VP debate live thread: Biden vs. Ryan
FINAL UPDATE: As predicted, this debate won’t end up mattering very much. Each base will be pleased with its candidate and bewildered anyone could think much of the other guy, but I can’t imagine undecideds picking Obama or Romney based on tonight.
***
UPDATE at 9:50: The story of this debate so far is Biden’s rude and erratic behavior — interrupting Ryan repeatedly and weirdly laughing throughout Ryan’s remarks. As I said before, the obvious strategy is to portray Ryan, and by extension Romney, as untrustworthy. But there’s enough in his own remarks — his claim that no Democrats support Medicare premium support, for example — that should be howled down by the fact checkers that it isn’t going to work.
It will be interesting to see how well Ryan’s barrage of data and statistics goes over. Biden has stuck with one or two figures per answer; even though they’ve often been wrong, out of date, or misleading, the simplicity might work better. We shall see.
***
UPDATE at 9:20: Biden is doubling down on the idea the GOP candidates don’t tell the truth: “malarkey” and “incredible” are the words he uses to open his initial responses to Ryan’s comments. But it seems to me he left himself very much open to the fact checkers with his comment that there were no requests for additional security in Benghazi — there’s already been sworn testimony to the contrary before Congress.
That’s about all Biden said about Libya, as he quickly changed the subject to Iraq and bin Laden. Compared to Ryan’s detailed breakdown of what went wrong in Benghazi, I’m guessing that didn’t go over well with viewers.
***
ORIGINAL POST:
I’ll be updating this post periodically during tonight’s debate between Vice President Joe Biden and his would-be successor, Paul Ryan. I’ll also be tweeting my thoughts, and I encourage you to follow them, too.
On Monday, I wrote about the expectations factor in last week’s first presidential debate. I think that could play out the opposite way tonight: Republicans, in particular, are positively giddy about the prospect the well-spoken Ryan will tear the gaffe-prone Biden to shreds. But this ignores the fact Biden has more experience in this type of setting and a demeanor that could translate well to the viewership. Ryan is an unknown quality as far as debates go, though he’s proven to be effective at retail politics.
And there’s the question of how much tonight will matter, anyway. Who remembers the Dick Cheney-John Edwards debate in 2004? The Cheney-Lieberman debate in 2000? Lloyd Bentsen tore Dan Quayle a new one in 1988, while Quayle performed better than expected against Al Gore in 1992 — and yet neither Michael Dukakis nor George H.W. Bush won their respective races.
A Ryan win could keep momentum on the GOP’s side, while a Biden win could be used to spark an “Obama comeback” story. Would either development outlive next Tuesday’s Round 2 between President Obama and Mitt Romney? I doubt it.
But hey: It will, no doubt, be fun to watch and discuss.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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234 comments Add your comment
Hillbilly D
October 11th, 2012
10:42 pm
All the Founding Fathers Presidents were Deists…
All Founding Fathers weren’t anything. They were a varied group of people, some Christians, some Deists and some probably didn’t have any beliefs at all.
And y’all do know that Gainesville has already had a Mormon mayor and the world didn’t come to an end? Matter of fact, hardly anybody even noticed.
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
10:44 pm
Can’t say I’m impressed with either of them.
Not a knockout either way, md. Ryan came across as a little bit young and inexperienced, Biden came across as a rude old man who thinks shouting down your opponent = victory.
I have to give the edge to Ryan for his closing statement, however. Even though it came across as totally rehearsed, I appreciated his appeal to character. I believed him when he said that he and Romney won’t duck the tough issues, and certainly won’t spend the next 4 years blaming others.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:44 pm
Ah, the dummycrat position, now I get it. We didn’t do it. We aren’t responsible for it. Not our problem. He did it, whoever he is. Pass the buck. But we’ll get to the bottom, uh huh, wink, wink. I didn’t say I’d get to the bottom of it, he did. Why didn’t you get to the bottom of it, he? Who’s on first?
Del
October 11th, 2012
10:45 pm
Biden was the smiling buffoon he typically is in any venue. One heart beat away. Good job Ryan.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:46 pm
Never has so much blame been passed around by so few people.
Del
October 11th, 2012
10:48 pm
Oddly, the Owl knows little about the faith of the founding fathers.
Patty
October 11th, 2012
10:52 pm
You can’t yell about the separation of church and state, then tell people not to vote for Romney because he’s Mormon and therefore not a Christian. That’s called ‘talking out of both sides of your mouth.’
md
October 11th, 2012
10:54 pm
Bruno……I’m guessing we aren’t the only ones that noticed Biden appeared to be trying to bully Ryan……and it probably worked just fine for his base…….but the base weren’t the ones he needed to win over.
I thought ryan was a bit slow on getting his numbers out there…..he knows his stuff, he just didn’t convey it too well in that setting.
