It’s the spending! Romney muddles the message on non-taxpayers
Politicians are not always good at the “telephone” game. Witness Mitt Romney.
“Telephone,” as you may remember from your childhood, is the game in which one person whispers a phrase to another person, who whispers it to another, and so on, until the last person in line. When the message reaches the final set of ears, it’s usually been misspoken so many times as to be unrecognizable to the original speaker.
That game came to mind this week when a video surfaced, depicting Romney speaking at a May 17 fund-raiser in Boca Raton, Fla. Romney is recorded saying, in part:
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what …
And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49 — he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax.
All this was by way of explaining why he would not even attempt to sell these Americans on his message of low taxes against Obama’s plan to soak the rich.
After this revelation, liberals declared Romney’s candidacy dead (don’t worry; the man trailing Barack Obama by less than 3 percentage points on average has been similarly pronounced “dead” many times before). Conservatives, meanwhile, argued about whether Romney’s words would hurt his chances because they were, by his own admission, “not elegantly stated” — or whether Romney was telling a hard truth about government dependence that voters would receive well.
As much as I’d like to believe the latter group is correct, and as much as there is a fundamental truth here about the size, scope and role of government that distinguishes Romney from Obama in this race, I have to point out a problem. The “telephone” problem.
Set aside Romney’s incorrect conflation of: a) people who pay no federal income taxes, b) people who are dependent on government, and c) people who support Obama. There is some overlap among these groups, but they hardly represent a monolithic bloc totaling 47 percent of of the electorate.
The “47 percent” statistic itself is well-circulated among conservatives, but for a very different reason.
As far as I know — and I wasn’t the first person in this game of “telephone” — that statistic began as a counter-argument to the liberal claim that “the rich” don’t pay their fair share of taxes.
In recent years, the top 1 percent of earners in America have paid more than a third of all income taxes. The top 5 percent, about three-fifths.
The bottom 50 percent bear almost none of the income-tax burden (if they have jobs, they do contribute payroll taxes) because most of them pay nothing or are even net recipients.
So, the point of this “47 percent” statistic is to refute the “fair share” claim. After all, if 47 percent pay nothing and the top 5 percent pay a majority, how can we say “the rich” aren’t paying a “fair share”?
But this is not necessarily an argument for raising taxes on the 47 percent. In fact, conservative policy created much of the 47 percent.
The child tax credit is a social-conservative initiative. The refundable Earned Income Tax Credit is largely based on the “negative income tax” proposed almost 50 years ago by conservative economist Milton Friedman.
In theory, these tax credits ought to be a way to make government smaller and lower-income workers less dependent on it, by eliminating the need for Washington to spend billions on redundant, bureaucratic (but I repeat myself) programs that have not appreciably cut the poverty rate over time.
It hasn’t worked out that way, because those programs remain. But let’s not forget the real issue here for this election, and what probably was part of that first “telephone” whisper about the size and scope of government:
It’s the spending, stupid.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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307 comments Add your comment
Iowa St Fair
September 20th, 2012
1:59 pm
Thulsa
So which administration was it and was the VP of that administration voted in as President?
Doesn’t seem that the Rs are big on “cleaning house” anymore than the Ds.
They both area corrupt. Again, if your spin makes you feel good about yourself, spin away, but it will not change the facts.
@@
September 20th, 2012
1:59 pm
Thulsa:
Clayton County leads Georgia in the number of households under water. Funny thing is, years ago, we led in the affordable housing market.
Not so affordable after all.
I’m willing to take the financial hit. The biggest problem is finding someone who wants to live here. Not many of those around given our history.
Brosephus™
September 20th, 2012
2:00 pm
What I am saying to you is that just in general observations of watching the news and reading the papers that corruption and felonious behavior seems to be much more widely accepted in the Dem party.
When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I’m not fooling myself at all when compared to your thinking. Trying to quantify who does what more is nothing more than a means of excusing the behavior of those with whom you agree with. I don’t excuse any behavior from either party. If they’ve done wrong, then they should admit as much and do what’s right. If there’s only accusations, then we live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty.
To attempt to compare Newt against Frank is nothing more than an attempt to paint one as worse than the other. When you have a party that campaigns on the sanctity of marriage while entertaining Newt as a credible candidate for POTUS, there is no room to try to compare to someone else. Before casting a stone, it’s best to make sure you’re standing outside of your glass house.
