The real statistics for Georgia’s charter schools
Of all the worthless statistics that get thrown around in the charter-schools debate, perhaps the least important is the comparison between all charter schools and all traditional public schools statewide.
It’s a favorite figure among opponents of the constitutional amendment on this November’s ballot, which would affirm the state’s ability to create public charter schools. Among those who have trotted it out is state schools superintendent John Barge.
Here’s the statistic: In the 2010-11 school year, 73 percent of all Georgia public schools met the federally mandated adequate yearly progress, or AYP, while only 70 percent of all charter schools did.
With results like that, why bother with charter schools? Right?
While Barge and his fellow travelers in the educational establishment are correct about this figure, it is entirely meaningless in the current debate.
Utterly, wholly, completely meaningless. Irrelevant. Misleading, in fact.
For starters, that 73-to-70 comparison does not separate the charter schools approved by local school boards, which are not at issue in the November referendum, from those approved by the state, which are.
Reflect that key difference, and suddenly state-chartered schools have the advantage: 75 percent of them met AYP (this and the other more-detailed stats in this column come from the Governor’s Office of Student Achievement, also using data for 2010-11).
Still, even that doesn’t tell the whole story.
Not every part of the state has charter schools. They tend not to open in districts served by top-notch traditional public schools; the point of school choice is to help students in lower-performing areas.
Compare state-chartered schools only to the traditional public schools in the districts they serve, and they look even better. Traditional public schools in the districts served by these charters logged an AYP of just 67 percent — compared, again, to 75 percent for the state-chartered schools.
But even that doesn’t tell the whole story.
The advantage of some state-chartered schools over the traditional schools with which they compete is even starker when we look at the scores of racial and ethnic minorities.
Take Ivy Preparatory Academy, a school that received a state charter after the Gwinnett County school board rejected it. In meeting or exceeding state standards on the 2011 Criterion-Referenced Competency Test, black students at Ivy Prep outscored their counterparts in local traditional schools 93 percent to 79 percent. For Hispanic students, it was 88 percent to 80 percent. For Asian students, it was 97 percent to 81 percent.
And for those who say the state charter-schools amendment is only for the benefit of metro Atlanta: Don’t tell that to the students, parents and teachers at Charter Conservatory for Liberal Arts and Technology in Bulloch County, in southeast Georgia. CCAT recorded a graduation rate of 96 percent — compared to 69 percent in Bulloch County’s traditional high schools.
Not every state-chartered school performed higher in all aspects. But the beauty of charter schools is that the ones that don’t produce good results can be closed down, unlike bad traditional schools that keep failing students year after year.
That said, these are not trivial differences. You just won’t hear them from those who support the status quo of keeping students trapped in failing schools, stuck because of the establishment’s stubbornness.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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194 comments Add your comment
Dusty
September 24th, 2012
9:56 pm
Gravy Train,
All you need are some mashed potatoes to go with your liberal gravy. You can hardly make a comment without throwing your super salivating politics in with it.
Did it ever occur to you that many people think liberals are the red headed step children of America, the draw backs and the Titanic of American ideals?
Get your own white flag out ’cause Kyle does not need one. You are whistlin’ in the dark and trying to sound brave. I hope the pay is good for your lost cause efforts..
mike
September 24th, 2012
10:00 pm
Gravy: even though I never said what I was doing with those sticks, I think Tiberius imprinted his own thought patterns, i.e., some sort of s_x__l deviation. When what I really meant all along was taking my frustrations out by wailing away at those mannequins with that stick.
By the way, where is Linda and Tiberius. Did Kyle give them a “few days off” for their abusive comments? Inquiring minds want to know.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 24th, 2012
10:03 pm
What was that about “actual factual information”?
Obviously you didn’t intend that as a factual statement!
mike
September 24th, 2012
10:07 pm
“If the election were going to be held tomorrow that would be a problem.”
–Chris Christie
Uh, oh! How about if the election is held November 6, 2012, that would be a problem!
mike
September 24th, 2012
10:11 pm
I guess Linda hasn’t slept it off yet, er, I mean woken up yet. As for Tiberius, who knows? Are you there? Can you come out to play?
