VP debate live thread: Biden vs. Ryan

FINAL UPDATE: As predicted, this debate won’t end up mattering very much. Each base will be pleased with its candidate and bewildered anyone could think much of the other guy, but I can’t imagine undecideds picking Obama or Romney based on tonight.

***

UPDATE at 9:50: The story of this debate so far is Biden’s rude and erratic behavior — interrupting Ryan repeatedly and weirdly laughing throughout Ryan’s remarks. As I said before, the obvious strategy is to portray Ryan, and by extension Romney, as untrustworthy. But there’s enough in his own remarks — his claim that no Democrats support Medicare premium support, for example — that should be howled down by the fact checkers that it isn’t going to work.

It will be interesting to see how well Ryan’s barrage of data and statistics goes over. Biden has stuck with one or two figures per answer; even though they’ve often been wrong, out of date, or misleading, the simplicity might work better. We shall see.

***

UPDATE at 9:20: Biden is doubling down on the idea the GOP candidates don’t tell the truth: “malarkey” and “incredible” are the words he uses to open his initial responses to Ryan’s comments. But it seems to me he left himself very much open to the fact checkers with his comment that there were no requests for additional security in Benghazi — there’s already been sworn testimony to the contrary before Congress.

That’s about all Biden said about Libya, as he quickly changed the subject to Iraq and bin Laden. Compared to Ryan’s detailed breakdown of what went wrong in Benghazi, I’m guessing that didn’t go over well with viewers.

***

ORIGINAL POST:

I’ll be updating this post periodically during tonight’s debate between Vice President Joe Biden and his would-be successor, Paul Ryan. I’ll also be tweeting my thoughts, and I encourage you to follow them, too.

On Monday, I wrote about the expectations factor in last week’s first presidential debate. I think that could play out the opposite way tonight: Republicans, in particular, are positively giddy about the prospect the well-spoken Ryan will tear the gaffe-prone Biden to shreds. But this ignores the fact Biden has more experience in this type of setting and a demeanor that could translate well to the viewership. Ryan is an unknown quality as far as debates go, though he’s proven to be effective at retail politics.

And there’s the question of how much tonight will matter, anyway. Who remembers the Dick Cheney-John Edwards debate in 2004? The Cheney-Lieberman debate in 2000? Lloyd Bentsen tore Dan Quayle a new one in 1988, while Quayle performed better than expected against Al Gore in 1992 — and yet neither Michael Dukakis nor George H.W. Bush won their respective races.

A Ryan win could keep momentum on the GOP’s side, while a Biden win could be used to spark an “Obama comeback” story. Would either development outlive next Tuesday’s Round 2 between President Obama and Mitt Romney? I doubt it.

But hey: It will, no doubt, be fun to watch and discuss.

– By Kyle Wingfield

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234 comments Add your comment

PROUD NAVY VET

October 11th, 2012
5:39 pm

I have seen a video from the Presidential debate last week and it shows Gov. Romney taking papers from his left front pocket as he reaches the podiem and the putting papers up his left sleeve as the debate ends. I’m sure many have seen it, it’s on UTUBE. What was that he took out of his pocket? The rules are no papers, notes or aids of any kind. Someone please tell me what that was. Did he cheat?

@@

October 11th, 2012
5:52 pm

Who remembers the Dick Cheney-John Edwards debate in 2004?

ME!!!!!

I’ve been reviewing past debates and ran across this from the 2007 primaries.

Hillary vs Obama:

Though often accused of not being clear on what she would do to save the Social Security system, Clinton was very clear during the debate about one thing: She was against Obama’s plan to increase Social Security taxes on some people making more than $97,000 a year.

“I do not want to fix the problems of Social Security on the backs of middle-class families and seniors,” she said.

“If you lift the cap completely, that is a $1 trillion tax increase. I don’t think we need to do that.”

A visibly upset Obama responded: “Understand that only 6 percent of Americans make more than $97,000 a year. So six percent is not the middle class. It is the upper class!”

