The real statistics for Georgia’s charter schools

State charter schools, such as Ivy Preparatory Academy, more than likely have a higher percentage of parents who are actively engaged in their children’s education than many of those parents whose children remain in traditional public schools. I say this without undue judgment. Also, charter schools serve only a small population of a traditional school’s total student body. Traditional public schools serve all of the students in a district.

My concern with the movement toward state charter schools is that this movement may be more politically motivated, than educationally motivated. Parents presently have the legal right to appeal charter schools, which have been denied by local school districts, to the State Board of Education.

My reasons for thinking that this is a highly political issue are the following: (1) There was an unusually intense debate on the constitutional amendment in Georgia’s last legislative session. (2) There have been large amounts of money coming into Georgia from out-of-state donors to support passage of this amendment. (3) State Superintendent of Schools, Dr. John Barge, has received unusually heightened criticism by politicians for voicing that he cannot support this amendment because traditional public schools are already underfunded in Georgia. (4) Polls have been conducted, regarding this amendment, by a Republican polling group that is known to have advocated for Republican causes.

Public education, as we have known it, may be on the line in Georgia because of this amendment. I will vote NO because I wish to improve public education from within, with the help of charter schools which will work with school districts, not against them, to that purpose. It is my opinion that traditional public schools were not designed for profit purposes, but were designed to serve the common good of all. I do not wish to see them supplanted by schools which may end up being managed by for-profit management companies.

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Pssst, Kyle!
There’s a Presidential election five weeks away. 435 House seats. Control of the Senate. According to your frequent posters, “…the most important presidential election in my lifetime….in American history…in the history of the world…sets America’s course for the next century…”

Yes, actually, I Have seen the polls.

I’d find something else to talk about, too.

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Also, I agree with Mary Elizabeth that state charter schools do an excellent job. My wife works for one. Parent participation is required as is community participation. Unless xenophobes use them as an exclusionary institution, public charter schools are an excellent educational choice.

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There is no magic wand in education; there is however a direct correlation to better students, better schools because of better parenting. That’s it in a nutshell. You can take a charter school and put it in the inner city and it will not out perform the comparible public school. It’s not rocket science nor a mystery, the family that values education, promotes education will make sure that school is on the right track…

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No blog on how the Libyans are fighting the terrorists themselves? Looks like “they all hate us” is just fear mongering to play on the feeble minds of a xenophobic base being led to the slaughter by a small group of plutocrats.

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All you done is taken what you called useless statistics and cherry picked them to prove your point. You need to answer the question of did the best students simply move from public to charter. That’s the crux of the debate. Essentially, all of the “good” students move and leave the public school to struggle.

Did the students in the schools actually show improvement against their baseline before entering the school? If the students accepted into the charter were bottom of the barrel in state testing and showed dramatic improvement, then you are right. That’s not answered in the massive amount of words in the article, is it?

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I’m not going to stop writing about the presidential campaign.

In late November, can you please please please stop writing about the presidential campaign?

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Sure, as long as the Democrats aren’t still suing to overturn any results they don’t like…

Seriously? You think it’s that close?? Interesting. Perhaps you’ll elaborate on how you see that in another column. Don’t want to distract from this one.

Meanwhile, I asked earlier still don’t know how this works: do state chartered schools work like private schools for enrollment or public schools?

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If you want to improve educaton, then get the politicians and the money-grubbers out of the system and leave the education of kids to the teachers, prinicipals and the parents.

Charter schools are not the answer to much of anything.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/09/24-0

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Kyle @ 1:19

I agree that we need structural change, but changing the structure of the school system is not the basic problem. We have to somehow (and I don’t know how) change the perceptions/expectations of the population to realize that teachers don’t educate those who don’t want to be educated even if they are forced to spend X hours in a classroom

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Ok, thanks, Kyle.

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Luckily the is The Job Corps, where my nephew is currently attending orientation. I for one appreciate the help that is provided by our community and our government. I dare one of you ditto-heads to call that “mooching.” Go ahead and prove your idiocy.

