The real statistics for Georgia’s charter schools
Of all the worthless statistics that get thrown around in the charter-schools debate, perhaps the least important is the comparison between all charter schools and all traditional public schools statewide.
It’s a favorite figure among opponents of the constitutional amendment on this November’s ballot, which would affirm the state’s ability to create public charter schools. Among those who have trotted it out is state schools superintendent John Barge.
Here’s the statistic: In the 2010-11 school year, 73 percent of all Georgia public schools met the federally mandated adequate yearly progress, or AYP, while only 70 percent of all charter schools did.
With results like that, why bother with charter schools? Right?
While Barge and his fellow travelers in the educational establishment are correct about this figure, it is entirely meaningless in the current debate.
Utterly, wholly, completely meaningless. Irrelevant. Misleading, in fact.
For starters, that 73-to-70 comparison does not separate the charter schools approved by local school boards, which are not at issue in the November referendum, from those approved by the state, which are.
Reflect that key difference, and suddenly state-chartered schools have the advantage: 75 percent of them met AYP (this and the other more-detailed stats in this column come from the Governor’s Office of Student Achievement, also using data for 2010-11).
Still, even that doesn’t tell the whole story.
Not every part of the state has charter schools. They tend not to open in districts served by top-notch traditional public schools; the point of school choice is to help students in lower-performing areas.
Compare state-chartered schools only to the traditional public schools in the districts they serve, and they look even better. Traditional public schools in the districts served by these charters logged an AYP of just 67 percent — compared, again, to 75 percent for the state-chartered schools.
But even that doesn’t tell the whole story.
The advantage of some state-chartered schools over the traditional schools with which they compete is even starker when we look at the scores of racial and ethnic minorities.
Take Ivy Preparatory Academy, a school that received a state charter after the Gwinnett County school board rejected it. In meeting or exceeding state standards on the 2011 Criterion-Referenced Competency Test, black students at Ivy Prep outscored their counterparts in local traditional schools 93 percent to 79 percent. For Hispanic students, it was 88 percent to 80 percent. For Asian students, it was 97 percent to 81 percent.
And for those who say the state charter-schools amendment is only for the benefit of metro Atlanta: Don’t tell that to the students, parents and teachers at Charter Conservatory for Liberal Arts and Technology in Bulloch County, in southeast Georgia. CCAT recorded a graduation rate of 96 percent — compared to 69 percent in Bulloch County’s traditional high schools.
Not every state-chartered school performed higher in all aspects. But the beauty of charter schools is that the ones that don’t produce good results can be closed down, unlike bad traditional schools that keep failing students year after year.
That said, these are not trivial differences. You just won’t hear them from those who support the status quo of keeping students trapped in failing schools, stuck because of the establishment’s stubbornness.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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194 comments Add your comment
Don't Tread
September 24th, 2012
4:16 pm
Maybe we’ll have a little bit less horseplay with the test results from charter schools….just a thought.
Hillbilly D
September 24th, 2012
4:18 pm
I still don’t see how this applies to people who live in rural areas (like me). Many counties only have one high school and one middle school. So is that one school going to be a charter school or what we have now? Either way, no choice involved for the locals.
curious
September 24th, 2012
4:51 pm
Many rural counties will not have access to these Charter schools and they won’t be established because there isn’t enough money to be made/stolen by the for-profits bankrolling this.
Net result will be public schools getting worse and for profits getting richer.
The education of our “unwashed” masses has nothing to do with it.
Public education is what made this country great.
Jaynie
September 24th, 2012
4:53 pm
There is already a state Board of Education that can be appealed to if the county board turns down a charter school proposal. Conservatives are very much in favor of small goevernment except when they want something. I do not trust the state goverrnment to appoint a non-partisan board, with no accountability to voters, to spend my tax dollars on something local school boards do not want. if parents want a charter school badly enough, they can appeal to the state BOE. Every single time the state budget gets cut, education is one of the first things to take a hit. We want a better educated work force, but we don’t want to pay our educators or to fund enough educators to do the job properly. And I do mean educators, not adminstrators. We can use a few less admin folks and a whole lot more teachers who are compensated well, do not have to worry about discipline in their classrooms, don’t have to manage overcrowded classrooms because oops, we cut the budget again and decided to close a few schools. Teaching is a calling for most teachers because they could not be doing it for the money. Bottom line for me is that Georgia does not seem to care that much about educating her children. And, I don’t trust the state government to spend my tax dollars properly with an appointed board of someone’s cronies.
