VP debate live thread: Biden vs. Ryan
FINAL UPDATE: As predicted, this debate won’t end up mattering very much. Each base will be pleased with its candidate and bewildered anyone could think much of the other guy, but I can’t imagine undecideds picking Obama or Romney based on tonight.
***
UPDATE at 9:50: The story of this debate so far is Biden’s rude and erratic behavior — interrupting Ryan repeatedly and weirdly laughing throughout Ryan’s remarks. As I said before, the obvious strategy is to portray Ryan, and by extension Romney, as untrustworthy. But there’s enough in his own remarks — his claim that no Democrats support Medicare premium support, for example — that should be howled down by the fact checkers that it isn’t going to work.
It will be interesting to see how well Ryan’s barrage of data and statistics goes over. Biden has stuck with one or two figures per answer; even though they’ve often been wrong, out of date, or misleading, the simplicity might work better. We shall see.
***
UPDATE at 9:20: Biden is doubling down on the idea the GOP candidates don’t tell the truth: “malarkey” and “incredible” are the words he uses to open his initial responses to Ryan’s comments. But it seems to me he left himself very much open to the fact checkers with his comment that there were no requests for additional security in Benghazi — there’s already been sworn testimony to the contrary before Congress.
That’s about all Biden said about Libya, as he quickly changed the subject to Iraq and bin Laden. Compared to Ryan’s detailed breakdown of what went wrong in Benghazi, I’m guessing that didn’t go over well with viewers.
***
ORIGINAL POST:
I’ll be updating this post periodically during tonight’s debate between Vice President Joe Biden and his would-be successor, Paul Ryan. I’ll also be tweeting my thoughts, and I encourage you to follow them, too.
On Monday, I wrote about the expectations factor in last week’s first presidential debate. I think that could play out the opposite way tonight: Republicans, in particular, are positively giddy about the prospect the well-spoken Ryan will tear the gaffe-prone Biden to shreds. But this ignores the fact Biden has more experience in this type of setting and a demeanor that could translate well to the viewership. Ryan is an unknown quality as far as debates go, though he’s proven to be effective at retail politics.
And there’s the question of how much tonight will matter, anyway. Who remembers the Dick Cheney-John Edwards debate in 2004? The Cheney-Lieberman debate in 2000? Lloyd Bentsen tore Dan Quayle a new one in 1988, while Quayle performed better than expected against Al Gore in 1992 — and yet neither Michael Dukakis nor George H.W. Bush won their respective races.
A Ryan win could keep momentum on the GOP’s side, while a Biden win could be used to spark an “Obama comeback” story. Would either development outlive next Tuesday’s Round 2 between President Obama and Mitt Romney? I doubt it.
But hey: It will, no doubt, be fun to watch and discuss.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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234 comments Add your comment
Grasshopper
October 11th, 2012
9:21 pm
Biden acts a complete fool with that ceramic grin on his botoxxed face. Can you imagine him as president? Complete disaster.
Gravy Train is on one for sure
October 11th, 2012
9:30 pm
Yeah, we sure would hate to have a successful, decent, honorable man who respects the rights of all Americans as President. That would just be horrible.
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
9:47 pm
Don’t look now, but Boy Blunder Lyin’ Ryan is getting torched!
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
9:50 pm
Obviously, magic underwear is no match for the truth. SHAZAAM!
DLS
October 11th, 2012
9:50 pm
What is with the moderator asking permission to change the subject. One of the worst debate moderators ever.
iggy
October 11th, 2012
9:51 pm
Where is Train Wreck?
Red
October 11th, 2012
9:53 pm
#hohum @yawn. so bored- wonk wonk what?
bv
October 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
Joe B is rude
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
No big advantage to either side on the facts, but Biden has shown time and again that he’s short on manners.
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
bv– Coke!
Hillbilly D
October 11th, 2012
9:56 pm
Y’all are missing some damn good baseball.