Numbers-R-US
September 24th, 2012
10:19 pm
Kyle finally starts off a post talking about something that he is indeed quite familiar with–meaningless statistics. He normally favors their use, in cases where he uses them to support his claims. What’s different this time, you might wonder. Oh. That.
Iowa St Fair
September 24th, 2012
10:22 pm
Did it ever occur to you that many people think liberals are the red headed step children of America, the draw backs and the Titanic of American ideals?
______________________________________
Someone needs to look up the word irony and hypocrite. Might do you some good
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
10:41 pm
I think most rational people would agree that the SS W. Bush was the real Titanic. Looks like every poll known to man would support my claim. You are so far right that you think the center is liberal, you really do. That’s your parties whole problem. Keep riding that wave of dominance from the SS W. Bush. Funny, he was no where to be found at the RNC. It’s almost like you would have us to believe that he never even existed. Gotta frame that blame it all on Obama narrative and all. I didn’t see Ron Paul either. I did see you chumps get punked by Dirty Harry, that was funny.
Dusty
September 24th, 2012
10:43 pm
Iowa state fair.
Are there really schools and state fairs in Iowa? I thought it was all one big prairie of pulchritude and sod buster shanties. I think you may be a red headed step child. You know; fussy, fuming and leaning left in the wind.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
10:46 pm
I know mike. The flogging of the dummies was the best part. Ole Tiberius is old white and Mormon, a closeted Log Cabin Republican. He is damn sensitive about it too. I did not like how he projected his sexuality into the conversation. I believe there was a hint of pedophilia in there too. The GOP are mighty brave for claiming that one.
ODD OWL
September 24th, 2012
10:51 pm
Charter schools are the final nail in the coffin for the public school system in the state of Georgia… Once all the school funding money is transferred to the charter schools, the public school system will be shut down… The report states that when a charter school do not perform up to standards, it will be closed down… Well, when a charter school is closed, what school will the students go to ??? The public school system will have been defunded and dismantled…
Iowa St Fair
September 24th, 2012
10:52 pm
Dusty
You must like preaching to the choir, because everything you are crying and wailing on about is exactly the same thing you are doing in your posts.
Maybe you are just not intelligent enough to comprehend it.
Oh well, whine one
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
10:53 pm
I tried my hardest to convince him that he could be Willard’s token of diversity, if only he were brave enough to go public. Alas, no dice. I did not see any new Willard stickers or yard signs today. Slim pickings in that regard. I hear Willard is selling “special edition” car stickers for $45. I’ve also seen where you can get a FREE Obama sticker and car magnet. I thought Willard had some huge “war chest” in his favor. You would think he would even crack open one of those foreign accounts and flood the land with signs, stickers and billboards. Hmmm….must be more of that poor arithmetic Brother Bill told us about?
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
10:56 pm
The lost cause is the one you old cotton heads still cling to. Ready for another butt whipping? Looks like Sherman wasn’t enough.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
11:02 pm
It’s okay though, we can move Forward, with or without the geriatric xenophobes. Their ranks thin out year after year. “We just aren’t generating enough angry white people to stay in business,” Lindsay Graham (R, SC)
Dusty
September 24th, 2012
11:03 pm
Ah dear gravy train,
Wanting to talk about Bush when our Obama economy is as low as a snake’s belly. How you love to mention Bush when Obama has nothing but debt in the trillions for the USA and adding to it every day.
Oh a day without debt is not a day with Obama. And you do hate those rich folks who should pay off Obama’s debts and make us all have third rate healthcare, the same kind that even the Russians dumped in disgust.
Yes, talk about Bush while the world wonders what happened to the USA in the last three plus years of Obama’s mediocrity, debt doldrums and political pandering. Bush is secure in his past strong character and leadership, while Obama drags the country lower in esteem and higher in debt.
Pour some gravy on that but nobody forgets it. . .
