The real statistics for Georgia’s charter schools
Of all the worthless statistics that get thrown around in the charter-schools debate, perhaps the least important is the comparison between all charter schools and all traditional public schools statewide.
It’s a favorite figure among opponents of the constitutional amendment on this November’s ballot, which would affirm the state’s ability to create public charter schools. Among those who have trotted it out is state schools superintendent John Barge.
Here’s the statistic: In the 2010-11 school year, 73 percent of all Georgia public schools met the federally mandated adequate yearly progress, or AYP, while only 70 percent of all charter schools did.
With results like that, why bother with charter schools? Right?
While Barge and his fellow travelers in the educational establishment are correct about this figure, it is entirely meaningless in the current debate.
Utterly, wholly, completely meaningless. Irrelevant. Misleading, in fact.
For starters, that 73-to-70 comparison does not separate the charter schools approved by local school boards, which are not at issue in the November referendum, from those approved by the state, which are.
Reflect that key difference, and suddenly state-chartered schools have the advantage: 75 percent of them met AYP (this and the other more-detailed stats in this column come from the Governor’s Office of Student Achievement, also using data for 2010-11).
Still, even that doesn’t tell the whole story.
Not every part of the state has charter schools. They tend not to open in districts served by top-notch traditional public schools; the point of school choice is to help students in lower-performing areas.
Compare state-chartered schools only to the traditional public schools in the districts they serve, and they look even better. Traditional public schools in the districts served by these charters logged an AYP of just 67 percent — compared, again, to 75 percent for the state-chartered schools.
But even that doesn’t tell the whole story.
The advantage of some state-chartered schools over the traditional schools with which they compete is even starker when we look at the scores of racial and ethnic minorities.
Take Ivy Preparatory Academy, a school that received a state charter after the Gwinnett County school board rejected it. In meeting or exceeding state standards on the 2011 Criterion-Referenced Competency Test, black students at Ivy Prep outscored their counterparts in local traditional schools 93 percent to 79 percent. For Hispanic students, it was 88 percent to 80 percent. For Asian students, it was 97 percent to 81 percent.
And for those who say the state charter-schools amendment is only for the benefit of metro Atlanta: Don’t tell that to the students, parents and teachers at Charter Conservatory for Liberal Arts and Technology in Bulloch County, in southeast Georgia. CCAT recorded a graduation rate of 96 percent — compared to 69 percent in Bulloch County’s traditional high schools.
Not every state-chartered school performed higher in all aspects. But the beauty of charter schools is that the ones that don’t produce good results can be closed down, unlike bad traditional schools that keep failing students year after year.
That said, these are not trivial differences. You just won’t hear them from those who support the status quo of keeping students trapped in failing schools, stuck because of the establishment’s stubbornness.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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194 comments Add your comment
JamVet
September 24th, 2012
12:31 pm
Listen up Republicans, keep your hands out of my wallet.
I don’t care if you want to send Johnny and Susie to a Madrasah or a Jesus factory somewhere. (seriously)
Just don’t ask me to subsidize them…
sailfish
September 24th, 2012
12:32 pm
**Milton Friedman’s 1955 article, “The Role of Government in Education,” argued for a voucher system that would allow parents to purchase the school of their choice for their children. Just as Friedman’s supply-side free-market beliefs have been proven wrong, so also the notion of privatizing education is doomed to failure.
The evidence against charter schools is overwhelming. Their relative ineffectiveness is documented by studies from Stanford University, the Department of Education, Johns Hopkins University, and the RAND Corporation.
In addition to their poor performance, charters are more segregated, less likely to accept students with disabilities, and conducive to a widening of the racial and rich-poor education gaps.
Also, charter school teachers have less experience, and their turnover rate is higher.
Yet the media-supported myth of school privatization persists. Charters sustain this myth, according to noted education scholar Diane Ravitch, by “skimming off” the most motivated students from disadvantaged neighborhoods. They claim to select students randomly. But a study of the highly regarded KIPP Charter School chain shows a pattern of “selective attrition” in which underperforming students are “counseled out.” About half of Kipp’s students leave between the 5th and 8th grades.
