2012 Tuesday: What Romney got right about Obama and dependency, where he went wrong
So it appears that, with the Muslim world burning and reports that some but not all embassies were on alert for possible security threats on the 9/11 anniversary last week, with unemployment still so high and the Obama administration’s policies still so ineffective that the Federal Reserve has resorted to a new round of printing money — with all that, we’re nevertheless doomed to another round of debate about another “gaffe” by Mitt Romney.
That gaffe consists of Romney’s remarks, during a a closed-door fund-raiser four months ago, when he said, in part:
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what …
And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49 … he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn’t connect. So he’ll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean that’s what they sell every four years. And so my job is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to convince the five to ten percent in the center that are independents that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not.
This is, of course, exactly the kind of sentiment you can hear on, say, Neal Boortz’s radio show: the idea that the nation is reaching a tipping point of “makers” vs. “takers,” of people who pay income taxes vs. people who receive benefits funded by those taxes (and debt).
Is it the kind of thing a presidential candidate should say? No. Is it true that all 47 percent — that statistic is correct, by the way — are “moochers”? No.
But here’s another question: What about Barack Obama’s political career, including his presidency, refutes the broader point Romney made?
Is it the cradle-to-grave dependent “Julia,” about whom the Obama campaign constructed a narrative describing her inability to make it in America without government aid?
Is it the fact that food-stamp spending is on pace to more than double between 2008 and 2013?
Is it the fact that Obama’s signature legislative achievement would have the effect of making even more people — what’s that word again? — dependent on government for their health insurance?
So there are two aspects to Romney’s remarks. The first is the underlying substance of what he said, which boils down to the basic conservative critique of Obama specifically and liberalism in general: that they are highly, maybe even chiefly, interested expanding government and Americans’ dependence on it. Is anyone actually surprised by this? Does anyone think this is not a large part of what this election is about?
The second is the way he phrased it, and that did his candidacy no favors. If nothing else, he should have acknowledged that not all of the “47 percent” are dependent on government, that many of the ones who are dependent would prefer not to be, and that it is worthwhile to try to persuade at least some of the holdouts.
But I’m not sure it will be overly damaging to him, either. For starters, I agree with Ben Domenech that many members of the “47 percent” do not think they are members. How many people will hear that and think Romney was talking about them?
Going further, how many people will hear that and be offended by Romney’s remarks? And, adding the two groups together, how many of them were still actually considering voting for Romney anyway?
I would suggest we’re not talking about a very large number of people here. Now, in a close race, even a relatively small number of people can have a significant effect. But, with almost two months still to go in a campaign with much bigger issues front and center, I’m not sure a significant number of voters will make their decision even in part on Romney’s remarks at a fund-raiser back in May.
It is, however, one more reason for Romney to get back to playing offense on the economy and the size and scope of government — and soon.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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485 comments Add your comment
cc
September 19th, 2012
6:30 am
The Hollywood liberals really torque me with their support for the socialist/communist president. They tweet, twitter and speak of redistribution of wealth using other words. OK, fine, why not confiscate all their wealth plus their future earnings and redistribute it in the name of being ‘fair’? I do believe Hollywood would find itself a veritable hotbed of conservatism should that occur . . .
DeborahinAthens
September 19th, 2012
6:46 am
It isn’t fair to compare what Mitt says about 47% of the country to what a bloviators like Boortz says. The President of the free world is supposed to guide and support all of this nations citizens, whereas the Boortzs and Hannitys are entertainers, who stir the pot to make money from advertisers. When things settle down and get quiet they come up with some other piece of garbage to stir the pot. A majority of the 47% that do not pay taxes are retired people who have worked their whole lives and paid into SS and Medicare, and now expect to get some of their money back. The Repugs feed off the BS that there is a vast wasteland of useless people sucking at the teat of the Republic. These people, they tell us, for some reason cannot seem to pull themselves up by their bootstraps the way Mittster, son of a multi millionaire, Bush, son of a multi millionaire, and Ryan, son of a very wealthy family did. The earned income tax credit that frosts their A$$es was formulated during the Reagan administration. Mitt wants the 47% to be cast adrift so the 51% can sail on like the Titanic. A good leader, like President Obama, believes that a rising tide floats all boats. The chain is only as strong as the weakest link. Having an equitable tax rate where the very wealthy pays a higher percentage worked well in this country during our most productive and expansionist years. Why, suddenly this hysteria over taxes?