I can’t sit here and debate this with you all day, because I already know that your slanted view will never allow you to see the two parties as equally liable in this aspect.
Y’all have fun…
These Lying Eyes!!!
September 20th, 2012
2:01 pm
“I’m forced to vote for people with questionable ethics all the time here in Clayton County.”
Same Thing applies in Gwinett….
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/fanning-cain-get-57-months-in-gwinnett-corruption-/nSDn3/
JDW
September 20th, 2012
2:03 pm
@Tiberius…”I get the two of you confused sometimes, as you post the same tripe so often”
And here I thought you were just confused all the time.
Thulsa Doom
September 20th, 2012
2:05 pm
Brocephus,
I’ll be the first one to eat my words when you can show me a major R city that keeps re-electing a drug addict or when Republicans re-elect a sheriff that has 37 felony counts against him.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 20th, 2012
2:05 pm
And if I saw anything in his policies he’s been successful in enacting or tried to do so, I might have some sympathy for Obama.
But he’s tried none of the things left off of the audio, but has tried everything on it.
Tough noogies, Lying.
Iowa St Fair
September 20th, 2012
2:09 pm
For a myriad of reasons, people have been moving out of Clayton Cty since the late 80s. If it took Victor Hill getting elected the 1st time to notice that the country is basically dysfunctional, whose problem is that?
Time to look in the mirror, stop blaming Hill, Democrats, etc and ask why am I still here?
jconservative
September 20th, 2012
2:10 pm
“yes, i know some will say i am throwing away my vote,…”
One only throws away their vote when they vote for anyone but the winner.
Thulsa Doom
September 20th, 2012
2:11 pm
These Lying eyes,
We might as well throw in the mayor of Atlanta corruption scandal huh?
http://articles.cnn.com/2006-06-13/justice/mayor.sentenced_1_tax-evasion-judge-grants-bill-campbell?_s=PM:LAW
Thulsa Doom
September 20th, 2012
2:11 pm
No corruption in Dem controlled DeKalb county either huh sir.
http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/19172045/dekalb-county-employees-accused-of-taking-bribes-extortion
Thulsa Doom
September 20th, 2012
2:15 pm
10 most corrupt cities in the U.S? Yep. Its a whose who of Dem controlled cities.
http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2012/02/16/university-study-lists-most-corrupt-cities-in-us-breath-easy-cleveland-didnt-make-the-cut
@@
September 20th, 2012
2:15 pm
For those who think I’m being selective, read this:
For as long as I’ve lived in Clayton County, our leadership have always been Democrats and we’ve always had corruption, not to mention investigations, be it white leadership or black.
We had a Republican chairman once. He lasted one term. He was a man of impeccable character. Can’t recall why the voters didn’t like him. I did.
My first job was with a lame-duck administration here in Clayton County. They were under investigation on their way out.
It’s been endless…ENDLESS, I tells ‘ya!!!!!
Iowa St Fair
September 20th, 2012
2:16 pm
I can say what I did regarding Clayton Cty because in the mid to late 80s I was a resident.
The good ole boys still ran it at that time. Yes regardless of party, they were good ole boys and it was already on a slippery slope.
Apparently the slide continues with the current crop of crooks, but it wasn’t exactly on an ascent during the time I was a resident. Mind you, there are a few nice areas that remain today………. I think
@@
September 20th, 2012
2:19 pm
Iowa:
Time to look in the mirror, stop blaming Hill, Democrats, etc and ask why am I still here?
Because until recently the road has always been a two-lane? Now it’s gonna be a four-lane?
Is that good enuff fer ‘ya or are you looking for something more sinister in my decision?
td
September 20th, 2012
2:19 pm
15% of Democrats believe the economy is not in that bad of shape. I guess this is true for them since their entitlements have been increased during the past 4 years. Is there any wondering about how Romney’s statement is very accurate now.
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/09/20/study-only-15-percent-of-democrats-believe-economic-news-is-bad/
Iowa St Fair
September 20th, 2012
2:22 pm
@@
Corruption know no party. You are stuck in Democrat corruption, so that hits home, however it permeates both parties.
Again, the writing has been on the wall for years.
Why did you not see it?