Charters can pull off their charade of success, because the privatization myth keeps disillusioned parents waiting at their front doors. There are currently about two million students in 5,600 charter schools throughout the U.S., with 600,000 children on the waiting lists.
In the end, perhaps the strongest argument against charter schools is that they’ve never been scaled up to a level that accommodates the majority of students. The profit motive wouldn’t allow such equality of opportunity without drastic cutbacks in teacher salaries and student support costs. After all, the people at the top need to grab their salaries first.**
Charter schools just another way to attempt to destroy the public schools in the U.S.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
12:36 pm
I also think that instead of throwing more tax cuts Willard’s way, we reward parents who participate in their children’s education. There would never be a shortage of parents attendance again. Plus, people like to live in places with great schools. Local Real Estate starts moving again. More Jobs!
It really is this simple.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
12:42 pm
They got their bail outs and their TARPS. Our money. If they wont spend it, we take it back. It’s OUR money.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
12:46 pm
You guys are using the private model to argue against the public model. Apples and Oranges. Public means no segregation nor forced religion of any persuasion. If this is to be done, it has to include these minimum standards for access to public funds.
Cheryl Krichbaum
September 24th, 2012
12:47 pm
@ LoganvilleResident 10:49 am, Although I agree that it would be great to have statistics on how a child’s performance changes from traditional to public, I don’t see that as realistic. It’s the parents’ job to monitor, and parents of children in charter schools do. If they don’t like how it’s going, they move their children to another school. This is about CHOICE! And there’s very little choice in GA – it’s getting a tiny bit better but still nothing compared to the open enrollment we experienced in another state. I’m a parent of a special needs child enrolled in a charter school, and I’m very happy.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
12:50 pm
I challenge anyone to show me evidence that smaller class sizes do not produce better results. Public Charter Schools already exist. Use them as the model.
Road Scholar
September 24th, 2012
12:57 pm
“Essentially, all of the “good” students move and leave the public school to struggle”
This is a difficult issue when looking at achievement. Why should “good’ students be penalized because others lack the ability or motivation to learn? I applaud any youth that can “see” what the future could be and work positively towards achievement.
But the issue is the decision making and who does it. The repubs want smaller government, but are proposing to add another layer. What happened to all politics is local? What happened to those closest to the problem know better? What happened to smaller government?
These charter schools allegedly do not take funds from the other schools, so where do the charter school funds come from? Out of state donors? Now that would be interesting…not to fund a vote, but to pay the schools bills!
If the charter schools are so good, apply the concept across the board to all schools: uniforms, discipline,ramifications for actions, adequate teachers, one on one instruction (if needed), mentoring, lower class sizes, adequate facilities and supplies, leadership etc.. Send the non performers, esp the trouble maker’s to boot camp. Let them see that their performance is not good enough and more is expected. Make family participation in education mandatory; fine the parents for not doing their job!!!! Define the parents’ responsibilities and expectations. Teach the parents!
It’s been said before…that you have to take a test to drive a car but none to have children…to have the ability to support and provide positive guidance.
But back to the real issue: who should make this decision…the local school board.
Kyle Wingfield
September 24th, 2012
1:00 pm
bluecoat @ 11:44: As I previously explained, the reasoning in the court ruling that threw out the erstwhile state charter commission also threatens the state board’s ability to approve charter schools. It just hasn’t been challenged in court yet.
Kyle Wingfield
September 24th, 2012
1:04 pm
JamVet: You’re already subsidizing them. This changes nothing. In fact, it lowers the amount of money per pupil spent. So if you really don’t care — and I don’t buy it, frankly — then you should be in favor of this.
JF McNamara
September 24th, 2012
1:10 pm
@Road Scholar,
You took that line out of context. It was specifically meant in the context of making sure that we have accurate results as to whether it works or not.
“Essentially, all of the “good” students move and leave the public school to struggle”
mountain man
September 24th, 2012
1:16 pm
“because the privatization myth keeps disillusioned parents waiting at their front doors”
And why are these parents “disillusioned” – because the local public school will not address the problems within its own system!
mountain man
September 24th, 2012
1:21 pm
“so also the notion of privatizing education is doomed to failure.”
We are not talking about total privatization of the public school system. We are talking about the ability to create alternatives for CHOICE.