mark
September 19th, 2012
7:17 am
The tax code that allows my $50000 a year household pay very little federal income tax is due to Ronald “Ray Guns” and Bush Jr. tax credits. The worst one is the $1000/child tax credit. One year I had to call a republican friend and ask him how am I getting more money back than I paid in? The George W Bush child tax credit!! I do believe he was a republican!! I am a teacher, not a victim, ok a I feel a little like a victim with my 8 furlough days equalling $2400 in lost pay this year. Their goes my tax bill!!
cc
September 19th, 2012
7:18 am
DeborahinAthens@6:46 am:
“A majority of the 47% that do not pay taxes are retired people”
I am retired and I know quite a few people who are now retired. Of course, I don’t know ALL retired people, but I’m only asking for myself; since I pay no taxes, may I count on you to handle my ‘non-tax payment’ on April 15th? Everyone I know who is retired ARE paying taxes, or maybe you’re familiar with some loophole we haven’t been able to identify?
Numbers-R-US
September 19th, 2012
7:35 am
Tell us all about the significance of that 47% that pay no income tax and are moochers, government dependents, looking for entitlements. I read somewhere that over half of the entitlement spending goes to the elderly in the form of social security and medicare. Didn’t those elderly pay into those trust funds their entire working lives in order to qualify for their mooching, Kyle. It sounds like your boy, Mitt, thinks more of peopple that utilize Swiss bank accounts than he does the working class that actually earned what they have.
Numbers-R-US
September 19th, 2012
7:43 am
I was considering bicycling across France and sampling the wines but I knew it would be tough to try to compete with Mitt. His dad could afford to buy him a plane ticket or even a plane, for one thing. And a bicycle. My dad did not have that kind of money so I stayed home and signed up for the service as required by law. I was classified 1A with lucky number 25. Then they quit drafting people. I didn’t need to figure out how to get to France or worry about competing with Mitt any more.
iggy
September 19th, 2012
7:54 am
No surprise that one of the “carters” was involved in the release of the “47% video”.
Aser706
September 19th, 2012
8:11 am
47% means that the Dems only have to campaign for 4% to win an election.
John Vance
September 19th, 2012
8:15 am
I love how James Carter talked about how Romney is so out of touch with the middle class and poor. He said this as he got out of his Chauffeur driven LIMO.
Lynnie Gal
September 19th, 2012
8:24 am
Romney’s comments were not “gaffes”. It’s what he believes. You don’t think he should have said it, because it’s much better politically to hold such beliefs in secret before an election than actually tell people what you believe and what you intend to do to them. Mr. Romney says 47% don’t pay taxes. Does that include himself and his donors? Mr. Romney admits to paying half the percentage in taxes as most Americans and has hidden money in the Cayman Islands and elsewhere to avoid paying his share of taxes. He flatly refuses to release more than one year of taxes, and it is widely suspected that the reason he must keep his own taxes secret is because he paid ZERO taxes for several years. Romney tells us–trust me. I pay 13% in taxes. Really? Show us. Mr. Romney was ironically talking about himself when he stated that 47% of Americans don’t pay income taxes.
Aser706
September 19th, 2012
8:31 am
Mark:
You deduct furlough days from your total taxable income. So, they have nothing to do with your tax bill. The wages lost may keep you from a higher tax bracket…
AU Liberal in ATL
September 19th, 2012
8:35 am
I’ll tell you where he went wrong. He is without exception the worst political candidate I’ve ever seen. He went wrong when he decided to run for president. Pathetic!
Uneducated, uninformed, vote against my best interest, Howdy Doody
September 19th, 2012
8:38 am
Mitch Romley gits my vote becoze he is onnest and he is a good Christan famly man. All Christains shoud be votin for Mitch.
Aser706
September 19th, 2012
8:40 am
Lynnie….
So you’re saying Mitt Romney is good with money? What’s wrong with that?
Answers?
September 19th, 2012
8:41 am
I strongly suspect that Mr. Romney is one of the 47 percent he speaks of. I’d bet a paycheck that’s why he’s refused to release more of his personal tax info. Perfectly legal, but from my point of view, it doesn’t seem very patriotic for a man of his vast wealth. Don’t trust him.
JamVet
September 19th, 2012
8:41 am
…socialist/communist president.
Would someone tell cc that McCarthyism died a horrific and shameful death sixty years ago?
Thank you.
cc
September 19th, 2012
8:42 am
Lynnie Gal@8:24 am:
I’m not a financial wizard, but I’d be willing to bet that 13% taxes for him is a nickel or two more than you pay? As to his “hidden money”, I’m sure that you can provide us with credible sources for this information, other than Media Matters and PMS/NBC? Since you know about his “hidden money”, perhaps you can enlighten us as to exactly how much it is?
Answers?