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He was able to get much more targeted and individual instruction at the charter school as well. Their class sizes are much smaller. Think of when you were in college and had to take a core class that was so large they held it in an auditorium, versus taking the advanced version of the same class that had maybe 20 people in it. The opportunity for open discussion and student participation is greatly enhanced by the smaller class size. Plus, parent participation is not voluntary at our school, it is required.

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JF, I’m going to ask my wife if they keep track of those numbers at our school. I bet they do. The really cool thing is that almost a third of the school includes poverty level ESOL students. (English as a Second Language students) They go to class with another third of the student population that are from the surrounding affluent neighborhoods. The rest of the students fall somewhere between the two. It is not a private or exclusionary institution.

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Kyle, 10:59 am

Kyle, I continue to believe that this amendment is highly political. Allow me to take each of your points and explain, with some detail or documentation of sources, as to why I made my particular points at 10:38 am. I will address your first two points in this post, and the last two points in my following post. I thank you for allowing me to present my points of view on your blog, because I recognize that my political leanings are different from your own.

(1) I was present when the House Education Committee allowed public speakers to give their points-of-view regarding the consitutional amendment, so that I actually experienced the degree of intensity present in the room, firsthand. I thought that the chairman of that committee was somewhat out-of-line by stating, “We are going to pass this resolution,” (HR 1162) before the vote was even cast. One representative on that committee, moreover, cautioned the committee to listen, in fuller detail, to what the public was saying and not to rush headstrong into passing the amendment resolution because the full ramifications of passage of that resolution, in years to come, needed to be considered.

(2) In the AJC, page A-1, September 14, 2012, the article entitled, “Charter School’s Amendment – Money pushing for vote not local – Donors signal Ga. vote draws national interest,” was published. The article was written by Wayne Washington of the AJC. Below are a few excerpts from that article:
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“Almost all of the roughly $500,000 an advocacy group has raised to persuade Georgians to amend the constitution so more charter schools are approved has come from out-of-state donors, campaign disclosure forms show.

Families for Better Public Schools, which is leading the charge for the proposed state constitutional amendment, reported at the end of August that it had raised $486,750 in cash contributions. Of that total, $20,990 – just more than 4 percent – came from Georgia donors.

Vote Smart, a coalition of groups opposing the amendment, has raised $80,951, much of it from Georgia teachers, principals and superintendents.

The truckload of out-of-state cash highlights the fact that Georgia’s battle over charter schools has become a national focal point in the school choice movement.

Big-money donors dot the contributor list for Families for Better Public Schools. Wal-Mart heiress Alice Walton of Arkansas has given $250,000 to the cause. Two contributors from Michigan have donated a combined $50,000, and an organization in Virginia has forked over $100,000. . .

‘The question is, why are so many for-profit companies funding the Georgia campaign pushing this amendment?’ asked Tom Upchurch, campaign chairman for Vote Smart. ‘This isn’t about education. This is about money to be made and money to be paid.’ . . .”
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To read more excerpts from this article, please read my post at 1:50 pm on Maureen Downey’s blog, which can be viewed through this link:

http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2012/09/10/does-charter-school-funding-leave-taxpayers-holding-the-bag/?cp=5
——————————————————–

My more detailed explanation of my reasoning, regarding points 3 and 4, will follow in my next post on this thread.

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@Gravy Train,

There is no need. The kids take the CRCT every year in grades 1 -8 and they can be grouped into a percentile among all students. Track CRCT performance for those going from public to charter and see if they increase in the percentiles of all students after joining the charter school.

It’s that simple. All that is missing is the will to answer the question.

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Oh boy, a new state bureaucracy to run parallel to the current system. How fiscally responsible, GOP!

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At least with charter schools a parent can CHOOSE to send their kids to a school that manages their discipline problems. (and/or attendance, social promotion, SPED, or any of the other main issues not currently being addressed in public schools)

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I say full funding now. Full funding means we will have to build more schools to meet the demand for smaller class sizes. That means a lot of unemployed construction workers will have more jobs. That means the building will require maintenance. More Jobs. The schools will need to be staffed with quality educators and administrators. More Jobs. Local vendors will have access to the school. More jobs. We the people get jobs and our children get a quality education. Every child can have a fighter’s chance to succeed. We All Win! I know you will ask “How will we fund this real road to recovery?” I’ll let a guy who owes his community over $140 million explain that? Hell, no! Vote the obstructionists and plutocrats out of office! Let’s get to work! WE ARE ALL AMERICANS! Forward not Back!