And unlike some of the “takers” yelling up the page, I’m not rich but I’m also not full of envy and realize that we ALL got tax cuts. Only the morally bankrupt vote for others to give theirs back without offering up their own………..we ALL live here and we ALL make choices that put us where we are.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:58 pm
The rich, the elite and their lap dog corporate bosses are NOT job creators… If they created jobs, we would not have a 7.1 unemployment rate, which has gone down the last four years from a high of 12 % under the Bush/Cheney economic meltdown.. Corporations like Bain Capital outsource jobs from America and create jobs in China, India and Mexico.. The Republicans filibustered 79 Democrat bills, half of them jobs bills… So please, Don’t insult my intelligence again with the B.S… President Eisenhowser said about the neo-con Republicans back in 1954, who craved getting rid of Social security, Unions etc and spend all the money on the military industrial complex; “They’re Stupid.”
W. Jackson
October 11th, 2012
11:00 pm
Imagery is very crucial in modern media driven politics. Coming across as your favorite uncle, smiling and telling you things will be alright, was one of the driving forces behind Ronald Reagan’s appeal that crossed the isle to a dissatisfied Democratic voter base.
Yes, Biden came across as relaxed, confident and knowledgeable (as long as you don’t check his facts too closely). He also came across like a life long career politician, one of the people who spent decades creating the mess we’re in. In other words, not your favorite uncle but the smiling used car salesman who sold you a lemon and wants to sell you another.
Biden’s performance will satisfy the Democrats whose minds will never be changed, however, it has done nothing to reassure many questioning Democrats…anymore than Carter did.
In the end, the debate went to Biden, the win went to Ryan.
md
October 11th, 2012
11:02 pm
I thought one had to have intelligence before it could be insulted.
Did I say that out loud?? Shame on me…..
md
October 11th, 2012
11:05 pm
For those that actually have some sense, one might understand what that 2T in corp profits sitting offshore could do for our economy and which party is keeping it offshore……but only for those that actually have a clue.
The angel Moroni
October 11th, 2012
11:06 pm
Somebody get Todd Akin on the phone. I want to know whether what Biden did to Ryan was a “legitimate” rape or just one of those other types of rape. Ryan was owned.
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
11:07 pm
Look at these sheep trying to spin Boy Blunder, Lyin’ Ryan. Where’s Kyle? Come on out and defend the indefensible. Are you getting a pair of magic underwear out of this deal? That’s the least Willard should do for your brave attempt at pushing these clowns on America. Nobody wants a whiny little lap dog in the Oval Office.
md
October 11th, 2012
11:08 pm
The stupid ones are the ones that think Social Security is/was a retirement program………
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
11:08 pm
BOOM!
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
11:09 pm
And unlike some of the “takers” yelling up the page, I’m not rich but I’m also not full of envy and realize that we ALL got tax cuts. Only the morally bankrupt vote for others to give theirs back without offering up their own………..we ALL live here and we ALL make choices that put us where we are.
Virtually every conservative who posts here supports a shared sacrifice, while every Lib wants to hang the recovery on the “rich”. The term “morally bankrupt” isn’t strong enough to describe my feelings toward those who want others to pay their way. We’re all in this thing together, one way or another.
md
October 11th, 2012
11:09 pm
Magic underwear? A bit juvenile don’t you think?
MarkV
October 11th, 2012
11:10 pm
The Libya issue – a minor issue in terms of the overall foreign policy, was the only one Ryan can find some solace in. Biden killed him on taxes, entitlements, Afghanistan.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
11:11 pm
The Republicans have ran up a $13 trillion dollars debt… Pay your debt… Don’t talk about it, pay it off… The reckless Republicans keep attempting to dump their $13 trillion dollars debt at the doorstep of the Democrats… We Democrats are not going to pay one dime of you Republican’s $13 trillion dollars debt… You ran up the debt with tax cuts for the rich… Now you must tax the rich and non rich Republicans and pay down your debt… So please, don’t bring you debt problems to Democrats doorsteps… Pay your bills…
They BOTH suck
October 11th, 2012
11:12 pm
“while every Lib wants to hang the recovery on the “rich”. ”
I will call lie on that, but also say whats up?
I have on numerous occasions advocating the phasing in of the rates during the Clinton years as well as phasing out or changing the EITC.
But your post did make a great soundbite
md
October 11th, 2012
11:13 pm
“Biden killed him on taxes, entitlements, Afghanistan.”
Highly debatable……for another time.
Out…..
The angel Moroni
October 11th, 2012
11:14 pm
md- you’re right about Social Security not being a retirement program. A retirement program is either a pension or personal savings invested in a balanced portfolio. Only an idiot would suggest that for Social Security.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
11:17 pm
The first step to knowing wisdom is knowing your ignorance…
Gb nickles
October 11th, 2012
11:17 pm
The Democratic Party will be cut by half in 20 years. The democratic Party supports gay marriage 2 people that can not reproduce. The democratic party support abortion they will be killing future democrats Oboma care will kill off seniors before their time The democratic party will implode from within.