September 19th, 2012
8:44 am
You’re right, Iggy. The Carters are an admirable family. 99 times out of 100 they do the right thing. No surprises from the Carter clan.
Answers?
September 19th, 2012
8:46 am
I’m curious, cc. Why do you feel the need to defend Romney’s use of off shore banks? Would you do that if he were a Democrat? Didn’t think so. Are you familiar with this word: hypocrite?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
8:48 am
romney has one allegiance: to the Cayman Islands
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the Cayman Islands, and to the Banks for which it stands, one Group of Bankers under Moola, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all my wealthy friends.
cc
September 19th, 2012
8:49 am
JamVet@8:41 am:
You can tell me that yourself, and it’s not McCarthyism, JamVet, it is reality. You’d have to be blind or mentally challenged not to see it . . .
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
8:50 am
cc must be one of the 1%. Why else would someone defend the sleazy bankers who stole all our 401k money?
iggy
September 19th, 2012
8:51 am
“The Carters are an admirable family. 99 times out of 100 they do the right thing.”
Right vs political expediant…learn the difference. Plus that Carter kid looked to be entering his second trimester. He should get with Grandpa Jimmuh and build some houses or weave some baskets.
You youngsters seem to revere this Jimmuh Carter yet forget what a lousy President he was. And Jimmuh seems to forget he was basically “run out of town.”
iggy
September 19th, 2012
8:52 am
“who stole all our 401k money?”
Stole our 401K money? That makes no sense…If people chose to cash-out early and pay the huge penalties then thats their problem.
independent thinker
September 19th, 2012
8:53 am
How do we know that Romney was never one of the 47% that did not pay income taxes??????????
He carefully said he paid 13% in taxes. That could include property and sales taxes,
cc
September 19th, 2012
8:54 am
Answers?@8:46 am:
As you don’t know me, your “hypocrite” will be ignored due to your . . . well, ignorance. And, for what it’s worth, you happen to be wrong.
iggy
September 19th, 2012
8:54 am
“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the Cayman Islands, and to the Banks for which it stands, one Group of Bankers under Moola, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all my wealthy friends”
The “law-givers” make the financial laws so your problem is with them and not the banks. Open your eyes, son.
JamVet
September 19th, 2012
8:55 am
…it is reality.
Sure it is. That is what you depraved Republicans said 60 years ago. And then after years of your perverted circus (look up House UnAmerican Committee) came up with………………….. nothing.
So you and the modernly depraved Alan West are going to do any better with your witch hunts THIS time?
HUGE LOL!
Talk about stuck on stupid…
td
September 19th, 2012
8:56 am
Ooops, It now appears that there was some missing segments of the tape and Mother Jones has admitted that the missing parts was during the critical time.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
8:56 am
Another one of Kyle’s “OMG Obama did what” posts gets debunked by a Republican insider:
Former GOP intel chair shoots down GOP myth
Republican former Intelligence Committee chair says it doesn’t matter if Obama reads his intelligence briefings
http://www.newsmax.com/video#ooid=txN2p2NToF88YKfRGOpCbgxDmFFKeK9J
JamVet
September 19th, 2012
8:58 am
Make that House Un-American Activities Committee, neocons.
Now THAT should warn the c0ckles of your ever paranoid hearts! Where moozlims, homos and commies are around every corner and behind every bush…
iggy
September 19th, 2012
8:58 am
The State of CO moves from “barely democrat” to virtual tie. Little by little The Grand Poobah is losing ground.
Stephenson Billings
September 19th, 2012
8:59 am
SELECTIVE EDIT? MOTHER JONES ADMITS ROMNEY TAPE MISSING ‘ONE TO TWO MINUTES’
“Mother Jones, the left-wing magazine that released a controversial video of Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s remarks to a fundraiser in May, now admits that it has no full tape of what Romney said, and that its video is missing “one to two minutes” at the most important moment.”
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/09/19/Mother-Jones-Admits-Romney-Tape-Missing-One-or-Two-Minutes
Stephenson Billings
September 19th, 2012
9:00 am
Guess their deflection isn’t working very well:
Obama’s Foreign Policy Approval Rating Drops After Mideast Turmoil
“The NBC/Wall Street Journal poll released Tuesday found the president’s foreign policy approval among registered voters at 49 percent, down from 54 percent one month earlier.
“The fall was steeper among independents, going from 53 percent in August to 41 percent,” NBC reported.”
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-s-foreign-policy-approval-rating-drops-after-mideast-turmoil
cc
September 19th, 2012
9:00 am
Finn McCool@8:50 am:
You’re wrong again . . . as usual. I just do not suffer from your obvious affliction, wealth envy.