@@
September 20th, 2012
2:23 pm
Mind you, there are a few nice areas that remain today………. I think
That would be Lake Spivey, where Monica (Kauffman) ?Pierce? chose to retire.
@@
September 20th, 2012
2:24 pm
Iowa:
I had HOPE!
schnirt
Iowa St Fair
September 20th, 2012
2:25 pm
“Because until recently the road has always been a two-lane? Now it’s gonna be a four-lane?”
Progress, isn’t it grand. Happens in every metro Atlanta county and numerous other places all over the US. Nothing new.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 20th, 2012
2:25 pm
Thulsa, I’m kinda with Brosephus on this one. I don’t see a big difference between the two parties and their miscreants EXCEPT for this:
Republicans generally resign when their misdeeds are discovered. Democrats generally run for, and get reelected.
Iowa St Fair
September 20th, 2012
2:27 pm
@@
Nice area. Friend of mine lived there for years. Now he has a condo in Buckhead and a place on Lanier.
He misses the uncrowded lake, but that is about it.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 20th, 2012
2:27 pm
Wow! Iowa State admitting that Hope & Change is dead in Clayton County.
Wonder when he’ll catch up with the rest of the nation . . .
Iowa St Fair
September 20th, 2012
2:30 pm
@@
Joking aside. Do not know all, but do know Clayton Cty is in bad shape.
Good luck to you whether you move or stay and also to the other residents who are making efforts to do the best in a tough situation.
Iowa St Fair
September 20th, 2012
2:32 pm
Tiberius
That county was “dead” long before Obama ever came on the scene, but nice try.
Swing again
Were those Democrats or Republicans on the Gwinnett County commission who were indicted for bribes?
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 20th, 2012
2:34 pm
“Were those Democrats or Republicans on the Gwinnett County commission who were indicted for bribes?”
Republicans. Your point?
As I wrote before, elected Republicans generally pay for their sins.
Democrats get re-elected.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 20th, 2012
2:37 pm
This just in!
Obama and Michelle are scheduled for visit ‘The View’ next Tuesday.
Wonder if Benjamin Netanyahu will have a seat saved for him . . . .
Letterman – check!
Beyonce and Jay-Z – check!
Vegas fundraiser – check!
‘The View’ – check!
A sit down with our most important Middle East ally . . . er, can I give you a call, Benny?
Towncrier
September 20th, 2012
2:44 pm
“Obama and Michelle are scheduled for visit ‘The View’ next Tuesday.”
Too funny and, sadly, predictable. Letterman and then The View. I guess they really want to get challenged.
Thulsa Doom
September 20th, 2012
2:46 pm
Iowa St. fair provided a link showing Gwinnett corruption.
I then provided a link showing Fulton county corruption and Bill Campbell going to jail. I then provided a link showing DeKalb county corruption and numerous Dekalb county officials taking bribes. So far the count is 3-1 locally of Dem corruption vs Rep corruption.
Corruption nevertheless is everywhere but as I stated to begin all this its more accepted in Dem controlled areas and hence the continued re-election of Dem officials despite being under felony indictment. You don’t see Republicans with 37 standing felony counts being re-elected.
independent thinker
September 20th, 2012
2:47 pm
Kyle at 10:22:
””””””””””’ when it comes to reforming the tax code to eliminate subsidies hidden in it — I am talking here mostly about subsidies that favor particular individuals or corporations, or at least certain behaviors by each group — but spending is the biggest problem.”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"
I assume that giving huge tax deductions to companies that relocate and outsource makes no sense in this recession? if so why did the Repubs prevent a repeal of the deductions and give tax credits to companies that insource? could it be that the reason was Obama was pushing the legislation?
As the Big dog said the Repubs have proven over the last three years that they are incapable of creating jobs. Zero jobs created by party of NO. All Romney wants to do is start some wars to ramp up defense spending and double down on the trickle down.
td
September 20th, 2012
2:47 pm
Towncrier
September 20th, 2012
2:44 pm
“Obama and Michelle are scheduled for visit ‘The View’ next Tuesday.”
Too funny and, sadly, predictable. Letterman and then The View. I guess they really want to get challenged.
They want to make sure all those entitlement voters get out and vote for them.
jconservative
September 20th, 2012
2:51 pm
The problem with Romney continually making these dumb remarks is that he spends a week explaining the remarks and that is a week lost from talking about the lousy economy.