So just five short years ago, Obama thought $98,000 a year was upper class?

What number did he finally settle on? It’s been an up and down proposition with this guy.

Patty

October 11th, 2012
6:03 pm

Proud Navy Vet, if that really did happen and Romney used notes, don’t you think the LIBERAL press would have had a field day with that? Now, why I respect the service you do for your country, please stop with the excuses. Obama lost the debate–it’s over.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

October 11th, 2012
6:09 pm

Navy Vet, I saw Romney vesting pointers from Elvis just before going onstage.

Hyphen libs have become unhinged since Romney wiped the floor with your Messaiah.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

October 11th, 2012
6:10 pm

Sorry. Android spell check at work.

MarkV

October 11th, 2012
6:12 pm

@@ @5:52 pm

There is no universal definition of middle- and upper-class, and depending on the subject, it can be quite reasonable to draw the line differently. It is certainly an insignificant issue compared with Romney’s 47% comments.

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

October 11th, 2012
6:13 pm

Hey Kyle! I’m still hoping for that “rip the beating heart out of Biden’s chest” moment you referenced in your earlier comments.

That’s why I have this set to DVR. ;)

Gravy Train

October 11th, 2012
6:15 pm

A little pre-debate reading for those weary of LDS political intentions

http://www.salon.com/2012/01/29/mitt_and_the_white_horse_prophecy/

Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right

October 11th, 2012
6:15 pm

Looks like the Yerkes Primate Center had a religious bigot escape tonight.

Gravy Train

October 11th, 2012
6:21 pm

A vote for Willard is a vote for Joseph Smith and the Mormon cult. Don’t be fooled by the slick hair and the million dollar smile. Smith wants the LDS to establish a theocracy based on his delusions here in the United States and then the world. That’s why they canvas our neighborhoods with “missionaries” they need more money and more bodies. That’s why Willard contributed so much to the cult. Members are required to do so. The number I was told is 30% of reported income. Yes, they will ask to see your financial records.

jconservative

October 11th, 2012
6:29 pm

I will do something more exciting than sitting through a VP debate. I plan on going outside, turning on the lights, and watching the grass grow.

PROUD NAVY VET

October 11th, 2012
6:45 pm

It you re-read my post, I’m asking what it was. It’s on utube, take a look and tell me what you think it is please.

MarkV

October 11th, 2012
6:48 pm

PROUD NAVY VET @6:45 pm

I believe there was good evidence that it was a white handkerchief.

PROUD NAVY VET

October 11th, 2012
6:54 pm

Oh, yes. The President was beat that night. They both said things that were untrue. I’m not afraid of saying that. I will admit when I feel he is wrong. Because that’s what honorable people do. I truly try to be honest and tell the truth about everything. I have always taught my kids that, tell the truth, no matter what the cost. I also feel Mr. Romney changed his position drastically to appear more center leaning then he has been for over a year. We have an example within the last 36 hours about abortion. That was proven on Starting Point this morning by Soliad Obrian, it also is on utube. Can anyone who supports Gov. Romney say he switched his stance to appear more center? Please, tell the truth. Not trying to bash or tear down Mr. Romney, facts are facts and there is video to support it. Tell the truth.

PROUD NAVY VET

October 11th, 2012
6:55 pm

Markv, I sure hope it was.

Aquagirl

October 11th, 2012
6:55 pm

It’s a hanky, for cryin’ out loud. Obama’s campaign says the yootubers et al. claiming otherwise are a tinfoil hat crowd.

Leave the crazy internet mutterings to the Birthers and other kooks. They’re doing a much better job of crazy.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-sheffield/2012/10/11/obama-campaign-derides-liberal-bloggers-tinfoil-hat-crowd-promoti

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

October 11th, 2012
7:13 pm

Proud Navy Vet

You are sounding a lot like Van Jones and Cynthia McKinney here tonight.