Jaynie
September 24th, 2012
4:54 pm
Enter your comments here
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
5:00 pm
Hillbilly, your local government can apply for a public charter. People who say subsidies do not exist at public charter schools are lying. My daughter and my nephew went to a public charter school and they had access to breakfast, lunch and after school programs all costing the same as any other public school.. Also, since parents have more involvement, the vendor actually provides nutritious meals, instead of vending machines full of junk food and soda. The children are required to wear a blue collared shirt and khakis for boys or a blue plaid short dress for girls. There is no shunning of those who can not afford designer clothes. The testing scores speak for themselves. Every child who lives within the district of the school is eligible for enrollment. The charter allows for these differences that normal public schools do not offer in most areas.
Hillbilly D
September 24th, 2012
5:01 pm
Public education is what made this country great.
I agree with that. The concept that anybody could get an education was the key to upward mobility for the vast majority of people.
Old timer
September 24th, 2012
5:05 pm
I am a supporter of charter schools and school choice. I do not believe in state interference in local affairs. It your school board does not approve good charter..,,elect new people.
Hillbilly D
September 24th, 2012
5:07 pm
Gravy Train
Yeah my local government can apply for a charter school but there’s still only enough money here to support one school. So either that one school is a charter school or it ain’t. We’re not going to have 2 schools. Property taxes (and 63% of my property tax bill goes for school taxes) would have to increase drastically and people here are already paying all they can afford. There’d be an open revolt, in my neck of the woods.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
5:12 pm
If you don’t think clothes and shoes are a huge cost because of children, you must not have children. Neither my daughter nor my nephew ever came home pining for the next best pair of anything except good shoes. True story. When I was in school, locker theft was a huge problem. Got a pair of Jordan’s? Better not take them off of your feet. That was the deal, I even witnessed fights over shoes and jackets. I had a part time job in high school and I save up to buy my very own pair of Jordan’s. They were white with black patent leather trim and concord soles. I wore them to school twice. There was nowhere safe to keep them after we dressed out for gym. Lockers can be opened by those who want the shoes bad enough. I really bought them specifically for my community sponsored church league basketball team. We lost one game that season and I was running on Cadillacs. LOL
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
5:16 pm
Well Hillbilly, I think the money would come from a state tax pool, since it is a state chartered school. So as soon as people like Willard decide to grace us with the money they actually owe, we will have more money to apply to those charters. I promise you that you will not want to go back to the old way once you see it done right. Forward, my friend.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
5:23 pm
Kyle, if Willard is so serious about getting tough on China, why does he do so much business with them? If some one is shafting you, do you reward them with jobs? Why are we continuing to do business with one of the most oppressive communist regimes in the history of the world? It doesn’t sound very American to me.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
5:25 pm
I thought you ditto-heads were bat dung crazy about commies!? Where is the outrage?
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
5:29 pm
Ah, Willard, you waffling, cowardly thief. I don’t have to look far for ammo, he gives it to me every day. In the words of Darth Vader “It’s all too easy.” And I didn’t even mention his “priesthood” in the cult of Joseph Smith. Oooops!
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 24th, 2012
6:07 pm
I do not wish to see [traditional public schools] supplanted by schools which may end up being managed by for-profit management companies.
—————–
If the for-profit companies do a better job than the for-personal-profit public schools, why not?
Afraid of a little competition?
Greedy teachers unions and associations are the problem.
Just Saying..
September 24th, 2012
6:15 pm
Mary Elizabeth @ 11:57 & 12:20:
Thank you, for your two literate posts, and for your tone of reason, contributions not often found here. And if bp is an issue, no wonder your visits here are limited.
Peace
September 24th, 2012
6:16 pm
If the charter schools amendment is approved, and the state provides the funding for new charters approved by the commission, where will the state get the funding? Will the revenue basically come from the same pockets that fund the BOEs’ local share for both traditional public and BOE-approved charter schools?
Mary Elizabeth
September 24th, 2012
6:21 pm
Just Saying, 6:15
Thank you for your gracious comments. Much appreciated. Btw, blood pressure, back to normal!
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 24th, 2012
6:24 pm
Peace: where will the state get the funding?
———————-
Hopefully they’ll get it by reducing funding to the schools that lose students. What sense would it make to maintain the same spending on a school with half as many students as it used to have?
bluecoat
September 24th, 2012
6:26 pm
Linda Schlomer–the work they are doing now is a grade higher THEN the local school system-Then Lil Barry shows up a few post later.
bluecoat
September 24th, 2012
6:31 pm
The corporation charters will be about like the private prison for profit systems.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 24th, 2012
6:34 pm
If you don’t like the high-achieving for-profit charter school, keep your kid in the local public school. Problem solved.