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**Milton Friedman’s 1955 article, “The Role of Government in Education,” argued for a voucher system that would allow parents to purchase the school of their choice for their children. Just as Friedman’s supply-side free-market beliefs have been proven wrong, so also the notion of privatizing education is doomed to failure.

The evidence against charter schools is overwhelming. Their relative ineffectiveness is documented by studies from Stanford University, the Department of Education, Johns Hopkins University, and the RAND Corporation.

In addition to their poor performance, charters are more segregated, less likely to accept students with disabilities, and conducive to a widening of the racial and rich-poor education gaps.

Also, charter school teachers have less experience, and their turnover rate is higher.

Yet the media-supported myth of school privatization persists. Charters sustain this myth, according to noted education scholar Diane Ravitch, by “skimming off” the most motivated students from disadvantaged neighborhoods. They claim to select students randomly. But a study of the highly regarded KIPP Charter School chain shows a pattern of “selective attrition” in which underperforming students are “counseled out.” About half of Kipp’s students leave between the 5th and 8th grades.

Charters can pull off their charade of success, because the privatization myth keeps disillusioned parents waiting at their front doors. There are currently about two million students in 5,600 charter schools throughout the U.S., with 600,000 children on the waiting lists.

In the end, perhaps the strongest argument against charter schools is that they’ve never been scaled up to a level that accommodates the majority of students. The profit motive wouldn’t allow such equality of opportunity without drastic cutbacks in teacher salaries and student support costs. After all, the people at the top need to grab their salaries first.**

Charter schools just another way to attempt to destroy the public schools in the U.S.

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They got their bail outs and their TARPS. Our money. If they wont spend it, we take it back. It’s OUR money.

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@ LoganvilleResident 10:49 am, Although I agree that it would be great to have statistics on how a child’s performance changes from traditional to public, I don’t see that as realistic. It’s the parents’ job to monitor, and parents of children in charter schools do. If they don’t like how it’s going, they move their children to another school. This is about CHOICE! And there’s very little choice in GA – it’s getting a tiny bit better but still nothing compared to the open enrollment we experienced in another state. I’m a parent of a special needs child enrolled in a charter school, and I’m very happy.

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“Essentially, all of the “good” students move and leave the public school to struggle”

This is a difficult issue when looking at achievement. Why should “good’ students be penalized because others lack the ability or motivation to learn? I applaud any youth that can “see” what the future could be and work positively towards achievement.

But the issue is the decision making and who does it. The repubs want smaller government, but are proposing to add another layer. What happened to all politics is local? What happened to those closest to the problem know better? What happened to smaller government?

These charter schools allegedly do not take funds from the other schools, so where do the charter school funds come from? Out of state donors? Now that would be interesting…not to fund a vote, but to pay the schools bills!

If the charter schools are so good, apply the concept across the board to all schools: uniforms, discipline,ramifications for actions, adequate teachers, one on one instruction (if needed), mentoring, lower class sizes, adequate facilities and supplies, leadership etc.. Send the non performers, esp the trouble maker’s to boot camp. Let them see that their performance is not good enough and more is expected. Make family participation in education mandatory; fine the parents for not doing their job!!!! Define the parents’ responsibilities and expectations. Teach the parents!

It’s been said before…that you have to take a test to drive a car but none to have children…to have the ability to support and provide positive guidance.

But back to the real issue: who should make this decision…the local school board.

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“because the privatization myth keeps disillusioned parents waiting at their front doors”

And why are these parents “disillusioned” – because the local public school will not address the problems within its own system!

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@ Mary Elizabeth 10:38 am, The money coming in from out of state shows that there’s a national interest in improving education in the USA. Georgia is doing something to get out of the #48 slot. If Georgia is successful, then other states will be motivated to improve as well. The USA’s ranking is not what it used to be. It’s of national interest that EVERY STATE improve its education.