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
9:59 pm
Not me, HD–I’m split-screening it. Good NCAA football game as well, W. Kentucky at Troy.
BCE753
October 11th, 2012
9:59 pm
I’m 42. I’ve been working and paying social security taxes since 1986 and I am so tired of hearing Romney Ryan say its ok for my generation–that has also planned its future figuring in the return on our lifetime investment in social security–to make the sacrifice for the benefit of current seniors and baby boomers about to retire. No one is publicly objecting I this generational wealth transfer. Wake up! When my generation hears social security reform qualified with the words “for current seniors,” it’s another way of saying to us F-U!
p bellue
October 11th, 2012
10:00 pm
VP Biden has talked out of turn, and still says nothing. He has no record to talk on, he can only be rude and say nothing. the mediator cannot control Biden. this is a truly a fall away debate. Biden has only one thing going for him. more talk.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:00 pm
Paul “Ayn Rand” Ryan has a new one… Not only will Ryan not be elected V.P., Ryan will not be re-elected to his Congressional seat… Pitiful.. So sad…
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
October 11th, 2012
10:02 pm
If you’re planning on relying on SS for your retirement, you must not have much self respect. SS provides a pathetic standard of living. You should be saving and planning for a decent retirement for yourself.
MAScott
October 11th, 2012
10:02 pm
I am so happy to see Paul Ryan called what he is a liar…I want all his benefits back and then let us see how he functions!
eve
October 11th, 2012
10:07 pm
Biden is a caricature of himself. His smirking and interrupting overshadows any valid points he can make. Look at these 2 men. Which one would you choose to be the replacement for the President? If being and looking presidential matters, then Ryan undoubtedly is the choice.
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
10:07 pm
Lyin’ Ryan in the Oval Office? America says “NO!”
p bellue
October 11th, 2012
10:08 pm
this is pitiful. Biden lying to keep face. have the dems not briefed him?
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
10:10 pm
I hope Ryan is not wearing the mythical mormon magic underwear. He definitely has soiled them. LOL The PLUTOCRATS stuck you with this chump. LOL
Lscott
October 11th, 2012
10:10 pm
Who picks these moderators??? Find a bright non partisan person who can handle the debates.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:11 pm
Paul “Rand” Ryan had a chance to serve in the military… He could have volunteered to fight in the first Gulf was, the second Gulf war and the Afghan war… Ryan chose not to fight… Ryan==> Chicken Hawk, just like Mittens Romney… Both of them are “soft.”
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:13 pm
Non rich Republicans ==> All style, no substance… No plan…
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
10:15 pm
Paul “Rand” Ryan had a chance to serve in the military…
Last I checked, neither Obama nor Biden served in the military either. Your point??
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:16 pm
I wonder which idiot in the audience o’biden is playing his giggle about Ryan game with.
Can there possibly be two whackjobs in the same building?
smart
October 11th, 2012
10:16 pm
Obviously Joe has kicked his butt.
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
10:17 pm
Not me, HD!
1 -1 in the eighth.
The cons next door are reporting that Baltimore is up 9 -1 and Biden got crushed!
LOL…
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:17 pm
Romney/Ryan is toast… A footnote in the history books… Obama/Biden will win re-election in a historic landslide…
Gravy Train
October 11th, 2012
10:17 pm
UPDATE 10:19 Kyle is scrambling like mad to spin this disaster that is Lyin’ Ryan.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:21 pm
o’biden doesn’t impose his beliefs on anyone??????????????????????????????????????????????
Who does o’biden think pays for planned parenthood and all the other government sponsored murderers of unborn children?
Who levies taxes, moron?
md
October 11th, 2012
10:22 pm
I think Joe got his marching orders to be stern, and he certainly started out that way…….then he morphed into an angry old man……..a bit grouchy and rude.
Can’t say I’m impressed with either of them.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:24 pm
Hoking a Veteran up with a poverty level income is a “sacred obligation” to o’biden. Wow, isn’t he the man?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:24 pm
hooking, geez
Bhoefner
October 11th, 2012
10:25 pm
Has this moderator heard of separation of church and state…personal feelings have no place in office.