The angel Moroni
October 11th, 2012
11:17 pm
Wearing magic underwear is a bit juvenile. Talking about people who believe in it and make it part of their daily lives is a valid discussion point.
md
October 11th, 2012
11:18 pm
SS, like welfare, was designed as a safety net program……..never as a lifestyle. If one looks at either as a long term solution one will most likely be highly disappointed.
md
October 11th, 2012
11:18 pm
Now I’m out….
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
11:18 pm
Republicans bring about their own undoing through their tongues…
Patty
October 11th, 2012
11:19 pm
ODD OWL, glad to know you finally recognize your own ignorance.
@@
October 11th, 2012
11:21 pm
Pretty much a draw in my opinion.
Joe laughing while Ryan talked about the Benghazi attack was DEFINITELY out of line.
I’ve never witnessed condescension from an average Joe. Maybe Joe’s below average?
schnirt
Gb nickles
October 11th, 2012
11:28 pm
Laughing Joe how rude!!!!!!
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
11:28 pm
I have on numerous occasions advocating the phasing in of the rates during the Clinton years as well as phasing out or changing the EITC.
TBS–In case you missed it, the Lefties want the Clinton era tax rates restored only for the high earners, while keeping the lowered rates for everyone else.
Plus, I thought that your moniker implied that you are a moderate……
P.S. Send my $100 to Doctors Without Borders and Operation Smile, my two favorite charities.
Michael H. Smith
October 11th, 2012
11:34 pm
“The story of this debate so far is Biden’s rude and erratic behavior”
Rude and erratic behavior is a life long trait of Mr. Biden’s. Fortunately more people probably watched this debate on a television rather than listened to it on a radio, Kyle.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
11:37 pm
V.P. Biden wiped the floor with that inexperienced youngster, Rand Ryan…
They BOTH suck
October 11th, 2012
11:40 pm
Bruno
Never said I didn’t lean left. I just think they both suck at governing. You never read where I said anything good about Pelosi or Reid in terms of how they ran the show.
Michael H. Smith
October 11th, 2012
11:42 pm
The Benghazi attack was a MAJOR FAILURE for obama and biden. Now all they can do is try to cover up, laugh it off and lie.
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
11:43 pm
You never read where I said anything good about Pelosi or Reid in terms of how they ran the show.
Do you trust Ryan and Romney when they say they will seek bipartisan input for their policies??
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
11:45 pm
You Republicans seem unaware of the fact that President Obama lured Mittens Romney into a trap and set him up with his “rope-a-dope” tactic in the debate last week… Now that Romney has been lured in, The president will take him out with a six inch phantom punch…
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
11:50 pm
Biden was a bully?
Good.
I’m sick of these pansy Democrats.
They need to give the neocons a taste of their own FOAD medicine.
LOL!
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
11:51 pm
What manner of braindeadness would cause Romney/Ryan to think that IF they won the election, Democrats would allow any of their legislations to get through the Senate ??? Apparently Romney/Ryan are ignorant of the existence of a litlle Senate procedure called a “Filibuster.”
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
11:53 pm
Biden was a bully?
Good.
Jam–There’s a world of difference between being ass-ertive and being an ass-h*le. Romney was the former in his debate, Biden the latter in his.
They BOTH suck
October 12th, 2012
12:03 am
Bruno
Not really. Romney has switched so many social positions to get the nomination, I am not sure who that guy is. At times he sounds like he would reach across the aisle as he proved in Mass, however at other times he seems to be the same run of the mill partisan working for his party
Obama is average at best.
Reminds me of Bush & Kerry………………
They BOTH suck
October 12th, 2012
12:04 am
Everyone have a great night
@@
October 12th, 2012
12:04 am
Even the left-wing’s talking heads are calling it a draw.
So a Senator (40 yrs) and sitting VP could only muster up a draw against a Congressman who’s served 14 years?
Nuthin’ to brag about fo sho!
ODD OWL
October 12th, 2012
12:15 am
First national debate polls are out… 60 % for Biden, 40 % for Ryan…
Hillbilly D
October 12th, 2012
12:18 am
Congrats to the O’s for tying up the series with the Evil Empire.
Undecided
October 12th, 2012
12:32 am
Well, Ryan came across as a whiney kid who didn’t know many facts and couldn’t support what he believed. Other than that, he did just fine. I liked him as Eddie Munster better than a vp candidate.
Roswell mom
October 12th, 2012
12:36 am
I thought Biden did a good job of supporting women’s rights. Romney/Ryan want to set us back 40 years. That might be fine for families where the husband’s salary provides enough to pay for housing, food and other necessities, but we haven’t lived in that world since the early Reagan years.
Romney man
October 12th, 2012
12:42 am
Is it too late for Romney to switch to Rick Santorum? Santorum might have been able to compete better with Biden. I know the convention is over, but can Romney make that call on his own?