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@Road Scholar 12:57 pm, Who should make the decision? PARENTS.

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@Cheryl,

I applaud the fact that you advocate and look out for the best interests regarding your child. If more people would do that, perhaps the education system would not be in a crisis in the first place.

However, in reality, you are telling me that *I* should willingly cede local control over taxes so that *you* have the option to send your child to the school of your choice. This is where my main issue is with the amendment as proposed. I don’t pay school taxes for *your* child to receive a top-notch education. I pay school taxes for *all* children to receive a top-notch education. I believe aside from funding things such as the military, the government’s other primary focus should be to provide all children with the best education possible. This would enable them to care for themselves and not be a drain on society.

I know that the one size fits all approach of the local school system does not work for every student. I know that there are schools that are struggling to provide even the most basic education for students. I know that we need to come up with viable alternatives to improve education.

However, I also know this… The decline of local school systems seems to be worsened by increasing state and federal regulation. This amendment wants to exercise even MORE state control over education. I think they have sufficiently proven that the only effect they have is to cause further decline in public school performance. Why would I want to continue that trend?

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@LoganvilleResident 1:34 pm, this amendment is about choice. What we really need is open enrollment. Passing the charter amendment is a step in the right direction. With choice, you get what you want, and I get what I want.

And I am happy to work with the local schools for improvement, but I can’t do that if I’m homeschooling my child because there is no local option appropriate for my child. My child comes first, and I will not have him suffer through the system that needs years to make discernible changes.

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Amen, mountain man! Sounds like we might live close to one another. We know full well what smaller class sizes and active parent support can accomplish. I wouldn’t mind seeing a dress code. These “skinny jeans” or the alter ego “saggy jeans” and what not are ridiculous, frankly. Many of our youth choose to leave home in night club attire or slavish pop culture crap. Think of how much money parents would save on clothing costs alone. I have seen it happen.

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We have to acknowledge that the old way of doing things no longer works. Forward!

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I have two children that attend a state approved charter school. They have in the past attended the local county run schools. This is their second year. Since they started attending the charter school their grades have gone up. Both of them were honor roll students all year last year. At the local schools they made C’s and some time B’s. The work that they are doing now is a grade higher then the local school systems. Last year, my 6th grader was doing the same math work as his 7th grader local attending school friend was doing. I DO NOT pay for them to attend as their charter school is also a public school. Their school does take students regardless of their ability. They provide them with the same education as the brick and mortar schools would with the one exception. The parents know that their kids aren’t going to get abused, made fun of or any thing else that has been done at your local brick and mortar school. My kids don’t have to worry about being bullied and the schools not stopping it. I don’t have to worry about some kid bringing a gun to school to shoot up the school because another kid or kids were making fun of them or stole their girlfriend or boyfriend from them. I don’t have to worry about drugs nor gangs. Now if the local schools would get a handle on all of that along with making sure that my child has the best education that they can get regardless of what type of neighborhood the school is in or how much money the parents make then my kids would attend the local b&m school. But the schools can’t do that. If you don’t live in a well off neighborhood it is like oh well you deserve what you get, your child does not deserve a good education.

Everybody wants to blame the local schools not having enough money on the fact that there are state approved charter schools and they are taking students out of the local schools. Why don’t we really put the blame where it really belongs. Look around you, take a good look around you. How many houses are foreclosed on and sitting empty? If houses are sitting empty and owned by the banks that means no property taxes are being paid. If property taxes aren’t being paid then that means less money that is going to the schools. People who rent, they pay no property taxes and their kids attend the local schools. I own a house, MY property taxes the part that goes to the local schools is going to support a school that my children don’t even attend.

I will vote yes because I feel that a parent should have the right to decide where their child goes to school. I feel that a student who lives in the ghetto should have the same chance of getting a quality education as the student who lives beside the governor.

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@Linda:

If you truly believe that your child is not going to be exposed to bullying, drugs and/or weapons because they are attending a charter school, you are not being realistic.

