2012 Tuesday: What Romney got right about Obama and dependency, where he went wrong
So it appears that, with the Muslim world burning and reports that some but not all embassies were on alert for possible security threats on the 9/11 anniversary last week, with unemployment still so high and the Obama administration’s policies still so ineffective that the Federal Reserve has resorted to a new round of printing money — with all that, we’re nevertheless doomed to another round of debate about another “gaffe” by Mitt Romney.
That gaffe consists of Romney’s remarks, during a a closed-door fund-raiser four months ago, when he said, in part:
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what …
And I mean the president starts off with 48, 49 … he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn’t connect. So he’ll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean that’s what they sell every four years. And so my job is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to convince the five to ten percent in the center that are independents that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not.
This is, of course, exactly the kind of sentiment you can hear on, say, Neal Boortz’s radio show: the idea that the nation is reaching a tipping point of “makers” vs. “takers,” of people who pay income taxes vs. people who receive benefits funded by those taxes (and debt).
Is it the kind of thing a presidential candidate should say? No. Is it true that all 47 percent — that statistic is correct, by the way — are “moochers”? No.
But here’s another question: What about Barack Obama’s political career, including his presidency, refutes the broader point Romney made?
Is it the cradle-to-grave dependent “Julia,” about whom the Obama campaign constructed a narrative describing her inability to make it in America without government aid?
Is it the fact that food-stamp spending is on pace to more than double between 2008 and 2013?
Is it the fact that Obama’s signature legislative achievement would have the effect of making even more people — what’s that word again? — dependent on government for their health insurance?
So there are two aspects to Romney’s remarks. The first is the underlying substance of what he said, which boils down to the basic conservative critique of Obama specifically and liberalism in general: that they are highly, maybe even chiefly, interested expanding government and Americans’ dependence on it. Is anyone actually surprised by this? Does anyone think this is not a large part of what this election is about?
The second is the way he phrased it, and that did his candidacy no favors. If nothing else, he should have acknowledged that not all of the “47 percent” are dependent on government, that many of the ones who are dependent would prefer not to be, and that it is worthwhile to try to persuade at least some of the holdouts.
But I’m not sure it will be overly damaging to him, either. For starters, I agree with Ben Domenech that many members of the “47 percent” do not think they are members. How many people will hear that and think Romney was talking about them?
Going further, how many people will hear that and be offended by Romney’s remarks? And, adding the two groups together, how many of them were still actually considering voting for Romney anyway?
I would suggest we’re not talking about a very large number of people here. Now, in a close race, even a relatively small number of people can have a significant effect. But, with almost two months still to go in a campaign with much bigger issues front and center, I’m not sure a significant number of voters will make their decision even in part on Romney’s remarks at a fund-raiser back in May.
It is, however, one more reason for Romney to get back to playing offense on the economy and the size and scope of government — and soon.
– By Kyle Wingfield
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485 comments Add your comment
JamVet
September 18th, 2012
7:43 pm
Go to Google
i.e., I got nothin’.
Which is probably a much better move on her part than making up even more absurd, fallacious claims on the matter…
Linda
September 18th, 2012
7:46 pm
Real@7:31, Go ahead. Begin here. Talk about mixed up. Talk about lunacy. Talk about the worst unemployment record since WWII. Talk about the fact that during the Obama adm., not one NET job has been created, despite the spin. It’s simple math. The rate of 7.8% unemployment when he took office is LESS than the 8.1% today AND the labor participation rate is the worst for 32 years. The unemployment rate would be close to 15% if the Bureau of Labor Statistics counted all of those who are actually unemployed.
I could go on. Do you want me to?
md
September 18th, 2012
7:48 pm
“I think front loading machines sell better because they do a better job of cleaning by virtue of the laws of gravity.”
And it’s that same law of gravity that allows them to leak a whole lot more than their cousins ever did……..those gaskets have a lifespan that many of the consumers have yet to experience, but they will and they won’t like it.