I do not want anyone determining what I should or should not do regarding my body in regard to contraception or abortion because of their own religious beliefs. Who are these people thinking that they can take women back to the middle ages..leave us alone and impose your beliefs on their own daughters and wives.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:26 pm
Attention all non rich Americans… If you wish to have a happy and prosperous life for yourselves, your Children and your Grand Children, Vote Democrat… Give the Democrats the tools they need to fix what the Republicans screwed up… The Democrats must have a 100 seat majority in the House, a filibuster proof super majority in the Senate and re-elect President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden in a historic landslide…
@@
October 11th, 2012
10:26 pm
The dems need to cut Joe loose while he’s still young enough to get a leading role on some soap opera.
geez!
smart
October 11th, 2012
10:27 pm
There is no way a God fearing BAPTIST could ever VOTE for a very proud CULTLeader (MORMON). That means Romney would be the first non-christian president in our countrys history.
Bhoefner
October 11th, 2012
10:30 pm
Lying Ryan will bring “honesty” to the VP office…REALLY!!!!
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:31 pm
Ryan was the clear winner unless, of course, inane talking points is all you’re looking for from your leaders.
Liberal Pariah
October 11th, 2012
10:31 pm
I am a God fearing evangelical Southern Baptist (that’s why I am a Liberal Pariah) and I will vote for Romney. I believe Obama is the first non Christian President in our countrys history.
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:32 pm
Attention Romney/Ryan… We the non rich Americans don’t want to hear anymore talk from either of you about tax cuts for rich people… Those days are over with… No one who earn more than $250.000 dollars a year will receive any got damn tax cuts in the forseeable future… So please, don’t insult our intelligence again with this tax cuts for rich people B.S…
Liberal Pariah
October 11th, 2012
10:33 pm
Biden’s condescension is annoying even for a Liberal. He represents failure for the last 4 years. Time for a change. The Republicans screwed nothing up without help from the Democrats. What part of EPIC FAIL do you Libs not understand. Obama has failed and he has no plan, just SPEECHES.
Liberal Pariah
October 11th, 2012
10:34 pm
The people you want to cut taxes on are the job producers. Only an idiot goes for this class warfare garbage.
jconservative
October 11th, 2012
10:36 pm
Liberal Pariah at 10:31
You might want to check the SBC website for this document.
“On June 14th, 2000, the Southern Baptist Convention adopted a revised summary of our faith.”
ODD OWL
October 11th, 2012
10:37 pm
All the Founding Fathers Presidents were Deists… They worshipped the Sun God Ra… Ignorance is the Temple of the presumptous… Arrogance is ignorance matured…
smart
October 11th, 2012
10:37 pm
How can a party that claims they support christian values support a MORMON they don’t believe the BIBLE. Wake up people understand what MORMONs are put your prejusdices aside. Romney want be able to pray to GOD because of his CULT believe.
Bruno
October 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
Give the Democrats the tools they need to fix what the Republicans screwed up… The Democrats must have a 100 seat majority in the House, a filibuster proof super majority in the Senate and re-elect President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden in a historic landslide…
OWL–In case you were asleep the past 4 years, the Dems had their chance, and fumbled at every turn. Time to give someone else a chance. Making excuses only goes so far.
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
October 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
So the intelligence community is to blame for the death of Christopher Stephens, according to o’biden. Of course, the intelligence community doesn’t work for o’biden and his little tard boss, who are these shadowy people that call themselves intelligent? Are they from Wall Street, boogey, boogey , boogey. Should we start an Occupy the Intelligence Community protest? Duh. Babble. Wuz n charge hear? What, we have an army? What’s the army do? Are they spying on us? Blah, blah, blah.
JamVet
October 11th, 2012
10:40 pm
The people you want to cut taxes on are the trickle downers. (Because it’s worked so damn good for the past thirty years!)