Romney was also wrong. Back to the AP: “A Northeastern University analysis for The Associated Press found that a quarter of graduates were probably unemployed and another quarter were underemployed, which means working in jobs that didn’t make full use of their skills or experience.”
6. No Tax Cuts for the Rich
To fend off the perception that he’s only concerned about the wealthy, Romney made sure to emphasize that his economic plan would not lower tax rates on rich people.
Think Progress has the details on that claim: “If Romney were to actually implement his plan to reduce tax rates by 20 percent while eliminating tax deductions in order to pay for it, taxpayers with more than $200,000 would certainly see a tax cut. But everyone else — 95 percent of Americans —will see their taxes increase.”
This information listed contains cites as to who said it was untrue. Again, President Obama has some problems also.
If you like, I have more.
TBone
October 12th, 2012
11:45 am
Biden just used the debate tactic used by many open minded liberals, yell and interupt. He showed himself as not only devoid of ideas but a rude and obnoxious angry man. Vote for the MORMON.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 12th, 2012
11:50 am
Jamvet@9:00 – “Who is responsible for getting Bin Laden”? Even a blind squirrel can find an acorn every once in a while!
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
11:53 am
Tiberius, stop pulling “tails” and get with some facts! If a man claims to be a priest of a religious cult, any reasonable man will examine that cult. If you don’t like it, stop letting your plutocrat masters push a cult member on America. I think Biden did great in acknowledging that his personal beliefs don’t apply to everyone else. Why won’t Willard do the same?
TBone
October 12th, 2012
11:54 am
And I heard that sometimes those squirrels can find their nuts!
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
11:55 am
Hey Tom: So Why couldn’t W find him then?
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
11:56 am
I already know why W couldn’t find his own. There were never any there to begin with.
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
11:58 am
Much like Saddam’s vaunted WMD’s! LOL Look at the sheep scramble to spin Boy Blunder in a positive light! Keep it coming chumps, I love the laughs.
PROUD NAVY VET
October 12th, 2012
12:00 pm
Tiberius,
I truly do my best to be civil and not demean anyone here because I feel that’s the main reason the country is so split. It would be wonderful if every day people that you may talk with if you call a business or may meet at the mall. Why do you have such a superior attitude? You really come off as if your better and smarter then anyone else that post here. Your not. Plain and simple. You are not. I feel you’ve missed your calling. You would do well to send Rush a resume’. Wht do you try to insult everyone who has a different outlook then you? I worked at a major telcom in the southeast for 27 years and retired. There was a mnagement team in place that was older. There was so much wisdom displayed by senior management. As a new younger manager, I had the honor of learning respect and everyone has value. I was also taught to be very careful. Who you meet on the way up, you’ll see again on the way down. In other words RESPECT all people. I accepted a job two years ago with the telcom that bought out my old company. The average manager at that company is around 33. I quit. The management team there talks and acts a lot like you. Rude, snobby and think that nobody knows more then they do. I would hazard a guess that your in your early to mid 30’s most likely you have a graduate degree and think you’re the smartest one in the room. You very well may be. I could also bet the house on this. There are people just waiting for you to screw up and when you do, they will flame your butt in just the way you deserve. Didn’t your dad and mom teach you anything at all about how to treat people? I have a feeling, you will learn life lessons soon, and it will be much deserved.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
12:01 pm
OK, Proud Navy Vet, you’ve got the DNC talking points down pat, but why is it that you don’t do your own research (for one) and more importantly, pay attention to what was said instead of what you wanted to hear?
“1. “My health plan will cover pre-existing.”
It will. You may not like the extent to which it does, but it does.
“2. An ‘Unelected Board’ Controlling Your Health Care- as the Associated Press points out , the board that is tasked with bringing down Medicare costs is prohibited from “rationing care, shifting costs to retirees, restricting benefits or raising the Medicare eligibility age. So the board doesn’t have the power to dictate to doctors what treatments they can prescribe.”
When you can’t defend the program, change the terminology to make your case. No one (including Romney) spoke about rationing care or “death panels”. The board get to decide what procedures ARE PAID FOR AND HOW MUCH IS PAID, not treatment prescribed.
“3.. A Bipartisan Record -Romney referred to his alleged “bipartisan” record in Massachusetts as governor during the debate. But what’s the real story on this?”
Here’s the real story, Navy Vet. He had a Democrat legislature that didn’t like his style Boo frikkin’ hoo. But ABC News focused on that, instead of the actual record he compiled: Balanced budgets. Shifted taxes to fees so that the people who actually used the services paid for them, not taxpayers who didn’t use the services. Lowered unemployment to virtual full employment. Maintained an excellent education system. Passed Romneycare. Did it ALL with a legislature that was 87% (or worse) far-left Democrat-controlled. Wonder why ABC News didn’t bother with this stuff?