I won’t tell you that you haven’t seen academic improvement because that is for you to judge. I won’t tell you that your kids aren’t doing better or that you’re not happier with where your kids or at.. because again that is for you to judge.

However, I’d almost be willing to wager that drugs are found at even the best of schools. I’d also be willing to bet there are mean kids that say mean things (aka bullying) even at the best of schools.

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This is your best post yet, Kyle. I will wait for you to unleash your inner hero and take on the plutocrats another day. Bravo, sir.

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Once again–Board established charter schools already exist in Georgia. And parents have a process available to get a charter school established in areas where they don’t exist. This amendment creates a redundant/not elected and not answerable-to-the-local-electorate state board to establish charter schools.

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“If houses are sitting empty and owned by the banks that means no property taxes are being paid.”

Uh, exactly why is that? The bank STILL owes taxes for a house it has foreclosed on. If the county is losing money this way, they should place a tax lien on the property, which has to be paid at sale.

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@Linda Schlomer,

I get your point but you got a few things wrong.

People who rent do pay property taxes. They pay the landlord, and the landlord pays the taxes. They pay the exact same amount of tax as you do. The bank is also liable for the taxes in a foreclosure situation.

You can’t predict a school shooting. Almost all of the school shootings occurred in white, suburban schools like Columbine and Pearl. The only school shootings to ever occur in Georgia occurred in Conyers in 1999 and Scottdale in 1996. If you fear a school shooting, its irrational. There hasn’t been one in 12 years and prior to 1996, when there was an outburst around the country, there hadn’t ever been one.

Kids are going to get bullied anywhere they go. You would be better off parenting than running.

You can’t actually tell if your kids have improved using anecdotal evidence. Have the state sponsored standardized scores actually improved?

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Charter schools do not work. Look south to the State of Florida to see how their Charter schools (and use of vouchers) have worked….. you will find out how much they have dramatically decreased education in Florida.

The ONLY reason the noise for Charter schools exist is because of the PROFITS that the corporations can make from our tax dollars.

Georgia will likely follow in the footsteps of failed policies in Florida. Why do we do this?

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There are overt filters, such as behavior or parental requirements. Then, and more importantly, there are the hidden filters: finding out about the school, applying to the school, supplying the required paperwork, and (usually)providing your own transportation and lunch and breakfast (no subsidized lunch). Until and unless these hidden filters are negated, charter schools enjoy an advantage that traditional public schools must meet for ALL students. (Did you know that if a child is homeless and goes to live in another system, the former system has to provide free transportation to the “old” school? Gwinnett sends buses to many other counties to pick up and return kids who have moved due to homelessness. Show me a charter school that will do that!)

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Kyle@11:18: Check into the facts and you will see that the state BOE has been promising this tracking program hundreds of millions of dollars and over a decade ago. Find out to whom the money has gone, and who has been held accountable for these millions.

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Of course not, the 2016 campaign will be up and going by then.

Oh, man, trash my dream of peace and quiet, why don’t you?

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Who is really behind the charter schools amendments, legislation, etc. across the country? The majority of the money for the pro-amendment doesn’t come from Georgia.

Who is paying for it? Why do they care?

http://dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=3781

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I still don’t see how this applies to people who live in rural areas (like me). Many counties only have one high school and one middle school. So is that one school going to be a charter school or what we have now? Either way, no choice involved for the locals.

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There is already a state Board of Education that can be appealed to if the county board turns down a charter school proposal. Conservatives are very much in favor of small goevernment except when they want something. I do not trust the state goverrnment to appoint a non-partisan board, with no accountability to voters, to spend my tax dollars on something local school boards do not want. if parents want a charter school badly enough, they can appeal to the state BOE. Every single time the state budget gets cut, education is one of the first things to take a hit. We want a better educated work force, but we don’t want to pay our educators or to fund enough educators to do the job properly. And I do mean educators, not adminstrators. We can use a few less admin folks and a whole lot more teachers who are compensated well, do not have to worry about discipline in their classrooms, don’t have to manage overcrowded classrooms because oops, we cut the budget again and decided to close a few schools. Teaching is a calling for most teachers because they could not be doing it for the money. Bottom line for me is that Georgia does not seem to care that much about educating her children. And, I don’t trust the state government to spend my tax dollars properly with an appointed board of someone’s cronies.