Del

October 11th, 2012
7:18 pm

Given Obama’s poor performance in the first presidential debate and resultant Romney/Ryan big bump in the poles It’s hard to envision a strategy of having Biden of all people come into this debate with guns blazing. I think Axelfraud and the DNC want Biden to just maintain composure and come out of it wound free. The Obama campaign if they have their way would rather come out of this debate with a draw that they can spin as a victory. Their problem may be Joe, who could lose discipline and gaffe terribly. Should that happen Ryan will come out a distinct winner much like Romney.

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

October 11th, 2012
7:20 pm

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/timesbay-news-9herald-exclusive-florida-poll-romney-51-obama-44/1255882

Posted in memory of DannyX, who has just disappeared along with Barry’s support. Where oh where is DannyX, the poll master? We have really missed our daily posting of new polls, Danny.

Dharma Bum

October 11th, 2012
7:23 pm

PROUD NAVY VET

You should totally investigate that further and file a report…

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

October 11th, 2012
7:27 pm

Will the debate be closed captioned so that normal decent people can understand o’bidens psychobabble?

Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy

October 11th, 2012
7:30 pm

Should that happen Ryan will come out a distinct winner much like Romney.

Del, Prediction- if Ryan clearly wins, the spin will be that he lied.

They said Romney lied because he couldn’t defend how he was going to pay for the 5T dollar tax cut, that he never proposed. So, you are supposed to be prepared to discuss your economic plans and the one the Dems have written for you as well. If you don’t embrace the plan they crafted for you then you have changed your position, you are not an extremist now, but are trying to be a moderate, according to them.

It is just downright funny to watch a regime, with a very poor record, few accomplishments, no plan for a second term other than more of the miasma, try to wage a campaign with only one plank, tar and feather the other guy.

md

October 11th, 2012
7:30 pm

Romney didn’t flip on abortion……all he said was he had no plans to offer legislation to change the status quo, but at the same time he acknowledged he is still anti-abortion.

Del

October 11th, 2012
7:33 pm

Proud Navy Vet,

Soledad O’Brian isn’t exactly an unbiased media personality. We conservatives felt Romney has stayed close to our principals and understand that he’s in this to win. Obama was in it to win during the 08 campaign that saw him appear to remake himself into a centrist. Obama is not a centrist, he’s a far left radical who slipped by the electorate. The Romney shift if indeed there has been one is minor in comparison to Obama’s deception.

Gravy Train

October 11th, 2012
7:45 pm

So, no word from the Ryan camp about magic underwear? They seemed to work really well for Willard. He’s for and against the same thing at the same time. Abra freakin’ cadabra!

Del

October 11th, 2012
7:48 pm

Rafe, of course they’ll accuse Ryan of lying as they have Romney. They have a timing problem, however, because of this inexcusable loss of life in Benghazi. They can’t escape from the White House and State Department lies and coverup of this tragic incident. This may be of and in itself the downfall of this pathetically incompetent administration.

Del

October 11th, 2012
7:53 pm

Me thinks the lib’s are terrified of their impending loss and can’t even make semi coherent comments.

@@

October 11th, 2012
7:57 pm

MarkV:

If the government’s gonna divide us into classes, I need which pigeonhole I belong in.

Gravy Train

October 11th, 2012
7:57 pm

For the record: I accept all religions. In America, we are free to worship as we choose. I have friends of all faiths and I enjoy our discussions. Religious cults like the Latter Day Saints or Mormons, on the other hand, should be viewed with much skepticism. There is a dangerous fanaticism that has always been an element of their organization. Yes, they even have murdered Americans from time to time. It all started with Joseph Smith shooting and killing three of his own townsmen before trying to flee the scene by jumping out of a second story window. Why would Joseph Smith’s own people raise charges against him? Eventually, his true intentions were revealed. How do you get away with adultery? Call it polygamy and declare it an official practice of the cult. How do you bypass God’s law? Put Joseph Smith above God. Willard didn’t make his way to a high office in the cult by fluffing his way through. This is his core.

iggy

October 11th, 2012
8:00 pm

“It you re-read my post, I’m asking what it was. It’s on utube, take a look and tell me what you think it is please.”