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
11:04 pm
“Dr. Boag” knows all about not generating enough business. LOL
Iowa St Fair
September 24th, 2012
11:09 pm
Dusty
Holding on to Bush. His record is so strong that Romney will not even reference either Bush or Cheney…….
hahahahahahaha
MarkV
September 24th, 2012
11:11 pm
Dusty,
I am happy to see you back, feisty as ever.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
11:15 pm
The rest of the world sees us much more favorably, ask the guys in Libya who took out terrorists themselves. Ask Osama Bin Laden how he feels about us. Those debts are from paying for Bush’s bills. Nice try though. You can spin it however you want, nobody is buying it anymore. The markets are all higher, employment is up (not here, we have Nathan Deal) and there is a real ground swell of momentum in favor of The President. All in spite of plutocratic obstructionists. (holding office on borrowed time) Respect the office, respect the man. Maybe then others might respect what you have to say. Maybe by 2024, you will have learned your lesson. Don’t worry, I wont be mad at having to subsidize your stay at the home. I hear those places can be nice. I bet you can get a lot of feelings out in arts and crafts time.
Iowa St Fair
September 24th, 2012
11:16 pm
Mark V
I love it when she calls out others while doing the exact same thing………
Bless her heart
MarkV
September 24th, 2012
11:19 pm
Iowa St Fair @11:16 pm
But she does it with such panache!
Iowa St Fair
September 24th, 2012
11:21 pm
Its great
Irony and hypocrisy must be her thing. She seems to relish in it. More power to her
Dusty
September 24th, 2012
11:25 pm
Whoopee gravy train,
You have now managed to bring in bigotry, discrimination and geriatric put downs. . Way to go fellow. Oh yes, and pedophilia!
LIberals may give you a blue ribbon for your confessions. You haven’t left a thing at the bottom of the barrel. Posted it all right here and you don’t even know any better.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
11:25 pm
I will never call you a moocher for using your tax breaks and collecting your social security. How can you support a man that wants to shame you for doing that? It’s almost like voting for that uncle you had when you were a boy. You know. That Uncle. The one that made you ashamed of your red hair. The one who told you that “It’s okay, this is what real Republicans do.” I’m sorry that happened to you Dusty. I’m sorry your mom ran off with that “liberal” who actually stimulated her mind. It’s not your fault. Say it with me. It’s not your fault. You can choose to be a victim or a survivor. We will support you even though you hate us. That’s the true test. We are all Americans here.
Dusty
September 24th, 2012
11:31 pm
G’nite Mark V
Just got back from that beyootiful ocean. So wonderful! Talk to you later….
Fred ™
September 25th, 2012
12:21 am
If charter schools are so wonderful why don’t we make ALL the schools “charter schools?”
Gravy Train
September 25th, 2012
1:24 am
Fred, you just might be on to something there.
TigerDawg65
September 25th, 2012
5:21 am
One would assume that state-created charter schools would have a 100% AYP rate.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 25th, 2012
6:05 am
While 100% would be nice and is a worthy, merely improving on the public schools miserable record, which Kyle has demonstrated is usually the case for charter schools, would be justification enough for establishing more charters.
Teachers unions and associations have had decades to improve their pathetic record of failure. They aren’t getting the job done.
It is time for change.
It is time to Vote American.
Ol' Timer
September 25th, 2012
6:52 am
If the public schools could cherry-pick their students and make the same demands on parents as the Charter Schools, then and only then could you make the comparisons. Everything is moot until both are playing on the same level field — which they don’t.
The money paid to these “for profit” Charter Schools should be spent in the public schools that are being financially strangled by Tea Party influenced politicians throughout the state.
Judy
September 25th, 2012
7:18 am
As an educator, I totally support charter schools. With decades of experience in the public schools, it is clear that parents need and deserve a choice. By the way, I am a democrat and happily agree with the wisdom of the republicans that support charter schools. Please tell me why Barge is not spending his time focusing on the graduation rate, closing the achievement gap between minorities and rural students and strategies to improve the SAT scores. Yes, we are in the South, but we can be innovative and do what’s best for children.