Streetracer
September 24th, 2012
7:11 pm
The point is still,that a student who doesn’t care won’t get educated no matter what the school structure is. Without parental/student expectation and student work ethic no education reforms are going to do much.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
7:12 pm
They can not be allowed to be controlled by any corporation if it is a public charter school. The community and the parents have the real power.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
7:14 pm
Streetracer, students that are given more specialized attention are far more likely to get involved.
Under the bus
September 24th, 2012
7:14 pm
Kyle, I don’tknow what school system you work for that has money left over at the end of the year, but it certainly isn’t in Georgia. Students are not even going the traditional 180 days because there isn’t enough money to operate school.
Also, could you explain to me why we have local school boards if the state is going to make decisions for them? Should one group of elected officials tell another group of elected officials what they are going to do?
Thank you for your consideration of my questions.
Mr_B
September 24th, 2012
7:15 pm
Kyle: “Don’t tell that to the students, parents and teachers at Charter Conservatory for Liberal Arts and Technology in Bulloch County, in southeast Georgia. CCAT recorded a graduation rate of 96 percent”
“When CCAT opened, it served grades three through twelve. It now serves grades six through twelve, and has around 145 students. The school is led by Superintendent/Principal Corliss Reese.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_Conservatory_for_Liberal_Arts_and_Technology
Which means a senior class of about 20 or so students. I teach most of the senior class in my rural school, a little over 100 student, plus about another 40 sophomores. Give me a class size like that and I’ll graduate all of them.
bluecoat
September 24th, 2012
7:16 pm
Keep your money at home.Not paying some out of state corp.a profit and a reason to lobby you reps..,and create temptations
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
7:16 pm
Some students grasp concepts faster than others, specialized attention from teachers allows the slower students to catch up. Otherwise, they tend to give up and get left behind.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
7:19 pm
Exactly, Mr. B. Smaller class sizes and required parental participation are exactly what is needed.
Mr_B
September 24th, 2012
7:19 pm
Lil’ Barry: ever hear of economies of scale? Try Econ 101 at your locally funded and operated public school.
mike
September 24th, 2012
7:30 pm
President Barack Obama now has a 77.6% of winning the presidency in November.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/24/the-statistical-state-of-the-presidential-race/
What are we going to do now? What are we going to do now?
mike
September 24th, 2012
7:41 pm
George W. Bush is the real drag on Romney
On Thursday, CNN released a revealing poll. It asked people this question: “Do you think the policies of Barack Obama and the Democrats or George W. Bush and the Republicans are more responsible for the country’s current economic problems?”
Remarkably, 54 per cent of “likely voters” put primary blame on Mr Bush and the Republicans versus only 38 per cent who blame Mr Obama and the Democrats. Among registered voters, the disparity is even larger, with 57 per cent blaming Mr Bush and only 35 per cent Mr Obama.
http://blogs.ft.com/the-a-list/2012/09/14/george-w-bush-is-the-real-drag-on-romney/
Hard to fly when you have an anchor around your neck.
Del
September 24th, 2012
7:43 pm
When you have a public school system in NYC dispensing “Plan B” morning after pills to 14 year old students at their request, it’s only one of many travesties we learn about. It seems like we read about public schools and teachers nationally on a daily basis dabbling in social issues rather than effectively teaching our children. Time for serious reform in our public school systems nationally and taking an objective look at the learning benefit potentials through charter schools.
Mary Elizabeth
September 24th, 2012
7:54 pm
Gravy Train, 7:16 pm
“Some students grasp concepts faster than others, specialized attention from teachers allows the slower students to catch up. Otherwise, they tend to give up and get left behind.”
————————————————————–
This is so true!
I, also, agree with you that smaller classes make a big difference in how well students are able to absorb the curriculum with mastery, especially with students in grades k – 3, and with all at-risk students in any grade. In terms of parental involvement, I also agree with you. I want to say that I think teachers should try never to judge parents, but simply to keep encouraging them to participate. I discovered, in my 35 years of teaching, that there are myriads of reasons why parents may not participate. I taught students of all races and ethnic groups, as well as students from all class status levels and economic backgrounds. These educational principles hold true in all situations.
Del
September 24th, 2012
7:56 pm
Off topic…so we have the Obummer and his Mrs. Obummer on the ‘View”. This man is a fraud whose manipulated by the hard-left but he get by somehow. Obama reminds me of Chance the Gardener in the old Peter Sellers movie “Being There”. Will the American people be fooled yet again? We’ll soon learn the answer to that question.
Mr_B
September 24th, 2012
8:16 pm
“Will the American people be fooled yet again? We’ll soon learn the answer to that question.”
Answer: No they won’t. Mr. Obama will be re-elected.
This simple answer to a simple question brought to you by an American public school teacher.