Stephenson Billings
September 19th, 2012
9:01 am
GALLUPUSATODAY SWING STATES: O 48% R 46%
RASMUSSEN SWING STATES: R 47% O 46%
iggy
September 19th, 2012
9:01 am
The base is crumbling…
http://newsone.com/2040034/black-christians-against-obama/
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
9:02 am
From Romney’s speech to the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce later today:
“I expected the president, at his convention, to talk about the unemployed and to unveil a jobs plan. Astonishingly, he did not. I have a plan, and my plan for a stronger middle class will create 12 million jobs by the end of my first term,” Romney will say, according to excerpts released to reporters this morning.
Without a single detail of how he plans to get there…….
The yokels love this guy: He says he has a plan! That’s like my preacher saying there is a God! We don’t need plans and proof, we can believe it in our hearts!
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
9:04 am
I just do not suffer from your obvious affliction, wealth envy
Oh? You don’t plan your life around making more money? You didn’t go to college to maximize your revenue stream as an adult? You don’t tell your kids they should go to college so they can get a good job one day and realize their capabilities?
“No, joey, college is about getting girls – don’t worry about the studying part. I like paying $30,000 a year so you can party!”
JamVet
September 19th, 2012
9:05 am
Keep those fingers and toes crossed, iggy!
But your severely conservative (LOL) candidate is a dead man walking nonetheless…
David R. Boag, DDS
September 19th, 2012
9:07 am
Finn,
The link leads to a clip of an interview with Fran Tarkenton.
?
JamVet
September 19th, 2012
9:08 am
…some missing segments of the tape…
Shades of Tricky Dick and Watergate?
And Rush and his “phony soldiers” story?
This could get interesting…
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
9:11 am
Sorry, David, it’s the Hoakstra interview.
the red herring
September 19th, 2012
9:11 am
kyle –it’s one statement and certainly it is no worse than obama’s “i want redistribute the money you worked and invested for so that it goes to someone other than you”. how bad is that statement? it’s a long ways to election with debates between now and then. most of america is now aware that 47% don’t pay income taxes and the only people that think that’s fair are those 47%. It’s also well understood that at least half of those people don’t need to be paying–on the other hand there is that half that do need to be contributing. a growing economy with growing numbers of jobs will improve all of that which is why romney is still neck and neck with obama. for sure his ecomomic policies and his foreign policy would be better.
iggy
September 19th, 2012
9:14 am
Obama is beginning to flail about like some punchdrunk boxer. It just isnt looking good for the ole Prez. And Donna Brazille will soon go into full meltdown.
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
9:14 am
The most amazing part of the last 3.5 years – a part of our history that will be studied for years after our death – is how Obama and the democrats completely wrested control of the National Security issues/debates and made it their strong suit.
That’s the master stroke that turns the former Republican strong point around.
Dang, and that dude is a community organizer?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
9:15 am
iggy, a little early to be hitting the hooch, isn’t it?
Or are those prescription pills you are on?
Finn McCool (The System isn't Broken; It's Fixed)
September 19th, 2012
9:17 am
Paul Ryan didn’t sound like Mr. Loyalty when commenting on Mitt Romney’s cruel comments about the 47 percent of Americans who pay no taxes Tuesday to a Reno television station. The Associated Press has the story:
Asked what he thought of Romney’s remarks, Ryan told the Nevada station: “He was obviously inarticulate in making this point.” Ryan went on to say the point the Republicans are making is that, under the Obama economy, government dependency is up and economic stagnation is up.
Ryan added if given the chance, “I think he would have said it differently, that’s for sure.” And according to Think Progress, in an interview with a New Hampshire station, Ryan answered a flat “no” when asked if he agreed with Romney’s remarks.
salon.com
Gimme Gimme Gimme
September 19th, 2012
9:19 am
We should watch this every day to remind ourselves how out of touch this guy is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQu2SVFF-cU
AmericaFirstEveryone
September 19th, 2012
9:20 am
I think everyone is missing Governor Romney’s comment whole point! He was talking about something that has been bothering me for a while now. And that is that there are certain voters who may care so much about ONE thing so much that they don’t care about the many other very important issues facing our country. I urge everyone to watch that whole video carefully and even read the transcript as I have. Every household is in debt a half million dollars for all the promises our country has made about what the goverment will do during their lifetimes! We need to get our country back on the right track ASAP. Right now we are heading straight towards bankruptcy and everyone should vote for getting out of this terrible debt we’re in. I think we are extremely lucky to have an excellent business genious willing to take on this mess and I can’t wait to cast my vote for Govenor Romney. Please everyone…get all the facts from both sides of the media and study this. Our country is in trouble and your decision is critically important.