And time is of the essence. Some states have already started early voting. See the article by Major Garrett in the National Journal today at their website.
Here are a couple of crumbs to chew on from the Garrett article:
“Voters in North Carolina (15 electoral votes) have been casting absentee ballots since Sept. 7. Absentee ballots will be available in Wisconsin (10 electoral votes) today and in Virginia (13 electoral votes) on Friday. And Virginians can start in-person early voting on Saturday—the same day that voters in Michigan (16 electoral votes) can send in absentee ballots and begin in-person early voting. In Iowa (six electoral votes), absentee voting and in-person early voting begins on Sept. 27.”
With early voting getting earlier and earlier the old thinking of there is plenty of time is over. There is no more time. We are voting already!
@@
September 20th, 2012
2:53 pm
Romney’s scheduled to appear on “The View” in October. He’ll be fine.
It will, however, be interesting to compare the receptions offered both candidates.
southpaw
September 20th, 2012
2:53 pm
Tiberius
You forgot Jay Leno. Obama hasn’t appeared on the Tonight Show yet (although Michelle has), but this is the next best thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzLBBbg7lLw
the red herring
September 20th, 2012
2:56 pm
spending is still most of the problem —in particular wasteful spending. this is not just a democrat problem it happened under bush as well—only when we had a legislature controlled by republicans and democratic president have we reduced the deficit (even then it’s debatable). We can’t continue to spend a trillion a year more than we take in and we can’t make up a trillion by taxing the rich (even if we take all they make). the math is simple– we must get entitlement spending and exorbitant benefits (be they welfare/unemployment/what have you) back under control and reasonable. we can’t give free everything to everybody. we can’t allow illegals a free pass because you think if your party does this then they will vote for your party. common sense must return —balance the budget, stop spending like crazy, reduce the free stuff used to buy elections, then and only then consider raising taxes but do it in a fair and balanced manner (flat tax/etc exempt the first 15,000 of all income and then tax anything above that regardless of where the income comes from.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 20th, 2012
2:58 pm
“As the Big dog said the Repubs have proven over the last three years that they are incapable of creating jobs.”
When you control only one house of Congress and not the Presidency, how are you expected to create jobs, exactly?
Oh, and add to that when you’re way of creating jobs is by getting government out of the lives of businesses and the other side just likes to increase government control?
Not much “thinking” there, “independent” “thinker”.
Mark
September 20th, 2012
3:00 pm
Mitt is the Captain of a vastly sinking ship!
OBAMA 2012!
Mary Elizabeth
September 20th, 2012
3:05 pm
Consider this:
If the so-called “entitlements,” such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, are so unsustainable to our nation’s financial well-being, why was this nation doing so well financially, only a little over a decade ago, during Bill Clinton’s administration? Some contend that Republican ideologues deliberately ran up the deficit in the 2000s (See Paul Krugman’s 2/22/10 NY Times column) in order to create a situation which would force a cut to these “government” programs, which Republicans have abhorred for decades, as the passion in Romney’s voice confirmed, when he spoke so disparagingly of “those people,” who benefit from those programs. (Consider that people who live on $12.70 an hour do not earn enough in income to build retirement portfolios, within the financial framework of our society, but they can contribute to Social Security.) Romney, and his kind, wish to cut these programs out as much as possible so that millionaires and billionaires can pay fewer taxes because, afterall, they are are the real “victims” of these programs.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/nation-of-takers/?smid=fb-share
David R. Boag, DDS
September 20th, 2012
3:06 pm
Towncrier @ 2:44
“Too funny and, sadly, predictable. Letterman and then The View. I guess they really want to get challenged.”
No, the real challenge would be Rachel Maddow on MSNBC! ;-P
Gravy Train
September 20th, 2012
3:18 pm
Hey Kyle, I sent you an email last night. Still waiting for your reply…
Gravy Train
September 20th, 2012
3:20 pm
Also, looks like Linda is not as all powerful as she thinks she is. LOL. I’m still here, lady. Feel the burn…LOL again
Towncrier
September 20th, 2012
3:21 pm
“No, the real challenge would be Rachel Maddow on MSNBC! ;-P”
I must respectfully disagree. I think it would be Chris “I feel a tingle up my leg” Matthews.