Del
September 24th, 2012
8:23 pm
“This simple answer to a simple question brought to you by an American public school teacher.”
You reenforce my 7:43pm.
Real Athens
September 24th, 2012
8:25 pm
Hillbilly:
Some teachers from rural areas in south Georgia have ideas for making the much needed changes to public schools without instituting an “alternative” public school system that competes for the same dwindling tax dollars allocated to them. I think they have a sensible approach.
http://empoweredga.org/OurBeliefs/beliefs.html
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 24th, 2012
8:28 pm
Public schools have become just another means for big government to indoctrinate the young to believe the government should be providing…shelter, food, birth control, after school care…public schools are of, by, and for losers, and to perpetuate loserdom.
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
September 24th, 2012
8:29 pm
Gravy Train,
You surprised me, you are right on with your charter school analysis. Self reliance, getting everyone involved, everyone with skin in the game, less government involvement, and individual responsibility work every time.
If you were consistent, you would apply this same wisdom to other areas involving government, and using sound logic, quickly determine that you are a full fledged Republican.
Real Athens
September 24th, 2012
8:38 pm
Del:
Chauncey Gardner was a character portrayed by Peter Sellers in a movie based on the novel “Being There” by Jerzy Kosinski. A character that was influenced by no one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Kosinski
You obviously don’t have an idea what the premise of the story is about. However, that doesn’t stop you from injecting it into some off topic response that makes you appear foolish and dull witted. You might notice that Jerzy Kosinski was instrumental in P.E.N. which makes your comment even more mind numbing and insignificant regarding that you’re on a blog that today is about education.
You, reinforce the old adage: “It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
Dave
September 24th, 2012
8:45 pm
I got this far in your piece: “fellow travelers” and quit. Barge is an early 50’s commie sympathizer? No he isn’t, then or now. So your point is to disparage him without any basis? Bad work.
Dusty
September 24th, 2012
9:27 pm
Amazing, really….take public funds from public schools and make private charters that will end up eventually with the same educational levels and neither with enough funds. You will still have the same parents and the same teachers and the same smart and stupid students.
You want something “special”? Pay for it yourself in a private school run by business people without state funds. .
Make public schools better and without frills. Raise educational requirements for teachers. Cut out the buffet line for lunch and provide no breakfast. Provide truant officers for children and parents. Make parents responsible for the feeding, the homework, the manners and the misbehaving of their children. Schools were meant for education, not nursery care or parent replacements or sport centers.
Also, if you want to make educational comments do NOT mention former presidents or make judgments on presidential candidates like you were paid to do just that.. It makes your “school” comments as shallow as the shore line at low tide.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
9:39 pm
Lil’ Brain said: Public schools have become just another means for big government to indoctrinate the young to believe the government should be providing…shelter, food, birth control, after school care…public schools are of, by, and for losers, and to perpetuate loserdom.
Xenophobic paranoia is one of the many “turn-offs” college educated people see when they look at the current degeneration of the GOP. They have let plutocrats and the morons who blindly follow them define their party. I keep asking Kyle to address this trend. Lack of new recruits within the GOP ranks and the plutocratic influences contributing to that trend. I suspect that he is trying his hardest to project “party unity” for Willard’s sake. Alas, even poor Kyle is waving the white flag. It’s time to circle the wagons, Kyle. Purge the ugliness from your ranks or not. I prefer that you don’t, I love watching landslide victories for real patriots and real Americans. You can keep your paranoid xenophobes and your plutocrat puppets. At least do a more convincing job of owning them if you wish to continue your existence as a plutocratic mouthpiece. Either way, show some pride.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
9:42 pm
No sir, Mr. Rafe, I am a realist and I am an American, nothing more, nothing less.
mike
September 24th, 2012
9:45 pm
Dang these liberal commenters! It’s getting so us Right-Wing Nutcases can’t hardly post without being bothered to death by them! What are we going to do? What can we go?
Redstate.com is ready when you are. They don’t allow liberal posters.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 24th, 2012
9:45 pm
Someone must not know what “xenophobic” means. Probably went to public schools.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
9:53 pm
mike, you are a comedic genius. The one about the dummies in your barn has me snickering every time I think about it. I think we could put together a radio show and give fat head Boortz a run for his money. At least we would give some actual factual information, and be dammed entertaining in the process. They give us fresh material daily. Like shooting fish in a barrel. We should see if 750 really believes in “equal airtime.” What do you say? Let’s see if we can get Linda’s head to explode! You know how quickly we would light up a switch board, generate web hits, have advertisers salivating.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
9:54 pm
Sure I do: xenophobic: see Lil’ Brain. Enough said.