“4.Dodd-Frank Labels Banks as ‘Too Big to Fail’-”
ThinkProgress as your financial source, Navy Vet? Really? Why don’t you just us ea quote from Stephanie Cutter if you want the Obama campaign’s take on something. Try harder, son.
“5. The Failure of the Obama Economy -Romney hammered Obama on the economy’s performance over the past four years. One claim Romney made was this: “[We have] 23 million people out of work…The proof of that is that 50 percent of college graduates this year can’t find work.”
But here’s the AP breakdown of the facts on this claim: “The number of unemployed is 12.5 million, not 23 million.”
Yeah, the under-employed should be in that figure, as should the millions who have simply given up looking for work. The 23 million is fully accurate.
“6. No Tax Cuts for the Rich ”
Stay away from the ThinkProgress crack pipe, Navy Vet. When you lower the tax rate for the wealthy, and get rid of the tax loopholes they enjoy, they end up paying the same effective tax amount as before, therefore no tax cuts for the rich. Now, will it be a 20% rate cut? Who knows. That’s Romney’s goal. But as he stated during the debate, he’d reduce the rates according to the loopholes and deductions being eliminated – his goal is to make the rate cut revenue neutral – and the end result will be up to Congress as to what they will agree with.
So nice try, Navy Vet, but a huge failure on your part. Do some research by staying away from the biased sources you currently use and look at BOTH sides, or find an objective one if you can.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 12th, 2012
12:06 pm
Two thoughts to express – (1) Too much on foreign issues, abortion, social issues and not enough on jobs, economy, medicare, & Social Security. Was not really what voters were that interested in. Who picks these moderators? She(lefty) was trying to get the female vote back to Obama by constantly talking about abortion, since Romney had made significant gains with female voters. Also it is alledged,Obama attended her wedding and was seen at Biden’s house several months ago(for reasons yet unknown). (2) If Romney/Ryan is elected, I will bet you they will not refer to Obama’s administration as a excuse for not accomplishing their goals.I’m sick and tired of constantly hearing Obama say it’s Bush’s fault. They will be honest to the public and blame no one except themselves if failure occurs? But I assume that is the difference between the two parties, one is Democrats and the other is real Americans!!
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
12:09 pm
“Why do you have such a superior attitude? You really come off as if your better and smarter then anyone else that post here. Your not. ”
Sorry, but while we are all created equal, some of us advance more than others. I have. Deal with it.
“I would hazard a guess that your in your early to mid 30’s most likely you have a graduate degree and think you’re the smartest one in the room. You very well may be. I could also bet the house on this.”
And as you’ve been so wrong on your posts, you’re wrong here as well. I’m turning 56 later this year, and am voluntarily retired. I work part time just to keep busy and meet people. I don’t have a graduate degree, but a lifetime of experience in many different environments dealing with facts, data, people and their responses.
And in most cases, I AM the smartest one in the room, but I am always willing to be educated by those who prove they know more than me. On this blog, that doesn’t happen every often. Again, deal with it.
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
12:10 pm
Tibi, you need to understand that Willard has no right, Constitutionally or otherwise, to force the teachings of Joseph Smith on America. If he personally, or you, feel that abortion is wrong, then don’t get an abortion. If you or he feels that gay marriage is wrong, then don’t marry a gay person. I will not stand by and say nothing when a cult is trying to hijack our government. I’m sorry that you can’t see that, publicly anyway. If you are as impartial as you think you are, this should be a no brainer. Unfortunately, you feign neutrality for appearances sake only. Just like Willard.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
12:11 pm
Oh, and my Mom and Dad taught me to never be ashamed of being right about anything.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)
October 12th, 2012
12:12 pm
Gravy Train – Shouldn’t you be over at Jay Bird’s liberal blog at the rock quarry. I hope Obama chooses to thrown Hilliary under the bus for the terrorist attack, would love to hear what Bill Clinton would say about him then.
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
12:22 pm
Navy Vet: You need to understand a few things about Tibi. First, he is a magic underwear wearer. Secon, he is an old, white, xenophobe and possibly a closeted Log Cabin Republican. He likes to sit on his high horse and demean anyone who doesn’t agree with his troglodyte mentality.
Also, I want to thank you for your service. My grandfather was a Navy man too. He was on the ship that the treaty with Japan was signed on. He also carried Japanese shrapnel around in his body for the rest of his life. Not once did he tell me that war is the best option. Men that have been there have a much better understanding than a man who thinks riding around Paris selling magic underwear is the equivalent of sitting in a fox hole in Vietnam.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
12:23 pm
“Tibi, you need to understand that Willard has no right, Constitutionally or otherwise, to force the teachings of Joseph Smith on America.”