A large communion wafer, perhaps?

@@

October 11th, 2012
8:05 pm

Gravy Train:

Religious cults like the Latter Day Saints or Mormons, on the other hand, should be viewed with much skepticism.

Then don’t join the LDS church.

Simple enough?

Del

October 11th, 2012
8:07 pm

Gravy Brain,

I’ve seen nothing in my generation or previous generations let alone today that gives any indication we have anything to be concerned with as we do from radical Islamic jihadists.

Gravy Train

October 11th, 2012
8:07 pm

You know, I forgot something. If Lyin’ Ryan gets stuck, he can always fall back on Atlas Shrugged material. LOL, you guys actually nominated these clowns. Excuse me. The PLUTOCRATS that run your party nominated these clowns! They are right, you are easy to manipulate.

They BOTH suck

October 11th, 2012
8:07 pm

@@

Since the 1st time read Gravy and his sock puppets posts it has been the same exact thing.

Nothing new. Doesn’t matter which AJC blog

Gravy Train

October 11th, 2012
8:08 pm

Research how Brigham Young declared war on the United States of America, Del.

Del

October 11th, 2012
8:12 pm

Off to watch the pregame. Y’all enjoy.

@@

October 11th, 2012
8:12 pm

A picture of Romney wiping his nose with the nefarious cheat sheet.

getalife

October 11th, 2012
8:12 pm

Jack Kemp said it was not trickle down, it was Niagara Falls.

How did that turn out cons?

Niagara Falls for the deficit.

getalife

October 11th, 2012
8:15 pm

Bring em young was a radical.

JamVet

October 11th, 2012
8:23 pm

Congressman, I served with Dan Quayle, I knew Dan Quayle, Dan Quayle was a friend of mine. Congressman, you’re no Dan Quayle. (Prolonged shouts and applause.)

ODD OWL

October 11th, 2012
8:24 pm

V.P. Joe Biden, the pit bull attack dog has been unleashed… He haven’t been fed in a week…. The pit bull is going to beat that Boy like a Govment mule… Biden is going to rip that little Wisconsin whippersnapper a new +++ ++++… Heh heh heh !!!

iggy

October 11th, 2012
8:26 pm

iggy

October 11th, 2012
8:26 pm

The PMSNBCrs are working themselves in to pre-meltdown…

cc

October 11th, 2012
8:27 pm

PROUD NAVY VET@5:39 pm:
“I have seen a video from the Presidential debate last week and it shows Gov. Romney taking papers from his left front pocket as he reaches the podiem and the putting papers up his left sleeve as the debate ends”
I watched the debate and certainly missed seeing any papers being moved from pockets to sleeves. Perhaps there has been some clever video editing done post-debate or maybe it was only his handkerchief?

Gravy Train@6:11 pm:
“Kyle, are the cult members loaning Ryan a pair of magic underwear for the debate tonight?”
You are very tiring, very old broken record. Why are YOU so obsessed with ‘underwear’? Do you have some secret ‘underwear fetish’?

Tom(Independent Viet Vet-USAF)

October 11th, 2012
8:44 pm

Is either candidate using a teleprompter? I would just like to know?

JamVet

October 11th, 2012
8:47 pm

Congressman, I partied with Sarah Palin, I “knew” Sarah Palin, Sarah Palin was a freak. Congressman, you’re no Sarah Palin. (Prolonged shouts and applause.)

JamVet

October 11th, 2012
8:54 pm

Grasshopper

October 11th, 2012
9:06 pm

Biden did not even attempt to answer the Libya question.

iggy

October 11th, 2012
9:08 pm

Smilin Joe has no answer.

I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...

October 11th, 2012
9:08 pm

Well, if smiling like an idiot is a qualification, then o’biden really is a VP.