If the public schools are doing a good job, then no charter could ever hope to compete. Ever see any Walton High School or Pope High School students leaving for a charter?
Cheryl Krichbaum
September 24th, 2012
1:21 pm
@ Mary Elizabeth 10:38 am, The money coming in from out of state shows that there’s a national interest in improving education in the USA. Georgia is doing something to get out of the #48 slot. If Georgia is successful, then other states will be motivated to improve as well. The USA’s ranking is not what it used to be. It’s of national interest that EVERY STATE improve its education.
mountain man
September 24th, 2012
1:22 pm
Charters would give parents an alternative to moving them and their family to a house in a good school district (which is what most people do).
Cheryl Krichbaum
September 24th, 2012
1:24 pm
@Road Scholar 12:57 pm, Who should make the decision? PARENTS.
mountain man
September 24th, 2012
1:25 pm
“Essentially, all of the “good” students move and leave the public school to struggle”
Which is exactly what happens with “white flight”. Charters would give an option to improve schools (since they don’t seem to want to improve on their own).
LoganvilleResident
September 24th, 2012
1:34 pm
@Cheryl,
I applaud the fact that you advocate and look out for the best interests regarding your child. If more people would do that, perhaps the education system would not be in a crisis in the first place.
However, in reality, you are telling me that *I* should willingly cede local control over taxes so that *you* have the option to send your child to the school of your choice. This is where my main issue is with the amendment as proposed. I don’t pay school taxes for *your* child to receive a top-notch education. I pay school taxes for *all* children to receive a top-notch education. I believe aside from funding things such as the military, the government’s other primary focus should be to provide all children with the best education possible. This would enable them to care for themselves and not be a drain on society.
I know that the one size fits all approach of the local school system does not work for every student. I know that there are schools that are struggling to provide even the most basic education for students. I know that we need to come up with viable alternatives to improve education.
However, I also know this… The decline of local school systems seems to be worsened by increasing state and federal regulation. This amendment wants to exercise even MORE state control over education. I think they have sufficiently proven that the only effect they have is to cause further decline in public school performance. Why would I want to continue that trend?
Cheryl Krichbaum
September 24th, 2012
1:34 pm
I’m a parent of a special needs child, and I took him out of traditional public school because they weren’t meeting his needs. Now we’re in a charter school that is meeting his needs, and he’s doing exceptionally well. The vote is about PARENT CHOICE. One size does not fit all.
Cheryl Krichbaum
September 24th, 2012
1:39 pm
@LoganvilleResident 1:34 pm, this amendment is about choice. What we really need is open enrollment. Passing the charter amendment is a step in the right direction. With choice, you get what you want, and I get what I want.
And I am happy to work with the local schools for improvement, but I can’t do that if I’m homeschooling my child because there is no local option appropriate for my child. My child comes first, and I will not have him suffer through the system that needs years to make discernible changes.
yuzeyurbrane
September 24th, 2012
1:39 pm
Kyle, show me more data re your assertion that state charter schools will not get more state aid than traditional public schools and that in fact traditional public schools will have their finances improved through less students. Do you distinguish fixed from incremental costs of running a school system? Do you figure in capital expenses and amortization? Who is providing capital for buildings, etc. for state charters? How much will that be? Is that included in your calculations? What will class sizes be and need for teachers? Have you included pension and healthcare costs? How much reliance on online education? And in what manner? My guess is savings, if any, will be quite a bit smaller than you imply unless quality is ultimately hurt in order to maximize profits for the for profit education vendors or as ruse to save state more money. Where do you stand on continuing local school boards as vehicle for citizen control?
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
1:41 pm
Amen, mountain man! Sounds like we might live close to one another. We know full well what smaller class sizes and active parent support can accomplish. I wouldn’t mind seeing a dress code. These “skinny jeans” or the alter ego “saggy jeans” and what not are ridiculous, frankly. Many of our youth choose to leave home in night club attire or slavish pop culture crap. Think of how much money parents would save on clothing costs alone. I have seen it happen.
Kyle Wingfield
September 24th, 2012
1:42 pm
Loganville @ 1:34: ” I pay school taxes for *all* children to receive a top-notch education.”