MarkV
September 18th, 2012
7:48 pm
Real Athens @7:40 pm
Watched the video but did not notice. Thanks for alerting me.
catlady
September 18th, 2012
7:50 pm
Romney and his ilk, and supporters, are unwilling to admit that they receive a large amount of welfare themselves. He can decry the welfare recepients as soon as he eschews the benefits he gets, and repay those he has gotten.
mike
September 18th, 2012
7:58 pm
I have to hand to you conservatives. You soldier on even though your cause it hopeless.
Mitt Romney is going to suffer one of the worst defeats ever recorded in the political history of the United States.
I know that many of you are hoping for a “miracle.” Unfortunately, that miracle will not be forthcoming.
Therefore flail away. Thrash with all of your might. Tilt at windmills. It’s all for naught.
Professional candidate Romney will be tossed onto the flotsam of history to be forgotten and fade into obscurity.
The best part is that the major part of the reason he will be defeated is his own fault and his own big mouth.
Too bad.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
September 18th, 2012
8:06 pm
Hey mike. Since you know so much in advance, what are the lottery numbers for this weekend?
Otherwise, your flaccid pronouncments mean nothing.
Real Athens
September 18th, 2012
8:08 pm
Linda@ 7:46
Almost verbatim. I’d expect no less.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/05/04/obama_s_orwellian_unemployment_numbers
No need to go on. It’s already been said.
Mary Elizabeth
September 18th, 2012
8:08 pm
I received an e-mail today from my friend of 45 years from NYC, who asked and answered this question: “Who are the 45% really?” I asked her if I could post that on blogs in Atlanta. She said she would be pleased for me to do so. Here it is:
————————————————-
Who are the 45% really?
The disabled veterans who come home brain damaged or missing limbs? Or damaged by Agent Orange from the VietNam war?
The elderly who depend on Social Security, to which they have contributed all their lives?
The disabled, struck down by injury or illness through no fault of their own?
How about ordinary citizens struck down by bullets from assault weapons carried by psychos who obtained them easily thanks to the efforts of the NRA?
Members of the middle class who worked all their lives with the agreement that part of their job agreement would be a pension which would enable them to live comfortably into their retirement? Many of these pensions were cut by a third, or in half, or outright disappeared by top execs who either grossly mismanaged, or who stole the money to fatten their own pensions and golden parachutes?
Those members of the middle class and working people bankrupted by an unexpected illness, who because of it lose their jobs, health insurance, and then all their money and their homes as they struggle to pay for uninsured care?
Those screwed by insurance companies who claim they had a prior condition? (Romney wants to undo Obamacare)
In Romney’s dog-eat-dog every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost world, no one cares for anyone else. People get fired because it is convenient to ship their jobs to a cheaper venue. And what happens in the countries where labor unions are attacked or destroyed, and where their governments don’t regulate corporations? The recent terrible fire in a Pakistani textile factory, where 300 people were either burned to death, died from smoke inhalation, or dashed to death on the pavement because they jumped out of windows—is what can happen when there aren’t strong unions, strong government regulation of the workplace, and a community that seriously cares about its members.
Romney revealed what he really is. Fortunately.”
Del
September 18th, 2012
8:09 pm
Bookmans over there blowing smoke up where his flocks sun never shines but they’re luving it and bending over for more. They’re the mindless that help make up the 47% Romney spoke about. Although I do disagree with Mitt to the extent that Obummers assured 47% of the electorate is also comprised of wealthy ideologues who won’t share their own wealth but want everyone else to share theirs. There are many down on their luck Americans who may be taking government sustenance because they have to but don’t want to. Romney needs to differentiate from those that crave the Democrats, hold them beholden to our party strategy from those who truly want to break loose and live free. This is indeed a defining moment that will determine whether or not Americans want to live free or bow to the temptations of big government socialism that will continue to take us down the road to ruin.
mike
September 18th, 2012
8:10 pm
Can pronouncements be flaccid or erect? That is the question before us.
Now that is a profound question.
Hillbilly D
September 18th, 2012
8:13 pm
those gaskets have a lifespan that many of the consumers have yet to experience, but they will and they won’t like it.