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Hillbilly, your local government can apply for a public charter. People who say subsidies do not exist at public charter schools are lying. My daughter and my nephew went to a public charter school and they had access to breakfast, lunch and after school programs all costing the same as any other public school.. Also, since parents have more involvement, the vendor actually provides nutritious meals, instead of vending machines full of junk food and soda. The children are required to wear a blue collared shirt and khakis for boys or a blue plaid short dress for girls. There is no shunning of those who can not afford designer clothes. The testing scores speak for themselves. Every child who lives within the district of the school is eligible for enrollment. The charter allows for these differences that normal public schools do not offer in most areas.

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I am a supporter of charter schools and school choice. I do not believe in state interference in local affairs. It your school board does not approve good charter..,,elect new people.

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If you don’t think clothes and shoes are a huge cost because of children, you must not have children. Neither my daughter nor my nephew ever came home pining for the next best pair of anything except good shoes. True story. When I was in school, locker theft was a huge problem. Got a pair of Jordan’s? Better not take them off of your feet. That was the deal, I even witnessed fights over shoes and jackets. I had a part time job in high school and I save up to buy my very own pair of Jordan’s. They were white with black patent leather trim and concord soles. I wore them to school twice. There was nowhere safe to keep them after we dressed out for gym. Lockers can be opened by those who want the shoes bad enough. I really bought them specifically for my community sponsored church league basketball team. We lost one game that season and I was running on Cadillacs. LOL

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Kyle, if Willard is so serious about getting tough on China, why does he do so much business with them? If some one is shafting you, do you reward them with jobs? Why are we continuing to do business with one of the most oppressive communist regimes in the history of the world? It doesn’t sound very American to me.

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Ah, Willard, you waffling, cowardly thief. I don’t have to look far for ammo, he gives it to me every day. In the words of Darth Vader “It’s all too easy.” And I didn’t even mention his “priesthood” in the cult of Joseph Smith. Oooops!

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Mary Elizabeth @ 11:57 & 12:20:
Thank you, for your two literate posts, and for your tone of reason, contributions not often found here. And if bp is an issue, no wonder your visits here are limited.

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Just Saying, 6:15

Thank you for your gracious comments. Much appreciated. Btw, blood pressure, back to normal!

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Linda Schlomer–the work they are doing now is a grade higher THEN the local school system-Then Lil Barry shows up a few post later.

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If you don’t like the high-achieving for-profit charter school, keep your kid in the local public school. Problem solved.

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They can not be allowed to be controlled by any corporation if it is a public charter school. The community and the parents have the real power.

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Kyle, I don’tknow what school system you work for that has money left over at the end of the year, but it certainly isn’t in Georgia. Students are not even going the traditional 180 days because there isn’t enough money to operate school.

Also, could you explain to me why we have local school boards if the state is going to make decisions for them? Should one group of elected officials tell another group of elected officials what they are going to do?
Thank you for your consideration of my questions.

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Keep your money at home.Not paying some out of state corp.a profit and a reason to lobby you reps..,and create temptations

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Exactly, Mr. B. Smaller class sizes and required parental participation are exactly what is needed.

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President Barack Obama now has a 77.6% of winning the presidency in November.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/24/the-statistical-state-of-the-presidential-race/

What are we going to do now? What are we going to do now?

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When you have a public school system in NYC dispensing “Plan B” morning after pills to 14 year old students at their request, it’s only one of many travesties we learn about. It seems like we read about public schools and teachers nationally on a daily basis dabbling in social issues rather than effectively teaching our children. Time for serious reform in our public school systems nationally and taking an objective look at the learning benefit potentials through charter schools.

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Off topic…so we have the Obummer and his Mrs. Obummer on the ‘View”. This man is a fraud whose manipulated by the hard-left but he get by somehow. Obama reminds me of Chance the Gardener in the old Peter Sellers movie “Being There”. Will the American people be fooled yet again? We’ll soon learn the answer to that question.