Right now, in Georgia, no one in their right mind can argue that’s happening. And the same people failing to deliver that are the ones arguing competition is a bad thing.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
1:43 pm
We have to acknowledge that the old way of doing things no longer works. Forward!
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
1:49 pm
Remember when you were in school and all of the “cool” kids just had to wear (Insert Name Brand Here) clothes. Remember how expensive it was, especially to be worn for a year at the most? School dress codes eliminate costs and clothing discrimination.
Kyle Wingfield
September 24th, 2012
1:53 pm
yuze @ 1:39: I never said they would not get more state aid. I said the per-pupil spending would be lower, which is true.
re: fixed vs. incremental: Generally speaking: State money is supposed to fund instructional costs, i.e. the incremental — there’s no difference between this and if a child moves from Dalton to Valdosta. Local money funds the fixed. There is zero change in the local funding, so there should be no shortage — and it’s possible, if a significant number of kids leave, that the fixed costs could be reduced. The local districts should be no worse off than now, and possibly better off.
re: capital expenses: Generally speaking: Charters don’t build their own facilities. They rent them, which is included in the per-pupil spending I mentioned.
re: class sizes and need for teachers: It will vary.
re: pension and health care costs: They’re included on a per-pupil basis the same way traditional schools’ are.
re: how much reliance on online education and in what manner: A lot, I hope. Traditional schools have spent a lot of money on technology, much of it unproductively. The quality and options in online learning — I’ll phrase it more broadly: digital learning — are increasing to the point we really need to use them to maximize what we’re getting out of the money we’re spending.
re: profits: I wrote this earlier, but we already have profits — money above and beyond operating costs — in the bureaucratic bloat of most school districts. And we already have outsourcing/contracting by traditional schools with for-profit companies: for construction, for textbooks, for curricula. Why is it all of a sudden a problem to outsource the administration of a school to a private company?
re: local school boards: They’re not going away. And they’re still going to run the schools that serve the vast majority of students in this state. But they need some competition. If you think otherwise, name another publicly funded monopoly you would support.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
1:55 pm
See Kyle, we CAN agree on things. We just need to make sure that when we work together that no one is left behind. Open enrollment looks viable as does restrictions against discrimination and religious affiliation and large class sizes. It’s our job as citizens.
Linda Schlomer
September 24th, 2012
1:57 pm
I have two children that attend a state approved charter school. They have in the past attended the local county run schools. This is their second year. Since they started attending the charter school their grades have gone up. Both of them were honor roll students all year last year. At the local schools they made C’s and some time B’s. The work that they are doing now is a grade higher then the local school systems. Last year, my 6th grader was doing the same math work as his 7th grader local attending school friend was doing. I DO NOT pay for them to attend as their charter school is also a public school. Their school does take students regardless of their ability. They provide them with the same education as the brick and mortar schools would with the one exception. The parents know that their kids aren’t going to get abused, made fun of or any thing else that has been done at your local brick and mortar school. My kids don’t have to worry about being bullied and the schools not stopping it. I don’t have to worry about some kid bringing a gun to school to shoot up the school because another kid or kids were making fun of them or stole their girlfriend or boyfriend from them. I don’t have to worry about drugs nor gangs. Now if the local schools would get a handle on all of that along with making sure that my child has the best education that they can get regardless of what type of neighborhood the school is in or how much money the parents make then my kids would attend the local b&m school. But the schools can’t do that. If you don’t live in a well off neighborhood it is like oh well you deserve what you get, your child does not deserve a good education.
Everybody wants to blame the local schools not having enough money on the fact that there are state approved charter schools and they are taking students out of the local schools. Why don’t we really put the blame where it really belongs. Look around you, take a good look around you. How many houses are foreclosed on and sitting empty? If houses are sitting empty and owned by the banks that means no property taxes are being paid. If property taxes aren’t being paid then that means less money that is going to the schools. People who rent, they pay no property taxes and their kids attend the local schools. I own a house, MY property taxes the part that goes to the local schools is going to support a school that my children don’t even attend.