Yep, just because something is relatively new doesn’t make it necessarily better.
mike
September 18th, 2012
8:14 pm
Hey, mike. Here’s why I agree or disagree with your post:
crickets
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
September 18th, 2012
8:14 pm
Got it Mary Elizabeth. Romney not only killed a lady via cancer, he’s now responsible for over 300 deaths in Pakistan.
The reason those 300 people ate dead is BECAUSE of unions. If they hadn’t priced American manufacturing out of business, those 300 would never have had a factory to enter.
You libs have no clue about cause and effect.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
September 18th, 2012
8:17 pm
Mike, I can disagree with your post all day long.
But you aren’t going to listen to reason, so why bother?
Del
September 18th, 2012
8:17 pm
mike, Aren’t you really referring to presentations?
md
September 18th, 2012
8:20 pm
HD…..years ago, I worked at a place that had a room full of front load commercial washers……all I can say is thank goodness there was a floor drain in the middle of the room. And the replacement gaskets never held up as long as the originals.
I’ve lived most of my life evidently with not as clean clothes as I could have, but it’ll be a cold day in hades when I buy one of those front loaders. As if one could really tell a difference.
Linda
September 18th, 2012
8:22 pm
Real@7:38, Republicans don’t get political advice from washer & dryer salesmen. AGAIN, that’s NOT what I said. What I said is that liberals buy glass-front washers & dryers to view their spin, according to washer & dryer salesmen.
You, a liberal, admit to the belief that “front-loading machines do a better job of cleaning by virtue of the laws of gravity.” How noble! You, as a liberal, also believe that green-house gases don’t enhance the laws of thermodynamics.
Pitiful, just pitiful.
.
mike
September 18th, 2012
8:24 pm
Look. I understand your desperation. I really do.
The next possible chance the Republicans have to win the White House is 2024, if at all.
When you gravitate to the extreme right wing nutcases and tea party clown parade, that’s the only thing you can expect.
But, look, don’t worry. If you — conservatives — get mad enough. And I mean REALLY mad, then maybe, just maybe, someone other than your own nutcase party will listen to you.
I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.
Hillbilly D
September 18th, 2012
8:24 pm
md
When I built my house, I built it with the idea that everything in it would one day have to be fixed. It’s inevitable that things are going to tear up, so I built for ease of repair, as well as structure. All the other stuff is just window dressing.
Tiberius - pulling the tail of the left AND right
September 18th, 2012
8:28 pm
2024, Mike? What are you smoking?
Hillbilly D
September 18th, 2012
8:30 pm
The next possible chance the Republicans have to win the White House is 2024, if at all.
Back in ‘68, they said the Democrats would never win again. In ‘76, it was the Republicans who would never win again. By ‘88 it was back to the Democrats who would never win again. By ‘96 it was back to the Republicans never winning again and in 2004 we were back to Democrats never winning again. These things run in 8-12 year cycles. The American public has a short attention span and gets bored easy. Anybody looking ahead more than 4 years is gazing into a crystal ball.
Just a couple weeks ago, most folks thought the election would turn on the economy and it still may but that was before the Libyan Embassy situation. The unexpected has a way of turning political predictions on their head.
mike
September 18th, 2012
8:31 pm
Here’s why the Republicans have a good chance of winning a presidential election before 2024:
crickets
Linda
September 18th, 2012
8:32 pm
Real@8:08, Why cite another site that dittos the unemployment rates, that are the worse since the Great Depression?
Are you disagreeing with the facts?
Del
September 18th, 2012
8:32 pm
mike you sound like an incensed left wing ideologue. Calm down, Obama may lose the election and you will still need to hang on to whatever rationality you might have left.
Lil' Barry Bailout - Vote American
September 18th, 2012
8:33 pm
In Romney’s dog-eat-dog every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost world, no one cares for anyone else.
———-
Pure garbage, as usual where Mary Elizabeth’s blatherings are concerned.
How much did Romney give to charity last year? You should be ashamed for repeating your friends lies. You exhibit an ignorance typical of non-thinking libtards. Pardon the redundancy.
md
September 18th, 2012
8:35 pm
hd….that’s how I designed my yard……nothing sticking up to get in the way of the mower…..all borders at ground level. Run that mower over the top and never touch that weed whacker again…….