Gee, Gravy Train, I did not know that . . .
You are SUCH an idiot.
Now, please tell me why Mitt Romney would be any more capable of doing that than Jack Kennedy was in forcing the teachings of the Pope on America.
But unlike you, I know that in his entire public life, he hasn’t shown one iota of the behavior of which you speak. In fact, his religion is a far more personal and private matter to him than many people in public office today. Based on your argument about abortion and gay marriage, any Baptist, Catholic, Mormon or Muslim would be unqualified to serve as President due to their religious beliefs, yet I don’t see you disparaging them s you do the Mormon faith.
You’re a religious bigot, plain and simple.
btw, I agree with your positions on abortion and gay marriage (and have disagreed with my conservatives on this blog vociferously), but neither of them are as important as a free economy and a smaller overall government in size and scope. Since I’m neither gay nor have the ability to father any more children, the social issues are not as important to me as the economy and national security, but I will never denigrate a religion simply because I disagree with it’s tenets.
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
12:31 pm
Men like Kyle, Tibi, Willard and Boy Blunder love to pound their chests and beat the war drums. Only problem is, when the bullets start flying, they run and hide. Definitely not leadership material.
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
12:38 pm
For the last time, Tibi. Christianity is a religion. Mormonism is a cult. President Kennedy, just like Vice President Joe Biden did last night, made it clear that personal beliefs are not for everyone. Willard has yet to clarify this. He is not just a “mormon” he is a priest of the cult. He contributes hundreds of millions of dollars to the cult and calls it “charitable.” So, when the Pope runs for president, your comparisons would be valid. Until then, you are stuck with Willard. Willard remains quiet on his role in the cult because he’s hoping that we will not notice it. He doesn’t want to talk about his cult in depth because he would lose millions of votes if he did. Apparently, you are not as smart as you think.
PROUD NAVY VET
October 12th, 2012
12:43 pm
Most of the time, A person who is confident with who they are does not have to get up on their soap box and tell everyone how great or how smart they are. I said I would bet you were… Ok, I was wrong. No big deal, not the first time, won’t be the last. Seriously, if your that smart, cool. Congrats. That and a buck gets you a coffee at McD’s. My point is this, lighten up. If you were all that great, you’d be in DC running sh*t. but your not. When you don’t have to prove your right and others do it for you, that speaks volumes. I guess your smarter then all of those fact checkers? The fact that you use the screen name Tiberius tells us a lot about you. Delusions of grandeur. Go ahead and give your reply. Because I don’t have the desire to keep this up. You know the old saying “The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool” Shakespeare “I’m done wit dis guy” Joe Pesci My Cousin Vinny
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
12:45 pm
“Only problem is, when the bullets start flying, they run and hide.”
Please detail the military experience of Obama and Biden for us, will ya, Gravy? I served in the USAF. How about you?
“Definitely not leadership material.”
You mean like Biden being the ONLY person in the WH Situation Room to advocate against getting Bin Laden?
“Christianity is a religion. Mormonism is a cult. ”
Your opinion, not matter how wrong, is noted.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
October 12th, 2012
12:48 pm
“Most of the time, A person who is confident with who they are does not have to get up on their soap box and tell everyone how great or how smart they are.”
I don’t usually, Navy Vet, but since you brought it up I thought I’d clarify for you.
“If you were all that great, you’d be in DC running sh*t.”
Sorry, but I’m much better suited for benevolent dictator, as I can’t stand having to deal with those of a lesser talent.
“I guess your smarter then all of those fact checkers?”
Yes, but more importantly, I’m not biased as they are.
PROUD NAVY VET
October 12th, 2012
12:59 pm
Gravy Train, I like you.
TBone
October 12th, 2012
1:49 pm
Gravy Boat … You need to get some professional help for that Bush Derangement Syndrome of yours. I think after this much time it’s a little pathetic that you don’t have anything else. Get creative.
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
2:23 pm
Thank you, PNV. You watch my back and I’ll watch yours.
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
2:26 pm
I’ll compare ASVAB scores anytime you want, Tibi. Unfortunately, I could not pass the physical. That was the only thing stopping me from watching people like you swabbing heads while people like fly the jets.
Gravy Train
October 12th, 2012
2:28 pm
TBone, I think your party needs some professional help because they’re still trying to push the same W policies even though they’ve been proven disastrous. Learn from history or you’re doomed to repeat it, chump.
TBone
October 12th, 2012
2:49 pm
Gravy Boat …You mean kind of like all of the policies your messiah adopted from the the dreaded W. Why are they called the Bush tax cuts when Obasma re-adopted and took ownership? Is Gitmo still functioning? Does it make you feel all better to call people names?