I will vote yes because I feel that a parent should have the right to decide where their child goes to school. I feel that a student who lives in the ghetto should have the same chance of getting a quality education as the student who lives beside the governor.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
2:03 pm
Linda Schlomer, please tell me you are not the Linda that lives on Kyle’s blogs. Because that was stated beautifully. Nothing sounds better than the truth if you really want to fix the problems.
LoganvilleResident
September 24th, 2012
2:04 pm
@Linda:
If you truly believe that your child is not going to be exposed to bullying, drugs and/or weapons because they are attending a charter school, you are not being realistic.
I won’t tell you that you haven’t seen academic improvement because that is for you to judge. I won’t tell you that your kids aren’t doing better or that you’re not happier with where your kids or at.. because again that is for you to judge.
However, I’d almost be willing to wager that drugs are found at even the best of schools. I’d also be willing to bet there are mean kids that say mean things (aka bullying) even at the best of schools.
Peace
September 24th, 2012
2:12 pm
Kyle: You should take a look at what is happening in Greene County (Greensboro) GA. The Lake Oconee Academy charter school’s authorities are asking for $20 million (after reducing the funding request from $30 million) to expand that facility. This is coming at a time when the local BOE has announced a 25 percent hike in its tax rate. In this particular case, it seems that the Greene County BOE has essentially declared the existing public school system a failure. However, taxpayers will remain responsible for funding the ‘public’ schools as well as the LOA charter. It seems to me that the charter school business is one method of gaining ‘private school’ status … and passing the bill along to a county’s taxpayers. At least the parents who send their children to Nathaniel Greene Academy and Gateway pay their own way, while not robbing the pockets of already overburdened property owners. By a 3-2 vote, the Greene BOE agreed to place the expansion funding request before the voters. I don’t have to tell you how I will vote.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
2:13 pm
This is your best post yet, Kyle. I will wait for you to unleash your inner hero and take on the plutocrats another day. Bravo, sir.
Kyle Wingfield
September 24th, 2012
2:19 pm
Peace @ 2:12: Lake Oconee Academy was chartered by the local school board, not the state, so it’s not the kind of school at issue here.
old teach
September 24th, 2012
2:26 pm
Once again–Board established charter schools already exist in Georgia. And parents have a process available to get a charter school established in areas where they don’t exist. This amendment creates a redundant/not elected and not answerable-to-the-local-electorate state board to establish charter schools.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
2:32 pm
There was a valid point raised about the infiltration of drugs in our schools. Unfortunately, unless we a willing to search our kids before they enter the school, it will continue. As for the “bullying” issue, I’ll again defer to one Willard Romney, the man who was once the privileged teen in an exclusive school, who led the charge to forcibly restrain another student and shave his head because of a perceived “weakness.” This is the man the plutocracy has chosen. And why not? He is the poster boy of their practices.
mountain man
September 24th, 2012
2:34 pm
“If houses are sitting empty and owned by the banks that means no property taxes are being paid.”
Uh, exactly why is that? The bank STILL owes taxes for a house it has foreclosed on. If the county is losing money this way, they should place a tax lien on the property, which has to be paid at sale.
Gravy Train
September 24th, 2012
2:38 pm
It was really that Willard was jealous that he didn’t have naturally flowing blonde hair like his god Joseph Smith. For anyone who cares to gander further into the core beliefs of Willard Romney, please research Joseph Smith. Be sure to get the factual account as opposed to the crafted LDS version.
Kyle Wingfield
September 24th, 2012
2:52 pm
old teach @ 2:26: And, once again: That appeals process is not any more constitutional than the old commission, if you read the Supreme Court’s ruling striking down the commission. The only difference is that the BOE appeals process hasn’t been challenged in court yet.
Hillbilly D
September 24th, 2012
2:57 pm
In late November, can you please please please stop writing about the presidential campaign?
Of course not, the 2016 campaign will be up and going by then.
JF McNamara
September 24th, 2012
3:02 pm
@Linda Schlomer,
I get your point but you got a few things wrong.
People who rent do pay property taxes. They pay the landlord, and the landlord pays the taxes. They pay the exact same amount of tax as you do. The bank is also liable for the taxes in a foreclosure situation.