And the house was designed to function, not necessarily look pretty.
And I buy most of my furniture at flea markets/antique stores because the crap they make these days is designed to last no more than a few years……go into the stores nowadays and very little of the furniture is dovetailed……makes me want to cry.
We now live in a disposable society…..by design. Hence the iphone555.
gm
September 18th, 2012
8:36 pm
What states has more people that dont pay taxes, you guess it southern states who voted for MCcain, the man comes out and insult his own party, ha, ha, the sad thing these people live in Georgia.
mike
September 18th, 2012
8:39 pm
For those with enough sense to realize it, the conservatives have shifted so far to the right — even to the far right clown show called the tea party, they have alienated the vast majority of voters.
This is not real complicated. You just can’t win elections with old, rich white guys. THEY ARE A MINORITY.
Not just a minority, but a woeful minority.
You had better get used to it.
JamVet
September 18th, 2012
8:40 pm
It’s worth recalling that a good chunk of the 47 percent who don’t pay income taxes are Romney supporters—especially of course seniors (who might well “believe they are entitled to heath care,” a position Romney agrees with), as well as many lower-income Americans including men and women serving in the military who think conservative policies are better for the country even if they’re not getting a tax cut under the Romney plan.
So Romney seems to have contempt not just for the Democrats who oppose him, but for tens of millions who intend to vote for him. ~ WILLIAM KRISTOL
You neocons have another idiot candidate…
Hillbilly D
September 18th, 2012
8:40 pm
go into the stores nowadays and very little of the furniture is dovetailed
Most of it isn’t even “real” wood. It’s press board with a paper or veneer surface to look like dimension lumber. IKEA type furniture is the spawn of Satan, when it comes to furniture, in my opinion.
Real Athens
September 18th, 2012
8:42 pm
Dittohead @ 8:32
The unemployment rate for 1982 was 9.7%.
Really it isn’t that hard.
Thermodynamics? I’m awaiting your thesis on the Three Laws and the application of the Zeroth Principle.
You slay me.
gm
September 18th, 2012
8:43 pm
Lil’ Barry Bailout – Vote American
You are the typical joke conservative that live in Georgia, backing a person who look at you as poor w—trash because you are not at this level.
Mitt is a disgrace to this country, and the sad thing because fox no news viewers dont research these people think he is talking about minorites, when he is talking about poor southerners who voted rep, wow
mike
September 18th, 2012
8:48 pm
OK, everyone gather around in a circle and shout REAL LOUD! Shout it so those LIBTARDS can hear it!
MITT’S GOING TO WIN! MITT’S GOING TO WIN! MITT’S GOING TO WIN!
Now, tell the truth. You feel better don’t you? DON’T YOU?
md
September 18th, 2012
8:49 pm
” IKEA type furniture is the spawn of Satan, when it comes to furniture, in my opinion.”
Not to mention it’s also mostly retro…..I’ve done my time in the 60’s already thank you very much. It was ugly then and it’s still ugly.
I’ve been in the IKEA store once….that was enough. Craftsmanship is a lost art when it comes to furniture, but since a good bit of it now comes from China, it’s not hard to understand why.
What really happened
September 18th, 2012
8:50 pm
A good source told me the DNC has two more videos (or soundbytes) that they will use as needed. The playbook works like this. When Barrack makes a more serious mistake (i.e. Libya debacle) and the heat begins to build, you release one of these gems. And behold, what is everyone talking about. It is so easy to move the public where you want them to be.
JamVet
September 18th, 2012
8:55 pm
(i.e. Libya debacle)
Is that the one where Mitt blamed our embassy personnel overseas for sympathizing with their attackers?
Linda
September 18th, 2012
8:55 pm
Mary Eliabth@8:08, You are on a conservative blog & we don’t buy into your rhetoric. We know Obama & the Democrats cut $716 B from Medicare to fund Obamacare. We know Obama & the Democrats are taxing wheelchairs, pace makers, stints, etc.to fund Obamacare.
We know that Obama will curb our second amendment rights. That’s why gun & ammo sales are going thru the roof.