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“This simple answer to a simple question brought to you by an American public school teacher.”

You reenforce my 7:43pm.

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Public schools have become just another means for big government to indoctrinate the young to believe the government should be providing…shelter, food, birth control, after school care…public schools are of, by, and for losers, and to perpetuate loserdom.

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Del:

Chauncey Gardner was a character portrayed by Peter Sellers in a movie based on the novel “Being There” by Jerzy Kosinski. A character that was influenced by no one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Kosinski

You obviously don’t have an idea what the premise of the story is about. However, that doesn’t stop you from injecting it into some off topic response that makes you appear foolish and dull witted. You might notice that Jerzy Kosinski was instrumental in P.E.N. which makes your comment even more mind numbing and insignificant regarding that you’re on a blog that today is about education.

You, reinforce the old adage: “It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

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Amazing, really….take public funds from public schools and make private charters that will end up eventually with the same educational levels and neither with enough funds. You will still have the same parents and the same teachers and the same smart and stupid students.

You want something “special”? Pay for it yourself in a private school run by business people without state funds. .

Make public schools better and without frills. Raise educational requirements for teachers. Cut out the buffet line for lunch and provide no breakfast. Provide truant officers for children and parents. Make parents responsible for the feeding, the homework, the manners and the misbehaving of their children. Schools were meant for education, not nursery care or parent replacements or sport centers.

Also, if you want to make educational comments do NOT mention former presidents or make judgments on presidential candidates like you were paid to do just that.. It makes your “school” comments as shallow as the shore line at low tide.

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No sir, Mr. Rafe, I am a realist and I am an American, nothing more, nothing less.

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Someone must not know what “xenophobic” means. Probably went to public schools.

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Sure I do: xenophobic: see Lil’ Brain. Enough said.

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Gravy: even though I never said what I was doing with those sticks, I think Tiberius imprinted his own thought patterns, i.e., some sort of s_x__l deviation. When what I really meant all along was taking my frustrations out by wailing away at those mannequins with that stick.

By the way, where is Linda and Tiberius. Did Kyle give them a “few days off” for their abusive comments? Inquiring minds want to know.

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“If the election were going to be held tomorrow that would be a problem.”

–Chris Christie

Uh, oh! How about if the election is held November 6, 2012, that would be a problem!

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Kyle finally starts off a post talking about something that he is indeed quite familiar with–meaningless statistics. He normally favors their use, in cases where he uses them to support his claims. What’s different this time, you might wonder. Oh. That.

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I think most rational people would agree that the SS W. Bush was the real Titanic. Looks like every poll known to man would support my claim. You are so far right that you think the center is liberal, you really do. That’s your parties whole problem. Keep riding that wave of dominance from the SS W. Bush. Funny, he was no where to be found at the RNC. It’s almost like you would have us to believe that he never even existed. Gotta frame that blame it all on Obama narrative and all. I didn’t see Ron Paul either. I did see you chumps get punked by Dirty Harry, that was funny.

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I know mike. The flogging of the dummies was the best part. Ole Tiberius is old white and Mormon, a closeted Log Cabin Republican. He is damn sensitive about it too. I did not like how he projected his sexuality into the conversation. I believe there was a hint of pedophilia in there too. The GOP are mighty brave for claiming that one.

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Dusty

You must like preaching to the choir, because everything you are crying and wailing on about is exactly the same thing you are doing in your posts.

Maybe you are just not intelligent enough to comprehend it.

Oh well, whine one

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The lost cause is the one you old cotton heads still cling to. Ready for another butt whipping? Looks like Sherman wasn’t enough.

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Ah dear gravy train,

Wanting to talk about Bush when our Obama economy is as low as a snake’s belly. How you love to mention Bush when Obama has nothing but debt in the trillions for the USA and adding to it every day.

Oh a day without debt is not a day with Obama. And you do hate those rich folks who should pay off Obama’s debts and make us all have third rate healthcare, the same kind that even the Russians dumped in disgust.

Yes, talk about Bush while the world wonders what happened to the USA in the last three plus years of Obama’s mediocrity, debt doldrums and political pandering. Bush is secure in his past strong character and leadership, while Obama drags the country lower in esteem and higher in debt.