You can’t predict a school shooting. Almost all of the school shootings occurred in white, suburban schools like Columbine and Pearl. The only school shootings to ever occur in Georgia occurred in Conyers in 1999 and Scottdale in 1996. If you fear a school shooting, its irrational. There hasn’t been one in 12 years and prior to 1996, when there was an outburst around the country, there hadn’t ever been one.
Kids are going to get bullied anywhere they go. You would be better off parenting than running.
You can’t actually tell if your kids have improved using anecdotal evidence. Have the state sponsored standardized scores actually improved?
Hillbilly D
September 24th, 2012
3:09 pm
Kids are going to get bullied anywhere they go.
This is true. The best way to deal with a bully is to bloody his/her nose and kids need to be taught that. Of course, that runs afoul of the “zero tolerance” non-sense.
Reality
September 24th, 2012
3:09 pm
Charter schools do not work. Look south to the State of Florida to see how their Charter schools (and use of vouchers) have worked….. you will find out how much they have dramatically decreased education in Florida.
The ONLY reason the noise for Charter schools exist is because of the PROFITS that the corporations can make from our tax dollars.
Georgia will likely follow in the footsteps of failed policies in Florida. Why do we do this?
3schoolkids
September 24th, 2012
3:23 pm
I keep hearing that non-performing charters will be shut down but I’ve yet to find one that was actually shut down for non-performing.
@Kyle can you find some to quote for us?
Can you find just one Georgia Charter that has had its charter terminated for not performing to academic standards? How about other states with a large number of charters, can you find some that were actually closed by the authorizer of the charter?
Do you believe that parents of students attending a non-performing charter should be notified in writing by the school? Not a report with a nondescript title posted on the DOE website but an actual notification to parents?
catlady
September 24th, 2012
3:28 pm
There are overt filters, such as behavior or parental requirements. Then, and more importantly, there are the hidden filters: finding out about the school, applying to the school, supplying the required paperwork, and (usually)providing your own transportation and lunch and breakfast (no subsidized lunch). Until and unless these hidden filters are negated, charter schools enjoy an advantage that traditional public schools must meet for ALL students. (Did you know that if a child is homeless and goes to live in another system, the former system has to provide free transportation to the “old” school? Gwinnett sends buses to many other counties to pick up and return kids who have moved due to homelessness. Show me a charter school that will do that!)
yuzeyurbrane
September 24th, 2012
3:39 pm
Gravy Train, I don’t think Linda Schlomer is our friend Linda the uberposter. For one thing, Linda S. sounds rational. For another, Linda S. has school age children while uberposter Linda claims to be a retiree’s age and self-employed businesswoman. But I am glad you pointed out the possibility of confusion to Linda S. If I were her, I would not want people to confuse me with the other Linda if she expects others to take her seriously.
catlady
September 24th, 2012
3:49 pm
Kyle@11:18: Check into the facts and you will see that the state BOE has been promising this tracking program hundreds of millions of dollars and over a decade ago. Find out to whom the money has gone, and who has been held accountable for these millions.
Reasonable man
September 24th, 2012
3:51 pm
Why have charter schools? Why not just work to make all schools good schools? It’s worked for most of the country’s history and didn’t really break down until some people started fleeing to the suburbs to avoid integration and the idiotic use of busing to balance out demographics. Assuming there’s been some progress in racial attitudes in the country, why don’t all people work together to improve their public, non-charter, schools?
ByteMe - Got ilk?
September 24th, 2012
3:53 pm
Of course not, the 2016 campaign will be up and going by then.
Oh, man, trash my dream of peace and quiet, why don’t you?
Rafe Hollister, suffering through Oblamer's ineptocracy
September 24th, 2012
3:57 pm
I have talked with many parents whose kids are in Charter Schools. None of them want to return to the public schools. Nuff said for me, since they do not cost anymore per pupil than the public schools.
They all point out the disadvantages, but think more parent involvement, smaller classes, more emphasis on academics, better teacher evaluations, better organized, less discipline problems, etc out weigh any disadvantages.
Real Athens
September 24th, 2012
4:12 pm
Who is really behind the charter schools amendments, legislation, etc. across the country? The majority of the money for the pro-amendment doesn’t come from Georgia.
Who is paying for it? Why do they care?
http://dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=3781