@@
September 25th, 2012
7:26 am
I’m always amused by the comments surrounding the charter school debate. Liberals go from a woman’s right to choose (abortion) to a woman’s denial to choose her child’s education.
From there they conclude that THEIR tax dollars shouldn’t be spent to educate someone else’s children in a school that parents choose.
Kinda like a flip FLOP.
I’m in agreement on the smaller class size. My daughter (Clayton County) chose to avoid the chaos by “applying” for AP classes. She had to work twice as hard to maintain her spot in those classes.
Call It Like It Is
September 25th, 2012
7:32 am
I will vote for it and for one reason only. Competition. Georgia ranks near the bottom of education every single year. Our strides are pitiful at best. We need to shake it up and see if this is the answer to help out our youth. If we have two entities fighting it out for the funds it just like any other business, the one that gives the best service “educating our children” will win. Unfortunately we can’t get rid of bad parents, but we now can force the issue to get rid of bad teachers. Can you imagine the competition to bring in the best teachers from around the country to make your school number one?
curious
September 25th, 2012
7:47 am
I hear continually how the Republican party is the party of smaller government.
I missed it.
Anybody able to name any aspects of our government that has become smaller when the Republicans were in power? No, talk without action doesn’t count.
Gravy Train
September 25th, 2012
8:14 am
Stop blaming teachers for the actions of bad parents. Union teachers can teach at a public charter school too. I haven’t met a single one that dislikes the situation after they have actually worked there, instead of making knee jerk reactions based on a very small sample size. “For profit” and faith based institutions are called private charter schools. Public charter schools are free from these problems and they DO NOT get to cherry pick their student populations. PUBLIC is the key word. Very slowly, my fellow Georgians are coming to realize two things about our education system: First: the war on taxes and trickle down economics not only kills our economy but it greatly diminishes the schools our children attend. Second: Public Charter Schools produce better students, teachers and parents because they all HAVE TO be on board. Ask any regular public school teacher about parental apathy and lack of funding if you don’t believe me.
JamVet
September 25th, 2012
8:30 am
http://blogs.ajc.com/mike-luckovich/2012/09/24/925-mike-luckovich-cartoon-pull-up/
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
September 25th, 2012
8:38 am
Gravy Train
You like many other Dems are hypocrites. You join the GOP in putting your children where they will get a great education, just like the Obama’s, Clinton’s, Rahm, Kennedy’s, etc, but rail against any reform of the public schools, for the good of common folks. Gotta support those failing public schools if you are a card carrying Democrat.
You need to walk the walk, if you believe all that liberal dogma.
curious
September 25th, 2012
8:44 am
Charter schools won’t be so great after all those under achieving students with disinterested parents begin attending.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 25th, 2012
8:51 am
Question on Mittens:
how would his religion steer his presidency?
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
September 25th, 2012
8:52 am
Gravy
If you think your kids are doing so well and the charter schools are doing a much better job than the public schools, just let your indoctrinated mind wander to the prospect of your children receiving a voucher for their share of the education budget. A voucher that would allow you to pick a school especially for them, one who emphasizes art, math, science, music, and you and them get to pick.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
September 25th, 2012
8:54 am
Finn, I guess “when the chickens come home to roost”, we will find out.
bob
September 25th, 2012
9:13 am
Old Timer, you blame funding problems on a two year old group, the tea party ? So prior to the tea party, say back 12 years ago when dems had total control, our schools were fully funded and zinging right along ? That’s some funny stuff and shows a very small, simple mind. I guess we didn’t have poverty until the tea party came along either right ? Let’s face it, our schools do a good job for the most part but many are filled with the spawn of LBJ’s great society legacy. Until dems quit rewarding the breeders we will have problems.
bconner
September 25th, 2012
9:17 am
I’ve always heard that Republicans value local control and less government….Why pressure legislators (and they were pressured) to vote to put this on the ballot when a process is already in place. The govenor and his cronnies want to go to the expense of adding an appointed commission to establish charter schools. Hipocrites one and all.