Pour some gravy on that but nobody forgets it. . .

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Dusty

Holding on to Bush. His record is so strong that Romney will not even reference either Bush or Cheney…….

hahahahahahaha

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The rest of the world sees us much more favorably, ask the guys in Libya who took out terrorists themselves. Ask Osama Bin Laden how he feels about us. Those debts are from paying for Bush’s bills. Nice try though. You can spin it however you want, nobody is buying it anymore. The markets are all higher, employment is up (not here, we have Nathan Deal) and there is a real ground swell of momentum in favor of The President. All in spite of plutocratic obstructionists. (holding office on borrowed time) Respect the office, respect the man. Maybe then others might respect what you have to say. Maybe by 2024, you will have learned your lesson. Don’t worry, I wont be mad at having to subsidize your stay at the home. I hear those places can be nice. I bet you can get a lot of feelings out in arts and crafts time.

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Iowa St Fair @11:16 pm

But she does it with such panache!

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Whoopee gravy train,

You have now managed to bring in bigotry, discrimination and geriatric put downs. . Way to go fellow. Oh yes, and pedophilia!

LIberals may give you a blue ribbon for your confessions. You haven’t left a thing at the bottom of the barrel. Posted it all right here and you don’t even know any better.

hew! Too much contamination. G’nite.

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G’nite Mark V

Just got back from that beyootiful ocean. So wonderful! Talk to you later….

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Fred, you just might be on to something there.

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While 100% would be nice and is a worthy, merely improving on the public schools miserable record, which Kyle has demonstrated is usually the case for charter schools, would be justification enough for establishing more charters.

Teachers unions and associations have had decades to improve their pathetic record of failure. They aren’t getting the job done.

It is time for change.

It is time to Vote American.

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As an educator, I totally support charter schools. With decades of experience in the public schools, it is clear that parents need and deserve a choice. By the way, I am a democrat and happily agree with the wisdom of the republicans that support charter schools. Please tell me why Barge is not spending his time focusing on the graduation rate, closing the achievement gap between minorities and rural students and strategies to improve the SAT scores. Yes, we are in the South, but we can be innovative and do what’s best for children.

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I will vote for it and for one reason only. Competition. Georgia ranks near the bottom of education every single year. Our strides are pitiful at best. We need to shake it up and see if this is the answer to help out our youth. If we have two entities fighting it out for the funds it just like any other business, the one that gives the best service “educating our children” will win. Unfortunately we can’t get rid of bad parents, but we now can force the issue to get rid of bad teachers. Can you imagine the competition to bring in the best teachers from around the country to make your school number one?

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Stop blaming teachers for the actions of bad parents. Union teachers can teach at a public charter school too. I haven’t met a single one that dislikes the situation after they have actually worked there, instead of making knee jerk reactions based on a very small sample size. “For profit” and faith based institutions are called private charter schools. Public charter schools are free from these problems and they DO NOT get to cherry pick their student populations. PUBLIC is the key word. Very slowly, my fellow Georgians are coming to realize two things about our education system: First: the war on taxes and trickle down economics not only kills our economy but it greatly diminishes the schools our children attend. Second: Public Charter Schools produce better students, teachers and parents because they all HAVE TO be on board. Ask any regular public school teacher about parental apathy and lack of funding if you don’t believe me.

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Gravy Train

You like many other Dems are hypocrites. You join the GOP in putting your children where they will get a great education, just like the Obama’s, Clinton’s, Rahm, Kennedy’s, etc, but rail against any reform of the public schools, for the good of common folks. Gotta support those failing public schools if you are a card carrying Democrat.

You need to walk the walk, if you believe all that liberal dogma.

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Question on Mittens:
how would his religion steer his presidency?

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Finn, I guess “when the chickens come home to roost”, we will find out.

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I’ve always heard that Republicans value local control and less government….Why pressure legislators (and they were pressured) to vote to put this on the ballot when a process is already in place. The govenor and his cronnies want to go to the expense of adding an appointed commission to establish charter schools. Hipocrites one and all.

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