Gravy Train
September 20th, 2012
3:22 pm
Slow business day, Boag? That mythical dentist practice sure is busy, huh? You’re still here instead of tending to all those supposed customers who just can’t get enough of you? Shocking.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right when needed
September 20th, 2012
3:26 pm
“If the so-called “entitlements,” such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, are so unsustainable to our nation’s financial well-being, why was this nation doing so well financially, only a little over a decade ago, during Bill Clinton’s administration?”
First of all, Mary Elizabeth, “doing well financially” doesn’t mean anything when you’re talking about two different things: entitlements and budgets. We did better on budgets because a Republican House forced Bill Clinton to move to the center regarding spending, and he was smart enough to take the hint from the voters. Obama isn’t that smart, or he would have done something vastly different following the shellacking he got in 2010. Second, entitlements such as SS and Medicare were better funded back then because retirement rates were much lower. The Baby Boomers are in full-swing retirement mode right now and there aren’t enough workers due to unemployment being so high and the overall ratio of workers to recipients being skewed as they are anyway.
“Some contend that Republican ideologues deliberately ran up the deficit in the 2000s (See Paul Krugman’s 2/22/10 NY Times column) in order to create a situation which would force a cut to these “government” programs”
And some contend they’ve seen Elvis, but I discount those whackos as well.
“Romney, and his kind, wish to cut these programs out as much as possible so that millionaires and billionaires can pay fewer taxes because, afterall, they are are the real “victims” of these programs.”
Once again, Romney does not wish to cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires. He wants to cut tax RATES and eliminate tax loopholes to overall flatten the tax code which will allow the above to pay the same, but without the hassle of an army of accountants. In addition, their alleged “cuts” (such as pushing back the retirement age) are simply to make SS and Medicare fiscally sound – NOT eliminate them.
And you want to talk about the “victims” of SS and Medicare, Mary Elizabeth? Black people have an average lifespan of roughly-right 62-65 years according to actuarial tables, yet they overwhelmingly support a party that resists privatizing even the smallest amount of SS. When they die, their heirs get NOTHING except about $265 to help pay for the burial. The victims of SS and Medicare are the very people who perpetuate this failure of a program, Mary Elizabeth! They work their whole lives through and have 15% of their pay taken out for a future revenue stream that never happens because they DIE before it can happen!
And all their money goes to white men and women who outlive blacks by 10 or more years on average.
It is a mystery to me why they continue to support this government-sanctioned Ponzi scheme.
Gravy Train
September 20th, 2012
3:30 pm
Where are all of the “jobs” our beloved and oppressed “creators” are making? It’s too bad that I’ll need a passport and a Chinese Visa to find out! Yet, there they are crying for even more tax breaks. Guess what? Even if their rate was .00000001% they would still say it’s too high. Real patriots don’t hide their money in other countries. The real patriots built this nation to be free of British corporate controls. Apparently, wing nuts are cool with giving our country away to multi-national global conglomerates because according to them, that’s what the founding fathers envisioned. Stupid is as stupid does. How does it feel to be Willard’s pawn?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 20th, 2012
3:32 pm
I’m pretty sure that Afghanistan has a better economic growth rate than obozo’s USA but what do the 47% care?
Party like it’s 1399!
Iowa St Fair
September 20th, 2012
3:33 pm
Thulsa
Which administration was I referring to earlier?
I Report (-: You Whine )-: mmm, mmmm, mmmmm! Just sayin...
September 20th, 2012
3:34 pm
Another day, another obozobuck.
JamVet
September 20th, 2012
3:45 pm
Mark,
Mitt is the Captain of a vastly sTinking ship.
Many make the analogy that his campaign is that of the Titanic voyage. Which is accurate in that the iceberg is a date called November 6, 2012. Notwithstanding that this is Mitt’s second “maiden voyage”. (LOL.)
More arguably he is Ahab aboard the Pequod, a man who attributes malignant and evil intentions to the “whale”, when in fact it is not the
whalethe American people but the crippled Ahab alone who possesses these characteristics.MarkV
September 20th, 2012
3:55 pm
td @2:47 pm
“Too funny and, sadly, predictable. Letterman and then The View. I guess they really want to get challenged.”
Like Romney on The View last year, and scheduled again in October. I guess he really wants to get challenged.