We know that ordinary taxpayers cannot continue to fund extraordinary pension & health care benefits for city or state workers, unless they are in Democrat cites & states who will declare bankruptcy as times get tougher.
I’m surprised you are even on here tonight. Usually, we await your comments when Kyle blogs about charter schools, the worst thing that can happen for the progressives’ agenda on dumbing down our children, in a systematic means.
Del
September 18th, 2012
8:56 pm
Ummm, me thinks the libs protest too hard. I smell fear.
JamVet
September 18th, 2012
9:01 pm
Yep, fear that the laughter will become uncontrollable as Mitt’s campaign completely self-destructs.
“Certainly this is a bump in the road.” ~Romney campaign adviser Bay Buchanan
4,000 millionaires in Romney’s ‘47%’
The Tax Policy Center estimates that 4,000 households with incomes over $1 million ended up with zero federal income tax liability in 2011. Another 14,000 made between $500,000 and $1 million.
What a dunderhead.
md
September 18th, 2012
9:01 pm
“Is that the one where Mitt blamed our embassy personnel overseas for sympathizing with their attackers?”
No, that’s the one where they apologized to their attackers for one of their citizens exercising his right to free speech. The same speech that’s practiced over here day in and day out, sometimes even on these blogs.
We won’t last very long as a Nation if we are going to apologize for what we believe in……….
Del
September 18th, 2012
9:01 pm
Linda,
Don’t go too hard on Mary Elizabeth. Yes, she posts epistles that not many fully read, including liberals who only pretend they do but she’s a nice lady albeit misinformed who means well.
gm
September 18th, 2012
9:04 pm
$716 B from Medicare to fund Obamacare, another talking point by low informed fox viewer, the idiot at fox are not telling the American people those seniors are using Obama care and loving it.
Those Seniors drug cost have not increased they have decreased, the right vampires rather give Granny a vocher and fight the insurance company.
Hillbilly D
September 18th, 2012
9:06 pm
Those Seniors drug cost have not increased they have decreased,
That wouldn’t be any of the seniors that I know.
md
September 18th, 2012
9:06 pm
“Those Seniors drug cost have not increased they have decreased, the right vampires rather give Granny a vocher and fight the insurance company.”
Thanks for the chuckle……debate a “talking point” with a “talking point”……..too funny.
Del
September 18th, 2012
9:09 pm
The anti corporate activists and Bolsheviks spew their anti American propaganda but they’re America’s losers and the dregs of our society.
JamVet
September 18th, 2012
9:13 pm
CNN contributor and conservative blogger Erick Erickson tweeted: “Dammit! I’m just now seeing these Romney secret videos. We need that guy on the campaign trail!”
Others, such as New York Times columnist, David Brooks, wrote “Romney’s comment is a country-club fantasy. It’s what self-satisfied millionaires say to each other. It reinforces every negative view people have about Romney.”
And conservative commentator Bill Kristol, a frequent critic of Romney, called the remarks “stupid and arrogant.”
(Would someone tell Del that McCarthyism died a horrific and shameful death sixty years ago? Thank you.)
Del
September 18th, 2012
9:17 pm
Would someone tell JamVet that communism and hippyism died over a generation ago.
Linda
September 18th, 2012
9:17 pm
Real@8:42, So, now I’m a Dittohead? Really?
All you have to do is to compare the unemployment rates when Reagan came in to office with those of his continued administration. All you have to do is to compare the unemployment rates during Bush with those during Obama.
Reagen inherited a much worse economy & unemployment rate & fixed it, pronto.
Obama inherited a bad economy & a lower unemployment rate, promised to fix it, didn’t fix it, said it was worse than he thought, MADE IT WORSE, claims he needs another 4 years to fix it, offers no new ideas to fix it & goes off to fund-raisers in lieu of meeting with his job council.
Del
September 18th, 2012
9:26 pm
Ah, the old hippies from the 60’s you see over on bookman that come here on occasion. Even more pathetic than them is the 70’s, 80’s crowd and even the most pathetic are the far-left kid posters. The left is America’s stuck on stupid demographic.